Broadcast TV switch to digital

[stevew]

[ rant]

I am tired of explaining the switchover to the uneducated people of America. I am tired of explaining how there are no longer vcr's that you can just screw in the cable and record. No I don't know how much a converter box is going to be. No idea what the cable company is going to do. I know you hate paying extra for a cable box. Yes, the traditional analog vcr is now illegal to make. No, I'm not lying to you.
[/rant]

They have done a pisspoor job of explaining this thing to the majority of people I encounter every day. Granted I wonder how most of these people can even dress themselves.


I mean, if you were an antenna only person, this changeover thing is probably one the greatest things(ther than HD) since the inception of the TV.

[molson]

settle down

[molson]

Dola - I though full digital conversion wasn't until 2009 sometime?

[14ers]

Dola - I though full digital conversion wasn't until 2009 sometime?
I read Feb 2009 somewhere.


I will not believe it until I see it. Too many little stations that will not be able to afford the new HD towers.

[stevew]

You should see how fucking pissed people get when I explain that they can't just buy a vcr, and that the only recorders with digital tuners are >200.

[molson]

You should see how fucking pissed people get when I explain that they can't just buy a vcr, and that the only recorders with digital tuners are >200.

Really? I haven't used a VCR in a while, though I have a bunch of VHS tapes laying around. You're saying I couldn't use it on my relatively new TV?

This is seriously news to me.

[stevew]

Really? I haven't used a VCR in a while, though I have a bunch of VHS tapes laying around. You're saying I couldn't use it on my relatively new TV?

This is seriously news to me.

I mean if you want something that records when plugged directely into a cable line, it's now upwards of 150-200 bucks. Stuff you have now still works fine, there's just no new stuff available to buy thats realitively cheap, and not "line in only."

[Raiders Army]

VCRs are dinosaurs. Go with DVRs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Most people still can't make the clock on their VCR stop flashing.
Expecting them to understand any of this simply isn't realistic.

[markprior22]

Most people still can't make the clock on their VCR stop flashing.
Expecting them to understand any of this simply isn't realistic.

I consider myself to be at least average in understanding technology but I don't have a clue what is going on with TV's. I could sift through the volumes of information online about it but honestly I don't want to take the time. The other problem is that much of the info out there is conflicting. Hell, I heard 5 or more years ago that our TV'S wouldn't work any longer in about 2 years. To me, the info should be very cut and dried. It's like saying "in 2 years cars will no longer be allowed to use gasoline for fuel." The first concerns most people would have is "what about the car I have now? Will it be able to be modified, will I have to buy a new car, etc? Our family has 3 cars...will they all need to be replaced?" The people in the industry should be able to address these questions in a clear, concise manner but that just doesn't happen. Rumor and speculation run amuck and then you don't know what to believe.

I mean, I still don't know if I will have to buy new TV's. High def doesn't mean crap to me because my I'm just not the type of person that needs to see each individual blade of grass or each bead of sweat running down Shaq's crack. I will be perfectly happy if I can somehow keep my current TV's.

[MikeVic]

I'm really confused about all this too. I still record shows on my VCR, and I play video games with mono sound occasionally. So I really don't care about HD. If we're forced to get new TVs or some other bullshit, I'm not going to be happy.

[Passacaglia]

the uneducated people of america

Just another example of how the public school system is failing.

[MikeVic]

Just another example of how the public school system is failing.

There should be a class about HDTVs. I'm sure it would take up a whole term.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Just another example of how the public school system is failing.

Because God knows that in between preparing the kids for the next standardized test, educating students on the latest TV technology is the highest priority in my English class. :rolleyes:

[DanGarion]

There should be a class about HDTVs. I'm sure it would take up a whole term.

And I'm sure the general public would ignore it.

[DanGarion]

[ rant]

I am tired of explaining the switchover to the uneducated people of america. I am tired of explaining how there are no longer vcr's that you can just screw in the cable and record. No I don't know how much a converter box is going to be. No idea what the cable company is going to do. I know you hate paying extra for a cable box. Yes, the traditional analog vcr is now illegal to make. No, I'm not lying to you.
[/rant]

They have done a pisspoor job of explaining this thing to the majority of people I encounter every day. Granted I wonder how most of these people can even dress themselves.


I mean, if you were an antenna only person, this changeover thing is probably one the greatest things(ther than HD) since the inception of the TV.

FYI, my understanding is that cable providers are required to offer analog content for a couple years after the digital change. Which sucks because that is a whole bunch of MHz that we will be wasting at 6 MHz a TV station.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Because God knows that in between preparing the kids for the next standardized test, educating students on the latest TV technology is the highest priority in my English class. :rolleyes:

Y'know, I'm pretty sure that sound was the education crack passing right over your head.

Look at the quoted phrase again, see if you spot anything amiss.

uneducated people of america

[JediKooter]

I think most consumers could care less about the technical details. Plain and simple, consumer Joe just wants to buy something they can plug in and be done with and not have to deal with some matrix on what will/wont work with what they currently have.

[DanGarion]

I think most consumers could care less about the technical details. Plain and simple, consumer Joe just wants to buy something they can plug in and be done with and not have to deal with some matrix on what will/wont work with what they currently have.

Fortunately for Joe Customer, if they buy a TV today it will work.

[ThunderingHERD]

I'm really confused about all this too. I still record shows on my VCR, and I play video games with mono sound occasionally. So I really don't care about HD. If we're forced to get new TVs or some other bullshit, I'm not going to be happy.


If you're not getting your programming over the air you won't be affected. The transition isn't really about HDTV--digital broadcasts need not be HD--it's about freeing up radio frequencies by using more efficient digital transmissions.

If you want to use your old (analog) TV to pick up over-the-air broadcasts after the analog transmissions are shut off you'll need to have it hooked up to a digital tuner.

[JediKooter]

Fortunately for Joe Customer, if they buy a TV today it will work.

That would be me :) Well, a few months ago actually.

[14ers]

Fortunately for Joe Customer, if they buy a TV today it will work.
I challenge this statement.

I do not think every new TV sold today comes with a built in HD tuner, and a built in HD antenna.


Never gonna happen. This whole change over reminds me of when the US had a mandate to change over to the metric system in the 70s. That never happened and this never will either.

[ISiddiqui]

IIRC, there is no need for a built in HD tuner. It is only a need for digital tuner... which is definately not the same as HD.

And you are incorrect about the comparison to metric switch over. This will happen. The TV companies are already gearing up for it. If you buy a new TV, it has a digital tuner.

[DanGarion]

I challenge this statement.

I do not think every new TV sold today comes with a built in HD tuner, and a built in HD antenna.


Never gonna happen. This whole change over reminds me of when the US had a mandate to change over to the metric system in the 70s. That never happened and this never will either.

You fail to understand the change. All TVs sold in the US require a digital tuner not an HD tuner. Manufactures are already required to do this and places that sale TVs have been getting fined for selling older TVs that don't have them. This is a lot different then the metric system. Billions of dollars have already been spent by everyone to do this.

[lighthousekeeper]

The conversion to metric would have worked if every American were forced to buy a new $700 ruler.

[MikeVic]

Just switch to metric right now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

"...and Vinatieri is on to try a 43-meter field goal..."

[SnDvls]

Just another example of how the public school system is failing.

well only because it should be The U.S. Americans :D

[14ers]

Maybe I am confused; Who is going to pay to replace all those Antennas that are mounted to the roofs of all those homes in the country? I thought you would need to replace your old roof mounted antenna, and that all TV stations would also be forced into buying new digital antennas.

My parents live in a town that still gets its TV signal from a roof mounted antenna. No fiber-optic cable companies, No digital signals, just small town TV stations rebroadcasting a signal that was transmitted miles away. These little TV stations are nothing more than simple amplifiers that do not even have a local news department.


I can't imagine the government forcing millions of people, especially the elderly, to give up their TVs. Especially in remote agricultural areas of the US.

[Chuck]

This may help explain the process.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitaltv.html

[MikeVic]

"...and Vinatieri is on to try a 43-meter field goal..."

Excellent.

[MikeVic]

Hey, can you change the system in Maximum Football?

[davidlando1]

"...and Vinatieri is on to try a 43-meter field goal..."

"You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in Paris?":D

[14ers]

This may help explain the process.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitaltv.html




What does this mean?
On February 17, 2009, federal law requires that all full-power television broadcast stations stop broadcasting in analog format and broadcast only in digital format. Here’s what these requirements will mean for you and your television viewing.

What is full-power?


Is this going to be a loop hole for all the small town TV stations out there?

[DanGarion]

Maybe I am confused; Who is going to pay to replace all those Antennas that are mounted to the roofs of all those homes in the country? I thought you would need to replace your old roof mounted antenna, and that all TV stations would also be forced into buying new digital antennas.

My parents live in a town that still gets its TV signal from a roof mounted antenna. No fiber-optic cable companies, No digital signals, just small town TV stations rebroadcasting a signal that was transmitted miles away. These little TV stations are nothing more than simple amplifiers that do not even have a local news department.


I can't imagine the government forcing millions of people, especially the elderly, to give up their TVs. Especially in remote agricultural areas of the US.

FYI, the only people telling you that you need a special antenna are the ones that sell you the TVs at Best Buy, etc.

The government is doing it, and they are going to offer vouchers for people to get the digital tuner equipment.

If you want to compare this to something the best comparison would be when we dropped the use of leaded gasoline. The old cars that needed the lead tend to have issues with valves, so people have to make upgrades or use additives to resolve the problem.

I can't think of any other analogy off the top of my head at this time.

[ISiddiqui]

What is full-power?


Is this going to be a loop hole for all the small town TV stations out there?

Your small town TV stations are going to be full power stations. Low power stations are basically public access:

[/URL]The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) created the Low Power Television (LPTV) service in 1982 to provide opportunities for locally-oriented television service in small communities. These communities may be in rural areas or may be individual communities within larger urban areas.

LPTV stations are operated by diverse groups and organizations - high schools and colleges, churches and religious groups, local governments, large and small businesses and individual citizens. LPTV modes of operation and programming vary widely. These include satellite-delivered programming services,syndicated programs, movies and a wide range of locally-produced programs. LPTV stations sometimes tailor program segments or entire schedules to specific viewer groups (on the basis of age, language or particular interest).

[url]http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/lptv.html (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/radio/broadcasting/low-power-faq/)

[Raiders Army]

I read Feb 2009 somewhere.


I will not believe it until I see it. Too many little stations that will not be able to afford the new HD towers.

QFT.

Fucking Obama. He got his Barackberry and now he hates technology.

Senate passes bill to delay digital TV switch - Tech and gadgets- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28863961/)

WASHINGTON - The Senate on Monday voted unanimously to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting by four months to June 12.

The vote is a big victory for the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress, who have been pushing for a delay amid growing concerns that too many Americans won't be ready for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 changeover.

The Nielsen Co. estimates that more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals could see their TV sets go dark next month if the transition is not postponed.

"Delaying the upcoming DTV switch is the right thing to do," said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to push back the deadline. "I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition at this time."

The issue now goes to the House. House Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., has scheduled a committee vote Tuesday on his own proposal to delay the digital transition.

President Barack Obama earlier this month called for the transition date to be postponed after the Commerce Department hit a $1.34 billion funding limit for government coupons that consumers may use to help pay for digital TV converter boxes. The boxes, which generally cost between $40 and $80 each and can be purchased without a coupon, translate digital signals back into analog ones for older TVs.

The National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the arm of the Commerce Department administering the program, is now sending out new coupons only as older, unredeemed ones expire and free up more money for the program. The NTIA had nearly 2.6 million coupon requests on a waiting list as of last Wednesday.

Jonathan Collegio, vice president for the digital television transition for the National Association of Broadcasters, argues that the Nielsen numbers may overstate the number of viewers who are not ready for the digital transition. He noted that the numbers exclude consumers who have already purchased a converter box but not yet installed it, as well as those who have requested coupons but not yet received them.

What's more, consumers who subscribe to cable or satellite TV service or who own a TV with a digital tuner will not lose reception.

Still Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at Consumers Union, argues that millions of Americans — particularly low-income and elderly viewers — will pay the price because "the government has failed to deliver the converter boxes these people deserve just to keep watching free, over-the-air broadcast signals."

In 2005, Congress required broadcasters to switch from analog to digital signals, which are more efficient, to free up valuable chunks of wireless spectrum to be used for commercial wireless services and interoperable emergency-response networks.

Republicans in both the House and Senate have raised concerns that a delay would confuse consumers, burden wireless companies and public safety agencies waiting for the airwaves that will be vacated and create added costs for television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals.

Paula Kerger, president and CEO of the Public Broadcasting Service, estimates that delaying the digital TV transition to June 12 would cost public broadcasters $22 million.

But Rockefeller managed to ease some of these concerns by allowing broadcast stations to make the switch from analog to digital signals sooner than the June deadline if they choose and by permitting public safety agencies to take over vacant spectrum that has been promised to them as soon as it becomes available.

Take a page from Nike and just fucking do it. Barack Hussein Obama. :banghead:

[Raiders Army]

You know, screw those 6.5 million households that couldn't get off their ass to switch over. That's what they deserve.

Oh, I forgot. We're in the era of mess up and it's okay. The government will make everything better.

[PurdueBrad]

Oh boy, can I please, please, please see more of those f-ing commercials warning us of the impending switch!?! Agreed, just do it, this has been a long time coming, if you're not there, you're S.O.L.

[stevew]

Motherfuckers


I had heard it might happen but was hoping iit would not.

[DanGarion]

Weird the news I heard earlier was that it was only extended 90 days, this appears to be the old bill that was delaying till June 12th... I'll have to look deeper into this if I get some time.

[DanGarion]

FYI...

<object width="512" height="296"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/kSs1TOjSDiDUYBEftQHs5A"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/kSs1TOjSDiDUYBEftQHs5A" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" width="512" height="296"></embed></object>

:D

[FrogMan]

I hate hulu... "We're sorry, currently our video library can only be streamed within the United States."

bleh

FM

[MJ4H]

That's too bad because that video is hilarious.

[DanGarion]

Yeah it's a followup to the original DTV one that they did. It's hilarious.

[MrDNA]

6.5 million people can't be wrong?

[DanGarion]

6.5 million people can't be wrong?
When it's less then 2% of the population...

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, when 62,040,610 people were so wrong...

( United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_US_Presidential_Election) )

[DanGarion]

Hell, when 62,040,610 people were so wrong...

( United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_US_Presidential_Election) )

But were they really?

[stevew]

The coupon program was an abject failure. For starters, they issued way too many coupons in the beginning. Which lead to not enough boxes. And because of the demand many people were unable to use theirs before it expired. Then you had a ton of people buying the boxes who didn't need them. We would get 3 to 4 dozen in and they would be gone in a day.

People were constantly mad that we were out of stock. And everyone else was out. Way too much of a hassle. Plus the shitty magnavox ones broke at a much higher rate than other electronic items.

This would hav worked much better as a mail in rebate program or as a one coupon at a time thing

Or no fuckin coupons at all for that manner. This whole thing is just a big clusterfuck

[ISiddiqui]

But were they really?

Yes.

[DanGarion]

The coupon program was an abject failure. For starters, they issued way too many coupons in the beginning. Which lead to not enough boxes. And because of the demand many people were unable to use theirs before it expired. Then you had a ton of people buying the boxes who didn't need them. We would get 3 to 4 dozen in and they would be gone in a day.

People were constantly mad that we were out of stock. And everyone else was out. Way too much of a hassle. Plus the shitty magnavox ones broke at a much higher rate than other electronic items.

This would hav worked much better as a mail in rebate program or as a one coupon at a time thing

Or no fuckin coupons at all for that manner. This whole thing is just a big clusterfuck
It's not really the governments problem that the companies producing the boxes didn't have them ready in time... IMO.

[DanGarion]

Yes.

No?

[ISiddiqui]

No?

Yes!

[DanGarion]

Yes!

Hehe, I love to argue today :)

[ISiddiqui]

This is not an argument, it's contradiction ;).

[sterlingice]

Seriously? I can't believe you guys are getting pissed off at this. It's not like it's not going to happen, it's that they're going to wait a couple of months.

For months, anyone paying attention has known this was going to get delayed- they've been talking about it for months. If there's one thing people will get pissed off about irrationally, it's their tv. So, with the economy falling apart around our ears, other huge problems lurking around every turn, Obama has the most political capital he's ever going to see, and most of it coming from a popular mandate from "common people. The last thing he wants to do is waste all of that on people getting pissed because they, their cable company, and Congress can't get their $#!+ straight about this and then go off and blame him because we all know that's how it would go down. In his mind, better to solve the bigger problems now while he has a chance and then we can sqabble about tv in a few months. And, frankly, I sure as hell agree with him.

Also, doesn't it make more sense to do this in the summer, when shows are on summer break (except for cable networks)?

SI

[DanGarion]

Seriously? I can't believe you guys are getting pissed off at this. It's not like it's not going to happen, it's that they're going to wait a couple of months.

For months, anyone paying attention has known this was going to get delayed- they've been talking about it for months. If there's one thing people will get pissed off about irrationally, it's their tv. So, with the economy falling apart around our ears, other huge problems lurking around every turn, Obama has the most political capital he's ever going to see, and most of it coming from a popular mandate from "common people. The last thing he wants to do is waste all of that on people getting pissed because they, their cable company, and Congress can't get their $#!+ straight about this and then go off and blame him because we all know that's how it would go down. In his mind, better to solve the bigger problems now while he has a chance and then we can sqabble about tv in a few months. And, frankly, I sure as hell agree with him.

Also, doesn't it make more sense to do this in the summer, when shows are on summer break (except for cable networks)?

SI

Do you know anything about this transition? It has nothing to do with cable companies and everything to do with the FCC and US Government wanting to make money on the currently used analog frequencies.

Anyway it has already been delayed 3 times, it was supposed to happen in 2006. Now delaying the inevitable is going to cost many local broadcast stations millions.

[sterlingice]

Both placed I've lived in the last year (I realize small sample size) have already switched all of their signals over to digital.

Also, how does this cost local broadcast stations if they've already changed over? It costs millions to keep an analog transmitter they already had in place running for another 4 months?

SI

[DanGarion]

Both placed I've lived in the last year (I realize small sample size) have already switched all of their signals over to digital.

Also, how does this cost local broadcast stations if they've already changed over? It costs millions to keep an analog transmitter they already had in place running for another 4 months?

SI

Local stations can't stop broadcasting analog signals till the drop off date. I think you are confusing what the DTV transition is.

The only city I know that has changed over is Charleston, you might be confusing DTV with your cable company going to an all digital format, which has nothing to do with DTV.

[ISiddiqui]

Here is the problem, there are a good number of cable areas that are putting their switch from analog to digital on hold until after the OTA transition in order to prevent confusion.

By further delay, my local Comcast is keeping more channels analog and therefore, doesn't have the room to add more HD channels.

Also, how does this cost local broadcast stations if they've already changed over? It costs millions to keep an analog transmitter they already had in place running for another 4 months?

Because they have to run both analog and digital? PBS has already stated this delay is going to cost them tens of millions of dollars.

[Raiders Army]

Seriously? I can't believe you guys are getting pissed off at this. It's not like it's not going to happen, it's that they're going to wait a couple of months.

For months, anyone paying attention has known this was going to get delayed- they've been talking about it for months. If there's one thing people will get pissed off about irrationally, it's their tv. So, with the economy falling apart around our ears, other huge problems lurking around every turn, Obama has the most political capital he's ever going to see, and most of it coming from a popular mandate from "common people. The last thing he wants to do is waste all of that on people getting pissed because they, their cable company, and Congress can't get their $#!+ straight about this and then go off and blame him because we all know that's how it would go down. In his mind, better to solve the bigger problems now while he has a chance and then we can sqabble about tv in a few months. And, frankly, I sure as hell agree with him.

Also, doesn't it make more sense to do this in the summer, when shows are on summer break (except for cable networks)?

SI

It's exactly why I'm pissed. This is not life or death. People aren't going to lose their homes over this. So after we've spent $160 million on a government party we spend another $22 million to delay the inevitable? Why spend $22 million on something that doesn't provide shelter, food, or clothing? Wouldn't it be better spent in Wilmington?

[Greyroofoo]

I'm loving the hd reception

[DanGarion]

Here is the problem, there are a good number of cable areas that are putting their switch from analog to digital on hold until after the OTA transition in order to prevent confusion.

By further delay, my local Comcast is keeping more channels analog and therefore, doesn't have the room to add more HD channels.



Because they have to run both analog and digital? PBS has already stated this delay is going to cost them tens of millions of dollars.

DTV transition has nothing do with cable companies changing to all digital.

[ISiddiqui]

Once again:

there are a good number of cable areas that are putting their switch from analog to digital on hold until after the OTA transition in order to prevent confusion.

[DanGarion]

Once again:

They can only transition the channels over "broadcast" to digital only at this time. No cable company can transition broadcast (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc) channels will 2012.

[ISiddiqui]

They can only transition the channels over "broadcast" to digital only at this time. No cable company can transition broadcast (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc) channels will 2012.

Huh?

Not Found (http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq30)


Is the FCC making cable companies switch to digital service?
No. Cable companies are not required to switch to digital service. Cable companies may choose to make their service all or partly digital, but they are not required to change from the analog service they offer today. In fact, the FCC requires cable companies to continue to provide local stations in analog as long as they provide any analog service, even after February 17, 2009.

So basically they can go all digital today if they want, but they are purposely not going that route until after the OTA conversion to avoid any confusion. Of course, they may say screw it, we were doing it to be nice, but it doesn't matter now.

Furthermore, there are more than just broadcast channels on cable which are in analog. Some cable companies are voluntarily suspending switching them over as well during the period.

[stevew]

Seriously? I can't believe you guys are getting pissed off at this. It's not like it's not going to happen, it's that they're going to wait a couple of months.


SI

If you had to deal with the hypothetical customer questions aspect of this for over the past year I'm sure you would feel differently. I was so happy it was finally going to happen. I see why they aren't doing it, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later. Boxes have been available for 6 months now. And every TV sold since fall of 2007(at least) has been compatible.

Delaying it cause of no coupons is stupid.

[Logan]

Seriously? I can't believe you guys are getting pissed off at this. It's not like it's not going to happen, it's that they're going to wait a couple of months.

I'm pissed because, like PurdueBrad, I'm annoyed by all the GD commercials about this shit.

[DanGarion]

Huh?

Not Found (http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq30)



So basically they can go all digital today if they want, but they are purposely not going that route until after the OTA conversion to avoid any confusion. Of course, they may say screw it, we were doing it to be nice, but it doesn't matter now.

Furthermore, there are more than just broadcast channels on cable which are in analog. Some cable companies are voluntarily suspending switching them over as well during the period.

You are having trouble understanding me, probably since I work in the industry and sometimes use the terms we use internally. Cable companies are required to have analog versions of broadcast channels till at least 2012 (this is a fact).

I realize that there are more then broadcast channels on cable, which is why I'm telling you cable companies CAN transition all the channels that are not included in their most basic broadcast plan, today if they want to. They cannot however take analog broadcast channels off their cable plant till at least 2012.

FCC: Cable companies must support analog until 2012 (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11089.cfm)
FCC: Cable companies must support analog until 2012

12 September 2007 19:38 by James "Dela" Delahunty | 9 comments
FCC: Cable companies must support analog until 2012 While the United States prepares to switch to digital broadcasts in February 2009, new rules from the FCC for cable companies will mean some viewers with analog TVs will be fine for a few more years. The FCC voted 5-0 to require that cable operators must continue to make all local broadcasts available to their users, even if they have analog TVs.

After the transition to digital, cable providers will have two signals to work with, digital standard definition (SD) and digital high definition (HD). To keep providing for the analog users, the cable companies will have two choices, either provide its subscribers with converter boxes or convert the digital SD signal to analog SD and provide it across the lines.

The converter box option is potentially very expensive and the analog signal option means the use of more bandwidth. The National Cable & Telecommunications Association applauded the FCC's decision but expressed concerns about the special circumstances of very small systems which could face severe cost pressures by complying.

[ISiddiqui]

But some cable companies, like Comcast in my area, are NOT converting more analog channels (or, if you will, moving them to a digital tier) until the whole OTA broadcast thing is over to prevent confusion. They were planning on moving a swath of them to digital in March of 2009. Now, who knows.

[DanGarion]

But some cable companies, like Comcast in my area, are NOT converting more analog channels (or, if you will, moving them to a digital tier) until the whole OTA broadcast thing is over to prevent confusion. They were planning on moving a swath of them to digital in March of 2009. Now, who knows.

Right I know, that is what I'm trying to make sure people understand, there was someone commenting that cable companies are the cause of this and I was explaining that they have nothing to do with DTV. Whether a cable company moves their channels that are "over/above" broadcast has nothing to do with DTV, has to do with the cable company. From what I know, we at TWC in Los Angeles, aren't planning on doing any of those types of changes till 2012, even though freeing up that bandwidth from channel 30-79 would give us the opportunity to provide customers with about up to 200 more HD channels (up to 4 HD channels per 6 MHz wide analog channel, roughly 300 MHz)... So now we can blame the limits of HD expansion on analog ;).

[twothree]

If you had to deal with the hypothetical customer questions aspect of this for over the past year I'm sure you would feel differently. I was so happy it was finally going to happen. I see why they aren't doing it, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later. Boxes have been available for 6 months now. And every TV sold since fall of 2007(at least) has been compatible.

Delaying it cause of no coupons is stupid.

Thanks to the House, it is back to the February 17th date. A very good thing, that I am also happy to see happen.

[ISiddiqui]

Ooooh, link?

[ISiddiqui]

Found it:

DTV-Delay Bill Fails To Pass In House - 2009-01-28 18:02:08 - Broadcasting & Cable (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162898-DTV_Delay_Bill_Fails_To_Pass_In_House.php)

[DanGarion]

AWESOME!

[JediKooter]

This should clear up some confusion on this issue:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xy-pD-M0rY4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xy-pD-M0rY4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Cringer]

All this BS over TV. It's real nice my daughter now picks up the local channels perfectly clear on her bedroom TV with her new tv/monitor she got for Christmas. It's still TV, life goes on without it. People who have to go without for a day/week/month can get their news from their neighbor. Acting like this country will cease to be able to function because of this is just dumb.

[JonInMiddleGA]

People who have to go without for a day/week/month can get their news from their neighbor.

Why would you do that if you have internet access?

In all seriousness though, both severe weather information & school closure information are a couple of things that are primarily delivered by TV that could be missed by some people.

[Raiders Army]

I'm glad this didn't get baracked.

[SteveMax58]

FYI on how does it cost millions to keep analog OTA running...it costs broadcasters (depending on transmitter strength and local energy costs, etc.) in the neighborhood of $35k/month to transmit that signal. That does not include any other operational and facility-based efficiencies that are gained by shutting off the analog transmission. So in a sense...it's environmentally friendly to shut that crap off ASAP!!! :)

With all of the coordination for broadcasters that will be switching over to OTA frequencies that are currently occupied by analog, obviously the impact to CATV Ops, and the (once again) message that the government's dates are never set in stone...this needs to just happen for every reasonable person's sake.

[Young Drachma]

Digital Television Beckons, but Many Miss the Call - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/arts/television/29ears.html)

[JPhillips]

So 155 out of 178 Republicans voted against the delay in the House, forcing it to go through a much longer process. I guess they're going to vote against everything the majority supports.

[DanGarion]

So 155 out of 178 Republicans voted against the delay in the House, forcing it to go through a much longer process. I guess they're going to vote against everything the majority supports.
But this is one where common sense prevailed...

[ISiddiqui]

But this is one where common sense prevailed...

Exactly.

[DanGarion]

I'm sorry to say, I understand that congress is supposed to be representative of the people, but most of the people in power have their own agendas and never listen to the people that they are supposedly in power to represent. A large majority of the people have already converted and are ready, there is no reason to stop the DTV Transition.

[JPhillips]

I wouldn't argue the timing of the transition, hell I wrote a paper in 93 or 94 about the coming era of DTV and it's still not here yet. I just find it odd that so many Republicans chose to vote no without showing even the slightest interest in the matter. I haven't heard a single principled defense, they're just going to vote no on anything the majority supports. This issue seems like a pretty easy way to build some bi-partisan credibility especially when the Senate passed it 100-0.

[cuervo72]

This should clear up some confusion on this issue:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xy-pD-M0rY4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xy-pD-M0rY4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Heh, I think I had that cable box with the silver dial.

[Raiders Army]

In all seriousness though, both severe weather information & school closure information are a couple of things that are primarily delivered by TV that could be missed by some people.

Missed this until now. We are in that boat. We don't get any local TV stations, so it's a little pain in the ass for us but it's no big deal. The Saturday after Christmas I woke up in the middle of the night and saw a crapload of heat lightning. A few minutes later thunder started rolling like Lily Allen's calves. I looked at Weatherbug on my phone and saw we had a tornado warning. After that, I checked the internet and saw a little more.

Anyhow, after it was all over I went to Wal-Mart and bought a NOAA radio for $20.

This week with the ice storm our kids' school called not once, not twice, but three times to let us know that the schools were closed. They were also on the radio and the internet.

I don't think this is a problem. For old people they should be used to getting their news over the radio. If they don't get the warnings...well, they'll die sooner than most anyhow.

[sterlingice]

... A few minutes later thunder started rolling like Lily Allen's calves...

Admit it- you made this entire post for this joke :)

SI

[Raiders Army]

Admit it- you made this entire post for this joke :)

SI

Ah, just a target of opportunity. Actually, the thundering of her thighs is the more common saying.

I would've said something about the thunder sounding like the rumbling of DanGarion's stomach in the middle of the night, but I didn't want to steal lynchjim's thunder.

[Raiders Army]

And it's delayed. If two years wasn't enough to prepare you, what does four more months do?

Congress postpones digital TV transition to June - News- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29020391/)

[ISiddiqui]

Though, apparently, I read that the bill includes a provision saying that broadcasters may switch earlier than the June date if they want to. So that's good news.

[molson]

And it's delayed. If two years wasn't enough to prepare you, what does four more months do?

Congress postpones digital TV transition to June - News- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29020391/)

Damn, I just bought my girlfriend a converter yesterday.

The thing is, many people who have over-the-air analog signals just don't care that much about TV. I think some of them secretly want their TV to go away.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I looked at Weatherbug on my phone and saw we had a tornado warning. After that, I checked the internet and saw a little more.

You do realize that those two sentences highlight the difference between you & the people I was mostly talking about, right? There's still a decent chunk of the population that still have flashing VCR clocks.

For old people they should be used to getting their news over the radio.

Good luck with that in more markets than I can count these days.

Look, even if I'm not a fan of the mandate to switch I still think any further delay is pretty silly. What hasn't been rectified by now isn't like to happen in four more weeks or four more months or most likely even in four more years. My point was mostly that it isn't quite as cut & dried about other options as it was being presented.

[DanGarion]

You do realize that those two sentences highlight the difference between you & the people I was mostly talking about, right? There's still a decent chunk of the population that still have flashing VCR clocks.



Good luck with that in more markets than I can count these days.

Look, even if I'm not a fan of the mandate to switch I still think any further delay is pretty silly. What hasn't been rectified by now isn't like to happen in four more weeks or four more months or most likely even in four more years. My point was mostly that it isn't quite as cut & dried about other options as it was being presented.
And most of those people probably don't contribute much to society... :devil:

[Raiders Army]

Though, apparently, I read that the bill includes a provision saying that broadcasters may switch earlier than the June date if they want to. So that's good news.
Is it really? I thought the whole purpose of the government controlling this thing was to make it less confusing and creating a standard. Since broadcasters can switch, it makes it more confusing. ABC may be switching over, but FOX, CBS, and NBC aren't going to until two months from now.
You do realize that those two sentences highlight the difference between you & the people I was mostly talking about, right? There's still a decent chunk of the population that still have flashing VCR clocks.
Yes I understand the difference. The point of the post was that you can pick up a good NOAA radio for $20 and the argument that people need TV to know about the weather is false.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The point of the post was that you can pick up a good NOAA radio for $20 and the argument that people need TV to know about the weather is false.

And my point was that there are people out there who don't even know such things exist, never mind that the default setting for most of the ones I've encountered eventually becomes "OFF" since they tend to either miss the info you need/want or give you warnings 100 miles away that have zero to do with you.

[JPhillips]

Is it really? I thought the whole purpose of the government controlling this thing was to make it less confusing and creating a standard. Since broadcasters can switch, it makes it more confusing. ABC may be switching over, but FOX, CBS, and NBC aren't going to until two months from now.

Government isn't controlling the switch as an imposition to broadcasters. The only way the switch was ever going to happen was a government mandated deadline. The broadcast companies were fine keeping all the extra bandwidth to broadcast both analog and digital.

[cuervo72]

Exactly - they want the bandwidth back.

[DanGarion]

Government isn't controlling the switch as an imposition to broadcasters. The only way the switch was ever going to happen was a government mandated deadline. The broadcast companies were fine keeping all the extra bandwidth to broadcast both analog and digital.
Exactly.

But now that they are paying to do both, they probably rather make the switch now rather then later, although they could lose viewers if they do that... I think they will end up waiting to the last minute since it's extended.

[Raiders Army]

And my point was that there are people out there who don't even know such things exist, never mind that the default setting for most of the ones I've encountered eventually becomes "OFF" since they tend to either miss the info you need/want or give you warnings 100 miles away that have zero to do with you.
I agree there are people who didn't know such things existed. I didn't know they did until we needed another form of early warning. We usually have ours off, but if they don't have a TV, then maybe they'd be on. :)
Government isn't controlling the switch as an imposition to broadcasters. The only way the switch was ever going to happen was a government mandated deadline. The broadcast companies were fine keeping all the extra bandwidth to broadcast both analog and digital.
Ah. Thanks!

[JPhillips]

Exactly.

But now that they are paying to do both, they probably rather make the switch now rather then later, although they could lose viewers if they do that... I think they will end up waiting to the last minute since it's extended.

I don't know what the costs are in terms of broadcasting a digital signal as analog. I'd assume every local station in the US made the jump to digital over the last year and that's where the big costs arise. Now that they're in digital I haven't seen any numbers that show whether or not the change matters in terms of operating costs.

Maybe Jon knows.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Media Life Magazine - The word: Sirius XM mulls bankruptcy (http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman2/publish/Hereandthere/The_word_Sirius_XM_mulls_bankruptcy.asp)

More than a third of stations make digital switch early
The digital TV transition won’t officially take place until June, with President Barack Obama expected to sign legislation pushing back the date any moment now. But unofficially, more than a third of the country’s TV stations will be making the changeover by the old date, according to the Federal Communications Commission. The agency said 681 of almost 1,800 local broadcasters will have turned off their analog signals by next week, when the old Feb. 17 deadline passes. The bill passed by Congress allows stations to stick to the original date if they prefer, and many do, after spending months and lots of money reminding consumers to prepare for the transition. According to Nielsen data released last week, fewer than 6 million households are totally unprepared for the switch, though thousands of consumers remain on waiting lists for federally sponsored converter box coupons.