Owning/operating a bar.

[Cringer]

Ok, so as I try to figure out what to do in my life now, something interesting has popped up and though it's nothing serious right now I would like to look into it some. One way or the other, I look to be working for myself sometime soon.

Down the street from me (2 blocks exactly) is a small bar. The lady who owns it is older, and has some family issues I guess, and is looking to sell it. She is thinking $175,000. I have no idea what the business is like during the week since I am not really ever home (and haven't noticed really when I am), but during the weekend it is pretty damn busy. The problem here is I would look to start to move towards a different clientele, something a little younger and more english speaking. :D

Anyways, was just wondering who here has ever had experience owning or running a small bar/pub? What kind of things could you tell me about is what I am interested in. Liquor licenses is a big thing which I have obviously never dealt with in the trucking world.

Even info from guys who have owned/run a small restuarant or other business that could give some info would be welcome. Thanks.

[Logan]

I don't really have anything useful to contribute, but some friends and I kicked around the idea. We ultimately stalled when we all realized that we couldn't put in the time to manage the place ourselves due to our full-time jobs. So you're one step ahead...

Major costs you need to look into, outside of the purchase price, is the liquor license and insurance. Forget about liquor...you'll clear so much on that even if you bought it at the local liquor store, the profit margin is so ridiculous.

[Cringer]

liquor license and insurance is definetly something I would need to find out about.

oh, and I didn't mention a name change would be in order. The Cubby Hole has always been real bad sounding to me. Anything with 'Hole' in the name just isn't good.

Thanks Logan, and yeah, this would be my full time job if I did it.

[Sgran]

Well, I never ran a bar myself, but there's this movie with Patrick Swayze that's pretty much a how-to manual for running a bar in Texas...

[Cringer]

Well, I never ran a bar myself, but there's this movie with Patrick Swayze that's pretty much a how-to manual for running a bar in Texas...

I'm pretty sure there are no monster trucks around my town. And I don't plan on sleeping in a barn.

[daedalus]

I'm pretty sure there are no monster trucks around my town. And I don't plan on sleeping in a barn.kelly lynch is decent motivation for barn sleeping.

[daedalus]

never quite "ran" one.

but, as mentioned, license and insurance is significant enough concern.

you also want to think about "entertainment" and how you want your bar to evolve. live entertainment, i believe, brings a different license. if you go for the pub feel and want to show sports on TV, your FCO [fire code occupancy or some such doodad] determines your price [for example, the place i work for will not be getting the NFL ticket this season as the FCO of 2000+ puts the price at just a shade under $19K]. as an aside, direcTV's pricing for public viewing for setanta and fox sports soccer are damn reasonable. i wish i had the clout to order it. pricing for various channels are on the business portion of the direcTV website.

i believe you will also be limited to who you can snag booze from. suppliers will come and flag you down. you can probably start with whoever they are currently using until more reps come knocking on your door. and, of course, there's establishing credit with those companies unless you can write out large enough checks to cover delivery [48-72 hours, i believe].

do you intend to do food? i don't know what the deal is with health code down your neck of the wood, but you would want to find out.

uhhh, what else? oh, you'd want to be careful about staff. you DON'T want to lose your license. and the fine can get expensive QUICK, if you get dinged.

hope you don't get discouraged, i'm just trying to point out things you'd probably want to look into ahead of time.

[Balldog]

There were two main bars in Findlay, several others, but one bartender left one of the main bars and bought one of the others. The guy is very popular, way to popular, but on opening night that bar went from originally having maybe 10 people on a Saturday night to roughly 350. Its been that way ever since, now there is just one main bar and several others.

Anyway, I've always thought about opening a bar as an investment but then I always think back to how bad he looks. The guy is mid-20s and he looked fine while he was bartender but he looks like he's about 50 now, due to all the hours and I'm sure stress.

[Lathum]

Cringer-

I was involved in new store opeining for TGI Fridays for 11 years. Getting into the bar buisness is tough.

As mentioned the first thing you need to think about is insurance because it will be more then you anticipate.

175,000 is a bargin for a liquor license in an established buisness but you need to find out if she owns the building or pays rent on it.

After that you would need to get in line with all the purveyors, beer reps, liquor salesmen, food reps, etc...

I don't have much time to go into detail about what else goes into it right now but it's alot, PM me if you have some specific questions, I have a wealth of knowledge on this subject.


btw the first thing to do would be get a good lawyer and accountant

[jackyl]

I do consulting work for bars and restaurants. While 175K is a pretty low asking cost, I'd be concerned about the status of her TABC permit and the building if its a dive. Do they sell liquor or just beer? Does it serve food? The health inspectors (though I don't know the Valley that well) might have oral complaints out and with new ownership will try to make you fix every little thing they let slide.

You might be looking at 40K in building improvements. Most people that run little hole-in-the-wall bars never put any money in the air conditioning, the flooring (if it's an old beer joint with wooden floors I'll bet you they're rotting), or the actual bar setup. Do they have soda guns? How old are the ice wells? Does it have a POS system to track sales or just a cash register?

We tell people that aren't experienced in this line of work to have available cash of twice the asking amount for operational costs, startup expenses (you mentioned you'd want to at least change the name), and incidentals.

Oh yeah, and changing your custiomer base will require a lot of time and effort in marketing and advertising, especially if the existing facility is a neighborhood bar (I'm assuming it is since Edinburg isn't too big and you haven't mentioned Pan Am). That's a lot of work to do yourself if you're going to be behind the bar from 4ish to 2AM every night, plus banking, accounting, and ordering.

[JeeberD]

TABC

Get to know ALL of their nit-picky rules and regulations. Break one and you can lose your liquor license and get tossed in jail. And trust me, they're some anal sons-a-bitches...

[WSUCougar]

Name = "Cringer's"

[jackyl]

Well, I never ran a bar myself, but there's this movie with Patrick Swayze that's pretty much a how-to manual for running a bar in Texas...

The Double Deuce was in southwest Missouri.

[Cringer]

Lots of good stuff guys.

jackyl, I already know the A/C in the place is on the crapper so that would need work. Checking out the condition of the rest of the building is a must, it has been around a good long while.

Not sure I would call it a neighborhood bar, but it's not really a club either. But it does have a small stage where bands play if I recall correctly, and if the noise levels can be handled I would be looking at having some local bands in when possible. Hell, if the noise level can't be handled, I would want guys who play accoustic.

No food in the place. I don't think there is now. Also, not sure how much of this is true but I thought I heard the place lost the right to sell liquor early this year, and was down to beer. Not sure if they got it back or not, or what the whole situation may have been there. I know business for them didn't change.

Again, lots of good stuff. Plenty of areas for me to head in here and start checking into. Thanks guys, I will PM if I need anything more I guess. :)

[st.cronin]

You should study up a bit on sales/marketing techniques, would be my advice. Running a bar is essentially a sales job.

[Cringer]

You should study up a bit on sales/marketing techniques, would be my advice. Running a bar is essentially a sales job.

Been seeing that pop up. Can't imagine this place has done a day of marketing in 20 years, but I see why its suggested.

I am thinking a sign, with the name of the business on the outside of the building, would be a good start. They don't have one now. :p

[st.cronin]

Been seeing that pop up. Can't imagine this place has done a day of marketing in 20 years, but I see why its suggested.

I am thinking a sign, with the name of the business on the outside of the building, would be a good start. They don't have one now. :p

Just to get you started, marketing and sales are two different things, both important. Marketing is what gets people to the door. Sales is what gets them to give you money. Running a bar, you have to figure out how to solve both those problems.

[Logan]

Maybe it's just because of all the bars I've been in, but I'd think if it was anything but a typical "everybody knows your name" neighborhood bar, the alcohol will sell itself.

Throw up a decent drink special a few nights a week (I say decent, where you knock a few bucks off high-priced drinks: red bull & vodkas, LI teas, Car Bombs, etc...drinks that will already make you a nice amount of money but will earn a reputation as "It's LI tea night at Cringer's bar...let's go there"; or Bud Light bottles for $3 when they're usually $4).

On a non weekend night, have a really good special, so when the few people that go out on a Wednesday night are deciding where to go, your place is easily the best option. My favorite college bar had a Tuesday special (Tuesday is actually a big night -- I'm guessing the same at most schools) of $2 well drinks (served in pint glasses) and $4 pitchers. Business had to be incredible those nights. A pint glass filled with ice, a couple shots of shitty rum, and a spray of coke must cost about $0.50.

[JeeberD]

All the marketing you need is your wife. I think she would be a great shot girl... ;)

[Cringer]

All the marketing you need is your wife. I think she would be a great shot girl... ;)

Do you think I would be able to talk her into threesomes with hot drunk chicks?:D

Ok, well I gotta go drive. Will try to get internet later on this weekend again. Not getting home until Friday or so. Makes checking into stuff like this a pain in the ass.

[bulletsponge]

The Double Deuce was in southwest Missouri.

yes, but were talking about the Double Deuche

[AZSpeechCoach]

oh, and I didn't mention a name change would be in order. The Cubby Hole has always been real bad sounding to me. Anything with 'Hole' in the name just isn't good.


You could go in with another member of the board and call it the Chubby Hole.


Wait, what? Nevermind.

Just call it Pumpy's Place and be done with it.

[DanGarion]

Just watch the TV show, "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" and you'll be set!

[JS19]

Not sure what your situation is, but when starting a new business like this, family is a huge help. Having family to work for pretty much nothing for the first few months or so will get things moving, profit wise. Also, with a bar, your bartenders will be cutting into your profit by handing out free drinks and not charging what they should.

It shouldn't be a problem asking the lady who owns it now to have a look at her books and discuss what she clears in a week.

[Neuqua]

That's funny Cringer, I'm actually looking to get myself involved in a bar as well. Still haven't found the proper location though.

[albionmoonlight]

Rule #1:

Sell COLD Beer.

http://www.chillrite32.com/html/about_us.html

[Loren]

umm we're not calling it Cringer's:rolleyes: kthanx... and look at you all "im looking into this" on the board..but I'm the one who brought it UP(no pun intended:mad: )and knocking me for wanting to buy it..oooK sir...
THEN offending me by saying we'd need a lawyer to look over the contract when im a REALTOR..contract's are what i do:rolleyes:
anywayssss...I see something like tryin to keep the current clients for the typical nights they go, while at the same time opening it up other nites for the younger crowd as the college is near by and I've mainly noticed a rise in SPORTS bars, to where knowing real estate they're going to start going down soon as there are now too many open, combined with one of the area's VFW's where a majority of younger ppl go for small shows is up ont he market to be sold and will most likely become a retail bldg, i think we could make it work..plus right now the owner only opens the place up on weekends when she CAN so we'd hafta do at least better...
he's got family support..I'm the one pushing this idea:(
p.s. I have boobs therefore there IS marketing

[st.cronin]

I have boobs

Pics pls k thx

[JeeberD]

All the marketing you need is your wife. I think she would be a great shot girl... ;)


p.s. I have boobs therefore there IS marketing

That idea has already been thrown out there for consideration...

[daedalus]

There were two main bars in Findlay, several others, but one bartender left one of the main bars and bought one of the others. The guy is very popular, way to popular, but on opening night that bar went from originally having maybe 10 people on a Saturday night to roughly 350. Its been that way ever since, now there is just one main bar and several others.this brings up a good point, by the way. certain bartenders BRING their own regulars. that's money.

the other thing to remember is to understand that there WILL be booze given away. that's just . . . life. understand, though, that it DOES bring business back. those regulars? yeah, they're hooked up. like a motherfucker. if there are other bars or restaurants nearby? you have a decent chance of having those workers coming by. so that's business. and they WILL get hooked up. so that's spending. it'll be one of those things you have to learn to live with. the only thing will be to keep it at reasonable amount (a "spill" tab typically . . . but that's closer to vince's territory than mine).

[DanGarion]

Rule #1:

Sell COLD Beer.

http://www.chillrite32.com/html/about_us.html

I love how the sign on their building is like TOTALLY FAKE!

[DanGarion]

Pics pls k thx


""

agreed

[Pumpy Tudors]

If you guys haven't seen Loren's boobs, you're seriously missing somethings special.

[JeeberD]

True

[Cringer]

Albion, thanks for the link, something to keep in mind since this bar currently has nothing on tap, and I would want that. And sorry if i pm'd you 10 times, i am on my phone and when i tried to replay my phone went nuts and sent msgs until my pm box was full, oops. And did anyone notice Loren didn't say no to a potential threesome? Woohoo. I didn't notice what she did say, but that stood out to me right away.

[MacroGuru]

LOL!

Well, good luck there...I have some news for you regarding one of our potential bosses....PM me when you get a chance if your interested.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Two words: Lesbian bar.

[Cringer]

Anyone have suggestions for the best way (in thier opinion) to go about getting funds for something like this? A small business loan through a bank, the government's SBA? Have looked at them a little bit, but had little time to dive into it too much right now. Any suggestions might be helpful.

As for the lesbian bar idea M, the areas gay/lesbian club is a few miles down from here, and much bigger then this place.