NFL Jersey Number Restrictions - Change?

[korme]

Randy Moss is sporting #6 for the Pats right now. I know in years past, the restriction changed in which NFL receivers could wear 10-19 or 80-89 as opposed to 10-19 was only an option if 80-89 was filled up (the famous Keyshawn Johnson incident when he went to the Bucs), is the rule allowing 1-9 for receivers now as well?

Or is it my sneaking suspicion that only because it is the preseason are receivers wearing single digit numbers, and when the regular season begins all those doing so will be required to make the switch to an appropriate number?

[Draft Dodger]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/07/moss_to_81.html

[Logan]

Well that was fast.

[korme]

It WAS my sneaking suspicion!

[Castlerock]

Moss is number 81. He may have been #6 for a short time until a valid number was available but the rules have not changed (at least as far a reciever wearing number 6).

[cthomer5000]

Anything goes in preseason basically. I remember Brian Cox wearing 0 for the Patriots one preaseason.

Also, Keyshawn got the #19 with the Jets because he was late to sign and as you said, all the 80s were taken. They just ran with it after his jerseys sold so well.

I do believe he got some sort of special ruling to use it with the Bucs, which ultimately led to the rule change loosening up which numbers wr could use.

[korme]

Anything goes in preseason basically. I remember Brian Cox wearing 0 for the Patriots one preaseason.

Also, Keyshawn got the #19 with the Jets because he was late to sign and as you said, all the 80s were taken. They just ran with it after his jerseys sold so well.

I do believe he got some sort of special ruling to use it with the Bucs, which ultimately led to the rule change loosening up which numbers wr could use.

I could have sworn he had something in his clause with the Bucs where they signed a bunch of nobodies to fill up the 80s and promptly released the nobodies after Keyshawn was issued 19.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think I saw a defensive back for Seattle wearing #6 last night. That had me wondering if DBs and (assumedly) WRs could start wearing single digits, but I see that that is not the case. If I had control over an NFL team, I would send a rookie quarterback out wearing #73 or something similar in the preseason just to screw around.

[Doug5984]

I think the rule is now you can keep the # you are drafted into the league with. Maybe it's the keyshawn rule. The reason I say this is because Devin Hester is now a WR, but still wearing his 23.

edit to add: I could be completely 100% wrong, but i think i read that on another message board

[st.cronin]

I hate these rules, although I do understand the reason.

[MikeVic]

edit to add: I could be completely 100% wrong, but i think i read that on another message board

Another message board?? Tisk.

[Surtt]

I think the rule is now you can keep the # you are drafted into the league with. Maybe it's the keyshawn rule. The reason I say this is because Devin Hester is now a WR, but still wearing his 23.

edit to add: I could be completely 100% wrong, but i think i read that on another message board

Wasn't there a big stink last year because Reggie Bush wanted to keep his 5 and wasn't allowed?

[Pumpy Tudors]

The Bears can get around Devin Hester wearing #23. They can just list him as a running back.

[st.cronin]

The Bears can get around Devin Hester wearing #23. They can just list him as a running back.

Using that logic, why couldn't the Saints just list Bush as a quarterback, or a punter?

[Doug5984]

Wasn't there a big stink last year because Reggie Bush wanted to keep his 5 and wasn't allowed?

It wasn't really a big stink, he asked to get # 5, they said no, so he went with 25. I think the fans cared a lot more than he did.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Using that logic, why couldn't the Saints just list Bush as a quarterback, or a punter?
I would guess that Bush is no longer an eligible receiver if he is listed at one of those positions. He'd have to report to the referee on every play.

Edit: Thinking about it, though, teams sometimes run trick plays where a quarterback goes out and catches a pass from a receiver. So I dunno.

[st.cronin]

I would guess that Bush is no longer an eligible receiver if he is listed at one of those positions. He'd have to report to the referee on every play.

You might be right, but I thought the quarterback WAS an eligible receiver?

[Pumpy Tudors]

You might be right, but I thought the quarterback WAS an eligible receiver?
Yep, that occurred to me a bit later. The uniform number is connected with a player's "primary position." I wonder if a referee has the ability to make a judgment call on that. Suppose that Reggie Bush is listed as a quarterback and wears #5. If he isn't lined up under center for 95% of his plays, can the referee make a call on that, during or even after the game? What if the Saints called Bush a punter but he never punts? Who determines whether that's his "primary position" or not? Someone with the league - an on-field official or someone in the office - would have to be able to make that call, right?

[st.cronin]

Tangential question: I don't really understand the rule, or the point of the rule, but what would happen if the league did away with the eligible/ineligible rule?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Dola

In the case of Devin Hester, there's really no functional difference between a running back and a wide receiver. Additionally, if Hester lines up as a flanker, he's technically a back, as he's lined up in the backfield. A quarterback and a kicker, however, have expected duties on the field (passing and kicking, obviously) that are not normally handled by any other position. Assuming that a league official can enforce the uniform numbers at some point, that'd be my guess as to why the Saints couldn't list Reggie Bush as a QB or kicker/punter.

[larrymcg421]

Tangential question: I don't really understand the rule, or the point of the rule, but what would happen if the league did away with the eligible/ineligible rule?

Joey Harrington won't know whether he's throwing an INT to a DB, LB, or DT.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Tangential question: I don't really understand the rule, or the point of the rule, but what would happen if the league did away with the eligible/ineligible rule?
All hell would break loose as offensive linemen run down the field immediately after a snap. :D

[rkmsuf]

All hell would break loose as offensive linemen run down the field immediately after a snap. :D

hilarity would ensue

[MikeVic]

hilarity would ensue

Cue that British Benny Hill music.

[rkmsuf]

Cue that British Benny Hill music.

I heard in Maximum Football you can customize the eligiblity rules and even turn them off.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I heard in Maximum Football you can customize the eligiblity rules and even turn them off.
Yawn. Call me when you can turn the linemen off.

[MikeVic]

I heard in Maximum Football you can customize the eligiblity rules and even turn them off.

Well then, I have to get a copy of that game and make a video.

[MikeVic]

Yawn. Call me when you can turn the linemen off.

But then there's no rules!

[Surtt]

It wasn't really a big stink, he asked to get # 5, they said no, so he went with 25. I think the fans cared a lot more than he did.


Well it was big enough to have the NFL Rules Committee look at it and national sports writers have columns devoted to it. I know it was all part of the "Reggie Bush arrives in Now Orleans" hoopla and "stink" was probably the wrong word for it.


The NFL Competition Committee rejected the request by Bush and other players to change its uniform numbering system for the 2006 season

After two 2½-hour conference calls, the committee informed NFL owners Tuesday not to change the numbering system.


NFL won't change numbering system for Bush
By John Clayton
hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2455586


NFL should allow Bush to wear his favorite number
by Peter King
hxxp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/05/08/bush.number/index.html

[nilodor]

Another message board?? Tisk.

Sportdigs isn't just any other message board. Sheesh.

[dervack]

Yawn. Call me when you can turn the linemen off.
Show them a naked picture of Rosie O' Donnell

[saldana]

Using that logic, why couldn't the Saints just list Bush as a quarterback, or a punter?

because of roster rules.

only 3 quarterbacks per game, and they have to be ranked prior to the start of the game. unless the #1QB is hurt, you cant bring in your #2QB....if you do, the #1 cant come back into the game.

for punters, i think you can only have 1, so if bush got hurt, who would punt?

[Aylmar]

because of roster rules.

only 3 quarterbacks per game, and they have to be ranked prior to the start of the game. unless the #1QB is hurt, you cant bring in your #2QB....if you do, the #1 cant come back into the game.

Actually, substitutions for the first and second string QB are unlimited. The only NFL substitution restriction is with the third (or emergency) QB. Since 1995, the third QB can only enter the game in the fourth quarter (barring injury to the two guys on the depth chart in front of him). If he enters the game before the fourth quarter, the other two guys are barred from reentering the game. If the third QB enters the game in the fourth, however, the other two guys can return if they are able...

I wanted to quote the rule in the NFL rules digest, but this one isn't listed. The best I can find are two or three sites that make reference to the adoption of the fourth quarter rule for the third quarterback in 1995 and this Chicago Sports blurb from Jerry Markbreit (from 2004):

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-041015jerrymarkbreitsanswers,1,5707443.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines

[Huckleberry]

Since 1995, the third QB can only enter the game in the fourth quarter (barring injury to the two guys on the depth chart in front of him). If he enters the game before the fourth quarter, the other two guys are barred from reentering the game. If the third QB enters the game in the fourth, however, the other two guys can return if they are able...

Still waiting for the starter to suffer turf toe and the backup to sprain a finger on his non-throwing hand and then the emergency QB to break his leg all in the first three quarters. What then? ;)

[cuervo72]

They call Brian Mitchell.

[MikeVic]

Still waiting for the starter to suffer turf toe and the backup to sprain a finger on his non-throwing hand and then the emergency QB to break his leg all in the first three quarters. What then? ;)

The game is cancelled. And if this results in a team involved in the game to be one game in or out of the playoffs, they will re-play the game at a date set by the NFL commish.

[RendeR]

THen generally the punter is the 4th emergency emergency-oh shit we're fucked quarterback.

[korme]

Using that logic, why couldn't the Saints just list Bush as a quarterback, or a punter?

Because, using that logic (with Hester), he couldn't be an eligible receiver downfield.

[cthomer5000]

Actually, substitutions for the first and second string QB are unlimited. The only NFL substitution restriction is with the third (or emergency) QB. Since 1995, the third QB can only enter the game in the fourth quarter (barring injury to the two guys on the depth chart in front of him). If he enters the game before the fourth quarter, the other two guys are barred from reentering the game. If the third QB enters the game in the fourth, however, the other two guys can return if they are able...

I wanted to quote the rule in the NFL rules digest, but this one isn't listed. The best I can find are two or three sites that make reference to the adoption of the fourth quarter rule for the third quarterback in 1995 and this Chicago Sports blurb from Jerry Markbreit (from 2004):

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-041015jerrymarkbreitsanswers,1,5707443.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines


Im pretty sure you're almost right on everything. The only thing I believe you have wrong is that if the 3rd QB comes in, the 1 and 2 CAN re-enter the game, but not BEFORE the 4th quarter. So once QB3 is in the game, 1 and 2 cant play again before the 4th quarter.

[cthomer5000]

dola. I remember this rule biting the NY Jets in the ass the game that VInny Testaverde went down with the torn Achilles on opening day.

To save a roster spot, TOm Tupa was listed as the 2nd QB, rather than a punter... so they were forced to use TUpa as QB until the 4th quarter, otherwise they would also be removing their punter from the game by putting QB3 (Ray Lucas? i cant remember) into the game.

[korme]

Why the fuck didn't they list Tom Tupa as their #3? He couldn't punt unless he was a #1 or #2, is that correct?

[cthomer5000]

Why the fuck didn't they list Tom Tupa as their #3? He couldn't punt unless he was a #1 or #2, is that correct?

Correct. If he was listed at #3, the first time he came into punt he would have been the emergency QB and would have been forced playing QB untilt he 4th. If they listed him as #2, they could have him punt and save a roster spot.

It wasn't that ridiculous overall, i mean the guy was an NFL QB before he was an NFL punter. But I assume he'd barely been taking snaps at QB... and he was pretty blech when forced to play QB all game.

[cthomer5000]

Anyway the specific point of that aside about the opening day collapse of the Jets 1999 season was that in the 4th quarter they brought in whoever the 2nd QB was at the time (I'm growing in certainty that it was Rutgers alum Ray Lucas).

So that's where my knowledge of the "QBs 1 and 2 can't return until he 4th quarter" part of that rule comes from.

[Aylmar]

Anyway the specific point of that aside about the opening day collapse of the Jets 1999 season was that in the 4th quarter they brought in whoever the 2nd QB was at the time (I'm growing in certainty that it was Rutgers alum Ray Lucas).

So that's where my knowledge of the "QBs 1 and 2 can't return until he 4th quarter" part of that rule comes from.

I agree. I had that part wrong...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Per former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit:

Each team is allowed to dress 45 players for each game, plus, a 46th man, providing he is designated as the third quarterback only. If this third quarterback enters the game during the first, second or third quarter, the first and second string quarterbacks are not allowed to return for the rest of the game. If the third quarterback enters during the fourth quarter, the other two quarterbacks may return to the game. This is a special rule that was put in about 10 years ago, and gives each team an insurance policy for quarterback injury.

Source: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-041015jerrymarkbreitsanswers,1,5707443.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines

The article is from 2004, but I think the rule has pretty much been like this for ages.

Edit to add: Well, duh on my part. His last sentence says that the rule was put in about 10 years prior, so it's definitely been around a while.

[larrymcg421]

What happens if the 3rd QB gets injured?

[Pumpy Tudors]

What happens if the 3rd QB gets injured?
Well, somebody's got to play quarterback. I guess it could be any other active player on the roster. In fact, I would guess that you could have all 45 of your active players take a snap during a game, and you won't lose your starter and backup. It's just when that third "emergency" quarterback (who is technically not on the active roster) enters the game that you would lose the first two.

[Surtt]

Does anyone know the reason for this rule?
It seems sort of strange to me.

[saldana]

Actually, substitutions for the first and second string QB are unlimited. The only NFL substitution restriction is with the third (or emergency) QB. Since 1995, the third QB can only enter the game in the fourth quarter (barring injury to the two guys on the depth chart in front of him). If he enters the game before the fourth quarter, the other two guys are barred from reentering the game. If the third QB enters the game in the fourth, however, the other two guys can return if they are able...

I wanted to quote the rule in the NFL rules digest, but this one isn't listed. The best I can find are two or three sites that make reference to the adoption of the fourth quarter rule for the third quarterback in 1995 and this Chicago Sports blurb from Jerry Markbreit (from 2004):

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-041015jerrymarkbreitsanswers,1,5707443.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines


i knew it was something like that, i was just off on the numbering.

[larrymcg421]

So if you're 1st QB goes out and then your 2nd QB gets banged up, it'd probably be a good idea to put some random player in just to handoff while your 2nd QB recovers.

[CU Tiger]

BUT all the sceenarios only start IF you dress 46 and call 1 the emrgency QB.
You can dress 45 and play 44 different QBs if ya want, as long as they report off number to the ref

[st.cronin]

Invisible post?

[Ryan S]

Does anyone know the reason for this rule?
It seems sort of strange to me.

It makes sense to me.

If there are no restrictions on the third QB, the majority teams will list a non QB as the third QB and use the position as an extra spot on the roster.

This rule forces teams to use three guys who can play the position or they will suffer.