College Football Week 13: THE BORDER WAR!!!!!!!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Oh, yeah! It's on! No more 'what-if' scenarios! Beakers vs. Tigers. #2 vs. #4. Winner moves one step closer to the National Championship. Is it sad that I'm at work on Monday already wishing that Saturday was here? I can feel the hatred flowing through my veins.

Vegas spread: Pick 'em.

My prediction: Tigers by 10.

For those of you heading out to College Gameday, some sign ideas..........

"Mangino Ate My Other Sign"

"Roses are red, violets are blue, Kansas and feces are both #2."

"Thanksgiving left-overs at an all-time low; Mangino to blame."

"Pinkel thinking win, Mangino thinking Arby's".

"lacK of institUtional control" (K & U highlighted red and blue)

[Atocep]

Didn't they change the name a few years ago because the word War is offensive?

[Butter]

Yes, thank goodness there is finally a thread where we can discuss Missouri sports.

[MrBug708]

Missouri was cooler to talk about when they had Quinn Snyder

[JPhillips]

Is Mangino overweight or something?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Didn't they change the name a few years ago because the word War is offensive?

They changed it to 'Border Showdown' because the new KU AD from Connecticut thought that it was offensive to soldiers fighting the war in Iraq (despite most military soldiers disagreeing with that reasoning). Mizzou's AD was dumb enough to agree to it. Funny part is that even the media writers for KU and MU still call it the Border War in the newspaper. Fans also still call it the Border War. It's the 'Border Showdown' in name alone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yes, thank goodness there is finally a thread where we can discuss Missouri sports.

Yes, we obviously need more University of Cincinnati 'moral victory' threads.............

[MizzouRah]

Down with KU!!!

[Dr. Sak]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/college/img10468998.jpg

[Dr. Sak]

http://images.sportsbybrooks.com/3/d/3d51ee2cda14e545864955cde5795c0b_manginocupcakes.jpg

[Galaxy]

Missouri is like the Playstation 3. Kansas is like the Wii or 360. :)

[Dr. Sak]

Hey Missouri, we'll get an NHL Team first!

[Huckleberry]

Should be a great game. Definitely looking forward to it and the pick'em line is just about right.

Also looking forward to the North being favored in the championship game for the first time in a long time (1999?)

[Hammer755]

All I need is for Mizzou to beat Kansas then lose to Oklahoma, and have LSU or WVU lose.

Signed,
Buckeye Fan

[Dr. Sak]

You might want to hope for an Arizona State loss while you're at it.

[Vegas Vic]

All I need is for Mizzou to beat Kansas then lose to Oklahoma, and have LSU or WVU lose.

There's a decent chance that Oklahoma won't even make it to the B12 Championship game. Their two best offensive players QB Sam Bradford (concussion), who leads the nation in passing efficiency and RB Demarco Murray (dislocated kneecap on the onside kick) are out, and four of their top five DE's are out. They are either going to have to pull a redshirt or move a DT to DE.

[RendeR]

You might want to hope for an Arizona State loss while you're at it.


Might help but I don't think its necessary. You think an ASU 1 loss team would get the nod over a tOSU 1 loss team? This is all about money and Buckeyes bring in more than Sundevils.


I don't care who wins the border war, as long as the winner losses the conf title game =)

Oh and GO UCONN!

;)

[Huckleberry]

Might help but I don't think its necessary. You think an ASU 1 loss team would get the nod over a tOSU 1 loss team? This is all about money and Buckeyes bring in more than Sundevils.

The only BCS bowl that is not all about money is the championship game. Computers don't care and the coaches and Harris voters don't get a cut based on who goes.

[RendeR]

Ok fine, I'll say what I really meant then:


Buckeyes are more popular, with everyone that matters in the BCS, than the Sundevils.


happy now? couldnt just take your candy and go home happy? HAD to egg me on ? =)

[Scarecrow]

Did you hear about Mangino getting lost driving in KC?


He was spotted on the side of the road by a state trooper, who pulled over and asked him if he needed something. Mangino told him he was looking to get to 435. The trooper answered, "maybe if you cut out the sweets and ate a salad or two."

NOTE: This joke only works for people familiar with I-435 in KC.

[sterlingice]

They changed it to 'Border Showdown' because the new KU AD from Connecticut thought that it was offensive to soldiers fighting the war in Iraq (despite most military soldiers disagreeing with that reasoning). Mizzou's AD was dumb enough to agree to it. Funny part is that even the media writers for KU and MU still call it the Border War in the newspaper. Fans also still call it the Border War. It's the 'Border Showdown' in name alone.

Something those of us from Kansas and Missouri can both agree on- changing the name was stupid- it's still the Border War. (Then again, our AD is a money grubbing whore and world class twit but that's another story for another day...)

SI

[WSUCougar]

Is Mangino overweight or something?
You mean, like, relatively? Um, no...

http://www.cybertronical.com/allsites/starwars/main/aliens/jabba_the_hutt/jabba.jpg

[sterlingice]

Yes, thank goodness there is finally a thread where we can discuss Missouri sports.

To be fair, for those of us in Kansas, this may be our first and only time to be in the spotlight for football. We don't ever get to be the game of the week, never have and may never again. And, while I think a lot of the people in town (particularly students) think this could become a regular thing, I, like most of the others who have been here for a while, are just enjoying the moment :)

SI

[Young Drachma]

I thought this was about the Colorado State-Wyoming game. Also called The Border War, for the Bronze Boot trophy.

All that either team has left to salvage a disappointing year. More for Wyoming, given how well it started. But...par for the course in the past few years.

[k0ruptr]

Boise - Hawaii Friday night 9 est

[IMetTrentGreen]

Kansas: good offense good defense
Missouri: good offense terrible defense

I think Kansas wins both this game and the Big 12. If Mangingo weighed 250 instead of 350, every school in the country would want him. Guy is a great coach. Michigan should take him.

[BYU 14]

The only war that matters this week is "The Holy War" :p


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[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Kansas: good offense good defense
Missouri: good offense terrible defense

You're selling Mizzou's defense short. They may not be the best in the B12, but they're certainly not terrible. Also, MU's schedule has obviously been much tougher than KU's schedule, so it's nearly impossible to compare scoring and yardage states given the difference in teams that they've played. Both of them are ranked in the top 3 in the conference in team offense and defense. KU's scoring stats on both sides of the ball are padded quite a bit by the easy non-conference schedule that has been well documented.

On the offensive end, Mizzou is the only team in the nation to score 30+ points in every single game this year and usually puts up 40+ points. KU's defense isn't going to stop Mizzou's offense any more than the other teams that have tried. KU is still going to have to get at least 35 points to have a chance to win this game.

[Passacaglia]

Did Kansas and Missouri ever have a border war? This seems like a name that would be better suited for the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Did Kansas and Missouri ever have a border war? This seems like a name that would be better suited for the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.

The first unofficial battles of the Civil War were actually fought between Kansas and Missouri residents as early as 1854.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas

Also, the names 'Jayhawkers' and 'Tigers' actually originated from the Civil War units in those given states. Missouri had the 3rd most number of soldiers fighting in the Civil War behind only Tennessee and Virginia. Of course, Missouri soldiers fought on both sides. And perhaps you've heard of Quantrill..........

Most fans of MU and KU know the rivalry between the schools is rooted in the civil war. Many know nothing more than what is commonly said of an early road trip to Lawrence: “The notorious outlaw band of William Quantrill, accompanied by psychopathic killers such as Cole Younger and “Bloody Bill” Anderson, committed the worst atrocity of the Civil War with their unprovoked raid on Lawrence, Kansas in which they massacred the citizenry and burned the town to the ground.” Or something to that effect. Many do not understand the extent of devastation that had previously been wreaked on western Missouri by free-booters operating out of Kansas. Most do not understand the extent to which Missourians such as Quantrill’s followers has been forced into a war they did not want.

Prior to the Civil War, the average Missourian was a Christian, family-centered, land-owning farmer. While most were of Southern descent, they were not slave-owners. Only one in eight Missouri families held slaves. They were Unionists. At the State secession convention, even after several states had seceded from the Union, over 70% of Missourians had voted for Unionist delegates. To understand how Missouri was torn apart during the Civil War, one must understand developments in the decades prior to the war, and particularly the territorial disputes in neighboring Kansas.

The territorial era of Kansas was profoundly influenced by the sectional fight for national supremacy, the resulting Kansas-Nebraska Act, and the ensuing struggle between abolitionist and pro-slavery forces for victory in the statehood elections. Both sides demonstrated they would engage in nearly any means (legal, extra-legal, or illegal) to win the elections. After John Brown (of later Harpers Ferry infamy) brutally hacked to death a number of pro-slavery Kansas settlers in 1856, the struggle turned increasingly bloody and brutal. Ruffians on both sides engaged in theft, murder and various other forms of mayhem. The border ruffians on the pro-slavery side came to be known as jayhawkers, while those on the pro-slavery side were called bushwhackers. Abolitionist forces (aided by a well-funded and well-armed campaign of emigration from the northeast) eventually prevailed, and Kansas joined the United States in 1861. In looking back on the territorial period, neither side in the conflict could claim innocence in the lawless struggle. However, an early historian of that era (of Massachusetts stock and a professor at the University of Kansas at the time of his writing) observed, “…in comparison with the Missourians, whose sins were black enough, jayhawkers were the superior devils.”

In the early years of the Civil War, the “deviltry” turned into hell for many Missourians. After the election of Lincoln, the firing on Fort Sumter, and the outbreak of open hostilities between North and South, radical abolitionists and a variety of unprincipled opportunists from Kansas declared total war on western Missouri. Many Kansans who enlisted with the Union undoubtedly were motivated by noble virtues of freedom and equality. However, many who joined the armed camps springing up in Kansas had more dubious motives. One of their leaders was Jim Lane, an unprincipled demagogue who was driven much more by ambition than by abolition. When his career as a politician in Indiana began to falter, Lane emigrated to Kansas looking for opportunity. Lane admitted that “if Kansas had been a good hemp and tobacco state, I would have favored slavery.” However, after gauging the political winds, Lane instead chose to ride abolition and animosity against Missourians to new political heights, and proceeded to recruit military forces independent from the state government.

The promise of plunder helped to fill the ranks of the forces being raised by Lane and others. The hardships of life on the Kansas prairies had resulted in a steady stream of former settlers heading back east throughout the territorial period. In 1860 a great drought began. For more than a year little or no rain fell, and crops failed. An estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Kansas were rendered destitute and dependent on charity. Because of its older and more robust socio-economy, Missouri remained a land of relative riches. Many Kansans jumped at the chance to improve their economic status at the expense of the detested Missourians.

One of the first groups to take advantage was the Seventh Kansas Cavalry, also known as the Southern Kansas Jay-Hawkers, under the command of the notorious Charles Jennison. The term “jayhawker” was used in that era to describe outlaws who would rob and plunder the unwary traveler or settler. As the Civil War unfolded, the term Jayhawker became synonymous with Kansans who used the causes of anti-slavery and Unionism as cover for criminal and predatory activities. As an Illinois newspaper editor reported, “A Jayhawker is a Unionist who professes to rob, burn out, and murder only rebels in arms against the government…They are all lawless and indiscriminate in their inequities.”

With many able-bodied Missouri men away in either Confederate or Union arms, Jennison and his gang of Jayhawkers had free play among the women, children, and old men who remained across the border. The Jayhawkers had taken to heart the years of anti-Missouri propaganda. In the words of one Kansas abolitionist, “When I deal with men made in God’s image, I will never shoot them; but these pro-slavery Missourians are demons from the bottomless pit and may be shot with impunity.” A jayhawker orgy of theft, torture, and cold-blooded murder commenced. Jennison raided the prosperous trading centers of Westport, Kansas City, and Independence. Other groups of Jayhawkers under Jim Lane and James Montgomery plundered and burned a string of Missouri towns: Osceola (at that time one of the largest population centers in western Missouri), Pappinsville, and Morristown. In their predations, the jayhawkers made little effort to distinguish between Union and Secessionist among the Missouri residents.

By the spring of 1862, less than a year after the opening salvos of the Civil War had been fired at Fort Sumter, much of the wealth of western Missouri had been stripped off by the marauding Kansans. Millions of dollars in property were stolen or destroyed. Wagon trains of booty and vast herds of stolen livestock were taken into Lawrence and other bases of jayhawking operations. Hundreds of Missourians were dead. Sometimes the lucky ones were the men that were shot, hung, or burned. Thousands of wives and children were now without husband and father, without home, and completely dispossessed. One illustration of the human suffering comes from a Jayhawker sergeant’s report: “…we saw a woman approaching from down the dreary, uninhabited roadway. She was on foot and was carrying a baby hugged to her breast, with four little children also walking…All were in their nightclothes and all wet to the skin; children crying from cold and hunger. The babe was dead…the mother died from exposure within 36 hours. The four children were sent to four different homes.”

The criminal nature and motivation of the Jayhawkers was amply documented in contemporary reports and correspondence. During the summer of 1861, the surgeon in Montgomery’s Jayhawker command described most in his regiments as “villains who joined the force for protection in their plundering operations.” Lieutenant Colonel Daniel R. Anthony, a senior officer in Jennison‘s Southern Kansas Jay-Hawkers, wrote his brother-in-law back east, “Don’t you want a captaincy or a majorship in the army - or don’t you want to come out here and speculate in cattle - horses and mules - there is a good chance to buy cheap - and stock a farm here at little expense - I would advise you to come out and try it.”

At the outbreak of the war, most Missourians had remained Unionist. Fewer than 5,000 had responded to the initial call of Missouri secessionists for 50,000 Missourians to join the Confederate armies. However, with the Jayhawkers operating under the flag of the Union, many Missourians came to view the war as nothing more than a federally sanctioned invasion of hearth and home. At the outset of his jayhawking expedition into Missouri, perhaps as justification for the indiscriminate looting that was to ensue, Jennison had proclaimed, “…neutrality is ended. If you are patriots you must fight (for the Union), if you are traitors you must be punished.” Forced to choose, Missourians now flocked to the flag of the Confederacy.

Too late, high-ranking Union leaders realized the damage that the Jayhawkers had wrought. General Henry Halleck, Commander of the Department of the West, wrote of the Jayhawkers: “They are no better than a band of robbers; they cross the line, rob, steal, plunder, and burn whatever they can lay their hands upon. They disgrace the name and uniform of American soldiers. The course pursued by those under Lane and Jennison, has turned against us many thousands who were formerly Union men.”

Some in the federal command sought to curtail the criminal actions of the jayhawkers, but the genie was already out of the bottle. Because the conventional Confederate forces in the region were forced to stay south of the Missouri-Arkansas border after their defeat at the battle of Pea Ridge, the young men and boys of Missouri who wished to protect their homes and oppose the jayhawkers had only one choice, to join the irregular Confederate forces. Some joined the Missouri Partisan Rangers to resist the jayhawkers and oppose the Union army of occupation. Other Missourians conducted their own raids into Kansas and against pro-Union Missourians. Some sought the return of stolen goods, some sought revenge for murdered friends and family, others were simply the Missouri version of the low-life jayhawkers (called bushwhackers). The violence continued to spiral downward. Unable or unwilling to differentiate between the legitimate activities of Missouri Partisan Rangers and the bushwhackers, Union forces adopted severe policies against all in arms against the Union. One such policy was execution of captured Missouri guerillas. This only steepened the descent into the horrors of total war. An inspector general of the Union army, tasked with reporting on the impact of the no-prisoners policy in Missouri, wrote “The existing practice enables evil-disposed soldiers to rob and murder loyal and inoffensive citizens under the cover that they were acting as bushwhackers.” In retaliation, Union soldiers captured by Missouri Partisan Rangers and guerillas, formerly paroled, were now also summarily executed.

Another Union policy unleashed in western Missouri was the imprisonment of female relatives of known and suspected Missouri guerillas. In the summer of 1863, the collapse of a Union jail for women in Kansas City killed five of these young women, and crippled several more for life. Many believed the collapse was intentional (it is notable that no soldiers or guards were injured or killed in the event.)

Within a week of the jail collapse, a force of several hundred revenge-minded Missourians was on its way to Lawrence, Kansas and the history books. Lawrence was the home of the detested Senator Jim Lane, was a center of jayhawking operations, and was a veritable warehouse of goods that had been stolen from Missouri. The previously quoted KU professor wrote in 1906 that the gang of redlegs (a variant of the jayhawkers) based in Lawrence “contained men of the most desperate and hardened character, and a full recital of their deeds would sound like the biography of devils. Either the people of Lawrence could not drive out the freebooters, or they thought it mattered little what might happen to Missouri disloyalists.”

Aristotle observed, "Men regard it as their right to return evil for evil – and, if they cannot, feel they have lost their liberty." Shakespeare wrote, “If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?” But perhaps no-one stated the motivation of Quantrill more eloquently than a subordinate who described his commander as, “favoring the old dispensation to the new, that is, the gospel of Moses to that of Jesus Christ.” Quantrill decided that it would an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

The guerillas were hardened by the nature of the attack on their homes and families, and by the “extreme measures” used against them by Union forces. Bill Anderson, soon to be known as “Bloody Bill”, lost a sister in the jail collapse. Cole Younger, whose father had previously been murdered by jayhawkers, lost two female cousins in the jail collapse. In the words of a guerilla biographer,

“Almost from the first a large majority of Quantrell's original command had over them the shadow of some terrible crime. This one recalled a father murdered, this one a brother waylaid and shot, this one a house pillaged and burnt, this one a relative assassinated, this one a grievous insult while at peace at home, this one a robbery of all his earthly possessions, this one the force which compelled him to witness the brutal treatment of a mother or sister, this one was driven away from his own life a thief in the night, this one was threatened with death for opinion's sake, this one was proscribed at the instance of some designing neighbor, this one was arrested wantonly and forced to do the degrading work of a menial; while all had more or less of wrath laid up against the day when they were to meet face to face and hand to hand those whom they had good cause to regard as the living embodiment of unnumbered wrongs.”

Yes, the revenge of the guerillas riding under Quantrill would be severe.

Prior to the jayhawking expeditions of Lane and Jennison in 1861-1862, Governor Robinson of Kansas had tried to stop Lane and his ilk, stating there was little for Kansans to fear from secessionist forces in Missouri, but warning “…what we do have to fear…is that Lane’s brigade will get up a war by going over the line, committing depredations, and then returning into our State.” That warning went unheeded, and on August 21, 1863, the people of Lawrence would pay the price. Within a week of the collapse of the Kansas City jail, William Quantrill and the Missouri guerilla fighters under his command conducted their infamous raid on Lawrence, Kansas. Quantrill failed in the primary objective of the Lawrence raid, the capture of Senator Jim Lane. However, Quantrill and his men were not be denied their revenge. Quantrill’s men gunned down and killed approximately 150 male residents of Lawrence (from a total population of slightly over 2,000). Approximately one-quarter of the buildings in Lawrence were put to the torch.

In response came one of the final escalations of the conflict. Union General Thomas Ewing had already been frustrated by the inability of his forces to defeat the Partisan Rangers operating out of western Missouri, and in the wake of the Lawrence raid he was under intense political pressure to act. Jayhawker leader Jim Lane was calling for the men of Kansas to assemble on the border for the purpose of marching into Missouri and carrying out a campaign of “devastation and extermination.” Four days after the Lawrence raid, General Ewing issued General Order No. 11, which called for the immediate and forced depopulation of several counties along Missouri’s western border. Most of the soldiers that enforced the order were Kansans who welcomed such a splendid opportunity to once again punish and prey upon the Missourians. A high ranking official in Missouri’s Union state government described how under the Order men “were shot down in the very act of obeying the order, and their wagons and effects seized by their murderers.”

Slavery was an evil that needed to be ended; unfortunately, the war that ultimately ended slavery in the United States was used as cover for criminals such as the Jayhawkers to achieve their own evil ends. The war in Missouri was particularly brutal. In a post-war speech, Union Brigadier General John B.Sanborn stated “There exists in the breasts of the people of educated and Christian communities wild and ferocious passions…(which when loosed in the guerilla war) become more cruel and destructive than any that live in the breasts of savage and barbarous nations.”

Those passions, and the cruel and destructive behavior, occurred in people on both sides of the conflict. One side in the conflict took particular pride in it. Sanctimonious Kansans at the University of Kansas decided in 1890 to call their new football team the Jayhawkers, and later made the Jayhawk the official mascot of the KU athletic teams. At that time, many Missourians who had lost family, friends, and home in the jayhawking reign of terror during the Civil War were still alive. Students of the University of Missouri in 1891 were removed from that terror by only a single generation. Imagine their reaction when “Go Jayhawkers” was chanted at the inaugural MU-KU football game played that year. If the animosity between Kansans and Missourians had previously started to subside, it was certainly rekindled and stoked at that moment. The rivalry between Missourians and Kansans would live on, with the battles to be fought on the gridiron and hardwood. It would come to be known as The Border War.

[Young Drachma]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3119690

In an attempt to avoid a potential headache at the end of the regular season, the commissioners of the six BCS football conferences have voted to expand the pool of BCS at-large candidates from 14 to 18.

The new rule goes into effect only if there aren't enough teams among the top 14 of the final BCS standings to fill 10 slots in the BCS National Championship Game, Orange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and Rose Bowl.

The new rule was approved by commissioners for the 2007 season and will be announced by the BCS on Tuesday.

"The commissioners voted that in a case where there wasn't enough teams in the at-large pool, they would expand it by four," said Charles Bloom, associate commissioner of the SEC and BCS media coordinator. "If there were enough teams to fill the BCS from the pool of 14, it wouldn't be expanded."

What kind of tripe is this? Making up new rules as they go along?

[albionmoonlight]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3119690



What kind of tripe is this? Making up new rules as they go along?

To their credit, this seems like it will only come into play if the current rules make it impossible to fill out the BCS. This seems like they decided to expand the eligible teams instead of waiving the rule that each conference cannot send more than two teams. They should have, of course, come up with the contingeny plan at the beginning of the season, but, as messed up decisions by the people who run college football go, this one isn't totally horrible.

[st.cronin]

Yeah, it was either this, or potentially cancel one of the bowl games.

[Young Drachma]

I read it wrong, as I viewed it as part of a bigger power grab. Not that it's any better since non-BCS schools don't get helped by this, it's just a way to ensure more of the "power conferences" get their piece of pie.

Meh.

[IMetTrentGreen]

You're selling Mizzou's defense short

No, I'm not.

[Crapshoot]

For those of us neutrals, its good to know that Kansas is significantly easier to root for.

[Blade6119]

I agree your not, but you are over-selling the kansas defense

[Cuckoo]

I think Kansas is both better than many people think and also worse than many people think, all at the same time. My guess is Mizzou takes this one, though as an OU fan, I'd rather see them play Kansas if the Sooners can find some way to get by OSU this week or Texas loses to A&M.

[Passacaglia]

The first unofficial battles of the Civil War were actually fought between Kansas and Missouri residents as early as 1854.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas

Also, the names 'Jayhawkers' and 'Tigers' actually originated from the Civil War units in those given states. Missouri had the 3rd most number of soldiers fighting in the Civil War behind only Tennessee and Virginia. Of course, Missouri soldiers fought on both sides. And perhaps you've heard of Quantrill..........

Sounds like quite a conflict, but I don't know why it would be called a border war.

[IMetTrentGreen]

I agree your not, but you are over-selling the kansas defense

No, I'm not. Missouri may win, especially since Reesing is hurt, but Kansas is the better all around team.

Chase Daniel had better be ready to bring it.

[Young Drachma]

Did Kansas and Missouri ever have a border war? This seems like a name that would be better suited for the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry.

Seems pretty straightforward. Both are the flagship university of their state and the states border each other.

If that's not a border war, what is?

[Pumpy Tudors]

If that's not a border war, what is?
Mark Mangino vs. the Taco Bell menu?

[Passacaglia]

Seems pretty straightforward. Both are the flagship university of their state and the states border each other.

If that's not a border war, what is?

I guess this, since it involved a border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War

[Scarecrow]

Here's (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/12/we-burned-your-town-to-the-ground/) why it's the Border War.

[cartman]

Mark Mangino vs. the Taco Bell menu?

That's like all of the branches of the US Military versus 8 kindergarteners armed with ping-pong ball burp guns.

[johnnyshaka]

KU - Where the "K" stands for "K"wality!!!

[MizzouRah]

No, I'm not. Missouri may win, especially since Reesing is hurt, but Kansas is the better all around team.

Chase Daniel had better be ready to bring it.

Says who, you? :rolleyes:

Chase Daniel will bring it, but don't start giving out excuses because Reesing is hurt. We are without one of our best defenders, Pig Brown.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mark Mangino vs. the Taco Bell menu?

Let's be honest here. Those KU players sure do love those Chalupas.........

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1999/nov/18/ku_player_suspended_after/

KU PLAYER SUSPENDED AFTER TACO BELL INCIDENT
Donna Bergmann, Special to the Journal-World

November 18, 1999

An 11-game starter on this year's KU football team faces charges related to an early-morning incident at a Lawrence fast-food restaurant.

Drop the chalupa?

An angry Kansas University football player got stuck Wednesday in the drive-through window at Taco Bell after he tried to crawl through it to get to food servers who forgot the chalupa, a taco-like product, in his take-out order.

Senior defensive end Dion Rayford, who is 6-foot-3 and weighs 260 pounds, was stuck in the 14-by-46-inch opening when police arrived, Lawrence Police Sgt. George Wheeler said.

Taco Bell employees gave Rayford, 24, the wrong order about 2 a.m. He left his car and tried to crawl through the window at the restaurant, 1408 W. 23rd.

Tiffany Holly-Campbell, Taco Bell night manager, and three employees retreated and "locked themselves in the office," said Taco Bell manager Tito Lopez.

Police arrested Rayford, and he was booked into the Douglas County Jail at 3:35 a.m. Formal charges of disorderly conduct, open container of alcohol and misdemeanor damage to property (less than $500) were read by Douglas County District Judge Paula Martin at Rayford's first appearance at 3:30 p.m. Wednesday.

Martin entered a "not guilty" plea on behalf of Rayford because he was not represented by counsel. Rayford said he would hire his own attorney, but he wasn't sure who would represent him.

Martin released Rayford on his own recognizance after the court appearance, adding conditions suggested by Douglas County Assistant Dist. Atty. Mark Knight. Those conditions were that he not return to Taco Bell or contact any witnesses to the incident.

Martin cited Rayford's "lack of priors" and his "ties to the community," in releasing Rayford.

Rayford's next court appearance, at which Martin will set a trial date, is scheduled for 1:30 p.m. Dec. 2.

Tuesday night, KU football coach Terry Allen announced that Rayford, a starter in all 11 Jayhawk football games this year, was suspended from Saturday's season finale against Iowa State.

"I'm disappointed for the young man, and frustrated as a coach to be put in the position to suspend someone from the final game of their career," Allen said. "But we can't tolerate that type of behavior in our program."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No, I'm not. Missouri may win, especially since Reesing is hurt, but Kansas is the better all around team.

Chase Daniel had better be ready to bring it.

Here comes the excuses. :rolleyes:

[Pumpy Tudors]

Let's be honest here. Those KU players sure do love those Chalupas.........

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1999/nov/18/ku_player_suspended_after/
Ha, I'd forgotten about that. Nice catch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like quite a conflict, but I don't know why it would be called a border war.

I have to admit I found this comment from KU's CB to be funny after your post from yesterday. Evidently you aren't the only one that doesn't understand why a game is a rivalry. :)

The second-ranked Jayhawks and third-ranked (AP poll) Tigers will meet for the first time with national title implications for both, a fact that figures to amplify the intensity inherent in the rivalry with roots in the Civil War era.

"Ohio State-Michigan, I don't even know why they're rivals," Talib said, adding, "There's a reason why (we're) rivals."

[Passacaglia]

I have to admit I found this comment from KU's CB to be funny after your post from yesterday. Evidently you aren't the only one that doesn't understand why a game is a rivalry. :)

I never said I didn't understand why a game is a rivalry. I just questioned the name that the rivalry was given.

[Butter]

"Oooh, look at us, we've played one important game in 100 years and now our rivalry is the greatest of all time!"

Uh, no.

[MizzouRah]

"Oooh, look at us, we've played one important game in 100 years and now our rivalry is the greatest of all time!"

Uh, no.

Don't cry.

[Huckleberry]

"Oooh, look at us, we've played one important game in 100 years and now our rivalry is the greatest of all time!"

Uh, no.

Why do people give a shit if their rivalry is the greatest?

Kansas/Missouri is a great, bitter, heated rivalry. And now the football game means a great deal. It's a huge thing in the local area.

Texas/OU is a great rivalry. Michigan/Ohio St. is a great rivalry. Who cares who says which is better?

My only concern is making sure people understand that Texas/OU is a bigger rivalry than Texas/Texas A&M. The Aggies seem to be bothered by that one.

:D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

"Oooh, look at us, we've played one important game in 100 years and now our rivalry is the greatest of all time!"

Uh, no.

Dear jealous fans,

We're playing for a NCAA title spot and you're holding on to the past because that's all you've got.

Sincerely,

KU and MU

[Huckleberry]

Dear jealous fans,

We're playing for a NCAA title spot and you're holding on to the past because that's all you've got.

Sincerely,

KU and MU

Nevermind, then.

Carry on with the Kansas/Mizzou bashing.

Sheesh, you can always tell when someone's not used to being important.

[Passacaglia]

Why do people give a shit if their rivalry is the greatest?

Kansas/Missouri is a great, bitter, heated rivalry. And now the football game means a great deal. It's a huge thing in the local area.

Texas/OU is a great rivalry. Michigan/Ohio St. is a great rivalry. Who cares who says which is better?

My only concern is making sure people understand that Texas/OU is a bigger rivalry than Texas/Texas A&M. The Aggies seem to be bothered by that one.

:D

I agree. This is just something for talk radio to spew about for a while, and America, having nothing better to do, joins the fray.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sheesh, you can always tell when someone's not used to being important.

As opposed to KU fans, who consider themselves God's gift to the college sports scene and know they're more important than anyone else.

[Passacaglia]

Dear jealous fans,

We're playing for a NCAA title spot and you're holding on to the past because that's all you've got.

Sincerely,

KU and MU

I thought you guys were playing for a spot in the Big 12 Championship Game?

Those are eggs, not chickens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I thought you guys were playing for a spot in the Big 12 Championship Game?

Those are eggs, not chickens.

OU and Texas are both looking up the rankings last I checked. As long as OU is without their starting running back (and possibly their starting QB) and Colt McCoy is the QB of Texas, I feel pretty good that the North winner has a good chance at winning the B12 championship.

Interesing side note: I'm guessing that Mack Brown is kicking himself right now for letting Chase Daniel and Todd Reesing out of the state of Texas while recruiting Perilloux (sp?) instead (who later went to LSU).

[Passacaglia]

OU and Texas are both looking up the rankings last I checked. As long as OU is without their starting running back (and possibly their starting QB) and Colt McCoy is the QB of Texas, I feel pretty good that the North winner has a good chance at winning the B12 championship.

Interesing side note: I'm guessing that Mack Brown is kicking himself right now for letting Chase Daniel and Todd Reesing out of the state of Texas while recruiting Perilloux (sp?) instead (who later went to LSU).

There's a difference between "having a good chance at winning" and completely overlooking. It'll be fun to watch, either way. Especially considering it's either watch the game, or hang out with the in-laws!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There's a difference between "having a good chance at winning" and completely overlooking.

As a fan, I can overlook anything. I don't have to focus on winning the game (thankfully). :)

[Passacaglia]

As a fan, I can overlook anything. I don't have to focus on winning the game (thankfully). :)

Cool -- congratulations on winning the national title for the next 10 years!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Cool -- congratulations on winning the national title for the next 10 years!

*****basks in the glory of it all*****

[Pumpy Tudors]

You guys just wait until the Sun Belt is the premier football conference. You won't be able to shut me up.

[Dr. Sak]

Nevermind, then.

Carry on with the Kansas/Mizzou bashing.

Sheesh, you can always tell when someone's not used to being important.

Exactly. What is the old addage...act like you've been there before?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exactly. What is the old addage...act like you've been there before?

That applies to players, but doesn't apply to fans. Fans are under no obligation to 'act the right way'. Not only that, but MU hasn't been in this position since 1960. That was the year that we would have played for the championship had KU not cheated and played an ineligible player against MU. KU won the game, but later had to forfeit it. Unfortunately, the damage was already done and MU missed its chance at a championship.

The idea that fans have to somehow curtail their comments is silly. They aren't going to post any of this banter on the locker room chalkboard.

[Dr. Sak]

That applies to players, but doesn't apply to fans.

If you want to act like a jackass then go right ahead.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If you want to act like a jackass then go right ahead.

That wasn't what I said. Fans don't have to conform to the unwritten rule where you are modest about your chances in a game no matter what the strength of your opponent when you actually believe that you'll win the game. Fans can say whatever they want or overlook any opponent without worrying that their comments will be on a bulletin board in the opponent's locker room.

I personally think we'll expose Kansas quite easily. They haven't beat a team with more than 6 wins thus far. I don't see that changing on Saturday.

[Scarecrow]

As opposed to KU fans, who consider themselves God's gift to the college sports scene and know they're more important than anyone else.


QFT!

[albionmoonlight]

Since there are a lot of Big 12 fans in this thread, maybe you can tell me what a couple of terms mean:

"Boomer Sooner" and "Rock Chalk Jayhawk."

I know that Oklahoma is the Sooners, and that Kansas is the Jayhawk. But I can't tell why booming and rock chalking help the team--or even what the terms mean.

[cartman]

Missouri is like the Playstation 3. Kansas is like the Wii or 360. :)

QFT!!!! FTW!!!!

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

QFT!!!! FTW!!!!

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!!

Mmmmmmmm.........BBQ.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Since there are a lot of Big 12 fans in this thread, maybe you can tell me what a couple of terms mean:

"Boomer Sooner" and "Rock Chalk Jayhawk."

I know that Oklahoma is the Sooners, and that Kansas is the Jayhawk. But I can't tell why booming and rock chalking help the team--or even what the terms mean.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk origin.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Chalk,_Jayhawk

Boomer Sooner origin.......

http://www.soonersports.com/trads/what-is-a-sooner.html

[duckman]

Dear jealous fans,

We're playing for a spot to get our asses handed to us by either Texas or Oklahoma in the Big XII title game.

Sincerely,

KU and MU

Fixed that for you.

[IMetTrentGreen]

Dude, Kansas would beat both our asses.

[CU Tiger]

2006 Rutgers = 2007 Kansas.
Relevent for the 1st (and likely last) time ever.
And they are making the most of it...

Love to say I dont understand, but unfortuantely I do.
It is the new cool thing to be a punk fan.
I see it more every year.

[sterlingice]

Let's be honest here. Those KU players sure do love those Chalupas.........

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1999/nov/18/ku_player_suspended_after/

Poor (stupid) Dion Rayford. There was talk of him being a second day draft pick (hey, we don't get many of those) until this.

SI

[sterlingice]

Exactly. What is the old addage...act like you've been there before?

2006 Rutgers = 2007 Kansas.
Relevent for the 1st (and likely last) time ever.
And they are making the most of it...

Love to say I dont understand, but unfortuantely I do.
It is the new cool thing to be a punk fan.
I see it more every year.

I agree 100% towards the "we are relevant for the first and likely last time ever". So I think we are making the most of it- we can't act like we've been here before and I kindof dbout it will happen again. However, a lot of us are still in a daze about it, completely stunned. Again, it's a dream I'd just like never to be woken up from.

That said, I would just ask where have we (KU fans) been punk fans? Sure, there are always going to be punk fans for every school. But where, particularly on this board, have we been anything but, well, pleasantly stunned by this season and just trying to enjoy the moment? I don't recall any of us rubbing it in other's faces or anything like that unless I'm mistaken.

SI

[sterlingice]

I thought you guys were playing for a spot in the Big 12 Championship Game?

Those are eggs, not chickens.

Amen.

SI

[Dr. Sak]

SI my comment was not directed at you in any way.

[Crim]

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Rock Chalk, Jayhawk" (a.k.a. the "Rock Chalk" chant) is a chant used at all University of Kansas Jayhawks sporting events and is well known throughout the nation by sports fans, particularly those who have attended a basketball game at Allen Fieldhouse and heard it loudly chanted. (Listen to the chant.)

The story of its origin most often told is that it was written by a Kansas chemistry professor, E.H.S. Bailey, and the University Science Club in 1886.

Its lyrics are a refrain of "Rock chalk... Jay-Hawk... KU," repeated twice slowly, and then three times quickly. It is usually preceded by the Kansas Alma Mater "Crimson and the Blue", and followed by the fight song, "I'm A Jayhawk".
It's also sung at the end of basketball games in Allen Fieldhouse and football games at Memorial Stadium if KU is winning by a significant amount and the other team has no hope of a comeback.

I can only gather that this is an extremely new phenomenon...?

[WVUFAN]

Question: of Missou and Kansas, which one matches up worst against Oklahoma? Missou already lost to the Sooners, right?

That's the one who should win. Go Missou!!

[sterlingice]

I'm guessing Mizzou would actually have a better shot since they faced OU already and have seen them. Also, they (rightfully) think they could have won that game if not for turnovers so there's no confidence gap.

SI

[sterlingice]

SI my comment was not directed at you in any way.

No, I get that. Sorry, I didn't mean to direct my comments at you either. But I don't quite get some of the comments about our fans as I think, for the most part, we've been nothing except stunned and we really haven't been here before :)

Of course, there will be some clashing with Mizzou fans ("hating each other since before the Civil War!") as that happens every year, regardless of how good the teams are. That said, I wasn't raised here so I definitely don't have the hate that a lot of fans have :p

SI

[Cuckoo]

Also, they (rightfully) think they could have won that game if not for turnovers so there's no confidence gap.

I heard Chase Daniel say this as well, and I don't get it. Oklahoma was leading by 17 late in the 4th until Mizzou got a garbage TD to make it look closer. And OU had a couple of turnovers that led directly to MU scores if I remember correctly.

Now I'm not saying a rematch would be a lock for Oklahoma (and I've already said I'd rather see them play Kansas), but I think it'd be a better argument to say that Missouri lost the game because they didn't have a running game without Temple.

[sterlingice]

Well, in the first game, my impression was that Mizzou was down early, came back and was up going into the 4th quarter when they decided ball protection wasn't quite a crucial game component. I think most teams win when their opponent has 4 turnovers and you can't expect a good team to do that twice.

SI

[Cuckoo]

I think most teams win when their opponent has 4 turnovers and you can't expect a good team to do that twice.

SI

No doubt. I just find it interesting how many different ways one can spin a game. For instance, you could just as easily say that OU was down by a point going into the 4th because of missed extra points and then dominated down the stretch with pressuring defense and clutch offense while Mizzou caved and exposed their weaknesses when it mattered most. :D

[MizzouRah]

Mizzou let OU run down and score after the half, then Macklin fumbled and OU scored again.. pretty much killed the game.

[Eaglesfan27]

USC is playing very well tonight. Up 37-17 over ASU midway through the 3rd quarter as Booty just threw his 3rd TD of the night.

[Atocep]

Some excellent tackling by Arizona State there...

[JHandley]

Rudi Carpenter is going to snap like a rubber band in the NFL.

[tarcone]

I am a nuetral observer in St Louis area.
Missouri--High flying offense, great QB. Cannot tackle. Had an easy schedule. Toughest game they got spanked by OU.

Kansas-- High flying offense. Great QB. Schedule was pure cake. Not one tough opponent all season long. They even avoided OU, Texas and Texas Tech.

I give the nod to Kansas though, as Pinkel is a coach that tends to get outcoached. That will be the deciding factor.

[larrymcg421]

Great game on right now. Mississippi led 14-0 heading into the 4th quarter, but Mississippi State scored with 8:25 left to make it 14-7. Then with 2:38 remaining they return a punt 73 yards for a game tying TD. It is now 14-14 with 2:25 left.

[MJ4H]

Arkansas leading #1 LSU 7-6 in the 2nd quarter.

[larrymcg421]

Mississippi State kicks a 48 yard FG for the 17-14 lead with 18 seconds left.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Middle 2nd quarter - Arkansas leads LSU 7-6
Middle of the 3rd quarter - Delaware leads DSU 37-0 and I'm LMAO.
Late 4th - Colorado rallies to lead Nebraska 58-35 with a 34-0 edge in the 2nd half

[JonInMiddleGA]

Make that 44-0 Delaware late in the 3rd quarter.
523 yards total offense for the Blue Hens, 102 for DSU.
RB Omar Cuff has 288 yards & 4 TD's on 38 carries, giving him 33 TD's for the yr.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Talk about an implosive first half ... LSU QB Flynn is 7/21 for 50 yds

[MJ4H]

Those are Casey Dick-like numbers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Backup RB fumbles & gives Delaware State a score, now 44-7.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Texas A&M leads #13 Texas 10-0 right at the end of the 1st quarter.

Colorado ends up 65-51 over Nebraska in a wild one. Buffs score 34 straight in the 2nd half to overcome a 35-24 Nebraska lead at the half, and then they combine for 30 more points in the final 4:16. 1128 yards combined total offense (610 for Nebraska).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Delaware finishes the deal, 44-7 winners over DSU.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

McFadden goes 73 yards for another score, great downfield block by WR! Casey Dick !

[sterlingice]

Texas A&M leads #13 Texas 10-0 right at the end of the 1st quarter.

Colorado ends up 65-51 over Nebraska in a wild one. Buffs score 34 straight in the 2nd half to overcome a 35-24 Nebraska lead at the half, and then they combine for 30 more points in the final 4:16. 1128 yards combined total offense (610 for Nebraska).

What is up with Nebraska and the second half of games this year? Usually when a team is beaten down, they just roll over and die for a couple of games. Instead, the Huskers showed up big for the first half for almost all of their games before going away. Doesn't really make much sense to me.

SI

[Atocep]

Bad pass interference call on a 2 point conversion sets up LSU to tie the game at 14.

[Atocep]

I'm assuming Dorsey is hurt? He's getting blown off the ball on almost every play.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And senior backup RB Peyton Hillis goes for a career long 65 yds to give Arkansas the lead again 21-14.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm assuming Dorsey is hurt? He's getting blown off the ball on almost every play.

Yeah, stiff back I believe they said.

[MJ4H]

And senior backup RB Peyton Hillis goes for a career long 65 yds to give Arkansas the lead again 21-14.

He's the starting fullback.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He's the starting fullback.

My bad, I guess his weight (238) should have tipped me off, but with less than 60 carries in the past two seasons, he seemed like a backup at first glance.

[MJ4H]

He gets a lot more work catching than rushing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Whew. Ineligible receiver gets an LSU TD bomb called back. Still 21-21 getting late in the 4th quarter.

[sterlingice]

I guess you really do miss a lot, watching it online as all it says there is "Penalized for 5 years" ;)

SI

[Young Drachma]

Man 'o Man, nice reverse.

[Young Drachma]

Man, McFadden is the real deal. Nice TD pass, 27-21 Arkansas.

[MJ4H]

im scared. hold me

[JonInMiddleGA]

LSU gets 20+ yards on a tipped pass, caught by a guy who was sooooo not the intended receiver. Now 3rd & goal from the 6 with 1:10 left to play.

[MJ4H]

why is nobody holding me

[MJ4H]

hahah im going to kill myself you guys just watch

[JonInMiddleGA]

LOL, a ninja timeout costs LSU a TD run by Flynn.

[MJ4H]

life is painful

[Celeval]

Nicely done.

I'm rooting for Arkansas, but I hate those last-second timeouts. It's worse on field goals, but if LSU hadn't scored now, that'd be the only thing talked about for weeks.

[Jas_lov]

Arkansas at midfield. Will not running down the clock cost LSU the game?

[larrymcg421]

The ninja timeout on a play like that is better than on field goals, because at least you get some information out of it and might take the offense out of their best play for that situation. I still don't like it in practice and hope some coach gets screwed by it, but it makes better strategical sense.

[MJ4H]

mods how do i put everyone on FOFC on my ignore list please

[sterlingice]

Is the Arkansas QB really that bad that they don't go to the air and basically burn through all that time at the end of regulation?

SI

[WVUFAN]

What network is the LSU/Arkansas game on?

[miami_fan]

What network is the LSU/Arkansas game on?

CBS

[Buccaneer]

Is the Arkansas QB really that bad that they don't go to the air and basically burn through all that time at the end of regulation?

SI

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I could not believe that they would have a QB as bad as Dick starting for a major SEC team. Despite how good McFadden might be, you can't root for a team with a QB that bad.

[Jas_lov]

Is the Arkansas QB really that bad that they don't go to the air and basically burn through all that time at the end of regulation?

SI

Yeah, what the hell were they doing at midfield with plenty of time left?

[Eaglesfan27]

Sheesh. Even Dick can hit a guy when he is left that wide open.

[Celeval]

Nice first down pickup... but the biggest play of your season, and McFadden is standing in the backfield looking for someone to block. Wow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tied at 42, heading to OT #3.

[Logan]

I'm really glad I woke up from a nap in time for these OTs.

[sterlingice]

Anyone else getting the impression that LSU is only bothering to play about half the game? It seems like they only care some of the time and that they're a lot more talented than Arkansas?

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

How do you not have McFadden on the field on a 2 pt try?
Even though it worked, I just think that's one of the most bizarre personnel decisions I've ever seen.

[sterlingice]

Wow

SI

[Young Drachma]

Thank goodness that whole deal is over. So sick of hearing about LSU. 50-48 in the 3rd OT.

[Eaglesfan27]

Wonderful. Now, we'll get to hear about how the Michigan job distracted Les Miles and the team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust

And it couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch.

[miami_fan]

Thank goodness that whole deal is over. So sick of hearing about LSU. 50-48 in the 3rd OT.

Please go after the coach and not the kids. He is a man!

[Celeval]

Wonderful. Now, we'll get to hear about how the Michigan job distracted Les Miles and the team.

Only until Les Miles rips someone's head off for asking. :)

WTG Arkansas.

[MJ4H]

hi

[JonInMiddleGA]

Congrats MJ4H, heck of an effort from a team that really seemed dead & gone to me.

[Young Drachma]

And I couldn't be happier for Sly Croom at Mississippi State. Glad the season turned around for them so well.

[sterlingice]

Can we finally drop LSU as the unanimous #1 despite coming into this week with an almost identical resume to Missouri, Ohio State, West Virginia, and Arizona State?

SI

[larrymcg421]

And I couldn't be happier for Sly Croom at Mississippi State. Glad the season turned around for them so well.

...especially with back to back wins over Alabama.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can we finally drop LSU as the unanimous #1 despite coming into this week with an almost identical resume to Missouri, Ohio State, West Virginia, and Arizona State?SI

Probably ... but only because at least one of those teams plays in a conference worth noticing on a regular basis.

[Young Drachma]

And Colorado State regains the Bronze Boot after beating Wyoming, ending another disappointing season by the Cowboys. Way to squander beating UVa. at home by completely imploding the rest of the year. Might be time to remake Joe Glenn's entire staff with people who can recruit.

[sterlingice]

Oh, and, hell, who needs a passing game when you have a running game like that ;)

SI

[sooner333]

...so you're saying there's a chance...

[Logan]

WVU back into the title game please.

[timmynausea]

Great game. This season is just insane.

[sterlingice]

Texas making a game of it down in College Station, only down 38-30 now after being down 38-17

SI

[sterlingice]

Disregard previous statement- looks like the UT/Texas A&M game is over with A&M winning

SI

[Buccaneer]

Here are the teams we root for to win:

BoiseSt
UConn
KU/MO (either one, as long as they beat OU in B12)
Tennessee

k, thx

[sterlingice]

Who is "we"?

SI

[miami_fan]

Who is "we"?

SI

People who want absolute chaos in the BCS?:confused:

[Celeval]

Lessee... that'd be KU/MO winner against Ohio State?

[Buccaneer]

Lessee... that'd be KU/MO winner against Ohio State?

Hmmm, I guess that would be slightly more preferable than KU/MO vs WVU. What are the other possibilities?

Regarding Boise, no WAC team should sniff a BCS bowl. That's just stupid.

[Noop]

Looks like Ohio State may back into the championship.

[Crim]

Shit, with the exception of KU (if they win out), anyone in the NC game is backing in. This year has been completely nucking futs.

[JSB]

If the KU/MO winner loses to Oklahoma and W Va loses what is the title game going to be???

[TazFTW]

PA-TACK!

[TazFTW]

Ooh, nice adjustment Hawthorne.

[TazFTW]

Colt Brennan for All Time Passing TD leader!

[MizzouRah]

This MU-KU game is the game of the year. :)

Thank you Arkansas!

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

You have to love this season! Please let the Bucks in!

[rowech]

This is easily the worst college football season ever. Unless Kansas goes undefeated, there is not a single team deserving of calling themselves champion. These, as far as I can tell are the matchups we can be looking at:

Missouri/Kansas winner (also wins Big 12) versus West Virginia
Missouri/Kansas (also wins Big 12) winner versus Ohio State (WVU loses)
Ohio State versus West Virginia (MISOU/KAN winner loses in title game)

If the stars aligned just right, possibly Ohio State/Georgia (MISSOU/KAN winner loses in title game and WVU loses)

If the stars really aligned just right, possibly OSU versus V.Tech/Oklahoma/LSU...the way this has gone, who knows....

[rowech]

I think it'll be OSU versus West Virginia which disgusts me.

I hope it ends up being MISSOU/KAN versus West Virginia so we can finally get a playoff.

[TazFTW]

I heart Davone Bess.

[JonInMiddleGA]

2 blocked PAT's in a half, how often does that actually happen?

[TazFTW]

WTF PAT team? Block somebody.

[sterlingice]

Well, you know there are 11 guys rushing and only 9 guys blocking so you could see how there would be a problem ;)

SI

[sooner333]

I think the Sugar Bowl committee is elated about today. Now they've fixed the Hawaii/Boise problem with getting LSU in the game. The NC was going to sell out anyway and New Orleans is probably just as happy getting people from farther away to stay in the hotels and stay a little bit longer.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tell you what, if Hawaii doesn't wake up, Boise is liable to beat their ass ... unless they keep throwing passes like that one

[TazFTW]

I heart Davone Bess.

QFT

(Although I could have done without the flip).

[TazFTW]

We made a PAT :eek:

[sterlingice]

We made a PAT :eek:

w00t! ;)

SI

[TazFTW]

Ugh, absolutely horrible.

[TazFTW]

Ouch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Q1 -- Did he just say "a knee to the Johnson"?
Q2 -- Can you say that on TV?

[TazFTW]

Damn fine catch.

[tarcone]

You guys are forgetting one thing. Oklahoma plays at Oklahoma State. If State wins they represent the South. Missouri has pummeled OSU already.

[TazFTW]

The rugby punt is just freaky.

[TazFTW]

Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

[TazFTW]

Finally a mistake by Boise special teams.

[TazFTW]

Nice stand D.

[Calis]

You guys are forgetting one thing. Oklahoma plays at Oklahoma State. If State wins they represent the South. Missouri has pummeled OSU already.

Missouri didn't play Oklahoma State this year did they? I don't think they did. KU did and beat them by a couple TD's, obviously either team would rather face them than OU in the championship.

[Vegas Vic]

You guys are forgetting one thing. Oklahoma plays at Oklahoma State. If State wins they represent the South.

You're wrong on both counts.

Oklahoma State plays at Oklahoma.

Oklahoma will represent the south, win or lose. With Texas' loss to aTm, Oklahoma will win the 3-way tiebreaker with Texas and OSU (because of their higher BCS ranking).

[TazFTW]

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Finally an outright WAC championship.

[MrBug708]

You're wrong on both counts.

Oklahoma State plays at Oklahoma.

Oklahoma will represent the south, win or lose. With Texas' loss to aTm, Oklahoma will win the 3-way tiebreaker with Texas and OSU (because of their higher BCS ranking).

A BCS standing deciding who wins a division/conference? That doesn't sound too bright...

[Vegas Vic]

A BCS standing deciding who wins a division/conference? That doesn't sound too bright...

It's the 5th tiebreaker in the hierarchical order, with head-to-head results being the first tiebreaker, etc. In this case, it would be necessary to go down to #5 to break the tie.

[tarcone]

Thanks for the correction. For some reason I had the other "facts" in my head.

[MizzouRah]

Fight, Tiger, fight for old Mizzou,
Right behind you, everyone is with you.
Break the line and follow down the field,
And, you'll be, on the top, upon the top.
Fight, Tiger, you will always win,
Proudly keep the colors flying skyward.
In the end, we'll win the victory,
So Tiger, fight for Old Mizzou!

[Balldog]

MNC: Georgia vs. Ohio State.

[Crim]

MNC: Georgia vs. Ohio State.

Gross.

[st.cronin]

This is easily the worst college football season ever.

I do not understand your value system, at all.

[tarcone]

It's the 5th tiebreaker in the hierarchical order, with head-to-head results being the first tiebreaker, etc. In this case, it would be necessary to go down to #5 to break the tie.

I just saw on ESPN that if 3 teams share the same conference schedule the tie breaker is highest team in BCS standings

[JeeberD]

Congrats k0 and Taz, I honestly didn't think the 'Bows had a chance against Boise...

[Leonidas]

As an Ohio State fan yesterday was sweet for two reasons.

1) we're one more upset away from playing in the title game

2) LSU losing means Les Miles is that much closer to being hired by Michigan

[Galaxy]

Hawaii only gets $50,000 per year to recruit?

It sounds like the facilities are in horrible shape. If so, Jones has done an incredible job with such little resources at his disposal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gross.

Understatement of the year
although we may have different reasons for thinking so ;)

[sooner333]

I just saw on ESPN that if 3 teams share the same conference schedule the tie breaker is highest team in BCS standings

I don't know about all of the conferences, but that is not the case in the Big 12.

First you go head-to-head. OU, OSU, and Texas would be 1-1 against eachother.

Second is the record against South Opponents, all three would be 3-2.

Third is record against the lower teams in order. Because A&M and Texas Tech are tied at 4th with the same south division record, they are looked at together and the three teams went 1-1 against them.

Fourth looks at common opponents in the North, however, the three teams share no common opponents.

Fifth is the BCS.

If they shared the same schedule, they could still be separated if they lost to different teams.

[terpkristin]

This Maryland - NC State game is going to be painful to watch (or at least listen to), I think I should make a drinking game of taking a drink everytime one of the announcers reminds us that the winner becomes bowl eligible.

/tk

[sterlingice]

Congrats k0 and Taz, I honestly didn't think the 'Bows had a chance against Boise...

I'd definitely like to echo these sentiments. I thought Boise St would win this game but congrats to Hawaii for the great season.

SI

[Celeval]

Three ACC games on tv in the Triangle - and none are UNC-Duke.

Edit: Ahh... it's hiding on ESPN-U.

[rowech]

I do not understand your value system, at all.

1. Unless Kansas wins it all, there will not be a team that deserves to call itself national champion. There are not two teams who I feel have put together a complete enough resume to say, yes, we deserve a shot at the title let alone one team who deserves to win the thing. Whoever wins this year will have simply survived and that's it.

2. It has been a season of medicority. College football thrives when there are dominant teams and it's better when it's the "big boys." Give me all of these lovely little stories of hope but in the end, NOBODY wants to see a Kansas-West Virginia title game unless you're a fan of those schools.

3. Much like the season, there is not a clear cut Heisman winner either. This is the one thing the season has for it. Dixon, Tebow, or McFadden? Dixon probably lost it by getting hurt but I still think he'll carry much of the west coast voting making it interesting to see if Tebow and McFadden might split the votes enough to somehow let Dixon still steal it. (I think he would have won it had he not been hurt)

4. My only hope out of all of this is people will finally see the need for a playoff. To have 117 teams play like this and to vote and use computers to determine a champion is simply idiotic. There was a time and a place for the voting system but it's day is long gone. Take every conference champ and some at-large teams and play a 16 team tournament. It is beyond time.

Hey....but maybe Kansas will win it all and go undefeated and I'll be able to say there really was a team who deserved to win it all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but maybe Kansas will win it all and go undefeated and I'll be able to say there really was a team who deserved to win it all.

You do realize that this mythical tournament winner isn't likely to have been any more undefeated than this year's BCS winner is going to be, right? And that 1/3rd of the national champions in your lifetime have not been undefeated?

[sooner333]

4. My only hope out of all of this is people will finally see the need for a playoff. To have 117 teams play like this and to vote and use computers to determine a champion is simply idiotic. There was a time and a place for the voting system but it's day is long gone. Take every conference champ and some at-large teams and play a 16 team tournament. It is beyond time.

I'm going to take another opportunity to advocate my 12 team playoff with all conference champs at one at large. Top four get byes and the first two rounds are played at home sites with the semis and final being rotated among four bowls (with the fourth bowl each year getting the top two teams left out).

You get the urgency of the regular season by knowing that winning the conference is the best shot. But, even if you are Texas and lost to OU or USC and lose to Oregon, you still have a chance to get in by playing perfect the rest of the way (or, if you are Northwestern, go undefeated but don't play also undefeated Ohio State...or if you are Notre Dame and you are actually good).

It allows for a meaningful regular season and advantages for doing well (byes, home games).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Top four get byes and the first two rounds are played at home sites with the semis and final being rotated among four bowls (with the fourth bowl each year getting the top two teams left out).

Keep trying, maybe you can turn CFB into a 16 game season too :rolleyes:

[Toddzilla]

Time for the annual UVA smashing....Go Hokies Go!

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3125379
LINCOLN, Neb. -- Bill Callahan was fired as Nebraska's coach Saturday, his four-year stay marked by the most embarrassing losses at a football program once among the mightiest in the nation.

ESPN's Joe Schad first reported the move.

Interim athletic director and Nebraska great Tom Osborne announced the dismissal one day after the Cornhuskers ended the season at 5-7 following a 65-51 loss at Colorado.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3125473
A few weeks after Ole Miss brass announced that head coach Ed Orgeron would be back in 2008, the third-year coach was fired Saturday, ESPN.com has learned.

The news comes a day after the Rebels lost to archrival Mississippi State 17-14, capping off a winless SEC season for the first time in over two decades.

[JonInMiddleGA]

#14 BC finally takes a 7-0 lead over Miami, 8 mins left 1st half
#23 USF tied with Pitt 7-7, 8 mins left 1st half.

[Celeval]

A few weeks after Ole Miss brass announced that head coach Ed Orgeron would be back in 2008, the third-year coach was fired Saturday, ESPN.com has learned.

Is this any different than "I'm not going to coach Alabama... I'm not going to coach Alabama... I'm now the new coach of Alabama"?

[Buccaneer]

Keep trying, maybe you can turn CFB into a 16 game season too :rolleyes:

plus we need to eliminate 3/4 of the teams so we can have full and comparative divisional and conference records to accurate determine tie-breakers. Let's just have some post-season bowl games and be done with it. Those crying for something definitive are making much more out of this than necessary.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is this any different than "I'm not going to coach Alabama... I'm not going to coach Alabama... I'm now the new coach of Alabama"?

The article goes on to say He seemed confident that'd he'd be back for 2008, but one of his assistants pointed out that votes of confidence rarely mean anything. "They just say those kinds of things so you keep recruiting," said the assistant.

I think it probably is a little surprising, since the consensus seemed to be that he would survive & get one more year. I guess the manner of losing yesterday was probably the difference, although I'm not sure who the heck they're going to get that's any better right now. This is a weak sister that now has their problems compounded by having their in-state rival being headed in the opposite direction.

[Buccaneer]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3125379
LINCOLN, Neb. -- Bill Callahan was fired as Nebraska's coach Saturday, his four-year stay marked by the most embarrassing losses at a football program once among the mightiest in the nation.

ESPN's Joe Schad first reported the move.

Interim athletic director and Nebraska great Tom Osborne announced the dismissal one day after the Cornhuskers ended the season at 5-7 following a 65-51 loss at Colorado.


A month ago, Callahan said he was doing an excellent job. What happened, did the players stop playing for him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

TD UVA ! Thanks to an interception on an ill-advised flea flicker try by VT.

14-13 Cavs with 8ish left in the first half.

[terpkristin]

15 yard run by Lance Ball puts the score 16-0 with about 7:30 left in the first half, PAT is good, 17-0 Terps.

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

A month ago, Callahan said he was doing an excellent job. What happened, did the players stop playing for him?

Did they ever start playing for him?

When the Huskers were 4-4, Osborne said, he told Callahan that if the team finished 8-4, there would be no coaching change and that if he won three of the last four games "we can maybe make it work."

"If it's two out of four, it's going to be pretty tough because now you're break-even, and we haven't had many break-even seasons around here," Osborne said he told Callahan. "And if we have a losing season, there isn't any way this will work. The parameters were pretty clearly spelled out."... "There were five [losses] at least that were three touchdowns or more," Osborne said. "So it's not just how many you win and how many you lose, but kind of how you do it."

[rowech]

You do realize that this mythical tournament winner isn't likely to have been any more undefeated than this year's BCS winner is going to be, right? And that 1/3rd of the national champions in your lifetime have not been undefeated?

Yes, but at least they will have settled it on the field instead of by voting and computers.

Yes to your second question which is why I find the whole system stupid and beyond all belief. Many seasons, I simply don't have a title holder in my mind or perhaps I have two.

For my money, the current system is no better than the system we had before with all the bowl tie-ins.

[st.cronin]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3125473
A few weeks after Ole Miss brass announced that head coach Ed Orgeron would be back in 2008, the third-year coach was fired Saturday, ESPN.com has learned.

The news comes a day after the Rebels lost to archrival Mississippi State 17-14, capping off a winless SEC season for the first time in over two decades.

Ping: David Cutliffe

[terpkristin]

Terps up 24-0 now with 4 left in the first half. I really wish this team would've showed up more often this season. :rolleyes:

/tk

[Young Drachma]

For my money, the current system is no better than the system we had before with all the bowl tie-ins.


+1

It'll never happen after this season. This is close as you'll ever get to a playoff, because the moneygrabbers are already annoyed that they can't get voted into the title game on prestige, so they open the door to more bottomfeeders in their own conferences, wait a year or two and pray that they can "restore the natural order of things."

But if we keep seeing this sort of parity, they might opt for a playoff just to keep the so-called "pretenders" on a leash more than they already are.

Because if they keep messing around, one of these "weak" schools from "weak" conferences is going to screw around and win the whole thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes to your second question which is why I find the whole system stupid and beyond all belief.

Umm ... huh?

On the one hand you're bitching because this year's #1 won't be undefeated ... but you're also advocating a system that makes it even less likely than the champion will be undefeated.

Although I don't agree about the "settled on the field" bit (as there's been plenty of action on the field to get us to the end), at least there's some sort of logic I can see there. The earlier rant about the lack of an undefeated team though, {shrug} I just don't see that as a problem.

[Logan]

2. It has been a season of medicority. College football thrives when there are dominant teams and it's better when it's the "big boys." Give me all of these lovely little stories of hope but in the end, NOBODY wants to see a Kansas-West Virginia title game unless you're a fan of those schools.

Just out of curiosity, why? WVU's offense is one of the most entertaining to watch in the country, and they have two of the most dynamic players in the country in White and Slaton, with a 3rd on the way in Devine.

The only reason nobody would want to watch these teams play is if they have never actually seen them play.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pitt leads USF 14-10 at the half
BC leads Miami 14-0 with 30 secs left in the half.

And we're underway in Lexington with the SEC East title on the line.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TOUCHDOWN TENNESSEE !!!

Ainge to Arian Foster, 65 yd pass on the first play from scrimmage.
7-0 Vols

[terpkristin]

Pitt leads USF 14-10 at the half
BC leads Miami 14-0 with 30 secs left in the half.

And we're underway in Lexington with the SEC East title on the line.

Terps up 24-0 at the half.

8 bowls for the ACC, 7 already spoken for, and 3 teams bowl eligible today (Terps, NCSU, Miami). I guess so far things are looking OK for us to go bowling, as rough a season as it's been, between injuries and a stupid stupid qb.

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess so far things are looking OK for us to go bowling, as rough a season as it's been, between injuries and a stupid stupid qb.


FWIW, you're welcome to the Emerald Bowl if you want it.

[terpkristin]

TOUCHDOWN TENNESSEE !!!

Ainge to Arian Foster, 65 yd pass on the first play from scrimmage.
7-0 Vols

Is the Tennessee game being shown nationally, or only local coverage? I have a good friend who I told I'd cheer for Tennessee. ;) (no, it's not AE)

/tk

[terpkristin]

FWIW, you're welcome to the Emerald Bowl if you want it.

Heh. I'll take whatever we can get, to be able to salvage SOMETHING from this season...

/tk

[st.cronin]

Is the Tennessee game being shown nationally, or only local coverage? I have a good friend who I told I'd cheer for Tennessee. ;) (no, it's not AE)

/tk

I have it on CBS.

[terpkristin]

FWIW, you're welcome to the Emerald Bowl if you want it.

I just looked it up, looks like we'd go to the Humanitarian Bowl in Boise, Idaho. As of now, that looks to be played against Boise St.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions

Something tells me I won't be going to that game...

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is the Tennessee game being shown nationally, or only local coverage?

CBS, I think it's their national game but not 100% sure about that.

(I think they're national, with ABC doing regional games in the 330 slot)

[terpkristin]

I have it on CBS.

Ah, so do I, thanks. :)

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Great YAC by TE Brad Cottam leads to Ainge-to-Taylor TD.
14-0 Tennessee, 4 mins left 1st quarter.

[Mustang]

Hawaii only gets $50,000 per year to recruit?

It sounds like the facilities are in horrible shape. If so, Jones has done an incredible job with such little resources at his disposal.

$50,000 seems like alot to send out letters that read -



Please consider Hawaii. It is 80 and we have women in bikinis.

Sincerely,

June Jones

[Celeval]

$50,000 seems like alot to send out letters that read -



Please consider Hawaii. It is 80 and we have women in bikinis.

Sincerely,

June Jones

You have to figure Hawaii has as many official visits by players "just because" as anyone in the country.

[terpkristin]

Another TD for the Terps makes it 37-0 with just under 10:30 left in the game.

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennessee now 17-7, but Kentucky converts on a fake punt to keep the ball with about 4 mins left in the half. (Although now it seems like it wasn't a fake but rather a bad snap that the punter salvaged to avoid a possible block)

And USF is now killing Pitt 34-14 with 9 mins left.

[JonInMiddleGA]

After Kentucky punted, the teams traded interceptions, leading to Ainge-to-Hancock for a 24-7 Tennessee lead with 17 secs left in the half.

[GrantDawg]

MNC: Georgia vs. Ohio State.


Never going to happen. Kentucky has no chance versus the Vols, and UGA is going to be lucky to beat Tech. The Tech game has "trap" written all over it, and GT is always a snake in the grass for any ranked team when they are unranked, but especially to the Dawgs.

[terpkristin]

With the win, the Terps become bowl eligible, I assume the Humanitarian Bowl. Hey, it's some post-season play, surprising to me after watching us play this year and the way it started, plus our injuries....I'll take what I can get.

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Tech game has "trap" written all over it, and GT is always a snake in the grass for any ranked team when they are unranked, but especially to the Dawgs.

I'll see your Munson-esque doom & gloom fears & raise you a "how in the hell is GT going to beat Georgia with a moron coaching, a mediocre wannabe for an OC, and a guy with a lower QB rating than Reggie Ball under center?"

We barely beat UNC for cryin' out loud. I can't remember when I thought we had less of a chance of winning this game, sick to my stomach as that makes me.

[JeeberD]

The Miners are playing for nothing but pride today, but are keeping it close against a very tough UCF team. UCF was up 16-0, but an amazing one-handed TD grab by Fred Rouse gave us seven, and after UCF missed a FG just before the end of the half, a hook-and-ladder play got us far enough downfield to nail a 48 yard FG by our Groza Award finalist kicker, Jose Martinez. 16-10 UCF at the half.

[GrantDawg]

I'll see your Munson-esque doom & gloom fears & raise you a "how in the hell is GT going to beat Georgia with a moron coaching, a mediocre wannabe for an OC, and a guy with a lower QB rating than Reggie Ball under center?"

We barely beat UNC for cryin' out loud. I can't remember when I thought we had less of a chance of winning this game, sick to my stomach as that makes me.


Because this is Georgia-Georgia Tech.