Werewolf LX - Dog Soldiers (Game over, wolves win)

[st.cronin]

This game is inspired by a very cool werewolf movie of the same name.


You are a group of soldiers on a field training exercise in the woods, when it turns out you are being hunted by a pack of werewolves. Some among you have clearly been turned - your radio equipment is sabotaged, and your sentries, effective at first, are now easily bypassed, and one of you is killed each night.


Players:

1. ntndeacon
2. Passacaglia (killed night 2, medic)
3. Schmidty (lynched day 3, medic)
4. path12 (killed night 4, duke)
5. Anxiety
6. RendeR (lynched day 4, ordinary soldier)
7. PurdueBrad (lynched day 2, wolf)
8. Chief Rum
9. Barkeep49 (lynched day 1, wolf)
10. AlanT (killed night 1, bodyguard)
11. jeheinz72 (killed night 3, ordinary soldier)
12. Thomkal


Rules: This game uses a 24 hour cycle. Deadline will be at 9pm Eastern Time, 7 pm Mountain Time.

Voting: All votes must be capitalized and bolded, and bracketed by a line of empty text, like this:

VOTE ST.CRONIN

Votes not in this format may be missed by me, as I have poor eyesight. In the event not properly formatted does not get counted, I will lose no sleep.

It is possible to vote

NO LYNCH

as well. If more players vote No Lynch than vote for any particular player, then there will be no lynch. Not voting is not the same thing as voting no lynch.

Roles
1. Medic (can discover if a player is wolf or human)
2. Medic who finished last in his class (thinks he's the seer, but gets a random result)
3. Bodyguard
4. Duke
5. Wolf enthusiast (wins with the wolves, but counts as a villager, is able to scan players to discover wolf/human, and also can duke once per game)

The wolves win if they achieve parity in numbers with the village. The village wins if they eliminate all the wolves.

Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions, either in thread or via pm. The first deadline will be Tuesday at 9:00 pm Eastern Time.

[Barkeep49]

Do we learn if it was the medic of fake medic upon death?

[st.cronin]

Here is the pm which all soldiers have been sent:

You are a soldier. Here is the game thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=62060

Your goal is to eliminate the wolves.

Good luck!

Special roles and wolves obviously get different messages.

[st.cronin]

Do we learn if it was the medic of fake medic upon death?

A good question: The answer is no. All roles will be revealed upon death, but there will be no differentiation between the "seer" and the "fake seer."

[Thomkal]

Just a scared soldier here. And just a heads up that Wednesday is my birthday and I may only have short periods of time to participate over the next couple days as a result. (having a party with all that entails).

[Passacaglia]

So are we all dogs?

[RendeR]

Bow-farking-WOW dude, Ground Poundin Puppy checkin' in.

[Schmidty]

I'm here and am a soldier.

[Abe Sargent]

Bonjour

[Alan T]

I'm here, checking in. I'm driving down to Connecticut tommorrow afternoon, so will be gone most of the day. I'll check in and place a vote in the morning though before I go.

[path12]

Soldier checking in.

[Chief Rum]

Doggy dog in da house.

I'll be out most of the day tomorrow, but will be around before deadline.

[Chief Rum]

So, wait, Render is already a known wolf?!?

[Barkeep49]

So, wait, Render is already a known wolf?!?
Not that I know of. He checked in as a Dog. See game title.

[Passacaglia]

In the list of players, it says (wolf) by Render's name. I think cronin is just joking around with him.

[Thomkal]

Well going to put in a vote now, since I may not be around much today. This is a just for fun vote that will move if people try to pile on.

VOTE RENDER

for making me play a naughty little girl in my first game back to Werewolf. :)

[PurdueBrad]

Hey all, checking in. Soldier here, but aren't we all?

[PurdueBrad]

In the list of players, it says (wolf) by Render's name. I think cronin is just joking around with him.

At the same time though, wouldn't it be the best way to hide a wolf by hiding him in the wide open? For now, I'll follow along with this idea until something better comes along:

vote Render

[Alan T]

I don't know.. it almost seemed too obviously out there. I can't imagine that Cronin would purposely put wolf next to Render if he really was a wolf. I'm guessing it is just giving him a hard time as Render every game says to lynch Cronin first day.

I was going to vote for the first person who voted for Render, but it ended up being Thomkal and I felt a bit bad since Thomkal had an early exit last game too... so I'll go with the next best.. Also for being a pileon vote:

Vote PurdueBrad

[jeheinz72]

Just soldierin' on over here. I think it's a touch early to cast a vote and are we sure voting No Lynch isn't a better option? I can see the good and the bad of it, I don't honestly know.

[Alan T]

Just soldierin' on over here. I think it's a touch early to cast a vote and are we sure voting No Lynch isn't a better option? I can see the good and the bad of it, I don't honestly know.

Cronin is a big fan of day 1 no lynches, and in at least the last game he ran, it seemed to benefit the village to vote no lynch. This of course opens the age old debate of whather no lynch is good or not.

I usually take it game by game depending on what type of game and what type of roles are out there.. in a game that is wide open with tons of information, tons of roles it seems to benefit the village to wait on the lynch so those roles have more time to discern the information.. This game not only has a bad guy duke ability, has a false seer as well which means the information that is learned might be less in coming, and slower.

I'm not against a no lynch decision per say, but at least in this game, I see less benefit from it than I might in other games. This game just has only 12 players and with the bad guy duke role, it could be over very fast. So wasting a day could put us behind the 8 ball before we have any vote history.

[PurdueBrad]

Alan, I agree. I used to think that day one was little more than a mash up of votes with nothing more than random wild guesses but after discussion in previous games, I think it is better to get the vote record out there in order to make some sort of examination of the day's action.

[PurdueBrad]

And Alan, I'm simply on Render because from the time I saw the list I thought it would be a clever way to hide a wolf and make people write Render off as being good but can and will change if given something better.

[jeheinz72]

Cronin is a big fan of day 1 no lynches, and in at least the last game he ran, it seemed to benefit the village to vote no lynch. This of course opens the age old debate of whather no lynch is good or not.

I usually take it game by game depending on what type of game and what type of roles are out there.. in a game that is wide open with tons of information, tons of roles it seems to benefit the village to wait on the lynch so those roles have more time to discern the information.. This game not only has a bad guy duke ability, has a false seer as well which means the information that is learned might be less in coming, and slower.

I'm not against a no lynch decision per say, but at least in this game, I see less benefit from it than I might in other games. This game just has only 12 players and with the bad guy duke role, it could be over very fast. So wasting a day could put us behind the 8 ball before we have any vote history.

That makes some sense, I think you're right that the information we would glean overnight is less valuable in this game than say your average game.

Now, what about # of wolves. 12 people, so I'd guess the options would be

1) 2 wolves + enthusiast
2) 3 wolves and no enthusiast
3) 3 wolves + enthusiast

My guess would be #1 as it's less likely that cronin would have so few roles and not use one and #3 would just seem like an impossible road for us.

[jeheinz72]

And Alan, I'm simply on Render because from the time I saw the list I thought it would be a clever way to hide a wolf and make people write Render off as being good but can and will change if given something better.

Really though? Do you think cronin would do that? I think that would go against my theory in the post above, he certainly wouldn't "sell out" one of only two wolves, kinda makes the game pointless.

[Alan T]

That makes some sense, I think you're right that the information we would glean overnight is less valuable in this game than say your average game.

Now, what about # of wolves. 12 people, so I'd guess the options would be

1) 2 wolves + enthusiast
2) 3 wolves and no enthusiast
3) 3 wolves + enthusiast

My guess would be #1 as it's less likely that cronin would have so few roles and not use one and #3 would just seem like an impossible road for us.

I think it has to be option 1. Any more than that would be pretty impossible.

[Schmidty]

I get out of work in about an hour, and won't be around until 4 p.m. pst. My wife got a friend to watch our daughter, so I can sleep while my wife is at work and I definitely want to take full advantage of the rare treat of uninterrupted sleep. It's been a stressful day and a half with the whole storm-killing-our-house-thing.

Of course, that means I won't be able to fall asleep, as usual, and it will be a big waste. :(

[PurdueBrad]

Really though? Do you think cronin would do that? I think that would go against my theory in the post above, he certainly wouldn't "sell out" one of only two wolves, kinda makes the game pointless.

I guess, but like I said, the best place to hide a wolf would be in the wide-open. It's kept a few from considering it which does mean that it could work. But frankly, for me, it's a day one vote (everyone knows how much I enjoy these :rolleyes: ) so it's the best I have to go on so far.

[PurdueBrad]

Sorry to hear about your house Schmidty, I hadn't heard.

[Passacaglia]

For the record, it said wolf by RendeR's name *way* before signups were finished. I'm sure there's no way cronin would decide that RendeR is a wolf before that -- it really hurts the spirit of the game. I've got my eye on those who voted RendeR.

VOTE NO LYNCH

I think you all know where I stand on that issue.

[PurdueBrad]

For the record, it said wolf by RendeR's name *way* before signups were finished. I'm sure there's no way cronin would decide that RendeR is a wolf before that -- it really hurts the spirit of the game. I've got my eye on those who voted RendeR.

VOTE NO LYNCH

I think you all know where I stand on that issue.

Pass, I realize it said wolf next to his name at the time I signed up for the game but like I said, it would be a very clever way to hide a wolf. And having played with Cronin a couple times, he is fairly clever. Since I'm in the minority here though, I'll

unvote Render

[jeheinz72]

Pass, I realize it said wolf next to his name at the time I signed up for the game but like I said, it would be a very clever way to hide a wolf. And having played with Cronin a couple times, he is fairly clever. Since I'm in the minority here though, I'll

unvote Render

But why would Cronin want to be clever? Maybe I'm not 100% familiar with the role of GM, but I'd think his goal is for a fun game with some cool twists thrown in, not to necessarily have one side win over another.

[PurdueBrad]

True Jeheinz, which is ultimately the reason I removed my vote. The intent wouldn't/shouldn't be there to help disguise a wolf.

[st.cronin]

My apologies, that was a joke in the sign up thread, made before random.org was consulted, that got cut and pasted.

If you check the last time I edited that post, I think you'll see it was before this thread was created - so nothing should be read into that.

[Alan T]

My apologies, that was a joke in the sign up thread, made before random.org was consulted, that got cut and pasted.

If you check the last time I edited that post, I think you'll see it was before this thread was created - so nothing should be read into that.

Its ok, at least it gave us something additional for a day 1 discussion!

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, made for more interesting day one discussion than usual.

[st.cronin]

Slight problem, guys. One of the "wolves" made a goof on one of his pms, and cced a villager.

I'm re-rolling the roles, making a couple of behind the scenes changes, and re-starting the game. We'll stick with this thread and deadline.

[Passacaglia]

doh

[Passacaglia]

So were the wolves also fooled into thinking that RendeR was a wolf? :)

[PurdueBrad]

Damn, wish they would've cc'ed me! Ha, that's funny.

[st.cronin]

So were the wolves also fooled into thinking that RendeR was a wolf? :)

That would have been understandable, but that's not what happened.

[Alan T]

So just for fun, who were the wolves before the re-roll? :)

[st.cronin]

pms sent, game begins NOW

[Alan T]

Ok, well I was a villager before, am still a villager, still feel the way I do about lynch/no-lynch (where I am not hard-set, but leaning to lynch), and will just go back with my previous vote. This time for no reason other than its likely just as good as it was before :)

Vote Purdue Brad

[st.cronin]

So just for fun, who were the wolves before the re-roll? :)

First roll came out:

wolves: ntndeacon, Passacaglia, Barkeep49

Real Seer: PurdueBrad

Fake Seer: Alan T

Duke: Path12

Wolf Enthusiast: Chief Rum

Bodyguard: jeheinz72

Normal soldiers: Schmidty, Anxiety, RendeR, Thomkal

[jeheinz72]

The more things change, the more they stay the same, still a Villager. No need to vote for me yet though...

[st.cronin]

I made a couple of changes behind the scenes, as well - anything that was in an initial pm that was not in the rules has been changed.

[Passacaglia]

So who sent the faulty PM? Wasn't me.

Villager this time.

[Passacaglia]

My next guess is that the PM was sent to path instead of me.

[Passacaglia]

Never mind. I guess it was easy to figure out, since I received the PM that was CCed. Duh.

[st.cronin]

:)

I'm just glad it happened day 1, instead of about day 4 the last time something like this happened in one of my games.

[PurdueBrad]

Still a villager, just like everybody else.

[PurdueBrad]

Ok, well I was a villager before, am still a villager, still feel the way I do about lynch/no-lynch (where I am not hard-set, but leaning to lynch), and will just go back with my previous vote. This time for no reason other than its likely just as good as it was before :)

Vote Purdue Brad

Yeah, but I was the real seer last time! :p

[PurdueBrad]

First roll came out:

wolves: ntndeacon, Passacaglia, Barkeep49

Real Seer: PurdueBrad

Fake Seer: Alan T

Duke: Path12

Wolf Enthusiast: Chief Rum

Bodyguard: jeheinz72

Normal soldiers: Schmidty, Anxiety, RendeR, Thomkal

For the record, we would've had an awesome start last game as the two people I was ready to scan were Pass and Chief Rum. Man, hope the luck carries over!

[Barkeep49]

FTR it was me who made the bonehead move. Somehow I read the name NTN and read Thomkal. Since they're so similar I'm sure everyone can understand how I made that mistake. My apologies to everyone who had a role they were interested in, and especially cronin.

[ntndeacon]

Pass, I realize it said wolf next to his name at the time I signed up for the game but like I said, it would be a very clever way to hide a wolf. And having played with Cronin a couple times, he is fairly clever. Since I'm in the minority here though, I'll

unvote Render

I won't deny cronin's cleverness, but aren't roles usually decided pretty much at random?

[path12]

Well, soldier checking in again!

[Thomkal]

FTR it was me who made the bonehead move. Somehow I read the name NTN and read Thomkal. Since they're so similar I'm sure everyone can understand how I made that mistake. My apologies to everyone who had a role they were interested in, and especially cronin.

I wondered why I was getting a PM from Barkeep since I was (and am again now) a soldier. I frantically read through the rules looking for the role that allowed soliders to communicate with each other lol. Thought that might have given us a bit of advantage with an instant safe group, but hey I was ok with that. :)

No reason to change my vote at this point. I'm back from errands but will still not be able to post much till this evening most likely.

[jeheinz72]

Vote RendeR

He hasn't checked in, nothing more, nothing less. If he does before I split for the day, I'll likely change it.

[Alan T]

I wondered why I was getting a PM from Barkeep since I was (and am again now) a soldier. I frantically read through the rules looking for the role that allowed soliders to communicate with each other lol. Thought that might have given us a bit of advantage with an instant safe group, but hey I was ok with that. :)

No reason to change my vote at this point. I'm back from errands but will still not be able to post much till this evening most likely.


I think you need to re-place your vote. My understanding is the game restarted and earlier votes don't count. I might be wrong on that, but better safe than sorry.

[Thomkal]

Ah thanks Alan. Guess I'll vote for someone else then since the novelty of voting for Render has worn off. ;)

[Passacaglia]

I hope that when RendeR does show up, all he says is, "ARF! ARF!"

[RendeR]

"ARRROOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

[RendeR]

And i did check in on page one, silly people.

"Ain't nuttin but a dirty daog mon, give me my un and me bombs and I'l go out akillin' for's yee"

[RendeR]

un == gun, because I'm apparently too stupid to type right.

[RendeR]

Ah thanks Alan. Guess I'll vote for someone else then since the novelty of voting for Render has worn off. ;)


You think I made you a dirty lil girl last game? wait till the BSG game comes along....I remember someting about "pleaseure slaves" in one episode.....

[RendeR]

The Dreaded QUADRUPAL DOLA!!

[PurdueBrad]

RendeR, if you're doing a BSG game, I may never vote you off in any game!

[Thomkal]

You think I made you a dirty lil girl last game? wait till the BSG game comes along....I remember someting about "pleaseure slaves" in one episode.....

Ack! But I want to be Apollo!

[RendeR]

RendeR, if you're doing a BSG game, I may never vote you off in any game!

Thats my plan at this point. I went through all the previous WW games and didn't see that theme used yet so I was a bit shocked but quite thrilled that I could run with that =)

[Alan T]

Well, I'm heading out to drive to Connecticut in a few minutes, so won't be back until later tonight. Don't know if i will be back before deadline.

[ntndeacon]

Vote PurdueBrad
Odds are good that he isn't the seer. So that is where iwill go for a day one vote.

[PurdueBrad]

Well, not a big fan of Alan leaving a vote on me and then leaving but that's cool. That'll likely draw a vote from me on him w/o any better reason either.

vote Alan T.

Also, I'm not out, particularly if the COD4 server keeps acting up. I'll be on here and there.

[jeheinz72]

My bad RendeR, totally missed your check-in

Unvote RendeR

Since he killed me last game...

Vote path12

[Passacaglia]

VOTE NTNDEACON

Odds are the same that PB is the seer as they were last time.

[Schmidty]

Woke up to go pee. Going back to sleep.

Vote Random

errr....

Vote AlanT

[PurdueBrad]

Since we seem spread out with our votes, what happens in a tie situation? No lynch?

[st.cronin]

Since we seem spread out with our votes, what happens in a tie situation? No lynch?

Its a secret!

[path12]

Based on his handling of my three wishes last game:

VOTE RENDER

[Abe Sargent]

I have to vote before I head away to shop and eat and frolic. Not necessarily in that order. May not be back until after lynch, who knows?

Random Day One Vote. Hmm. Who is Suspicious? PurdueBrad was suspicious in the first iteration of Day One, but that;s over and he was a seer anyway.

I'll vote one of my fellow wolves in last game. Nothig more or less than that.

Schmidity is Voted!

[RendeR]

Based on his handling of my three wishes last game:

VOTE RENDER

FEE FIE FOE FUM!


I smell the bitterness of an unripe plum!

[PurdueBrad]

Cronin, I'm assuming that you have the RendeR is the tie-breaker kill rule in effect and that is the secret. Poor RendeR, everyone picks on him!

[ntndeacon]

VOTE NTNDEACON

Odds are the same that PB is the seer as they were last time.

I will grant you it is a specious argument. However it makes me feel less likely to hit the seer, and for a day one random vote, I see this false reasoning as good a reason as any other. :)

[Thomkal]

well time to get a vote in I guess.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

why? because I never can figure out whether he's good or evil in these silly games. :)

[Passacaglia]

I will grant you it is a specious argument. However it makes me feel less likely to hit the seer, and for a day one random vote, I see this false reasoning as good a reason as any other. :)

Let me guess -- on Day 2, you're going to hit me with the extension of this false reasoning, that you're less likely to be a wolf? :)

[Barkeep49]

This spread out vote stinks. We need a couple of candidates to make this a worthwhile vote.

[st.cronin]

Vote count:
Alan T - 2 - PurdueBrad (73), Schmidty (76)
PurdueBrad - 2 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72)
path12 - 1 - jeheinz72 (74)
ntndeacon - 1 - Passacaglia (75)
RendeR - 1 - path12 (79)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)

[path12]

Bitterness aside, I'm willing to narrow it down some.

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE PURDUE

I'm going to be gone soon and will be out until after deadline most likely.

[Chief Rum]

For the record, we would've had an awesome start last game as the two people I was ready to scan were Pass and Chief Rum. Man, hope the luck carries over!

But I would have duked the kill over to you, and then fake revealed as the seer. :P

[RendeR]

VOTE ALAN T


Lets make this a two horse race.

[Chief Rum]

well time to get a vote in I guess.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

why? because I never can figure out whether he's good or evil in these silly games. :)

Thomkal, I am ALWAYS evil!

Oh wait, you mean in WW terms? Well, that's random.

[Barkeep49]

What's the case against Purdue, if there is any?

[Chief Rum]

What's the case against Purdue, if there is any?

Odds say he probably didn't ge6t re-rolled the seer.

And before anyone suggests maybe cronin just said he re-rolled the roles, but actually didn't, that's not the case, as I am not the wolf lover this time around. Unfortunately--it seemed like a heck of a role to play.

I will say this, depending on how much cronin changed in the role, we should be very serious about finding the wolf lover. That is a powerful role in the hands of someone crafty.

[Chief Rum]

VOTE BARKEEP

I just gotta this time. That was a cool role he cost me.

I'm not ready to choose between PurdueBrad and Alan yet.

[Alan T]

Well I am back early from Connecticut. I will vote to save myself today, but then look very suspiciously at all of the people who piled on me after I left for the day. They could have easily voted for me earlier while I was here with time to defend myself, but instead took the cheap way out to throw a vote to try to off me while I was gone.

Very wolfish.

[Passacaglia]

Well I am back early from Connecticut. I will vote to save myself today, but then look very suspiciously at all of the people who piled on me after I left for the day. They could have easily voted for me earlier while I was here with time to defend myself, but instead took the cheap way out to throw a vote to try to off me while I was gone.

Very wolfish.

I think you already have voted to save yourself. Anyway, I don't really see voting for you while you were gone as necessarily a wolfish move.

[Passacaglia]

Odds say he probably didn't ge6t re-rolled the seer.



The odds are the same as anyone else. This argument gives no reason to vote for PB over anyone else. Odds are most of us aren't the seer.

[PurdueBrad]

Actually Alan, I thought the seeming hit and run vote was kind of wolfish given no reason except the first game in which I was seer as well.

[PurdueBrad]

I have no reason to vote for you other than that and am actually happy to move to a different candidate.

[PurdueBrad]

Well I am back early from Connecticut. I will vote to save myself today, but then look very suspiciously at all of the people who piled on me after I left for the day. They could have easily voted for me earlier while I was here with time to defend myself, but instead took the cheap way out to throw a vote to try to off me while I was gone.

Very wolfish.

Alan, this is the post that bothers me now. You're a veteran player, have no real reason to vote for me, and then fault others for the same reasoning. Nobody had a reason to vote for you earlier UNTIL you placed a bad vote on me. At least that is IMHO (and probably biased opinion as well).

[st.cronin]

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
Alan T - 3 - PurdueBrad (73), Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
path12 - 1 - jeheinz72 (74)
ntndeacon - 1 - Passacaglia (75)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)

[Chief Rum]

The odds are the same as anyone else. This argument gives no reason to vote for PB over anyone else. Odds are most of us aren't the seer.

I'm not arguing for the argument. I'm just answering Barkeep's question.

[PurdueBrad]

Chief, if you're around before deadline, I agree that I'm not a good choice for day one and, although I have a minute doubt, Alan T. isn't a better choice either (except for that last post, I've got nothing on Alan), so which way would you go? Is Barkeep your best option?

[Chief Rum]

Chief, if you're around before deadline, I agree that I'm not a good choice for day one and, although I have a minute doubt, Alan T. isn't a better choice either (except for that last post, I've got nothing on Alan), so which way would you go? Is Barkeep your best option?

There is no best option. It's Day One. No one is more guilty than anyone else right now. At least I have a reason for voting Barkeep, even if it's a crappy, out of game one.

[Alan T]

Alan, this is the post that bothers me now. You're a veteran player, have no real reason to vote for me, and then fault others for the same reasoning. Nobody had a reason to vote for you earlier UNTIL you placed a bad vote on me. At least that is IMHO (and probably biased opinion as well).

If this is really the case, then you had hours to bring this up, but instead you waited until after I left. You said I did a hit and run? Are you purposely trying to mislead everyone else or just saying things to save your skin? Want me to really go back and read out the timestamps of my "hit and run"?

Your lies are making less sense the more you post. Every single person who voted for me was around while I was all day, and only chose to vote me hours after I voted you and right after I left. How convienant

[PurdueBrad]

Hehe, I hear you. I'm willing to go another route, but at this point I've got to keep the self-defense vote on Alan T.

[Passacaglia]

Alan, I just thought I'd let you know I'm leaning toward voting for you. I think PB is getting an unfair shake enough as it is getting at least one vote just because he was the seer in our first attempt. Plus I think you're coming onto him too hard for voting for you -- I could see it for the other two that have voted for you, but you voted for PB first.

[Alan T]

And for people to see the hit and run that Purdue claims:

11:40am - my vote on purduebrad after the day 1 reset
11:56am, 11:58am, 2:56pm - Purdue brad posts
2:51pm, 2:52pm, 2:53pm, 2:54pm, 2:55pm, 3:24pm - Render posts

3:41pm - I post I am leaving for possibly the rest of the night

At this point I have 0 votes. All votes came after this.

[PurdueBrad]

If this is really the case, then you had hours to bring this up, but instead you waited until after I left. You said I did a hit and run? Are you purposely trying to mislead everyone else or just saying things to save your skin? Want me to really go back and read out the timestamps of my "hit and run"?

Your lies are making less sense the more you post. Every single person who voted for me was around while I was all day, and only chose to vote me hours after I voted you and right after I left. How convienant

My problem isn't necessarily that. It is this: You vote for me earlier, we re-roll/re-start, and you put your vote on me early for no other reason than, "I was going to vote for him last time, might as well do it again." ??? So, I was going to vote for you four games ago, might as well do it now?

If you're a villager, you and I are doing a fabulous job of screwing ourselves.

[Alan T]

Alan, I just thought I'd let you know I'm leaning toward voting for you. I think PB is getting an unfair shake enough as it is getting at least one vote just because he was the seer in our first attempt. Plus I think you're coming onto him too hard for voting for you -- I could see it for the other two that have voted for you, but you voted for PB first.


So then vote for one of the people who you think is using faulty logic about the day 1 seer thing. I haven't said that was my reason once. Unless you have some reason to protect him that you would like to share with us.

[PurdueBrad]

And for people to see the hit and run that Purdue claims:

11:40am - my vote on purduebrad after the day 1 reset
11:56am, 11:58am, 2:56pm - Purdue brad posts
2:51pm, 2:52pm, 2:53pm, 2:54pm, 2:55pm, 3:24pm - Render posts

3:41pm - I post I am leaving for possibly the rest of the night

At this point I have 0 votes. All votes came after this.

Again, my claim is much more based on the idea that because you were going to vote for me before, might as well do it again. Your voting instincts are great, you would've lynched the seer game one, trying again? Maybe I'm too close to it because the vote is on me, but I don't see the logic.

[Chief Rum]

So then vote for one of the people who you think is using faulty logic about the day 1 seer thing. I haven't said that was my reason once. Unless you have some reason to protect him that you would like to share with us.

Hmm, PB seems to wonder just what your reason is then, I believe.

[Alan T]

My problem isn't necessarily that. It is this: You vote for me earlier, we re-roll/re-start, and you put your vote on me early for no other reason than, "I was going to vote for him last time, might as well do it again." ??? So, I was going to vote for you four games ago, might as well do it now?

If you're a villager, you and I are doing a fabulous job of screwing ourselves.

I am not screwing anything. I placed a day one vote on someone for as good of a reason as anyone usually has for a day 1 vote. I placed it with plenty of time for anyone to rebut and instead you chose to wait for me to leave to sneak attack me.

If you had a problem with my vote, why did you not choose to even bring it up or mention it once while I was here? You totally ignored it and only came after me while I had no defense.

Are you afraid that I am the duke or seer or bodyguard or something and will either kill you or reveal and get you killed? So you chose to strike at someone to remove a villager day one who couldn't fight back?

Thats what it seems like to me.

[PurdueBrad]

So then vote for one of the people who you think is using faulty logic about the day 1 seer thing. I haven't said that was my reason once. Unless you have some reason to protect him that you would like to share with us.

I have been this aggressive in my defense only one other time and I was a villager then and I am now. Unfortunately my appeal went to Hoops who of course was a wolf so maybe I'm going through the same problem here. Look, vote me, vote me. Arguing with you isn't going to help my case with our other villagers so fine.

[Passacaglia]

So then vote for one of the people who you think is using faulty logic about the day 1 seer thing. I haven't said that was my reason once. Unless you have some reason to protect him that you would like to share with us.

I just told you what my reason for protecting him would be -- it's the principle of the thing. I think ntn knows better than to get things started on PB than to use such faulty reasoning -- he is a math professor, after all! It just makes me worried about the bandwagon on him in general. I'd still been content to see what happens with the tiebreaker, but I'm starting to think this is a situation where I need to be involved.

[Alan T]

Hmm, PB seems to wonder just what your reason is then, I believe.

Who has a reason to vote for someone on day 1? Only the wolves do. He has given me a much better reason to vote him with his sneak attack though.

I am amazed by how many people are coming to defend purduebrad though. I wonder which of you are wolves.

[Barkeep49]

I think Alan's attempt to hide beind a repeat vote is good enough to tip the scales in his favor.

Vote Alan

[Alan T]

I just told you what my reason for protecting him would be -- it's the principle of the thing. I think ntn knows better than to get things started on PB than to use such faulty reasoning -- he is a math professor, after all! It just makes me worried about the bandwagon on him in general. I'd still been content to see what happens with the tiebreaker, but I'm starting to think this is a situation where I need to be involved.

Well my vote is staying on Purdue Brad. If you feel that is a good reason to lynch me then bring it on. I will single handedly pick through all of your pieces to figure out which of you are the wolves if I must.

[Alan T]

Well since you all are amazing with your deductive reasoning. I am the bodyguard.

So, I will kill every last single one of you until I figure out which are the wolves.

[PurdueBrad]

Alan, look, you aren't changing, I'm not changing. We're stalemate, fine.

But how do day one votes go? The person that gets defensive gets voted out. So you wanted me to spend all day arguing with you? That wouldn't stink of desperation, so yeah, that would help. So I made the assumption that you would be around at deadline (which you announced you wouldn't be at 3:41 and bolted and yet here you are) if someone actually followed suit voting-wise. So now it's debate time simply because we're on the block. You're mad because at 3:41 you post, without any other warning, I'm out and think people voted when you couldn't defend yourself? Like we had warning.

[PurdueBrad]

Okay, now that I see what Alan posted, I'll change. If you're BG and I hope you are, let's try this:

unvote Alan T.

[Alan T]

Alan, look, you aren't changing, I'm not changing. We're stalemate, fine.

But how do day one votes go? The person that gets defensive gets voted out. So you wanted me to spend all day arguing with you? That wouldn't stink of desperation, so yeah, that would help. So I made the assumption that you would be around at deadline (which you announced you wouldn't be at 3:41 and bolted and yet here you are) if someone actually followed suit voting-wise. So now it's debate time simply because we're on the block. You're mad because at 3:41 you post, without any other warning, I'm out and think people voted when you couldn't defend yourself? Like we had warning.

Actually you did have warning. I posted last night that I would be gone all afternoon/evening.

Want to dig your hole deeper?

[Alan T]

Okay, now that I see what Alan posted, I'll change. If you're BG and I hope you are, let's try this:

unvote Alan T.

I am still not changing. You sneak attacked me, lied and tried to mislead people. Either you are a wolf or a villager with some other agenda.

[Passacaglia]

Barring another reveal, I'd like to see people head elsewhere now. How about ntn?

[Chief Rum]

Who has a reason to vote for someone on day 1? Only the wolves do. He has given me a much better reason to vote him with his sneak attack though.

I am amazed by how many people are coming to defend purduebrad though. I wonder which of you are wolves.

You seem to be mistaken. My vote's not on you. If PB was a brother wolf, it would be, don't you think?

I'm just pointing out the irony of you telling someone to vote because of their reason when you yourself haven't even stated a reason for your vote. Just because you have "reason" now because PB came back hard on you doesn't mean I look away from your reasonless vote early on.

All votes have reasons, regardless of whether they're good or not. I think it's reasonable you be more forthcoming why you voted for PB.

[PurdueBrad]

Sorry for not going back through what happened last night, that's my fault. I take the blame there and I'll trust that rather than go find the exact post. My vote is off you, keep your's on me, you're still wrong but I can't waste time diagnosing the reason any more. I've got to find someone else to put the tie on.

[PurdueBrad]

What sneak attack btw? Even though I'm not voting for you, my vote was on you well before you left. So who's the liar now?

[Passacaglia]

Actually you did have warning. I posted last night that I would be gone all afternoon/evening.

Want to dig your hole deeper?

The fact that he missed this is why I think PB is not really after you in a wolfish way.

[Alan T]

You seem to be mistaken. My vote's not on you. If PB was a brother wolf, it would be, don't you think?

I'm just pointing out the irony of you telling someone to vote because of their reason when you yourself haven't even stated a reason for your vote. Just because you have "reason" now because PB came back hard on you doesn't mean I look away from your reasonless vote early on.

All votes have reasons, regardless of whether they're good or not. I think it's reasonable you be more forthcoming why you voted for PB.


Aren't you playing both sides of the fence nicely?

[Alan T]

What sneak attack btw? Even though I'm not voting for you, my vote was on you well before you left. So who's the liar now?

I had 0 votes when I left. You voted after I left.

[PurdueBrad]

I have to go somebody that is already on me rather than risk bringing someone else over.

vote path12

[Chief Rum]

Well since you all are amazing with your deductive reasoning. I am the bodyguard.

So, I will kill every last single one of you until I figure out which are the wolves.

:rolleyes:

At some point, NOT aggressively attacking back at PB might have been a good idea.

I swear, I don't know why good roled players ever even open their mouths on Day One (that's a general criticism, not specifically aimed at Alan).

[Chief Rum]

Aren't you playing both sides of the fence nicely?

Yup, that's me! Being all wolfy again.

[Alan T]

:rolleyes:

At some point, NOT aggressively attacking back at PB might have been a good idea.

I swear, I don't know why good roled players ever even open their mouths on Day One (that's a general criticism, not specifically aimed at Alan).

I didn't attack anyone until I came back tonight earlier than I expected.. What do you think my reaction was seeing that a bunch of people who could easily have voted for me while I was around chose to do so only after I left?

You get mad at people voting you for being quiet on mondays that you work and aren't around yet don't see my issue here? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

[PurdueBrad]

Looking at the time, you're right Alan. I put my vote in when I saw that you bailed. My fault again. As I said, we're probably screwing ourselves with this vote but my attention to detail is bad this game so if that gets me lynched, so be it. No motive other than putting a vote on somebody that didn't have any kind of reason but I wasn't a pile on vote and we do need to examine that and those that piled on me (assuming you're a villager).

[Barkeep49]

Unvote Alan

I'm inclined to believe him D1, I suppose.

[Passacaglia]

I didn't attack anyone until I came back tonight earlier than I expected.. What do you think my reaction was seeing that a bunch of people who could easily have voted for me while I was around chose to do so only after I left?

You get mad at people voting you for being quiet on mondays that you work and aren't around yet don't see my issue here? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

I agree with this. There seems to be some kind of rule people have that if they post that they're going to be gone, they should be treated with kid gloves. I'm usually the wuss of the WW group, but I don't follow this line of thinking. Show why you shouldn't be lynched while you are here, rather than assuming you should get a chance to defend yourself once attacked.

That said, pretty much any Day 1 vote is going to be unfair.

[Chief Rum]

I didn't attack anyone until I came back tonight earlier than I expected.. What do you think my reaction was seeing that a bunch of people who could easily have voted for me while I was around chose to do so only after I left?

You get mad at people voting you for being quiet on mondays that you work and aren't around yet don't see my issue here? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

I don't think you should just sit and take it, especially as BG. But I think you came out too strong and with poor reasoning. The "too strong" pinged everyone's radars, and then the poor reasoning locked us in.

Your issue and mine are apples and oranges. You were coming back. And you were here for a good deal of the day. Everyone knows I won't be around to defend myself, so votes on me are extremely suspicious.

As for me "getting mad" about Monday votes, I don't bother anymore, because I know those people are just stupid.

[Alan T]

I agree with this. There seems to be some kind of rule people have that if they post that they're going to be gone, they should be treated with kid gloves. I'm usually the wuss of the WW group, but I don't follow this line of thinking. Show why you shouldn't be lynched while you are here, rather than assuming you should get a chance to defend yourself once attacked.

That said, pretty much any Day 1 vote is going to be unfair.

Well I would assume a villager wouldn't want to blindside a seer without a chance of letting him defend himself. Only a wolf would do that right?

[PurdueBrad]

Alan and I both probably came out too strong so Alan, my bad for my part. Again, at this point, at least I know I'm going to get lynched for lack of attention to detail. Anyway Alan, no hard feelings hopefully.

[Chief Rum]

Well I would assume a villager wouldn't want to blindside a seer without a chance of letting him defend himself. Only a wolf would do that right?

How would anyone, wolf or villager, know who the seer is?

[Alan T]

I don't think you should just sit and take it, especially as BG. But I think you came out too strong and with poor reasoning. The "too strong" pinged everyone's radars, and then the poor reasoning locked us in.

Your issue and mine are apples and oranges. You were coming back. And you were here for a good deal of the day. Everyone knows I won't be around to defend myself, so votes on me are extremely suspicious.

As for me "getting mad" about Monday votes, I don't bother anymore, because I know those people are just stupid.


Well good, then I don't have to try to be leniant and less likely to vote for you on day 1s anymore then. Glad you cleared that up for me!

I guess I always assumed that unless you have some devious underhanded reason for it, you don't kill a new person on day 1, you don't kill someone after they leave on day 1 and you give people a chance to defend themselves on day 1.

Later in the game, more has been established, and its all fair game, but on day 1, I just assumed everyone would follow the same "gentleman" rules so to speak.

I guess thats not the case. So be it

[Alan T]

Alan and I both probably came out too strong so Alan, my bad for my part. Again, at this point, at least I know I'm going to get lynched for lack of attention to detail. Anyway Alan, no hard feelings hopefully.

I never have hard feelings, its just a game and even though your move today was very anti-villagerish, it doesnt make me think less of you as a person.

[Passacaglia]

Well I would assume a villager wouldn't want to blindside a seer without a chance of letting him defend himself. Only a wolf would do that right?

I think you're being too focused on yourself here. The wolves on Day 1 don't decide to go after someone because he can't defend himself -- I've never seen that. In fact, if anything, the wolves are much more sporting than that. Anyway, there's a ton of options out there for the wolves -- they usually sit back and ride the wave.

[Alan T]

How would anyone, wolf or villager, know who the seer is?


I assume you know what i meant and are being overly difficult for dramatic effect.

[Passacaglia]

Let's get some stuff going.

UNVOTE NTNDEACON
VOTE PATH12

[PurdueBrad]

Not to be a complete smart ass but then logic would be to follow these rules if one is a wolf:

Pick new guys to be wolves with you (assuming you are the brutal or captain or whatever)
Always be gone on day one

[Alan T]

Not to be a complete smart ass but then logic would be to follow these rules if one is a wolf:

Pick new guys to be wolves with you (assuming you are the brutal or captain or whatever)
Always be gone on day one

I think people would find it pretty unsporting to see someone lying about Real life stuff just because of a game. I am pretty sure most people don't do that. When Chief says he will be working, we assume he isn't just sitting at home refreshing this page laughing at us all.

[Barkeep49]

I think it's likely we're looking at villager vs villager here. I'll go ahead and cast a vote for the only other guy who has multiple votes.

Vote path

[Barkeep49]

FTR: I hadn't see Pass's vote when I cast mine.

[Chief Rum]

Well good, then I don't have to try to be leniant and less likely to vote for you on day 1s anymore then. Glad you cleared that up for me!

I guess I always assumed that unless you have some devious underhanded reason for it, you don't kill a new person on day 1, you don't kill someone after they leave on day 1 and you give people a chance to defend themselves on day 1.

Later in the game, more has been established, and its all fair game, but on day 1, I just assumed everyone would follow the same "gentleman" rules so to speak.

I guess thats not the case. So be it

If you have had good reason to vote for me and did not because I wasn't going to be around, that's foolish of you. If you have several equally good candidates and vote for me, knowing I won't be around, that's a bit worse.

Generally, I abide by what you put there, except I would state the "after they leave on day 1" rule to only apply to someone who didn't spend much of the day here already. Such as people like myself who leave early, early in the morning and often can't post within 20 hours of deadline.

If people have good reason to vote for you, why should they not be allowed to vote for you?

[Barkeep49]

I think people would find it pretty unsporting to see someone lying about Real life stuff just because of a game. I am pretty sure most people don't do that. When Chief says he will be working, we assume he isn't just sitting at home refreshing this page laughing at us all.
Yeah I think that lying about RL stuff would be supabad and I just count on people not doing it. It is right up there, to me, with not PM'ing someone except as allowed, and only playing as 1 person.

[Barkeep49]

Chief: I think Alan's agreeing with you to some extent which is why he's critical of PB, but not schmidty or render for the vote.

[Chief Rum]

I assume you know what i meant and are being overly difficult for dramatic effect.

No, actually, I legitimately wonder what you were getting at? How does anyone know they're doing that unless the seer outright reveals and they still come at them hard without good reason?

No one but the seer knows he is the seer at the start of the game.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah I think that lying about RL stuff would be supabad and I just count on people not doing it. It is right up there, to me, with not PM'ing someone except as allowed, and only playing as 1 person.

not Pm'ing someone, eh?


hahahahhahahahaha ;)

[Alan T]

If you have had good reason to vote for me and did not because I wasn't going to be around, that's foolish of you. If you have several equally good candidates and vote for me, knowing I won't be around, that's a bit worse.

Generally, I abide by what you put there, except I would state the "after they leave on day 1" rule to only apply to someone who didn't spend much of the day here already. Such as people like myself who leave early, early in the morning and often can't post within 20 hours of deadline.

If people have good reason to vote for you, why should they not be allowed to vote for you?

You either are purposely misconstruing my point or just missing it completely.

I never said people shouldn't vote for me. I said that all of the people who voted for me were around in the thread during the day while I was here and not a single one of them voted for me or even mentioned my vote as "suspicious" or in any other detail.. yet only after I left did they find it suspicious? Nothing changed in the 5 hours after I posted my vote and they posted their votes for me.. They should have brought it up earlier and not waited till after I left (as I had previously said I would)

[Chief Rum]

Chief: I think Alan's agreeing with you to some extent which is why he's critical of PB, but not schmidty or render for the vote.

He has a funny way of "agreeing" with me.

[Alan T]

No, actually, I legitimately wonder what you were getting at? How does anyone know they're doing that unless the seer outright reveals and they still come at them hard without good reason?

No one but the seer knows he is the seer at the start of the game.

The wolves know who each other are, the villagers do not. Why would you want to randomly take a whack at someone who you know won't be there to defend themselves on day 1 in case they have some role that needs defense? You could take out a seer or bodyguard or something that could otherwise role reveal to save themselves.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about this.

[Alan T]

Chief: I think Alan's agreeing with you to some extent which is why he's critical of PB, but not schmidty or render for the vote.

Render had plenty of time to vote for me and was around most of the afternoon. I didn't see Schmidty around after the game restart before I left.

[st.cronin]

This is what I have, with a bit more than five minutes to deadline:

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
path12 - 3 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)


Let me know if I have made an error, please.

[Chief Rum]

You either are purposely misconstruing my point or just missing it completely.

I never said people shouldn't vote for me. I said that all of the people who voted for me were around in the thread during the day while I was here and not a single one of them voted for me or even mentioned my vote as "suspicious" or in any other detail.. yet only after I left did they find it suspicious? Nothing changed in the 5 hours after I posted my vote and they posted their votes for me.. They should have brought it up earlier and not waited till after I left (as I had previously said I would)

Actually, you have been suggesting that very thing. That people not vote for you because you were going to be away.

I see your point, though, about it being more suspicious to lay that vote down after you leave, stating you would not be back for some time. I still think you came on way too strong, though, and now we have an outed BG.

[PurdueBrad]

The wolves know who each other are, the villagers do not. Why would you want to randomly take a whack at someone who you know won't be there to defend themselves on day 1 in case they have some role that needs defense? You could take out a seer or bodyguard or something that could otherwise role reveal to save themselves.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about this.

Same point though, why take a whack at someone when you aren't around to hear their defense? That makes about as much sense. Wouldn't no lynch have made more sense? If forced to reveal and you aren't there, what good does that do?

[Alan T]

Actually, you have been suggesting that very thing. That people not vote for you because you were going to be away.

I see your point, though, about it being more suspicious to lay that vote down after you leave, stating you would not be back for some time. I still think you came on way too strong, though, and now we have an outed BG.

Show me where I suggested that once. I said it was very suspicious that they waited until after I left to blindside me. I never once said they shouldn't vote me at all. . I said many many times that my issue was them waiting until I left.

[Chief Rum]

The wolves know who each other are, the villagers do not. Why would you want to randomly take a whack at someone who you know won't be there to defend themselves on day 1 in case they have some role that needs defense? You could take out a seer or bodyguard or something that could otherwise role reveal to save themselves.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about this.

You have to vote for someone, Alan. There are no guarantees that any one player will be around to see a vote against them.

If the reason is good enough, I don't see a problem with voting for someone, even after they say they will be gone. The quality of the reason, though, is subjective.

No one should get an automatic free pass on any day in WW unless they are absolutely proven.

[Alan T]

Same point though, why take a whack at someone when you aren't around to hear their defense? That makes about as much sense. Wouldn't no lynch have made more sense? If forced to reveal and you aren't there, what good does that do?


I agree fully. Glad you see my side of this. That is why I placed my vote a good 4 - 5 hours before I left to see any response or defense.. to which there was none, zero, zilch..

I purposely voted early just for that reason, I wanted time to hear any response before I left. Glad you finally see my side of the story and I expect you will vote yourself now for such a horrible offense!

[path12]

Don't have time to catch up. Do I need to move my vote for any reason?

[path12]

Nice. Whassup, BK and Pass?

[PurdueBrad]

Alan, did you miss when I asked the logic on voting me based on the previous game? What other defense is there that early?!?! There was no logic to that.

[PurdueBrad]

That was asked before you left btw but I won't patronize you by time-stamping it. I really hope you are BG since I moved my vote because I will be kicking myself for many games if not.

[Barkeep49]

Nice. Whassup, BK and Pass?
Sorry. I think Alan and PB are both villagers and you were the only other person around.

[Alan T]

Alan, did you miss when I asked the logic on voting me based on the previous game? What other defense is there that early?!?! There was no logic to that.

I actually have things against people with P names. After you, I am coming after Path and Passacaglia.

[path12]

Sorry. I think Alan and PB are both villagers and you were the only other person around.

Cool. Real bad call though.

[Chief Rum]

Show me where I suggested that once. I said it was very suspicious that they waited until after I left to blindside me. I never once said they shouldn't vote me at all. . I said many many times that my issue was them waiting until I left.

So your sarcastic posts about the "gentlemanly" way to play Day One WW were disingenuine then? You actually believe that people who say they will be gone for the day should get voted for, that new people should be killed on Day One and that people who can't defend themselves should be voted for?

[st.cronin]

deadline

[st.cronin]

So, this is what I still have:

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
path12 - 3 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)


You all have a few more seconds to correct me, then it becomes final.

[PurdueBrad]

I actually have things against people with P names. After you, I am coming after Path and Passacaglia.


Hehe, now that's a reasoning I'll take! Alan, I stand by the fact that I believe (despite the one post that I had issue with) that you are a villager and more than likely your reveal is true but I am too. I understand that you'll be going after me all day tomorrow if I make it through this vote and the night so I guess more fun tomorrow, yay.

[Barkeep49]

Didn't PB vote for path?

[PurdueBrad]

So, this is what I still have:

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
path12 - 3 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)


You all have a few more seconds to correct me, then it becomes final.

I voted Path unless I forgot to bold it (which I understand)

[Barkeep49]

In post 131 PB voted for path. That's why I voted for him, since it gave him a second vote.

[PurdueBrad]

Post 131 is my vote for Path12

[st.cronin]

path12 - 4 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149), PurdueBrad (131)
PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)

Ok, my apologies, this is what I have then. Give me a few minutes and I'll have results.

[Chief Rum]

Don't suppose there is any chance path is a wolf, is there?

[Alan T]

So your sarcastic posts about the "gentlemanly" way to play Day One WW were disingenuine then? You actually believe that people who say they will be gone for the day should get voted for, that new people should be killed on Day One and that people who can't defend themselves should be voted for?

Now I know you are being difficult on purpose.




I guess I always assumed that unless you have some devious underhanded reason for it, you don't kill a new person on day 1, you don't kill someone after they leave on day 1 and you give people a chance to defend themselves on day 1.




Once again, my only beef is that it all happened after I left while they sat around all day with the opportunity to do so. If they wanted to vote me before I left, then hey its part of the game, and I've said that I have no problems with people day 1 voting me in the past many times.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm hoping since if he's not, I'm likely the next one to go.

[Alan T]

Now I guess the wolves get to wonder if I protected myself or someone else.

[path12]

Don't suppose there is any chance path is a wolf, is there?

Nope. I'm the duke. As we'll soon see.

[st.cronin]

Path12 CHANGES THE VOTE!

Today's lynch victim is Barkeep49.

Barkeep49 is a wolf!

Pms going out, day 2 will begin in a few minutes.

[PurdueBrad]

Christ, two reveals...

[path12]

Hmm. How 'bout that?

[Chief Rum]

Now I know you are being difficult on purpose.





Once again, my only beef is that it all happened after I left while they sat around all day with the opportunity to do so. If they wanted to vote me before I left, then hey its part of the game, and I've said that I have no problems with people day 1 voting me in the past many times.

And MY beef is that you came out so strong, you attracted even more attention to yourself and got yourself outed. So I guess we both have our beefs to spit.

[st.cronin]

Alan T has been killed by wolves - he was the bodyguard.

Day 2 has begun - deadline Wednesday 9:00pm Eastern.

[PurdueBrad]

Nice job Path12! I think between this and the game were AE duked off of Hoops are the only two times I've seen a duke nail a wolf. WTG.

[Chief Rum]

Path12 CHANGES THE VOTE!

Today's lynch victim is Barkeep49.

Barkeep49 is a wolf!

Pms going out, day 2 will begin in a few minutes.

Wow, way to go path. And I voted for a wolf. Well, then, two of us are right, at least.

[Chief Rum]

Alan T has been killed by wolves - he was the bodyguard.

Day 2 has begun - deadline Wednesday 9:00pm Eastern.

I guess Alan didn't protect himself. I probably wouldn't have either if I were in his shoes. Hard to make a right call; just ends up being 50-50.

[Barkeep49]

Alan T has been killed by wolves - he was the bodyguard.

Day 2 has begun - deadline Wednesday 9:00pm Eastern.
Ha! At least I called that one right!

[Chief Rum]

A shame. Barkeep voted for path. If he had voted somewhere else, we might have had another data point toward building an early COT, which is even more important now that we have lost the BG (and the duke, technically).

[Barkeep49]

Wow, way to go path. And I voted for a wolf. Well, then, two of us are right, at least.
I was amazed that you were the only who did that after my initial goof.

[PurdueBrad]

This was a pretty high cost day but we got a wolf, which has been rare on day one. Path is obviously our one COT and Chief Rum is probably second so I'll be following your leads. Nice job gentlemen.

[Chief Rum]

Ha! At least I called that one right!

lol...I was about to say, "Well, duuuh, he came out and said it", when I realized you meant the 50-50 shot, not that he was the BG.

Okay, now get out of here, wolfy.

And speaking of wolfy, look, not trying to throw a mess into all this, but the rules state that the wolf lover has duke powers. It's not out of the realm of possibility that path is the wolf lover.

I strongly lean toward giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I think it's important we don't forget that.

[Chief Rum]

I was amazed that you were the only who did that after my initial goof.

Well, it was technically a meta-game reason and I only coulda gotten away with it on Day One. I'm not surprised people with more scruples than me didn't choose to follow me on to you. :)

[Chief Rum]

This was a pretty high cost day but we got a wolf, which has been rare on day one. Path is obviously our one COT and Chief Rum is probably second so I'll be following your leads. Nice job gentlemen.

Sorry to introduce doubt into that. I certainly think path gets a a good deal of leeway before we would come back to him. Just saying we shouldn't forget about that role. I should know. I was that role before the re-roll.

[PurdueBrad]

Better to have all our bases covered but that would be a gutsy play to take down another wolf. Especially with a real duke still out there.

[Abe Sargent]

Just got back (my roommate wants to watch Nip/Tuck so she makes sur eto get back in time) and what do my eyes see before me? Is that a dead DAY ONE wolf?

Pat, I love you. Do you love me?

[Chief Rum]

Better to have all our bases covered but that would be a gutsy play to take down another wolf. Especially with a real duke still out there.

That last part is the most ringing endorsement for path. I figure, if we go to a lynch tomorrow and the real duke (if not path) does not duke to path, we're pretty set that he is our duke.

As for your first part, I didn't know who the wolves were when I was in the role. So a baddie duke path could potentially kill a wolf on accident.

Still, your second sentence is compelling.

[Abe Sargent]

Just want to point out that this was the First Day One in my four games back that I didn;t get a Day One vote on me. It was also the first game where we took out a wolf Day One. I'm just saying.

[path12]

And speaking of wolfy, look, not trying to throw a mess into all this, but the rules state that the wolf lover has duke powers. It's not out of the realm of possibility that path is the wolf lover.

True. I wouldn't clear myself in everyone else's shoes. I am the good duke for the record though. I wonder if the wolf lover would know the wolves? I doubt it.

[path12]

Just got back (my roommate wants to watch Nip/Tuck so she makes sur eto get back in time) and what do my eyes see before me? Is that a dead DAY ONE wolf?

Pat, I love you. Do you love me?

Yes Abe, I do love you.

[path12]

As for your first part, I didn't know who the wolves were when I was in the role. So a baddie duke path could potentially kill a wolf on accident.

OK, that answers that question.

[path12]

I figure, if we go to a lynch tomorrow and the real duke (if not path) does not duke to path, we're pretty set that he is our duke.

Technically, the bad duke could duke to me also. Though it would be a poor move and I'd think they'd rather find the seer. I'm sure I'm an early night kill.

[PurdueBrad]

Look, as this became discussion today, I'll be out tomorrow night (date night with the wife, going to see American Gangster). Anyway, my voting record is bad this game and I'm tired of defending me so if you lynch me here, I understand. Well played guys, I'm out for the night.

[Thomkal]

Just got caught up. Losing the bodyguard and the duke (if he's the good one) power on day 1 is a pretty bad blow for us soldiers even though Path took out a wolf-good job there Path! On the plus side all that action gave us a lot of good choices to vote for tomorrow.

And hey I survived day one for a change! :)

[Passacaglia]

Nice job Path12! I think between this and the game were AE duked off of Hoops are the only two times I've seen a duke nail a wolf. WTG.

I think you mean AC.

[Passacaglia]

A shame. Barkeep voted for path. If he had voted somewhere else, we might have had another data point toward building an early COT, which is even more important now that we have lost the BG (and the duke, technically).

I think we have to wonder if he was trying to save PB, though.

[Passacaglia]

I was amazed that you were the only who did that after my initial goof.

I thought about it. But I figured BK felt legitimately bad about it, so no reason to pile on.

[ntndeacon]

Technically, the bad duke could duke to me also. Though it would be a poor move and I'd think they'd rather find the seer. I'm sure I'm an early night kill.

Maybe, but Iwould not be surprised at all to see you still around in a couple of days.

[Chief Rum]

Technically, the bad duke could duke to me also. Though it would be a poor move and I'd think they'd rather find the seer. I'm sure I'm an early night kill.

Naw, don't think you have to fear that, unless he makes a rather rash move. On death, you would be revealed as the duke. Since there is only one other player who can do a duke move and that is the wolf lover, he would essentially be outing himself and likely assuring his lynch the next day. So I am pretty sure you're safe from that, short of a wolf lover death wish.

[Schmidty]

Nice job, path!!! It sucks to lose the duke power day 1, but I think that getting a wolf makes up for that.

Not sure where we go now since there are a few good targets now, including me. But don't vote for me or I will cry, kick my dog, and use the name of Peregrine in vain.

[Schmidty]

Oh, and seeing my name every two seconds is making me feel vulnerable, Chief.

[Schmidty]

Double dola. I wanted to comment on the whole lying about rl stuff a few pages back. I would never do that, and if anyone ever wants to call me at work to wake me up from my boredom, PM me for the number. We can exchange greenbean casserole recipes and stuff.

[Thomkal]

Good morning survivors. Just a heads up that I will be preoccupied with birthday party stuff most of the day/night, so probably shouldn't expect a lot of activity from me today. After today I should be back to normal and able to post more frequently.

[jeheinz72]

Wow nice Day One in that we got us a Wolf. When reading Alan's reveal I was praying that cronin changed the part where the BG couldn't protect himself at all (I was that role last game). No such luck.

Sorry about kick-starting the voting on ya there path, it really was just a barb over last game when I was so close to winning. Looks like it turned out well in the end though.

Anyhow, odd Day yesterday, with 10 players left and likely only one wolf, we'll have to pull a rabbit out of our hat. Right now I'm trusting myself (of course), Chief and Path. While I know I'd fit in the same logic, Pass voted with BK for Path. So that's something to note. Or BK could've been trying to save PB, another thing to note.

Barring the day's events, I'm leaning one of those two as they seem as good of a guess as any right now.

[RendeR]

Just want to clarify that my Day 1 vote was an attempt to cut down the number of options by putting 2 guys out ahead of all the others. I got busy at work and couldn't get back to change it before deadline.

[Passacaglia]

Morning all.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

I'm not convinced yet. But I'm worried that BK was trying to save him. And it seems like he's trying to play the pity card, being so willing to understand why we'd vote for him. I already pity him enough for having gone to Purdue, so I've got no more pity to give.

[path12]

Anyhow, odd Day yesterday, with 10 players left and likely only one wolf, we'll have to pull a rabbit out of our hat.

Actually, I think there's two wolves left since the original lineup had three listed. Plus the wolf lover.

[jeheinz72]

Actually, I think there's two wolves left since the original lineup had three listed. Plus the wolf lover.

Oh duh, good call. Man, the deck isn't exactly stacked in our favor then is it?

[jeheinz72]

Vote Passacaglia

He voted with BK for path on Day One. I know I did too, but I voted first and it was purely because path killed me last game (I had nothing to go on). They actually added votes to path.

My hunch is also then that PB is the wolf lover. It'd make sense he'd be ok with getting votes since he likely has the evil-duke power and if something flukish happened it's still better that he gets killed over a wolf as far as his role.

[Passacaglia]

Vote Passacaglia

He voted with BK for path on Day One. I know I did too, but I voted first and it was purely because path killed me last game (I had nothing to go on). They actually added votes to path.

My hunch is also then that PB is the wolf lover. It'd make sense he'd be ok with getting votes since he likely has the evil-duke power and if something flukish happened it's still better that he gets killed over a wolf as far as his role.

FTR, I voted before BK.

[Abe Sargent]

Morning all.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

I'm not convinced yet. But I'm worried that BK was trying to save him. And it seems like he's trying to play the pity card, being so willing to understand why we'd vote for him. I already pity him enough for having gone to Purdue, so I've got no more pity to give.

This is exactly my thought, but I have one other. No seer goes anywhere except to scan PB last night - it's the obvious place to look. He was acting oddly, BK may have saved him, and he was the next top vote getter - he makes perfect sense as a scan.

If a seer nails a second wolf on a scan, I'd reveal, because then we would be down to one. If I don't hear from a seer today, I'm going to be less likely to vote PB.

Although, to be fair, we have that one good and one bad seer thing going on, which means if both scanned PB, one will turn up wolf and the other dog.

That's funky, and I'm not sure how it changes the dynamic, but it may.

[Passacaglia]

This is exactly my thought, but I have one other. No seer goes anywhere except to scan PB last night - it's the obvious place to look. He was acting oddly, BK may have saved him, and he was the next top vote getter - he makes perfect sense as a scan.

If a seer nails a second wolf on a scan, I'd reveal, because then we would be down to one. If I don't hear from a seer today, I'm going to be less likely to vote PB.

Although, to be fair, we have that one good and one bad seer thing going on, which means if both scanned PB, one will turn up wolf and the other dog.

That's funky, and I'm not sure how it changes the dynamic, but it may.

Actually, the good seer spots PB as a wolf, and the fake seer gets a random response.

[jeheinz72]

FTR, I voted before BK.

True, but within one minute of each other and then BK says that he hadn't seen yours (which seemed fishy to me upon first read to begin with).

Could've been two wolves trying to decide where to put their votes via PM and voting.

[Passacaglia]

True, but within one minute of each other and then BK says that he hadn't seen yours (which seemed fishy to me upon first read to begin with).

Could've been two wolves trying to decide where to put their votes via PM and voting.

Why would two wolves vote for the same guy at the same time?

[jeheinz72]

Why would two wolves vote for the same guy at the same time?

Miscommunication. It's possible.

[Passacaglia]

Miscommunication. It's possible.

Yeah, it's possible. But LESS likely than the idea that I'm a villager.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, it's possible. But LESS likely than the idea that I'm a villager.

Possibly true. Realistically I like the thought process Anxiety mentioned. I'd agree that if a seer gets a confirmed wolf on PB, he should just come out with it. If it's the real seer, then we're down to 1 wolf anyhow. If it's the fake one, then no loss for us really.

Aside from that there isn't much to go on, I don't see a point of voting for PB just yet, and heading down my list of candidates, you'd be next on the premise I pointed out.

[Passacaglia]

Possibly true. Realistically I like the thought process Anxiety mentioned. I'd agree that if a seer gets a confirmed wolf on PB, he should just come out with it. If it's the real seer, then we're down to 1 wolf anyhow. If it's the fake one, then no loss for us really.

Aside from that there isn't much to go on, I don't see a point of voting for PB just yet, and heading down my list of candidates, you'd be next on the premise I pointed out.

Fair enough. I still don't see what is behind your premise other than "it's possible" -- but I'm not going to sweat it yet.

[jeheinz72]

Fair enough. I still don't see what is behind your premise other than "it's possible" -- but I'm not going to sweat it yet.

My premise is "This person voted with a known wolf". That fits only two people, me and you, and I know I"m just a dog. :)

But yeah, unless someone agrees with me I wouldn't worry about it either!

[Passacaglia]

My premise is "This person voted with a known wolf". That fits only two people, me and you, and I know I"m just a dog. :)

But yeah, unless someone agrees with me I wouldn't worry about it either!

And PB.

[PurdueBrad]

Hey guys, I'm in and out more than I thought I would be today which isn't so bad given yesterday. Pass, I still stand by the fact that I'm a villager. I don't think I have anything else to defend other than the fact that my voting was horrid yesterday (but both were self-defense votes if that matters). I'm going to go a different route and see what shakes loose:

no lynch until we get possible word from the seer. Although I'm still not sure we want a reveal here but I guess with only two wolves, if they've hit on one, that does leave just one for us to ferret out.

[Passacaglia]

Hey guys, I'm in and out more than I thought I would be today which isn't so bad given yesterday. Pass, I still stand by the fact that I'm a villager. I don't think I have anything else to defend other than the fact that my voting was horrid yesterday (but both were self-defense votes if that matters). I'm going to go a different route and see what shakes loose:

no lynch until we get possible word from the seer. Although I'm still not sure we want a reveal here but I guess with only two wolves, if they've hit on one, that does leave just one for us to ferret out.

PB, my beef with you isn't so much your voting -- it's that Barkeep seemed interested in saving you. He said he suspected that we were villager/villager -- and he may have been telling the truth about that, but it does seem like he went out of his way not to vote for you yesterday.

As for the seer, I think there's too many variables for someone to come out and say what they've got on PB, considering it would make them a target, and they don't even know if what they have is true. If we really think the seers scanned PB, why not kill him to give them a chance to figure out which seer they are?

[PurdueBrad]

I figured your problem wasn't my voting but I wanted to lay out there that frankly my voting was awful.

I guess I was hoping a seer could clear me or at least finger (minds out of the gutter) someone else.

Yeah, as soon as BK came up wolf, I knew that it would only further cast doubt on me because of his late vote. This isn't a surprise and I feel lucky to have avoided the lynch last night. I have little more of a read today than I did yesterday hence my no lynch but I don't want to get into a third situation where I've got a vote on a villager for no particular reason. If I need to again go self-defense, I will but will follow Chief and Path's leads today.

[path12]

I tend to agree with Abe on the likelihood of Brad being scanned yesterday and without a call-out am leaning in other directions. JE, for what it's worth I want to take a closer look at Pass' postings, because I had a vague feeling that there was some triangulation between them yesterday but want to make sure that it wasn't just that they both voted for me. They were the two I was deciding between yesterday to duke.

[Passacaglia]

I tend to agree with Abe on the likelihood of Brad being scanned yesterday and without a call-out am leaning in other directions. JE, for what it's worth I want to take a closer look at Pass' postings, because I had a vague feeling that there was some triangulation between them yesterday but want to make sure that it wasn't just that they both voted for me. They were the two I was deciding between yesterday to duke.

Please, take a look. I've posted a lot, if I recall, so there should be a lot to look at.

[jeheinz72]

I tend to agree with Abe on the likelihood of Brad being scanned yesterday and without a call-out am leaning in other directions. JE, for what it's worth I want to take a closer look at Pass' postings, because I had a vague feeling that there was some triangulation between them yesterday but want to make sure that it wasn't just that they both voted for me. They were the two I was deciding between yesterday to duke.

Well it's good to know that while I still may be wrong, I'm not completely out of nowhere. ;)

[Thomkal]

In for a quick visit. Nothing really to add at this point. I think its pretty clear we either vote for PurdueBrad to see if Barkeep was trying to save him, or one of those that voted with Barkeep on Path for the same reason. I haven't made up my mind yet which one of those people to vote for, but I could go for any of them.

[path12]

PB, my beef with you isn't so much your voting -- it's that Barkeep seemed interested in saving you.

Barkeep wasn't the only one. I just went back through yesterday.

[Passacaglia]

Barkeep wasn't the only one. I just went back through yesterday.

Right. Do you really think two wolves voted for the same guy to save PB within minutes of each other?

[path12]

The odds of PB being the seer again are the same as anyone else. (after voting ntn)

Let me guess -- on Day 2, you're going to hit me with the extension of this false reasoning, that you're less likely to be a wolf? :)

What's the case against Purdue, if there is any?

The odds are the same as anyone else. This argument gives no reason to vote for PB over anyone else. Odds are most of us aren't the seer.

Alan, I just thought I'd let you know I'm leaning toward voting for you. I think PB is getting an unfair shake enough as it is getting at least one vote just because he was the seer in our first attempt.

I just told you what my reason for protecting him would be -- it's the principle of the thing. I think ntn knows better than to get things started on PB than to use such faulty reasoning -- he is a math professor, after all! It just makes me worried about the bandwagon on him in general. I'd still been content to see what happens with the tiebreaker, but I'm starting to think this is a situation where I need to be involved.

The fact that he missed this is why I think PB is not really after you in a wolfish way.

That said, pretty much any Day 1 vote is going to be unfair.

Which makes me wonder why you were so concerned about it. Now today, you've put a vote for Purdue out there right away after arguing about not voting for him yesterday.

My problem with this analysis is that I would have expected Purdue to be scanned yesterday, and thus either cleared or not. The fact that nobody has come forward means one of three things:

1) Purdue is not a wolf. In which Pass' position of being against a vote for him yesterday and for a vote for him today is inconsistent.

2) Purdue is a wolf, and was saved by Barkeep, Pass or jeheinz in some combination. In which case Pass' early vote for him today makes sense in a distancing sort of way, with plenty of time to change it if Brad is actually in danger.

3) The seer scanned somebody else. This makes sense if you realize that the final vote count originally showed Purdue and I tied -- since I had a later first vote on me, the seer might have thought I would have gotten through the tiebreaker and scanned me. (the fact PB's vote wasn't showing on me wasn't pointed out until after deadline). Or the seer might have been unsure of how the tiebreaker worked and went in another direction. I don't know.

Either way, there is a link of sorts between Passacaglia and PurdueBrad based on Pass' defense of Brad yesterday. I think a vote for one of them will tell us something about the other and is the best thing I have to go on today.

By the way, there was one other person who was taking issue with Alan's vote for PB and that is Chief. However, on rereading that strikes me as more of an issue with Alan's reaction to his votes (which I was curious about at the time also), so I'm giving that less weight for right now.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[path12]

Right. Do you really think two wolves voted for the same guy to save PB within minutes of each other?

I always find that a Catch-22 argument. Pointing out how unlikely something is can just as easily be done on purpose in order to be able to point out how unlikely it is that it would be done. Or something like that. :)

[Passacaglia]

I always find that a Catch-22 argument. Pointing out how unlikely something is can just as easily be done on purpose in order to be able to point out how unlikely it is that it would be done. Or something like that. :)

I'll respond to this first. The point is that it's a gutsy move for the three wolves to get all associated with each other like that. Generally, when a theory leads to all the wolves being spotted easily, it's probably wrong. For example, when you came out and said that Anxiety was good when he was Lucifer, cronin and I knew you were lying, but figured that something else was going on, rather than assuming you were evil.

[Passacaglia]

Which makes me wonder why you were so concerned about it.

I work with statistics a lot. And ntn is a math professor. So his statement struck a chord with me. I defended PB because a bandwagon started based on ntn's admittdely faulty logic, and that just didn't seem right to me. Despite that, I still said I was content to let the tiebreaker handle it, but then Alan came out spouting his mouth.