New (and idiotic) TSA rules proposed

[Tigercat]

I was aware there were 2. Am not aware of why that matters. Beyond one of them(forget which) seeming to garner more health related concerns.

It matters in terms of wearing garments meant to be seen or obscure what the person in the viewing room is seeing. They have totally different looking picture outputs, as to be expected by two totally different technologies.

As far as health concerns, none of the legit short term studies have shown the potential for health risks. Although obviously short term studies by themselves aren't good enough, as with anything of this nature, they will keep testing. The bigger concern would be the backscatter, as that is the machine that uses x-rays. AIT doesn't give off enough radio waves to suggest any legit risk, even with seriously prolonged exposure.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

TSA misses enormous loaded .40 cal handgun in carry-on bag (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/17/tsa-misses-enormous.html)

A person briefed on the latest tests tells ABC News the failure rate approaches 70 percent at some major airports. Two weeks ago, TSA's new director said every test gun, bomb part or knife got past screeners at some airports.
god bless america

[RendeR]

BUt but, they get to fondle genitalia now!~

[Passacaglia]

BUt but, they get to fondle genitalia now!~

There's your problem. Too many distractions to bother with checking the bags.

[JediKooter]

There's your problem. Too many distractions to bother with checking the bags.

Hmmm, would nut sacks count as checking bags?

[jeff061]

There's also all the news about how the new scanners can not detect plastic explosives that are molded to your body or even knives strapped to your sides(granted no one would think to do either of those). I'm not saying they can be overlooked, the scanners won't even god damn detect them. Didn't feel like bumping this when I read it, but since someone else did it for me :D.

TSA as a whole is a joke, screeners are a step below a high school janitor and policy makers exist to justify their non-justifiable job.

[Tigercat]

The failure percentages that are floated around aren't nearly close to true, not compared to any real numbers I have ever seen. Unless my airport is filled with comparitively the greatest screeners known to man, which I know we aren't. Hell, you put me on an X-Ray and I can find the smallest itty bitty pocket knife known to man (I have personally done so numerous times.) And I haven't even done that much X-Ray time compared to the rest of our officers. There are people that have been around since roll out (and by people I mean LOTS of them on the job) that can tell you what every item in a bag is on an X-Ray. And if you have seen what baggage X-Ray pictures look like, you would know that is impressive.

If anyone is ever paying attention at a checkpoint, just watch how many small bottles of water, scissors, ect. you see us take out of crowded bags just in the time you are able to observe. You will see it happen. And if you don't see it happen just look in our trashcans around the X-Ray machines, they will be full of "contraband." And a little hint: heavy metal things like guns and knives are 10x easier to see than a bottle of water in a crowded bag.


TSA as a whole is a joke, screeners are a step below a high school janitor and policy makers exist to justify their non-justifiable job.

How about this, if for whatever reason you ever get additional screening (be it a water bottle or items forgotten in your pockets) on your next trip, pay attention to what will probably be a professional job done by the person(s) at your checkpoint and feel free to ask questions about what they are doing. I know that my teams and I are usually happy to talk with passengers and tell them as much about our jobs and our technology as we are allowed to divulge. If at the end of the conversations and questions, you still want to tell your congressman that this type of screening isn't effective or cost effective, that is understandable. (*Of course, I also only suggest this during a mildly busy checkpoint. Otherwise the experience could be frustrating for everyone involved. :) )

I know one thing, I would rather work with my team members than someone that would blindly insult thousands who work for the security and well being of others. But then again, I try to be effective at my job and put people at ease, so I guess I am not the type to try and insult an entire group of government officers.

[Lathum]

Went through one of the new scanners on Friday flying out of Cleveland. Not a big deal at all, I was actually a little excited about it. I can see how it can slow things down a bit, otherwise, no big deal.

[jeff061]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358881/Undercover-security-agent-gets-new-airport-scanner-whilst-carrying-handgun.html

None of the agents who failed to spot the gun on the scanners were disciplined, even though the agent passed through it many times, according to a TSA source.

[Logan]

I went through the new scanner yesterday coming back from Vegas. It's amazing that someone can pass through a gun but I got held up on the mat for about an extra 30 seconds before they asked me if I had anything in a front pocket. I pulled out the mint I forgot about, the guy patted down my pocket and I was on my way. An older woman ahead of me refused it and had to get the long drawn out pat down.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I went through the new scanner yesterday coming back from Vegas. It's amazing that someone can pass through a gun but I got held up on the mat for about an extra 30 seconds before they asked me if I had anything in a front pocket. I pulled out the mint I forgot about, the guy patted down my pocket and I was on my way. An older woman ahead of me refused it and had to get the long drawn out pat down.
I just roll up to the officer and ask for the long drawn out pat down, personally.

If the officer is hot, I ask if I can give the long drawn out pat down. That often ends with me getting a long drawn out something else. :(

[sterlingice]

I have a friend who is a big, burly, hairy guy. He asks for the full pat down and then just smiles creepily at whoever has to do it :D

SI

[JPhillips]

The Transportation Security Administration is reanalyzing the radiation levels of X-ray body scanners installed in airports nationwide, after testing produced dramatically higher-than-expected results.

The TSA, which has deployed at least 500 body scanners to at least 78 airports, said Tuesday the machines meet all safety standards and would remain in operation despite a “calculation error” in safety studies. The flawed results showed radiation levels 10 times higher than expected.

But now that we've spent so much money on them it would be unwise to remove them. After all, a lot of cancers can be treated.

[Tigercat]

What an inaccurate snippet. The radiation levels are from backscatter machines, which are NOT "nationwide". They are mostly in Category X airports. The AITs are the "nationwide" machines that are in airports big and small. Backscatters use X-Rays, and the people they used to test radiation levels have been recording inconsistent levels. The FDA approves all these types of machines for use by the public, so even if a mistake was made with the radiation levels...

Personally, I would opt out of a backscatter machine myself. Not because I think they are dangerous, it looks like this current issue is an issue of bad testing by contractors. I would opt for a pat down instead of a backscatter because: 1) the patdown is ridiculously nothing, 2) no need to get X-Rayed, even in a small dose, when the alternative is simple enough.

[Buccaneer]

My wife went to drop her mother off at our airport. They (TSA?) asked her if she wanted to go the gate with her elderly mother and she of course said yes. I was pleasantly shocked that they allow that now. Are you aware of any rules changes that allows that now?

[JPhillips]

I've been allowed to do that when my mother is in a wheelchair.

[Tigercat]

It should be easy to get to a gate in these instances, but should involve just asking the ticket counter for a "gate pass" (looks like a boarding pass, but only gets you past security) and presenting that at the checkpoint. Now, some airports may be letting family members with the same last name accompany wheelchairs past the checkpoint, thinking that they don't need a gate pass when their role is obvious and the ticketed passenger's info was cleared. And it may be that TSA OKs that on a airport to airport basis... But the general rule is that you need a boarding pass or gate pass and valid ID to get past the checkpoint.

[JPhillips]

I'm pretty sure I had a gate pass the two times I remember accompanying my mother.

[panerd]

If you don't like the excessive security you don't have to fly. :rolleyes:

Like TSA? You'll Love VIPR! - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/10/like-tsa-youll-love-vipr/247221/)

[panerd]

.If you thought the “Transportation Security Administration” would limit itself to conducting unconstitutional searches at airports, think again. The agency intends to assert jurisdiction over our nation’s highways, waterways, and railroads as well. TSA launched a new campaign of random checkpoints on Tennessee highways last week, complete with a sinister military-style acronym--VIP(E)R – as a name for the program.


As with TSA’s random searches at airports, these roadside searches are not based on any actual suspicion of criminal activity or any factual evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever by those detained. They are, in effect, completely random. So first we are told by the U.S. Supreme Court that American citizens have no 4thamendment protections at border crossings, even when standing on U.S. soil. Now TSA takes the next logical step and simply detains and searches U.S. citizens at wholly internal checkpoints.

The slippery slope is here. When does it end? How many more infringements on our liberties, our property, and our basic human rights to travel freely will it take before people become fed up enough to demand respect from their government? When will we demand that the government heed obvious constitutional limitations, and stop treating ordinary Americans as criminal suspects in the absence of probable cause?

The real tragedy occurs when Americans incrementally become accustomed to this treatment on the roads just as they have become accustomed to it in the airports. We already accept arriving at the airport 2 or more hours before a flight to get through security; will we soon have to build in an extra 2 or 3 hours into our road trips to allow for checkpoint traffic?

Worse, some people are lulled into a false sense of security and are actually grateful for this added police presence! Should we really hail the expansion of the police state as an enhancement to safety? I submit that an attitude of acquiescence to TSA authority is thoroughly dangerous, un-American, and insulting to earlier freedom-loving generations who built this country.

I am certain people will complain about this, once they have to sit in stopped traffic for a few extra hours to allow for random searches of cars. However, I am also certain it merely will take another "foiled" plot to silence many people into gladly accepting more government mismanagement of safety.

Vigilant, observant, law-abiding, gun-owning citizens defend themselves and stop crimes every day before police can respond. That is the source of real security in America: the 2nd Amendment right to defend oneself. The answer is for people to be empowered to protect themselves. Yet how many weapons might these checkpoints confiscate? Even when individual go through all the legal hoops of licensing and permits, the chances of harassment or outright confiscation of weapons and detention of citizens when those weapons are found at a TSA checkpoint is extremely high.

Disarming the highways and filling them full of jack-booted thugs demanding to see our papers is no way to make them safer. Instead, it is a great way to expand government surveillance powers and tighten the noose around our liberties.

[CrimsonFox]

LOLOLOL!

[JPhillips]

The Fallows article implies it is a state operation. Is this true? It doesn't make it any less objectionable, but it would mean that it isn't an example of federal overreach.

[Matthean]

TSA Advises Feminist Vibrator-Owner: Get Your Freak On (http://www.businessinsider.com/tsa-advises-feminist-vibrator-owner-get-your-freak-on-2011-10)

[panerd]

The Fallows article implies it is a state operation. Is this true? It doesn't make it any less objectionable, but it would mean that it isn't an example of federal overreach.

I got the impression they were working with the TSA, at least being trained by them if not actually working hand and hand. I am scared about the police state no matter if it’s federal, state, or local. It doesn't make me feel any safer and there are plenty of historical examples of where this could eventually end up. (Of course the naysayers on here will say but not in America!)

This topic I guess is just like DUI checkpoints. Some people are under the impression they actually deter drinking or effect people's decision making. But when you look at the overall statistics most of the arrests and fines are for things unrelated to the checkpoint and they don't change the DUI/DWI death numbers at all. Plus they never seem to put these checkpoints outside popular tourist attractions or "cop bars" do they? Wouldn't this be the most effective deterrent they claim these create?

[panerd]

The Fallows article implies it is a state operation. Is this true? It doesn't make it any less objectionable, but it would mean that it isn't an example of federal overreach.

Looks like its federal, straight from the website of the beast....

TSA: VIPR Teams Enhance Security at Major Local Transportation Facilities (http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/vipr_blockisland.shtm)

[RendeR]

Re-FUCKING diculous.


This nation's government needs an enema.

[sterlingice]

If you don't like the excessive security you don't have to fly. :rolleyes:

Like TSA? You'll Love VIPR! - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/10/like-tsa-youll-love-vipr/247221/)

Oh, holy fuck no. Crazy libertarians, we're together on this one.

I get that there is a need for some train security as, frankly, I thought a train would be more dangerous than a plane. However, I also think TSA has gone way too far with planes and I don't think we need crazy crap everywhere else, too.

SI

[Schmidty]

.

I love Ron Paul.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Ky. senator Rand Paul detained at BNA (http://www.wsmv.com/story/16578487/ky-senator-rand-paul-detained-at-bna)

[Ksyrup]

Except law enforcement is denying he was detained.

[panerd]

Ky. senator Rand Paul detained at BNA (http://www.wsmv.com/story/16578487/ky-senator-rand-paul-detained-at-bna)

I am pretty sure he knew exactly what he was doing when he got detained. (And I am a huge fan of him and his dad)

[sterlingice]

Spokeswoman: TSA turns away Sen. Rand Paul - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/23/politics/rand-paul-tsa/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)

"A TSA official said Paul was "not detained" and left the checkpoint willingly. The official was not authorized to speak for attribution."

SI

[Tigercat]

The ironic part is that pre-TSA this situation would still require a pat down or combination pat down and detector wanding. Its only because of the increasing use of the different body scanners, that Paul asked for in this instance but no doubt opposes in Congress, that people can avoid metal detector alarms leading to full body pat downs. People with metal in their bodies love the scanners for that reason.

Edit: the revised version of the story seems to be that Paul went through the scanner, which detected an anomaly in the knee area. These machines can be very sensitive, and this could have been any number of things. The vast majority of people zoom through the machines without any need for a check, some need checks for reasons as simple as unusual clothing design or baggy clothing. Paul claims that he had nothing in that area, which is fine, and means that it would have been resovled with a slidding pat of the area that would have literally lasted 2 seconds. But instead he declined to be screened in such a routine way. I hope it gives him the press he really wanted, because as a passenger there is no way it was worth it for him.

[molson]

And once again, I traveled to Denver last weekend without getting molested, frisked, detained, strip-searched, insulted, or anything. Maybe 2 minutes through security (would have been faster but there was a slow guy in front of me).

I'm starting to think maybe that the TSA people just think I'm not attractive or something? Maybe I have to class up my traveling attire.

[panerd]

One step closer to being safe! :rolleyes:

Drones over U.S. get OK by Congress - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/7/coming-to-a-sky-near-you/?page=1)

[Tigercat]

I would imagine, beyond Homeland Security using drones on the boarders, that drones would be used by local police more than anything. (As a supplement/replacement for urban helicopter patrols.) Federal agencies just don't have need for the everyday use of drones except for high profile federal investigations and stings.

That private companies will be authorized to use them too is more disturbing to me. I don't see the Government's interest to really abuse drones on a massive scale, but I could see plenty of private interests doing so.

[JPhillips]

The whole surveillance state apparatus needs examination. There's really no difference between drones and urban cameras. Over the past two decades Americans have given up a whole lot of privacy without it ever being a national issue.

[sterlingice]

I hate that every time I see this thread bumped, I hope maybe something is being rolled back- you know like stupid restrictions on shampoo bottles or shoes but it never fails to disappoint :(

SI

[Logan]

I thought this thread was being bumped because of a story I saw today of a new "pre-screened" security line that airlines are inviting their frequent flyers to use as long as some additional information is given ahead of time. Will grab a link when I'm off my phone.

[terpkristin]

That's what I thought it was too, the expansion of the "preferred security line" or whatever.

[Logan]

TSA to expand PreCheck program to speed up airport security lines - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tsa-security-20120209,0,6508724.story)

[Desnudo]

The police state thing - you fly in Europe and there's a couple of guys with submachine guns next to the scanning machine. It's been that way for years. I can only imagine what the reaction would be here. I actually appreciate the effect they give, whether it actually works or not.

[panerd]

The police state thing - you fly in Europe and there's a couple of guys with submachine guns next to the scanning machine. It's been that way for years. I can only imagine what the reaction would be here. I actually appreciate the effect they give, whether it actually works or not.

1) Last time I flew into Vegas there were assault rifle armed police at their airport.

2) I will never for the life of me understand the less liberty/higher costs but who cares if it actually works or not crowd. I care a lot about both and disagree with "It could be worse" and that we should just keep spending money because their intentions are good. Seriously I don't think Obama or Romeny/Gingrich has any intentions of a dictator/martial law police state but I have no idea what will happen in 2016/2020/2024... Why make it that much easier for a person with bad intentions that to gain control? Do you really think all of the citizens of the countless numbers of historically oppressive regimes were just idiots who didn't know any better?

[panerd]

Here's Spokane, Washington for you. The reaction you claim will happen here is acceptance not outrage...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHs87AL_fkWptkqzVXI-xie6gi0kd6Ij7gNPO64CfL5EVAsiUusCp5XXYe8Q:www.mynorthwest.com/emedia/seattle/5/559/55900.jpg%3Ffilter%3Dmynw/300wide

New York City

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kSTwguX9gIA8dTqDy6CPzA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MTA7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/gettyimages.com/nyc-washington-step-security-measures-20110909-072659-489.jpg

San Francisco

http://sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2004/10/23/ba_bartswat_493fl.jpg

[PilotMan]

I lol at you panerd.

[sterlingice]

Some good TSA news for once, sort of :)

Oregon judge rules it’s OK to strip naked in protest of TSA | The Sideshow - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/judge-rules-ok-strip-naked-protest-tsa-182446590.html)

I'm really disappointed that the "don't touch my junk" guy didn't have more of an effect but at least here's something.

Personally, whenever I have time, I opt for the alternative screening as my passive resistance since I take more time and resources. I am polite and say I don't want the extra radiation and the guys are typically cool about it. Frankly, it seems like they're more embarrassed then I am

SI