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primelord
08-03-2007, 09:48 PM
I have compiled data on a little over 70,000 MP plays in FOF. For those that are interested in that data you can access it at the following links:

http://www.fof-research.com/runinfo.php
http://www.fof-research.com/passinfo.php

Enjoy.
Sgran
08-04-2007, 02:45 AM
Awesome. What does WF stand for?

Also, would it be asking a lot to see fumbles per carry?
gstelmack
08-04-2007, 08:31 AM
Are these plays you generated or got from leagues? How many are from 2k7-only leagues (i.e. not skewed by 2k4 player ratings)?

Love the start of this idea. Is this from the HTML, or from the Solevision stuff? There's a lot we can track once we start reading the Solevision data.
primelord
08-04-2007, 11:55 AM
Awesome. What does WF stand for?

Also, would it be asking a lot to see fumbles per carry?

WF Avg is a win/fail point system. It is based behind the theory that the most important thing to do in football is move the chains. It's what football outsiders based their VOA rankings off of. A play is considered a win if it gains 40% of the needed yards for a 1st down on 1st down, 60% of the needed yards on 2nd down, and only a successful 1st down is a win on 3dr or 4th down. There are bonus points given for big gains and negative points given for losses.
primelord
08-04-2007, 11:56 AM
Are these plays you generated or got from leagues? How many are from 2k7-only leagues (i.e. not skewed by 2k4 player ratings)?

Love the start of this idea. Is this from the HTML, or from the Solevision stuff? There's a lot we can track once we start reading the Solevision data.

All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e.

All the data is also taken from the Solevision files.
marcmoustache
08-05-2007, 02:05 AM
All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e.

All the data is also taken from the Solevision files.

Have you cracked the solevision files then??
primelord
08-05-2007, 11:05 AM
Have you cracked the solevision files then??

The vast majority of the files have been cracked, yes.
marcmoustache
08-05-2007, 03:33 PM
The vast majority of the files have been cracked, yes.

Are they sharable (is that a word?)? Would be great to see that data!!
primelord
08-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Are they sharable (is that a word?)? Would be great to see that data!!

I am about 70% done with a utility for the public to read those files.
marcmoustache
08-06-2007, 12:59 AM
Nice, thanks in advance!
marcmoustache
08-29-2007, 08:27 AM
I am about 70% done with a utility for the public to read those files.

Don't suppose you're any closer to finishing? Can any of us help?
primelord
10-05-2007, 11:58 AM
Updated with stats from 6.1:

http://www.fof-research.com/runinfo61.php
http://www.fof-research.com/passinfo61.php
Nogram
10-05-2007, 09:49 PM
So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram
RedKingGold
10-06-2007, 07:48 AM
So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram

Wouldn't go that far, but it is nice to see the short pass have more of an effect.
RedKingGold
10-06-2007, 07:49 AM
BTW, thanks again to Plord for taking the time to not only put this information together, but put it out into the community.
Nogram
11-12-2007, 06:01 PM
Primelord,

I don't mean to be rude, or impatient, but I am wondering how progress on this is going....

If there is any testing or results validation I could do to help, please let me know.

Thank you!

Nogram
primelord
11-12-2007, 07:28 PM
eh progress is going about as well as it is on the rest of my utilities. At the moment I am pretty close to finishing the next version of change tracker. So that is at the moment my main focus, although I have stalled a bit on it as well.

In the queue after that I think is going to be the automated testing tool. So I would say at the moment this is 3rd on my list. The completion of these things is all about my personal motivation to get them done. I get into moods where I want to code and I make progress. Unfortunately after doing similar tasks all day at work, I have a hard time being motivated ebough to continue doing more on my own time. *shurg*
Synovia
12-04-2007, 10:48 AM
So long passes are out, short passes are in, and your running game is not as good as before. Interesting.

Nogram

Not necessarily. The data is pulled from MP leagues, and MP players have known/believed for a while that long passing was more effective. MP players are more likely to be playing deep zones, etc.

Short passing is most likely more effective, but the data is probably being skewed by defenses playing to stop the long pass. More balanced gameplans are probably the way to go.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 10:51 AM
No. The 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP.
Synovia
12-04-2007, 02:31 PM
No. The 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP.

Is that the case? If so, my bad. I don't see Primelord stating anything other than that its pulled from MP in the first post in the thread.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 02:41 PM
Is that the case?
Didn't I say that it was? I'm not sure how to be more explicit than "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP."
gstelmack
12-04-2007, 03:13 PM
Didn't I say that it was? I'm not sure how to be more explicit than "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP."

By adding the missing "because I'm the one that pulled it for him" bit...
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 03:41 PM
By adding the missing "because I'm the one that pulled it for him" bit...

Greg, I can't PROVE that I pulled the data for him, therefore I must be lying about it. *shurg*
Synovia
12-04-2007, 03:50 PM
Greg, I can't PROVE that I pulled the data for him, therefore I must be lying about it. *shurg*

No, and I wasn't saying you were lying, nor was Greg. As Greg said, no one had any idea that you had anything to do with the data.



Seeing how the data is linked by primelord, and he said the data is from MP, the natural assumption is that it's primelord's data, and from MP. I had NO WAY to know that it was your data, nor did Greg.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 03:55 PM
No, and I wasn't saying you were lying, nor was Greg. As Greg said, no one had any idea that you had anything to do with the data.



Seeing how the data is linked by primelord, and he said the data is from MP, the natural assumption is that it's primelord's data, and from MP. I had NO WAY to know that it was your data, nor did Greg.

So Greg just *guessed* that it was my data.




Got it.
Synovia
12-04-2007, 04:05 PM
So Greg just *guessed* that it was my data.

Got it.


I'm not Greg, and I won't speak for him. I don't understand how you expected ME to guess that its your data, and not Primelord's, based on the content of this thread.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 04:09 PM
I'm not Greg, and I won't speak for him. I don't understand how you expected ME to guess that its your data, and not Primelord's, based on the content of this thread.
I didn't expect you to guess that it's my data. Based on your history, I guess I should not have expected "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP" to be definitive and absolute enough, I reckon.
Synovia
12-04-2007, 04:25 PM
I guess I should not have expected "the 6.1 data is pulled purely from SP" to be definitive and absolute enough, I reckon.



No, not when Primelord posted it and said "All plays are taken from MP leagues and they are all 2k7 6.0e." and then posted "Updated with stats from 6.1" with absolutely no mention of SP.

Should I just ignore everything he posted because you said something different, and gave absolutely no hint as to why it was so?



I made a post basically stating to take any MP data with a grain of salt, because players are gameplanning based on certain assumptions. My post was clearly not relevant to the subject at hand, but I had no way to know that at the time.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 04:27 PM
Should I just ignore everything he posted because you said something different, and gave absolutely no hint as to why it was so?
Unless you think I'd tell a bald-faced lie for no reason, sure. ;)
Synovia
12-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Unless you think I'd tell a bald-faced lie for no reason, sure. ;)


Thats why I asked if you were correct; I was looking for clarification. You proceeded to get all defensive.


Now, lets move on. Interesting note there, is it seems really clear in the running numbers that down/distance is somewhat of a problem. W/F helps, but the success rate in Goal Line, etc, is still rather low. It seems to me that throwing on 3rd and short might not be a bad idea.
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 05:31 PM
Thats why I asked if you were correct; I was looking for clarification. You proceeded to get all defensive.Nah. Just ask my detractors. I'd have to think I was wrong to actually get defensive. :D

Now, lets move on. Interesting note there, is it seems really clear in the running numbers that down/distance is somewhat of a problem. W/F helps, but the success rate in Goal Line, etc, is still rather low. It seems to me that throwing on 3rd and short might not be a bad idea.
I suspect that the GL numbers are skewed due to facing aggressive run a lot more than any other
tarcone
12-04-2007, 05:41 PM
Based on yards per carry/pass, it seems that a 2 TE set is best to pass out of and wrost to run out of. I thought that would be the other way around.
Interesting
Ben E Lou
12-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Based on yards per carry/pass, it seems that a 2 TE set is best to pass out of and wrost to run out of. I thought that would be the other way around.
Interesting

Identical to the previous thing. Defensive expectation.
Synovia
12-05-2007, 08:32 AM
Identical to the previous thing. Defensive expectation.
Right, which is why it may be better to come out in 3rd and 1 and throw the ball. You're almost always going to get run/aggressive run in that situation, so some 3-wide set and short passing may be a good idea. I still don't know if running on 3rd and long is a good idea though...you'll bust a lot of 8 yard runs, but those are useless when its 3rd and 13.
Yoda
08-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Any chance something like this can be revived?
boberot
08-13-2010, 09:47 AM
Any chance something like this can be revived?

What, a squabble between Ben and a newer board member?
I'm pretty sure.

:D
Yoda
08-13-2010, 10:29 AM
hehe

While as entertaining as that might be, no.

The information the data mining provided was good stuff.
Erik Holland
08-15-2010, 05:59 AM
The links to the data doesn't work any more does it?
Yoda
08-15-2010, 07:16 AM
No, they haven't for a while.
primelord
08-17-2010, 03:04 PM
Any chance something like this can be revived?


Anything is possible.
Kodos
08-17-2010, 03:12 PM
That's what Debbie Gibson taught us.
Yoda
08-17-2010, 03:18 PM
Anything is possible.

Is there anything I can do to help the process along?
primelord
08-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Is there anything I can do to help the process along?

Got any money?
Yoda
08-17-2010, 03:39 PM
Got any money?

Not much atm. Dragon*Con is expensive, but a little.
primelord
08-17-2010, 03:41 PM
Not much atm. Dragon*Con is expensive, but a little.

Hmm..... got any sandwiches?
primelord
08-17-2010, 03:48 PM
or old porn magazines? Anything pre 1982 will do.
Yoda
08-17-2010, 03:58 PM
nah, no porn, that is what the internet is for.

But if you live in/close to Georgia, I'll fix ya a snadwich or 12... or a steak dinner.
Yoda
08-17-2010, 03:59 PM
Actually, about to go out and get Five Guys Burger and Fries for dinner. You're welcome to come along. If you live close to Woodstock, GA that is.
cuervo72
08-17-2010, 04:12 PM
or old porn magazines? Anything pre 1982 will do.

Dang, if you would have told me this in 1997 or so...
primelord
08-17-2010, 04:29 PM
Actually, about to go out and get Five Guys Burger and Fries for dinner. You're welcome to come along. If you live close to Woodstock, GA that is.

I do like Five Guys........

Ben is sending me a bunch of data tonight. I'll look into fixing those screens.
Ben E Lou
08-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Rick, do you use postseason and/or preseason for this? The way I'm creating the data, it should be fine to do so, but I'm just looking for clarification. I want to make sure that I get you at least 10,000 game logs.
Ben E Lou
08-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Data sent in a way that gets rid of the situational biases present in the last data. (I'm pretty sure we won't see things like 2-TE putting up the best passing numbers now, in other words. This should be much more of an apples to apples comparison.)
Yoda
08-17-2010, 09:07 PM
Thanks :D I am glad I asked....

And anytime you are out this way, drop me a line, dinner is on me.
primelord
08-17-2010, 09:54 PM
Data sent in a way that gets rid of the situational biases present in the last data. (I'm pretty sure we won't see things like 2-TE putting up the best passing numbers now, in other words. This should be much more of an apples to apples comparison.)

Do you want me to ignore Pre and Post season?
Ben E Lou
08-18-2010, 03:24 AM
Whatever you think is best there. I'd tend to ignore preseason but use postseason.
MalcPow
08-18-2010, 12:51 PM
Thanks overlord
merry
08-18-2010, 03:57 PM
Hi,
Has anyone done this kind of data mining with the 6.3b patch?
Thank you,
Merry
MalcPow
08-18-2010, 04:03 PM
But why male models?
primelord
08-18-2010, 05:50 PM
Hi,
Has anyone done this kind of data mining with the 6.3b patch?
Thank you,
Merry

Ben E Lou has done EXTENSIVE data mining with the 6.3b patch. He is a little reluctant to just give it out to anyone though. He wants to know you have earned it. PM for his e-mail addy, and home and cell numbers and I'll get you in touch with him.

Thanks,
Overload
Ben E Lou
08-18-2010, 07:25 PM
overlard is a poopyhead
Yoda
08-27-2010, 11:31 PM
How is this coming along?

I am really looking forward to seeing the results
Dutch
08-28-2010, 04:40 AM
Or just get a good quarterback and don't worry about it. :)
Kobeck
09-30-2010, 02:57 PM
"need some targets too go along with said QB" - Albert Schwartz IFLs Fresno Warthogs QB
Yoda
07-19-2011, 04:51 PM
Those Five Guys burgers are mighty cold....

just saying ;)
gstelmack
07-20-2011, 08:46 AM
Ben promised to run a 40-year league and run GameplanAnalyzer on it, but so far he's gone all primelord on that...
Ben E Lou
07-20-2011, 09:53 AM
Actually the issue is that the league in question is on my old machine, which hasn't been connected to the interwebs for a few weeks now. I will be moving files from it to the laptop this weekend, and I'll run Gameplan Analyzer and post whatever results seem relevant then.
Yoda
07-20-2011, 11:29 AM
I am still waiting for eLicense to get back with me about freeing up one of my 3 licenses that got fried when my RAID died.
primelord
08-05-2011, 09:08 PM
Ben promised to run a 40-year league and run GameplanAnalyzer on it, but so far he's gone all primelord on that...

People should go all primelord more often, they wouldn't go back.