2008 NFL Offseason Thread

[Atocep]

Hmmm, Lance Briggs stays with the Bears.

6 years $36 million. Pretty much the same deal thats been on the table for 2 years...

[Galaxy]

6 years $36 million. Pretty much the same deal thats been on the table for 2 years...

Really?

[rjolley]

Yes, good news. Now, address OL and RB.

[CU Tiger]

Who is going to catch any balls thrown by Bears QBs next year?
I mean I know they were rarely thrown well, but someeone at least needs to be on the field, right?

[TazFTW]

Bring back the wishbone!

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Hopefully he doesn't pull a porter. That's not even that much money, I wish the steelers weren't so goddamn cheap sometimes. And would quit payign worthless guys too much money.

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

[JetsIn06]

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

You can't compare the money being thrown around in free agency this year. This year is like MP FOF. Not too many great players, but a shitload of cap room, so players get huge deals.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

You can't compare the money being thrown around in free agency this year. This year is like MP FOF. Not too many great players, but a shitload of cap room, so players get huge deals.

It doesn't change the theme of my post which is that you can't characterize a contract like that (5 years/40 million) with a 31-year old guard as "not that much money." Lance Briggs just signed 6 years/36 million

[JetsIn06]

It doesn't change the theme of my post which is that you can't characterize a contract like that (5 years/40 million) with a 31-year old guard as "not that much money." Lance Briggs just signed 6 years/36 million

Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money for sure. It just sounded like you thought it was such a serious overpayment. The Jets did what they had to do to get him. There were two, maybe even three other teams that were willing to pay him only 1-mil less in guaranteed money.

[Tigercat]

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

Faneca has played like a hall of famer for most of his career. Hes been consistently the best interior lineman in the NFL. He may not be worth that kind of money, but if any interior lineman is....

[JetsIn06]

Faneca has played like a hall of famer for most of his career. Hes been consistently the best interior lineman in the NFL. He may not be worth that kind of money, but if any interior lineman is....

7-time pro bowler. Man, the Jets need him so badly. I'm very, very happy about this.

[Cringer]

I have to say I am kind of happy that the Packers traded DT Williams for the Browns' second round pick. I was a little (barely) surprised they franchise tagged him, so it makes complete sense now that they did that. I didn't want him walking away, but franchise tag money seemed like a bit of a stretch for the Packers at this point with a still fairly deep defensive line. Picking up a second round pick to have 3 of the first 60 picks is pretty nice and I expect to see Thomspon doing a few moves up or down in the draft once again.

[rjolley]

Who is going to catch any balls thrown by Bears QBs next year?
I mean I know they were rarely thrown well, but someeone at least needs to be on the field, right?Olsen, Clark, and whatever WR they can get to sign after the draft. Not that the QB will get the ball to them consistently...

[stevew]

Huh? 5 years, 40 million, with 21 million guaranteed for a guard, especially one who is 31 years old is ridiculous money. Did I say he was a guard? That is serious overpayment. Reports are that the average annual value of $8 million and the $21 million guaranteed is the most ever paid to a free agent offensive lineman. Did I say he was a guard?

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

[Suburban Rhythm]

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

You forgot Mahan.

[Galaxy]

Olsen, Clark, and whatever WR they can get to sign after the draft. Not that the QB will get the ball to them consistently...

Kind of funny when you list two tight ends as the top receivers. :)

I think the Bears will pick up a receiver in the first two rounds; as well as one later in the draft.

They need to start up front.

[rjolley]

Kind of funny when you list two tight ends as the top receivers. :)

I think the Bears will pick up a receiver in the first two rounds; as well as one later in the draft.

They need to start up front.Yeah, they need to go back to a grind it out offense and a dominating defense. It's the Chicago way.

[Cringer]

Losing is the Chicago way, and I hope they stay the course.

[Chief Rum]

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.

[Galaxy]

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.

As much as I hated the Bears extending the contracts of Grossman and Orton (only for a year), they really had no choice. Ryan and Brohm will likely be gone (and they are the best of a rather weak QB crop) by the time they pick. Not to mention waiting for a rookie to develop. And free agency offers very little.

They just don't seem strong any place on offense, expect at the tight end position. A quarterback or skill positions will not do much unless they get younger and better up front.

[rjolley]

True, the Bears haven't had great QB's. They've had good QB's from time to time, but no one great. Their winning teams have always been great defensively and at least good running the ball.

I don't think they need to steer away from that too far. Yes, they need a new QB. Grossman is not the answer and Orton is a fill gap measure at best. I always thought Orton would be the starter eventually. As for the WR, they tried to get a deal done with Berrian. He chose to not accept it. That is a major setback in the passing game for sure.

Since this isn't a one-season revamp type of fix, the focus should be on the OL and the running game. With a solid defense, that focus can get you a winning season. Look at San Diego this past season and the Bears the year before. I'm not talking about Superbowl winning, but a winning team.

[stevew]

Burner Turner to the falcons for 6/34. The falcons won't be taking McFadden.

[Atocep]

The Bears have done this trip before. Questionable QBing and no quality WRs? I thought that's what they called the late 90s and early 2000s in Chicago? And I don't remember too many of those teams doing too well.

I'm not a Bears fan so I don't have a horse in this race, but three of the worst bits of news I saw this week (from good/back impression) were Bears extend Grossman, Bears extend Orton, Bears let Berrian go to the Vikings.

Receivers from the draft aren't going to fix this problem. QB is a long standing and thorny issue that isn't easy to fill, so I'm not touching that one. But outside of being the Kansas City Chiefs or the Washington Redskins, finding a quality WR should not be that hard. The Bears need to get at least two veteran receivers to start, and then use a high pick on a WR in the draft to sit behind them and learn.

At least they resigned Briggs.


Angelo is to blame for putting them in the situation in the first place, but they've had little choice this offseason. Bringing Grossman back with a 1-year, heavily incentive laden deal is a no-brainer IMO. However, I still don't see what Angelo or Lovie sees in Orton, he's terrible and no business being a first or second team QB in the NFL. There will be a QB taken at some point in the first 3 rounds and chances are either Brohm, Flacco, or Henne will be there for their choosing. They've been talking about bringing Volek in if/when they dump Greise so they shouldn't be in the same situation they were last year where Grossman is the only legit option at QB.

Berrian has been an average 2nd receiver, at best, the last two years. The metrics used at football outsiders are not all that kind to him and if you watch him on a regular basis he has a horrible habit of quiting on routes when he's not the primary target I can think of at least 4 plays last year where that was the reason for an interception. So to pay him the $24.5 million over the first 3 years of a deal he was seeking would have been absolutely stupid.

What I don't get is why Angelo didn't make a run at Stallworth considering he's a better receiver than Berrian and ended up getting a very reasonable deal from Cleveland. Lovie has talked up Mark Bradley and the possibilty of using Hester as a starter next year, but there's no way either of those are ever more than a #3 or #4 receiver. I just can't see it.

[stevew]

I see the Bears making some stupid adjustment and signing Drew Carter for like 6 years and 32 million.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

[Aylmar]

I guess I was thinking relative of what they are currently paying 2 worthless fat POS linemen(Starks and Simmons).

To follow up on our previous conversation, I'm reading rumblings that the Steelers brass is strongly considering yanking the tag on Starks. So...looks like they're either close to a deal or they were just using it to gauge his value...

The Steelers have been burned a few times by massive third contracts (Jason Gildon, Dewayne Washington, Chad Scott), so I don't fault them for playing it safe on the far side of thirty with players. Speculation is that Simmons will move to the left side, where his mobility will be a lot more valuable than it was on the mostly straight blocking right side of the Steelers line (apologies if I said that before...I forget and am too lazy to go back and look at my post history).

[DeToxRox]

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

He'll more then likely become a Lion. Detroit needs an RB to compliment Kevin Jones, and Dunn is that guy, plus he knows Rod Marinelli from Tampa Bay, and respects him. Seems to make too much sense.

[rjolley]

I was hoping the Bears would go after Turner, even with the strong RBs in the draft. And why they didn't go after Stallworth is anyone's guess. I'm not sure there's anyone really left in the FA pool for them to go after that's worth it.

[Chief Rum]

As much as I hated the Bears extending the contracts of Grossman and Orton (only for a year), they really had no choice. Ryan and Brohm will likely be gone (and they are the best of a rather weak QB crop) by the time they pick. Not to mention waiting for a rookie to develop. And free agency offers very little.

They just don't seem strong any place on offense, expect at the tight end position. A quarterback or skill positions will not do much unless they get younger and better up front.

Yeah, I agree that there was little choice there; just the impression from an outsider of seeing those guys get resigned. That said, I think even some of the questionable QB FA out there at least give the impression of being a better option than going with these guys again. As noted, drop Orton at least and go sign Culpepper or McCown or Volek. At least bring someone in that has the potential to improve the team on the short term or at least for a few games of the year.

Even if those options aren't better than Grossman/Orton, at least they're different. You already know Grossman/Orton doesn't work.

As for WR, I agree Berrian wasn't really all that great, but it's easier to keep guys than to sign guys from elsewhere (unless you have done something to totally burn the bridge with the guy). I agree with whoever said letting Stallworth sign without competing for him was a mistake. Heck, letting Bruce sign with the Niners on the cheap was a mistake.

If the troubles up front are that bad, that is the area to target with the draft. You sign veteran WRs and draft good, young OL. Like I said, WRs can always be found. OL with the kind of athelticism and skill needed usually need to be taken in the draft. So depending on the draft for WR or QB takes away one more pick you could use on a quality young OL.

And since we hit all other points of the Bears offense, they also still have Benson at RB. Honestly, one year later and I still have no clue what they were thinking with the Jones deal. Benson proved even before they dealt Jones that he didn't have the right approach/attitude to be the dominant back they needed. And then they dealt him to switch up second round spots? Wow...

[Chief Rum]

So with the acquisition of Turner, it appears that Warrick Dunn's time with Atlanta will soon be coming to an end.

Who might take a shot at finding a role for Dunn?

Wouldn't Dunn still be a decent change of pacer back? Norwood is just like Turner, IIRC, and would probably have to be the primary backup. I don't recall that either Norwood or Turner are as good catching the ball out of the backfield as Dunn is.

Of course, if I were the Falcons, I would do Dunn a favor and move him to a contender and have that cap space for help elsewhere. You can always draft a scatback in the draft to be that change of pace guy (and usually you can get him in the 3rd or 4th round).

[Galaxy]

I see the Bears making some stupid adjustment and signing Drew Carter for like 6 years and 32 million.

Not seeing a link to this any place.

[Galaxy]

Yeah, I agree that there was little choice there; just the impression from an outsider of seeing those guys get resigned. That said, I think even some of the questionable QB FA out there at least give the impression of being a better option than going with these guys again. As noted, drop Orton at least and go sign Culpepper or McCown or Volek. At least bring someone in that has the potential to improve the team on the short term or at least for a few games of the year.

Even if those options aren't better than Grossman/Orton, at least they're different. You already know Grossman/Orton doesn't work.

As for WR, I agree Berrian wasn't really all that great, but it's easier to keep guys than to sign guys from elsewhere (unless you have done something to totally burn the bridge with the guy). I agree with whoever said letting Stallworth sign without competing for him was a mistake. Heck, letting Bruce sign with the Niners on the cheap was a mistake.

If the troubles up front are that bad, that is the area to target with the draft. You sign veteran WRs and draft good, young OL. Like I said, WRs can always be found. OL with the kind of athelticism and skill needed usually need to be taken in the draft. So depending on the draft for WR or QB takes away one more pick you could use on a quality young OL.

And since we hit all other points of the Bears offense, they also still have Benson at RB. Honestly, one year later and I still have no clue what they were thinking with the Jones deal. Benson proved even before they dealt Jones that he didn't have the right approach/attitude to be the dominant back they needed. And then they dealt him to switch up second round spots? Wow...

If anything, they could of at least tagged Berrian for this year. However, I don't think he is worth the money the Vikings gave him. I don't see him as a No. 1 receiver in the league. I think you could do better at the position then Berrian. Stallsworth would of been a terrific pickup. As dangerous as Hester is on special teams, I think they are hoping too much from him in being a receiver with his limited experience.

What is the Bears cap situation? Some of the moves (trading Jones when Benson has yet to prove himself) they make are strange.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bears have a TON of cap room (~30 mill prior to the Briggs resigning). Though I'm not as upset about losing Berrian as most people.

The Benson/Jones things is classic Angelo. Dude just cannot evaluate offensive talent.

[Atocep]

The Benson/Jones things is classic Angelo. Dude just cannot evaluate offensive talent.

Jones wasn't any better than Benson last year when he was on the field, plus he'll be 30 this year and was just extended. Trading him was the right call, what they did with the pick was classic Angelo.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, the Berrian thing again. It's not really about Berrian, who, has mentioned, is merely a decent starter. It's about the Bears' offense and the direwction they are going in with "building" it for next year. I haven't seen a forward step yet by them on that side of the ball this offseason.

[Chief Rum]

Jones wasn't any better than Benson last year when he was on the field, plus he'll be 30 this year and was just extended. Trading him was the right call, what they did with the pick was classic Angelo.

Trading him was the right call if:

A) Benson hadn't pissed off the coaches and teammates with his attitude and not nutting up to play with iffy injuries;
B) Benson had proven he could do better than Jones and with the same consistency
C) Angelo could trade a #1 back for more than, what, 10 spots in the 2nd round?

Sorry, not saying Jones was the long term answer, but Benson is not the answer, period. Everyone but Angelo and Lovie Smith knew that last offseason, and Benson did nothing to disprove it with his "chance" this pasty year. And getting nothing for Jones (yes, nothing) was weak. One of the worst offseason moves last year.

[Atocep]

Trading him was the right call if:

A) Benson hadn't pissed off the coaches and teammates with his attitude and not nutting up to play with iffy injuries;
B) Benson had proven he could do better than Jones and with the same consistency
C) Angelo could trade a #1 back for more than, what, 10 spots in the 2nd round?

Sorry, not saying Jones was the long term answer, but Benson is not the answer, period. Everyone but Angelo and Lovie Smith knew that last offseason, and Benson did nothing to disprove it with his "chance" this pasty year. And getting nothing for Jones (yes, nothing) was weak. One of the worst offseason moves last year.

The Bears got the same value for Jones (using the draft pick value chart) as the Bills did for McGahee, who is considerably younger.

Where the Angelo screwed up is using that pick to trade down in order to select a DE that they put on injured reserve to give him a year to develop.

[Chief Rum]

The Bears got the same value for Jones (using the draft pick value chart) as the Bills did for McGahee, who is considerably younger.

Where the Angelo screwed up is using that pick to trade down in order to select a DE that they put on injured reserve to give him a year to develop.

Huh? Better check that. My quick search has McGahee going to the Ravens for three picks, the Ravens' third and seven last year and their third this year. That's three picks, straight, for McGahee.

The Jets dropped just 26 spots in the draft to get Jones, exchanging picks.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, checked against the draft pick value chart, I see where you're going. I don't agree that it's as clear cut as that, though. The Jets may not get as good a player dropping like that, but they still have a pretty high draft pick where I doubt the player drafted at that point against what they would have gotten with the higher pick was that much of a difference. AND they added a #1 RB (at that time) for that.

The Bills added three whole players for McGahee, and while the seventh rounder is of questionable value, the third rounders are valuable. In my mind, there is no doubt that adding two young players via third round picks is far better than moving up 26 spots in the second round well before the draft.

[Atocep]

Bears - 275 draft points gained.

Bills - around 363

The big difference in the trade is how bad Baltimore turned out to be this year. If Baltimore is even a wild card team this year then the trade is even as far as points go.

The Bears got good value out of Jones, they just wasted the value with how they used the pick. When you consider just how bad Thomas Jones was this past year, the bears got excellent value out of what they got from the Jets.

[stevew]

Not seeing a link to this any place.

I was being hypothetical. Sorry if i was confusing.

[Logan]

Just read (EDIT: apparently incorrectly) that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

[Dunleavy]

Angelo is one of these guys that thinks he's a lot smarter then he actually is, but i still agree with him on most things

the thing with Berrian is he not worth the kind of money Minny gave him. i'm not sure why Angelo didnt "tag and release" Berrian for one more year. they need to bring in one savvy vet at WR to lead the group (in an off-field sense)

Briggs was different then Berrian b/c he is a legit ProBowler and worth the money. surprised there wasnt a better market for Briggs, only Washington was in on him

we all knew the bears werent going to make an early FA signing, Angelo doesnt like to overpay but hopefully some attention will be paid to the OL (2), WR, NT, S

QB and RB are a mess. i could see Angelo taking a QB in the 6th round but i dont see him going QB in 2nd (although Flecko is an interesting prospect to me). RB i would like to see APeterson cut but that wont happen (Lovie Loves him), so with 3 RB's on the roster i'm alittle concerned Angelo will stand pat when another back is needed

[Galaxy]

Any place to where the Draft value chart is listed?

[Galaxy]

Angelo is one of these guys that thinks he's a lot smarter then he actually is, but i still agree with him on most things

the thing with Berrian is he not worth the kind of money Minny gave him. i'm not sure why Angelo didnt "tag and release" Berrian for one more year. they need to bring in one savvy vet at WR to lead the group (in an off-field sense)

Briggs was different then Berrian b/c he is a legit ProBowler and worth the money. surprised there wasnt a better market for Briggs, only Washington was in on him

we all knew the bears werent going to make an early FA signing, Angelo doesnt like to overpay but hopefully some attention will be paid to the OL (2), WR, NT, S

QB and RB are a mess. i could see Angelo taking a QB in the 6th round but i dont see him going QB in 2nd (although Flecko is an interesting prospect to me). RB i would like to see APeterson cut but that wont happen (Lovie Loves him), so with 3 RB's on the roster i'm alittle concerned Angelo will stand pat when another back is needed

Last year's third round pick Wolfe seems like he won't amount to anything. Of course, has Chicago had a great back since Payton and Anderson (early 90's)? They just can't seem to draft them.

[korme]

Bad weekend to be a Bengals fan, the Browns are owning us

[Galaxy]

We need an "off-season In Pictures" Flere story.

[Sublime 2]

Just read that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

Excellent...any link?

[stevew]

Any place to where the Draft value chart is listed?

It's all over the net via the power of google.

[DaddyTorgo]

good to hear about Moss.

I have mucho concern about the Pats secondary ATM though. I think it's clear that will be addressed in the draft, but we need a good 2-3 players back there...

[tucker rocky]

We need an "off-season In Pictures" Flere story.

This would be great, lots of players moving around to new teams.

Yes, a special edition of "NFL Offseason in Pictures" is needed.

Come on flere, open up that paintboard and enlighten the followers. :)

[Galaxy]

It's all over the net via the power of google.

I know. I just wonder if any of them had any information on how they valued future picks?

[Sidhe]

In case anyone is interested in keeping up with the Saints, they signed DE McRay from Jacksonville and CB Gay from New England today. They got MLB Vilma from New York Jets Friday night. For once, they aren't just sitting on their thumbs..

[Galaril]

The Titans and TE Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal.
"The Titans and Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal. An announcement could come as early as Monday, barring any last-minute complications. Crumpler, a four-time Pro Bowler, visited with the Titans last month and his agent has remained in contact with the team. He also visited the Buccaneers and Seahawks. Crumpler recently completed his seventh NFL season, all with the Falcons. He has 316 catches for 4,212 yards and 35 touchdowns. But he was plagued by knee problems last season, when he had 44 receptions for 444 yards and five touchdowns. He was released by the Falcons on part because he counted $5.1 million against Atlanta’s 2008 salary cap."

ESPN is reporting that it is a 2 yr deal for $5.25M with a 1M signing bonus.:)

[Dunleavy]

like we were talking about in the other thread none of us really know whats going on with Alge

In response to a report that tight end Alge Crumpler has agreed to terms with the Tennessee Titans, Crumpler's agent denied that a deal is done.

''Where did you see that report?" agent James Williams told TitansRadio.com. "We talked on Sunday, lets put it that way. He has not signed a contract nor agreed to anything.''

[Chief Rum]

Bears - 275 draft points gained.

Bills - around 363

The big difference in the trade is how bad Baltimore turned out to be this year. If Baltimore is even a wild card team this year then the trade is even as far as points go.

The Bears got good value out of Jones, they just wasted the value with how they used the pick. When you consider just how bad Thomas Jones was this past year, the bears got excellent value out of what they got from the Jets.

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The Titans and TE Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal.
"The Titans and Alge Crumpler have agreed to a two-year deal. An announcement could come as early as Monday, barring any last-minute complications. Crumpler, a four-time Pro Bowler, visited with the Titans last month and his agent has remained in contact with the team. He also visited the Buccaneers and Seahawks. Crumpler recently completed his seventh NFL season, all with the Falcons. He has 316 catches for 4,212 yards and 35 touchdowns. But he was plagued by knee problems last season, when he had 44 receptions for 444 yards and five touchdowns. He was released by the Falcons on part because he counted $5.1 million against Atlanta’s 2008 salary cap."

ESPN is reporting that it is a 2 yr deal for $5.25M with a 1M signing bonus.:)

Crumpler's agent denies there is any done deal.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/blurb_view.cgi?blurb=news620380

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Just read that Moss re-signed with the Pats. 5 years, $52 million, with $25 mil guaranteed.

Where did you read this? I haven't seen this reported anywhere yet.

[Logan]

It was reported as a done deal on my fantasy football site, with the quote coming from WEEI. Obviously someone jumped the gun on it, I'll go back and edit.

[Butter]

Bad weekend to be a Bengals fan, the Browns are owning us

The Bengals NEVER try to do anything in free agency, unless it's picking up an old broken-down guy for under market value. Brown has NEVER been willing to overpay to bring in an impact player, or usually even overpay to keep his own guys. He builds through the draft exclusively, but then once a guy threatens to break the bank beyond what Brown thinks he's worth, he's gone.

I mean, there's a reason we don't win... the coaches can only work with the talent they're given. And for years and years, the defensive coaches have been given almost nothing to work with.

[stevew]

Waiting to hear the numbers on this, but I'm very happy. Especially since they got it done before Rivers or Manning did new deals which would have surely artificially inflated Ben's deal.

Ben Roethlisberger has received a belated birthday present from the Pittsburgh Steelers.

A very expensive present.
FOXSports.com has learned that the Steelers and Roethlisberger agreed today on a multiyear contact extension one day after the quarterback's 26th birthday.

An official announcement is expected this afternoon.

While details aren't yet available, Roethlisberger assuredly landed a lucrative deal that should place him among the NFL's highest-paid quarterbacks.

Roethlisberger had outplayed the rookie contract he signed as a 2004 first-round draft pick, leading Pittsburgh to a Super Bowl XL victory in just his second NFL season and an AFC North title in 2007.

Last year, Roethlisberger rebounded from a sub-par 2006 campaign by throwing for 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He excelled despite being sacked 47 times, the NFL's second-highest total behind Detroit's Jon Kitna (51).

Roethlisberger had two years remaining on his rookie contract. He was set to earn $1.4 million in base salary in 2008.

The Roethlisberger contract will probably be the biggest deal Pittsburgh makes this off-season. The Steelers are not big spenders in free agency, preferring to build their team through the draft.

[JAG]

That contract (A source with knowledge of the new contract to be signed by Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger tells us that Roethlisberger will receive a practical guarantee of $38.7 million) makes me VERY happy that Dallas locked up Romo last season.

[Atocep]

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

The difference in value between a high 2nd round pick and any 3rd round pick is huge. You're undervaluing the difference in picks. In the early 2nd round the chances of you landing a guy that you have labeled as a 1st round talent are very high and you're still aiming to land an immediate starter in most cases. The 3rd round is where you start taking backups and developmental players. Thats why the value in picks on the draft charts drop off significantly in the early-mid 2nd round.

[EventHorizon]

Sorry, still think it's apples and oranges with these two trades. The Bills actually added three whole new players with that deal. All the Bears did was pick a slightly better player (if Angelo had used the pick right). You ask me which way I go, it's the Bills the whole way. They made out well, while the Bears pretty much blew it.

In my humble opinion, the draft has so many variables and is such a dynamic process that in order to simplify it to a point that you can make base line evaluations on proposed trades involving picks you need to be able to reference a chart such as the one linked earlier. Remember, this isnt about the players who were drafted with the picks but rather the overall value of the draft picks themselves. I think that in order for you to see the point that Atocep is trying to make you need to remove the players drafted with said draft picks and look simply at the value of the draft pick position itself.

[Synovia]

Thats why the value in picks on the draft charts drop off significantly in the early-mid 2nd round.

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

[EventHorizon]

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

I woulld like to request evidence to support your theory. Its not that I do or don't believe you, I would simply like to see facts and figures that solidify your statement.

[Atocep]

The draft chart was designed in the 70s, and doesn't accurately reflect value of picks. Some teams use it, but most dont at this point. The salary cap changes everything, and high second round picks are EXTREMELY valueable, because of the high amount of talent left, and the extremely low cap impact.

The chart used in its current form was created by Jimmy Johnson in '89 and just about every team still uses it with their own tweaks and variations on it. They spent some time discussing it during last year's draft because the increasing cap hits on top 10 picks has caused teams to make some serious tweaks to their value.

[JAG]

The chart used in its current form was created by Jimmy Johnson in '89 and just about every team still uses it with their own tweaks and variations on it.

Not to nitpick, but it bugs me when I see the details referenced wrongly. Jimmy Johnson did not invent the chart but he was the first to make use of it.

Key quotes from below article:

"Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work."

"For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born."






Dallas started it, now giving point value to draft picks part of trade

11:05 PM CDT on Thursday, April 22, 2004

BY TODD ARCHER / The Dallas Morning News

IRVING - If the Cowboys make a trade in this weekend's NFL draft, you can thank The Chart.

The Chart, which has become NFL legend, accounts for a way of putting point values on picks 1 (3,000 points) through 255 (0.45). If a team wants to make a trade, then the points have to match up or come close.

Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work.

"He's one of the brightest minds I've been around," Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones said.

For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born.

"The more I played with it, the more obvious it became that there was a real, definite trend," McCoy said. "You were able to plot on a graph that showed historically that trades valued draft picks in certain ways. And from that graph, I made up a chart that assigned a numerical value to every single draft pick from the first in the first round to the last in the last round."

The confluence of Jones' business mind with Jimmy Johnson's knowledge of the college talent at that time helped produce five Pro Bowl players for the Cowboys in the next four drafts and 15 starters. Like in the business world, Jones took chances that paid off.

"Some people just can't work without knowing what the results will be at the end of the week," Jones said. "Others do better when they don't know what the results will be."

Said McCoy, "He [Jones] traded every day for a living, and this is what he liked to do, and he was trying to figure out how to get an advantage."

The Cowboys' approach to the draft was to get as many picks as possible, which raised the likelihood of finding more successful players. In 1991, they had 17 picks and 10 made the opening day roster. They were able to overcome the misses (guard James Richards in the third round, quarterback Bill Musgrave in the fourth) with hits on Erik Williams (third round), Leon Lett (seventh round) and Larry Brown (12th round).

Once a guarded secret, The Chart became more widely known as people started to leave the Cowboys organization because of the Super Bowl successes in the 1990s. Dave Wannstedt and Norv Turner took The Chart with them to Chicago and Washington. Scouts went to other teams, taking The Chart with them.

Soon, just about everybody had a copy of it, but Jones figures the Cowboys had a five-year advantage on most teams. Through the years, The Chart has been tweaked, especially when the draft went from 12 rounds to eight in 1993 and then to seven rounds in 1994.

"I think it's made it a little easier to trade now because people weren't worried about getting out-traded," McCoy said.

The Chart is a guide only. Teams will sometimes overpay to get a player they covet. Jones admits to getting burned in 1996. That year the Cowboys had the 30th pick worth 620 points, according to the current value chart. The Cowboys gave up that choice and picked up Washington's second- (37th overall) and third-round (67th) picks, which totaled 785 points. But the Cowboys didn't get the player they wanted.

The Cowboys had their eye on two defensive ends - Texas' Tony Brackens and McNeese State's Kavika Pittman. The Cowboys coveted Brackens, but he was drafted by Jacksonville, leaving the Cowboys with Pittman at No. 37.

"We got a little too cute there," Jones said.

But Jones also points to the selection of cornerback Kevin Smith, who was taken 17th overall in 1992. The Cowboys originally had the 13th pick in the first round but traded down to No. 19 before moving back up to No. 17 to take Smith. Through the flurry of the trades with Atlanta and New England, the Cowboys picked up a second-round pick that turned into safety Darren Woodson.

Two years ago, the Cowboys were able to get the player they wanted (Roy Williams) after trading from the fifth spot to eighth with Kansas City, while picking up the Chiefs' third-rounder. They used that pick to take cornerback Derek Ross, who intercepted five passes as a rookie but was cut in 2003 after a fallout with Bill Parcells.

Getting the third-round pick "was gravy," Jones said.

As well known as The Chart has become, McCoy was asked by a team about it this year.

"It's taken on a life of its own," Jones said. "The Chart has been the standard that trades are made by."

Collins signs tender offer: Cowboys tackle Javiar Collins signed his restricted free-agent tender offer worth $628,000 on Thursday. The only remaining restricted free agent the Cowboys need to sign is running back Troy Hambrick.

E-mail [email protected]

[Atocep]

Not to nitpick, but it bugs me when I see the details referenced wrongly. Jimmy Johnson did not invent the chart but he was the first to make use of it.

Key quotes from below article:

"Prior to the 1991 draft, the Cowboys wanted to figure out a way to value draft picks and how to trade them because they had so many picks. That's when Mike McCoy, a former minority owner of the team, went to work."

"For two days, McCoy analyzed trades from the previous four years and assigned a point value to each pick. And The Chart was born."

I knew it didn't date back to the '70s, but the articles I've read always referenced '89. Although by saying created by Jimmy Johnson I was referencing him and his coaching staff (I know Jimmy isn't that smart. ;)). I had no idea an owner came up with the chart.

Nice to read the real story behind it. Thanks.

[twothree]

Waiting to hear the numbers on this, but I'm very happy. Especially since they got it done before Rivers or Manning did new deals which would have surely artificially inflated Ben's deal.

$102 million over 8 years.... wow.

[miami_fan]

The Bengals NEVER try to do anything in free agency, unless it's picking up an old broken-down guy for under market value. Brown has NEVER been willing to overpay to bring in an impact player, or usually even overpay to keep his own guys. He builds through the draft exclusively, but then once a guy threatens to break the bank beyond what Brown thinks he's worth, he's gone.

I mean, there's a reason we don't win... the coaches can only work with the talent they're given. And for years and years, the defensive coaches have been given almost nothing to work with.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3274297

The New York Jets and Cincinnati Bengals have agreed to terms on a trade that would send defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson to the Bengals in exchange for Cincinnati's fourth- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 114 and 151) in the upcoming draft, according to league sources.


Nothing official yet but......

[watravaler]

As a Bears fan, I'm overjoyed with the bargain Angelo conned Briggs into accepting...on the other hand, I'm going to miss Berrian. He should be a monster on the turf, assuming the Queens can find a QB who can find him deep, as he should be open quite a bit...

[Cringer]

That contract (A source with knowledge of the new contract to be signed by Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger tells us that Roethlisberger will receive a practical guarantee of $38.7 million) makes me VERY happy that Dallas locked up Romo last season.

Romo shouldn't have anywhere near the money Ben has, Ben has won in the playoffs. :D

[Butter]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3274297

Nothing official yet but......

To be fair, this hardly counts as signing a free agent. Something they could still do, but also something I would be shocked by.

[miami_fan]

To be fair, this hardly counts as signing a free agent. Something they could still do, but also something I would be shocked by.

It had more to do with Robertson's possible addition to the talent that those defensive coaches have to work with.

[Butter]

It had more to do with Robertson's possible addition to the talent that those defensive coaches have to work with.

One could make an argument against Robertson's "talent" here, but for now I'll concede the point that they do seem to be attempting to improve, but again by doing it as cheaply as possible.

[SirFozzie]

Now the rumor RE:Moss by ESPN is a three year deal

[Synovia]

I woulld like to request evidence to support your theory. Its not that I do or don't believe you, I would simply like to see facts and figures that solidify your statement.


Trying to find the article. Its a footballoutsiders article doing regressions on picks vs salary cap, etc, using games started, pro bowls, DVOA, and a whole bunch of other methods of measuring player value.

In almost all of them, picks 20-40 help the team the most, because they have almost no cap impact, and usually end up being good starters. Your chances of getting a stud in the top 20 aren't really any higher than in the bottom of the round, the risks are just higher if you don't.


See 2 years ago, Reggie Bush at 50M, vs Joseph Addai/Lawrence Maroney at <$10M each.


The only case where this really doesn't happen is QB, because what he costs is totally irrelevant, if you hit, hes gonna wan't more money, if he busts, you're gonna need to cut him and your screwed for a couple years anyways.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Jets sign DE Calvin Pace and OL Damien Woody.

[Synovia]

Massey & Thaler, “The Loser’s Curse”

[st.cronin]

In a move that makes little sense to me for either team, Bears trade Griese to the Bucs.

[kurtism]

In a move that makes little sense to me for either team, Bears trade Griese to the Bucs.

Seems to make excellent sense for the Bears - I'd guess they exhausted their patience for him this season, and have plenty of backup QB talent around with Orton and Grossman. As for the Bucs, chalk it up to Chuckie's desire to have 206 QBs under contract every offseason...

[SteveMax58]

One could make an argument against Robertson's "talent" here, but for now I'll concede the point that they do seem to be attempting to improve, but again by doing it as cheaply as possible.

I actually think Cinci gets a better than great bargain here...and IMHO...a better overall 4-3 DT in Robertson. Coming out of college, he was a high motor, Warren Sapp-type of DT. At only 26...this guy has quite few years ahead of himself that I think will be very productive. But he's a complete waste in a 3-4...just wastes his penetration skills from the 3 technique.

Despite Rogers having such great talent...I dont think he plays hard most/every play and at this stage of his career he'll only be declining in ability, whereas Robertson will be steadily improving for a few more years...given the right system for him.

[Dunleavy]

As a Bears fan, I'm overjoyed with the bargain Angelo conned Briggs into accepting...on the other hand, I'm going to miss Berrian. He should be a monster on the turf, assuming the Queens can find a QB who can find him deep, as he should be open quite a bit...

Briggs didnt get conned, there just wasnt a market out there for him (not sure why as there was a market for everyone else, guess thats the life of a WLB). Washington was the only other team interested

the Griese deal makes sense for the Bears b/c Orton needs to spread his wings a bit more, i doubt that pick they got is worth anything

what is going on with the jets? they are spending some serious bank

[Galaxy]

I guess the Bears are expecting a visit from Cardinals receiver Bryant Johnson.

[sabotai]

The Giants signed Safety Sammy Knight (from Jacksonville). 3 years, $5.15 million. I really like Wilson's potential, but with Knight we get another good veteran in the secondary (and at a much lower price). I think Knight will do well in the Giants' system.

[DeToxRox]

Jets fans, welcome to the salary cap hell a regime that won't be in power when the time comes has created.

They're not going to be a playoff team next year, and then Mangini is out the door, and someone else has to clean this up. I mean Damian Woody, really?

[JPhillips]

Dewayne Robertson stays in NY for now. Contract negotiations broke down and the deal is off. Maybe Cincy can land him when he's cut this summer.

Antwan Odom signed with Cincy at @30 mil with 11 mil guaranteed over five years.

[DeToxRox]

PING: Eagle Fans

I read somewhere a Philly radio station is saying Philly is offering Lito + their first for Roy Williams. Can you help me out here?

[Logan]

That rumor has been making the rounds for about a week.

[DeToxRox]

That rumor has been making the rounds for about a week.

Interesting. I'd heard speculation but this is the first time I've heard specifics. That's a deal you do in a heartbeat.

[Logan]

Actually, I thought you said "Lito and a pick," not a first. I'm pretty sure I've seen it as a 2nd or a 3rd. I'll take a look around and see what was talked about.

[SteveMax58]

The Giants signed Safety Sammy Knight (from Jacksonville). 3 years, $5.15 million. I really like Wilson's potential, but with Knight we get another good veteran in the secondary (and at a much lower price). I think Knight will do well in the Giants' system.

I'm good with that. I liked Gibril too...but not for what the Raiders were throwing at him. He was a bit undersized for a SS(although he's very physical in run support), and average in coverage(although improving).

Sammy Knight should do well...and at a cap cost we can live with.

On a side note...I am dissappointed we lost Kawika Mitchell. I really liked the physical presence he brought to the D...something I thought we had been lacking for a few years.

[Galaril]

Crumpler's agent denies there is any done deal.

http://www.titansradio.com/cgi-bin/blurb_view.cgi?blurb=news620380

Crumpler's agent is a fucking idiot apparently. No wonder the Titans stole him for chump change. Deal now done.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hKgULMKPKHfkwDYk0-iDK-X0xdVAD8V5VGG01

[Cringer]

Crumpler's agent is a fucking idiot apparently. No wonder the Titans stole him for chump change. Deal now done.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hKgULMKPKHfkwDYk0-iDK-X0xdVAD8V5VGG01


Actually, what I was listening to today is that the reason the Titans got him so cheap is because he was getting crap for offers and many teams feel the Falcons were not crazy for cutting him.

[Dr. Sak]

According to the Boston Herald, the Eagles actually offered Randy Moss more money than New England did, but Moss did not want to leave the Patriots.

[rkmsuf]

According to the Boston Herald, the Eagles actually offered Randy Moss more money than New England did, but Moss did not want to leave the Patriots.

what a guy

[Kodos]

Too bad a certain cornerback wasn't such a "great guy". :D

[johnnyshaka]

Duckett to the Seahawks for 5 years per rotoworld.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Good deal for TJ. I liked him this year with the Lions. He ran pretty well when given the chance.

I really don't know what the Lions are planning on doing. I guess Julius Jones was in town meeting with the Lions. I can't see him being much an upgrade over Kevin Jones (other than Kevin Jones has suffered a number of serious injuries).

[Travis]

I'm curious how the Duckett signing filters down roster wise for Seattle. I'm assuming this might mean the end of Maurice Morris (with Weaver filling in his role of a receiver out of the backfield). Either way, should go a long ways to helping out their short yardage percentage which was awful last season.

[st.cronin]

Good deal for TJ. I liked him this year with the Lions. He ran pretty well when given the chance.

I really don't know what the Lions are planning on doing. I guess Julius Jones was in town meeting with the Lions. I can't see him being much an upgrade over Kevin Jones (other than Kevin Jones has suffered a number of serious injuries).

I think they will draft a RB. Somebody like Tashard Choice or Kevin Smith might be available in the 3rd round, or they could get Ray Rice in the 2nd round maybe.

[Mustang]

Raiders shell out $55 million for Javon Walker with $16 million guaranteed. :confused: :confused:

$105 million with roughly $34 million in guaranteed money for 2 guys with leg issues. Nice use of $.

Just because you found $100 million under the couch cushions Al doesn't mean you mean to spend it.

[st.cronin]

Raiders shell out $55 million for Javon Walker with $16 million guaranteed. :confused: :confused:

$105 million with roughly $34 million in guaranteed money for 2 guys with leg issues. Nice use of $.

Just because you found $100 million under the couch cushions Al doesn't mean you mean to spend it.


HOLY ____! :confused:

[Cringer]

Raiders shell out $55 million for Javon Walker with $16 million guaranteed. :confused: :confused:

$105 million with roughly $34 million in guaranteed money for 2 guys with leg issues. Nice use of $.

Just because you found $100 million under the couch cushions Al doesn't mean you mean to spend it.

Good for Javon. Can't wait to see him trying to talk his way off another team in two years like he did with Green Bay and Denver. He got another crap load of money though.

Raiders are dumb.

[Danny]

Raiders also signed T Kwame Harris who was a bust with the 49ers. The massive amounts of money aside, I'm happy the Raiders are at least putting in the effort to try improve the team. Will it work out? Who knows, but after the last five years why not try something. The organization likely won't be able to get back to where it once was until Al Davis is no longer the controlling owner, but perhaps throwing all this money around will lead to a little bit of luck and a decent season or two until then. Bottom line is they had to overpay to bring in talent because of the current reputation of the franchise, so I'd rather overpay and maybe be competitive and win 7 or 8 games.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Raiders also signed T Kwame Harris who was a bust with the 49ers. The massive amounts of money aside, I'm happy the Raiders are at least putting in the effort to try improve the team. Will it work out? Who knows, but after the last five years why not try something. The organization likely won't be able to get back to where it once was until Al Davis is no longer the controlling owner, but perhaps throwing all this money around will lead to a little bit of luck and a decent season or two until then. Bottom line is they had to overpay to bring in talent because of the current reputation of the franchise, so I'd rather overpay and maybe be competitive and win 7 or 8 games.

But sometimes doing nuthin' is better than what the Raiders did with the money. There are better ways of splashing out the cash.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yessir, the Bears alleviate their WR problems by signing.......wait for it.....Marty Booker.

2 year deal.

[rjolley]

I don't mind that signing so much if they didn't overspend and they draft a good prospect.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh I don't mind it. Booker has prolly got a couple good years left in him, and has better hands than Moose or Berrian. Not a real deep threat, but a servicable vet possession guy.

I just find it increasingly disgusting that they haven't done ANYTHING in free agency to date to alleviate the gaping holes all over the field.

[rjolley]

Yeah, I'm suprised they didn't go after Turner and Faneca.

Getting a pick for Griese was excellent, though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I will miss Brian Griese. He was one of the Lions' MVPs last year. He was pretty much directly responsible for 2 of their 7 wins.

[johnnyshaka]

I will miss Brian Griese. He was one of the Lions' MVPs last year. He was pretty much directly responsible for 2 of their 7 wins.

I'm sure Sexy Rexy or Orton will be just as good for you guys.

[Cringer]

People seem to think the NFC North is there for the taking now, with Favre retiring. Guys on the NFL Network yesterday seemed to think the Packers are .500 at best now. Of course they said that last year too.... :D

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm sure Sexy Rexy or Orton will be just as good for you guys.

You would think that, but...

Sexy Rexy is 2-0 in his career against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 40/63, 486 YDS, 4TD/0 Int.

Orton is 2-0 in his career against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 31/52, 380 YDS, 2TD/0 Int.

Last year, Griese was 0-2 against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 66/92, 494 YDS, 3 TD/7 Int.


Griese will be missed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

People seem to think the NFC North is there for the taking now, with Favre retiring. Guys on the NFL Network yesterday seemed to think the Packers are .500 at best now.

Let's hope they're right! Enough of the Packers always competing for the NFC North championship. It's LIONS TIME!!!!

[B & B]

I think that Tampa Bay could take this division, if it was the year 2000.

[johnnyshaka]

You would think that, but...

Sexy Rexy is 2-0 in his career against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 40/63, 486 YDS, 4TD/0 Int.

Orton is 2-0 in his career against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 31/52, 380 YDS, 2TD/0 Int.

Last year, Griese was 0-2 against the Lions:

His combined stats in those games: 66/92, 494 YDS, 3 TD/7 Int.


Griese will be missed.

With nobody to throw to except a couple of TEs and a return specialist and a piss poor running game EVEN the Lions should be excited to see the Bears on the opposite sideline.

;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Falcons released Joey Harrington.

We can assume he is now highly coveted by Tampa Bay ;)

Although he would be an upgrade in Chicago as well.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Falcons released Joey Harrington.

We can assume he is now highly coveted by Tampa Bay ;)

Although he would be an upgrade in Chicago as well.

:D

[Honolulu_Blue]

So, this leaves the Falcons with Chris Redman and DJ Shockley?

Ouch.

Edit: Then again the adding Joey Harrington to that duo really doesn't improve things.

[rkmsuf]

So, this leaves the Falcons with Chris Redman and DJ Shockley?

Ouch.

Edit: Then again the adding Joey Harrington to that duo really doesn't improve things.

Matt Ryan probably.

[Dr. Sak]

Too bad Petrino didn't stay...he'd be able to draft Brohm.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Matt Ryan probably.

Probably. But I can't see that going all that well. I mean, he's got to be the starter by Game 4, no?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Probably. But I can't see that going all that well. I mean, he's got to be the starter by Game 4, no?

Given that Redman & Shockley (and whatever veteran FA they add to the group) will likely be on IR by Game 4 thanks to the state of the offensive line, yeah, the rookie will probably be starting by then. Although in D.J.'s case, it's a coin toss whether he even makes it that far (knee injury as a backup in '03 missed half a season, strained MCL in '05 missed 2 1/2 games in his only season as a starter, ACL & MCL injury last year in preseason missed entire year).

And let's face it, these are the Falcons we're talking about. Whatever QB they draft is destined to become the next Joey Harrington.

[Kodos]

Was Steve Bartkowski the last good throwing quarterback that Atlanta had? I mean, besides Brett Favre. ;)

[ISiddiqui]

Chris Chandler wasn't bad when healthy (admittedly that was a very rare thing).

[ISiddiqui]

So, this leaves the Falcons with Chris Redman and DJ Shockley?

Ouch.

Edit: Then again the adding Joey Harrington to that duo really doesn't improve things.

It's ok. They plan to lure Brett Favre out of retirement ;).

[st.cronin]

Probably. But I can't see that going all that well. I mean, he's got to be the starter by Game 4, no?

Game 1, seemingly. Although Daunte Culpepper is still available, right?

[Danny]

After seeing a couple of the contract breakdowns of the Raiders acquisitions, I think both the media and fans get way too carried away with initial contract numbers. Saying someone signed for X amount of years and X amount of dollars really is not an accurate way to evaluate anything in the NFL because of the lack of most of the money being guaranteed.

A couple examples. Kwame Harris signed a 3 year 16 million dollar deal yesterday. Seemingly too much for someone who was not a good starter with the 49ers. Well, his contract actually equates to a 1 year deal for 3 million. None of the money in year two or three is guaranteed, so if he turns it around they can restructure and keep him, if he busts they can cut him with very little financial harm done.

Javon Walker signed a 6 year, 50 million with 16 million guaranteed. His contract actually equates to a 2 year deal worth 16 million. The signing bonus is 6 million and his salaries in year one and two are guaranteed at 5 million a piece taking care of all of the guaranteed money. Is he still overpaid at 8 million a year for two seasons? Most likely, but its still a more reasonable deal. I don't know the breakdown, but its probably similar with Tommy Kelly and Gibril Wilson.

I'm not trying to evaluate these signings, I just happen to follow this team, so I know more specifics. I would guess that most of the contracts signed by other players with other teams are similar.

My point is that free agent signings should be evaluated by the talent a teams adds and the needs they address. the uproar from individuals over money that will most likely never even be seen by the player is ridiculous.

[Brownkeg8]

After seeing a couple of the contract breakdowns of the Raiders acquisitions, I think both the media and fans get way too carried away with initial contract numbers. Saying someone signed for X amount of years and X amount of dollars really is not an accurate way to evaluate anything in the NFL because of the lack of most of the money being guaranteed.

A couple examples. Kwame Harris signed a 3 year 16 million dollar deal yesterday. Seemingly too much for someone who was not a good starter with the 49ers. Well, his contract actually equates to a 1 year deal for 3 million. None of the money in year two or three is guaranteed, so if he turns it around they can restructure and keep him, if he busts they can cut him with very little financial harm done.

Javon Walker signed a 6 year, 50 million with 16 million guaranteed. His contract actually equates to a 2 year deal worth 16 million. The signing bonus is 6 million and his salaries in year one and two are guaranteed at 5 million a piece taking care of all of the guaranteed money. Is he still overpaid at 8 million a year for two seasons? Most likely, but its still a more reasonable deal. I don't know the breakdown, but its probably similar with Tommy Kelly and Gibril Wilson.

I'm not trying to evaluate these signings, I just happen to follow this team, so I know more specifics. I would guess that most of the contracts signed by other players with other teams are similar.

My point is that free agent signings should be evaluated by the talent a teams adds and the needs they address. the uproar from individuals over money that will most likely never even be seen by the player is ridiculous.
very true- good write up

[Dr. Sak]

I just heard that the Eagles cut Takeo Spikes.

[Logan]

Pretty funny read:

2008 NFL Movie Character Mock Draft (http://www.tiricosuave.com/2008/03/05/2008-nfl-movie-character-mock-draft/)

[Warhammer]

Didn't the Falcons have Chris Miller too for a few seasons in the mid-90s?

[Coffee Warlord]

Pretty funny read:

2008 NFL Movie Character Mock Draft (http://www.tiricosuave.com/2008/03/05/2008-nfl-movie-character-mock-draft/)

Heh. And from that, on a whim, I looked up the girl who played Becky from Little Giants on IMDB, to see if she got hot. Answer: Yes.

[Logan]

Hmm. Seconded. Not too bad there, Icebox.

[SirFozzie]

I just heard that the Eagles cut Takeo Spikes.

Love to have him on the Pats, mind you

[Dr. Sak]

I liked him but he has been injury prone the past couple of years.

[johnnyshaka]

Love to have him on the Pats, mind you

Is he old enough to play LB for the Pats yet?

:)

[Dr. Sak]

Heh. And from that, on a whim, I looked up the girl who played Becky from Little Giants on IMDB, to see if she got hot. Answer: Yes.

In the words of Tyrone Biggums...gawh damn!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Didn't the Falcons have Chris Miller too for a few seasons in the mid-90s?

Yep, one of their better QB draft picks actually (which says something about the rest of them).

[tucker rocky]

Dallas shopping TO, Raiders intrerested, possibly the 1st round pick in upcoming draft from Oakland to Dallas?!?

[TazFTW]

Dallas shopping TO, Raiders intrerested, possibly the 1st round pick in upcoming draft from Oakland to Dallas?!?

Say what?

[Swaggs]

TO is 1st round talent, but about 6th round reliability.

So, he is probably only able to fetch something in between. Of course, it is the Raiders... :)

Dallas shopping TO, Raiders intrerested, possibly the 1st round pick in upcoming draft from Oakland to Dallas?!?

[miami_fan]

Julius Jones to the Seahawks.

[johnnyshaka]

Hmmm...JJ, TJ, MoMo, and Shaun Alexander. That's a pretty crowded backfield unless Holmgren is going to breakout the Wishbone.

[Danny]

Alexander is gone.

[stevew]

I wonder where Shaun will end up? I'd think somewhere like Detroit or Houston could use him. Maybe the Jets or Cardinals as well.

[tucker rocky]

Dallas shopping TO, Raiders intrerested, possibly the 1st round pick in upcoming draft from Oakland to Dallas?!?

Say what?

Uhh... is there a link? Because that sounds preposterous. You think Moss tanked it in Oakland?

TO is 1st round talent, but about 6th round reliability.

So, he is probably only able to fetch something in between. Of course, it is the Raiders... :)

Just kidding folks. :D :D :D

[tucker rocky]

I had to post that about TO, since the Raiders seem to be making boneheaded deals lately. ;)

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh.

Bears sign Brandon Lloyd to a 1 year deal. And his first quote?

The outspoken side of Lloyd may never go away. During Friday's teleconference, he was asked about the Bears' quarterback situation. Without hesitation, he said, " Rex Grossman is the starter and coach Ron Turner and coach Lovie [Smith] think very highly of him."

Turner immediately chimed in and clarified the matter, emphasizing that it is an open competition between the quarterbacks.

[Subby]

Redskins offseason is already a success - cutting Brandon Lloyd and re-signing Rock Cartwright...

[Suburban Rhythm]

I wonder where Shaun will end up? I'd think somewhere like Detroit or Houston could use him. Maybe the Jets or Cardinals as well.

I was listening on the radio earlier, forget which idiots, and they are throwing out all these names of teams...except Houston, which I think is the most obvious.

Arizona doesn't make much sense to me, since I don't see him and Edge splitting carries working real well.

Next question is...Shaun Alexander, HOF?

[st.cronin]

Turner immediately chimed in and clarified the matter, emphasizing that it is an open competition between the quarterbacks.

Its just Grossman and Orton, now, right? Nobody else in the mix?

[miami_fan]

Next question is...Shaun Alexander, HOF?

You're kidding right?

[st.cronin]

Some draft speculations:

New England (and also New Orleans) look to be in an excellent position to trade down from their first round pick. Jacksonville picks at 26, and has one clear need that I can see (defensive end). If they want to get one of the top DE's in the draft, they will likely need to move up. The Pats and the Saints are about where they would need to get to, and are the only teams in that range that probably wouldn't want to draft a DE. There are other teams that might want to get up to one of those spots, too, like Washington.

A similar thing could happen with DT, if Sedrick Ellis is still on the board at #7. Denver would probably be willing to move up, as might some other teams like, again, Washington.

New Orleans is a team with a lot of holes, and would benefit from picking up some extra picks, while New England ... I'm just not sure there's anybody that should be drafted that high that makes any sense for them.

[Suburban Rhythm]

You're kidding right?

Not really. His rookie year he split carries with Watters. He had 5 outstanding seasons, followed by 2 average and injury-filled seasons.

Is that a HOF career?

I get he's got 100 career TDs, which is a great accomplishment. But you really think that makes him a slam dunk for the HOF?

[Logan]

I really hope the bewilderment was for him being in the conversation about entering the HoF without buying a ticket or being invited as Walter Jones' guest.

[st.cronin]

I really hope the bewilderment was for him being in the conversation about entering the HoF without buying a ticket or being invited as Walter Jones' guest.

+1

I mean, I guess we could just put every running back in the hall of fame.

[miami_fan]

I really hope the bewilderment was for him being in the conversation about entering the HoF without buying a ticket or being invited as Walter Jones' guest.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner

[stevew]

I'd say alexander needs at least 4000 more yards at a respectable YPC before he gets any kind of serious consideration. And that's also just cause he has a sick amount of TD's, realistically he'll end up with the 3rd most rushing TD's of all time, behind Emmit and LT.

[Cringer]

Packer's Fan Fest is going on, so lots of players up in Green Bay before some team workouts this next week.

Aaron Rodgers, or as Donald Driver calls him A-Rod, had his first press conference as a starter. I love the guy's attitude, he had good answers to all the questions. I am actually excited now to see how he does.

[Chief Rum]

Not really. His rookie year he split carries with Watters. He had 5 outstanding seasons, followed by 2 average and injury-filled seasons.

Is that a HOF career?

I get he's got 100 career TDs, which is a great accomplishment. But you really think that makes him a slam dunk for the HOF?

I don't get this. You were the one posting the original question (which, the way posed, seems to imply you favor that). miami fan rightly questions even the suggestion. Then you post this, which seems to be arguing against it. Are you just arguing with yourself to pass the time between hockey draft pocks? :)

[Suburban Rhythm]

I don't get this. You were the one posting the original question (which, the way posed, seems to imply you favor that). miami fan rightly questions even the suggestion. Then you post this, which seems to be arguing against it. Are you just arguing with yourself to pass the time between hockey draft pocks? :)

Didn't mean to have it appear as I was in favor of Alexander in the HOF. Simply throwing it out there, as his career as a Seahawk is over, and his NFL career as a whole severely on the downswing.

I should have gone with, HOFer, yes or no? Discuss.

And obviously, from the 2nd answer, I am on the no side of the aisle.

[Coffee Warlord]

Its just Grossman and Orton, now, right? Nobody else in the mix?

Barring them drafting, yep. Which basically means Grossman.

[Chief Rum]

Barring them drafting, yep. Which basically means Grossman.

So who will the Bears target in the 2009 Top 10 draft class? My guess is Sanchez from SC or Tebow for UF.

[like a dog]

So who will the Bears target in the 2009 Top 10 draft class? My guess is Sanchez from SC or Tebow for UF.

Tebow is not a quarterback in the NFL.

[Atocep]

So who will the Bears target in the 2009 Top 10 draft class? My guess is Sanchez from SC or Tebow for UF.

Angelo seems to be in love with Flacco, which means its likely that someone else that wants him will make sure they're in position to take him ahead of the bears in the 2nd.

Angelo is clueless when it comes to the offensive side of the ball. He had Mike Williams rated as the top receiver in the '05 draft and Cedric Benson above Ronnie Brown.

[k0ruptr]

Tebow is not a quarterback in the NFL.

BUT do the bears have a need for FB after this season?

[bhlloy]

So who will the Bears target in the 2009 Top 10 draft class? My guess is Sanchez from SC

Pretty high praise for a guy that is only 50/50 to win the starting job and hasn't done anything in college yet. My guess is that neither of the guys you mention will end up having a successful NFL career.

[Chief Rum]

Tebow is not a quarterback in the NFL.

lol...I hope you're just tossing this out there as your Hardy to my Laurel.

[Chief Rum]

Pretty high praise for a guy that is only 50/50 to win the starting job and hasn't done anything in college yet. My guess is that neither of the guys you mention will end up having a successful NFL career.

Well, you realize the point wasn't to try to assess the potential of either QB, right? It was about the Bears' expected Top 10 pick next year. ;)

This is an NFL thread.

[B & B]

David Carr visiting Lions?

WANTED: Replacement players for run down Detroit football team. Football knowledge not necessary, expectations are low. Must be physically present on Sunday, and be willing to collect a large paycheck for minimal work. Employer is not really paying attention. Customers are.

[Skolleck]

Barring them drafting, yep. Which basically means Grossman.


I like Orton actually. He manages the game well and if he had a few more weapons would be a passable starter, like Dilfer or Delhomme (both a few years ago).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Warrick Dunn returns to the Bucs (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/shared-gen/ap/General_Football_News/FBN_Buccaneers_Dunn.html)

[rkmsuf]

I like Orton actually. He manages the game well and if he had a few more weapons would be a passable starter, like Dilfer or Delhomme (both a few years ago).

When you say someone manages the game well it means he sucks and hopefully your defense can win it for you.

[Suburban Rhythm]

When you say someone manages the game well it means he sucks and hopefully your defense can win it for you.

Manages the game = she's got a great personality

[Arles]

Cards finally got out of the Fitz mess. Signed him to a 4-year, $40 million deal:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3287855

The Arizona Cardinals and wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald reached agreement on a blockbuster four-year, $40 million contract that will free up much-needed salary cap room for the team.

Fitzgerald announced the deal on his Web site, saying he will make $33 million over the first three years of the contract.

Over the final two years of his old deal, Fitzgerald was scheduled to make $14,592,500 in 2008 and $17,355,000 in 2009. That put the team in a tight cap bind -- with less than $400,000 of cap room remaining -- so signing players was tough until they struck a deal with Fitzgerald. They had only 48 players on their roster and only 16 players on defense.

The team was trying to find a way to convince Fitzgerald to sign a six-year deal. In the end, Fitzgerald got his way and signed a four-year deal.

Fitzgerald will receive a $15 million signing bonus Tuesday. His base salary will be $2 million, giving him a $17 million payout this year. He has a $5 million option bonus in 2009. Over the four years of his contract, he will receive $30 million in guarantees.

The new deal will save the team $8.842 million in cap room, dropping his salary cap number from $16,485,000 to $7,643,334.

It's a shame they couldn't have done this two weeks ago as maybe Faneca would be in Arizona right now instead of New York.

[Thomkal]

thank the football gods my beloved Cards finally redid his contract, now maybe they can actually sign some free agents. Stupidity on the part of Cardinals management not to get this done before free agency began since they knew they were going to have cap problems heading in.

[Atocep]

Manages the game = she's got a great personality

Or in this case, grows an amazing neckbeard.

[stevew]

I can't believe he caved in. Basically he traded essentially 31m guaranteed over 2 years for 40m over 4. It's not like they were going to cut him. He must really have wanted to stay for some reason. There's gotta be some huge incentives in year 4 I would have thought.

[Arles]

I can't believe he caved in. Basically he traded essentially 31m guaranteed over 2 years for 40m over 4. It's not like they were going to cut him. He must really have wanted to stay for some reason. There's gotta be some huge incentives in year 4 I would have thought.
They could have traded him and there's no way the team bringing him in would agree to that contract. In essence, he traded $14 million this year and $17 million next for $17 million this year and $16 million over the next two seasons. I think year 4 may be a player option (or it has a $7 mil base + incentives).

[Atocep]

I can't believe he caved in. Basically he traded essentially 31m guaranteed over 2 years for 40m over 4. It's not like they were going to cut him. He must really have wanted to stay for some reason. There's gotta be some huge incentives in year 4 I would have thought.

From what I've heard, the cardinals wanted to go 6 years, but Fitzgerald was the one insisting on a 4 year deal because he's looking at a big contract when he's 28.

The cardinals were in horrible cap shape, they either had to rework his contract or look at the possibility of trading him. I read somewhere they just 16 defensive players under contract or something crazy like that.

[Cringer]

I can't believe he caved in. Basically he traded essentially 31m guaranteed over 2 years for 40m over 4. It's not like they were going to cut him. He must really have wanted to stay for some reason. There's gotta be some huge incentives in year 4 I would have thought.

Maybe he knew his contract was hurting the team and he wants some glimmer of hope of going to the playoffs

[stevew]

They are the cardinals though.

[stevew]

dola
I would hope he got some sort of language built in to the new deal so that he could not be franchised at any time.

[AlexB]

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?id=09000d5d80722521&template=with-video&confirm=true

We know two things for sure: despite Goodell worrying about teams spying, there can be no accusations that the Rams taped the Dolphins early season matches :D

$2.1m bonus and $4m 1st year? I can only guess they drafting a QB, and Green's FOF card would have 'Mentor' on it...

[st.cronin]

Harrington resigns with the Falcons. Maybe they're not thinking about Ryan at 1.3 after all.

[bhlloy]

The only thing I can conclude from the Green signing is that he pissed somebody in the Rams front office before he left, and said guy is getting his own back. It's almost too much money for a guy who was going to retire - "hey, he won't be able to turn THIS down, and then we put him behind the worst line in the league and dude can't run anymore and is on his eighteenth concussion. heh heh heh. he'll be a cabbage before the end of the preseason"

[st.cronin]

Also the Jets signed Jesse Chatman. Hmmm.

[Thomkal]

Harrington resigns with the Falcons. Maybe they're not thinking about Ryan at 1.3 after all.

Oh I think they still are going QB at 1.3. I was surprised when they cut Harrington, maybe it was for cap reasons. Given last year's rash of QB injuries, you need a good second string QB, and Harrington's not a bad choice there, especially given the other choices on the roster at the moment. And he can be a mentor for which ever QB they go for.

[QuikSand]

Redskins offseason is already a success - cutting Brandon Lloyd and re-signing Rock Cartwright...

Speaking of Cartwright... he seems to me like the standard type of guy we see all the time in FOF free agency, who's sitting out there asking for either minimum salary or maybe a shade more. I see that Cartwright signed for three years with the Skins... I wonder how much they had to pay him to get him to lock up for multiple years. I generally believe this is *too easy* to do in FOF... he seems like a good example of same. I think of him as the standard type pf guy who fits this bill... modest bars, adds some cohesion or maybe an affinity, can play some special teams... valuable to you, but not a guy you exactly build around, nor one that another team is going to swoop in and overpay for, either.

[QuikSand]

Harrington resigns with the Falcons. Maybe they're not thinking about Ryan at 1.3 after all.

What possible connection could you see between these two decisions?

[st.cronin]

What possible connection could you see between these two decisions?

Keep in mind, they had already resigned Chris Redman. I just think it would be odd to sign two veteran qbs, and then draft somebody with the third pick.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Latest out of Detroit is that the Lions have cut running back Kevin Jones.

Their backfield now consists of Tatum Bell, who was benched for the final 10 games last year; Aveion Cason, who has been cut and re-signed by the Lions more times than I can count; and Brian Calhoun, who has spent the last two seasons on IR.

They fire Mike Martz and hire Jim Colleto to be the offensive coordinator so they can take the emphasis off the passing game - and, by extension, their two Top Five Overall Wide Receivers, Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson - and focus on a more balanced attack using the running game to set up the passing game.

This team makes no fucking sense.

[MikeVic]

Cut Kevin Jones? Why??

[DeToxRox]

Latest out of Detroit is that the Lions have cut running back Kevin Jones.

Their backfield now consists of Tatum Bell, who was benched for the final 10 games last year; Aveion Cason, who has been cut and re-signed by the Lions more times than I can count; and Brian Calhoun, who has spent the last two seasons on IR.

They fire Mike Martz and hire Jim Colleto to be the offensive coordinator so they can take the emphasis off the passing game - and, by extension, their two Top Five Overall Wide Receivers, Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson - and focus on a more balanced attack using the running game to set up the passing game.

This team makes no fucking sense.

Its obviously my mock draft intuitiviness. But hey if we go RB now which we should, we won't take bust Otah.

[Travis]

Cut Kevin Jones? Why??

a) So the Seahawks can sign him

b) So the Lions have ample cap room to sign Shaun Alexander once he's cut

[Honolulu_Blue]

Now the Lions have released defensive end Kalimba Edwards.

He sucks.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is just depressing:

From the 2002 draft, the Lions have one player remaining (fifth-rounder John Owens, who has bounced around the league). From the 2003 draft, the Lions have one player remaining (Cory Redding). The Lions do not have a starter on the roster, other than Roy Williams, from the 2004 and 2005 drafts.

[DeToxRox]

It's okay though, we have Chuck Darby

[Dunleavy]

STEWART GETS SURGERY
Posted by Mike Florio on March 13, 2008, 8:05 p.m.
In a draft that has plenty of tailbacks, one of them has a question mark sprouting from his shoes.

According to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, Oregon running back Jonathan Strewart had surgery on Wednesday to repair a fracture in his foot.

As a result, Stewart will be out for four months, and will miss his Pro Day workout. The goal in having the surgery now was to ensure that Stewart would be ready for the start of training camp.

Stewart had the injury in February, when he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.45 seconds at the Scouting Combine. He also churned out a 36-inch vertical jump.

The situation has drawn comparisons to Vikings running back Adrian Peterson, whose broken collarbone arguably prompted a mini-slide to No. 7 in the 2007 draft. But most running backs don’t use their collarbones to, you know, run.

Really, how can anyone justify a first-day pick (which is now only rounds one and two) on a guy with a surgically-repaired foot?


Stewart was a first round lock, #3 rated RB. let his fall begin...

[bulletsponge]

This is just depressing:

From the 2002 draft, the Lions have one player remaining (fifth-rounder John Owens, who has bounced around the league). From the 2003 draft, the Lions have one player remaining (Cory Redding). The Lions do not have a starter on the roster, other than Roy Williams, from the 2004 and 2005 drafts.

i feel sorry for Lions fans who have to deal with Matt Millen as a gm. im sure they can throw a football into the stands and hit someone who could do a better job than him.

[DeToxRox]

Stewart was a first round lock, #3 rated RB. let his fall begin...

I'd still take him #15. He'll be ready for camp and the kid is a load.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Now the Lions have released safety Kenoy Kennedy.

He sucks.

[Radii]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3295344


The Atlanta Falcons have reached an agreement in principle with the Oakland Raiders to trade cornerback DeAngelo Hall for the Raiders' second-round pick in the 2008 draft, pending the Raiders finalizing a contract with Hall, according to a source close to the Falcons.

Hall is close to agreeing to a contract with the Raiders that will pay him just below what Asante Samuel signed with the Eagles, according to the source. Samuel signed a six-year deal worth a reported $57 million, with $20 million guaranteed.

Hall is a former first-rounder taken with the eighth pick in the 2004 draft.



Is Atlanta really better off w/ a 2nd round pick instead of Hall?

[TazFTW]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3295344




Is Atlanta really better off w/ a 2nd round pick instead of Hall?

Do the rest of the players still hate him? If so, I would say a 2nd rounder is better than Hall.

[SteveMax58]

Is Atlanta really better off w/ a 2nd round pick instead of Hall?

This must be a mistake...Oakland was only asking for Anthony Michael Hall...not DeAngelo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is Atlanta really better off w/ a 2nd round pick instead of Hall?

Atlanta would be better off with something derived from picking their nose than having excrement like Meangelo on the team.

[Thomkal]

Boy what a shocker that the Raiders would be interested in Hall

[Raiders Army]

To give up a 2nd round pick and then have to pay a guy like Hall...

[DeToxRox]

To give up a 2nd round pick and then have to pay a guy like Hall...

But it's okay he's a great teammate.

[Eaglesfan27]

Sort of an interesting move: The Eagles signed DT Dan Klecko from the Colts where he also played as a short yardage FB. The Eagles plan on converting him to a full time FB. They should hit the trim down button come training camp to help him make the move.

[Logan]

He was always an undersized DT. He played at maybe 260 while he was at Temple (and less while he was with me at Marlboro High School :)).

[molson]

Sort of an interesting move: The Eagles signed DT Dan Klecko from the Colts where he also played as a short yardage FB. The Eagles plan on converting him to a full time FB. They should hit the trim down button come training camp to help him make the move.

I love Klecko - he just seems like a guy that would have fit in with any team in any era, including the 1860s Harvard Crimson. The Pats used him all over both sides of the ball and he was a fan favorite.

[stevew]

Hey SR, finally.


Steelers release Wilson
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Steelers have released veteran wide receiver Cedrick Wilson, the team announced Thursday morning.

Wilson, who was entering his eighth NFL season, was arrested Wednesday night for hitting his former girlfriend in a Pine restaurant, and was charged by police with simple assault, harrassment and disorderly conduct.

In January, the woman, Lindsey Paulat, 26, of Fawn, was involved in a lengthy armed standoff at Wilson's home, police said.

Wilson signed with the Steelers in March 2005 as an unrestricted free agent from the San Francisco 49ers. In three seasons with the Steelers Wilson caught 81 passes for 1,162 yards and two touchdowns.

Shame it took "chokin' a bitch" to get his ass gone, I would have thought horrendous play would have lead to the same result. Then again Kirschke's been around 5 years now.

We're turning into the damn Bengals, part 2.

[Buccaneer]

The main reason I hate the Denver Donkeys is because of Mike Shanahan. I had never, ever liked that weasel-faced, beady-eyed twerp. Apparently someone died and made him king so he could fire the GM. Now he let perhaps the most popular player go (Elam) when I believe he was waiting around for them to make a good offer.

With Vick and Hall, as well as Petrino, gone, I may become a Falcons fan yet.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Hey SR, finally.




Shame it took "chokin' a bitch" to get his ass gone, I would have thought horrendous play would have lead to the same result. Then again Kirschke's been around 5 years now.

We're turning into the damn Bengals, part 2.

:D :D :D

Sadly, it will be spun into he was released because of the legal problems, and not because he flat out sucked. That would mean they'd be admitting the screwed up in the first place in signing him.

[Greyroofoo]

NEW YORK (AP) - The San Francisco 49ers have forfeited their fifth-round pick in next month's NFL draft after commissioner Roger Goodell deemed them guilty of tampering with Chicago linebacker Lance Briggs.

Goodell also determined the teams will switch picks in the third round of the April 26-27 draft. Chicago, which had the 12th pick, will get San Francisco's seventh pick and the 49ers will get Chicago's choice.

Goodell determined that the 49ers violated the NFL's anti-tampering policy by contacting Briggs' agent, Drew Rosenhaus, about his client during the 2007 season.

Why am I not surprised to see Drew's name come up?

[Honolulu_Blue]

The 49ers lose their 5th round pick and they have to swap 3rd round picks with the Bears.

[JeeberD]

Hey SR, finally.




Shame it took "chokin' a bitch" to get his ass gone, I would have thought horrendous play would have lead to the same result. Then again Kirschke's been around 5 years now.

We're turning into the damn Bengals, part 2.

So is this the stimulus that brings Lee Mays back to the Steelers? :)

[stevew]

bite your tongue.

[Ksyrup]

The main reason I hate the Denver Donkeys is because of Mike Shanahan. I had never, ever liked that weasel-faced, beady-eyed twerp. Apparently someone died and made him king so he could fire the GM. Now he let perhaps the most popular player go (Elam) when I believe he was waiting around for them to make a good offer.

With Vick and Hall, as well as Petrino, gone, I may become a Falcons fan yet.

I completely missed Elam signing with the Falcons until I read it in MMQB. Damn, that sucks.

[JeeberD]

Fuck... (http://www.rototimes.com/player_notes/nfl)

[Cringer]

Nice to see the sig change. lol

[Cuckoo]

I'm with you Jeebs...

[Suburban Rhythm]

So is this the stimulus that brings Lee Mays back to the Steelers? :)

I am pretty sure that role of fast #5 WR who should be a good KR guy but is always hurt and has yet to make a play in Black & Gold is already locked up by Willie Reid.

[Kodos]

Fuck... (http://www.rototimes.com/player_notes/nfl)

Looks like my jerk magnet theory is holding well this offseason. :cool:

[MikeVic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3325273

Things I noted were that only a 15-yard face mask penalty exists now, there's no more "was the receiver forced out of bounds" rule, and the hair rule wasn't passed...

[Ksyrup]

• A direct snap from center that goes backward will now be treated as a fumble. Previously, it was ruled a false start.


I never did understand this one. If the snap starts the play, how can the rest of the team's lack of movement cause a false start?

[stevew]

The force out rule going away should be good. Although they should have considered changing it to 1 foot down if you're in contact with a defender. Now DB's will be able to drill people on the sidelines.

[Dunleavy]

well here is my first, well second, mock draft

1. Miami – Jake Long, OT, Michigan
-I don’t believe it will be Dorsey, McFadden, or Ryan so it comes down to the two Long’s, Gholston the wild card. Chris Long is a fine player but Jake Long at LT fills a more premier need. Plus I’m buying the rumors that the Fins are negotiating with Jake

2. St. Louis – Chris Long, DE, Virginia
-Could be Dorsey here but Chris Long is the safe blue collar pick to fit the new Rams

3. Atlanta – Glen Dorsey, DT, LSU
-Certainly Matt Ryan makes a lot of sense but DT is an equally big need for the Falcons. Plus Dorsey likely carries a higher grade then Ryan on their board. Another factor is this a much deeper QB draft class then a thin DT class

4. Oakland – Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio St.
-Really tough pick. I had changed my mind from Darren McFadden to Vernon Gholston and then changed back to McFadden, and now I’ve changed back to Gholston who flashed some serious speed in his own right and is rumored to be high on the Raiders draft board. When all is said and done I wouldn’t be surprised if Oakland took Sedrick Ellis

5. Kansas City – Sedrick Ellis, DT, USC
-The Chiefs really do need OL help and Branden Albert was in the mix all the way to the end but Sedrick Ellis offers the Chiefs better value at #5 overall and is going to be that force in the middle they looking for a while now

6. NY Jets – Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
-With McFadden and Ryan still on the board the Jets are sure to have calls to move up but I think they’ll drive too hard a bargain for a deal to happen. I don’t doubt the Jets have some interest in Ryan but I cant see them taking him over McFadden

7. New England – Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy
-With Matt Ryan still on the board the Patriots could use him to trade down, but which team is going to want to trade up? Chicago? Carolina? No. I don’t see either team moving up for Ryan (maybe Clady). So what to do with a hot potato, the Pats bite the bullet and take the CB they prefer, and need

8. Baltimore – Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
-I don’t see the Ravens moving up for Ryan but if he falls in their lap I don’t see them passing

9. Cincinnati – Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
-Wanted to project a trade with Ryan Clady being the target but decided against doing that. For the Bengal’s it came down Rivers, Merlin, and Harvey with none of the three standing out

10. New Orleans - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee St.
-Rivers in the mix again but CB is a bigger need, DRC likely rated higher

11. Buffalo – Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma
-Had DRC not gone 10th to the Saints he would have made this a difficult decision for the Bills, it was a hard enough choosing which WR to take as Kelly may be slipping a bit while Michigan State’s Devon Thomas is rising

12. Denver - Ryan Clady, OT, Boise St.
-Instant pick

13. Carolina – Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt
-OT for sure, maybe trade up for Clady

14. Chicago – Branden Albert, OG/OT, Virginia
Really tough pick, and this is my team (suppose to be easy). The Bears could trade up to get Clady but that isn’t their style. They would take Willams as plan B but he’s gone as well. I don’t see them taking Otah, Cherilus is a long shot. The real wild card here is Rashard Mendenhall, the Bears OC successfully recruited and surely will be making his case for the talented RB, I just don’t see them going RB round 1 as they seem locked in for an OT but have they drafted Albert as a LT or OG?

I ran out of gas so I’m stopping for now

[Raiders Army]

Fuck, I just got scared. The 2007 draft is on the NFL Network right now. With everything else going on, I thought I forgot about it. I thought it was next weekend but this shook my confidence.

Then they were talking about Daymeion Hughes and I knew they were talking about last year.

[stevew]

Why is Rogers-Cromrairtie such a big deal? He played division 1-AA and had a good senior bowl. And a great combine. How does that translate to a top 10 pick?

Is it the last name he shares with his cousin. How many of us have actually seen him play a friggin game?

[stevew]

dola-

I'm not trying to point fingers at the mockers in this thread, as he's highly(over) rated by everyone it seems.

[DeToxRox]

dola-

I'm not trying to point fingers at the mockers in this thread, as he's highly(over) rated by everyone it seems.

The usual. He's a freak, size and speed wise, at a position where those kind of athletes do not usually exist. Add in good work outs and combines, and he's become a freak.

[st.cronin]

He's actually not really that big. 6'1", 180 is I think about his size.

[st.cronin]

dola: 6'2", 175 according to this site

http://www.newerascouting.com/profiler/viewprofile.php?id=24

[Dunleavy]

i've read that he loves football and that's worth some browney points. Pats are said to like him. i dont think there's any question his physical tools, aka potential, will be a big part of why and when he is drafted

[Dunleavy]

TEAMS CIRCULATING NEW TRADE CHART
Posted by Mike Florio on April 15, 2008, 10:38 a.m.
A couple of weeks ago, we developed a revised trade chart for valuing draft picks. We’ve since caught wind of a new chart that has been developed by and among multiple teams, and that could be put in use as soon as this year.

The new chart can be seen right here.

In contrast to the current trade chart, the new chart has very different values for the picks in round one. At the top, the points are compressed. The first pick was worth 3,000; it’s now down to 2,000. However, the sixth pick is worth more under the new chart than it was under the prior version. Each remaining pick, from No. 7 to No. 32, is worth more as well, with the last pick in the round now worth 670, up from 590.

The only difference in round two is that the first pick in the round is worth 570 under the new chart. It previously had a value of 580. The values for all picks in rounds three through seven are unchanged.

The chart has been revised due to the dramatic increases in the contracts paid to the first few players selected in the draft. The financial investment required when exercising such a high pick necessarily has reduced the total value of these picks, necessitating a reduction in the total perceived trade value of the top selections.

The apparent reason for the 100-point gap between the bottom of round one and the top of round two is that the last player drafted in round one can be signed to a five-year deal. At the top of round two, the maximum duration is four years.

Under that theory, however, the difference between picks No. 16 and No. 17 should be more than 40 points, since the maximum contract length at the top half of round one is six years.

It remains to be seen whether the new chart becomes widely used by NFL teams. It’s clearly an improvement, however, over the outdated chart that was developed in the 1990s.



1st Rd 2nd Rd 3rd Rd 4th Rd 5th Rd 6th Rd 7th Rd
1 2,000 33 570 65 265 97 112 129 43 161 27 193 14.2
2 1,900 34 560 66 260 98 108 130 42 162 26.6 194 13.8
3 1,825 35 550 67 255 99 104 131 41 163 26.2 195 13.4
4 1,750 36 540 68 250 100 100 132 40 164 25.8 196 13
5 1,675 37 530 69 245 101 96 133 39.5 165 25.4 197 12.6
6 1,635 38 520 70 240 102 92 134 39 166 25 198 12.2
7 1,570 39 510 71 235 103 88 135 38.5 167 24.6 199 11.8
8 1,505 40 500 72 230 104 86 136 38 168 24.2 200 11.4
9 1,440 41 490 73 225 105 84 137 37.5 169 23.8 201 11
10 1,375 42 480 74 220 106 82 138 37 170 23.4 202 10.6
11 1,320 43 470 75 215 107 80 139 36.5 171 23 203 10.2
12 1,275 44 460 76 210 108 78 140 36 172 22.6 204 9.8
13 1,230 45 450 77 205 109 76 141 35.5 173 22.2 205 9.4
14 1,185 46 440 78 200 110 74 142 35 174 21.8 206 9
15 1,140 47 430 79 195 111 72 143 34.5 175 21.4 207 8.6
16 1,110 48 420 80 190 112 70 144 34 176 21 208 8.2
17 1,070 49 410 81 185 113 68 145 33.5 177 20.6 209 7.8
18 1,040 50 400 82 180 114 66 146 33 178 20.2 210 7.4
19 1,010 51 390 83 175 115 64 147 32.6 179 19.8 211 7
20 980 52 380 84 170 116 62 148 32.2 180 19.4 212 6.6
21 945 53 370 85 165 117 60 149 31.8 181 19 213 6.2
22 920 54 360 86 160 118 58 150 31.4 182 18.6 214 5.8
23 895 55 350 87 155 119 56 151 31 183 18.2 215 5.4
24 870 56 340 88 150 120 54 152 30.6 184 17.8 216 5
25 845 57 330 89 145 121 52 153 30.2 185 17.4 217 4.6
26 820 58 320 90 140 122 50 154 29.8 186 17 218 4.2
27 795 59 310 91 136 123 49 155 29.4 187 16.6 219 3.8
28 770 60 300 92 132 124 48 156 29 188 16.2 220 3.4
29 745 61 292 93 128 125 47 157 28.6 189 15.8 221 3
30 720 62 284 94 124 126 46 158 28.2 190 15.4 222 2.6
31 695 63 276 95 120 127 45 159 27.8 191 15 223 2.3
32 670 64 270 96 116 128 44 160 27.4 192 14.6 224 2


it looks weird at first b/c of the drop at the top but it rounds out nicely

[Arles]

There's another interesting one in ESPN the mag. It used the old 3,000 point start but uses a similar methodology.

[stevew]

The charts never make any sense. If there's a blue chipper QB, he's basically worth infinity points. I'd say the old one was pretty fine. Picks 17-32 are worth too much in this situation, simply cause the first 16 let you negotiate a 6 year deal.

Basically, that chart needs a lot of work still.

[Logan]

Teams should stop using any sort of chart that means that Picks 1 thru whatever of one year are worth the same as the same picks of another year, when obviously the players' corresponding talent levels are different. It makes absolutely no logical sense.

If it's my team, my staff is assigning point values to players, not picks. If I need DL help but the draft is deep at that position, I'm not giving up a 3rd round pick for the difference between a guy I value as an 87 and another guy who I think is an 85.

[Dunleavy]

the chart is just a guideline. adjust as you wish

[MikeVic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3349761

Nice CJ. Nice. He was one of my favourite WRs too (which made it hard considering he's a Bengal), but I hate stuff like this.

[MCK]

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10784451

Steve McNair to retire. Well that's 1 less quarterback we need to worry about. This is a rebuilding season so throw the young guys in there and see what they can do.

[Synovia]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3349761

Nice CJ. Nice. He was one of my favourite WRs too (which made it hard considering he's a Bengal), but I hate stuff like this.



With all the shit the Bengals have fed to the media about him, I don't blame him. He's not a "lockerroom cancer", hes goofy.

He plays hard, practices hard, and is a great football player. The bengals defense just continues to be atrocious, and yet they're trying to blame him for them not getting to the playoffs.

[ISiddiqui]

nevermind

[Cringer]

I think ISiddiqui tooted.

[stevew]

So, apparently there is a decent chance of a deal being made for Jared Allen. Supposedly the Vikings and Buccaneers are interested.

May be a chance for Herm Edwards to make another first round selection.