Front Office Football 2007, Version 6.1

[Solecismic]

Version 6.1 of Front Office Football 2007, which adds the 2007 rosters and schedule, was released this afternoon. This update is free for all licensed customers.

It includes a few bug fixes as well.

Please visit http://www.solecismic.com for more information.

[Celeval]

Thanks, Jim!

Downloading now...

[Antmeister]

Oh shi.....

[Ben E Lou]

Woot!

[Eaglesfan27]

Double WOOT! I now wonder if I could have kept Steve as my primary QB.. if nothing else he might have more trade value :)

[MrBug708]

Yay!

[Emiliano]

Nice!

[stevew]

Give commissioner access to all team depth charts and game plans in multi-player game (remember that game plan changes are not part of an export).


Does this mean we can now control all the teams if we want to?

[FrogMan]

woah, how lucky can I be. Bought the game a couple days ago, playe one full evening at 6.0(some letter) and now I'll have 6.1, weehee :D

Anybody got the details of what was changed?

FM

[Antmeister]

Here a few of my favorites



Add highlights on the amateur draft screen for good, great and poor combine performances.
Scouting, done by AI, should consider an understanding of combine scores for younger players.
Reduce the scouting error.
Change Solevision text for key run blocks so that it is no longer a "tell" for a successful run. Also, it should be clear that the key run block is not necessarily at the point of attack.

[Antmeister]

woah, how lucky can I be. Bought the game a couple days ago, playe one full evening at 6.0(some letter) and now I'll have 6.1, weehee :D

Anybody got the details of what was changed?

FM

Here:

http://www.solecismic.com/support/index.php

[Celeval]

2007 schedule and player file.
Add highlights on the amateur draft screen for good, great and poor combine performances.
Scouting, done by AI, should consider an understanding of combine scores for younger players.
Reduce the scouting error.
Credit the salary cap with unused salary for players signed during the season.
Reduce inappropriate use of goal-line defense toward the end of a half.
Eliminate ability to use a starter less than 50% of the time.
Correct a problem with satisfying a voidable contract with an interceptions incentive.
Recommend pass-aggressive defense more in obvious passing situations, especially on third down.
Try to understand when teams are going to run the clock in the fourth quarter, and use more run defense.
Change thresholds for players choosing not to attend the combine, so that it's not as likely they are better than scouting bars.
If a player is resigned during free agency, don't change how they were acquired.
Cosmetic change to adjustments screens indicating proper use of the word "more."
Refine when time outs are called at the end of a half on defense.
Tweak algorithm for assigning backup weak-inside linebacker in 3-4 defense so it's less likely an outside linebacker is assigned in the depth chart.
Cosmetic change to player accomplishments section of player card, when a player is tied for first, a (t) should appear.
Text descriptions for the yes/no buttons in the new multi-player game, economic playing field option, were reversed.
Try and ensure nickel and dime backs don't blitz, and change the replaced linebacker in the 3-4 to the strong-side, since the weak-side linebacker is involved in the pass rush. This will give 3-4 teams a more sensible way to use the depth chart.
Cosmetic change to simulation overview window, "no games scheduled" should not be indicated when choosing to hide results on that screen.
Change Solevision text for key run blocks so that it is no longer a "tell" for a successful run. Also, it should be clear that the key run block is not necessarily at the point of attack.
Ensure that the recommend button for game plans always considers the upcoming opponent during the playoffs.
Various tweaks to engine, especially passing game, to better fit 2006 professional football numbers.
Give commissioner access to all team depth charts and game plans in multi-player game (remember that game plan changes are not part of an export).
Add player records to yearly statistics file when player appeared in playoffs but did not appear in a regular-season game.
Ensure that the double-coverage options when choosing wide receivers by ability rather than side of formation, work properly.Courtesy of Solecismic Software Support

[Antmeister]

Oh....so this is the reason I keep buying FOF.

[Celeval]

The combine highlights look like all combine scored are now colored blue (for "great combine score"), red ("superior combine score"), black (no description), or green ("poor combine score").

[FrogMan]

Here:

http://www.solecismic.com/support/index.php


[/list]Courtesy of Solecismic Software Support


thanks guys, I found it right after posting this here, sweet stuff :)

FM

[Subby]

Does this mean we can now control all the teams if we want to?
This is a dream for testers...

[Celeval]

For anyone wondering how up to date the rosters are.... Charlie Frye is on the Seahawks.

[Subby]

The combine highlights look like all combine scored are now colored blue (for "great combine score"), red ("superior combine score"), black (no description), or green ("poor combine score").
GREEN STOP! RED GO!

[Celeval]

For anyone wondering how up to date the rosters are.... Charlie Frye is on the Seahawks.

...and Leftwich is on the Falcons. Vick, fwiw, is not... and I don't think I see either Chris Henry, Pacman Jones, or Tank Johnson either.

[twothree]

I appreciate the new patch. Thank you.

[gstelmack]

Have to look at this and see if Draft Analyzer is finally outdated. Hooray for me if so!

[MIJB#19]

Thanks Jim. Is it okay to ask whether any other non-listed issues were fixed?

[MizzouRah]

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!


Thanks Jim...:)

[ace1914]

Draft day is saturday for the OSFL, this couldn't have come at a better time.

[ReiperXHC]

Nice...constant updating. You're the man, Jim. I wish more game developers would do this. They could sure learn something from you in how to satisfy their customer base. I will surely continue to buy all the games that you release. (Can't wait for a new college years one)

-Reip

[MrDNA]

Hooray for 3-4 blitz fixes! Of course, now I have to re-do all my gameplan ideas, but still...

[Julio Riddols]

Oh. My. God.

Wooty, look at this update... Its so.. BIG..

I think I just had a sportgasm.

[Ajaxab]

Many thanks Jim! I know I've been tough on 2k7, but this patch gives me some faith that things are becoming ever clearer.

[markprior22]

Thanks Jim

[Hoya1]

sweet
thanks, Mr.Gindin

[jkat]

Thanks, the changes all sound good.

Double coverage looks to be working or, rather, reporting right as the game logs now seem to match what the engine has been doing.


This, however;

Try and ensure nickel and dime backs don't blitz, and change the replaced linebacker in the 3-4 to the strong-side, since the weak-side linebacker is involved in the pass rush. This will give 3-4 teams a more sensible way to use the depth chart.
still doesn't seem to work right.

3-4 Nickel: Only Nickel personnel, no blitzing

WLB with 43 passes caught against, NB with 13. WLB with no pass rush statistics, NB with 11.0 sacks, 6 blocked, and 20 hurries.


Player Pos Team GP GS Ints IRYd TD Defn Cght PPly PDPct
Drakeford, Max[SLB] OLB MIA 16 16 2 1 0 17 46 573 80.7
Gepner, Keith[WLB] OLB MIA 16 16 2 30 0 3 43 573 75.5
Devine, Matt CB MIA 16 16 4 36 0 8 39 573 80.3
Kreidler, Malcolm CB MIA 16 16 5 48 0 31 37 573 91.3
Reid, Nolan ILB MIA 16 16 2 10 0 5 34 573 78.4
McKenzie, Quinn S MIA 16 16 5 93 1 7 32 573 82.4
Burgo, Curtis S MIA 16 16 1 0 0 10 29 573 80.8
Turner, Korey[NB] CB MIA 16 16 1 84 1 2 13 573 81.2
Gerhardt, Rickey DE MIA 16 16 0 0 0 1 5 573 81.8
Stephens, James DT MIA 16 16 0 0 0 0 5 573 81.4
Griffith, Johnny DE MIA 16 16 0 0 0 0 4 573 81.6

Player Pos Team GP GS Tckl Asst Sack Blkd Hurr QBKd
Turner, Korey[NB] CB MIA 16 16 50 25 11.0 6 20 0
Gerhardt, Rickey DE MIA 16 16 49 19 5.5 8 18 3
Griffith, Johnny DE MIA 16 16 26 9 3.5 6 36 17
Stephens, James DT MIA 16 16 48 15 1.0 1 7 0
Gepner, Keith[WLB] OLB MIA 16 16 109 35 0.0 0 0 0
Reid, Nolan ILB MIA 16 16 93 33 0.0 0 0 0
McKenzie, Quinn S MIA 16 16 78 25 0.0 0 0 0
Drakeford, Max[SLB] OLB MIA 16 16 72 32 0.0 0 0 0
Devine, Matt CB MIA 16 16 52 11 0.0 0 0 0
Kreidler, Malcolm CB MIA 16 16 50 14 0.0 0 0 0
Burgo, Curtis S MIA 16 16 49 22 0.0 0 0 0

3-4 Dime: Only Dime personnel, no blitzing

WLB with 39 passes caught against, NB with 10. WLB with no pass rush statistics, NB with no pass rush statistics (yet with so few passes caught against that he seems to be a pass rusher)


Player Pos Team GP GS Ints IRYd TD Defn Cght PPly
Reid, Nolan ILB MIA 16 16 1 0 0 10 43 548 77.3
Kreidler, Malcolm CB MIA 16 16 3 76 2 14 39 548 81.9
Gepner, Keith[WLB] OLB MIA 16 16 2 0 0 5 39 548 77.0
Devine, Matt CB MIA 16 16 4 21 0 11 37 548 82.0
Burgo, Curtis S MIA 16 16 3 53 0 14 29 548 84.3
Francis, Antonio S MIA 16 16 4 25 0 8 28 547 82.8
McKenzie, Quinn S MIA 16 16 2 0 0 13 28 548 83.1
Turner, Korey[NB] CB MIA 16 16 0 0 0 2 10 548 81.0
Gerhardt, Rickey DE MIA 16 16 0 0 0 0 8 548 80.6
Griffith, Johnny DE MIA 16 16 0 0 0 0 3 548 81.8
Stephens, James DT MIA 16 16 1 8 0 0 2 548 82.9

Player Pos Team GP GS Tckl Asst Sack Blkd Hurr QBKd
Griffith, Johnny DE MIA 16 16 53 14 18.5 12 27 24
Gerhardt, Rickey DE MIA 16 16 52 17 6.0 6 25 1
Stephens, James DT MIA 16 16 41 20 3.5 3 14 0
Reid, Nolan ILB MIA 16 16 98 38 0.0 0 0 0
Gepner, Keith[WLB] OLB MIA 16 16 87 23 0.0 0 0 0
McKenzie, Quinn S MIA 16 16 76 36 0.0 0 0 0
Kreidler, Malcolm CB MIA 16 16 58 15 0.0 0 0 0
Francis, Antonio S MIA 16 16 55 30 0.0 0 0 0
Burgo, Curtis S MIA 16 16 52 22 0.0 0 0 0
Devine, Matt CB MIA 16 16 47 14 0.0 0 0 0
Turner, Korey[NB] CB MIA 16 16 37 7 0.0 0 0 0

The Dime is an issue, especially, as it has virtually no pass rush, since the NB seems to just kind of disappear instead of matching his Nickel effectiveness. While replacing the SLB with the WLB is probably a good thing, you can no longer blitz the SLB a high percentage of the time to make up for the fourth pass rusher not rushing properly.


Thanks for the effort towards this, and of course all the other changes, but it still doesn't seem to work as anticipated.

[DougW]

Curious ..

How does this effect MP leagues ? Specifically, do ALL owners have to be using the same version, or is it OK if some owners do not patch.

(Thinking here is leagues will update at different times, and am hoping this doesn't present a problem with exports, etc.)

[Ben E Lou]

Curious ..

How does this effect MP leagues ? Specifically, do ALL owners have to be using the same version, or is it OK if some owners do not patch.

(Thinking here is leagues will update at different times, and am hoping this doesn't present a problem with exports, etc.)

I've been testing this some. So far, all indications are that this puppy is both forward and backward compatible. Jim would have to confirm to be certain, but as far as I can tell, it appears that each of these scenarios work just fine:

1. Commish on 6.1, league member on 6.0e
2. Commish on 6.0e, league member on 6.1

[Peregrine]

Wow, thanks Jim! Great update.

[Icy]

Awesome, thanks Jim!

[Anthony]

this is a great (and unexpected). thanks to Jim for continued support to his products.

i just wish you included Vick.


....and made him a punter in the game. :p

[gstelmack]

Glad to see the combine coloring. Already seeing some differences in how the scores are viewed, although most are minor. As expected given that we are analyzing a limited sample set, and the game's definition of "great" will vary from what mine was anyway.

[cuervo72]

So do they vary from year to year (i.e. use the stdevs a year at a time) or do they use a set of absolute stdevs/benchmarks?

[gstelmack]

So do they vary from year to year (i.e. use the stdevs a year at a time) or do they use a set of absolute stdevs/benchmarks?

Draft Analyzer uses a set of averages / stdevs calculated from a pool of 50 rookie classes for all classes it examines.

[Nogram]

Various tweaks to engine, especially passing game, to better fit 2006 professional football numbers.

For the LOVE OF PETE (or Jim as the case may be), I hope this allows for a pass centred offense to be possible when calling your own plays!

Nogram.

[DougW]

Aargh.

It moved all my windows & changed my exp. tags back :(. I had 'em set perfect. Oh well, guess I gotta look it up how to do it again.

[cuervo72]

Draft Analyzer uses a set of averages / stdevs calculated from a pool of 50 rookie classes for all classes it examines.

Right - what I mean is does the update appear to use set values vs calculating them relative to the specific class? I'd figure it would as numbers would be there to govern the spread creation in the first place, but wasn't sure given your previous post (limited set, etc).

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Sportsgasm? I think I had one too. This is the reason why I buy each and every version of FOF. I know it will get done right.

Thanks Jim. Nice to see you recognized issues this late in the game and were willing to make some fixes.

Now, has anyone noticed whether the help file has been more well developed? That I would like to see.

[DrTeeth]

Yeah! I bought this game last week and have been glued to it ever since. What a great game. I'm trying to convince my brother to get it as well.

Anyway, I just registered on this forum to say thanks for the update! I look forward to it, especially the draft combine upgrades (though I'm not quite sure I agree with the coloring... seems opposite of intuitive).

[Front Office Midget]

Thanks for the update Jim. I really appreciate the constant updates from you. Unfortunately, I found out about this 20 minutes after my multiplayer league finished our draft. Even so, thanks for fixing some of the glaring errors. Now it's time to find new ones for you to fix! :)

[Solecismic]

Thanks, the changes all sound good.

Double coverage looks to be working or, rather, reporting right as the game logs now seem to match what the engine has been doing.


This, however;

still doesn't seem to work right.

3-4 Nickel: Only Nickel personnel, no blitzing

WLB with 43 passes caught against, NB with 13. WLB with no pass rush statistics, NB with 11.0 sacks, 6 blocked, and 20 hurries.

The Dime is an issue, especially, as it has virtually no pass rush, since the NB seems to just kind of disappear instead of matching his Nickel effectiveness. While replacing the SLB with the WLB is probably a good thing, you can no longer blitz the SLB a high percentage of the time to make up for the fourth pass rusher not rushing properly.


Thanks for the effort towards this, and of course all the other changes, but it still doesn't seem to work as anticipated.

I've spent a lot of time looking into this tonight. I'd like the SLB to blitz effectively out of the dime 43 if so inclined, because the WLB is gone. Presumably, he'd trade off with a nickel or dime back covering the tight end in this situation anyway and just drop into a short zone or blitz.

I'd also like the damned nickel to do his job and not chase the quarterback. Sure, if he's lining up over the slot, that can be part of an effective blitz package. But the way the game is doing this is wrong. Eventually, I'd like to include about 20-25 different blitz "packages" with the game.

The engine offers the flexibility to effectively use different package styles, but the UI isn't there yet.

I'd like to get all of this right, even though much of this needs to be replaced down the road anyway. There are some nice algorithms in the code, but what I have is effectively four different pieces developed at different times, and coordinating them, especially since I'm trying to provide a different experience for 43 defenses, is critical.

There's some neat stuff in here, I need to get it coordinated properly. I know now why the nickel is rushing instead of the WLB. And I've found why the dime isn't very effective.

[Solecismic]

Thanks Jim. Is it okay to ask whether any other non-listed issues were fixed?

Were there other issues? I looked at everything that was reported.

[Solecismic]

Does this mean we can now control all the teams if we want to?

No. This is just to give commissioners a chance to check things and make a quick fix before simming.

[DougW]

Thanks Jim. Too many companies just release, and get to making the next one as fast as possible - and don't take the time to improve the product since they've already made their money off it. You're continued effort on this series has made me repeat customer, and most likely will be for life.

Thanks again.

[MIJB#19]

Were there other issues? I looked at everything that was reported.I'll send a PM to avoid getting a side-tracked discussion in this thread.
Edit: Hmm, apparently I can't PM the Solecismic account...

[Solecismic]

I'll send a PM to avoid getting a side-tracked discussion in this thread.
Edit: Hmm, apparently I can't PM the Solecismic account...

I shut off PMs because I can go a long time without signing in due to the cache bug with the forum. Normally, I lurk without signing in.

Just send email to support. It reaches me fairly quickly.

By the way, I have updated 6.1 to address pieces of the 34 issue. I don't think the blitz/coverage issue is ever going to be perfect with the current game planning, but I'd like the 34 to be a solid choice for linebacker-heavy teams.

While reviewing all the pieces of how this works, I found something I didn't like affecting the usefulness of nickel and dime backs, period. One of those little things that would never show up as a visible bug, but important to the engine, nonetheless.

It's still called version 6.1, but I've changed the internal versioning so that it will install seamlessly over this afternoon's release if you've already updated.

Eventually, I'd like to see defensive scheming reach the point where you can run New England's elephant and castle (Wilfork and a caderie of linebackers) and have it perform like you'd expect. Again, I think the engine itself can handle this nicely, but there just isn't the variety of input yet.

Some day, you're going to be able to learn and see the difference between zero-technique tackles with two-gap assignments and three-technique tackles assigned to the B-gap. In the NFL, these are very, very different roles. In FOF, there's really no difference.

[MIJB#19]

Sending an email instead in about 5 mins.

[EagleFan]

Thanks Jim

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

[Icy]

So Jim, do we need to download again the 6.1 patch and is it updated with those 3-4 defense fixes or is it something you are going to release in the future?

[Ben E Lou]

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

From further looks at draft classes generated by 6.1, I *think* what's going on here is that the limits for scout error have been lowered for new players, too. Jim would have to verify if he chooses to do so, but in the first few classes I looked at, it appears that guys are less obfuscated than in 6.0e. At this point, this is still very much in the impression/hypothesis stage, but it would certainly be a logical way to do it.

[Subby]

Just FYI - the in game FTP still doesn't work...

[QuikSand]

By the way, I have updated 6.1 to address pieces of the 34 issue. I don't think the blitz/coverage issue is ever going to be perfect with the current game planning, but I'd like the 34 to be a solid choice for linebacker-heavy teams.

While reviewing all the pieces of how this works, I found something I didn't like affecting the usefulness of nickel and dime backs, period. One of those little things that would never show up as a visible bug, but important to the engine, nonetheless.

Can you give us a little more guidance here? If we want to run a 3-4 defense, should we now be looking for actual cover men to play in the nickel (and dime) slots? Or will they still largely be playing basically a DE role?

[Wolfy]

Thanks for the continued updates !

[Gallifrey]

Thanks! This is great....as usual.

[Passacaglia]

I still want TCY2. :p

hi jbmagic

[st.cronin]

I still want TCY2. :p

hi jbmagic

+1

[jkat]

The 3-4 Nickel looks good. Refreshing to see the WLBs from Pittsburgh, San Diego, and the like putting up some very solid overall pass rush statistics.

[Solecismic]

Can you give us a little more guidance here? If we want to run a 3-4 defense, should we now be looking for actual cover men to play in the nickel (and dime) slots? Or will they still largely be playing basically a DE role?

Yes, absolutely, the nickel and dime should be in coverage on all plays now. The dime was, but wasn't playing effectively (for the 43, either). The 34 nickel was rushing, though, and that is no longer the case.

[hyde4us11]

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

[Ben E Lou]

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

It's the full game file. Yes.

[Solecismic]

Jim, could you follow up on an issue that SD is working on? Is the scout error correction going to have a bigger effect on guys just coming into the league now and a tiny effect on current players (as his test is showing), or tiny across the board? I think it would help all MP leagues to know that before going into their next draft.

Scouting error in general is higher on younger players. That doesn't necessarily hold true for every individual player.

Scouting error was reduced. The reduction was general, not specific to any group or position.

[hyde4us11]

It's the full game file. Yes.


Thanks for your quick reply

[Solecismic]

Thanks Jim. Too many companies just release, and get to making the next one as fast as possible - and don't take the time to improve the product since they've already made their money off it. You're continued effort on this series has made me repeat customer, and most likely will be for life.

Thanks again.

Thanks. I appreciate this.

[Celeval]

Ive been looking everywhere and cant seem to find a patch. Do i need to uninstall my current version and reinstall the full game file ?

To clarify - you don't need to uninstall; just install right over top.

[stevew]

No. This is just to give commissioners a chance to check things and make a quick fix before simming.

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.

[Solecismic]

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.

It's disappointing to see people upset when I put out an update. I try to throw in something new every now and then, but the real purpose is to fix bugs and keep the game fresh.

That feature is not possible with the current data structure, which makes it far beyond anything I'd ever try with an update.

[1986 Giants]

Darn it, I did NOT want to have to register here and start hanging around in these forums now, but here I am anyway. :mad:

I needed to search for topics that I don't understand yet, so I had to bite the bullet. There will be no Hall of Fame status, or whatever it's called, on these boards for me. I simply forbid myself!

I will devote my maiden post just to saying thanks for a great game and the update which I stumbled across just now. I am very impressed so far. I'm hooked on FOF, I must say.

But I'm not talking any more about it! For a while. ;)

[stevew]

It's disappointing to see people upset when I put out an update. I try to throw in something new every now and then, but the real purpose is to fix bugs and keep the game fresh.

That feature is not possible with the current data structure, which makes it far beyond anything I'd ever try with an update.

Oh, trust me, I'm not mad. I appreciate the work you do.

[Sweed]

Thanks Jim for the update, a very nice surprise.

[FBPro]

Fantastic, keep up the good work.

[QuikSand]

Yes, absolutely, the nickel and dime should be in coverage on all plays now. The dime was, but wasn't playing effectively (for the 43, either). The 34 nickel was rushing, though, and that is no longer the case.

Great to hear, thanks.

[Capital]

I have been playing this quite a bit lately, and this was indeed a surprise.

[ReiperXHC]

Yeah, I gotta' admit, I "love" how these updates just pop up out of nowhere...I'm so used to Madden and such I didn't even expect there'd actually "be" another update. Love what you did with the combine scores btw, Jim.

-Reip

[abal1221]

I'm so used to Madden and such I didn't even expect there'd actually "be" another update.
There are updates to Madden every year. You just gotta pay $60 for them

[Nogram]

Various tweaks to engine, especially passing game, to better fit 2006 professional football numbers.

Can you please provide some additional details on this tweak?

Thanks,

Nogram

[Raiders Army]

This is a good deal.

[Subby]

Thanks for the update Jim - I really appreciate the countless hours you put into supporting my favorite game...

[EagleFan]

Why isn't this stickied?

[Ben E Lou]

Why isn't this stickied?Heh. I don't think it has been below #3 or so on the page, so I just didn't think to sticky it. Done.

[CraigSca]

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

[wade moore]

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

I think it means that FOF (Like Analyzer) is comparing to some sort of global average. I.E. it's not how much better they are than the people in their draft class, but how much better they are than your average Safety/CB.

But I'm guessing, I'm not 100% sure on that. When I look in analyzer only 3 safeties have more than 2 standard deviations above the norm for Broad Jump. only 5 above 1 standard deviation.

But idano, that seems like the norm across all of the positions so maybe i'm crazy.

[Sgt Tomorrow]

Shucks. Maybe at some point could this be added? I think it would be great to be able to control 4 or 5 teams in a single player. But i do understand if it may at some point cause unintended bugs/exploits to occur.


To accomplish what you want, why dont you start a new mp league and just set up your game to the teams you want to control by the "enter new career" option?

[ReiperXHC]

Heh. I don't think it has been below #3 or so on the page, so I just didn't think to sticky it. Done.

The only time (before now) that I've seen it below "or above I guess" #1 was whenever I posted something to a different thread lol.

[Ben E Lou]

Any other WOOFers out there notice that all but 2-3 safeties and cornerbacks in this year's draft have "poor" combine scores for the broad jump? I'm assuming this implies that good/bad combine scores are not rated per position, but are across the board, correct?

Doesn't that therefore decrease the value of using this in-game? e.g. We still need Draft Analyzer to do this work

I think it means that FOF (Like Analyzer) is comparing to some sort of global average. I.E. it's not how much better they are than the people in their draft class, but how much better they are than your average Safety/CB.

But I'm guessing, I'm not 100% sure on that. When I look in analyzer only 3 safeties have more than 2 standard deviations above the norm for Broad Jump. only 5 above 1 standard deviation.

But idano, that seems like the norm across all of the positions so maybe i'm crazy.

Just looked at a game-generated draft class, all but four safeties, and all but three CBs are green (poor). My guess here at first glance is that there's a bug in how the colors are assigned for broad jump for defensive backs. Heading to check other positions and to generate a few more drafts to verify...

[Ben E Lou]

At first pass, it looks like a bug with CBs, Ss, and WRs, and probably RBs. There are two CBs in the first 6.1-generated draft class I looked at who had 10'1" broad jumps (tied for 4th-best in the entire draft class), but who only got black coloring. I'll sim forward and generate another class or two before putting it in the bug thread.

[Ben E Lou]

Yeah. Either CBs and Ss need some exceptional scores, or they're not getting fully fair treatment. I've checked three 6.1-generated classes now, and have yet to see a single blue or red CB or S broad jump result.

[Ben E Lou]

Heh...given the positions in questions, it just hit me that this may not be a bug at all.

[Dutch]

Heh...given the positions in questions, it just hit me that this may not be a bug at all.

That was my first thought when reading through this.

[Ben E Lou]

That was my first thought when reading through this.

You're quicker than me. ;)
.
I've logged it as a "potential" bug, because certainly on the surface it makes it look like something's wrong. Although, yeah, it may be just fine and working as intended.

[MizzouRah]

Are we supposed to re-download the patch?

[Dutch]

You're quicker than me. ;)
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I've logged it as a "potential" bug, because certainly on the surface it makes it look like something's wrong. Although, yeah, it may be just fine and working as intended.

Right. Of course, I base all my theory's on hunches...and hunches are both cheap and quick. :)

[QuikSand]

# Try and ensure nickel and dime backs don't blitz, and change the replaced linebacker in the 3-4 to the strong-side, since the weak-side linebacker is involved in the pass rush. This will give 3-4 teams a more sensible way to use the depth chart.

Will this change cause a compatibility problem for teams in MP leagues if the owner is using one version, and the commissioner uses another for running the sim? (i.e. Will the 6.1 game be able to handle a depth chart submitted in 6.0e with a SLB in the depth chart, and vice versa?)

[Dutch]

Right. Of course, I base all my theory's on hunches...and hunches are both cheap and quick. :)

I see SD already made mention of this in the bug thread. I just looked at my first draft class in SP. When 95% of my WR's were "green" in Broad Jump, I realized that there was probably something out of whack there.

So SD, your back in the lead with the good quicks.

[michael1123]

I love the update, but can you please make it so that a defense never lines up in a goal line formation in a passing down outside of their redzone?

I'm having the computer set my gameplans, and typically they do a great job, but multiple times each game the offense is in an obvious passing down (3rd and 20 while I'm up by 2 touchdowns) and my defense lines up in goal line formation and allows a 25+ yard pass.

Its really rather ridiculous. Please fix this!

Its the only major error I see in AI gameplanning week in and week out.

[QuikSand]

michael, that was reported and addressed:

# Reduce inappropriate use of goal-line defense toward the end of a half.

I haven't done any testing to see how well it's been tackled, but I know Jim was aware of the problem, as it was widely reported here.

[michael1123]

Ok. That was my reaction to watching my first game in Solevision after updating to 6.1, and it was still happening there.

But this brings up a question. I update to 6.1, but the commish of my online league doesn't. If I let the AI set my gameplans is it a pre 6.1 or post 6.1 gameplan?

[michael1123]

And just because it says "reduce the # of inappropriate goal-line defense calls" doesn't mean its been reduced to 0, which should be an easily achieved number in 3rd and 20 situations.

But if my problem was soley because my commish's FOF hasn't been updated, I apologize.

[bmerryman]

Some day, you're going to be able to learn and see the difference between zero-technique tackles with two-gap assignments and three-technique tackles assigned to the B-gap. In the NFL, these are very, very different roles. In FOF, there's really no difference.

Yes they are very different roles. I would add that the same applies to defensive ends. When you pull this off, it will be a fantastic development.

[wade moore]

Ok. That was my reaction to watching my first game in Solevision after updating to 6.1, and it was still happening there.

But this brings up a question. I update to 6.1, but the commish of my online league doesn't. If I let the AI set my gameplans is it a pre 6.1 or post 6.1 gameplan?

The game engine changes (like the goal line issue) will not happen until the commish patches.

[Richard Weed]

You know, I wonder if all of the stated changes are all of the changes...

Jim is notorious for giving us several other improvements and features that aren't documented.

[Dutch]

You know, I wonder if all of the stated changes are all of the changes...

Jim is notorious for giving us several other improvements and features that aren't documented.

This would probably be the first release/update that didn't have some hidden gems or engine work done to it.

[Kodos]

I think he gave Greta implants. Woot!

[Celeval]

And just because it says "reduce the # of inappropriate goal-line defense calls" doesn't mean its been reduced to 0, which should be an easily achieved number in 3rd and 20 situations.

But if my problem was soley because my commish's FOF hasn't been updated, I apologize.

That should be able to be handled by your Aggressive Run / Expect Run setting in the gameplan as well.

[bselig]

Running some quick sims, it seems like the patch has slowed down the extreme passing gameplan to some degree

[QuikSand]

Re-posting since I think there may be some urgency for MP leagues where the simmers and owners may be on different versions:

- - -

# Try and ensure nickel and dime backs don't blitz, and change the replaced linebacker in the 3-4 to the strong-side, since the weak-side linebacker is involved in the pass rush. This will give 3-4 teams a more sensible way to use the depth chart.

Will this change cause a compatibility problem for teams in MP leagues if the owner is using one version, and the commissioner uses another for running the sim? (i.e. Will the 6.1 game be able to handle a depth chart submitted in 6.0e with a SLB in the depth chart, and vice versa?)

- - -

I guess some user testing could discover if this poses a crash-type problem... but if it becomes something more subtle (like your WLB in your 6.1 gameplan being used as a SLB in the simmer's 6.0e game, and suffering from an experience penalty, or getting an oddball blitz assignment) I don't see how anyone but the developer can offer much insight here.

[gstelmack]

As a side note, my office league is in the middle of the season, so still 6.0e, while WOOF is at 6.1.

I copied off the 6.0e executable, installed 6.1, put 6.0e in my office league batch file, 6.1 in my WOOF batch file, and can now run the correct version for the league. That may be the best way until all the leagues move.

[bselig]

My impression so far as that this patch seems to compress the field of possible strategies, which is probably realistic for the NFL. I'm having a hard time coming up with gameplans that aren't worse then the AI

[Solecismic]

Re-posting since I think there may be some urgency for MP leagues where the simmers and owners may be on different versions:

- - -



Will this change cause a compatibility problem for teams in MP leagues if the owner is using one version, and the commissioner uses another for running the sim? (i.e. Will the 6.1 game be able to handle a depth chart submitted in 6.0e with a SLB in the depth chart, and vice versa?)

- - -

I guess some user testing could discover if this poses a crash-type problem... but if it becomes something more subtle (like your WLB in your 6.1 gameplan being used as a SLB in the simmer's 6.0e game, and suffering from an experience penalty, or getting an oddball blitz assignment) I don't see how anyone but the developer can offer much insight here.


That's a good question, fortunately one I thought of before issuing the patch. Yes, there is a slight experience penalty, but no crash potential.

There is no new code affecting the utility of strategies, but the restrictions on pass defenses were somewhat relaxed.

[Ben E Lou]

Give commissioner access to all team depth charts and game plans in multi-player game (remember that game plan changes are not part of an export).

Has anyone tried this? I ask because we have a league member that may be out of town for business this week, and I was checking to see what I can and can't do for him, and I don't see those options being available from the commish login. If I still need to log in as the team in question, what's different here? Or, am I really missing something?

[Ben E Lou]

Bump. Un-stick.