Any lawyers out there?

[Noble_Platypus]

2 months ago my wife and I were hit by a drunk driver. Car was smashed up (since fixed, $3700) and we were both hurt. Me, nothing more than a stiff neck. My wife on the other hand has 5 vertebre out of alignment, lots of soft tissue damage, has been off work for 2 months now and the guy from Johns Hopkins we had her to says she may not need surgury but will need rehab for at least the next 9-12 months. she has 6 hours of rehab a week and is in pain and a wreck after each session.Needless to say it fucked up our summer plans and finances. I have friends telling me I should get a lawyer now, and others who say wait until her insurance give me an offer because a lawyer will take a third. Advice?

BTW, I found her court date online in a PDF and she was charges with careless driving, general impairment of driving safety (first offense) and "highest rate of alcohol BAC .16+" (first offense)

[Z²+]

I am not licensed to practice law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and the following should not be construed as legal advice or an offer for legal representation. I hereby disclaim all liability for all direct and indirect consequences of the following statements.


Your friends are correct on both points: you should get a lawyer, and the lawyer will likely take 30% to 40%, depending on if the case settles or goes to trial. The drunken lady's insurance company may ultimately make you an offer to settle all claims, but they are a business, and will try to do so at the lowest possible cost to themselves. As such, their offer will likely be much lower than you could recover with the threat of a lawsuit. If you accept the insurance offer, you will almost certainly be giving up all rights to later sue drunken lady. Also, the insurance offer most likely will only be to cover your wife's medical expenses. On the other hand, a lawsuit can recover for medical expenses, pain and suffering, emotional distress, loss of consortium and marital relations (you can actually recover if the accident affected your sex life!), loss of income, loss of enjoyment of life, and several other creative legal claims. Plus, since she was charged with some pretty serious offenses (the "highest rate of alcohol" charge is VERY serious in PA, even for a first offense), it will be nearly impossible for her to mount any type of credible defense in a lawsuit, and you would have tremendous leverage in settlement talks. However, you will have to give up approximately 1/3 in legal fees -- but you will still probably come out ahead.

Almost all lawywers have free consulations -- you can go in and talk with a personal injury lawyer for free, and they will evaluate whether they think you have a valid claim. It can't hurt to set up an appointment and talk with one just to have all your options spelled out.

And if you wait until the bar exam results are posted in mid-October, I'll be able to offer my services, for a modest 33% fee, of course :)

Good luck...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Rule 1: Always get a lawyer. Without one, you will be incredibly lowballed by the insurance company. You also have no clue what your case is worth, and they do.

Rule 2: Consider paying the lawyer hourly/set fee. While most personal injury lawyers will want to take a winner like this on contingency to get the 30-40%, there is nothing that prevents you from finding a lawyer who won't. Consider negotiating with a lawyer to represent you initially in negotiations and making a settlement demand on the insurance company -- at a set fee or hourly rate. There's no reason why a lawyer can't be retained in such a manner, even on a personal injury case. For example, you could ask him to preliminarily review your case and write a demand letter for $___. Attend a mediation for $____. File a lawsuit for $______, and so on.

The key is once the insurance co. knows a lawyer is involved, the value of your case goes way up.

Also, it seems like based on the time frame and the injury, you may want to actually wait awhile to see just how bad your wife may be so that you get properly compensated. Beware of the statute of limitations on your claim though if you wait too long. Check what it is in your jurisdiction (although it's likely to be at least 2-3 years).

Finally, don't sign a damn thing or give a statement to the insurance company, until you get a lawyer.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

One more thing. As for the direct question. Sure you can wait for the insurance offer and avoid paying any lawyer fee. But without the lawyer, you will get a pittance offered by the insurance co., believe me. Sometimes, an offer will come in like $50k. And to the novice, it seems like "well, hell, that's a lot of money, I'll just take that and avoid paying a lawyer." However, in reality, the claim may very well have been worth $200k+. The novice simply does not know the value of a case.

[Ksyrup]

Depending on the state's lawyer contingency fee rules, a lawyer may not get anywhere near 30% depending on the stage at which the case is completed (settling early vs. going to trial, for instance). I don't know how it works in PA, however.

[RedKingGold]

Depending on the state's lawyer contingency fee rules, a lawyer may not get anywhere near 30% depending on the stage at which the case is completed (settling early vs. going to trial, for instance). I don't know how it works in PA, however.

Most personal injury firms/attorneys in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (Pennsylvania) area claim 1/3 (plus expenses), but only if there is a settlement or positive verdict.

However, it would definitely be worth your while to contact an attorney immediately. The initial consultation is free, and most reputable law firms (best to pick a firm over an individual practicing attorney) and most expenses occured during the initial phases are minimal cost (getting the police report, recent medical records, etc,)

Also, the best advice I can give is to continue to seek consistent medical treatment during this period of time. For "soft tissue" injuries, your best evidence of proof of damages is consistent medical care following the injury.

[molson]

I agree with all of the above, but also figure out what jurisdiction is handling the case, and contact the handling prosecutor.

Most states have restitution statues that require judges to order restitution to victims. I'm in a small prosecutor's office, and he have a full-time person that deals solely with this kind of thing.

The prosecutor will also want to hear about how this crime has impacted you - this kind of information will make this guy's sentence 3X as harsh, if not more.

[Noble_Platypus]

Great, thanks to all for the advice. I guess now I have to find a good lawyer. Being that I havent used one around here (York,Pa) I guess I will have to call a few and talk to them to see who seems the best.

[Ksyrup]

Most personal injury firms/attorneys in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (Pennsylvania) area claim 1/3 (plus expenses), but only if there is a settlement or positive verdict.

OK, laws are different everywhere. I still remember seeing an ad for a PA law firm when I was visiting my wife's family in NJ that featured OJ. Standards definitely vary from state to state!

[marcmoustache]

In England we have tons of no win no fee lawyers and they also changed the law so that the lawyer could actually get their fee off the person/insurance company you're claiming off. Nothing like that in the States?

[MikeVic]

That's a funny name. marcmoustache.

[st.cronin]

I like how all the lawyers say "you should hire a lawyer."

[Logan]

I like how all the lawyers say "you should hire a lawyer."

I like how all the insurance companies say "You, uninformed one, should take our settlement."

[MikeVic]

I like how the air smells after a good downpour.

[Ksyrup]

The legislatures and courts are run primarily by lawyers. So our jobs will never be obsolete, generally speaking.

[gkb]

I like how these forums have lawyers and a psychiatrist (I'm not sure, but do we have any doctors besides the aforementioned shrink?) and, as far as I know, all of those people are really helpful when people ask questions that they can help with...I love this place. :)

[molson]

I like how all the lawyers say "you should hire a lawyer."

True.

But I can't emphasize enough that you already have a lawyer - the prosecutor. And you've already paid for him.

If this were my county, you would have already heard from me, received paperwork where you could detail your estimated out-of-pocket expenses, and any resolution would include, as part of the judgment, anything that insurance doesn't eventually cover.

Of course, I have no clue how the system works in PA, but it could potentially save you a lot of money.

[miked]

Can a person just file a lawsuit without a lawyer?

It would be great if the lawyers on this board posted the details on how they can make their jobs obsolete.

My good friend is a lawyer and I had asked him this same thing about somebody backing out of my mom's house contract 3 days before closing. He told me I was pretty much free to file anything, but without any specific knowledge of the law, there would be no way it would ever even get to court. The amount of procedures and paperwork make it more or less necessary to obtain an "expert" if you really want to succeed. I have no knowledge of contract law, and homebuying laws, so I would of course be obliterated by a lawyer with modest knowledge (is how he explained it to me).

[Vinatieri for Prez]

True.

But I can't emphasize enough that you already have a lawyer - the prosecutor. And you've already paid for him.

If this were my county, you would have already heard from me, received paperwork where you could detail your estimated out-of-pocket expenses, and any resolution would include, as part of the judgment, anything that insurance doesn't eventually cover.

Of course, I have no clue how the system works in PA, but it could potentially save you a lot of money.

If you are counting on a prosecutor to safeguard your financial interests in a civil matter, you are making a very big mistake. At most, you will get out of pocket costs for restitution (unlikely to include medical costs), let alone nothing to compensate you for future costs and wage loss from a permanent or semi-permanent injury.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Can a person just file a lawsuit without a lawyer?

It would be great if the lawyers on this board posted the details on how they can make their jobs obsolete.

Yes, it happens often. It's actually not that difficult to do. It's everything that comes after that. And it's not just because the "rules are complex." It's that knowledge, skill, and experience is what wins a case. The problem is that the other side has someone with those qualities (at varying degrees of course). That's why if you don't have one, you are firing a gun at somone with tanks and bombs.

I should also add that if you do file your own lawsuit and represent yourself, the courts will cut you an incredible amount of slack if you miss following some rules. However, that will only happen if you are respectful to the legal process and not act like an asshat.

[st.cronin]

I should also add that if you do file your own lawsuit and represent yourself, the courts will cut you an incredible amount of slack if you miss following some rules.

I have heard the exact opposite.

[molson]

If you are counting on a prosecutor to safeguard your financial interests in a civil matter, you are making a very big mistake. At most, you will get out of pocket costs for restitution (unlikely to include medical costs), let alone nothing to compensate you for future costs and wage loss from a permanent or semi-permanent injury.

Restitution statutes would include car repairs, medical bills, and out-of-pocket wages in a case like this. There's no reason you can't bring in a private attorney later, or bring in one in a lesser role. (The criminal system will usually proceed more quickly then the civil system - at least at the misdemeanor level.).

Private attorneys won't hesitiate to bill you for things you can easily do yourself. (Especially solo attorneys or attorneys in very small firms). Law schools don't teach students a whole lot of practical skills in terms of bringing a civil suit, etc. Attorneys need either experience or the structure of a good firm to do what's necessary. Otherwise, (mediocre) attorneys are figuring out stuff the same way you would - books and the internet.

[molson]

I have heard the exact opposite.

Clerks who file the necessary motions ect. aren't going to give pro se folk any slack - they really can't, legally. In a trial setting, judges will vary, but even the most understanding ones are still going to be limited by the law.

[JediKooter]

Can a person just file a lawsuit without a lawyer?

It would be great if the lawyers on this board posted the details on how they can make their jobs obsolete.

Yes, you can. The problem is, every court has its own special 'in house' rules and sometimes the judges and lawyers get pissy because now someone is trying to play in their club house that they aren't a member of. So, if you do, just make sure you follow the rules and usually, the rules can be found at the court or in a law library.

I think when you file a lawsuit without a lawyer or representing yourself, it's called Pro Se, but that might not be the proper term.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes, you can. The problem is, every court has its own special 'in house' rules and sometimes the judges and lawyers get pissy because now someone is trying to play in their club house that they aren't a member of. So, if you do, just make sure you follow the rules and usually, the rules can be found at the court or in a law library.

I think when you file a lawsuit without a lawyer or representing yourself, it's called Pro Se, but that might not be the proper term.

Ok, this is an embellishment here. In most cases, judges do not get pissy about a pro se party representing themselves. Opposing attorneys do get frustrated because they often have to follow the rules, whereas the pro se party gets cut some slack.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Clerks who file the necessary motions ect. aren't going to give pro se folk any slack - they really can't, legally. In a trial setting, judges will vary, but even the most understanding ones are still going to be limited by the law.

Yes, but much of the law related to procedural issues (i.e. following the court rules) give a judge very broad discretion towards the end of justice. This often results in pro se parties being forgiven for missing deadlines, submitting evidence that is technically not admissible, and giving them more time to respond to motions.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I have heard the exact opposite.

Then you're not hearing the truth or you're in an area with a bunch of mean judges.

[RedKingGold]

Clerks who file the necessary motions ect. aren't going to give pro se folk any slack - they really can't, legally. In a trial setting, judges will vary, but even the most understanding ones are still going to be limited by the law.

I'm clerking for a Luzerne County Court of Common Please judge this summer after finishing up my 1L at Villanova. I recently handled preliminary objections from a defendant where the plaintiff was pursuing the case pro se. I will tell you that the judge told me that there are cases (which names slip my mind at the moment) which do allow a party choosing to proceed without representation in a civil matter some amount of leeway when handling pleadings.

However, there is some form of proper decorum (such as verifying a complaint) which simply cannot be waived or given leeway. I guess it really depends on the judge. The person whom I am working for is very forgiving and kind and lets much slide. I did have to sustain some of the preliminary objections for the opposing party, but did write a clear opinion which I hope helps him out if he chooses to file an amended complaint.

As far as "lawyers telling people to go get lawyers", it's really the same principle as when you're sick. If you know you need surgery, you don't try to do it yourself or have a friend help you out with it. The same goes with other professions. I don't pretend I know anything about cars, so instead of causing the whole engine to blow up trying to tinker, I take my car to a mechanic. Fact is, the law is and can be difficult to understand. While filing pleadings can appear to be simple, there are many pratfalls that you are simply hurting yourself if you attempt to proceed pro se.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Restitution statutes would include car repairs, medical bills, and out-of-pocket wages in a case like this. There's no reason you can't bring in a private attorney later, or bring in one in a lesser role. (The criminal system will usually proceed more quickly then the civil system - at least at the misdemeanor level.).

Private attorneys won't hesitiate to bill you for things you can easily do yourself. (Especially solo attorneys or attorneys in very small firms). Law schools don't teach students a whole lot of practical skills in terms of bringing a civil suit, etc. Attorneys need either experience or the structure of a good firm to do what's necessary. Otherwise, (mediocre) attorneys are figuring out stuff the same way you would - books and the internet.

I hate to tell you but in an accident of the type that opened this thread, the main component of damages is pain and suffering and future wage loss. These are not recoverable in criminal restitution. Only the most straightforward medical bills (immediate care of the injury on the day of the accident) would likely be recoverable. So, not involving an attorney is really hurting your chances of recovering full compensation.

In terms of this billing you describe, here's a couple of things. First, you are fee to negotiate with your lawyer what you will and won't pay for - including things you can "easily" do yourself. Not to mention if you go the contingency route this kind of stuff doesn't matter. In terms of legal research, I will tell you straight up that the average person will have a lot of difficulty. It's not about finding one case, it's about finding all the cases, including the perfect one, that apply. And making sure that case is still good law. If you think you can complete your research off the internet and books (without knowing how to update your law and how different legal principles intertwine), again you are mistaken. Not to mention the time commitment it will take. However, for the above case that started this thread, legal research is not that important - liability is a given here. The issue is damages - and what you need is someone with practical experience on valuing these cases and is a skilled negotiator.

I liken this stuff to fixing your own car. You can hire a mechanic or read some books and the internet and do it yourself. For some things, you can get away with it. For other things, you just won't be able to do it without the experience of working with cars. The better you are working with your hands and are mechanically inclined, the more stuff you will be able to do. Except sometimes with the law, there is a whole lot more at stake than whether you car starts, not to mention if you fail, you can eventually take it to a mechanic for a fix, where with a lawsuit there are no second chances.

[RedKingGold]

Clerks who file the necessary motions ect. aren't going to give pro se folk any slack - they really can't, legally.

Heck, I did

<goes and hides behind the bushes>

:)

[RedKingGold]

Some junk which agrees with my earlier comments along with blatantly copying my mechanic hypothetical

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

:p

[Ksyrup]

There's no way to upload attachments on this board, is there? Because I've got a couple of docs from my time in Florida that fit well with the pro se discussion. :)

[Vinatieri for Prez]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

:p

HaHa. I actually started writing that before you posted your bit. By the time I finished, your post went up. Great minds think alike.

Thanks for actually putting your real world experience out there to dispell some very bad misinformation out there. It meshes with mine. I actually know of a case where a pro se party (who was pretty much looking like she was abusing the system by filing a claim with little or no merit) was given THREE EXTENSIONS by a State Court of Appeal after she repeatedly missed filing deadlines on her appeal of the trial judge's decision. Any lawyer who missed one of those deadlines would be in big trouble.