Championship Manager 4--the holy grail of Sports Sims

[vbm95u2]

Downloaded the CM 4 beta demo this weekend and have been busily wasting time on it since then. There are a few bugs that need to be worked out. I've been reading the SIGAMES boards to see what bugs players are uncovering. It really is amazing to me how much interaction the developers have with the gaming community. They recognized that there would be bugs in the initial demo, they admitted this up front, and they are actively soliciting the community's help in ferreting them out prior to the final release. They keep the community regularly updated on what bugs have already been fixed. I must say that in spite of the bugs I find this game incredible. For the first time you can actually watch your players perform on the pitch. This will make managing the team much more interesting (i.e. I'm already relishing the thought of watching the entire game to see how my attacking midfielders are performing!). The game looks beautiful. The level of detail is simply out of this world.

Looking forward to the day when FOF will implement the immersive qualities of Championship Manager!

vbm95u2

[A-Husker-4-Life]

FOF will never be like CM because Jim feels he needs to explore different sports sim other than football... I personally think he should stick with TCY/FOF but it sounds like a new game is on it's way....

[Airhog]

It probably wont. Jim just doesnt have what it takes to release a holy grail type football sim. Marc made the right decision and has released an upadated sim for a number of years. I think it has been shown that people here will buy FOF or TCY like games, and improving them, will only expand those markets.

[RPI-Fan]

Uhh, check the Solecismic website. At least there used to be some post-FOF4 info directly stating he was working on a new sport.

[RPI-Fan]

Sorry, that last remark is probably not an appropriate response to your comment, Airhog. I'd read it to mean 'it probably won't'... be a new sport, but I think I'm mistaken.

Regardless, for anyone who's interested, here's the quote from the website...

As we enter 2003, the future remains uncertain. As I approach five years "unemployed", I hope to continue to make Solecismic Software my career. One of my goals is to maintain the football games, keeping them on the cutting edge for this type of career simulation.

My desire to break into new sports continues to grow, however. In early 2003, I began work on a new simulation. In this field new challenges always beckon. It's been a tremendously rewarding experience.


http://www.solecismic.com/sole/index.html

~rpi-fan

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I would buy another TCY or FOF but if it's a baseball game, I'll stick with OOTP series...

Jim just has to understand he should keep making improvements on his football games, just like Marcus does on his baseball game...

It is just not right that a new TCY is not coming in the next year, or for that matter in a couple of years....

[Alf]

I'm fine with current TCY version and not not feel the need for a new version. A search filter on recruits is all I really need extra

[Honolulu_Blue]

I simply can't wait until CM4 comes out. The timing, however, couldn't suck worse. After living some 3,668 miles away from my girlfriend for over a year, she is finally moving here at the end of March. Huge potential conflicts. Huge.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm definitely glad it's not another football game. I didn't buy FOF4, and if it were a new football game, I wouldn't even consider for a moment. Now he has me at least interested.

[ice4277]

Originally posted by RPI-Fan
I'm definitely glad it's not another football game. I didn't buy FOF4, and if it were a new football game, I wouldn't even consider for a moment. Now he has me at least interested.

Just out of curiosity, why is this?

[Airhog]

Why would you not consider buying a new FOF from jim? Just curious, but It seems to me that working on the game, and updating it every year, would make it a better game. Just look at CM4. Marc has been working on this game for 10+ years I think. It doesnt look like he has ran out of ideas to improve it. I cannot even imagine what is in store for CM5.

Look at the past though. I never played anything before CM3. Maybe Marc's early games were not that great.

Jim is the only programmer I know of that has tried to break into more than one text sim genre. You dont see Arlie trying to write the next Soccer sim. Or Joe trying to write a great basketball sim.
They have picked their horse and they seem to be sticking with them. I would rather see Jim continue to focus on what got him here, rather than trying to break into genres. If he creates a new game, he will now have 3 different products to support. I just dont see how he can keep improving all three games.

[JHandley]

Originally posted by Airhog


Jim is the only programmer I know of that has tried to break into more than one text sim genre. You dont see Arlie trying to write the next Soccer sim. Or Joe trying to write a great basketball sim.


Arlie is the lead programmer for football.net. There was major concern about how far behind development on football.net would be since it has taken so long for Arlie to finally get TDCB right.

[BreizhManu]

Originally posted by Airhog
Marc has been working on this game for 10+ years I think. It doesnt look like he has ran out of ideas to improve it. I cannot even imagine what is in store for CM5.

Look at the past though. I never played anything before CM3. Maybe Marc's early games were not that great.

Just to clarify something, Marc didn't create CM, Paul&Oliver Collyer did it. Marc joined SI in 1997 and is now the Head of Development (and before that I seem to remember having read he was an engineer in the aircraft industry or something like that).

Oh and CM2 was great too (even if I've reinstalled it last month, it looks crappy now, but was great at that time).

[Airhog]

Originally posted by JHandley
Arlie is the lead programmer for football.net. There was major concern about how far behind development on football.net would be since it has taken so long for Arlie to finally get TDCB right.

then I do stand corrected, but I still think the argument is valid. If someone is good at what they do, then why risk it? Now I can see Jim breaking into a sports sim that has been previously untouched, but we are running out of sports with a wide range of appeal.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally posted by BreizhManu
Just to clarify something, Marc didn't create CM, Paul&Oliver Collyer did it. Marc joined SI in 1997 and is now the Head of Development (and before that I seem to remember having read he was an engineer in the aircraft industry or something like that).
Oh and CM2 was great too (even if I've reinstalled it last month, it looks crappy now, but was great at that time).

'tis true before CM97-98 I was just a fan with lots of ideas :D

Ov and Paul are still working at SI (Ov escaped for a while but we've lured him back recently :) ) and still very much involved in the game.

PS. Yeah I used to design and code Flight Simulators for pilots to train upon (both Visuals and the physical simulation) before I joined SI, it was quite a cool job ... but not as much fun as making CM :D

[sabotai]

"Jim is the only programmer I know of that has tried to break into more than one text sim genre. "

The guy who did Action PC Football also has programmed a baseball and basketball game.

[Airhog]

Originally posted by sabotai
"Jim is the only programmer I know of that has tried to break into more than one text sim genre. "

The guy who did Action PC Football also has programmed a baseball and basketball game. '

An I think those results speak for themselves :D

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I feel Jim might be making a bad move getting away from football text sims.... Just imagine another TCY with playcalling and a better interface.... I guess that is all I'm going to do is imagine because it is not going happen for awhile :(