Werewolf LVI: Beneath the Iron Cross - GAME OVER, VILLAGERS WIN!

[Neon_Chaos]

Since Barkeep won't be pushing through with his game... I will be with mine. This is more traditional Werewolf, so new players are also welcome.

I haven't GM'd a Werewolf game since 2005. So, there ya go... that's how damn long it's been. :) I practically didn't play for a year. Heh.

The rules are here:
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=58273

I will probably change the deadlines to be able to accomodate busy people. How do you feel about a 24/24 day/night cycle for the first few days?

Backstory:

In the 1960's, a top secret military program was started in preparation for the threat of full-scale nuclear war. A huge underground cavern was dug underneath the badlands of Death Valley, California. It was here that the United States military established its nuclear-scenario operations base, codenamed: Iron Cross. It was designed to withstand a nuclear assault on the continental United States of America, stocked with enough provisions to last over 100 years of isolation.

But the war didn't come. The base, however, would remain as a vital part of the US Military. From the 70's, through the latter part of the century, the underground facility was used as an advanced medical research center. Different military projects were developed and tested in the isolated compound, primarily focusing on extraordinary abilities... the creation of super soldiers. Psychokinetics, genome alteration, and drug development were the primary points of research, and breakthroughs were achieved.

Nobody knew when and where the first bomb fell. But it would spark the third world war. The scientists and soldiers who were inside the safety of the Iron Cross could only watch in horror as man set out on a path of self-extinction. Sattelites brought feeds of atomic bombs going off all around the world. Superpower against superpower, in a show of power and destruction. In the end, the world left behind by the war was a barren one.

One hundred years have passed since the doors and hatches of the Iron Cross were sealed. They are about to open once again...

...but these are not your memories. These are the memories of real men that have been passed on to you. These memories implanted into your brains, along with your education, your habits, your skills, and your abilities. You are genetically bred humans, and you have risen from your stasis chambers, ready to leave the confines of the Iron Cross. This is how civilization begins anew.


Sign-ups (I am aiming for about 12 players, more would be better.)
1. path12 - Fool, Killed Night 4
2. hoopsguy - Alpha Wolf, Lynched Day 3
3. saldana - Wolfling, Lynched Day 7
4. PurdueBrad - Seer, Killed Night 1
5. ArlingtonColt - Magistrate
6. st.cronin - Villager, Lynched Day 1
7. RendeR - Villager, Lynched Day 4
8. jeheinz72 - Villager
9. oliegirl - Inquisitive, Killed Night 5
10. DaddyTorgo - Herbalist, Killed Night 3
11. Antmeister - Villager, Killed Night 6
12. Chief Rum - Villager, Lynched Day 6
13. EagleFan - Brutal Wolf, Lynched by Duke Day 2
14. RealDeal - Wolfshade, Lynched Day 5
15. ntndeacon - Witness
16. Barkeep49 - Holy Mark
17. Passacaglia - Unholy Mark, Killed by Brutal Wolf Day 2

Day 1 will be on Monday, 10:01 AM CST (or earlier, depends if my meeting pushes through. If it does, I will post this as early as possible) . Any votes cast BEFORE this time will not count.
Deadline will be at Monday, 9:00 PM CST. Votes will be tallied, and Night 1 will begin... lasting until Tuesday, 10:00 AM CST.

[Lathum]

In.

I hope this game doesn't run through until the seventh. It would be diffucult to keep things quiet

[path12]

I'm in.

[hoopsguy]

In.

Does this mean that I won't see you in CoH for awhile?

[saldana]

in

[Barkeep49]

24/24 makes for a very slow game at the start. Personally I prefer a 24/12.

[PurdueBrad]

In if you'll have me

[Neon_Chaos]

24/24 makes for a very slow game at the start. Personally I prefer a 24/12.

24/12 would work too. It's still open to discussion, and we'll see depending on how everyone's schedule and availablity holds up. :)

[ArlingtonColt]

I'm in too.

[st.cronin]

In if you start on Monday, not in if you start earlier.

[RendeR]

In?

[jeheinz72]

In for sure!

[Neon_Chaos]

Updated. Added backstory. This is probably going to be sweet. :)

[jeheinz72]

Sounds awesome. Let's get some more signups and kick this bad boy off?
I'd love to at least get my role before the weekend, when I won't get on much if at all (people in town + DMB Concert = hungover).

[Neon_Chaos]

We're probably aiming for a Monday start date, just because everyone's so busy this week and weekend. :)

(City of Heroes stuff... lol)

[Lorena]

In.

Does this mean that I won't see you in CoH for awhile?

Yeah right!

If I can be an alien and suck people's brains out, count me it.

[oliegirl]

Can't start a new civilization without women...I'm in

[DaddyTorgo]

IN MOTHERFUCKERS!

[jeheinz72]

Let's get some roles out!

[Neon_Chaos]

Will be accepting applications until probably Saturday. Sunday, the Alpha Wolf role will be selected, and the wolf names will be given to me by Monday morning.

What kind of schedule are you guys looking to play this on, if we start by monday?

I'm thinking 24-hour days are probably going to bore you guys to death.

I can go with a 9 PM Central deadline for the day actions, and a 10 AM central deadline for the night actions.

If you have an idea of how you want to schedule this game, it would be helpful for me to run it as a GM. :)

Or do you guys wanna start now? :D

[Antmeister]

I'm in like the heat of sin. So count me in.

[Antmeister]

This will be my first non-cronin game.

[jeheinz72]

I like the sked a lot, personally.

[Schmidty]

Easy, normal rules? Good.

It's been a long hiatus,and if there's room, I'll be in.

[Neon_Chaos]

Easy, normal rules? Good.

It's been a long hiatus,and if there's room, I'll be in.

In.

[path12]

Schmidty seems quiet.

[hoopsguy]

Not as quiet as Swaggs. That guy freaks me out when he is quiet.

[RendeR]

No Cronin? WTF?? who he hel do I vote for on day 1 NOW????

[jeheinz72]

No Cronin? WTF?? who he hel do I vote for on day 1 NOW????

He's on the list

[path12]

And DC's playing? Woot!

[Chief Rum]

In if there's room, since Barkeep left me standing at the altar. ;)

[EagleFan]

In if there's room.

[Neon_Chaos]

There's always room!

[RendeR]

He was just testing my paranoia....

[RealDeal]

I haven't played one of these in a while. In if there's room.

[ntndeacon]

in if room for one more crazy android wit the memories of a villager. :D

[Barkeep49]

I can't sit out a game. I'm in.

[Neon_Chaos]

added.

[Passacaglia]

count me in

[path12]

I can't sit out a game. I'm in.

I know what you mean....I keep telling myself I'm going to sit out a couple, but, well, here I am.

[hoopsguy]

From what I saw on the game in the other forum, jeheinz is going to be a fun first-time player.

[hoopsguy]

Dola (think I can slip one in at this stage, right?),

Welcome back, RealDeal.

[Neon_Chaos]

Alright. Have you guys read the rules? Link in the original post. Updated last night.

That will basically apply for the game. Note the rules on posting votes. I really want to be strict about it.

If there are any questions regarding the rules, now would be a good time to ask.

Everyone good with the schedule?

Saturday Night, the Alpha Wolf role will go out. He can PM me the names of the players he wants on his team.

Sunday will be Day 0, the story will be told (by me. the ever-omnipotent GM. :) ). Roles will go out at Day 0. Night 0 is basically just there as buffer. Feel free to accuse who you think was randomly selected as the Alpha Wolf. :P

Day 1 will be on Monday, 10:01 AM CST. Any votes cast BEFORE this time will not count.

Deadline will be at 9:00 PM CST. Votes will be tallied, and Night 1 will begin... lasting until 10:00 AM CST.

[jeheinz72]

From what I saw on the game in the other forum, jeheinz is going to be a fun first-time player.

Haha, why? Because I'm a blabber-mouth? I swear I have like half the posts in that thread. I need to learn the ol' internal monologue.

[hoopsguy]

Thoughts on Rules:
- I'm excited to see the "one wolf picks other players" idea out there again.
- Are all other roles determined after the wolf declares? So everyone is vanilla up to that time? Or can the alpha wolf end up plucking potential roles away from the villagers with his choices?
- in general I hate the witness role
- I like the fool/seer dynamic outlined here

[hoopsguy]

Haha, why? Because I'm a blabber-mouth? I swear I have like half the posts in that thread. I need to learn the ol' internal monologue.

Yeah, because you won't be the "two posts in six days" newcomer. You are either doing a nice job as an active wolf or whiffing badly as a villager, but either way it is a lot more fun to read along when people are actually posting.

[Neon_Chaos]

Thoughts on Rules:
- I'm excited to see the "one wolf picks other players" idea out there again.
- Are all other roles determined after the wolf declares? So everyone is vanilla up to that time? Or can the alpha wolf end up plucking potential roles away from the villagers with his choices?
- in general I hate the witness role
- I like the fool/seer dynamic outlined here

The roles are determined after the wolf declares. So everyone is vanilla until the wolf declares.

The fool/seer dynamic has a potential to be fun when coupled with the Unholy Mark, the Wolfshade, and the Wolfling.

[hoopsguy]

Wolf roles, outside of the Alpha - are these determined randomly?

For example, Alpha picks three wolves. Is he picking people for specific wolf slots (standard wolf, brutal wolf, cunning wolf - to use generic terms instead of game specific ones) or does he know that he is picking Player A as brutal wolf, Player B as standard wolf, etc?

[Neon_Chaos]

Wolf roles, outside of the Alpha - are these determined randomly?

For example, Alpha picks three wolves. Is he picking people for specific wolf slots (standard wolf, brutal wolf, cunning wolf - to use generic terms instead of game specific ones) or does he know that he is picking Player A as brutal wolf, Player B as standard wolf, etc?

wolf roles are picked randomly, outside of alpha. alpha will not be assigned any other wolf role.

[Lorena]

Please remove my name Neon

[Neon_Chaos]

Please remove my name Neon

Done. I swear I remembered that you signed up. :D

[Schmidty]

Please remove my name Neon

Why?

[EagleFan]

Is it too early to vote for cronin? :D

[Crim]

Well, he has been quiet.

[RealDeal]

This is my first WW game in 18 months. The last one I did was Animal Farm long ago.

I see no Chubby and no Blade, so I'm looking forward to this ;)

[Lathum]

lol

[Lorena]

Why?

Something'll piss me off and I'll end up saying some stupid shit and get stressed. It happens every game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Day 0:

You all wake up from your deep slumber. You look around, and you are inside a room lined metallic sidings. You head towards the only door in your room... and find that you can't open it. You notice a numeric pad by the door, and, as if by instinct, you punch in seven numbers. The pad chirps a couple of notes, and the door unlocks itself.

As you walk out, you head toward a large room. Monitors cover all the sides of the room. In the middle of the room, you see a circular sphere. You also notice the other people around. They seem to have come from rooms of their own, and they all have that same dizzy look.

The sphere suddenly lights up. A hologram of an aged man is shown.

"Greetings. I take it that you have been able to rest? My name is not important. I am the man responsible for your existence. By the time you read this message, I would have probably passed on. This, is a recording of my memories, and it has been transferred into the computer mainframe before you... Neon Chaos. Of course, this doesn't mean that I cannot impart my knowledge to all of you. You are mankind's last hope, a genetically superior race, ready to brave the hazards of the new world outside. You are Project: Villager.

You will find that despite coming from one singular project, there are certain individuals that have different powers than you do. And there are individuals that have no powers at all. It has all been designed to allow your new society to thrive.

Rest once again, a new recorded message will show up at night, there is much to discuss before you leave the confines of the Iron Cross.

ALPHA WOLF HAS BEEN SELECTED.

[hoopsguy]

Let me be the first to announce that I am not the Alpha Wolf.

[Barkeep49]

Here's how I read this:
Let me be the first to announce that I am the Alpha Wolf.

All I can say is I got all excited to check my PMs but didn't have anything in there from Neon.

[hoopsguy]

BK, I probably would play it the same way if I was the wolf. But this was more of an attempt to make fun of the old "villager checking in" stuff that happens every game.

I have no idea if I'm going to be a vanilla villager, roled villager, vanilla wolf, or roled wolf. But if I'm going to be on team wolf then it will be by virtue of being selected by the alpha rather than being the alpha wolf.

[Schmidty]

Something'll piss me off and I'll end up saying some stupid shit and get stressed. It happens every game.

So does that mean you're never playing again?

[Schmidty]

Dola.

I'm actually thinking about backing out, because I start working nights again next tuesday (11 p.m. - 7 a.m. PST), and sleeping most of the day. Once I get my laptop on October 7th, I'll be able to play more, because I can use the wireless my work provides.

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, I would try to let Neon know one way or the other ASAP. He would either need to re-balance roles or get a replacement player, either of which requires moderator work/decisions.

Hope to see you in this one if you can make the schedule work. If we are going with a 24/12 schedule early I'm not sure how much play you would be missing between Tue-Sun (depends on weekend schedules, I guess).

[Lathum]

Sorry but I have to back out.

My families best friend passed away early this morning unexpectantly. I'll be going up this week for the funeral, etc...

Needles to say I am devestated and will be in no frame of mind to be active.

[Neon_Chaos]

Since roles haven't been passed out yet, Schimdty and Lathum have been removed from the game, seeing as they won't be able to play.

[DaddyTorgo]

alive and checking in

[RendeR]

Telle is available to play if you want to add someone for the people withdrawing.

She's been busy and hasn't been abl to sign up.

[EagleFan]

Alive and checking in.... when can I vote cronin dammit.... :D

[ntndeacon]

why are we checking in and claiming to be "alive"? is the only werewolf around dead? I think noy. Will the werewolf's supporters be dead when they too become werewolves? No. If we prick them will they not swallow us down whole?

[EagleFan]

why are we checking in and claiming to be "alive"? is the only werewolf around dead? I think noy. Will the werewolf's supporters be dead when they too become werewolves? No. If we prick them will they not swallow us down whole?

Not sure about that, but what I am sure is that we need to vote cronin....

[EagleFan]

dola: or whoever it was that killed me in the upstairs/downstairs game.... :D

[hoopsguy]

I'm not the hardest sell on a Cronin vote after the Golf game :)

[Passacaglia]

This is my first WW game in 18 months. The last one I did was Animal Farm long ago.

I see no Chubby and no Blade, so I'm looking forward to this ;)

Animal Farm was less than 18 months ago.

[path12]

Something'll piss me off and I'll end up saying some stupid shit and get stressed. It happens every game.

:(

[path12]

Checking in, BTW. In and out this weekend.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'll post night 0 tomorrow.

Day 1 might start earlier on Monday, I have a meeting early morning and I might not be online at 10 AM.

[Neon_Chaos]

BTW. If you don't get a role PM'd to you, then consider yourself as a villager.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I'm considering myself a villager then.

[hoopsguy]

Ok I'm considering myself a villager then. Thanks for the making it easy for me, Neon.

This is about how BK's post read to me.

Two can play this game.

[hoopsguy]

Sunday will be Day 0, the story will be told (by me. the ever-omnipotent GM. http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif ). Roles will go out at Day 0. Night 0 is basically just there as buffer. Feel free to accuse who you think was randomly selected as the Alpha Wolf. :P

My initial question was what are we supposed to do with Night 0? So I pulled up this quote. I'll play along with the "pick the wolves" idea.

I would expect that a veteran player would want to avoid picking other vets and a newer player would want to pick names he recognized from games he read previously.

I've seen this mechanic one time before, when NTN got to pick the bad guys in my comic game. He selected Blade, LoneStarGirl, Path, and WVUFAN. Part of the considerations in that game were the powers associated with the hero/villain, but I'll maintain that picking the player was a huge element of that decision. Maybe NTN can comment on this further ...

[Passacaglia]

I think Neon meant that if we don't get a PM when he posts Night 0 tomorrow (which is today), THEN we should consider ourselves villagers.

[Passacaglia]

My initial question was what are we supposed to do with Night 0? So I pulled up this quote. I'll play along with the "pick the wolves" idea.

I would expect that a veteran player would want to avoid picking other vets and a newer player would want to pick names he recognized from games he read previously.

I've seen this mechanic one time before, when NTN got to pick the bad guys in my comic game. He selected Blade, LoneStarGirl, Path, and WVUFAN. Part of the considerations in that game were the powers associated with the hero/villain, but I'll maintain that picking the player was a huge element of that decision. Maybe NTN can comment on this further ...

Has the alpha wolf already submitted choices? I'm not sure we should be discussing choice strategy if the choice isn't made yet.

[Passacaglia]

On the other hand, maybe I should be sure I'm in. My name isn't in the first post.

[DaddyTorgo]

as for me checking in "alive" I meant that I myself, me personally daddytorgo is alive.

and I almost freaked when I realized I didn't vote last night, I got so wrapped up in the FM08 demo that I couldn't even remember to actually fall asleep in bed!

glad it was a no-vote night

[oliegirl]

I'm here...checking in. I'll be around today for a few hours, then out for a while and back tonight...

[PurdueBrad]

Checking in and no PM, so villager here. I'll check in on and off today.

[ntndeacon]

My initial question was what are we supposed to do with Night 0? So I pulled up this quote. I'll play along with the "pick the wolves" idea.

I would expect that a veteran player would want to avoid picking other vets and a newer player would want to pick names he recognized from games he read previously.

I've seen this mechanic one time before, when NTN got to pick the bad guys in my comic game. He selected Blade, LoneStarGirl, Path, and WVUFAN. Part of the considerations in that game were the powers associated with the hero/villain, but I'll maintain that picking the player was a huge element of that decision. Maybe NTN can comment on this further ...

Sure.

In the comic game, my idea was to choose a mix of players both in power and in my knowledge of them. I chose Blade as he was thought of as a very good wolf and stirred up the pot clouding the waters for the villagers. His role was not that important to me. I had seen LSG perform very well in the previous couple of games, although I liked the idea of her character which I saw as a possible hidden powerhouse in that setting. Path's selectin was all about getting a known powerhouse, and Silver Surfer was one of the more powerful characters around. Finally I chose WVUFAN because I thought of him as a newcomer and unlikely to be thought of as chosen...(I had not realized he had played in games before, I realized only during the game that he had. turned out to be an inspired choice I think though. :) ) So as Hoops said there was a fair amount of considering the people involved more than the characters.

[Neon_Chaos]

Night 0:

Night comes, and you all gather in the room once again. The holograph comes up once more. The old man goes into a diatribe about how all of you are going to change the world once you are released. He is then interrupted by another man.

Young Man: "Sir, I believe we have a problem..."

Old Man: "What is it? Hmmm... That IS strange. Perhaps we should run more tests."

Young Man: "Yes sir."

He turns back to talk to you.

Old Man: "As you can see, we are deep into research and new developments. Do not worry. By the time you have awakened, our job would have been finished. It is important that I talk to you about the glorious piece of machinery in front of you. It is named "Neon Chaos". Not only does it display these holograms, but it analyzes every single heartbeat and vital sign of everyone in the facility. Neon Chaos is also responsible for opening the hatch to the outer door. It is a sophisticated machine, containing an almost human-like Artificial Intelligence. Now, I have left it upon each individual to actually keep their identity as their own... Neon Chaos does not know your true genetic data. The only way to view it would be to place someone in the Degeneticization Chamber, and have Neon Chaos dissolve that being's matter in order to fully synthesize and analyze his or her genetic structure. Quite unneccessary, I tell you. As it is, Neon Chaos will most likely open the hatch in about 12 hours so. Make humanity proud; live long and fruitful lives.

Roles Have Been Given Out.

There are no night actions for Night 0.

[RealDeal]

when do we find out about roles?

Also, when does the game start? I won't be on much this evening, but should have plenty of time starting tomorrow.

[Chief Rum]

when do we find out about roles?

Also, when does the game start? I won't be on much this evening, but should have plenty of time starting tomorrow.

You just playing dumb here, or did you not read the post directly before yours? Or are you being sly to make us think you don't have a role? ;)

I am guessing from lack of PMs that I am a rather ordinary villager with no skills whatsoever (that I am aware of).

[hoopsguy]

Neon, can you clarify what the schedule is for this game in terms of day/night actions?

- 24/12, 24/24, or something else?
- are we on Day 1 or Night 0 right now?

[Barkeep49]

when do we find out about roles?

Also, when does the game start? I won't be on much this evening, but should have plenty of time starting tomorrow.
Neon has said that no pm = villager.

[Neon_Chaos]

Please see post one for when Day 1 starts. We're going with the schedule posted there.

[Passacaglia]

You just playing dumb here, or did you not read the post directly before yours? Or are you being sly to make us think you don't have a role? ;)

I am guessing from lack of PMs that I am a rather ordinary villager with no skills whatsoever (that I am aware of).

I thought that was fishy, too.

[RendeR]

I got nothin...literally, joe schmoe villager here.

[oliegirl]

I'm here...glad I didn't miss a vote, or anything super important. As usual, I'm a regular old villager...

[Chief Rum]

Given the schedule here, I will be long gone to work before I am able to vote, and I work both jobs both Monday and Tuesday. So I am faced with not being able to vote for either of the first days unless I can get to a computer, which is usually a hardship in the short time I have between my jobs.

I'll try, but I wanted to give fair warning ahead of time.

[ArlingtonColt]

Villager checking in!

[Neon_Chaos]

Day 1:

You all wake up in a start. Alarms were blaring off. You struggle to understand what is going on, and all rush to the central hall. Neon Chaos whirrs and buzzes, and one screen lights up.

WOLF VIRUS DETECTED.
CONTAMINATION: CONTAINED.
HATCH RELEASE PROCEDURES TERMINATED.
WOLF VIRUS MUST BE ELIMINATED.


Wolf virus? What is this? Neon Chaos then uses the hologram display to show you a recorded video. It is the old man, you assume that he is a scientist of some sort.

Old Man: "Project: Wolf, has been a catastrophic failure. We had envisioned a super-human race, capable to dealing with the harsh and dangerous world that they would encounter once the hatches opened. Upon testing, the subjects experienced spikes in strength, speed, and intelligence. The sideffects, however, where severe. The test subjects suffered from mild dementia, severe psychosis, and a penchant for rage and the desire to kill. Over the course of two days, it is no longer a genetic characteristic, somehow it has evolved into a virus. I suspect one of my staff is responsible for this. We hope to contain this virus as much as can."

The holograph ends, and another one appears. The man looks like he hadn't slept in days, or weeks even.

Old Man: "We have contained the virus to one subject. We have genetically codenamed him as Alpha Wolf. We are not certain if the virus is going to evolve in a different way depending on the genetic makeup of each indivual. For that matter, we have undergone through different projects. Codename: Seer, whose geneteic makeup include the ability to detect the virus on an individual upon several hours of concentration and silence."

The holograph ends, and one more is shown.

Old Man: "The virus is spreading... we didn't contain it as we thought we did. In the rush to find a quick cure... we have implanted two codes into two specific genetic makeups. The Herbalist code, which grants that specific human a skill to create a temporary pherromone that would drive away any Wolf Virus infectee. We have also implanted the Magistrate Code, a specific one-time override into Neon Chaos' judgement analysis and framework. We don't have much time... the virus seems to have affected me as well... Neon Chaos' database has been updated with all our top secret programs... I cannot detail them all. I have sealed myself and my men in the incinerator in hopes quelling this virus... find the Wolves... you must destroy the Wolf Virus..."

It is the final holograph.

Neon Chaos buzzes and whirs. The screen lights up again.

SELECT INDIVIDUAL FOR DEGENETICIZATION.

Day 1 Begins. Remember the rules for posting votes. Invalid vote formats (i.e. those that are not stand-alone posts) will not be counted. NO LYNCH IS NOT ALLOWED.

[Passacaglia]

Still no PM for me. Plain villager.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmmm

[jeheinz72]

So no PM = villager?

Okie doke, villager then.

[RealDeal]

Villager checking in.

And sorry, I don't always read all the crap that everyone says before the game begins :)

If anyone remembers me from when I played back a while ago, my schtick is that villagers screw themselves by not disclosing info for too long into the game. This opinion has gotten me killed by wolves (who don't want to see villagers putting info on the table early) and by other villagers (see that awful warhammer 40K game).

Earlier disclosure avoids a bunch of turns of informationless fratricide by villagers, and it mitigates the risk of villagers accidentally killing an important role early (see the string em up game) where the duke got lynched 1st turn and duked the seer. Also it avoids us losing people before they ever got to use their role (how many games did the seer wait too long and get killed before telling anyone what they saw?)

So anyway, please think about this as you play. To be clear, I'm not saying the seer or anyone should tell the world who he is the first turn, but if you are a role which can defend themselves, or has limited utility but can be verified, try to err on the side of getting us the info earlier rather than later.

[oliegirl]

I see both sides of RealDeal's point...we did a mass reveal in the last game (upstairs downstairs) and it worked great, but that was kind of an odd game and I've never been in another game that did a mass reveal like that.

We need to get some conversation/dialogue going today so we have something to base a vote on tonight. I'm pretty slow at work now so I'm going to be going through to see who has not checked in and stuff like that...I'll be in here pretty much all day for anyone who wants to talk and try and formulate a game plan.

[RealDeal]

Mass reveals can work in certain games, but I think in a fairly vanilla WW game like this, it would be tough. But even if you get one or two trusted people in the first couple of turns, it makes life a lot easier.

[hoopsguy]

OK, going back to an earlier topic - the people likely to be picked as wolves. I'm not sure how much value there is in this without knowing who is the alpha wolf, but here are my expanded thoughts on the player list and viability as a wolf selection:

The overriding factor in picking wolves should be to avoid getting scanned. Without a seer scan to get a wolf, the wolves have to feel good about their ability to manipulate a vote when in a pinch. So picking vets is tricky - if it was me doing the picking I would either avoid this list entirely or pick at max one person from here.

Likely to be early scan: Hoops, Barkeep, Chief Rum, Cronin, Path, Saldana, Pass

Does this make these people less likely to be picked as wolves? Depends on who is doing the picking - getting the Alpha early in this game should provide a lot of insight.

There is also a fairly good chance that the people in the above list will be early night kills if they are not villagers, based upon past games.

[Passacaglia]

Any thoughts on how many wolves? With the ability to choose your team, I can't see more than 3 wolves total.

[Passacaglia]

There is also a fairly good chance that the people in the above list will be early night kills if they are not villagers, based upon past games.

I agree with this. If we're not going to worry about vets because we're figuring the alpha wolf wouln't want them, then the wolves might as well just off them based on the fact that they can be good villagers.

[ntndeacon]

OK, going back to an earlier topic - the people likely to be picked as wolves. I'm not sure how much value there is in this without knowing who is the alpha wolf, but here are my expanded thoughts on the player list and viability as a wolf selection:

The overriding factor in picking wolves should be to avoid getting scanned. Without a seer scan to get a wolf, the wolves have to feel good about their ability to manipulate a vote when in a pinch. So picking vets is tricky - if it was me doing the picking I would either avoid this list entirely or pick at max one person from here.

Likely to be early scan: Hoops, Barkeep, Chief Rum, Cronin, Path, Saldana, Pass

Does this make these people less likely to be picked as wolves? Depends on who is doing the picking - getting the Alpha early in this game should provide a lot of insight.

There is also a fairly good chance that the people in the above list will be early night kills if they are not villagers, based upon past games.


I wouldn't be surprised if someone on your list does end up as a wolf. Let's assume someone less noticable is the Alpha wolf, then getting at least one of the better known wolves would be a way to spark good conversation in thier provate discussions.

[Passacaglia]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on your list does end up as a wolf. Let's assume someone less noticable is the Alpha wolf, then getting at least one of the better known wolves would be a way to spark good conversation in thier provate discussions.

How many people are in the game? I see 16 in the first post -- if I'm in, that makes 17. Hoops had 7 on his list -- I think it's too good to be true to think we can eliminate that many right off the bat, for this reason.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm offended that I wasn't on hoops' list. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

[Neon_Chaos]

I accidentally deleted Pass' name on the list when I corrected after Lathum and Schmidty left. Put him back in.

[Passacaglia]

i'm offended that I wasn't on hoops' list. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

Yeah, and I'm actually surprised I was. You're a much better choice for it than I am.

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe hoops is the alpha wolf trying to throw us off?

I dunno...i don't think that's likely, but it's an idea to float out there...

[hoopsguy]

I don't think that the whole list is clear - again, that would require someone not on the list to think in the same way that I would think.

The list just represents my early thoughts on what I perceive to be the "right play" with the wolf selections. When I got to choose conversions in the "Thing" game awhile back I took players I considered to be solid, but UTR players - Swaggs and Path are two I recall picking at that time. Of course, the earlier wolves had selected me as their first conversion, nearly losing the game in the process.

[hoopsguy]

i'm offended that I wasn't on hoops' list. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

That is always the risk in putting these lists together - that you end up pissing people off based on your selections.

At some point it becomes silly to make a list if it doesn't really filter. So I had to cut it off where it still made sense.

As a wolf of any sort, I wouldn't be keen on making waves early in the game like this. Let alone as Alpha Wolf, posting a blueprint of my actual thoughts on how to play the role.

[hoopsguy]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on your list does end up as a wolf. Let's assume someone less noticable is the Alpha wolf, then getting at least one of the better known wolves would be a way to spark good conversation in thier provate discussions.

If someone noticeable is the Alpha, I think the last thing they would want to do is grab another "noticeable" player. If the goal is to win the game, then why put a second wolf role at risk like that?

I'll put it this way - hypothetically, there is no way that I would grab Barkeep as a wolf teammate if I was playing as the Alpha Wolf. And I would expect he would say the same thing.

[Passacaglia]

That is always the risk in putting these lists together - that you end up pissing people off based on your selections.

At some point it becomes silly to make a list if it doesn't really filter. So I had to cut it off where it still made sense.

As a wolf of any sort, I wouldn't be keen on making waves early in the game like this. Let alone as Alpha Wolf, posting a blueprint of my actual thoughts on how to play the role.

Well yeah -- as a wolf, you'd be lying about it!

I think arguments could be made either way. You could choose guys from that list, and figure they won't get much heat, because -- why would the alpha wolf choose quality vets, knowing that that's who we'll take?

In the end, the alpha wolf will probably just choose people he likes chatting with about the game, or people he thinks he meshes well with. On the other hand, maybe he'll choose people he doesn't interact with often...

I got nothing.

[hoopsguy]

Any thoughts on how many wolves? With the ability to choose your team, I can't see more than 3 wolves total.

Depends on the abilities of the wolves and the villagers, I would guess. 3-4 wolves sounds right to me.

Of course, since no one received a PM from Neon and everyone is a vanilla villager I hope that there are no more than three wolves total.

[path12]

If someone noticeable is the Alpha, I think the last thing they would want to do is grab another "noticeable" player. If the goal is to win the game, then why put a second wolf role at risk like that?

I'll put it this way - hypothetically, there is no way that I would grab Barkeep as a wolf teammate if I was playing as the Alpha Wolf. And I would expect he would say the same thing.

I agree with you on this point. But it all depends on the Alpha. If the Alpha is a newer/less experienced player, I would expect that at least one or two vets would be picked just for advice/strategy discussions.

My feeling on this topic overall is that it is something to keep in mind, but based on the superhero game the idea can be turned into a very effective tangent by those who are chosen by the Alpha.

[Passacaglia]

It's probably just that Neon forgot to send out the PMs. Doh!

[jeheinz72]

Well, can't say I have much to add on who-would-pick-who Wolf wise. Is that how we're going here? It just seems too much like a shot in the dark and

A) A smart Alpha Wolf wouldn't make it too easy to decide

B) A smart pack of wolves could manipulate such a discussion easily.

C) What if the Alpha Wolf is a seasoned vet, and decided he'd just pick up the best vets he could, figuring at least he has the "talent" to his advantage?

[hoopsguy]

Path, I'm up for any other lines of discussion that you think are compelling on Day 1 :)

Seriously, at the end of the day we are going to likely end up with a pseudo-random vote. I would rather have it based off of some conversation than just picking a name out of a hat. Is this topic a good one? Don't know ... I'm mildly interested to hear what people think on the matter.

[jeheinz72]

Seriously, at the end of the day we are going to likely end up with a pseudo-random vote. I would rather have it based off of some conversation than just picking a name out of a hat. Is this topic a good one? Don't know ... I'm mildly interested to hear what people think on the matter.

No, that does make some sense, just exploring options. Maybe that combined with who hasn't checked in? Could give us a decent sub-set of people to pick from.

[PurdueBrad]

I know I'm a newbie saying this, but I do agree that there is at least one veteran wolf out there. Hoops' list may not be a bad way to pick for the random day one vote although I'm not yet seeing anyone jump out ahead of the others there. Otherwise, I'm pretty much following this conversation to see where it leads.

[Passacaglia]

I know I'm a newbie saying this, but I do agree that there is at least one veteran wolf out there. Hoops' list may not be a bad way to pick for the random day one vote although I'm not yet seeing anyone jump out ahead of the others there. Otherwise, I'm pretty much following this conversation to see where it leads.

If we want to see where it leads, we might as well make things happen with it.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[RealDeal]

Well, 17 total players, and roughly half are "veterans". If we assume three wolves, then probably is at least one "veteran" who is a wolf, but that doesn't really tell us much since it's just a percentage thing.

[Lathum]

i'm offended that I wasn't on hoops' list. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

me too

[hoopsguy]

me too

You are on my "Internet poker donkey" list, if that makes you feel any better.

[RealDeal]

I'm voting for Lathum because I seem to remember he wolf-killed me in the last WW game I played. Obviously, this is a placeholder vote I will probably change later.

vote Lathum

[hoopsguy]

RealDeal, unless I'm mistaken Lathum is not in this game.

I think I voted for TazFTW that way once upon a time ...

[hoopsguy]

Dola - that makes for one very interesting placeholder vote :)

[RealDeal]

god, ok maybe I should read the whole thread and the rules and all that good stuff. Now that we are in the workweek, I will be more focused. Weekends, always tougher for me.

unvote Lathum

[Lathum]

Jesus, I am suspiscous in games I'm not even playing in

[st.cronin]

This is my first non-cronin game, too.

[path12]

Path, I'm up for any other lines of discussion that you think are compelling on Day 1 :)

Seriously, at the end of the day we are going to likely end up with a pseudo-random vote. I would rather have it based off of some conversation than just picking a name out of a hat. Is this topic a good one? Don't know ... I'm mildly interested to hear what people think on the matter.

Sorry if I came off like I was blowing the topic off, that wasn't the intent -- and for day 1 it's as good a topic as any to explore.

My thought was as above, I think your list is a decent starting point (though those aren't players I'd be likely to vote off day 1 anyway without some sort of an extra reason). At the same time, I also agree that those would be the sort of folks I'd think were going to be getting scanned early in the game which again makes them a less desirable day 1 target (for both votes and night kills.....since staying alive tends to put more suspicion on the vets naturally).

My day 1 rationale remains focused on those who don't check in. I haven't looked at that list yet.

[Barkeep49]

If I was the alpha wolf, I would, as hoops suggests, not pick one of the "BIG" names out there, though I might be tempted to pick CR just because he's such a good villager. However, if I wasn't one of the people on the list, and I was the alpha wolf, I'd pick someone from that list just because of this line of thinking. My rough guess is that 1 person from hoops list is a wolf, and 2 are not, assuming 3 wolves. If there are 4 wolves, which I consider less likely, but possible, then that last wolf could go either way, mostly depending on whether the alpha is a list player.

So, by my math, there is a 1/6 chance of someone on the list being a wolf (I being a villager can rule myself out as a wolf) and a 1/5 of someone not on the list being a wolf. I will thus be voting for someone not on the list for now.

Oh, and for the night kill I think there's a higher chance of someone on the list being the kill, though with this being such a huge topic of discussion the wolves could leave the list alone just to raise suspicion at this point.

[Barkeep49]

Oh and I'm not sure any of the votes cast have been legal. I would recommend people take a look at how Neon wants the votes, especially because he's indicated he's going to be strict in his counting.

[st.cronin]

I think the list has no value. If I were the alpha wolf I would use random.org to pick the wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm pissed that the alpha wolf didn't pick me. I'm bored of being a villegar...i'm coming after you apha-wolf!!!

[RealDeal]

Yep, all votes most be standalone posts.

Votes should be in blue, and unvotes should be in red

[st.cronin]

VOTE BARKEEP49

Not neccesarily suspicious of him, but he did say he wanted to take a game off...

[st.cronin]

VOTE BARKEEP49

Blue? Ok.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm going to vote for someone who doesn't vote properly, since RealDeal just posted the voting procedures

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe neon uses some odd filipino-skin where blue really stands out? LOL

[ntndeacon]

Well, can't say I have much to add on who-would-pick-who Wolf wise. Is that how we're going here? It just seems too much like a shot in the dark and

A) A smart Alpha Wolf wouldn't make it too easy to decide

B) A smart pack of wolves could manipulate such a discussion easily.

C) What if the Alpha Wolf is a seasoned vet, and decided he'd just pick up the best vets he could, figuring at least he has the "talent" to his advantage?

A & B are certainly true. C however forgets that most of the players here have played for a bit. And without loss of talent could choose others besides the list totally.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, I don't think your other vote in blue is good either based on the rules. I've posted the Voting section in its entirety from the initial page.

V. VOTING:
For the sake of counting votes and making them stand out completely, the following voting format will be employed:

Only valid votes will be counted. Votes must be stand-alone posts, in bold, and colored blue. Casing does not matter, nor does punctuation. Any vote that does not follow this format is INVALID.

example:
Vote Skydog

Unvoting is similar. Unvotes must be stand-alone posts, in bold, and colored red. Casing does not matter. Any unvote that does not follow this format is INVALID.

example:
Unvote Skydog

A combination of an Unvote and a Vote is allowed, see the example:

example:
Unvote Skydog
Vote Skydog

Votes will be tallied at the end of a Day Phase. The player with the most number of votes will be lynched. In case of ties, there will be a specific tiebreaker. The first valid vote cast between the tied players (an unvoted vote does not count) will determine the player to be lynched.

example:

A votes for C
B votes for D
A unvotes C
A votes for D
A unvotes D
A votes for C

D and C are tied. A cast the first vote, however, he unvoted, which means B's vote is the deciding vote. D is thus lynched.

You may NOT vote for a No Lynch.

[Passacaglia]

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[Passacaglia]

Just fixing my vote.

[st.cronin]

VOTE BARKEEP49

[st.cronin]

Thank you hoops.

[path12]

VOTE SALDANA

[path12]

Just because I haven't noticed her check in yet. ;)

[Antmeister]

Hmmm....this is always a difficult day to vote. No one has really said anything worthwhile and we have some no-shows, but that is normal from the few games that I have played. So this is going to be an interesting to watch.

[RendeR]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

[RendeR]

Seriously people, based on the last 2-3 games, how can we NOT vote him out of here on day 1?


;)

[hoopsguy]

Votes as of Post #157:

Purdue - Pass (149)
Barkeep - Cronin (151)
Saldana - Path (153)
Cronin - Render (157)

[RendeR]

I'm here and reading and pondering, but I'm not going to be as vocal as I've been in recent weeks. I've decided that to open one's mouth is to invite suspicion and lynching. I'll still toss out my two pennies every now and then but I'm tired of trying to get stuff moving only to be accused and killed for it.

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, for what it is worth I find the game gets much more boring when trying to scale back your activity level from your usual style. Maybe you will have better luck with it than I did, but I found that I ended up getting killed early more often when I was less active. Go figure.


By the way, when are you going to update your wolves lynches/villagers disemboweled stats in the sig?

[Passacaglia]

RendeR, for what it is worth I find the game gets much more boring when trying to scale back your activity level from your usual style. Maybe you will have better luck with it than I did, but I found that I ended up getting killed early more often when I was less active. Go figure.


By the way, when are you going to update your wolves lynches/villagers disemboweled stats in the sig?

If he updates it daily, that'll be a big tip-off.

[RealDeal]

I'm ready to stir the pot some. This should get things going.

[RealDeal]

vote render

[Passacaglia]

such drama

[jeheinz72]

So we've got 5 votes in for 5 different people?

I'm new to WW, but I'm fairly certain that isn't a good thing, not that I have anything new to really add.

[saldana]

Just because I haven't noticed her check in yet. ;)

you're a dick :D


there i checked in...happy now;)

[RendeR]

vote render


You sir, a just plain annoying =)

[RendeR]

If he updates it daily, that'll be a big tip-off.


Wouldn't it though? I need to remove that altogether, I've lost count....

[path12]

I'm here and reading and pondering, but I'm not going to be as vocal as I've been in recent weeks. I've decided that to open one's mouth is to invite suspicion and lynching. I'll still toss out my two pennies every now and then but I'm tired of trying to get stuff moving only to be accused and killed for it.

I find this very suspicious. What are you trying to hide? ;)

[RendeR]

Just because I haven't noticed her check in yet. ;)


Wait...>saldana's a CHICK????

[Neon_Chaos]

Wait...>saldana's a CHICK????

Yeah. How come you never knew?


:rolleyes::D;)

[Neon_Chaos]

God. I love that running joke.

[jeheinz72]

Vote Render

[jeheinz72]

I'm not digging the "I'm going to be intentionally quieter" bit.

It's either counterproductive if you're innocent or an easy mask to hide behind if you're a Wolf.

[oliegirl]

Someone needs to do something suspicious and wolfish...it's been very quiet today.

[ntndeacon]

Someone needs to do something suspicious and wolfish...it's been very quiet today.

Oh I am sure it wont be too long til a villager does something to appear wolvish it might be a bit longer til a wolf does a wolvish act.

[ntndeacon]

Vote RealDeal

[ntndeacon]

Vote RealDeal

[ntndeacon]

darn it!

[ntndeacon]

Vote RealDeal

[ntndeacon]

there we go. I will make the note though that the 1st to double up on anyone was jeheinz

[hoopsguy]

I would love to know why people are selecting some of their candidates.

Pass - I see why he selected Purdue, as he cited a post
Cronin - why Barkeep?
Path - Saldana had not checked in at time of vote
RendeR - he likes to vote Cronin? Past game history?
RealDeal - why RendeR?
Heinz - listed reason for vote

[RealDeal]

There are never any good reasons to vote for anyone on the first day. I voted for render because at the time he was one of the few people with any votes at the time I voted, and I wanted to get two on someone to see if it caused any ripples.

As always with first day votes, it's a placeholder as much as anything, and I am likely to switch at some point before the end of the day turn.

[hoopsguy]

RealDeal, RendeR did not have a vote at the time you cast it - Heinz followed right behind you in voting for RendeR, but you put the first vote on him.

I agree that the logic on a Day 1 vote is generally pretty flimsy, but there normally is something that prompts a decision for one person out of 16 (obviously every person excludes themselves from consideration).

[hoopsguy]

NTN, I'll add you to the above question - why RealDeal?

[RealDeal]

I see what I did, Hoops. I used your list on post 158 and read it backwards. I thought Cronin had voted for Render, but instead Render had voted for Cronin, so according to my logic, I should have voted for Cronin.

Doesn't matter anyway at this point.

[PurdueBrad]

I don't think I've ever done this but I'm going to put a vote on someone for putting a vote on me. I don't have any better reasoning yet for Pass or anyone else though.

[PurdueBrad]

Vote Passacaglia

[RealDeal]

The retalitory vote is a perfectly good reason on Day 1 :)

[st.cronin]

I would love to know why people are selecting some of their candidates.

Pass - I see why he selected Purdue, as he cited a post
Cronin - why Barkeep?
Path - Saldana had not checked in at time of vote
RendeR - he likes to vote Cronin? Past game history?
RealDeal - why RendeR?
Heinz - listed reason for vote

Why not Barkeep? Its more or less a random pick, of a guy that I think makes a dangerous wolf. Typically on day 1 I hate to vote for a new player, and I don't like to try to lynch the same person day 1 game after game. Day 1 I look at the player list, and think about who scares me most as a wolf, and put a vote on them, and usually don't change it no matter what.

[Lathum]

I don't like to try to lynch the same person day 1 game after game.

LIAR

[hoopsguy]

I know I'm a newbie saying this, but I do agree that there is at least one veteran wolf out there. Hoops' list may not be a bad way to pick for the random day one vote although I'm not yet seeing anyone jump out ahead of the others there. Otherwise, I'm pretty much following this conversation to see where it leads.

This was the post that Pass quoted when he voted for Purdue. When I read it, I was a little concerned. Not so much by the idea that Purdue might be voting for me as one of the vets on the list, but because this had the sound of "I'll bandwagon whatever player moves to the front of the list".

When I posted my list, the theory was that there would be a low number of players on this list that would be picked as wolves. This was inverted into "there is probably a veteran wolf out there, so let's try to take him out". This position makes sense if he is concerned about being voted out on Day 1. In fairness everyone, both villager and wolf, should be concerned about this. But the wolves have more to lose in being taken out due to their smaller numbers.

[hoopsguy]

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[oliegirl]

Not sure if I'm going to be able to get on again before deadline so I'm going to be voting before I leave at 6:30...Barkeep was a villager in the past game I played with him and he played well, I know he's also an excellent wolf, so right now I'm leaning toward putting my vote on BK. If anyone wants to persuade me otherwise, you have an hour before I leave work...

[hoopsguy]

Purdue, if you want to go with a retaliatory vote now then you get to pick between two people.

I agree it is as good a reason as any on Day 1, but not terribly productive if we don't get to multiple votes on people at some point. Too shallow a voting pool makes it super-easy for the wolves to manipulate the vote to save their own.

This was another reason I voted for you - you cast the 8th vote of the day on the 7th person out there. The only time I've seen you as a wolf you had asked if you could self-vote at one point because you didn't want to vote for anyone. I'm guessing, based on flawless Day 1 logic, that you are getting a little bolder with casting your votes but still being a little tentative ("I'm only voting you because you voted me and I don't have any gut feelings on anyone else").

[jeheinz72]

FYI, I'm around for 20 min for anyone who wants to try and convince me to switch. I could see moving to Brad, but frankly it all just seems like a big 'ol crapshoot at this point.

[Passacaglia]

This was the post that Pass quoted when he voted for Purdue. When I read it, I was a little concerned. Not so much by the idea that Purdue might be voting for me as one of the vets on the list, but because this had the sound of "I'll bandwagon whatever player moves to the front of the list".

When I posted my list, the theory was that there would be a low number of players on this list that would be picked as wolves. This was inverted into "there is probably a veteran wolf out there, so let's try to take him out". This position makes sense if he is concerned about being voted out on Day 1. In fairness everyone, both villager and wolf, should be concerned about this. But the wolves have more to lose in being taken out due to their smaller numbers.

Hoops, I didn't read his post as saying that we should vote for someone ON the list. I think he meant we should vote for someone NOT ON your list. Notice how he prefaces it with "I know I'm a newbie saying this, but.." It's like he's trying to say he's aware that move puts him in a little more trouble (because he's one of the few folks not on the list). I think he's thinking that the odds are still in his favor, especially if he earns some trust by agreeing with the conventional wisdom of the time. That was my perspective on it, at least.

[hoopsguy]

I do agree that there is at least one veteran wolf out there. Hoops' list may not be a bad way to pick for the random day one vote

I read it as saying "let's see if we can take a shot at the at least one veteran wolf" rather than "let's see if we should vote for one of the non-vets".

If you want to vote for a person, "vet" or otherwise, by all means present a case. We're all reasonably smart people and will respond to posts. Most of us are on the same side in these games, even if we don't know it. I just thought, upon reading that post, that Purdue was setting up a vote later in the day. In fact, he did end up voting for one of the people on my list as he said he would, although the logic was now the "retaliation vote". To me, that read more like "blend in with the crowd vote".

[PurdueBrad]

My vote was going to be between one of two people (neither of which currently have a vote either) so I went retaliatory. So we'll see. I'm more than willing to switch for the good of village, believe me.

[path12]

This was the post that Pass quoted when he voted for Purdue. When I read it, I was a little concerned. Not so much by the idea that Purdue might be voting for me as one of the vets on the list, but because this had the sound of "I'll bandwagon whatever player moves to the front of the list".

I've got no problem with a vote on Brad (or anyone but me for that matter), but just want to point out that the idea of people waiting around day 1 to jump on a bandwagon isn't all that uncommon an occurence....

[Passacaglia]

My vote was going to be between one of two people (neither of which currently have a vote either) so I went retaliatory. So we'll see. I'm more than willing to switch for the good of village, believe me.

Just curious -- who were those people?

[PurdueBrad]

Pass, both people are veterans and both were on Hoops' list. I won't go further than that because, in all honesty, I think to do so would start a bandwagon run on me.

[oliegirl]

Vote Barkeep49

[Passacaglia]

Pass, both people are veterans and both were on Hoops' list. I won't go further than that because, in all honesty, I think to do so would start a bandwagon run on me.

Suit yourself. I guess I misread your post.

[PurdueBrad]

Suit yourself. I guess I misread your post.

Pass, you may not have misread (not sure), but I was only passing my vote on past games and lack of conversation thus far this game. I really have my normal, clueless, chicken with his head cut off (hopefully not villager with his head cut off!) read.

[saldana]

anyone got a vote count...i know they are all spread out...just wondering who my be ahead

[Barkeep49]

Why not Barkeep? Its more or less a random pick, of a guy that I think makes a dangerous wolf.

I defy you to state something in the last 12 minutes that I've done which was a dangerous wolf move. When I played a wolf in 6 of my first 8 games, or some such ridiculousness, I was a dangerous wolf. Now I am mediocre, at best.

[Barkeep49]

Vote Barkeep49
What's your reason?

I just want to point out again, and I know that math only goes so far, but if you do believe that a person on hoops' list is a wolf, as I do, it STILL makes more sense to vote for someone not on it, even if you're not on the list, actually ESPECIALLY if you're not on the list (1 in 7 vs 2 in 9 or 1 in 4.5). Basically if you're not on the hoops list, and are a villager, you have a 22% chance of hitting a wolf just randomly placing a vote.

As such I am going to follow my own advice and vote for someone who is not only not on the list, but has shown a great deal of ability, and thus leads me to think he'd be a great wolf choice. I will be voting for PurdueBrad for those reasons, in addition to my own life saving reasons.

[Barkeep49]

Vote PurdueBrad

[Barkeep49]

I would also like to say that while I have a GREAT deal of empathy for GMs trying to do things to make it easier to find votes, I think insisting on having votes be the only thing in a post leads to more hit and run votes which is bad overall for the game. I do like Neon having us vote in colors though.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't really have any thought on who to vote for ATM

[path12]

UNVOTE SALDANA

VOTE ARLINGTON COLT

[path12]

Reason is obvious I would think.

[Barkeep49]

Reason is obvious I would think.
Please pretend it's not.

[RendeR]

I'm not digging the "I'm going to be intentionally quieter" bit.

It's either counterproductive if you're innocent or an easy mask to hide behind if you're a Wolf.


Obviously jeheinz72 doesn't know me well.

#1 its Monday night
#2 I work Nights
#3 its Monday night Football
#4 The Bengals are playing on Monday night Football
#5 The Bengals are FAR more important to me that you lot :p

So, I'm going to be more reserved, aka I'm WATCHING THE GAME TONIGHT. And won't be very active.

My apologies if I was unclear in my previous statements =)

[RendeR]

Reason is obvious I would think.



Pssst, Hey...PAth...Dude....cmere....


You DO realize you're posting on FOFC and well, some of this lot isn't as umm...well...their bulbs aren't as briht as others 'k? So just , you know...keep that in mind when you think something is OBVIOUS, cause obviously you don't understand yer target audience ;)

[EagleFan]

Sorry, rough and long day at work. Just able to check in.

Now that I can.....

[EagleFan]

VOTE CRONIN

[saldana]

Reason is obvious I would think.

its obvious to me...he is trying to be gentlemanly and not vote for a girl

[RendeR]

Now I am mediocre, at best.


Oh come now BK, the whole humble pie argument? tsk tsk.

You sir are one seriously DANGEROUS player =)

[EagleFan]

I'll have to take some time out to read over the posts. I have a little suspicion already but need to read some more first. That vote may be changing.

Of course, if there is a wolf (or convert) who wants to make a major reveal today that could sway my vote rather quickly.

[PurdueBrad]

Unvote Pass

Vote St. Cronin

[PurdueBrad]

That is a self-defense vote. I would hate to see us start with a bad lynch yet again.

[RendeR]

We learn something from every lynch so no lynch is a bad lynch....well...unless its ME again....then it fuckin sucks.

[Barkeep49]

Oh come now BK, the whole humble pie argument? tsk tsk.

You sir are one seriously DANGEROUS player =)
If he said he was voting for me because I was a dangerous villager, I could buy that. Hell I fell for Neon's whopper last game.

But dangerous wolf? Look at what I did in the Bladerunner game. Basically I shouted, "I am a wolf", and unsurprisingly got caught. I played a wolf once since then and did fine, but I defy anyone to find any game I played where I was dangerous as a wolf in the last year.

[Barkeep49]

Dola: And by fine, I mean I still got lynched, but at least didn't do anything boneheaded like vote for my own teammate, relentlessly, in a game where there were no reveals so it built me no good will when he got killed.

[saldana]

i maintain the position that i always have, that we need a lynch on day one....i also think barkeep is too valuable to let die on day one, so, sorry about this, no offense intended...

[saldana]

vote purduebrad

[DaddyTorgo]

vote count?

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE ST. CRONIN

[DaddyTorgo]

my vote is subject to change but I havn't seen anything really interesting going on yet so I dunno.

that's kinda a "lifetime achievement award" vote for cronin btw

[EagleFan]

Have to step away for a bit, RL calls.

[st.cronin]

I would also like to say that while I have a GREAT deal of empathy for GMs trying to do things to make it easier to find votes, I think insisting on having votes be the only thing in a post leads to more hit and run votes which is bad overall for the game. I do like Neon having us vote in colors though.

I agree with this. I think the best rule for votes is that they be surrounded by an empty line, like for example

this vote is bold and blue

and then an explanation of the vote. I'm going to cast a self-defense vote in my next post.

[st.cronin]

UNVOTE BARKEEP49

[st.cronin]

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[PurdueBrad]

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">PurdueBrad (5)-</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Pass</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> (149), Hoops (193), Barkeep (209), Saldana (228), Cronin (235)
<st1:place w:st="on">St.</st1:place> Cronin (4)- Render (157), Eaglefan (218), PurdueBrad (222), DaddyTorgo (230)
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Arlington</st1:City></st1:place> Colt (1)- Path (212)
Barkeep (1)- Oliegirl (203)
RendeR (2)- Realdeal (163), JHeinz (173),
Realdeal (1)- NTNDeacon (180)

[PurdueBrad]

Hmmm, let me try that again....

PurdueBrad (5 votes)- Pass (149), Hoops (193), Barkeep (209), Saldana (228), Cronin (235)
Cronin (4 votes)- Render (157), Eaglefan (218), PurdueBrad (222), DaddyTorgo (230)
Arlington Colt (1 vote)- Path (212)
Barkeep (1 vote)- Oliegirl (203)
Render (2 votes)- Realdeal (163), JHeinz (173)
Realdeal (1 vote)- NTNDeacon (180)

[PurdueBrad]

Hoops, I understand how I've played in the past, but this is a new game and I'm not a wolf. If you are around, I'm looking for some honest help here to have people look past the bandwagon votes and make a different choice.

[hoopsguy]

VOTE CRONIN

VOTE ST. CRONIN

Didn't see reasons posted with either of these votes - would like to hear them, even if you are going to suggest "completely random selection".

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, I understand how I've played in the past, but this is a new game and I'm not a wolf. If you are around, I'm looking for some honest help here to have people look past the bandwagon votes and make a different choice.

Purdue, I'm around. Assume you are in a position of not knowing who is a wolf between you and Cronin, like a bunch of us are - why should we vote him instead of you? Or do you see another candidate that should be getting the votes, even knowing that it is going to be harder to collect the votes on them?

[PurdueBrad]

Purdue, I'm around. Assume you are in a position of not knowing who is a wolf between you and Cronin, like a bunch of us are - why should we vote him instead of you? Or do you see another candidate that should be getting the votes, even knowing that it is going to be harder to collect the votes on them?

Hoops, I'll be honest, I'm not sure that Cronin is the one either, except that he's been kind of quiet. My vote is on him simply to save myself, if possible. As I see it, anybody on that list right now is a possibility.

As opposed to attacking others and drawing more fire my way, let me point out some differences in my play. You've seen me as a wolf twice and a villager once (very first game). As a wolf, I've gotten louder as the game goes on and try to draw attention to myself. As a villager in my first game, I was gunshy and quiet pretty much throughout. You are seeing a different and more active me here, particularly early. I think this game I may be able to help step up as a leader for the village.

I realize that if you are a wolf, this gives you more reason to vote me off but, assuming you aren't, you usually take an unbiased, analytical view. I'm hoping that by laying out the differences I see in my game, you'll see the same thing too.

Some of the quick votes early did bother me, which is why I appreciated you asking for reasoning. I'm still not sure everyone has answered or answered in a way that makes sense.

Hoops, look back at my posts this game and see if there is any pattern or indication of good or evil.

[PurdueBrad]

And you know what, I'll be as honest as possible to your above question. Would I vote for Cronin or me? I would probably vote me because if Cronin isn't a wolf, his experience is likely more valuable versus my relative inexperience. That being said, I can guarantee this, I'm not a wolf.

[Barkeep49]

I would suggest the depth and detail Purdue has put into today is a reason to vote for cronin over him. However, I'm sticking with my math cause that's what I do.

[Antmeister]

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[hoopsguy]

Pass, both people are veterans and both were on Hoops' list. I won't go further than that because, in all honesty, I think to do so would start a bandwagon run on me.

At this point, I would recommend making your case against whatever players are setting off your radar.

I'm going post-diving right now, but my impressions from your posts earlier has you as a little more active, but not necessarily "leading". I recognize that leading on Day 1 is often a fool's errand as a villager - so be it. However, critical analysis of posts is something that I'll follow on any day, whether it is Day 1 or Day 10.

[PurdueBrad]

Hoops, let me recommend that you read posts 126, 199, 223, and 241 all together.

[hoopsguy]

Vote totals, as of Post #246:
PurdueBrad (6 votes)- Pass (149), Hoops (193), Barkeep (209), Saldana (228), Cronin (235), Antmeister (244)
Cronin (4 votes)- Render (157), Eaglefan (218), PurdueBrad (222), DaddyTorgo (230)
Arlington Colt (1 vote)- Path (212)
Barkeep (1 vote)- Oliegirl (203)
Render (2 votes)- Realdeal (163), JHeinz (173)
Realdeal (1 vote)- NTNDeacon (180)

Not voted: Arlington Colt, Chief Rum

[PurdueBrad]

I would suggest the depth and detail Purdue has put into today is a reason to vote for cronin over him. However, I'm sticking with my math cause that's what I do.

Barkeep, I can't fault you for seeing it this way and making your choice as such. I haven't played as much with you which is the simple reason I didn't appeal to you. But if you can see this possibility, I'm hoping others will as well.

[hoopsguy]

Purdue, I generally hate when I feel like there is too much momentum behind my picks - it often means I'm on the wrong guy.

I'll switch it to Arlington Colt for now, as he hasn't voted yet (Chief Rum indicated he might have some problems getting online) and see where other people want to put there votes.

For those who are worried, I won't let it end in a tie, even if there is a tie-breaker in place to make sure someone faces the music.

[hoopsguy]

UNVOTE PURDUEBRAD
VOTE ARLINGTON COLT