How is this legal?

[EagleFan]

This may be a long post so I apologize in advance.

Early last year the company I work for hired a new person to run our division. He was an Indian who came from a different industry and no experience in our industry. That was no big deal as industry experience may not be the most important requirement in that position.

He shortly brought in two employees in what was referred to as "consulting". Soon those two were given positions above our director running both halves of our division. There were no openings for these positions and this did not sit well with our director.

These two both worked out of Atlanta from their homes. There was an attempt to create an office in Atlanta but the board of directors shot it down as there is nothing in that area in Casino Gaming that would justify an office there.

Next up was opening an office in India which would eventually become two offices.

During the opening of the India offices we would be told ot 3 more employees starting in Atlanta (all Indians). Again there was no posted opening. It seems that during the openings in India suddenly we also had an office in Atlanta, still no idea how that got approved as it was shot down by the board.

Now without any further job postings we have about 15 people in that office and they are ALL Indian.

My boss has recently interviewed several people and was ready to make an offer to one of the people when he was told hiring is frozen. Two days later he would get a call from his boss to say that someone would be starting ehre soon (another Indian). This has been followed by news of 2 more Indians to be starting in Atlanta. All while my boss was told that we are in a hiring freeze (I guess that's a hiring or Americans hiring freeze).

During all of this we have lost (each were pushed to the limit and could take no more):
3 directors - over 70 years of combined experience in casino gaming
3 managers - over 50 years of combined experience in casino gaming
5 senior developers - over 60 years of combined experience in casino gaming


The total experience in casino gaming from all of those hired in the Atlanta office and the new Indians in our office is a nice round number: 0


How can this type of hiring practice be legal?


This isn't meant to be anti-Indian. In a couple trips over to India I have made several new friends and have no problem with anyone there on a person to person level (except for the guy who ran one of the office there but has since been replaced as he would talk to everyone on the team over there like they were dirt).

I had no idea that we had as many people in Atlanta as we do until a recent trip to the office. I was expecting a small office with the 5 people that I knew of down there and was shocked to see a medium size office with triple the amount of people I was expecting.

There are people that I know in the industry who have asked me if we have openings and every time I ask I get told no openings. Only later to hear of another hiring.


Okay, I'll get down off my soap box for now.

[Schmidty]

I think your board needs to create another division, and hire a cowboy to run it. That'll learn them in'juns.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Obviously someone is near the top making the hiring decisions and paying these people. My guess is you are wondering how this works with immigration. There is of course the chance that these employees are Americans of Indian descent or have green cards through family relationships/marriage etc. If not, they would have to come over on a visa, most likely an H1-B visa.

The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa category in the United States under the Immigration & Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to seek temporary help from skilled foreigners who have the equivalent U.S. Bachelor's Degree education. H-1B employees are employed temporarily in a job category that is considered by the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services to be a "specialty occupation". A specialty occupation is one that requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. For example, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts may be considered to be specialty occupations.

The H-1B visa program is controversial. Advocates say the program (and similar ones operated by other technologically-advanced countries) helps the host country maintain its technological as well as economic superiority by providing a steady flow of highly skilled professionals who may be in short supply domestically. It also provides an incentive for companies not to move their operations abroad. Recent data suggests, that this intent is not the guaranteed outcome.

The H-1B program has been criticized for displacing substantial numbers of experienced American citizen technical professionals or lowering wages enough to encourage them to abandon volatile careers in targeted fields such as computer technology. Although there are differing views on whether or not the H-1B visa is good for the U.S. economy, economist Milton Friedman has called the program a form of subsidy.[6]. Currently the number of H-1B visas issued per year is limited to 65,000 with an additional 20,000 for those with U.S. graduate degrees and no limit for universities and non-profit and government research laboratories.

Other critics have argued that H-1B programs are distorting market forces within the U.S. by incentivising Indian nationals to flood U.S. graduate schools to earn Advanced degrees solely for the purpose of obtaining work visas, and at the same time de-incentivising U.S. citizens from earning technical degrees or continuing on to earn graduate degrees due to applicant pool flooding. For instance, at the undergraduate level, US-born engineering students constitute upwards of 90-95% of the student population, with a student pool that is larger than the number of foreign born nationals who apply to engineering graduate schools to earn advanced degrees. Yet, upwards of 50% of the advanced degrees conferred in technology are to foreign-born nationals.

[I cribbed most of this from wikipedia, but it is fairly accurate from what I recall with my experience that touched on this]

In sum, it's a temporary worker program for highly skilled workers in areas of need, which looks like it includes the jobs you are talking about. Temporary meaning as long as 6 years. My recollection however is that the workers still need to be paid the "prevailing wage" in the industry, specifically to prevent bringing in nationals at low wages to replace American workers. Often too, the annual limit on H1-Bs is exhausted halfway through the year. Because of this, the effect in most industries in negligible, but in certain industries, like computer tech it can have big impact. I know that Microsoft has lobbied often for an increase in the H1-B quotas because they could not find enough Americans to fill the jobs they wanted.

While you may want to blame the government, my first level of blame would go to your employer.

[EagleFan]

Sorry, I didn't add that it's not the fact that they are Indians or aren;t here legally but the fact that they are ALL Indians. This has gone beyond coincidence and seems to be preferential treatment.

[lighthousekeeper]

Welcome to Bollywood.

[cody8200]

I don't see a problem with them all being Indian but I do see a problem with the jobs not being listed to everyone. I know in many companies it is a requirement that they list all jobs that are available in house first and then they are required to interview a certain number of people. It sounds like what is going on here is that employees in a higher up position are just hiring their friends (which all happen to be Indian). In which case it does sound like something needs to be done. Although, I don't know what.

[Icy]

A bit off topic... so do you work for an online casino company? just curious as i work a lot with casino companies (advertising).

The trend i saw with all the legal troubles of the casino industry in USA, is that a lot of casino companies moved their offices to Israel (and always asked myself why Israel as casinos are not legal there either).

[ISiddiqui]

You may want to call up the EEOC. The fact that the jobs weren't posted and they were all given to Indians (who have no experience in the industry) coupled with the fact that your director was told there was a "hiring freeze" may indicate racial discrimination that the EEOC might be interested in.

[EagleFan]

A bit off topic... so do you work for an online casino company? just curious as i work a lot with casino companies (advertising).

The trend i saw with all the legal troubles of the casino industry in USA, is that a lot of casino companies moved their offices to Israel (and always asked myself why Israel as casinos are not legal there either).

Not an online casino. We do gaming hardware and software for actual casinos.

[Logan]

Welcome to Bollywood.

QOTM. Bravo.

[Pumpy Tudors]

QOTM. Bravo.
+1

[miked]

Welcome to Bollywood.

Thief!

Anywho, these guys are probably my neighbors. There is a huge Indian area just down the street from me and when I took MARTA, that's all it was. I have nothing to add except that your company may be in violation of equal opportunity stuff. When I had to hire somebody for my lab, I had all this paperwork to fill out and show where postings were made, how I selected interviewees, and the gender/race makeup of everyone interviewed. It was a tedious process considering I was hiring a highly skilled (PhD) worker and was likely not to get many applications.

[Young Drachma]

Welcome to Bollywood.

Niice.

[Young Drachma]

A bit off topic... so do you work for an online casino company? just curious as i work a lot with casino companies (advertising).

The trend i saw with all the legal troubles of the casino industry in USA, is that a lot of casino companies moved their offices to Israel (and always asked myself why Israel as casinos are not legal there either).

Less regulation? Dual citizens, maybe?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think you put the most important phrase of the whole post near the beginning.
Early last year the company I work for hired a new person to run our division.

Although there could be some bits of state or federal employment law that could fail to have some i's dotted or t's crossed, most of the stuff you're describing sounds to me as though it's sanctioned by the ownership otherwise it wouldn't be happening. I mean, I don't think too many people could just randomly open an office in another city without some sort of approval from the top.

It's not unusual in any business to see new bosses putting people of their choosing into positions, only somewhat more unusual to see positions magically appear if they have people they want to bring on board for whatever reason.

Regardless of the detailed legality of the hiring process involved in this case, since this appears to be sanctioned by management whether explicitly or simply by their acceptance of it, my guess is your odds of doing diddly squat about it (at least that involves you remaining employed) are virtually zero.

[DaddyTorgo]

You may want to call up the EEOC. The fact that the jobs weren't posted and they were all given to Indians (who have no experience in the industry) coupled with the fact that your director was told there was a "hiring freeze" may indicate racial discrimination that the EEOC might be interested in.

QFT. Oh and I would imagine it wouldn't hurt to discretely float your resume if you don't see something changing.

[flere-imsaho]

I can't add a lot to what Vinatieri said (explanation of H1-Bs) or JiMGA said (about the likely cause behind this), but I agree with both. Just a clarification on "prevailing wage" as it relates to H1-Bs: in my experience employers can still, and do quite often, pay H1-Bs a lot less than the Americans they're replacing due to the variances in "prevailing wage". So despite what H1-B defenders say, it's still very popular from a cost savings standpoint.

I'd imagine that's what's happened here. The new director has convinced the board (or possibly the new director's sponsor on the board has convinced the board) that this area of work can be done just as well, and cheaper, by a group of Indians they can recruit, and the board is behind this. Now, they could get dinged by the EEOC if they didn't do their due diligence, but I'm not sure what the penalties are. If they're not considerable, the board might view this as just the "cost of doing business". Or it's possible they've found a way to finagle qualifying for equal opportunity, which wouldn't surprise me.

+1

+2, Bravo! :D

[Crapshoot]

I can't add a lot to what Vinatieri said (explanation of H1-Bs) or JiMGA said (about the likely cause behind this), but I agree with both. Just a clarification on "prevailing wage" as it relates to H1-Bs: in my experience employers can still, and do quite often, pay H1-Bs a lot less than the Americans they're replacing due to the variances in "prevailing wage". So despite what H1-B defenders say, it's still very popular from a cost savings standpoint.


As someone here on a H1-B, I'll have to disagree about this. I've known a bunch of friends (Indians, Bulgarian, Chinese, Peruvian - pick one. :D) on H1B's, and not one of us is being paid less than our counterparts (we had about 60 young financial analysts - I'd say 10 were on H1-B's) - if anything, at my last job, we got paid more, since the company took care of all the legal costs and a trip out of the country for the visa stamping. To the man, every person I know took part in a regular job process and got the job, and then worried about the H1-B. By law, you have to advertise the job first at the salary, and prove that you meet prevailing wages. If anything, people like me help shore up social security, since I'm paying into the system without any chance of getting it out.

[MikeVic]

Are you sure they aren't all just related to the hiring guy, and all just happen to have big breasts? Err I mean just happen to be Indian?

[StarBuck]

You may want to call up the EEOC. The fact that the jobs weren't posted and they were all given to Indians (who have no experience in the industry) coupled with the fact that your director was told there was a "hiring freeze" may indicate racial discrimination that the EEOC might be interested in.

This is exactly what I was thinking. It's not right, give them a call.

[flere-imsaho]

As someone here on a H1-B, I'll have to disagree about this. I've known a bunch of friends (Indians, Bulgarian, Chinese, Peruvian - pick one. :D) on H1B's, and not one of us is being paid less than our counterparts

I'm glad to hear this. My experience is now about 3 years removed, so hopefully it's now out-of-date.

[spleen1015]

There is no doubt to me that the guy that was hired originally is purposely giving jobs to his fellow countrymen.

I would go to the HR department. Something seems fishy to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

To the man, every person I know took part in a regular job process and got the job, and then worried about the H1-B. By law, you have to advertise the job first at the salary, and prove that you meet prevailing wages.

and this is where the problem is here. these hires are apparently circumventing the normal hiring process

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Thank God for foreign workers. Without them coming here there would be no job growth for the government to brag about!

[Crapshoot]

Thank God for foreign workers. Without them coming here there would be no job growth for the government to brag about!

Yes, its clearly all our fault. :rolleyes: