Manhunt 2 Becomes Hot Coffee 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[SirFozzie]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30168

Hackers have already tampered with the code of Rockstar's Manhunt 2 to reinstate the violent scenes and images thought to have been removed from the game.

The PSP version of the controversial title has been exploited less than 24 hours since the game was officially released in North America.

The PlayStation 2 version of the game had already been distributed across the internet via torrent sites, a move that Rockstar has blamed on Sony Computer Entertainment.

The game has been censored in the US in order for it to receive an M rating – and therefore a release – rather than the original AO rating it was given by the ESRB.

The illegal exploit of the original PSP code indicates that the scenes that were cut in order to secure an M rating were not removed from the full game, rather disabled, much like the Hot Coffee mini-games in Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I hate Rock Star. I really, really do.

[sabotai]

I didn't even know their was a Manhunt 2 until yesterday when I saw Thompson on TV bitching about it. The way he describes the game, I really want that game!

[Kodos]

I hate Rock Star. I really, really do.



Why?

[SackAttack]

Why?

Other than the fact that it gives small-minded men and women a soapbox to stand on and issue outraged speeches demanding censorship of one form of media for another "FOR THE CHILDRUN!!!" I can't possibly imagine why.

[Schmidty]

Other than the fact that it gives small-minded men and women a soapbox to stand on and issue outraged speeches demanding censorship of one form of media for another "FOR THE CHILDRUN!!!" I can't possibly imagine why.

So people can't just hate the company because they're douchebags that put out shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage, without being called small-minded?

I don't think that they shouldn't be able to put out their excrement, but that doesn't mean I can't hate it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So people can't just hate the company because they're douchebags that put out shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage, without being called small-minded?

I don't think that they shouldn't be able to put out their excrement, but that doesn't mean I can't hate it.

Amen, Schmidty. Amen...

[Kodos]

I have no use for the Manhunt series, but the GTA games are entertaining.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Other than the fact that it gives small-minded men and women a soapbox to stand on and issue outraged speeches demanding censorship of one form of media for another "FOR THE CHILDRUN!!!" I can't possibly imagine why.

I think Schmidty completely nailed it in a very concise, sucicint manner, but I will try to elaborate.

I don't think their games should be banned. I don't believe they should be censored. In fact, I have vehemetly argued the contrary a number of times. I think Jack Thompson is every bit of a fruit loop as the next guy and can't stand people's small minded views of censorship of video games. They tried the same thing with music and movies back in the day. Because video games is a newer medium than the other two, they've turned their attention to it.

Why I hate Rock Star, however, is because of how they do business. They put out sensationalist crap games that specifically designed to attract this kind of negative publicity (hey, even bad publicity is publicity!) that continues to paint video games (and those who play them) in a negative light. They don't push the envelop in their games for art or merit or anything. They do it simply because they know there will be a huge out cry from those who cry "FOR THE CHILDRUN!!!" and that, will in turn, sell more of their games. Hey, it works. It's worked over and over for them, but I still find that type of marketing to be deeply irritating and bad for the industy over all.

The 4th quarter of 2007 has and promises to bring some of the best video games in recent years. It's almost an unprecedented era of quality right now. An embarassment of riches. It started with the release of "Bioshock" and then "Halo 3" and will continue with the release of games like "Mass Effect", "Assassin's Creed", and others. Unfortunately, none of these games, depsite their superior quality and innovations, will get 1/10th of the press of "Manhunt 2", which, by all accounts, is a pretty substandard game.

It's too bad that a bunch of sensationalist jack asses like Rock Star have become the "face" of the video game industry for the non-video game public at large.

[Kodos]

Halo 3 didn't get more press than Manhunt 2?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Halo 3 didn't get more press than Manhunt 2?

Probably shouldn't have included "Halo 3" in there. That got press up the wazoo. I've never understood why the Halo series is so popular, but that's a different discussion for a different time.

[Marc Vaughan]

I didn't even know their was a Manhunt 2 until yesterday when I saw Thompson on TV bitching about it. The way he describes the game, I really want that game!

The cynical side of me wonders if he is actually paid by some companies in the games industry to promote their products - there is no sane way that someone intelligent enough to be allowed to be a lawyer can be stupid enough not to realise he's helping sell their products .... so that being said he almost has to be in cahoots with them.

[Kodos]

Probably shouldn't have included "Halo 3" in there. That got press up the wazoo. I've never understood why the Halo series is so popular, but that's a different discussion for a different time.


Yeah, I'm not a big Halo fan either. Got bored in the first one and never came back to it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The cynical side of me wonders if he is actually paid by some companies in the games industry to promote their products - there is no sane way that someone intelligent enough to be allowed to be a lawyer can be stupid enough not to realise he's helping sell their products .... so that being said he almost has to be in cahoots with them.

As part of this noble profession, trust me, you really don't need to be that intelligent. That guy's just bat shit insane.

[Marc Vaughan]

PS - Bully (as its called in America) is actually a very good game, bit like a GTA but without the over the top violence and better gameplay. Unfortunately it didn't sell anywhere near as well as the games they've done which have media hysteria associated with it.

Their table tennis game was also good fun imho, Rockstar might use violence/hype to seel their games - however imho you can't just blame them when they've made superior games without the hype which haven't sold well ... after all they have to support their less commerical products somehow and at least they are open to trying new things rather than just reiterating the GTA series ad-hoc (which is what I thought they'd do at one point).

PPS - What me defending a game developer, shock horror ;)

[Kodos]

I haven't played a GTA game since the second one with the 80s theme.

[SackAttack]

So people can't just hate the company because they're douchebags that put out shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage, without being called small-minded?

I don't think that they shouldn't be able to put out their excrement, but that doesn't mean I can't hate it.

Whoa, whoa, Schmidty.

Wasn't calling *you* small-minded.

You are more than free to hate the game, and to consider it shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage. I'm not even really a fan of the Manhunt franchise myself.

What I'm aiming my disdain at is people who would rather ban a game, or movie, or CD, or whatever than take active and engaged interest in the proper raising of their children. Because, y'know, heaven forbid you just tell the little bastards "no" when they want to play a piece of shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage. :)

[sabotai]

The cynical side of me wonders if he is actually paid by some companies in the games industry to promote their products - there is no sane way that someone intelligent enough to be allowed to be a lawyer can be stupid enough not to realise he's helping sell their products .... so that being said he almost has to be in cahoots with them.

After an astronaut drove cross country wearing a diaper, I really don't think there's any profession that is 100% guarenteed not to have any stupid or insane people.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Whoa, whoa, Schmidty.

Wasn't calling *you* small-minded.

You are more than free to hate the game, and to consider it shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage. I'm not even really a fan of the Manhunt franchise myself.

What I'm aiming my disdain at is people who would rather ban a game, or movie, or CD, or whatever than take active and engaged interest in the proper raising of their children. Because, y'know, heaven forbid you just tell the little bastards "no" when they want to play a piece of shitty, overrated, sensationalistic garbage. :)

Those folks are worthy of your disdain, but it should be pretty clear that there are many other reasons (see above) for people - who have no interest in banning or censoring anything - to hate Rockstar.

[Honolulu_Blue]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20071102.jpg

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071107/D8SP4F281.html

Nov 7, 6:15 PM (ET)

hoswwwflssmkctw-li

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Target Corp. (TGT) said Wednesday it has pulled the "Manhunt 2" video game from its stores due to particularly gruesome content that can be unlocked by hackers.

In "Manhunt 2," by Rockstar Games, two prisoners go on a bloody rampage after escaping from a secret asylum for the criminally insane. Players take the escapees' point of view.

The game is rated "mature" by the Entertainment Software Rating Board, whose ratings cover a series of levels from "early childhood" through "adults only."The original version of "Manhunt 2" was gruesome enough to earn an "adults only" rating so Rockstar blurred out some of the nasty bits and got the rating lowered to "mature" before it went on sale on Halloween.

Like many retailers, Target sells video games and software rated "mature," which are deemed suitable for players ages 17 and older, but doesn't stock "adults only" games.

"Target strives to provide merchandise that will appeal to a wide variety of guests," the Minneapolis-based retailer said in a prepared statement. "We also want guests to be comfortable with the purchasing decisions they make at Target."

It took hackers about 24 hours to figure out how to un-blur the imagery on the version of the game for PlayStation Portables, though only on PSPs that have been illegally modified.

Officials with Rockstar Games did not immediately return messages seeking comment Wednesday about Target's decision.

Two years ago, after hackers found a hidden sex scene in "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas," the ratings board slapped an "adults only" rating on it.

Ratings board President Patricia Vance said the board is standing behind "Manhunt 2's""mature" rating, noting the difficulty of unlocking the offending content.

[SackAttack]

I really don't understand the ESRB's logic recently.

Take three games - Oblivion, GTA: San Andreas and Manhunt 2.

Oblivion was originally a T-rated game. You can argue whether it should have been so rated, but that was its original rating.

PC users basically took the texture of a shirtless male and affixed it to female body types to create the "nude" hack, and the ESRB used that as a justification for why it had to be bumped from a T to an M rating. They claimed that Bethesda didn't do a sufficient job of submitting content for rating, and pointed to that particular issue as proof. Did the game deserve an M? Probably, but not for the reason it was ultimately given one. That was the ESRB's fault, and I think that was a CYA application of the ratings downgrade.

GTA: SA got temporarily re-rated from M to AO because of the "Hot Coffee" content. Less defensible, because that was actual code in the game. Locked away or otherwise, it was there, and wasn't submitted for rating.

Manhunt 2, nothing actually got taken out; a filter was applied to obscure the gorier kills to pass muster. Folks hack it to remove the filter, the ESRB says "well, but that's okay, because it wasn't directly accessible."

There's an inconsistency here that I think is going to ultimately hurt the ESRB far more than they realize. You can't slam one game because the users outright modify it for their own purposes, and leave another alone. Oblivion's controversy wasn't about anything the developers did, and they got punished for it. Manhunt 2, what the developers originally did was merely obscured, meaning that all the users did was reveal what was originally done, and the ESRB is essentially saying "Meh."

If the politicians ultimately get involved in the game rating business, it's going to be hard to have any sympathy for the ESRB, because they're essentially shitting where they eat here.

[sabotai]

PC users basically took the texture of a shirtless male and affixed it to female body types to create the "nude" hack, and the ESRB used that as a justification for why it had to be bumped from a T to an M rating. They claimed that Bethesda didn't do a sufficient job of submitting content for rating, and pointed to that particular issue as proof.

Does the ESRB understand how PC mods work?

[dime]

obviously they don't know what a mod or a hack is...they're confusing them with developer easter eggs.

rockstar makes some great games, they have a lot of talent and innovation over there. I think it's stupid to "hate" them for making a dark/gory game like manhunt. I don't think their games are simply a product of negative publicity, but it is clear they don't care about being the scapegoat for violent or "immoral" video games. I don't hold that against them.

[SackAttack]

Does the ESRB understand how PC mods work?

This is what I'm saying.

I don't think they do. They completely lack consistency on this front, and seem to make decisions based upon whether or not they think they have enough political cover to ride it out.

It's that kind of activity that's going to get the government involved, and nothing good will come of that, regardless of whether or not you like Manhunt 2.

[Honolulu_Blue]

obviously they don't know what a mod or a hack is...they're confusing them with developer easter eggs.

rockstar makes some great games, they have a lot of talent and innovation over there. I think it's stupid to "hate" them for making a dark/gory game like manhunt. I don't think their games are simply a product of negative publicity, but it is clear they don't care about being the scapegoat for violent or "immoral" video games. I don't hold that against them.

I don't agree. I see right through their little schemes.

They may make some innovative games and, indeed, I think they do. By all accounts "Bully" was pretty innovative and having played GTA 3 for a few days, I feel that game had quite a bit going for it...

That said, there are a ton of incredibly innovative game developers out there who do not feel the need to stoop so low to purposefully make games they know are violent/dark/gory or what have you - for no real artisitc/creative/innovative reason - simply because they know it will generate publicity and sell more games.

Of course they don't care about being the "scapegoat". It's EXACTLY what they want. They eat that shit up. It's all for a purpose. They include little things like "Hot Coffee" or this latest "Manhunt 2" hack or whatever it is to keep the publicity rolling. To keep their "bad boy" image at the forefront. They love it. Come on, this Manhunt 2 hack was entirely predictable.

As a fan of video games I just think it sucks that Rockstar feels the need to kick up these stupid, meritless discussions and all this negative publicity - that affects the entire industry - just so they can sell more games.

It works very well for Rockstar, so I understand why they do it. It doesn't mean I have to like it.