NFL Opening Day Kickoff: Saints v. Colts

[RedKingGold]

I want to bone Faith Hill.

That is all.

[VPI97]

Is it just me or does Jim Irsay remind anyone else of Chris Farley's Matt Foley character?

[RedKingGold]

Dola

John Melloncamp.....not so much

[RedKingGold]

Is it just me or does Jim Irsay remind anyone else of Chris Farley's Matt Foley character?

His dad reminded me Boris Yeltsen.

[Greyroofoo]

Looks like the Colts losing Jason David is really addition by Subtraction!

TD MARVIN HARRISON!

[RendeR]

HArrison? the NFL network typist must have hit the wrong thing or something, they're showing Wayne caught it for 27 and a TD?

[Logan]

That would've pissed me off as a Wayne owner.

[Eaglesfan27]

It was to Harrison. The Colts should torch this Saints' secondary today.

[RendeR]

OI and they're showing the score as 1-0....lol what sort of training do these people get anyway?


I'm stuck at work so I can't see the game other than the NFL gamecenter...

[Neuqua]

I have Wayne on my team, :(

[RendeR]

DOLA and this really sucks because I'll miss the majority of the Bengals Ravens game monday =(

[Eaglesfan27]

Brees just caught his own pass, but he couldn't quite get the 3 yards he needed for a first down (worth describing for those reading on the web.)

[miami_fan]

Looks like they are not going to show the replay. It looked like David was specifically trying to prevent Harrison from going to the middle of the field but Harrison just went anyway.

[mauchow]

How many ads for "Chuck" will we see? I'm about to pause the game, do some stuff and DVR this so I can fast forward. . Dunno why I didn't do that already.

[Eaglesfan27]

Jason David with a bit of revenge! :)

Edit: Watching the replay, that was a great strip by David.

[ISiddiqui]

FUMBLEEEE!!!

And the Saints score!

[RendeR]

I just missed an entire drive by the Saints because the moron running their web interface hasn't managed to get it to update since the colts kicked off.....

suckage.

[miami_fan]

They took full advantage of Freeney by holding him.

[mauchow]

Wayne looking exceptionally average so far.

[Eaglesfan27]

The Saints' secondary has surprised me so far.

[Hammer755]

So did anybody else with Dish Network get the Spanish broadcast for the first 5 minutes of the game?

[TroyF]

The Saints' secondary has surprised me so far.

Not me. I think they have a pretty solid secondary. I expect their run D to fail them, as well as their LB's trying to cover Clark.

David had a decent year last season. No, he wasn't a pro bowler, but he was pretty damned good. McKenzie is a pro bowl calibur player on the other side. Roman Harper was terrific early in the season last year (before he blew his knee out). Bullucks isn't great, but he's decent.

This is probably going to be one of the top 10 pass defenses in the NFL this year. (if guys stay healthy)

The problem is going to be those LB's. They played over their head last year and are almost certain to have a drop off this year.

[TroyF]

Dola:

I can't recomend the Pro Football Prospectus enough. There are some things I already had opinions on and the book solidified those (like the Saints secondary) There are others where I was flat out wrong. The book is a wealth of information and it's not just for fantasy geeks. It does a great job of explaining why teams win and lose games. It's a MUST buy for any football fan.

[wade moore]

As a colts fan, this first half worries me quite a bit.

[sabotai]

Dola:

I can't recomend the Pro Football Prospectus enough. There are some things I already had opinions on and the book solidified those (like the Saints secondary) There are others where I was flat out wrong. The book is a wealth of information and it's not just for fantasy geeks. It does a great job of explaining why teams win and lose games. It's a MUST buy for any football fan.

Agreed. Been reading it since the first book they made a couple of years ago. Easily the best football books written.

The one trend that is a bit worrysome with the series is that they devote more and more of the book to fantasy football stuff as the years go. It's still only a very small part of the book (a couple of short articles) that talks about fantasy football numbers and predictions in the 2007 book, I just hope it stays that way. I don't want fantasy football nonsense polluting actual football analysis.

[stevew]

Yeah, so it's a requirement that every ad feature Payton Manning? Or something. I halfways expect him to show up in a movie trailer at this rate.

[wade moore]

Dallas Clark on an end around.

A-W-E-S-O-M-E.

[wade moore]

As a Fantasy Owner of Manning, that last pass drives me crazy ;).

[mauchow]

OH, damn it. Why couldn't Harrison complete my nice duo of having him and Manning on my fantasy team this year. LOL Two more yards, man. Run a little faster, dood!

[Greyroofoo]

TD Addai!

[wade moore]

OH, damn it. Why couldn't Harrison complete my nice duo of having him and Manning on my fantasy team this year. LOL Two more yards, man. Run a little faster, dood!
I just knew they were going Addai on that play, damn.

[TroyF]

Agreed. Been reading it since the first book they made a couple of years ago. Easily the best football books written.

The one trend that is a bit worrysome with the series is that they devote more and more of the book to fantasy football stuff as the years go. It's still only a very small part of the book (a couple of short articles) that talks about fantasy football numbers and predictions in the 2007 book, I just hope it stays that way. I don't want fantasy football nonsense polluting actual football analysis.


I think the trend will be for the series to morph into a 75/25 split for in favor of football analysis. They can't ignore fantasy because it increases sales. Still, they keep making the book thicker and they do an incredible job of statistical analysis. So long as they just "add" the fantasy stuff and don't take out the other stuff, I'll be happy.

[wade moore]

Hmm.. maybe I should have drafted Addai...


Hah.. I type that as Manning throws the TD to Wayne ;)

[Greyroofoo]

Looks like the Colts losing Jason David is really addition by Subtraction!

TD MARVIN HARRISON!

ditto, just to Wayne this time.

[Greyroofoo]

I just hope we can see some Gonzo!

[Raiders Army]

C'mon Drew, you're starting for me this week!

[wade moore]

I just hope we can see some Gonzo!
I'm pretty surprised at how little he's been out there, but then again Clark is quite the asset in the slot.

[Buccaneer]

It's too bad one of these teams have to lose.

[Greyroofoo]

WHO NEEDS CATO JUNE!!!!!!

[wade moore]

WHO NEEDS CATO JUNE!!!!!!I'm quickly becoming a fan of this kid who's name I can't even spell yet ;).

[Greyroofoo]

ditto, just to Wayne this time.

ditto

[wade moore]

thrown at 9 times, 7 catches, 147 yards, 3 TD's.

In fariness, 1 FF, 1 FR for TD.

But still, great stat line there bubba.

[stevew]

I think the colts are going to repeat as champs. Nearly 10 ypa passing, a good running game, and a pretty solid looking defense. It's not some wild prediction, but they already look in postseason form.

[stevew]

dola

Now Addai needs to get some more fantasy points for me....solid game thus far, but I'd like either another TD, or at worst like 30 more yards rushing.

[wade moore]

I think the colts are going to repeat as champs. Nearly 10 ypa passing, a good running game, and a pretty solid looking defense. It's not some wild prediction, but they already look in postseason form.

I've been pretty surprised by the penetration they're getting on the run. I can't tell if it's bad on New Orleans or good on the Colts. But, this is one of the deadlier RB tandems in the league and relatively speaking, they haven't done much.

[Greyroofoo]

easiest challenge ever

[wade moore]

easiest challenge ever

Yeah, but if you're Payton you almost have to try.

[Raiders Army]

Dude, you just had to throw it there, Drew?

[Young Drachma]

What a beating. But that guy was pretty speedy.

[MikeVic]

Crazy stat for Brees.

[Raiders Army]

They're just playing sloppy now.

[wade moore]

Crazy stat for Brees.
I was only 1/2 paying attention, what was the stat they were throwing around?

[Raiders Army]

Why go for a touchdown? You might get someone hurt.

[MikeVic]

I was only 1/2 paying attention, what was the stat they were throwing around?

In the history of the NFL, he had the lowest yd/completion with a minimum of 20 or 25 attempts (forgot which one). His longest pass was something like 12 or 15 yards.

It's just crazy that this is the lowest in the history... that's a long time.

[Raiders Army]

If Madden and Michaels had any balls they'd put an offensive lineman on the horse trailer. Maybe Jeff Saturday.

[TroyF]

Sure way to get torched by the Colts:

1) Don't run the ball effectively.
2) Don't stop the run or control the middle of the field.
3) When you can't do #2, start blitzing to make up for it.
4) Get blown out.

Only a handfull of CB's in all of football could have covered Wayne on those TD's. David got put in a horrible spot by poor coaching and a sputtering offense. Obviously, it goes without saying that this will not be the only defense the Colts torch this season.

I like the Colts, but think they'll struggle to repeat. The offense will be terrific, but they are so thin at critical positions. Addai goes down, so does the running game. Harrison is 35 years old. He's never been hurt, but that doesn't mean he's going to defy time forever. The front seven looked great tonight, but a single injury there could hurt them badly. And of course, the big key, Sanders has never had a full 16 games of health before.

If they stay healthy, they are going to be tough. (though not unbeatable by any stretch) The odds they stay healthy are slim to none. I hope they do. Short of the Broncos, they are probably my favorite NFL team and I'd sure as hell like to see them over the Chargers or Ravens. (the Pats don't bother me, I really wanted Peyton to get his ring to shut the Pats fans up, but the team itself doesn't bother me)

[korme]

In the history of the NFL, he had the lowest yd/completion with a minimum of 20 or 25 attempts (forgot which one). His longest pass was something like 12 or 15 yards.

It's just crazy that this is the lowest in the history... that's a long time.

I'm 2/3 paying attention and will correct your mistakes:

min 25 attempts, longest was 13 yards

Got out of Chris Weinke's dubious honor the next throw with a 24 yard completion

[Daimyo]

Gonzo was a pick for the future and I don't expect we'll see much of anything from him barring injury. The two TE set with Clark shifting between TE and slot combined with the no huddle is just two powerful to go away from. If the defense goes nickel they can line Clark up at TE and take advantage with the run... if the defense plays straight they can line Clark up in the slot and take advantage of that mismatch.

[wade moore]

Gonzo was a pick for the future and I don't expect we'll see much of anything from him barring injury. The two TE set with Clark shifting between TE and slot combined with the no huddle is just two powerful to go away from. If the defense goes nickel they can line Clark up at TE and take advantage with the run... if the defense plays straight they can line Clark up in the slot and take advantage of that mismatch.

Good points. Sometimes it is easy to forget just how effective/important Clark is.

[rkmsuf]

observations:

1. Reggie Bush played TERRIBLE. Indecisive, tenative....yuck. If you didn't know his name you'd look at him as nothing but a kick returner with very little burst. One play he tried to turn the corner...last colt on the end reached out and dragged him down with one arm. He certainly didn't look like he was going balls to the wall out there. Maybe the ankle is affecting him...dunno.

2. Never liked Sean Payton. No idea what they were trying to accomplish with that game plan. Duece comes in, rips off 10 yards then goes right back out. Puzzling the way they tried to use Bush. I think he's got way too many packages and groupings. There's something to be said for less plays run really well.

3. Reggie Wayne rules.

4. Could there possible be more and bad commercials?

5. Loved Sean Payton punting on 4th and an inch in the 4th quarter down 17 points.

[flere-imsaho]

How many ads for "Chuck" will we see? I'm about to pause the game, do some stuff and DVR this so I can fast forward. . Dunno why I didn't do that already.

I started watching the game on delay at 8:00 (Central) and so got to forward through the entire pre-game crap, all of halftime, and finally caught up about halfway through the 3rd quarter.

You can have my DVR when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

[Huckleberry]

observations:

1. Reggie Bush played TERRIBLE. Indecisive, tenative....yuck. If you didn't know his name you'd look at him as nothing but a kick returner with very little burst. One play he tried to turn the corner...last colt on the end reached out and dragged him down with one arm. He certainly didn't look like he was going balls to the wall out there. Maybe the ankle is affecting him...dunno.

He had 12 carries for 38 yards. His average game last year was 9.7 carries for 35.3 yards. What exactly were you expecting? I guess the 7 yards on 4 receptions was surprising, but he only averaged 8.4 yards per catch last year. He's a great talent but he absolutely has to learn how to run inside or even cut to the inside if he wants to be a great performer.

[rkmsuf]

He had 12 carries for 38 yards. His average game last year was 9.7 carries for 35.3 yards. What exactly were you expecting? I guess the 7 yards on 4 receptions was surprising, but he only averaged 8.4 yards per catch last year. He's a great talent but he absolutely has to learn how to run inside or even cut to the inside if he wants to be a great performer.

Just watch him. He was less than average out there.

Maybe it's the way they were using him or maybe that's the way they have to use him.

[gstelmack]

On the Saints' secondary:

Didn't get to watch much, but did watch the early part of the 3rd quarter. The decisive defensive mistake seemed to be keeping only one safety back. On the key 3 of Manning's long throws that turned this into a blowout, you could watch either only one safety back deep, or one of them coming up to cover the slot so a LB could blitz. Manning would look the deep safety one way, then come back and throw the other. And those New Orleans' CBs weren't covering Wayne and Harrison one-on-one. I don't fault the CBs, they had no deep help 'tall, and Manning took advantage.

[rkmsuf]

On the Saints' secondary:

Didn't get to watch much, but did watch the early part of the 3rd quarter. The decisive defensive mistake seemed to be keeping only one safety back. On the key 3 of Manning's long throws that turned this into a blowout, you could watch either only one safety back deep, or one of them coming up to cover the slot so a LB could blitz. Manning would look the deep safety one way, then come back and throw the other. And those New Orleans' CBs weren't covering Wayne and Harrison one-on-one. I don't fault the CBs, they had no deep help 'tall, and Manning took advantage.

They kind of had to since Addai was tearing them up on the ground when they played 2 deep.

[Huckleberry]

Just watch him. He was less than average out there.

Maybe it's the way they were using him or maybe that's the way they have to use him.


I watched him. I also watched him last year. There was no significant difference. He's tentative, he's always looking for the big play, and he's always looking for the sideline if there's not a gaping hole.

[rkmsuf]

I watched him. I also watched him last year. There was no significant difference. He's tentative, he's always looking for the big play, and he's always looking for the sideline if there's not a gaping hole.

I guess, not really paying much attention to him last year, I thought he was better than that.

At least based on him being the poster boy for everything Saints you'd think that.

Looks to me like he's nothing more than a glorified 3rd down back.

[MikeVic]

I watched him. I also watched him last year. There was no significant difference. He's tentative, he's always looking for the big play, and he's always looking for the sideline if there's not a gaping hole.

Really? I thought I saw him sacrifice his body for a couple of plays at least. For sure there was one against the Steelers where he jumped for the end-zone and ended up getting clipped and landed on his shoulder...

[Huckleberry]

Really? I thought I saw him sacrifice his body for a couple of plays at least. For sure there was one against the Steelers where he jumped for the end-zone and ended up getting clipped and landed on his shoulder...

I don't mean to sound like I'm questioning his toughness. He's always struck me as strong and tough for his size. The issue is that all the way through college he could pretty much make the corner whenever he wanted and that's how he scored, made the big plays, and got on the highlight reels. He doesn't know how to run against defenses that have players as fast as he is. He almost has to learn a new style and commit to getting as many yards as each play will allow. Madden said last night, between unintelligible remarks, that Bush openly admitted as much. But saying it and doing it are two different things. His brain defaults to "get to the sideline" whenever there's a decision to be made.

[gstelmack]

Yup, he cost them a first down early when he tried to sidestep to try and break it open instead of just diving across the line.

[korme]

I started watching the game on delay at 8:00 (Central) and so got to forward through the entire pre-game crap, all of halftime, and finally caught up about halfway through the 3rd quarter.

You can have my DVR when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Yep, went to dinner and ended up about an hour behind, finally caught up about 5 minutes to go in the game, missing all of the commercials and halftime. DVR is amazing for this type of thing, though I don't think I'll ever use it for a Bengals game... I need to go through all the emotions there

[flere-imsaho]

They kind of had to since Addai was tearing them up on the ground when they played 2 deep.

This will be the challenge for every team facing the Colts this year. Addai was getting 4-6 yards through the middle at will. If you can't stop this, as a team, you're going to have to bring a safety down and if you do that, Manning will eat you alive especially since Harrison/Wayne/Clark pretty much always outclass the defenders on them.

Madden said last night, between unintelligible remarks, that Bush openly admitted as much.

I thought Madden was interesting. He said he's always been a fan of backs who bull for the extra yards and didn't like those who went to the ground/sideline too quickly. But when he talked to Bush, Bush mentioned that he was learning that sometimes you just have to go to ground. Then the very next play was the one where Johnson got the ball stripped when he tried to get the extra yards and should have just gone down (i.e. he got propped up and the defense started taking free hits).

Of course that's just the end of the run. Once Bush made a committment, he generally did OK. His problems, to me, are more at the beginning of his runs, and stem from a lack of decisiveness.

Bush still seems to think that he has more options open to him than he really does, and I think this is from his college experience where his speed/agility really did give him these options. At times you could almost see him thinking "oh, this isn't going to work, I'll just cut back and... oh crap" and get drilled.

Contrast to either Addai or McAllister just last night. Sure, they might take one or two stutter-steps after getting the handoff, but once they identified the likely hole, they just worked it through. Addai in particular was impressive at this. He was taking the handoff at full speed, doing that thing where he kind of bounces forward once or twice, and then hit the hole with his body low, basically squirting forward for a good 4-6 yards and not taking a colossal hit.

[korme]

I also tend to agree with the line of thinking that Bush's hesitance in the backfield is directly related to his ability to make things happen from nothing at the collegiate level.

McAllister needs to teach him to just run upfield.

[rkmsuf]

I also tend to agree with the line of thinking that Bush's hesitance in the backfield is directly related to his ability to make things happen from nothing at the collegiate level.

McAllister needs to teach him to just run upfield.

How about the coaches do that. Or else they crown his ass right to the bench.

[Doug5984]

Didn't get to read all this thread- but I place most of the blame on a bad game plan, and horrible play on both lines. Our defensive line got very little pressure on Manning, and didn't do anything agaisnt the run. Our offensive line got pushed around, Duece & Reggie didn't have good games but they were getting hit early on most plays. I think we should've stuck with the run a lot more in the 3rd quarter, I mean at half it was a good game (not great, but good). Come out in the 3rd and get torched.

Jason David got beat, but those were not his fault, they were perfect passes to all pro receivers in man coverage. I don't blame him, he could have had a little better footwork but again it wasn't all him.

Reggie, he didn't seem to have it tonight, dropped a pass and that never happens. As far as running the ball, you can't look directly at the stats and say oh he sucks. When he had a hole to run through he hit it hard and would get 7 yards. Then the next play he would get tackled as soon as the ball was in his hands and lose 4 yards. A lot of time it looked like the blockers were simply taking the wrong man, on the wrong angle. There was one play, where Reggie was going to the outside, and Stinchcomb blocked his guy right into Reggie's feet.

Our passing attack was pathetic, and I think it all had to do with blocking. Drew wasn't having much of a chance to throw.

Last year I saw a lot of games (the majority) where the play calling was awesome, great game plans where the offense could simply do whatever they wanted to do. Happened a lot last year, last night our game plan never seemed to click, or get in a rhythm. I think we should have just run Duece more, even if you're only getting 2-3 yards a pop. Tire out the defense, and keep Payton off the field.

With all that said, the game was fun to watch for 1 half... the 2nd half was miserable. But on the bright side, my giant ass pot of red beans & rice turned out great, fed I think 13(ish) people...and I have enough left over to eat all weekend, and into next week.

[Icy]

Just finished to watch the game as it was too late for me to see it live yesterday.

It was obvious that there is no way to beat the colts if you can't stop their run with your DL and LB's. As soon as you bring a Safety to help, Manning and his awesome WE's/TE will make you pay for it.

Loved Clark today, i think he was as important as Addai/Manning in that win. He played in every position, creating a lot of mismatches. I love to watch a good TE playing like that.

[Daimyo]

Colts defense was horrible against the run last year, but not universally so. What I mean is that they were historically bad against up-the-middle, straight ahead, pound it out rushes, but pretty solid against "finesse" type runs. The defense is small, but it incredibly quick. Saints probably would have been a lot better off if they'd started out running up the middle with McAllister and only using Bush as change of pace.

[rkmsuf]

Colts defense was horrible against the run last year, but not universally so. What I mean is that they were historically bad against up-the-middle, straight ahead, pound it out rushes, but pretty solid against "finesse" type runs. The defense is small, but it incredibly quick. Saints probably would have been a lot better off if they'd started out running up the middle with McAllister and only using Bush as change of pace.

Translation: Sean Payton is an idiot. Never liked that guy for some reason.

Or the Saints or Payton felt pressured into using and/or trying to showcase Bush more than the situation warrented due to the farging commercials and exposure of Bush in this national game. I hope that wasn't the case but it did cross my mind everytime I saw his jersey or face in commericals or promos.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... due to the farging commercials and exposure of Bush in this national game.

Well what do you expect? He's the Saints answer to Vick (minus the dogs) -- the only interesting thing about an otherwise uninteresting team. It's either market him or have nothing marketable at all.

Now that's a different comment than saying they should gameplan based on the marketing, although I can see where that could happen at some point (not particularly with him, just in sport in general).

[rkmsuf]

Well what do you expect? He's the Saints answer to Vick (minus the dogs) -- the only interesting thing about an otherwise uninteresting team. It's either market him or have nothing marketable at all.

Now that's a different comment than saying they should gameplan based on the marketing, although I can see where that could happen at some point (not particularly with him, just in sport in general).


I get it but on some level it makes me ill.

It's almost completely backwards now. You perform to become the star. Now you ARE the star and have to perform. Or maybe not as long as you are kinda cool.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I get it but on some level it makes me ill.

It's almost completely backwards now. You perform to become the star. Now you ARE the star and have to perform. Or maybe not as long as you are kinda cool.

Maybe it's just some sort of circle swinging back around. It used to be that the players meant something, guys spent their careers with a team, a bond was formed, etc., and you cared about the team in part because you cared about the players.

Then to have a rooting interest we had to care about the uniform since the players changed them so frequently. Somewhere along the way the outcome became less compelling because we didn't care about the people (or often didn't even know them). Now the people are bigger draws than the game itself but their performance doesn't strictly dictate the level of interest in the player.

I'm not sure what the next movement on the wheel of change would be, although I suspect something like Rollerball might be the logical direction.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

What I saw:

NO offense was stinky and unimaginative. When you're down big, can you please throw more than a 4-yard dump pass over the middle. I don't care if you're getting pressure and the secondary is hanging back; you gotta try it. Punting on 4th and inches down 17? WTF? You deserve to lose right there.

Anyone who thinks NO will have a top 10 secondary is smoking something. Jason David is not a "damn good" player. He's average. McKenzie is on the downside. Their safeties are even worse. As with last year, the NO defense will prevent them from going all the way.

You will only beat the Colts if you have an awesome D-line and front 7. Colts will not blow out teams like in the past, but they will be hanging tough game in and game out. They will be there in the AFC final four again, for sure.

I'm also over the hate. I'm starting to like Peyton Manning. Especially after seeing that SB special series on NFL Network.