SPOILER THREAD! Harry Potter Book 7 Discussion with SPOILERS

[Barkeep49]

Ok I think having a new thread makes sense just to prevent someone from misapplying the spoiler tag and to facilitate discussion. Copied over from the prediction thread I have this to say initially

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The ending was a disappointment. I mean Harry does what exactly in life? Not to mention where is a child named after a Weasley? But more importantly, Neville is a professor at Hogwarts and Harry is a....

I feel like she copped out to a large extent with the lack of a major character death. Hell I felt worse about Hedwig dying than any of the humans.

I am glad that I was right about Snape.

I do give her credit since she's a much stronger author than she was in book one. The writing is stronger and the characters more complex. I do not feel like Dumbledoor was a different character so much as we were finally allowed to see the fully measure of the man. Harry had grown up and so his need to make Dumbledoor something larger than any human could be, was no longer necessary.

A satisfying conclusion, I suppose, but still a let down for me.

[Celeval]

I dunno about the major characters as a copout. Hedwig, certainly. Lupin & Tonks hurt, not the least because it was off-camera. Neville becoming Herbology prof didn't surprise me in the least, but I loved his actions in the Battle of Hogwarts. I've been becoming a fan of Neville since Goblet of Fire, and while he and Luna were inching their way up the favorite character list before then; they may be my two favorites now.

The note about the author... completely agreed on the writing, but I'm not sure the characters weren't that complex from the beginning. One thing I've read in a number of places is that she essentially was trying to write the books in such a way that they were aimed towards an audience of similar age than Harry; and a book aimed at 11-12-13 is much different than 16-17.

[GrantDawg]

I think overall it wasn't as much of twist as I expected. I think it ended the way most people expected. The fact Harry had to die, but yet didn't really was the major curve, but it would have been much more shocking if you couldn't tell there was way to much book left when it happens, and you knew the snake still lived. There was just no way Harry could be truly dead until the job was completely done.

I agree with you also that she should have told us what Harry, Ron, Hermonie and Ginny were all doing other than popping out babies. That Nevile was the only one working at Hogwarts was sad. It seemed like Harry at least would want to return to teach, if not Hermonie eventually becoming Head Master.

The middle of the book definitely dragged on, and I just didn't buy Ron just up and leaving. It didn't seem fitting. That stretch was disappointing. I'm not shocked none of the majors died, but I was surprised that the Weasley that died was Fred. That a Weasley would die was a forgone conclusion (too many of them not to have at least one die), but I figured it would be Bill or Charlie. Maybe even Percy to make up for being a prat.

I wish that Snape would have ended up having a bigger twist. What I would have liked to see was that Snape played both sides against the middle. He wanted Harry alive to kill the Dark Lord, so that Snape could actually take his place. Snapes death was almost anti-climatic. Voldemort kills him basically because he was in the way. It seemed sort of a waste.

Over all, a good book. Not the best in the series, but definitely the best action of the series. I can't wait to see the opening action on the big screen, and of course the battle of Hogwarts. I was hoping that we'd get to see Prof. McGonagle open up some whop-ass, and she did. I really do hope the movie will have her comanding the desks to charge. That was a laugh out loud moment.

[GrantDawg]

I dunno about the major characters as a copout. Hedwig, certainly. Lupin & Tonks hurt, not the least because it was off-camera. Neville becoming Herbology prof didn't surprise me in the least, but I loved his actions in the Battle of Hogwarts. I've been becoming a fan of Neville since Goblet of Fire, and while he and Luna were inching their way up the favorite character list before then; they may be my two favorites now.

The note about the author... completely agreed on the writing, but I'm not sure the characters weren't that complex from the beginning. One thing I've read in a number of places is that she essentially was trying to write the books in such a way that they were aimed towards an audience of similar age than Harry; and a book aimed at 11-12-13 is much different than 16-17.

I agree about Luna and Neville. They are just great characters. I can't but think there is a book in just Neville, Luna and Ginny dealing with that last year in Hogwarts.

[Celeval]

I loved the teachers in action. During this whole series, they've (rightfully) taken a backseat to Dumbledore. But we all know they are powerful, and it was great to see McG and the desks... Flitwick... Sprout... even Trelawney having her moment with the crystal balls. It will be a great disappointment to me when whatever is cut for the movie is cut for the movie... because much will have to be.

Ron's leaving was tough, and something I'm going to have to go back over. On one level, there's the feeling of it being out of character somewhat... but on the other hand, he 'left' Harry for the first part of Order of the Phoenix, and his feelings of jealousy around Hermoine were brought out in Half-Blood Prince with the Krum/Lavender thing. So while I don't /want/ to have believed it of him, I'm not sure it wasn't somewhat in character.

[Celeval]

I agree about Luna and Neville. They are just great characters. I can't but think there is a book in just Neville, Luna and Ginny dealing with that last year in Hogwarts.

There could be a book with just Neville, Luna, and Ginny and this year. I would have loved to read the "Director's Cut" of this one. ;)

[Celeval]

FWIW, since it popped into my head now.. the Malfoys ended up much more interesting characters than I would have expected at the beginning of the series (and, for that matter, that the movies have made them look. Narcissa will need to be a very strong actress in movies 6/7).

I am somewhat disappointed that Slughorn seemed to be the only Slytherin-aligned person to stay at Hogwarts, especially given the examples of Snape and Regulus showing that Slytherin's weren't necessarily incapable of the right actions and DD's note about thinking they sorted too soon.

[Buccaneer]

Oh good, now we can discuss this openly.

I don't think J.K. should have leaked that a major character would die since that clouds the reading. Instead of letting the story tell itself, we are distracted by thinking "is it he/she that is the big death?" But no one did. Even though I read this carefully, Hedwig's death was too short and if you blinked, you might have missed. I did miss Lupin and Tonks death and had to go back and find that among all of the confusion at Hogwarts. The only one I did get was Dobby - that was the one J.K. cried about, apparently.

I, too, thought the middle of the book dragged. Going from hideout to hideout in the woods or country kinda got me lost. I also didn't know why Ron had to leave, since it produced no revelations. I thought the backstory on Dumbledore was mostly irrelevant and a waste of time - the movie will certainly ignore all of that.

I sort of knew that things would turn out all right by one clue at the beginning - Dudley's "friendship" gesture with Harry. If he can turn out good, others will turn out good, and I was right. I was surprised about Draco and Narcissa, that was cool. One thing I didn't get was when Harry left the Hall under cloak and saw the three Malfoys sitting alone at the table, who was the third one?

Snape was a no-brainer since "The Prince's Tale" really didn't offer anything new - just more of the same. While I knew he wanted to look into Harry's mother's eyes one last time, I really wished there was one more sentence instead of fading to nothingness. Just like OotP, the movie will probable shortchange his memories at the end.

What else? That Harry was the 7th Horcrux was widely predicted, wasn't it? That he had to die had me saying, 'well, that's no surprise then'. But then they pulled out the "dream sequence" and he really didn't have to die (for some reason I couldn't quite follow).

I thought the title was very good and made sense since I really didn't know what was meant by Deathly Hallows before the book came out. If you think about it, going after the Deathly Hallows was sort of like the Scorcerer's Stone - you can get it by not getting it (or not going after it).

The one true surprise moment for me was the revelation of Snape's petronus - being the doe that led Harry to the sword. After filling in all of the holes, J.K. did the same thing on GoF where we had a character basically re-telling the whole story to tie up all loose ends.

It was said that J.K. wrote the last chapter first. Do I assume that it was the "19 years later" chapter? That was definitely weak and predictable but I guess there is enough there to make sure the whole series made all that possible.

[Barkeep49]

Lots of good stuff there Buc.
Oh good, now we can discuss this openly.

I don't think J.K. should have leaked that a major character would die since that clouds the reading. Instead of letting the story tell itself, we are distracted by thinking "is it he/she that is the big death?" But no one did.

I think this is an excellent point. Here leak was a distraction but worse than that I think it created an expectation that wasn't fulfilled. She would already have very high expectations, considering the series fantastic success, and this leak just raised them more and ultimately led to her being unable to meet the expectation.

Even though I read this carefully, Hedwig's death was too short and if you blinked, you might have missed. I did miss Lupin and Tonks death and had to go back and find that among all of the confusion at Hogwarts.
I also completely had missed Lupin and Tonks death, and didn't bother to go back and find them, though I immediately caught Hedwig's. As I mentioned before Hedwig's death affected me more than any other, so I'm loath to criticize the way she wrote that one.
The only one I did get was Dobby - that was the one J.K. cried about, apparently.
Dobby's death was well done. But my problem was that for the most part Dobby was comedic relief in the book. He partook in many serous and important actions, don't get me wrong, but was also a great source of comedy. The fact that I felt him more a comedic figure than anything lessened the blow of his death for me. If this is the death that she cried writing about, JK was far more attached to him than I would have expected.


I, too, thought the middle of the book dragged. Going from hideout to hideout in the woods or country kinda got me lost.
I waver on this, but agree it was definitely the weakest part of the book. I waver, because it did clearly convey the lack of direction that Harry felt. Without that, the re-found purpose that Harry experiences with Dobby's death would lack impact. I think that arc was an important one and, not being a gifted writer myself, am unsure how else she could have done it. In other words, I think it did feel too long, but am not sure how much shorter it really could have been given the dramatic arc she was going for, and succeeded, I feel, in achieving.
I also didn't know why Ron had to leave, since it produced no revelations. I thought the backstory on Dumbledore was mostly irrelevant and a waste of time - the movie will certainly ignore all of that.
I think you're way off the mark here. While I agree about Ron (needless conflict), I think the DD plot is one of the strongest parts of the book. Here we have a brilliant and wise man and this plot allowed us to see the high cost of his having achieved his wisdom. Not to mention we got to see the uncertainty behind his actions. Plus I enjoyed the mixed emotions Harry felt towards DD through most of the book. The resentment and simultaneous love, even adoration, was just complex, rich, and fulfilling literature, imo. And without this I think the final conversation in King's cross loses some of its impact.
I sort of knew that things would turn out all right by one clue at the beginning - Dudley's "friendship" gesture with Harry. If he can turn out good, others will turn out good, and I was right.
Dudley, to me, was never as evil as a character as Vernon and Petunia and that relationship was never resolved. I thought, however, showing Petunia's jealousy of Lily to be one of the weaker parts of the book.
I was surprised about Draco and Narcissa, that was cool. One thing I didn't get was when Harry left the Hall under cloak and saw the three Malfoys sitting alone at the table, who was the third one?
Lucius, Narcissa, and Draco, I thought? I wasn't surprised about Draco at all. I had been saying all along that DD wanted Snape to kill him to save Draco's soul. The possibility of redemption was an important theme of the series, to me, and this was somewhat predictably shown though Snape and the Malfoy's.
Snape was a no-brainer since "The Prince's Tale" really didn't offer anything new - just more of the same. While I knew he wanted to look into Harry's mother's eyes one last time, I really wished there was one more sentence instead of fading to nothingness. Just like OotP, the movie will probable shortchange his memories at the end.

What else? That Harry was the 7th Horcrux was widely predicted, wasn't it? That he had to die had me saying, 'well, that's no surprise then'. But then they pulled out the "dream sequence" and he really didn't have to die (for some reason I couldn't quite follow).
I had to reread the part where DD explained how that whole thing worked a few times, but was, surprisingly so, just fine with the fact that Harry died and yet didn't. I think it was clear for a long time that Harry would have to die to kill Voldemort, and the information in 6 about the Horcrux's only made this clearer. Yet to have Harry die, as I felt he needed to be, and yet still brought back to life, was marvelous and intriguing. Not to mention, I felt that Harry's talk with DD was perhaps the best written chapter in the whole series. I think it was just a remarkable piece of writing and I hope it was THIS chapter, not that sappy epilogue, that JK had in mind all those years.

]After filling in all of the holes, J.K. did the same thing on GoF where we had a character basically re-telling the whole story to tie up all loose ends.
I think that's a fair criticism, and GoF has always been my least favorite book and that is part of the reason.

It was said that J.K. wrote the last chapter first. Do I assume that it was the "19 years later" chapter? That was definitely weak and predictable but I guess there is enough there to make sure the whole series made all that possible.
I've expressed my frustrations with that epilogue before and again really hope it's the King's Cross conversation JK had in her all those years and not that piece of tripe.

[Buccaneer]

That's make sense, Barkeep, if King's Cross was the first chapter written. If so, that was brilliant since as you said, it was very well written. To have been able to write that chapter at first, a LOT of things had to have been thought out in advance, not mention a very complex set of sub-plots having to come together.

[Celeval]

That's make sense, Barkeep, if King's Cross was the first chapter written. If so, that was brilliant since as you said, it was very well written. To have been able to write that chapter at first, a LOT of things had to have been thought out in advance, not mention a very complex set of sub-plots having to come together.

I would think it might have had to be... she did say at one point recently that a character who was supposed to have died got a reprieve, and if that last chapter didn't change, then it'd be a guessing game who that was. The King's Cross chapter was a good one.

[Barkeep49]

One thing I don't think I understood:
How did Dumbledor beat Grindelwald in the duel when Grindenwald had the Elder Wand?

[terpkristin]

Overall, I enjoyed the book a lot. Hedwig's death was easily the most "shocking" to me, though Fred's was kind of a surprise, too. I mean, I figured that one of the Weasley's would die, but I didn't think it'd be one of the ones we knew so well. Remus dying doesn't surprise me, though Draco living did surprise me. Awhile back, she said that some people she didn't think were going to die ended up dying, and that one she thought would got a reprieve, I still believe it's Draco who got the reprieve.

The fact that Harry had some of Voldemort's soul in him was unexpected to me. I guess I thought it was too cheesy for her to do, and though it fit with the story, and gave him a better "way" to go into the world of death, I never really bought into the "Harry as a horcrux" theory so it kind of caught me off guard.

The other thing that surprised me was that Snape was in it, on the good side, purely because of love. I assumed he'd loved Lily and that was a large part of the reason he was good, but I also thought that he had some more...egotistical (not quite the right word, but it'll do) motives for his actions. I was happily surprised that I was wrong in that regard.

Other than that, the book did pretty much what I thought it would. I mean, things unfolded in a way that jived with what I expected (i.e. I fully expected Harry to have to "visit" the world of the dead somehow), though I'm surprised we didn't get much more information about using spells without verbalizing. I thought that was one of the bigger things Snape was trying to impress upon Harry in HBP, and it didn't really come up in DH. Oh well. ;)

I thought the epilogue was absolute cheese. For me, it was easily the worst part of the book, and kind of a lame way to tie things up.

/tk

[st.cronin]

I haven't read any of the books since I think the second one, but I'm still amazed at the concern about spoilers - to me that just totally deflates any artistic pretensions these books have. In literature, its not what happens, its how it happens.

[Celeval]

I haven't read any of the books since I think the second one, but I'm still amazed at the concern about spoilers - to me that just totally deflates any artistic pretensions these books have. In literature, its not what happens, its how it happens.

It's both, and always will be. A well-written piece of crap story is still a piece of crap story. What happens and how it happens are intrinsically tied... knowing what will happen certainly adds to the experience in later readings, but if you know what's coming, it puts an entirely different spin on a reading.

[ISiddiqui]

I just finished!

I thought it was a really good book and really good finale. Among the books, I list it par with HBP, but just a smidgen behind PoA (which I consider the best book in series). The beginning of the book, after the wedding, was slow. Perhaps that was just a way of showing the reading how the 3 felt, sitting around, not knowing what to do next.

But after Ron rejoins the group, and they destroy the locket, the story REALLY picks up. A great dash to the end. Great touch to have Neville pick up the mantle as troublemaker and get the sword to cut off Nagini's head. And Snape's backstory revealed was wonderful (even though I knew he'd be on the side of good in the end).

I guess those who said Harry was a horcrux and had to die were right ;). But I never thought that he could come back to life... that was an interesting surprise.

For all the bitching about the epilogue, I thought it was ok. Sure you could have guessed what happened, but that's not what Rowling wanted to do. It wanted to show that the main characters were ok and had lots of babies. If you want to know about the minor characters, I'm sure Rowling can get you to buy a HP encyclopedia some time in the future ;).

The Dealthly Hallows turned out to something completely unexpected, but very well done.

And I LOVE how throw away lines in the earlier books come back as huge plot points (the Gaunt bloodlines, etc)!

Farewell, Harry! We'll miss ya!

[Barkeep49]

ISiddiqui: The biggest problem I had with the epilogue was we learned little about the man Harry became other than the fact that he had kids.

[ISiddiqui]

ISiddiqui: The biggest problem I had with the epilogue was we learned little about the man Harry became other than the fact that he had kids.

And I don't think Rowling really was interested in revealing anything else. Basically it seemed the Epilogue was there to show that Harry, Ron, and Hermione had basically a quiet 19 years, where they were allowed to be normal wizards and have kids (though I LOVED that his 2nd son was called "Albus Severus Potter").

[Izulde]

Harry's death and ressurection is something I knew was going to happen. Too obvious there in my opinion.

On the other hand, the scene was quite well done and provided a real sense of the DD subplot which had been driving me crazy all book wondering what the truth of the matter was.

I thought Bagshot turning into the snake was a very nice touch.

I absolutely despised the epilogue. Why even bother writing it if you're just going to mail it in? Give us some sense of -real- accomplishment and progress rather than something out of The Sims. It was, in my opinion, the most horribly written part of the entire book and a real letdown conclusion to the entire series.

Neville is probably the best character in the series in terms of development and growth, except for maybe Harry. The others stayed static, with only relatively small arcs.

Hedwig and Mad-eye's deaths both stung, particularly Mad-eye's. Dobby's death was sad, too. Fred, Lupin, and Tonks's deaths didn't affect me, though I thought it interesting that she chose to perpetuate the whole... reckless godfather, parentless godchild thing further down the line.

I liked the fact that Ron went away and I saw no character difficulties with it. Ron's always had a jealousy streak in him, a dark side that comes from being second-best and I imagine it's particularly prevalent given that his older brothers all achieved success in their own way, whereas Ron was just somebody who was there, by and large.... and that feeling of wanting to be somebody, but constantly crowded out by accomplished friends and siblings would naturally arise the jealousy instinct.

Remember in the Mirror? Ron saw himself as accomplishing all these great things... his truest desire... Greatness, which as I said, only makes sense given the above. Furthermore, Hermoine was the one thing that Ron had that Harry didn't and when Ron feared losing Hermoine, well that would be losing the one thing that Ron had that made him special and unique.

Overall, except for that awful "epilogue", I thought it was an extremely well-written finale to the series.

[Buccaneer]

I liked that they brought in numerous references from each of the previous books. It's an obvious way of tying up loose ends but it worked in that everything that had gone on before now made sense, generally speaking. There were a few abandoned plot lines but that's to be expected. It does, however, seem like the only point of S.P.E.W. was to get Ron and Hermoine to do a full lip lock. Lol.

[ISiddiqui]

I liked that they brought in numerous references from each of the previous books. It's an obvious way of tying up loose ends but it worked in that everything that had gone on before now made sense, generally speaking. There were a few abandoned plot lines but that's to be expected. It does, however, seem like the only point of S.P.E.W. was to get Ron and Hermoine to do a full lip lock. Lol.

And a lot of throwaway lines in previous books become very, very imporant. Such as Marvolo Gaunt saying this ring shows I'm decended from the Peverell's and things like that (btw, I did go back to HBP and verify that Marvolo actually DID say that).

[Buccaneer]

It's too bad that it will be 3, likely 4, years before we'll see this movie.

I probably blinked but did anyone read where they destroyed the cup and the diadem, or was it assumed?

When I have more time, I'm going to go back to what I pasted in the other thread and see if they answered all of the questions and the predictions came out.

[Shkspr]

It's too bad that it will be 3, likely 4, years before we'll see this movie.

I probably blinked but did anyone read where they destroyed the cup and the diadem, or was it assumed?

When I have more time, I'm going to go back to what I pasted in the other thread and see if they answered all of the questions and the predictions came out.

The cup was destroyed by one of the basilisk fangs Ron and Hermione gathered from the Chamber. The diadem was burned up by fiendfyre cast by Crabbe in the Room of Requirement battle, which is cursed fire so dangerous that our heroes would never have dared use it on Horcruxes.

[Barkeep49]

The cup was destroyed by one of the basilisk fangs Ron and Hermione gathered from the Chamber. The diadem was burned up by fiendfyre cast by Crabbe in the Room of Requirement battle, which is cursed fire so dangerous that our heroes would never have dared use it on Horcruxes.
That cursed fire thing was weaker, in that it seemed too convenient.

[Celeval]

The diadem was burned up by fiendfyre cast by Crabbe in the Room of Requirement battle, which is cursed fire so dangerous that our heroes would never have dared use it on Horcruxes.

That, and they didn't know how (Crabbe cast it).

[Celeval]

That cursed fire thing was weaker, in that it seemed too convenient.

Sortof. But they did have the basilisk fangs, right? I mean, if the fiendfyre didn't burn it, they would have destroyed it with the basilisk fangs a few minutes later... yes?

FWIW, this resulted in no one person destroying more than one Horcrux.

Diary: Harry
Ring: Dumbledore
Locket: Ron
Cup: Hermione
Diadem: Crabbe
Harry: Voldemort
Nagini: Neville

[Buccaneer]

Sortof. But they did have the basilisk fangs, right? I mean, if the fiendfyre didn't burn it, they would have destroyed it with the basilisk fangs a few minutes later... yes?

FWIW, this resulted in no one person destroying more than one Horcrux.

Diary: Harry
Ring: Dumbledore
Locket: Ron
Cup: Hermione
Diadem: Crabbe
Harry: Voldemort
Nagini: Neville

That is interesting. I remember the diadem and fire now but while I knew they got the fang, I don't recall the actual use of it on the cup since I was expecting a similar thing as with the locket. No matter.

[ISiddiqui]

FWIW, this resulted in no one person destroying more than one Horcrux.

Diary: Harry
Ring: Dumbledore
Locket: Ron
Cup: Hermione
Diadem: Crabbe
Harry: Voldemort
Nagini: Neville

Very interesting. Also goes to Rowling's point (it seems to me) that you need your friends to help you and going it alone hardly ever works.

And Bucc, the reason you probably don't remember it is because they did it outside of Harry's view. They destroyed the cup once they got a basilisk fang, down in the CoS, IIRC. And then showed Harry the broken cup.

[Celeval]

That is interesting. I remember the diadem and fire now but while I knew they got the fang, I don't recall the actual use of it on the cup since I was expecting a similar thing as with the locket. No matter.

It was off-camera. Hermione and Ron went to the Chamber, got the basilisk fangs and stabbed the cup while Harry was in the Great Hall and then talking to the Grey Lady. By the time they meet back up, the cup is already gone. Ron says he let Hermione do it as she hadn't had the pleasure yet (or wtte).

[Crapshoot]

And I don't think Rowling really was interested in revealing anything else. Basically it seemed the Epilogue was there to show that Harry, Ron, and Hermione had basically a quiet 19 years, where they were allowed to be normal wizards and have kids (though I LOVED that his 2nd son was called "Albus Severus Potter").

Bingo - I think that was very much on purpose. I thought the epilogue was weak, as well - but there's a reason we don't find out about Harry. I do believe he should have been the next headmaster at Hogwarts, FWIW.

[Barkeep49]

One thing I don't think I understood:
How did Dumbledor beat Grindelwald in the duel when Grindenwald had the Elder Wand?
Anyone have an answer for this?

[ISiddiqui]

Bingo - I think that was very much on purpose. I thought the epilogue was weak, as well - but there's a reason we don't find out about Harry. I do believe he should have been the next headmaster at Hogwarts, FWIW.

I doubt Harry takes any position of power though, after what happened in the books. I'm imagining him as working for some Ministry of Magic branch, maybe Muggle relations or something.

Anyone have an answer for this?

No... I think Rowling has to be asked. He may have beat the Elder Wand by not directly engaging Grindelwald in a duel, but by other magic (using their surroundings to pummle Grindelwald or something, or distract him until he could cast "Expelliarmus").

[Solecismic]

Anyone have an answer for this?

It's a bug. Please wait for HP7.0a.

[Celeval]

I doubt Harry takes any position of power though, after what happened in the books. I'm imagining him as working for some Ministry of Magic branch, maybe Muggle relations or something.

Given the state of his vault at Gringotts, and the fact that he saved the Wizarding world from everything; I imagine he didn't necessarily need to work.

That said, we never found out about what Lily and James did to begin with.

No... I think Rowling has to be asked. He may have beat the Elder Wand by not directly engaging Grindelwald in a duel, but by other magic (using their surroundings to pummle Grindelwald or something, or distract him until he could cast "Expelliarmus").

Granted, it's Rita Skeeter... but some of what she says is accurate, so it would be interesting to know what she would say in the book; given that she implies Grindelwald would have just thrown up his hands and given up rather than really dueling. We know (reasonably for certain) that there was a duel and a spectacular one; but it may not have ended necessarily with the forcible taking (as opposed to giving up) of the wand.

[ISiddiqui]

Given the state of his vault at Gringotts, and the fact that he saved the Wizarding world from everything; I imagine he didn't necessarily need to work.

That said, we never found out about what Lily and James did to begin with.

Of course Harry didn't have to work, but he may want to :D. Just to feel a part of the wizarding world. May have gotten bored just sitting at home.

[Celeval]

Of course Harry didn't have to work, but he may want to :D. Just to feel a part of the wizarding world. May have gotten bored just sitting at home.

True. :) Which, post-DA, would make me think he would have been involved teaching to some extent. Or, perhaps, Harry as a stay-at-home dad while Ginny went and did stuff. I can't necessarily see him leaving family alone, and he has some right from the start (Teddy).

[Buccaneer]

So when was Harry and Ginny married and what were the ages of their kids?

Teddy was the son of Lupin and Tonks, wasn't he? Who was he raised by?

Tonks was hot, very hot. :)

[Celeval]

19 years later, H&G's second kid is entering. First kid I don't think is specifically stated, but probably second year... which would make him 13 now, so they started having kids 6 years from the end of the book. 12 y/o boy (James), 11 y/o boy (Albus), 9 y/o girl (Lily). Unstated who raised Teddy, although Harry was the godfather... I'd guess at the Weasley's, though; or Tonks' parents.

Edit: Fixed ages, as ISiddiqui got it right - enter Hogwarts at 11, not 12.

[ISiddiqui]

So when was Harry and Ginny married and what were the ages of their kids?

19 years after Voldy's death (so, Harry, Ron, and Hermione were 36), Albus Severus was going for the first time (he's 11 then). Lily is 2 years from (so 9). James is undetermined, but I'm guessing 13 (2 years between each seems ok).

[Eaglesfan27]

I just finished the book. I thought the middle did drag a bit, but I thought it did a nice job of giving a sense of the lack of direction that Harry was feeling as well as building up the tension of increasing odds against him. I enjoyed the entire book, although Hedwig's death was the one that hit me the hardest. As I was reading this book, I really thought that Snape was evil, even though I had read all of the clues from the previous books and was convinced he was good before I started reading booking 7. The only thing I'm disappointed with was the Epilogue. I wanted much more information there.

[Neon_Chaos]

The great thing about Snape is that deep down inside, he probably IS evil. But his love for Lily overcame all that. And although he really didn't care about most of the people who were dying all around him, he just wanted to see Potter vanquish Voldemort, perhaps as revenge for Voldemort's refusal of his plea to save Lily. He really only trusted one man, Dumbledore... and he felt the need to protect Harry because of Lily, but of course he didn't have to like Harry (because he looked so much like James).

[Katon]

The great thing about Snape is that deep down inside, he probably IS evil. But his love for Lily overcame all that. And although he really didn't care about most of the people who were dying all around him

When Dumbledore is telling Snape that Harry will have to die, he asks Snape how many men and women he's watched die. Snape's answer is "Lately, only those whom I could not save". His main motive may still be Lily, but he has changed a lot from his earlier (evil) days. For another example, the Snape who joined the Death Eaters would never have told Phineas Nigellus' portrait not to call Hermione a mudblood when he was preparing to help them find the sword. Snape is not a nice or pleasant person, even if he is on the protagonists' side, and that's a refreshing development. But he's not evil by the end, and he demonstrably does care about the dying going on around him.

[Neon_Chaos]

When Dumbledore is telling Snape that Harry will have to die, he asks Snape how many men and women he's watched die. Snape's answer is "Lately, only those whom I could not save". His main motive may still be Lily, but he has changed a lot from his earlier (evil) days.

That is a good point. And I just noticed the passage where Dumbledore told Snape in light of his courage that perhaps they Sorted too early. A hint that Snape could or should have been in Griffindor? His entire outlook on life changed when Voldemort did not grant him his one plea.

For another example, the Snape who joined the Death Eaters would never have told Phineas Nigellus' portrait not to call Hermione a mudblood when he was preparing to help them find the sword.

I think Snape's reaction was due to his bad memories from the word mudblood and the situation it put him in with Lily, not as much by how he felt about Granger.

Snape is not a nice or pleasant person, even if he is on the protagonists' side, and that's a refreshing development. But he's not evil by the end, and he demonstrably does care about the dying going on around him.

This is true. But I still think that his one and only motivation has been Lily. Sure, he will try and save people from dying, but not at the risk of endangering the task assigned to him by Dumbledore. Which, I think, in the end, made him the best character in the series. His ability to "not care" about anyone else other than Potter as long as it didn't bother the master plan was crucial to him being able to fulfill Dumbledore's missions.

[Neon_Chaos]

Given the state of his vault at Gringotts, and the fact that he saved the Wizarding world from everything; I imagine he didn't necessarily need to work.

That said, we never found out about what Lily and James did to begin with.

From what I remember, James was already rich, also inheriting a ridiculous sum of money (which, I assume, was passed on to Harry).

[Celeval]

That is a good point. And I just noticed the passage where Dumbledore told Snape in light of his courage that perhaps they Sorted too early. A hint that Snape could or should have been in Griffindor? His entire outlook on life changed when Voldemort did not grant him his one plea

Maybe, maybe not. The Sorting Hat's generalization of Slytherin was always the means justify the ends. Perhaps the ends of keeping a part of Lily Potter alive was always worth the means of betraying Voldemort, etc.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, add me to the group that thinks Snape went into a transformation. Not unlike Regulus Black in that respect. He saw the dark side for what it was when Voldemort wouldn't even grant him his one request. After that, he realized what he had done... he wasn't nice, but he knew what side he was on after that. And it wasn't just his love for Lily, but that was the catalyst.

[Eaglesfan27]

Did anyone else think that Ginny had some sort of prescience. Ron said that she was wrong about the scar on Harry's chest towards the beginning of the book when he transformed into Harry, but by the end of the book Harry had a scar on his chest.

Also, I thought Ron leaving in a fit of anger for a second wasn't far fetched at all. He had repeatedly shown his jealousy over Hermoine throughout the books and the locket magnified all of his negative emotions. What I thought was wierd at the time was him not returning, but that was well explained once he finally was able to return.

[RedKingGold]

It's a bug. Please wait for HP7.0a.

Welcome to Hogwarts.

[Celeval]

Did anyone else think that Ginny had some sort of prescience. Ron said that she was wrong about the scar on Harry's chest towards the beginning of the book when he transformed into Harry, but by the end of the book Harry had a scar on his chest.

I think Ron said he knew Ginny was lying about the tattoo... I think it was a reference to the end of Book 6, when Romilda Vane is bugging Ginny about if it's true that Harry has a hippogriff tatooed on his chest, and Ginny replies wtte of "I told her it's a Hungarian Horntail. Much more macho."

[saldana]

So when was Harry and Ginny married and what were the ages of their kids?

Teddy was the son of Lupin and Tonks, wasn't he? Who was he raised by?

Tonks was hot, very hot. :)

i would assume that teddy was raised by Tonk's mother...she should have been fine through the whole thing, seeing as she was related to belatrix and narcissa

i thought the book was great...it did lag a little in the middle when all they were doing was camping and putting up charms over and over again, but the first 100 pages and the last 200 were spectacular.

i can see peoples point of view about the epilogue, i wasnt a really big fan either, but i think the best line of the whole series may have been when he called his son Albus Severus and explained the derivation.

personally, i thought it was much worse that Molly showed up and in less than 2 minutes beat Bellatrix...obviously it was rage over fred, or was it george? :), but the fact that lupin, sirius, kingsley, and mad eye all had been beaten by her in the past made the whole Molly thing a bit to corny for me...if she was that good at dueling, where the hell had she been for the last 3 books.

[rkmsuf]

they showed some assmuncher reading this thing at the British Open yesterday

[ISiddiqui]

It was rage over Fred and Ginny actually. Shows that you don't mess with Weasley when family is on the line ;). Also she beat Bellatrix because Bellatrix was busy taunting her rather than focusing (like Sirius in OotP).

[Katon]

The taunting definitely helps. Also, it might seem like Molly must be nothing special as a witch because she spent the first six books mothering the Weasley mob without doing any major magic, but if memory serves she was an original member of the Order of the Phoenix. She's probably pretty good at combat magic - definitely good enough to beat an opponent who isn't taking her seriously.

[gkb]

I just finished the book last night. I thought overall it was well done and enjoyed it...after finishing it I thought of the ending of "Titanic" with the curtain call...it felt a bit like that with everyone making an appearance at some point or another. She did an amazing job writing 7 excellent books and tying things up in the end.

Of all the deaths I think the ones that affected me the most were Hedwig's and Dobby's. I really wish the epilogue had gone into more detail about what everyone had been up to in those 19 years (other than having kids). I'm a bit saddened that I (probably) won't be reading any more about Harry.

I probably missed this in the book, but the part where Harry is dead and talking to DD...who was the baby that was crying in that scene and what was the significance?

[Crapshoot]

I

I probably missed this in the book, but the part where Harry is dead and talking to DD...who was the baby that was crying in that scene and what was the significance?

Voldy. Notice the seen afterwords, where he tells Voldermort to show remorse - he knows what will happen otherwise.

[saldana]

I just finished the book last night. I thought overall it was well done and enjoyed it...after finishing it I thought of the ending of "Titanic" with the curtain call...it felt a bit like that with everyone making an appearance at some point or another. She did an amazing job writing 7 excellent books and tying things up in the end.

Of all the deaths I think the ones that affected me the most were Hedwig's and Dobby's. I really wish the epilogue had gone into more detail about what everyone had been up to in those 19 years (other than having kids). I'm a bit saddened that I (probably) won't be reading any more about Harry.

I probably missed this in the book, but the part where Harry is dead and talking to DD...who was the baby that was crying in that scene and what was the significance?


it was the 1/7th of voldemort that had died at the same time as harry had

[ISiddiqui]

1/8th, actually, at that time. Voldy didn't realize that when the AK spell backfired his unstable soul created another horcrux (making 7 horcruxs + Voldy himself).

[Buccaneer]

I was going to ask that exact question. I figured that would have been the answer but shouldn't the baby have been dead instead of crying?

[Eaglesfan27]

I was going to ask that exact question. I figured that would have been the answer but shouldn't the baby have been dead instead of crying?

No, because like Harry, it was hanging onto life thanks to Nagini.

[saldana]

one thing i would like to know is how the sword ended up back inside the sorting hat after griphook made off with it from gringotts.

[ISiddiqui]

one thing i would like to know is how the sword ended up back inside the sorting hat after griphook made off with it from gringotts.

I think the hat can grab the sword from anywhere if a true Gryffindor is in mortal danger.

[ISiddiqui]

No, because like Harry, it was hanging onto life thanks to Nagini.

And Voldy... don't forget him... the final piece :D.

[Crapshoot]

FYI, The discussion at Slate is interesting - start at entry 6, where the spoilers start. I find the point about the epilogue interesting, and somewhat convincing (even if I think not mentioning what they do is a calculated decision).

http://www.slate.com/id/2170647/entry/2170724/nav/tap3/

[Buccaneer]

I think he hit on why the middle dragged - lack of the school structure and events. He's also right about the craziness of the Horcruxes and how Voldemort/Harry connections where fuzzy. I still don't have a good handle on those.

[saldana]

FYI, The discussion at Slate is interesting - start at entry 6, where the spoilers start. I find the point about the epilogue interesting, and somewhat convincing (even if I think not mentioning what they do is a calculated decision).

http://www.slate.com/id/2170647/entry/2170724/nav/tap3/

thanks for the link...cool reading

[Crapshoot]

I must say, amongst things I like, was finding out about Dumbledore as a human being. I can't imagine what he could ever have been 17, but the book did a good job of putting you there. The wisdom he has accumulated is hard-earned, and you can tell.

[Eaglesfan27]

Agreed, I really enjoyed the exploration of Dumbledore's past.

[Buccaneer]

One other thing I thought about earlier today was going back to the discussion on the last chapter. It was brought up that King's Cross was the first chapter she wrote but look where it is, second or third from the last? I guess it's no surprise that the Epilogue was the first she wrote because it read like a beginning writer, which she was at the time.

[mauchow]

This movie is going to be SOOOO good. Like others have mentioned, the beginning is going to be interesting to SEE. Breaking into Gringotts, and a whoooole lotta other stuff.

[Barkeep49]

This movie is going to be SOOOO good. Like others have mentioned, the beginning is going to be interesting to SEE. Breaking into Gringotts, and a whoooole lotta other stuff.
I think there will be parts of the movie I really like, as I ADORE heist movies and there are two great heist sequences in this book, but I wonder about it at the same time because of the narrative interruptions in the final battle sequence. I think I will find them far more annoying as a viewer than as a reader.

[mauchow]

Exactly. A lot of reading out of magazines and books that are obviously going to have to be a part of a conversation(OMG DID YOU READ THAT!? I know!)

But overall, I think it should be the best of the series when all said and done. Hopefully Radcliffe can pull off Harry in the end.

[BrianD]

I guess I'm not getting all of the disappointment over the epilogue. Throughout the whole series, Harry wants to be normal. He doesn't want people to fuss over him, and he often comments that his heroic action is often luck or having the right people around. His greatest desire is to be a normal wizard, and that is exactly what we get at the end. Sure the epilogue is cheesy, and everybody probably has jobs that are more advanced than we see, but Harry gets his wish. Whatever else is going on...he is normal.

[Celeval]

My disappointment (not major) with the epilogue is that it reads more like a piece of fanfiction. I don't have a problem with the content (although, like some have said, I'd like to know what Luna is up to, whether Neville is also head of Gryffindor House), etc.

[Eaglesfan27]

I guess I'm not getting all of the disappointment over the epilogue. Throughout the whole series, Harry wants to be normal. He doesn't want people to fuss over him, and he often comments that his heroic action is often luck or having the right people around. His greatest desire is to be a normal wizard, and that is exactly what we get at the end. Sure the epilogue is cheesy, and everybody probably has jobs that are more advanced than we see, but Harry gets his wish. Whatever else is going on...he is normal.

I'm fine with that part of it. I thought the same thing, Harry finally has his wish to be normal. I just wish she told us what happened to other characters and more of what Ron and Hermoine were doing (besides raising kids.)

[BrianD]

I'm fine with that part of it. I thought the same thing, Harry finally has his wish to be normal. I just wish she told us what happened to other characters and more of what Ron and Hermoine were doing (besides raising kids.)

As a reader, I would also like to know what everyone else is up to. But with as much as we've seen about Harry and other major characters, we really haven't been given THAT much info on the minor characters. We've had glimpses of Neville and Luna, but our insight isn't really any deeper than Harry's. Getting a full look at these characters would have given us a different view of them than we've ever had in the series.

But again, as a reader, it would be nice to know what happened. Maybe JKR should have gone the JRRT route and given us 12 appendicies to wrap up ALL of the loose ends.

[saldana]

so something occured to me last night...in OOTP, when harry and sirius are looking at the Black family tree and harry sees that sirius is related to the malfoys, Sirius comments that most of the pure blood families are related if you go back far enough...in fact he is even related to molly weasley at some point...this triggered a realization

harry and voledmort are cousins

extremely distant cousins, but cousins nonetheless...it would be impossible to derive the actual label for thier distance (3rd cousin 18th time removed or whatever), but if you go far enough back into their family trees, both of them started at one of the peverell brothers.

which leads to the even greater question, was Salazar Slytherin before or after the Peverell brothers? if he were after, and was also a descendent of a Peverell, then it doesnt matter, but if the Peverell brothers were descendents of Slythering, then Harry IS actually the Heir of Slytherin.

[Crapshoot]

so something occured to me last night...in OOTP, when harry and sirius are looking at the Black family tree and harry sees that sirius is related to the malfoys, Sirius comments that most of the pure blood families are related if you go back far enough...in fact he is even related to molly weasley at some point...this triggered a realization

harry and voledmort are cousins

extremely distant cousins, but cousins nonetheless...it would be impossible to derive the actual label for thier distance (3rd cousin 18th time removed or whatever), but if you go far enough back into their family trees, both of them started at one of the peverell brothers.

which leads to the even greater question, was Salazar Slytherin before or after the Peverell brothers? if he were after, and was also a descendent of a Peverell, then it doesnt matter, but if the Peverell brothers were descendents of Slythering, then Harry IS actually the Heir of Slytherin.

I did note that and found it interesting. IMO, Slytherin came after the Peverell's, but I admit I'm not sure exactly why. Then again, the fact that the name persisted (Marvalo did have Peverell as a middle name) would suggest that perhaps the Peverell's came after. Interesting part.

[Barkeep49]

I believe we learn that the founding of Hogwarts by the four are after the Peverell's because I thought one of the founding four had an item of the Peverell's.

[Crapshoot]

I believe we learn that the founding of Hogwarts by the four are after the Peverell's because I thought one of the founding four had an item of the Peverell's.

Slytherin's ring, you mean?

[spleen1015]

Slytherin's ring, you mean?

Yeah. The ring contained the Resurrection Stone. So, the founders had to be after the Bros.!

[Barkeep49]

Yeah. The ring contained the Resurrection Stone. So, the founders had to be after the Bros.!
Thanks for putting together the actual words the justified my statement :).

[Celeval]

Yeah. The ring contained the Resurrection Stone. So, the founders had to be after the Bros.!

The ring was Peverell's, not Slytherin's. The locket was Slytherin's.

[spleen1015]

The ring was Peverell's, not Slytherin's. The locket was Slytherin's.

I think the locket was Hufflepuff's.

The ring is definitely Slytherin's because Voldemort's family had it and they were descendants of Slytherin.

[Katon]

I think the locket was Hufflepuff's.

The ring is definitely Slytherin's because Voldemort's family had it and they were descendants of Slytherin.

Well, yes, but they're also presumably descended from some other people as well. Slytherin's wife, for instance. Is there any evidence that the ring came into their family with Slytherin as opposed to some other ancestor?

[spleen1015]

Well, yes, but they're also presumably descended from some other people as well. Slytherin's wife, for instance. Is there any evidence that the ring came into their family with Slytherin as opposed to some other ancestor?

No, but it was always called Slytherin's ring. Then it was revealed that the Resurrection Stone was the stone in the ring.

So, the rest is unknown.

[Katon]

And this is where I suffer from not having my copy of HBP with me. If the Gaunts call it Slytherin's ring, then that would definitely suggest the stone existed pre-Slytherin.

[Celeval]

I think the locket was Hufflepuff's.

The ring is definitely Slytherin's because Voldemort's family had it and they were descendants of Slytherin.

The cup was Hufflepuffs.

From Half-Blood Prince (Chapter Ten, The House of Gaunt)

"That's right!" roared Gaunt. For a moment, Harry thought Gaunt as making an obscene hand gesture, but then realized that he was showing Ogden the ugly, black-stoned ring he was wearing on his middle finger, waving it before Ogden's eyes. "See this? See this? Know what it is? Know where it came from? Centuries it's been in our family, that's how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I've been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone?"

...

With a howl of rage, Gaunt ran towards his daughter. For a split second, Harry thought he was going to throttle her as his hand flew to her throat; next moment, he was dragging her toward Ogden by a gold chain around her neck.

"See this?" he bellowed at Ogden, shaking a heavy gold locket at him, while Merope spluttered and gasped for breath.

"I see it, I see it!" said Ogden hastily.

"Slytherin's!" yelled Gaunt. "Salazar Slytherin's! We're his last living descendants, what do you say to that, eh?"




Then from Chapter Seventeen, A Sluggish Memory:

Morgin pushes the hair out of his dirty face, the better to see Riddle, and Harry saw that he wore Marvolo's black-stoned ring on his right hand.

"I thought you was that Muggle," whispered Morfin. "You look mighty like that Muggle."

...

"Ar, he left her, and serve her right, marrying filth!" said Morfin, spitting on the floor again. "Robbed us, mind, before she ran off! Where's the locket, eh, where's Slytherin's locket?"

[Celeval]

No, but it was always called Slytherin's ring. Then it was revealed that the Resurrection Stone was the stone in the ring.

So, the rest is unknown.

The above stuff quoted to note that it was Slytherin's locket, not Slytherin's ring. The ring is never mentioned as belonging to Slytherin, and is referred to as the black-stoned ring, or Marvolo's ring, or some such.

[Crapshoot]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19935372/\

I assume she will write the encyclopedia sooner or later, so that's nice. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

Cool. I hope it isn't too many years into the future.

[Celeval]

Looking forward to the encyclopedia myself.

[spleen1015]

The above stuff quoted to note that it was Slytherin's locket, not Slytherin's ring. The ring is never mentioned as belonging to Slytherin, and is referred to as the black-stoned ring, or Marvolo's ring, or some such.

I stand corrected.

[Crapshoot]

Also, I went back to Rowling's site - way back when, she had explicitly said that Harry was not the "Heir of Slytherin". I too stand corrected, and I believe Celeval may be right.

[Buccaneer]

Looks like it was Arthur Weasley that got the reprieve from death.

[Barkeep49]

Bit of a let down frankly about who got spared. Much like all of the death lately. I mean I couldn't believe she had the gumption to off Sirius and then DD but it seems like that's the best she had in her.

[ISiddiqui]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19935372/\ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19935372/%5C)

I assume she will write the encyclopedia sooner or later, so that's nice. :D

Yay! And also a reason not to get too much into what everyone else was up to at the end of the 7th book. Cut into the encyclopedia profits ;).

[Celeval]

Looks like it was Arthur Weasley that got the reprieve from death.

I was happy to read that - I would have been disappointed to hear that she had planned to kill off one of the majors and decided not to after all this time. It being Mr. Weasley means a bit less, I think.

[path12]

I guess I'm not getting all of the disappointment over the epilogue. Throughout the whole series, Harry wants to be normal. He doesn't want people to fuss over him, and he often comments that his heroic action is often luck or having the right people around. His greatest desire is to be a normal wizard, and that is exactly what we get at the end. Sure the epilogue is cheesy, and everybody probably has jobs that are more advanced than we see, but Harry gets his wish. Whatever else is going on...he is normal.

I'm just glad all those crazy kids got together.

[path12]

I was really touched at the description of Luna's room. Very sweet.

[Logan]

Finished last night...agree about the epilogue, although I'm thinking that may have been put there to please the younger fanbase who may have wanted a true happy ending.

Anyway, can someone clear this up...during the Harry/Voldemort standoff, when Harry revealed that Dumbledore basically killed himself so he never "lost" the Elder Wand...Harry said that the true owner of the wand was Draco. I completely missed the point with that...how did that come about? Am I even recalling it correctly?

[BrianD]

Finished last night...agree about the epilogue, although I'm thinking that may have been put there to please the younger fanbase who may have wanted a true happy ending.

Anyway, can someone clear this up...during the Harry/Voldemort standoff, when Harry revealed that Dumbledore basically killed himself so he never "lost" the Elder Wand...Harry said that the true owner of the wand was Draco. I completely missed the point with that...how did that come about? Am I even recalling it correctly?

I had the same questions about Draco. My wife thinks she remembers Draco disarming Dumbledore shortly before Snape kills him. I seem to remember Dumbledore not having a wand and the end, so I guess that would make sense.

[ISiddiqui]

Dumbledore used Petrificus Totalus (silently) on Harry right as the door was slammed open, to prevent the DEs from finding Harry up on the tower as well (he was covered by the Invisibility Cloak). Draco then used Expelliarmus on Dumbledore to rid him of his wand, but, of course, couldn't finish the job.

[Celeval]

Yep... Draco disarmed Dumbledore, who (Harry thought) wasted his time to defend himself by Petrificus Totalis one Harry. DD's wand went over the edge of the tower. He then didn't have a wand when Snape arrived.

[rkmsuf]

Is it wrong that the first thought that popped into my head was to tell emily to fuck off?

Ok, maybe she's 13 but still...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Teen's pins ward off Harry Potter spoilers
DOWNERS GROVE | 200 pairs of buttons sell fast

July 25, 2007
BY LAUREN SUTHERLAND Naperville Sun
In Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Harry's nemesis Draco Malfoy charms buttons to say "Potter Stinks," to demoralize Harry before the Tri-Wizard tournament.

Emily Temple-Wood thinks just the opposite. When she decided to make Potter pins of her own, the 13-year-old from Downers Grove had in mind the thousands of fans who had been awaiting Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows as eagerly as she had.

People have been spotted with the pins that say either: "I'm not finished, no spoilers please!" or "I'm finished, let's discuss."




Emily Temple-Wood, 13, of Downers Grove made buttons to sell at the release of the final Harry Potter party in downtown Naperville last week.
(Jonathan Miano/STNG)
Emily and her family made and sold 200 pairs of the pins for $1 last week through Anderson's Bookshop in Downers Grove.
Emily designed the buttons with her grandfather on his computer. The pins went on sale the week before the book's release. Before Friday, the store had sold about 30 of the pins. On Friday, all 200 were sold by 10:30 p.m.

Sun-Times

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/books/482458,CST-NWS-potter25.article

[BrianD]

I think that was a pretty clever idea. With so many people wanting to read the book and so many people wanting to talk about it, it isn't a terrible idea to identify themselves. Nice entrepreneurial spirit and a nice way to help people stay spoiler-free.

[Logan]

Thanks for the Draco explanation. My HP-addicted friend confirmed the same.

[Scoobz0202]

I just finished the book about five minutes ago. The end of "The Princes Tales" and "The Forest Again" is the highlight of J.K.'s entire series. Imo, "The Forest Again" is by far the greatest chapter of the entire series. That chapter truly hit me emotionaly.

I also felt the last 200 pages as a whole were amazing. The excitement of the Battle of Hogwarts was awesome.. absolutely awesome.

[Scoobz0202]

dola,

Throughout the book I also felt there were quite a few very powerful scenes. There were quite a few times where I was touched.

1. Like I said earlier, the whole chapter with Harry realizing he is going to die was very powerful. Especially were he is walking across the grounds, and then is "reunited" with his family. Seeing the trio (Sirius, Lupin, and James) reuinited.

On his way to the forest when he pulls out the snitch,

"He pressed the golden metal to his lips and whispered, "I am about to die."

Asking "Does it hurt?" really got me. Also a few lines later,

"You'll stay with me?"
"Until the very end," said James.
"They won't be able to see you?" ask Harry.
"We are part of you," said Sirius. "Invisible to anyone else."
Harry looked at his mother
"Stay close to me," he said quietly.

2. Snapes death. Wanting to look into Harry's (or lily's) eyes one last time.
3. Burying Dobby. ( Here lies Dobby, a free elf )
4. Neville killing Nagini was really cool
5. While I agree that the Epilogue was weak I really did like the last line,
"The scar has not pained Harry for nineteen years. All was well."
6. Malfoy Manor was a pretty powerful chapter, also.
7. Prof. McGonagall rallying the teachers for the final battle.

[Crapshoot]

The Snape Patronus bit was abolutely amazing, IMO - (and someone at Mugglenet had called it). When Dumbledore asks him, "After all these years"? Sevrus Snape lost out on perhaps the only person he loved in his life, and spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it. If that doesn't affect you - nothing will.

[Barkeep49]

The quiet dignity of what Harry does going to his death is truly amazing. Very heroic indeed and I think its that excellence, combined with King's Cross, that makes it so we forgive her for bringing Harry back in an only semi-sensical way.

[Izulde]

Good call on the Harry death-related stuff, Scoobz. Almost a little reminscent of The Little Prince in some aspects.

[Celeval]

The Battle of Hogwarts and surrounding chapters are, I think, the best run of any of the series.

[Neon_Chaos]

Best line in the entire book:

"NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"

[ISiddiqui]

I'm also fond of:

"What is the point of being an international Quiddich player if all the good ones are taken?" (or something like that).

[Celeval]

JKR did an intereview with Meredith Viera on the Today show that filled in a lot of the epilogue questions - including jobs of the trio, etc. Basically she says that she wrote out a longer epilogue but didn't like the way it read so went more minimalistic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/

[Crapshoot]

Good stuff - thanks Celeval!

[Scoobz0202]

Now that all seven books are out, and most of you have now read them, I would be interested to know what you feel is the best chapter and/or scene in the entire series (In the books, not the movies). Is it possible for you to recollect that? It has been 9 years since I read the first book ( I was 10 ), and have since read the first three books 10-15 times, the fourth 5-10 times, the fifth around 5 times, and the sixth probably five times. Yet, everytime I re-read the series I come across a scene that I forgot how powerful it was. But, off the top of my head I can recall loving the scenes where Harry first meets Mr. Ollivander and when he has his first class with Snape. For pure nostalgia, the first chapter "The Boy Who Lived" always, and especially now since I re-read it today just because the whole series was over, makes me feel really good. That could possibly be because I first read it when I was 10 and have since gone through a lot of changes obviously, yet I still have a love for the Harry Potter series. Or, maybe it's because it is weird to see how much the world of Harry Potter has progressed since the beginning, of which I have grown up with and alongside. What do you guys think?

[ISiddiqui]

I think the best scene is the face off between Harry and Voldemort at the end of Goblet of Fire. The rest of the book is average among HP books (IMO), but that end is absolutely brilliant.

The scene where Harry willingly walks to his death in this one is right up there as well. Just a brilliant bit of writing.

[spleen1015]

Maybe I should go back and reread them. I have only read 5 and 6 twice. The rest I have read just once.

[ISiddiqui]

JKR did an intereview with Meredith Viera on the Today show that filled in a lot of the epilogue questions - including jobs of the trio, etc. Basically she says that she wrote out a longer epilogue but didn't like the way it read so went more minimalistic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/

Very cool :). Thanks!!

[gkb]

JKR did an intereview with Meredith Viera on the Today show that filled in a lot of the epilogue questions - including jobs of the trio, etc. Basically she says that she wrote out a longer epilogue but didn't like the way it read so went more minimalistic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/

Thanks for sharing that link.

[KWhit]

Finally finished last night. I got a late start because I wanted to re-read all the others before I started on this one.

I enjoyed it, and thought that it was a worthy end to a spectacular series, but there weren't any surprises in it for me.

By far, the best chapter in the series was The Forest Again when Harry walks to his death. That was extremely moving, and a wonderful way to resolve things....

Except then Harry came back to life. Sigh... I think that was a huge opportunity missed by Rowling. I know that it would have been wildly controversial to have Harry die, but it would have made for an amazing end.

Alas. Earwax.

[KWhit]

Also, I didn't care for the King's Cross chapter. To have such a great moment in the forest followed up with a scene that TOTALLY reminded me of that awful scene from The Matrix movie with Keenu surrounded by television monitors was a letdown.

[KWhit]

I read through some of the Slate articles that somebody posted earlier, and this sums up my feelings about the ending pretty well:

When Harry is walking toward what he believes is his fatal destiny, it's the most heart-tugging section of the book; never has Harry been more heroic than when he knows that only his death can save the wizard world. Letting him scamper away from that via some bizarre technicality—one we understand (insofar as we understand it) only thanks to another "we're at the end of the book, so it's time for Dumbledore to explain everything" soliloquy—feels like Rowling copping out. Could we have handled a Harry death? I think we could have. I think it would have ennobled him, and us. Of course, I'm 31, not 12.

[Pyser]

the problem i see with harry staying dead in the forest is...what was the point?

he died with the knowledge that 3 people knew the last horcrux, but voldy was still alive and it seemed ridiculously unlikely anyone would kill him. thats a terrible ending to the series.

i loved the book. from the time harry and the gang are captured and taken to the malfoy manor until the end, it was really incredible.

also found the crucio curse not hurting harry at the end very interesting. not entirely sure why that was, but it really left no doubt (as if there was any doubt left at this point) how the book would end.

also, guess ill mention i wasnt a huge fan of how voldy died...i sort of dont get it. once again, harry basically did nothing, fired one curse, caught a wand, and the wand just finished out its last order from voldy. not much of a battle.

still loved the book though....but it never topped the end of GoF for me.

[KWhit]

the problem i see with harry staying dead in the forest is...what was the point?

he died with the knowledge that 3 people knew the last horcrux, but voldy was still alive and it seemed ridiculously unlikely anyone would kill him. thats a terrible ending to the series.

What I would have liked to have seen was the sequence changed so that Nagini was killed before Harry's forest visit, so that Harry's scar was the final Horcrux. Then Voldy curses Harry, killing him (and destroying the last horcrux), and takes his body to Hogwarts the same way he did in the book.

But upon seeing Harry's dead body, the students, teachers, etc set upon Voldy and the other Death Eaters and overwhelm them. I think it would have enhanced the theme of people needing to band together to defeat evil. Harry made the supreme sacrifice that enabled them to defeat Voldemort. In fact, it might have made sense that Voldy got slightly weaker as each Horcrux was destroyed and part of his soul died.

I think that would have been much stronger than the weird "You're dead, but you're not dead, and you're coming back to life because of something to do with the scar and the blood and the curse and stuff" conversation Dumbledore and Harry had. None of that made a whole lot of sense, actually. If J.K HAD to make Harry come back to life, she should have worked it so that Harry gained possession of the three Deathly Hallows and was able to survive because of that.

[Pyser]

If J.K HAD to make Harry come back to life, she should have worked it so that Harry gained possession of the three Deathly Hallows and was able to survive because of that.

thats what i was expecting. i thought, as harry went to his death, that somehow he would find a way to grab hold of the elder wand before he was killed, and then could come back.

course, then when he lost the stone, that threw that right out the window...

[ISiddiqui]

But upon seeing Harry's dead body, the students, teachers, etc set upon Voldy and the other Death Eaters and overwhelm them. I think it would have enhanced the theme of people needing to band together to defeat evil. Harry made the supreme sacrifice that enabled them to defeat Voldemort.

But I'd imagine seeing the Boy Who Lived dead wouldn't spur many people on. It'd make them utterly scared. Neville was the only one to rush out, and I think that showed just how much Neville had progressed. The rest of the people staying in the castle seems to me to be just the way they'd react.

[KWhit]

But I'd imagine seeing the Boy Who Lived dead wouldn't spur many people on. It'd make them utterly scared. Neville was the only one to rush out, and I think that showed just how much Neville had progressed. The rest of the people staying in the castle seems to me to be just the way they'd react.

I think it could be justified either way. Seeing their leader dead could very well cause them to react in defiance even though they knew they might die. Seeing that Harry gave his life for what is right - and didn't back down because he was scared - could easily be enough motivation for them to attack en masse. Even against a seemingly unbeatable foe.

That would have been much more believable/powerful than what was in the book, IMO.

[Pyser]

another aside:

if rowling really planned out from the beginning that harry touching the snitch in the first quiddich game with his mouth would play out how it did in book 7 (avoiding the MoM's investigation, even when they made harry grab the snitch in front of them)...

if that was planned out from book 1, that is beyond amazing.

[larrymcg421]

Okay, so I'm in the weird position of having watched the first 5 movies and then reading the last 2 books before reading the others. I did this because I wanted to read the final book before the ending got spoiled for me, and I didn't have time read all 7 books before that happened. I'm currently starting back from the beginning with the books, but I have a couple questions:

1) The movies seem to play up a Harry/Hermione/Ron triangle that just isn't there in the last two books, except the scene where Ron destroys the Horcrux. Is this a change of direction for the final two books or did the movie change this aspect of the story?

2) My memory may be fuzzy on some of the movies, but I don't remember them playing up Harry/Ginny very much, aside from a few minor scenes. However, in book 6 that is all over the place. Did we lose alot of Ginny scenes in the movie adaptations?

3) I have to admit, approaching the stories in this manner, it's hard not to simply picture the actors while reading the books. However, I have heard some complaints as to how the actors have portrayed the characters. What are the most glaring problems from the performances?

[Eaglesfan27]

Okay, so I'm in the weird position of having watched the first 5 movies and then reading the last 2 books before reading the others. I did this because I wanted to read the final book before the ending got spoiled for me, and I didn't have time read all 7 books before that happened. I'm currently starting back from the beginning with the books, but I have a couple questions:

1) The movies seem to play up a Harry/Hermione/Ron triangle that just isn't there in the last two books, except the scene where Ron destroys the Horcrux. Is this a change of direction for the final two books or did the movie change this aspect of the story?

2) My memory may be fuzzy on some of the movies, but I don't remember them playing up Harry/Ginny very much, aside from a few minor scenes. However, in book 6 that is all over the place. Did we lose alot of Ginny scenes in the movie adaptations?

3) I have to admit, approaching the stories in this manner, it's hard not to simply picture the actors while reading the books. However, I have heard some complaints as to how the actors have portrayed the characters. What are the most glaring problems from the performances?

1. I thought Ron's concerns about Harry and Hermione were always present from book 2 or 3 on, but it was always subtle.

2. There were indications from book 2 or 3 that Ginny liked Harry even if it was just her inability to be around him at first, but he was hooked on Cho so they never entered into a relationship until book 6.

[Barkeep49]

Larry: I don't know about the other two, but yes Ginny was far more prevalent throughout the series starting with book 2. Her experiences with Tom Riddle's diary were poorly done in the movie, imo, and far more complete in the book, as just one example. The Harry/Ginny romance, however, didn't start until Book 6 though.

[Lathum]

Okay, so I'm in the weird position of having watched the first 5 movies and then reading the last 2 books before reading the others. I did this because I wanted to read the final book before the ending got spoiled for me, and I didn't have time read all 7 books before that happened. I'm currently starting back from the beginning with the books, but I have a couple questions:

1) The movies seem to play up a Harry/Hermione/Ron triangle that just isn't there in the last two books, except the scene where Ron destroys the Horcrux. Is this a change of direction for the final two books or did the movie change this aspect of the story?

2) My memory may be fuzzy on some of the movies, but I don't remember them playing up Harry/Ginny very much, aside from a few minor scenes. However, in book 6 that is all over the place. Did we lose alot of Ginny scenes in the movie adaptations?

3) I have to admit, approaching the stories in this manner, it's hard not to simply picture the actors while reading the books. However, I have heard some complaints as to how the actors have portrayed the characters. What are the most glaring problems from the performances?


1. There was never any "triangle" in the books, there was never anything where Harry-Hermione had anything that would suggest they are more then friends.

The Goblet of Fire is where the Ron-Hermione feelings start coming out. The scene from the book IMO stems more from Ron playing second fiddle to Harry ( a theme that is very much touched upon in the books) and him having to deal with thoses feelings.

2. I think the movies lose some, Ginny first appears in the second book and it is made very clear she has a crush on Harry. Until Harry becomes a little more mature ( book 5) those feelings are pretty much 1 sided. The relationship obviously blossoms in book 6.

3. The 3 kids were pretty poor actors when they were younger and IMO have gotten alot better. I think the issues people have is more with the directing and less with the acting.

[Bearcat729]

2. I think the movies lose some, Ginny first appears in the second book and it is made very clear she has a crush on Harry. Until Harry becomes a little more mature ( book 5) those feelings are pretty much 1 sided. The relationship obviously blossoms in book 6.



Ginny appears in the first book, but only for a short moment when she asks to go on to the Hogwarts Express and see Harry. She may appear at the end of the book when they exit the train and Ron's family is there to pick him up.

[gkb]

Okay, so I'm in the weird position of having watched the first 5 movies and then reading the last 2 books before reading the others. I did this because I wanted to read the final book before the ending got spoiled for me, and I didn't have time read all 7 books before that happened. I'm currently starting back from the beginning with the books, but I have a couple questions:

3) I have to admit, approaching the stories in this manner, it's hard not to simply picture the actors while reading the books. However, I have heard some complaints as to how the actors have portrayed the characters. What are the most glaring problems from the performances?

I'll just comment briefly on number 3. I don't think the actors that play the kids are that great, they don't seem to have much range. They've definitely improved. The biggest problem I have with any of the three characters is how they portray Ron in the earlier movies. He seems to have a frozen look of horror on his face in every scene...it annoys me. I like him much more in the books.

[Lathum]

Ginny appears in the first book, but only for a short moment when she asks to go on to the Hogwarts Express and see Harry. She may appear at the end of the book when they exit the train and Ron's family is there to pick him up.

When I said appears I meant in a significant sense, here standing next to her Mom really has no bearing.

[Buccaneer]

I'll just comment briefly on number 3. I don't think the actors that play the kids are that great, they don't seem to have much range. They've definitely improved. The biggest problem I have with any of the three characters is how they portray Ron in the earlier movies. He seems to have a frozen look of horror on his face in every scene...it annoys me. I like him much more in the books.

Yes, exactly. He made Chamber of Secrets nearly unwatchable. In the last two movies, he has been playing the sullen teen which is an improvement. But imo, his character in the book is pretty shallow or one-dimensional, not like Harry and Hermoine.

[Celeval]

When I said appears I meant in a significant sense, here standing next to her Mom really has no bearing.

Actually, it does set things up a bit - both of our moments with Ginny in the first book are her wanting to see Harry. At the beginning, Harry hears her with Mrs Weasley outside the train after F&G tell the Weasleys Harry was there, she wants to go on the train and see him, then (I think...?) she chases the train waving goodbye to her brothers. At the end, she wants to meet Harry too, I think, but I could be remembering wrong there.

[Crapshoot]

Yes, exactly. He made Chamber of Secrets nearly unwatchable. In the last two movies, he has been playing the sullen teen which is an improvement. But imo, his character in the book is pretty shallow or one-dimensional, not like Harry and Hermoine.

I ugh, beg to disagree. Ron is possibly my favorite character (even if Snape is the best one) in the books. I think we see him grow - from the standard teenager bits, to his cruel side (which Luna comments on), to his bravery and ability to live his life knowing he's always the younger brother, or the sidekick, always the man in the shadows, not the limelight.

[Bearcat729]

Actually, it does set things up a bit - both of our moments with Ginny in the first book are her wanting to see Harry. At the beginning, Harry hears her with Mrs Weasley outside the train after F&G tell the Weasleys Harry was there, she wants to go on the train and see him, then (I think...?) she chases the train waving goodbye to her brothers. At the end, she wants to meet Harry too, I think, but I could be remembering wrong there.

Actually I went and double checked in the book. In the end she's excited because she she's him and notices his scar but Mrs Weasley tells her it's rude to point. So it does set up the crush that follows in Chamber of Secrets(She spends all summer talking about Harry if I remember what Ron tells him after they get back to the burrow)

[ISiddiqui]

I agree with Crapshoot.. Ron is possibly my favorite character. He has a ton more depth in the books, as a completely overshadowed younger sibling who simply wants to make a name for himself and not be called "another Weasley" as the Sorting Hat did. That inferiority complex can manifest itself in intense jealousy and cruelty at times. But he grows into a heroic type of personality, first continuing to plug away at Quiddich until he becomes the savior (Weasley Is Our King becoming a mark of pride rather than taunting), and then being instrumental in Harry's quest to bring down Voldy.

[Celeval]

Yeah... all three have their depth, much more so than what shows in the movies. Movie-Ron in particular seems to get the short shaft, sometimes for Hermione's benefit (she has been, I think, much less of a character in the movies, as she seems "better" all around).

[ISiddiqui]

Indeed... Ron has been relegated to the stereotypical "sidekick" in the movies.

[saldana]

i think the movie hermione is awful (even though emma watson is HOT)...all her lines are totally cardboard, and she is way to snotty and overbearing...thats how she was in the first book, but by now, she should have mellowed out quite a bit

[BrianD]

i think the movie hermione is awful (even though emma watson is HOT)...all her lines are totally cardboard, and she is way to snotty and overbearing...thats how she was in the first book, but by now, she should have mellowed out quite a bit

She's getting better.

"Breaking rules is fun, isn't it?"

[ISiddiqui]

i think the movie hermione is awful (even though emma watson is HOT)...all her lines are totally cardboard, and she is way to snotty and overbearing...thats how she was in the first book, but by now, she should have mellowed out quite a bit

I think the 'cardboard' is more a function of Emma's acting. Most reviews of OOtP indicated that they though Watson was completely unconvincing.

[mauchow]

I wouldn't mind 'you know whating' Rowling.

[Buccaneer]

There you go. A lot of answers to the questions everyone had been dying to ask (transcipt of JK's chat)

http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/full_story/1156

[Lathum]

interesting stuff

[Pyser]

still dont know why the crucio curse didnt hurt...

[Crapshoot]

More good stuff - the Rowling fan interview, answers a bunch of stuff. Should have asked a question.

[larrymcg421]

i think the movie hermione is awful (even though emma watson is HOT)...all her lines are totally cardboard, and she is way to snotty and overbearing...thats how she was in the first book, but by now, she should have mellowed out quite a bit

Again, I haven't read the rest of the books yet (I'm currently near the end of the 1st), but she certainly doesnt seem to have mellowed out by book 6. She nags Harry through the entirety of it.

[Buccaneer]

Crapshot, it was only 3 posts ago.

[ISiddiqui]

still dont know why the crucio curse didnt hurt...

Harry's willing sacrifice gave a protection over him as well as the rest of the folks he protected, as Lily gave to him (though Lily actually died and stayed dead, unlike Harry).

[Crapshoot]

Crapshot, it was only 3 posts ago.

Sorrry - the page flipped over and I didn't catch it. :D

[QuikSand]

Thanks for the lively discussion, fellas. I had trouble finding much motivation to keep reading this one (especially in the middle - sounds like I wasn't alone there) but finally slogged through the end tonight. I have some broader thoughts I may post tomorrow, but for now...

-I found this book to be awfully disjointed (I agree with an earlier comment that maybe lacking the walls and structure of the school contributed to this)

-I was a bit disappointed with the nature of the final resolution of most of the major unanswered questions, as well as the final HP/LV showdown

-I'm not sure that I got a lot more out of investing the hours necessary to actually read the book than, say, reading a three or five page summary by some sniveling twit on the internet. I wanted to find out "how it ends" but really didn't feel moved my any of the scenes... maybe it just was my own cynicism welling up.


In any event -- a very readable and enjoyable series, and her creation of such a coherent and engaging fantasy setting is really admirable.

[Brillig]

Here's an oddity. I'm an avid SF/Fantasy reader. Last time I counted (last summer), I had over 2000 titles in my personal library. I've reread my favorite titles many times, and yet... I've never picked up a Harry Potter book.

Saw the first movie with a group from work (Silicon Valley geeks are like that.) Haven't seen any since.

Don't really know why, I guess the whole thing never grabbed me.

[gkb]

There you go. A lot of answers to the questions everyone had been dying to ask (transcipt of JK's chat)

http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/full_story/1156

That was a good read, thanks for sharing the link.

[Eaglesfan27]

Here's an oddity. I'm an avid SF/Fantasy reader. Last time I counted (last summer), I had over 2000 titles in my personal library. I've reread my favorite titles many times, and yet... I've never picked up a Harry Potter book.

Saw the first movie with a group from work (Silicon Valley geeks are like that.) Haven't seen any since.

Don't really know why, I guess the whole thing never grabbed me.

The books are much better than the movies. If you enjoy fantasy series, you really should give the books a try. I also have over a thousand books in my personal library at home and SF/Fantasy is also my favorite genre - I'd say this series is in my top 5 in the genre.

[gkb]

The books are much better than the movies. If you enjoy fantasy series, you really should give the books a try. I also have over a thousand books in my personal library at home and SF/Fantasy is also my favorite genre - I'd say this series is in my top 5 in the genre.

Now I'm curious...what's else is in your top 5?

[Pyser]

Harry's willing sacrifice gave a protection over him as well as the rest of the folks he protected, as Lily gave to him (though Lily actually died and stayed dead, unlike Harry).

lily's same protection of the crucio curse didnt spare harry pain before, and i doubt if voldemort did the curse to anyone else at the school while people still thought harry was dead that they wouldnt feel anything either...

but then again, i could be wrong.

[ISiddiqui]

lily's same protection of the crucio curse didnt spare harry pain before, and i doubt if voldemort did the curse to anyone else at the school while people still thought harry was dead that they wouldnt feel anything either...

but then again, i could be wrong.

But, remember, Voldemort, prior to hitting Harry with the crucio curse in Goblet of Fire was resurrected with Harry's blood, ending that protection (though double linking him with Harry, preventing Harry's death in Deathly Hallows). In DH, Harry's own willing sacrifice gave him another protection... replacing the one Lily gave him, which have been circumvented.

IIRC, there was mention made that Voldy's curses weren't particularly hurting anyone (or were miraculously avoided) in the final battle.

[albionmoonlight]

Also, Voldemort was crucio cursing Harry with the Elder Wand. And Harry was the master of that wand. Maybe that is why it did not hurt.

[Eaglesfan27]

Now I'm curious...what's else is in your top 5?

In no particular order:

1. Orson Scott Card's Ender Wiggins books. I read these as a teenager and they have been among my favorites ever since. I've reread them at least a half dozen times over the years.

2. George R. Martins - A Song of Ice and Fire series. A brilliant series of books so far. Not for younger readers.

3. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. This also gets a bit of bonus points for being one of my first series read in the genre.

4. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series - He loses his way at times in the series and it can become overwhelming for the reader trying to keep all of the side plots, intrigues, etc straight, but it is still a great series of books.

[gkb]

In no particular order:

1. Orson Scott Card's Ender Wiggins books. I read these as a teenager and they have been among my favorites ever since. I've reread them at least a half dozen times over the years.

2. George R. Martins - A Song of Ice and Fire series. A brilliant series of books so far. Not for younger readers.

3. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. This also gets a bit of bonus points for being one of my first series read in the genre.

4. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series - He loses his way at times in the series and it can become overwhelming for the reader trying to keep all of the side plots, intrigues, etc straight, but it is still a great series of books.

I've read Ender's Game and I thought it was great. I haven't read any of the other books in that series.

I read the first two of Martins series, but I lost interest for some reason.

I really enjoyed the Lord of the Rings.

The WoT Series lost me. I thought the first few were great, but then I slowly got frustrated and I haven't bothered buying the last couple. The same can be said for Terry Goodkind's series.

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I would put Raymond Feist's first trilogy up there as books I've really enjoyed.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've read Ender's Game and I thought it was great. I haven't read any of the other books in that series.

I read the first two of Martins series, but I lost interest for some reason.

I really enjoyed the Lord of the Rings.

The WoT Series lost me. I thought the first few were great, but then I slowly got frustrated and I haven't bothered buying the last couple. The same can be said for Terry Goodkind's series.

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I would put Raymond Feist's first trilogy up there as books I've really enjoyed.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, and maybe this would be a worthy discussion for a new thread, but Magician is one of my favorite books ever and I'd put that series very close to my top 5.

[Pyser]

Also, Voldemort was crucio cursing Harry with the Elder Wand. And Harry was the master of that wand. Maybe that is why it did not hurt.

THAT makes sense. thank you

(though it also makes you realize harry isnt really in that great a danger, but whatever!)

[larrymcg421]

THAT makes sense. thank you

(though it also makes you realize harry isnt really in that great a danger, but whatever!)

Good point, but if it is sufficiently complex enough that people won't get that during their first read, then I'd say it still works.

[Pyser]

the wand did still kill harry though, i guess....sort of

[PadresFan104]

Just finished the book last night. As for the epilogue that everyone is talking about, am I the only one who was struck by the exactness of 19 years? Why pick that point in time? To me, I was filled with a clear sense that it meant that they had ONLY 19 years of calmness, and another storm was about to whip up. Now, had Harry walked over to Draco and had a nice chat, I might not be so inclined to think this way, but something is coming, and I'm guessing Draco will be involved.

Before the book came out, I was discussing Snape with my wife and daughter, expressing the fact that even after his apparent murder of DD, I still thought he was a "good guy." They couldn't believe I'd say such a thing, as they hated the character.

Tonight I will be doing the "Neener, Neener, Neener - Told you So!!" dance for my wife and daughter, while pantomiming a hook in my mouth as they bought it hard! Yes, I'm a very mature person. ;)

Al

[Pyser]

i think rowlings wrote that it was 19 years because anything earlier and the kids wouldve been too young, or harry wouldve had kids too young, and it wouldnt have worked...she wasnt trying to "promote teenage pregnancies" i think she said.

[JeeberD]

So, ummmm...I think JK just jumped the shark.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071020/ap_on_en_ot/books_harry_potter

NEW YORK - Harry Potter fans, the rumors are true: Albus Dumbledore, master wizard and Headmaster of Hogwarts, is gay. J.K. Rowling, author of the mega-selling fantasy series that ended last summer, outed the beloved character Friday night while appearing before a full house at Carnegie Hall.
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After reading briefly from the final book, "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," she took questions from audience members.

She was asked by one young fan whether Dumbledore finds "true love."

"Dumbledore is gay," the author responded to gasps and applause.

She then explained that Dumbledore was smitten with rival Gellert Grindelwald, whom he defeated long ago in a battle between good and bad wizards. "Falling in love can blind us to an extent," Rowling said of Dumbledore's feelings, adding that Dumbledore was "horribly, terribly let down."

Dumbledore's love, she observed, was his "great tragedy."

"Oh, my god," Rowling concluded with a laugh, "the fan fiction."

Potter readers on fan sites and elsewhere on the Internet have speculated on the sexuality of Dumbledore, noting that he has no close relationship with women and a mysterious, troubled past. And explicit scenes with Dumbledore already have appeared in fan fiction.

Rowling told the audience that while working on the planned sixth Potter film, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince," she spotted a reference in the script to a girl who once was of interest to Dumbledore. A note was duly passed to director David Yates, revealing the truth about her character.

Rowling, finishing a brief "Open Book Tour" of the United States, her first tour here since 2000, also said that she regarded her Potter books as a "prolonged argument for tolerance" and urged her fans to "question authority."

Not everyone likes her work, Rowling said, likely referring to Christian groups that have alleged the books promote witchcraft. Her news about Dumbledore, she said, will give them one more reason.

[larrymcg421]

Where's the revelation?

[Galaril]

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. She must like controversy. Not too smart from a US market perspective with the Religious Right probably planning there protests around her US book signinf tour. I wonder how long before you says that Harry is against the War in Iraq.

[larrymcg421]

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. She must like controversy. Not too smart from a US market perspective with the Religious Right probably planning there protests around her US book signinf tour. I wonder how long before you says that Harry is against the War in Iraq.

Not too smart? Are you kidding? The book has already sold a zillion copies. It's not like stores are gonna suddenly stop carrying it. If anything, this will increase sales. If the religious right is dumb enough to pick this story up and run with it, it'll be free advertising for months.

[Lathum]

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. She must like controversy. Not too smart from a US market perspective with the Religious Right probably planning there protests around her US book signinf tour. I wonder how long before you says that Harry is against the War in Iraq.

Marketing???

One thing you can say about her is that she has never once cared about the maketing of her books or catering to anyone. I honestly believe Harry Potter is a labor lof love for her and she would stay true to her vison of the chaerectures no matter what.

[Galaril]

Marketing???

One thing you can say about her is that she has never once cared about the maketing of her books or catering to anyone. I honestly believe Harry Potter is a labor lof love for her and she would stay true to her vison of the chaerectures no matter what.

Which is why she had no issue with this.

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, the marketing line is idiotic. And I'm not that surprised - a lot of people had asked why Dumbledore had never settled down, or anything of the sort. Not a huge issue either way, but perfectly acceptable given the series.

[Rizon]

In other surprising news: Lance Bass is gay.

[JeeberD]

If this is something that Jo knew all along, I'm surprised there wasn't some throwaway line in Rita Skeeter's book mentioning it...

[Lathum]

If this is something that Jo knew all along, I'm surprised there wasn't some throwaway line in Rita Skeeter's book mentioning it...

I would imagine she knew it all along but didn't wanna skew the viewers perceptions of him one way or the other