Levels of Victory

[Passacaglia]

What do the different levels of victory mean to you?

This is something that was touched on in the Clue game, I think -- though it was bogged down with some other details. In the Clue game, the socialited seemed content to forego their chances for an individual victory, and get the collective socialite victory. Which was fine -- I had kind of assumed that at least some socialites would selfishly go for the individual victory and withhold their info, but the fact that I was wrong was my fault. What I took issue with was people claiming they would have won in scenarios where I specifically called it an 'individual' victory for a different person.

In the last couple games, we've had major victories and normal victories. What to make of all this? In Cathedral, cronin and I were angels, and my focus was on getting a major victory. Sure, I did my part to help the villagers make the right choice on who to lynch, but you can see that throughout the game, my focus was on getting the cathedral built. Cronin and I were succesful in achieving our major victory, but in the process, the villagers achieved a 'normal' victory. It seems tough to distinguish.

In Fairy Tale land, RendeR will be the first to tell you how much I hounded him about victory conditions once Buttercup died. I wasn't able to achieve my major victory, so since a normal victory was the best I could get, my new goal was to make sure no one else could get a major victory. I found out that Schmidty was one of the three little pigs, and thought about killing him -- RendeR said that if the three pigs were dead, they wouldn't get a major victory. At that point, we could have focused on the wolves, and all achieved a normal victory. In the end, I achieved a normal victory, but in a sense, I'm not 'the' winner, and the reason 'we' won had nothing to do with anything I did, so it's tough to decide how to feel about that.

I'm not really trying to make a point or anything -- just looking for some thoughts on the issue, since we've had a few games lately with different levels of victory.

[Alan T]

For me it depends on the game, this is the second invidual type victory I have won (The first being the Survivor WW game). In both games I obviously played to win the entire thing from the get go (as I did with the Clue game that Pass ran). I guess I don't favor one type of victory over the other, I just try to play within the spirit of the game as best I can tell from the GM's rules.

In a game like this , I spent the first day trying to figure out what the environment was, but it became understood fast that it was each man for his own in this one.. I enjoyed it alot, but also wouldn't want to play every game that way.

I guess for me, I'll always try to get the biggest level of victory and then use lesser victories as fall backs if failing my first goal.

[SnDvls]

I think in RendeR lastes game their were clear good/bad roles and therefore made more people going for their own victory vs. a team victory. By also adding in the small sub-teams it allowed for more people to get to and achieve their personal individual victory.

some of it has to do with how things are going in each game too. W/ me by taking out some people who couldn't get individual victory I forced them to try and get a team victory which also could hurt the other "good" players in getting their individual victory.

[Schmidty]

Levels mean nothing to me. It's win or lose, that's it.

[Abe Sargent]

Agree with my fellow pig Schmidity. I killed a bad guy who wasn't even a wolf. Why? Because he was a bad guy! I outed another, same reason. Now, all things being equal, would i have liked the pigs to get the ultimate victory? Sure. But in retrospect, there were way too many wolves for us to reasonably take out in time to beat another "team"

[hoopsguy]

I've had one chance to take a major victory in a game - Star Wars where I was the apprentice Sith. But I felt bad about having to take out SackAttack to achieve the victory after we had both survived for seven days so I just took the minor victory.

I think that is the only time I really got to pick my victory. There was the Treasure Hunt game where I escaped a sure death as a bad guy by hopping on a boat, but that only felt good because we were screwed either way - we managed to deny the good guys a total and utter victory. But it certainly didn't feel like we were big-time winners.

Generally, I want to play for the highest level victory that I can achieve in the game. But I've seen my stance on that soften if it involves screwing someone too badly along the way that has provided value to me.

[Thomkal]

I think if you are going to play in a game with some roles with an individual victory (if known beforehand), you should respect the game and at least try to obtain it, while working on the villagers/wolves normal victory too. Once the emotions kick in after a couple days of playing, it may be harder (or easier)to go after that individual victory, but you should still try. Players calling other players selfish for going after an individual victory is not very cool I think-they are just playing the role they were given and shouldn't be chastised for it.

[Barkeep49]

I know I always try to play by the victory conditions that are set forth. This means going for a major victory when possible. However, I admit to being puzzled by people having claimed a moral victory in Pass's game where it was very clearly and individual victory.