Alright Boyz, Here We Go! The World Of Mixed Martial Arts First Impressions Thread

[Neon_Chaos]

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/home.php

$34.95

edit: I always wanted to start up a thread like this. :D

[SirFozzie]

arrrrrghhh..
and me stuck at work!

[Icy]

Great!! I was going to post it but you were faster :)
Getting it now.

[Cringer]

arrrrrghhh..
and me stuck at work!

Sucks for you, since they will stop selling it in about 4 hours. ;)

[SirFozzie]

Sucks for you, since they will stop selling it in about 4 hours. ;)

Yuck Fou.. ;)

[SirFozzie]

So anyone interested in a Village Challenge or a Groupthink FOFC dynasty with WMMA?

[Calis]

Oops, ignore my bump of the other thread. I somehow completely missed this one.

Good to hear this one got released early. I think it was a much smoother demo than expected and it's a good idea.

Unfortunately I'm stuck at work also for another 3 hours, but I'll be binging on it all night when I get home.

[Icy]

So anyone interested in a Village Challenge or a Groupthink FOFC dynasty with WMMA?

Yup, i am as it will be a good way to learn the game. Too bad this one is nto multiplayer as it could have been really fun to play against each other.

[SirFozzie]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=62458 Sign up thread

[DaddyTorgo]

nice. Happy thursday

[molson]

What I really want to know is whether this is more of a game or a replay sim. It's really a unique kind of universe for a text sim - you're a single entity presiding over competive participants, and you have no control of the outcome of the competitions. It's like you're the NFL rather than a team. How is that a game?

[Calis]

What I really want to know is whether this is more of a game or a replay sim. It's really a unique kind of universe for a text sim - you're a single entity presiding over competive participants, and you have no control of the outcome of the competitions. It's like you're the NFL rather than a team. How is that a game?

It's much more a game than a replay sim imo.

You're working on signing fighters to your organization, building the fighters up you want by hand picking their competition or if you want going in the spirit of just plain competition. You're trying to get an edge up on the other companies out there also who are coming after the same fighters, fans, and revenue streams that you are, so you are competing against several other entities in charge of companies.

That being said, the fun in the game is still the fighters fighting, which you don't directly control. I'm enjoying setting up some big matches down the road, and building up both those fighters to the point where it's a hugely anticipated fight. It works.

So far in game though I've spent most of my time raging about how I had perfect plans set up for several guys in my newly created Organization only to see them continuously snapped up by the big two companies. It's seriously difficult to keep up as a little guy.

[Buccaneer]

What I really want to know is whether this is more of a game or a replay sim. It's really a unique kind of universe for a text sim - you're a single entity presiding over competive participants, and you have no control of the outcome of the competitions. It's like you're the NFL rather than a team. How is that a game?

You obviously need a kick to the face to understand...or something like that.

[molson]

Any more thoughts on this? I don't buy nothing anymore unless you guys give it thumbs up.

[BYU 14]

Consider it thumbed...The only downfall for me is I think they should cut back on the frequency of the Blurrcat updates as it gets a bit repetitive seeing the same stories repeated since they do pretty much daily updates. Cutting it down to a weekly internet newsletter format would keeep it a bit fresher IMO.

[twothree]

Other then the constant clicking to advance to the next day, it is a pretty fun game. An advancement by one week instead of by one day would probably have been a better design given the amount of interaction available.

Only found one error in the default database, while going through the entire fight history (47 fights, mostly title changes) to put together a timeline to help me learn the game's background. ALPHA-1: Sound Of Silence is listed as taking place in January of 1995 for one fight and January of 1996 for the other fight on the card.

[Joe]

is it a card game?

[DaddyTorgo]

I had my first super-supercard last night, and hit it out of the park.

Feb 1997 - Gamma 1 - The Future is Now

Mike Watson def. Anthony Ballard - TKO
Steve Mason def Raul Hughes - decision
Julio Reguiro def Joe Hinchcliffe - decision
Luis Basora def. "Black Superman" Nathan Chambers - TKO - Basora new Welterweight Champion
Patrick Thomas def. Stuart Strange - TKO
Maarten de Vries def. Matthew Dean - TKO
Buddy Garner def. Neil Napier - decision - Garner new Middleweight Champion
Sean Morrison def. Charles Stiles - Submission - Morrison retains Leightweight Title
John Rivero def. Zvomir Asanovic - TKO - Rivero new LHW Champion
James Foster def. Shane Gilchrist (who dethroned Hughes) - Knockout - Foster new HW Champion

[twothree]

James Foster def. Shane Gilchrist (who dethroned Hughes) - Knockout - Foster new HW Champion

So, what direction are you going to attempt to go next?

Foster vs. Hughes II
Foster vs. Gilchrist II
(#1 Contender) Hughes vs. Gilchrist II
or
Foster vs. someone else

[DaddyTorgo]

So, what direction are you going to attempt to go next?

Foster vs. Hughes II
Foster vs. Gilchrist II
(#1 Contender) Hughes vs. Gilchrist II
or
Foster vs. someone else

I think I can go Hughes vs. Gilchrist II and then also throw Foster someone like Tony McCall (who's rattled off some impressive upsets) or the winner of Stafford Alois vs. Leftar Oktay.

Lucky thing is Foster likes a nice 2 month break between considering fights, so I have time with another PPV and a TV-special to sort out the HW division.

The thing that hurt my ideas the most was Patrick Thomas being upset by Neil Napier as I was trying to give Thomas a beat-push. Napier actually won Fighter of the Year from Blurcat somehow.

Rankings:

HW: Foster, Alois, Gilchrist, Oktay, Steve Mason, Tim Boyer, Tony McCall, Milton Harvey, Rev Kapur, Fatuma Roy
LHW: John Rivero, Van Den Hauwe, Asanovic, Chris Sharp, Mike Watson, Ricky Heath, Peter Mack
MW: Garner, Halvorsen, Napier, Patrick Thomas, Maarten De Vries, Atteveld, Rush, Amaro, Dean, Stuart Strange
WW: Basora, Regueiro, Humphreys, Lukas Mellberg, Korekiyo Anzai, Kendall, cahill, Hinchcliffe, Bracewell, Chambers
LW: Morrison, Malcolm O'Hearn, Charles Stiles, Jackson Gray, Callum Henson, scrubs

[twothree]

The thing that hurt my ideas the most was Patrick Thomas being upset by Neil Napier as I was trying to give Thomas a beat-push. Napier actually won Fighter of the Year from Blurcat somehow.

A fighter needs three matches during the year before they can be considered for the award. Because your first year starts in July, Napier was probably considered the "best" among fighters who fought 3 times in 1996.

[DaddyTorgo]

A fighter needs three matches during the year before they can be considered for the award. Because your first year starts in July, Napier was probably considered the "best" among fighters who fought 3 times in 1996.

yeah...but I don't like him. He's a pansy SOB.

[SirFozzie]

talk about an instant ending to a fight, what a reversal!

Round 1
Tentative start to the round, the fighters are circling. O'Hearn throws out a couple of range-finding jabs, but they aren't anything that will trouble Magilton. Kick to the thigh from Magilton, but it lacked power. Magilton throws out a few jabs, nothing too dangerous though, O'Hearn easily avoided them. O'Hearn drives Magilton up against the ropes and sweeps him for an astonishingly easy takedown. O'Hearn seems to be feeling it, he starts raining down punches! A big shot catches Magilton right in the mouth, followed closely by one above the right eye. This could all be over very soon, Magilton is getting creamed. O'Hearn fires off another big punch, this time grazing the ear...but Magilton suddenly snaps his guard shut, catching an overconfident O'Hearn in a triangle choke! It looks like Magilton lured him into that one. O'Hearn tries to fight it, but he is caught and looks like he is fading fast. Magilton squeezes even harder. O'Hearn taps out! It's over. Official time of the triangle choke submission is 1:27 of the first.

[Neon_Chaos]

Alright, Adam has replied to me in this thread regarding certain UI issues.

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=334262

A new (the third, so far) patch is coming out tomorrow.

Gotta love Greydog and their customer service.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Alright, Adam has replied to me in this thread regarding certain UI issues.

UI issues are (AFAIC) a trademark of all of his games. Without a doubt TEW is the most click-happy game I've ever left on my computer, which I guess says something about my desire to have a game in that niche.

[Neon_Chaos]

UI issues are (AFAIC) a trademark of all of his games. Without a doubt TEW is the most click-happy game I've ever left on my computer, which I guess says something about my desire to have a game in that niche.

QFT.

[Icy]

I'm working on adding more fighters to the database while practicing my 3D modeling skills. This is the first time i work with 3D modelling so results should improve with time. Here are my first two attempts:

http://www.managersims.com/WMMA/figther1.gif

http://www.managersims.com/WMMA/figther2.gif

http://www.managersims.com/WMMA/fighter3.gif

[SirFozzie]

Nice.. BTW Icy, you might want to restart the challenge, I got a new computer as a christmas gift.. but um.. the old computer had my file.

[Eaglesfan27]

I didn't realize the game had 3-D graphical representation of fighters. I guess I could try out the demo, but it will be quicker to ask: Is there any form of graphical representation of the fights?

[Icy]

I didn't realize the game had 3-D graphical representation of fighters. I guess I could try out the demo, but it will be quicker to ask: Is there any form of graphical representation of the fights?

Nope, the graphics are just for the players cards, not for the fights.

[twothree]

Petey Mack (10-1) won Fighter of the Year for 1997 in my game. He went 4-0 during the year. He beat Robert Darrell by submission to earn a title shot. Then he knocked out Uwe Maier for the BCF Middleweight title in May of 97. Followed by two successful defenses against Andrew Rush (knockout) and Will Kane (TKO). All fights won in less than 3 minutes of round 1.

Both ALPHA-1 and GAMMA have reached maximum size (Enormous) while BCF and WEFF have stayed at small size. Both ALPHA-1 and GAMMA have switched back and forth being the #1 promotion usually depending upon who last ran an event, but for the last few months of 97, ALPHA-1 has remained #1 since they expanded their TV presence into Canada. They both have TV and PPV deals in the U.S. and Japan. And they have both signed fighters away from BCF including at the time, current BCF title holders.

As of January 1998, my top 10 media ranked best pound for pound fighter:

1) Lefter Oktay (9-0) - current GAMMA heavyweight champ, won in November 96. Had a 5 star match in his first title defense against James Foster in April 97, scoring a TKO in round 5. (GAMMA's #1 ranked heavyweight)

2) Hassan Fezzik (28-1) - lost the ALPHA-1 heavyweight championship to current champ, Shane Gilchrist (12-2) in June 1997. (ALPHA-1's #1 ranked heavyweight)

3) Stafford Alois (22-7) - Knocked out Garry McSweegan for the BCF heavyweight championship in August 96. Left for GAMMA in October 96, leaving the BCF heavyweight title vacant for over a year. (GAMMA's #2 ranked heavyweight)

4) Jack Humphreys (15-2) - current 2 time GAMMA Welterweight champ. Got his title back from Julio Regueiro in July 97 by Knock Out. Scheduled to face Ray Eton (10-2) this month.

5) Leon Banks (13-3) - unemployed. Former ALPHA-1 light heavyweight champ, which he won in January of 97. Title is currently vacant after he left in July 97.

6) Go Yamamoto (15-2) - current 2 time ALPHA-1 lightweight champion. Lost the title to Carlos da Guia in Nov 96, but won it back from him in Dec 97. Both matches were rated 5 stars.

7) James Foster (19-3) - Had a win in Aug 96 against Tim Boyer and a knock out of Rick Stanley in Dec 96 (5 stars) to earn his title shot against Lefter Oktay in Apr 97, which he lost. (GAMMA's #3 ranked heavyweight)

8) Gunnar Nilsson (19-3) - The former GAMMA heavyweight champ. Switched to ALPHA-1, and has only had one match with them. A knock out of Eien Kawano. (ALPHA-1's #2 ranked heavyweight)

9) Tim Boyer (17-4-2) - Besides his lost to James Foster, his only other match was a TKO against Harry Milne. (GAMMA's #4 ranked heavyweight)

10) Kunimichi Kikuchi (21-3) - The former heavyweight champ lost his rematch against Fezzik in September of 96, but is scheduled to face current champ Shane Gilchrist this month. He is starting to have health problems due to fighting, but has not announced his retirement yet. (ALPHA-1's #3 ranked heavyweight)

[Calis]

UI issues are (AFAIC) a trademark of all of his games. Without a doubt TEW is the most click-happy game I've ever left on my computer, which I guess says something about my desire to have a game in that niche.

agree with this 100%. It ruined TEW for me. Great game, loved the idea, but I'd literally cramp my hand playing for any length of time. Really really detracted from the game.

WMMA is easier because you're not booking nearly as much, but it's still much more of a pain than it should be. I'm spending more time making spreadsheets or flipping through menus to get to where I need than I am playing the game, and that's a little frustrating.

I still am really enjoying the game, but there has to be a better way to get info to the user.

[TLK]

The new patch is out and it looks good. The booking screen has a lot more information in a compact form. Combined with the UFC mod that was released... I'll delve even further into the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Woohoo. I love that Adam actually listens to feedback and reacts accordingly. :D Particulary mine.

[DaddyTorgo]

The new patch is out and it looks good. The booking screen has a lot more information in a compact form. Combined with the UFC mod that was released... I'll delve even further into the game.

really?? fuck me, that's awesome

[Calis]

Ah, ice storm today..the benefits of working in a school are I get to play WMMA all day today.

The patch is great. I think that information is really helpful when booking. I still really want some sort of spreadsheet view of all my fighters, especially contracts, but skills would be nice also.

Completely missed the UFC Mod though, I'll have to grab that right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ah, ice storm today..the benefits of working in a school are I get to play WMMA all day today.

The patch is great. I think that information is really helpful when booking. I still really want some sort of spreadsheet view of all my fighters, especially contracts, but skills would be nice also.

Completely missed the UFC Mod though, I'll have to grab that right now.


elaborate on what information is moved/helpful when booking?

[Calis]

elaborate on what information is moved/helpful when booking?

When you go to add a match, right on the screen he added the Age, Height, Weight, Form, Fight Style, and weight division to the screen so you can see that info for both fighters right away.

It also gives you the fan interest level as well.

It's a nice little time saver.

[DaddyTorgo]

When you go to add a match, right on the screen he added the Age, Height, Weight, Form, Fight Style, and weight division to the screen so you can see that info for both fighters right away.

It also gives you the fan interest level as well.

It's a nice little time saver.

hot. saves me clicking onto scout each guy to try to see how their styles will matchup, and how they stack up roughly in terms of being on a win streak or not

[EagleFan]

This game has been surprisingly addicting so far.

It is a little frustrating in my current career running a small company as every time I build up a fighter he gets snatched from me by one of the top companies.

At least I'm building up the interest in my area and starting to move outward a bit. Maybe one day I'll be able to return the favor to those companies. :)

[twothree]

This game has been surprisingly addicting so far.

Very addicting for me. Almost the only game I have played since it got released. I have just been fooling around in the game waiting for the first official (non-temporary) patch to be released, since I think it will be adding a few more fighters. I am also currently running a small start up in late 1999. And a few of my title holders have overall losing records (and quite a few draws).

I have been trying out quite a few of the options, like the automatic time limit draw rule (no judge's decision), which I think would be fine for non-title matches but I don't think works in title matches. Five 10 minute rounds ending in an automatic time limit draw for a championship sucks, especially since it is not considered a successful defense (rightfully so) by the game, and therefore is not shown in the history of the title belt. I am still using the automatic time limit draw rule in my test game because it destroys fighter's winning streaks and seems to prevent other companies from using that fighter. :)

I still don't know what round times I will be using when the patch comes out. Currently, I think three 10 minute rounds is what I will use, maybe 5 rounds for the championship defenses (like ALPHA-1). I have figured out the name for my start up and what weight classes I will be using.

Women's Lightweight (106-120)
Women's Middleweight (121-135)
Women's Heavyweight (136-155)
Lightweight (146-165)
Middleweight (166-185)
Light Heavyweight (186-205) The standard Light Heavyweight class
Middle Heavyweight (206-235)
Heavyweight (236-265)

Back to the game...

[korme]

How does this compare to TEW? I found TEW fun, but ultimately, it was too time consuming and I eventually burned out on it about a month after periodic use.

I am interested in this but fear much the same.

[twothree]

How does this compare to TEW? I found TEW fun, but ultimately, it was too time consuming and I eventually burned out on it about a month after periodic use.

I am interested in this but fear much the same.

Your fears are real, but we can clone them out of you. :D

I am having about the same experience with WMMA that I did with TEW2005. So I would guess that you would probably have the same experience with WMMA that you did with TEW, since WMMA is very similar to TEW in quite a few areas.

I guess that means don't buy it unless you have a free month of your life available. ;)

[Icy]

Just pimping my interactive dynasty signup thread, hurry up! :)

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1615170

[Galaril]

Your fears are real, but we can clone them out of you. :D

I am having about the same experience with WMMA that I did with TEW2005. So I would guess that you would probably have the same experience with WMMA that you did with TEW, since WMMA is very similar to TEW in quite a few areas.

I guess that means don't buy it unless you have a free month of your life available. ;)

Why is it so time consuming ? Because it is addictive or because it is very micromanagement like?

[Icy]

Why is it so time consuming ? Because it is addictive or because it is very micromanagement like?

I don't find it micromanaging at all, in fact the only defect i see on this game is that it's too simple and you are more an expectator than aplayer as there are not a lot of things to do besides booking fights and dealing with fighters contracts and some finances. TEW was way more deep but this is a great game for it' sfirst version, i hope it will get more deep for future versions.

The only issue that bothers me with Rickland games is the mount of clicks to go from one screen to another, my first attempt is always to double click on the figthers names to open their profiles, instead it only selects them, and then you need to click on the profile button. The same on most of the screens, i wonder why double click is not used on any screen, maybe a VB limitation but i doubt it as a lot of text sims are developed in VB and use double clicks to open things.

Anyway this is a fantastic game if you can get over the interface, simpler than TEW, but i like more the MMA sport than the Wrestling circus. I hope the next version will be as deep as TEW but based on MMA.

[twothree]

Why is it so time consuming ? Because it is addictive or because it is very micromanagement like?

I find that I keep track of quite a bit more information then the program does. For TEW2005 I kept a spreadsheet. For WMMA, so far I have just been writing things down, but I will probably create a spreadsheet eventually.

Examples of information I keep for WMMA that the game does not would be a fighter's total earnings or the date when a fighter changes his fighting weight. I keep track of changes in the rankings (after a fight card or after someone joins or leaves the company.) The game only shows the current rankings. I also try to plan out about two or three future fight cards in advance. You can only schedule one fight card in the game at a time, so I need to take notes.

It is how I play most text sims. I basically record the history of the game, what you would see in a posted dynasty thread. For WMMA I even went back through all the fight history recorded in the default database and wrote it down in chronological order. Did you know Fezzik beat Foster by TKO in April of 1990 on a card called "Fight Night IV" for a company with the initials BBP?

[BigMak]

The same on most of the screens, i wonder why double click is not used on any screen, maybe a VB limitation but i doubt it as a lot of text sims are developed in VB and use double clicks to open things.


VB supports double clicking.

[EagleFan]

Damn, so much for those plans. I had a "monster" of a figher, or so I thought, that I signed as an unknown heavyweight. 265 pounds of muscle and he destrotyed the first couple opponents that I sent at him. Then my heavyweight champ signs with another company so I figure I would give hima "going away present" and was able to book him in a regeion where the 60 pound weight difference did not red flag the fight.

I figured he would be in for a pounding as a way to say goodbye. :D

In round one my up and comer handled him and won the round. I thought this was a good sign. Early in the second he started hammering away and taking it to my champion when the champ landed a series of blows that staggered him. Then the champ took him down and went into ground and pound with full control and the ref stopped the fight with my contender bloodied and dazed (and my champion most likely flipping me the finger).

[DaddyTorgo]

was messing around with the real world mod last night (not tap or snap but the other one) and had some...interesting results.

i don't remember all of them, but when i get home i'll post them.

basically: Jeremy Horn beat Big Nog via T.K.O. at LHW, Anderson Silva lost to that African striker with the 3 names (Remy Thiedeau Sola-whatever?), Chuck Liddell has lost his last 2 matches, and some other interesting occurences. Oh...Diego Sanchez has lost his last 2 matches also (including one that should have been a cakewalk).

Will post more details later.

[twothree]

With the new temporary 1.2 patch you can now advance up to 28 days, as long as you don't get any emails or pending decisions. You won't be able to read any of the news items from the internet website on any of the days you have skipped. (Unless you are a really really fast reader or have a really really slow computer.) You can turn the feature "on", on the game settings screen under options.

I have also started putting together a spreadsheet listing everyone in the 1.1 default database. So far I have all 425 characters entered with their names, nicknames, gender, hometowns, fighting styles, and date they become active (if that active date is after July 1996).

[twothree]

Sorry about the long post, but if anyone wants what I have typed so far, here it is.


[Edited to remove the long post, since hopefully anyone that wanted it has it already.]

[Pumpy Tudors]

Can you use an edited database in the demo version? I haven't installed the demo yet, but I want to put some of my friends into the game. The thing is, I'm not sure if I want to buy the game yet. Will I be able to edit my friends into the demo?

[Calis]

Can you use an edited database in the demo version? I haven't installed the demo yet, but I want to put some of my friends into the game. The thing is, I'm not sure if I want to buy the game yet. Will I be able to edit my friends into the demo?

I don't think so. I seem to remember people complaining when the demo came out that you were locked into the default.

I could be wrong though.

[Pumpy Tudors]

No problem. I guess I'll install the demo and play with the default. That'll give me an idea of if I even want to buy the game and bother putting my friends in.

[Deattribution]

I'm pretty sure you can edit the default database in the demo, you just can't switch to a different database.

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay - My Strange Happenings

1. Justin McCully def. Mirko Cro Cop (decision)
2. Karo Parisyan def. Diego Sanchez (T.K.O rd. 1) - okay at least plausible
3. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou def. Rampage (T.K.O rd 1)
4. Randy Coutoute def. Big Nog (T.K.O)
5. Jeremy Horn def. Big Nog (T.K.O)
6. Jon Koppenhaver def. Diego Sanchez (T.K.O)

[Calis]

Yeah with one of the real world datasets I had Chuck Liddell submit Wanderlei in something like 30 seconds.

I went back to the default data almost immediately.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah with one of the real world datasets I had Chuck Liddell submit Wanderlei in something like 30 seconds.

I went back to the default data almost immediately.

i don't think Chuck could submit ME in 30 seconds, let alone Wanderlei.

[DaddyTorgo]

Anyone have any idea how to increase "interest" in a fight? Say I have two fighters, one on a "winning streak" and the other "coming off a victory." I want them to fight for the Heavyweight belt...the champ is 27-1, the other guy is 30-4-1. Shouldn't this match be "Massive" by itself in interest instead of just "very high?" Do I really need to spend a half year feeding the challenger punks or something to get it up to "Massive" ?

[Arles]

Just an FYI, but Adam released the first official patch earlier this week and made a new beta 1.2 he just released last night. Here's some of the contents:

*** Version 1.2 (TBA)
- Fixed problem with accented letters showing up incorrectly in match reports
- Fixed lingering issues with weight class genders
- Fixed existing staff becoming owners when set not to
- Added ability to add weight classes even when matches are booked
- Added ability to skip up to one month at a time
- Fixed problem with presidency applications
- Added block from putting two TV shows on same night
- Fixed issue with fighters not blocking signings of promotions who fired them
- Added ability to switch belt graphics between background and foreground
- Modified hiring code to take into account other contracts more
- Modified minimum roster size for promotions with less weight divisions
- Fixed various small errors and omissions
- Fixed various spelling, grammatical and text output issues

[Neon_Chaos]

i don't think Chuck could submit ME in 30 seconds, let alone Wanderlei.

I'd pay to see that match.


Chuck vs. you, I mean.

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

I'd pay to see that match.


Chuck vs. you, I mean.

:)

i think i'd last more than 30 seconds just by virtue of the fact that i could run away and bob and 30 seconds isn't that long. Might get KO'd in 30 seconds, but certainly not submitted. I don't think Chuck really knows any of the submissions that would make me feel the need to tap after < 30 seconds.

Oh and what...now you hate me that much you want to see Chuck kick my ass Neon? Just cuz I'm the uber-WW player?? :confused:

[Pumpy Tudors]

How are people creating the fighter graphics? I looked around the GDS boards and saw mention of DAZ Studio. I know that DAZ is free, but if I really want to dive into it and create pictures of fighters, will I need to buy any additional textures for it? I'd love to try to make pictures as a hobby, but I don't want to pay a bunch of money for it.

[Calis]

How are people creating the fighter graphics? I looked around the GDS boards and saw mention of DAZ Studio. I know that DAZ is free, but if I really want to dive into it and create pictures of fighters, will I need to buy any additional textures for it? I'd love to try to make pictures as a hobby, but I don't want to pay a bunch of money for it.

Yeah I think people use Daz which is free, but I think they charge you for some "Accessories" like tattoos, maybe hair and such. I'm not 100% sure what they charge for but it's out there.

People also use Poser which is definitely not free. It can get pretty pricey with add-ons.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Through my research last night, it appears that the accessories are only about $1 each, but you need to have a premium or platinum membership or somesuch with Daz in order to get that price. If you aren't a member, they're REALLY expensive, like $40 apiece.

Anyway, the membership is something like $8/month, but there's a $30 startup fee. It's pretty pricey to get the accessories, it appears. I'm not sure that I'd wanna go through all of that. It looks like a fun thing to fool around with, but I don't want to take it too far. Ah, well.

[Neon_Chaos]

i think i'd last more than 30 seconds just by virtue of the fact that i could run away and bob and 30 seconds isn't that long. Might get KO'd in 30 seconds, but certainly not submitted. I don't think Chuck really knows any of the submissions that would make me feel the need to tap after < 30 seconds.

Oh and what...now you hate me that much you want to see Chuck kick my ass Neon? Just cuz I'm the uber-WW player?? :confused:

:D You know I love you.























In a heterosexual, non-romantic way, of course.

[DaddyTorgo]

:D You know I love you.























In a heterosexual, non-romantic way, of course.

much love...in a heterosexual, non-romantic way of course

[PilotMan]

Ryland has just released a database expansion that adds about 150 fighters, and will have two new companies debut during the game. I am playing this almost exclusively now, and have having a really good time.

Adam has been very active with this. I am sure he is trying to get to the final version before he dedicates all of his time to TEW 2008.

[TazFTW]

Anyone else with longer term impressions?

[DaddyTorgo]

Anyone else with longer term impressions?

I like it. But i've been full-time on FM lately so I've kind of let it sink back to the side. Plus I was/am waiting for the real world mods to be fully fleshed out. I wouldn't say I regret the purchase at all though, and I am VERY price-sensitive these days.

[Eilim]

I like it. But i've been full-time on FM lately so I've kind of let it sink back to the side. Plus I was/am waiting for the real world mods to be fully fleshed out. I wouldn't say I regret the purchase at all though, and I am VERY price-sensitive these days.


Pretty much the same here, except substitute Crusader Kings for FM. :) One of my big hopes is Adam will add in the option to save full match breakdowns globally. Would be a big plus for people like me who like to create fictional universes and just watch them unfold.

Might have to start putting some more work into my fictional universe if I can pull myself away from CK long enough.

[Icy]

Pretty much the same here, except substitute Crusader Kings for FM. :) One of my big hopes is Adam will add in the option to save full match breakdowns globally. Would be a big plus for people like me who like to create fictional universes and just watch them unfold.

Might have to start putting some more work into my fictional universe if I can pull myself away from CK long enough.

I have asked a few times for this in GDS forums, but never got an answer. I would love ot be able to see the text reports for all the fights and not only the ones in my organization. That way i can also watch unfold the whole universe, specially for the dynasty i wanted to start with FOFC fighters. Right now there is not much sense in that dynasty if we can only know that fighter A won figther B but not how etc. I really wish that Adam would add that, but the lack of answers probably means he is not considering it at least by now.

The game is not being that fun for me to play solo, there is not much to do besides booking fights and wait for them to happen. TEW is way more deep and i whish this one was that way too, because i preffer MMA to Wrestling.

For a first version this a nice game, but to be deep enough for me i guess it needs a couple of versions more. For example contract negotiations needs to be improved a lot as right now are too basic, just offer something and they say yes or not enough, then repeat raising a bit until they accept.

A good game overall for MMA fans, not strategicaly deep enough imho if you compare it with other sports text sims we use to play here.

[Calis]

Yeah I had a blast with it for a couple weeks, but there's a few things that are making it come up a little short and most of it is still down to some aggravation with the interface for Ryland games. He's done pretty well with adding helpful things, but there are still a lot of little interface things that are frustrating.


It's a good game though, and I imagine I'll fire it up again now, but it didn't hold me as long as I thought it would. I definitely don't regret buying it though, I got my money's worth out of it.

[twothree]

The final 1.2 patch got released which includes over 100 new fighters in the default database. Several changes were made that change the way the AI companies play including their minimum roster sizes and who they attempt to hire. And, depending on the size of your company, may change your playing experience. I haven't played the 1.2 version long enough using a new game started from the beginning with the new database to see if I like the changes or not.

Also added in the patch were modifications to the fighter's stats including how the value for their maximum stats are calculated and how aging influences their stats. And again, I haven't played long enough to see the results. However, I have noticed with the final 1.2 patch that fighters in AI companies now don't just sit on the roster never getting a fight. Before I would always spot a few fighters under contract almost never getting a fight, I haven't noticed this with the new patch.

Edit: I forgot to mention that 2 new companies got added to the default database to debut later into your game. Also, there are five unassigned (as of now) banners and logos in the default database that you can use for your start up company.

[Flasch186]

anyone still playing this? Im surprised it fell off the radar so fast. Only 2 pages.

[DaddyTorgo]

still playing. I think it fell off the map a bit quickly because people are still hard at work on real world mods and there isn't really one out that's "perfect" yet.

I just recently picked it back up and have really started to dig in

[JeffNights]

As a MMA junkie and might I say knowledgeable critic, the problem I had with this game is its fight logic in general and the fact that it was touted as a hardcore sim, which it is not.

I can sum it up in this....Adam announced he was developing it, than asked on GDS boards about MMA, as in the ins and outs of it. You cant go from Being a complete MMA novice than in 4 months have a game out about it. No thanks.

[DaddyTorgo]

As a MMA junkie and might I say knowledgeable critic, the problem I had with this game is its fight logic in general and the fact that it was touted as a hardcore sim, which it is not.

I can sum it up in this....Adam announced he was developing it, than asked on GDS boards about MMA, as in the ins and outs of it. You cant go from Being a complete MMA novice than in 4 months have a game out about it. No thanks.


eh...while I agree with you, I find that it's better than having no game. And it's a start. maybe adam will team with a MMA-junkie for ver2 and we can have a hardcore game on our hands.

I think MMA would be one of the toughest sports to code a sim for though - because it's so fluid and everything

[Calis]

Yep, I agree. I consider myself a pretty hardcore MMA fan and the game just didn't click for me. I don't regret the purchase though as I did play it a bunch for a couple weeks, but I haven't touched it since.

What I saw back then also led me to believe a Real Life sim isn't going to be able to get anywhere near realistic result. I don't think it's the fault of the modders, it just appears that maybe the game doesn't allow that kind of precision. I wasn't happy with the results I saw with the "big" mods. Maybe I'm wrong though and they've figured it out though. I haven't checked.

I'm still looking for something more along the lines of a fusion between a traditional career text sim, and that old No Holds Barred Simulator. Something where I can work as maybe a manager for a fighting camp or something along those lines. Set-up training, give some general advice ala TBCB during fights, etc...

I'll have to give it another shot at some point.

[TLK]

For anyone still playing.... new real world data was released yesterday.

http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=33744 (http://67.19.230.90/%7Earles/forum/showthread.php?t=33744)

[DaddyTorgo]

might have to DL and give it some more playing time - thanks TLK for the headsup

[Flasch186]

hmmmm, not with Civ: Rev coming tomorrow.

[Calis]

I just happened to see that WMMA 2 is scheduled to be released on April 8th with a demo available on April 1st.

I hadn't paid any attention to the development, but browsing through the dev journal has me very excited for this one. I played the first one quite a bit for a month or two and enjoyed it well enough, but it was lacking in several areas.

We're going to have the ability to watch matches as they happen rather than the whole recap, and the ratings are greatly expanded to allow a finer tuning of fighter styles.

Sounds like the way contracts are handled is being redone which is another plus because that was severely lacking as well, and the addition of parent companies and roster movement between them will be fun.

You can also book more than one show in advance which makes life easier for notoriously unorganized people like myself.

Very excited for this one now.

Here's the link for the Developer Journal- WMMA2 Developer's Journal - Grey Dog Software (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37489)

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah i'm cautiously optomistic Calis. Didn't realize 4/8 was the release date - that's good news

[dubb93]

Any word on multiplayer yet? He adds that he has sold this game to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Had a press release on this game just come through..............

World of Mixed Martial Arts 2 Release Date Announced

Phoenix, AZ March 4, 2009 – Grey Dog Software, a Phoenix based developer of sports management simulation software for personal computers, today announces World of Mixed Martial Arts 2 [WMMA2] to be released April 8, 2009. WMMA2 will be available for digital download exclusively through Grey Dog Software.

You are the match maker! Adam Ryland's "World Of Mixed Martial Arts 2" allows you to take control of an MMA company and run it the way you want; amongst other things, you get to decide who to hire, what matches will take place, and who doesn't make the cut! Can you make it to the top of the industry?

WMMA2 includes:

- Highly detailed fighters, with a multitude of statistics covering all major elements of MMA from striking to jiu jitsu
- Advanced play-by-play engine where the player can watch fights unfold in real time via detailed commentary
- In-game web site keeps you up to date on all the happenings around the game world
- Deal with injuries, fight refusals, upsets, money wrangles and more
- High pressure contract negotiations with fighters; will you play it safe or call his bluff
- Automatic archiving keeps track of details on every fight that happens in the game world
- Full detailed and intuitive game editor allows in-depth customization
- And much more

Demo Available:

Beginning April 1, 2009 Grey Dog will offer a fully featured trial version of WMMA2, enabling fans a chance to try out the game before purchase.

To find out more about WMMA2 or to read Adam Ryland's dev journal please visit our forums.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

First screenshots are available......

Grey Dog Software (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/wmma2/index.php?page=news)

[DaddyTorgo]

just peeped through the thread on the forums - lots already saying that the graphics look to have taken a backwards step - but as long as the gameplay is solid that can all be modded so who really cares

[Flasch186]

looks awful.

[Galaril]

looks awful.

Sure does wow. Hope that is not indicative of the other titles being done down the road.

[Neon_Chaos]

Sigh.

The days of text sims being simply text sims are long gone. Many have slowly turned into "tycoon"-like games in design and execution.

[JonInMiddleGA]

looks awful.

Okay, who thought the speech bubbles was a good idea?

That shot looks like something from first gen Nintendo.

[DeToxRox]

Adam had the right idea to try and make things more immersive .. but the execution is .. bad.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah. I don't mind his conception of "I want them to be like radio announcers watching on a monitor and calling it." or whatever...but idk bout that execution.

[Calis]

Yeah that looks pretty corny to say the least. I'm very happy he's added the play by play rather than the summary that was available in the last game but I was really hoping for just a straight line by line deal like Title Bout or the MMA Simulator. I don't think the graphics there add anything at all to the game.

It's not a deal breaker. It'll depend on how the engine pans out, but I'm sure not impressed by it. I'd prefer to see the screen taken up by stats for the fighter or the fight rather than by what is there.

[dubb93]

And the game is suspended due to feedback recieved. Update on the future of the title next week.

hxxp://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39052&page=4

Post 60 from Adam Ryland

Due to the feedback received, I have decided to suspend work on WMMA2 while I decide on where the project should go from here. An update on the status of the game will be given sometime next week.

[DaddyTorgo]

huh. judging from the tone of his reaction to people's comments on the GUI in that thread I wonder if "suspended" = "i'm taking my ball and going home" or if it really means "suspended while i look for someone to do GUI work on it" ?

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh I guess this answers that:

The game is definitely not canceled. The team have poured nine months work into a product that I think contains some of my best work, nothing will prevent it being released.

Further information will be given next week.

[PilotMan]

You know what though. This is the best alternative. If he sticks his head up and releases it anyway he loses a lot of credibility. It is a good sign that he is willing to listen to the masses, and take a critical look at his product, to make it better, before it hits the streets and he really opens himself up.

[DaddyTorgo]

You know what though. This is the best alternative. If he sticks his head up and releases it anyway he loses a lot of credibility. It is a good sign that he is willing to listen to the masses, and take a critical look at his product, to make it better, before it hits the streets and he really opens himself up.

absolutely. i couldn't agree more.

[AlexB]

+1

[Flasch186]

I think, if anything, an MMA game is more open to having LESS graphics and more information, for me anyways. I could see a FOF style interface and feedback from the in game and LOVE it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think, if anything, an MMA game is more open to having LESS graphics and more information, for me anyways.

I thought the suggestion someone made in that thread about having the pbp text appear ala web message board/blog style made perfect sense.

[dubb93]

I thought the suggestion someone made in that thread about having the pbp text appear ala web message board/blog style made perfect sense.

Thats getting awfully close to they way WAMMA did the fight reports thought which was absolutely awful IMO. I don't see why he can't just have the pbp appear as if I was the president of the company watching my fights happen, since afterall I'm the president of the company watching the fights happen.

There have been several free MMA simulators(No Holds Barred, Ultimate MMA Simulator) that sport match reporting pbp that kicks the shit out of anything Ryland has done with his pay MMA simulator's match reporting engine including the two guys in a dungeon with pop up play by play that he showed off in these screens.

They show the two fighters on each side of the pbp and their stats. Then they show the play by play in the middle. The actual fight engines of these games left a little to be disired, but for pure MMA were actually better than WAMMA 1's same fight different fighters. I'm hoping WAMMA 2's fight engine surpasses these games finally, but he sure could use some play time with those games to get an idea for the play by play.

[dubb93]

I'm scared for April 1st at this point. I want this game to be good but it appears Ryland is hiding something. He got feedback that prompted a needed change and now he is taking the I don't need anymore feedback approach instead of seeing if his changes are what people had in mind. :sigh:

March 17th: Status Update

Please note that the game will still be released on the original date of April 1st. Some changes have been made to the game following recent remarks; no decision has been reached on whether new screen shots will be released prior to the launch of the demo.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm scared for April 1st at this point. I want this game to be good but it appears Ryland is hiding something. He got feedback that prompted a needed change and now he is taking the I don't need anymore feedback approach instead of seeing if his changes are what people had in mind. :sigh:

eh...i think at this point we cut the guy some slack. people jumped up his ass (rightfully so) about the GUI - that had to have been a shock to his system. And he's still committed (rightly or wrongly) to the original release date, so his stress level has to be sky-high.

as long as there's still a demo so we can see what the changes are and how the game plays before buying it's his choice whether to release more screenshots (and thus potentially prompt another round of feedback requiring more changes) or just have confidence in his changes. for all we know he may have asked for feedback on it in private.

is it the right decision - we won't know that till after something's been released. but it's his choice to make.

[Deattribution]

I'm scared for April 1st at this point. I want this game to be good but it appears Ryland is hiding something. He got feedback that prompted a needed change and now he is taking the I don't need anymore feedback approach instead of seeing if his changes are what people had in mind. :sigh:

I don't see it that way, he probably just wants to meet the release date, and while he still may release screen shots, he knows whatever he does isn't going to please everyone and doesn't want the screens torn apart when he can't keep redoing them til everyone is happy.

[dubb93]

I don't see it that way, he probably just wants to meet the release date, and while he still may release screen shots, he knows whatever he does isn't going to please everyone and doesn't want the screens torn apart when he can't keep redoing them til everyone is happy.

But was anyone happy with the first batch? Might seem both he and the beta testers are out of touch with the fan base. Seems to me it would make sense to run the new layout by the customer base before the demo gets crapped on(the colors were one of the huge issues and he confirmed that the ugly colors were hardcoded and could not be moded).

[DaddyTorgo]

But was anyone happy with the first batch? Might seem both he and the beta testers are out of touch with the fan base. Seems to me it would make sense to run the new layout by the customer base before the demo gets crapped on(the colors were one of the huge issues and he confirmed that the ugly colors were hardcoded and could not be moded).

well in the end we'll vote with our wallets :D

[Deattribution]

I think the PBP background caught the most flack, the buttons can (and possibly already have been) changed. He definitely did go a little wild with the scheme but I also think that even after the demo is released, if there is enough outcry he'll change what is necessary. He's always supported his games pretty well, long past their sell date.

[Arles]

We did get a ton of feedback and instead of just plowing ahead without any regard for the community - Adam decided to change some things. He's at the point now where a lot of focus is needed on the little things to get the game out and releasing a batch of screenshots causes him to drop what he's doing and respond to a ton of feedback (both good and bad). Now, he could just disregard that but it isn't really his style.

So, I think he wants to make sure and complete his final test plan and not spend the final two weeks being bombarded by user AI questions/feedback. He got the answers he wanted from the first batch and now he wants to keep his focus on making the changes and improving the game before release.

[Flasch186]

Im nervous

[DaddyTorgo]

We did get a ton of feedback and instead of just plowing ahead without any regard for the community - Adam decided to change some things. He's at the point now where a lot of focus is needed on the little things to get the game out and releasing a batch of screenshots causes him to drop what he's doing and respond to a ton of feedback (both good and bad). Now, he could just disregard that but it isn't really his style.

So, I think he wants to make sure and complete his final test plan and not spend the final two weeks being bombarded by user AI questions/feedback. He got the answers he wanted from the first batch and now he wants to keep his focus on making the changes and improving the game before release.

:thumbsup:

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sincere props to Arlie for responding to today's comments, no matter how things turn out with the game that's a quality move on his part.

That said, I think I'd be in Flasch's camp on this one re: being nervous. Maybe it's just past experience on (non-Greydog) games but the situation has my Spidey senses tingling a little bit. But that might be because it's probably been too long since I had a drink or something like that.

[dubb93]

WAMMA 2 demo has been released. Lets get some impressions in here.

[DaddyTorgo]

great. will have to check it out after work today!

[dubb93]

It is just a demo but it is getting a very mixed review on the greydog boards. From what I have read I would say it is getting more negative than postive reviews but that is probably just because the people giving the negative reviews are the more vocal ones on the board.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Press release..........

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

World of Mixed Martial Arts 2 Demo Released

Phoenix, AZ April 1, 2009 - Grey Dog Software, a developer of sports management simulation software for the PC, today releases a limited time demo of World of Mixed Martial Arts 2. Grey Dog’s demo release of WMMA2 is considered both a trial version for fans as well as an opportunity for public beta. Starting today, players will be able to download and try out the entire game and be permitted to continuously repeat one month of game time.

WMMA2 is scheduled to be available for purchase beginning April 8, 2009 exclusively through Grey Dog Software.

World of Mixed Martial Arts 2 is a PC-based management simulator set in the world of Mixed Martial Arts. You are the match maker! Adam Ryland's, World Of Mixed Martial Arts 2 allows you to take control of an MMA company and run it the way you want; amongst other things, you get to decide who to hire, what matches will take place, and who doesn't make the cut! Can you make it to the top of the industry?

For more information on World of Mixed Martial Arts 2 please visit Grey Dog’s official website at Grey Dog Software (http://www.greydogsoftware.com). Or, to check out WMMA2’s developer journal, visit Grey Dog’s forums at Grey Dog Software - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/).

About Grey Dog Software

Grey Dog Software, LLC an Arizona based, privately-held company, is a leading developer of sports management simulations for the PC. Grey Dog Software strives to provide ground-breaking features, enormous depth, and endless replayability with each game.

[twothree]

While there are a few things I don't like, they are all minor compared to the major new additions that I like. My initial impressions are in the "First thoughts on the WMMA 2 demo" thread, so I won't repeat them here.

I like the fact that there is already a patch for the demo. And, it fixes the only problem I encounter which was a semifinal match of a tournament ending in a draw. I don't think a patch for the beta/demo was needed when the game will be released in a week, but it shows me that the game will be supported with the established high standards for a Adam Ryland game.

I also like the fact that there is now a "WMMA 2 Demo Developer FAQs" explaining the reasoning behind some of the design decisions for WMMA 2. I won't miss not having the business controls in the game, since I almost never touched them. And, we are given the tools (the editor) to recreate the original WMMA Cornellverse and it's history in WMMA 2 if we want. So, a "new" Cornellverse with no history is not a problem for me. And, WMMA 2 is just different enough from the original WMMA that I can see myself continuing to play the original WMMA from time to time.

I will be buying the game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I like the fact that there is already a patch for the demo. And, it fixes the only problem I encounter which was a semifinal match of a tournament ending in a draw. I don't think a patch for the beta/demo was needed when the game will be released in a week, but it shows me that the game will be supported with the established high standards for a Adam Ryland game.

This is also a public beta. I'd expect daily patches as they address some of the issues that the users find.

[dubb93]

I will say I am not a fan of the way the match reports are given at all. I know it was too late for a redesign completely away from the two guys in a dungeon, however the compromise seems really poorly done to me. I think I like the play by play(still undecided at this point), but the presentation seems like something I would expect out of a freeware game.

[Capital]

I'm guessing the impressions thread for WMMA2 is not on this site yet? If so, I'm a bit surprised - it's usually a race.

[dubb93]

For those at work and those wondering what the new play by play system looks like without downloading the game here is a fight from my latest card I booked with GAMMA.

Another match is about to begin; 'The Karate Kid' Carl Chenoweth will take on
The Diamondback' Cory Brewer in the GAMMA Lightweight division.

Round one begins!

Brewer keeps out of range, assessing the situation.

Chenoweth presses in closer to attack.

Chenoweth counters a missed punch with a series of quick punches.

Chenoweth avoids a kick to the leg and hits a flurry of quick punches to sting Brewer.

Chenoweth hits Brewer with a flurry of jabs and straight punches.

Brewer fires off a looping punch, but Chenoweth avoids it.

Chenoweth doesn't let Brewer settle, stepping in closer to impose himself.

Chenoweth stings Brewer with a series of quick punches.

We pass the halfway mark of this round.

A quick one-two combination from Brewer only finds gloves.

Chenoweth doesn't let Brewer settle, stepping in closer to impose himself.

Chenoweth hits a swift leg kick on Brewer.

Chenoweth waits for a flurry of punches to stop, then hits a kick to the ribs.

Chenoweth hits a jab.

Chenoweth counters a wayward low kick with a nice sequence of jabs.

We move into the final sixty seconds of this round.

A couple of quick punches are used to set up a takedown attempt from
Chenoweth.

Chenoweth doesn't get the takedown, Brewer saw it coming and was equal to
it.

Chenoweth counters a jab with a punch.

Round one ends as time expires.

Close, but that round goes to Chenoweth, 10-9 on my card.

There's the bell for the start of the round!

Brewer gets caught with a series of quick punches and has to back off.

Brewer looks like he might be trying to get in close and wrestle with Chenoweth.

Chenoweth uses his strikes to stop Brewer from getting close enough to grapple.

Chenoweth uses a jab to sting Brewer.

A high kick from Chenoweth hits Brewer, momentarily putting him on rubbery legs!

Chenoweth avoids a leg kick and scores with a kick to the ribs.

Chenoweth scores with a series of quick punches.

We've now passed the halfway mark in this round.

Chenoweth moves in quickly after a wayward punch and hits a sharp body kick.

Chenoweth scores with a series of quick punches.

Chenoweth steps in and unloads with a nice sequence of jabs.

Chenoweth comes in quick and hits a quick series of punches.

We're into the final minute of the round.

Chenoweth counters a wayward low kick with a nice sequence of jabs.

Chenoweth comes in quick and hits a quick series of punches.

Round two is brought to an end as time runs out.

That was pretty dominant by Chenoweth, a 10-8 round on my score card.

There's the bell for the start of the round!

Chenoweth keeps Brewer from advancing with a crisp jab.

Brewer uses a right hook, but misses.

Chenoweth presses in closer to attack.

Chenoweth steps in and unloads with a nice sequence of jabs.

Chenoweth comes in quick and hits a quick series of punches.

Chenoweth waits for a flurry of punches to stop, then hits a sequence of quick punches.

Chenoweth counters a flurry of punches by hitting a series of quick punches.

We move into the second half of this round.

A high kick from Chenoweth hits Brewer, momentarily putting him on rubbery legs!

Chenoweth stings Brewer with a series of quick punches.

Chenoweth counters a flurry of punches with a body kick

Chenoweth avoids a punch and scores with a flurry of jabs and straight
punches.


We move into the final sixty seconds of this round.

Chenoweth hits a kick to the body.

Chenoweth scores with a body kick

The time expires on round three, and that is the end of the fight.

Chenoweth takes that round easily by 10-8 on my score card.

The official scores are being reported now.

Judge #1 scores the match as 30-25 to Chenoweth.

Judge #2: 30-25 Chenoweth.

Judge #3: 30-25 Chenoweth.

Making 'The Karate Kid' Carl Chenoweth the winner by unanimous decision!

Official Result: 'The Karate Kid' Carl Chenoweth defeats 'The Diamondback' Cory Brewer (Unanimous Decision in 5:00 of round 3). The match was rated as being Great.

[sabotai]

Quick question: Do you have to sit through the play-by-play for each match or can you just skip that part and go right to the results?

[dubb93]

Quick question: Do you have to sit through the play-by-play for each match or can you just skip that part and go right to the results?

You can skip it. From what I can tell it has to be skipped 1 fight at a time however.

[sabotai]

You can skip it. From what I can tell it has to be skipped 1 fight at a time however.

That's cool. I'll have to check out the demo. I liked the original but didn't play it much.

[Capital]

I can certainly see how that play-by-play would get repetitive for me quickly.

[Flasch186]

Im thinking, I'll save my money on this and instead get the UFC game coming to PS3. I saw and ad for it at the local gamespot and I got goosebumps.

[molson]

I can certainly see how that play-by-play would get repetitive for me quickly.

My eyes are glazing over it just trying to read it for the first time.

I wish there was a way to sum up a fight in maybe 2-3 sentences.

[dubb93]

From what I can tell the actual fight engine itself is much better in WAMMA 2 than it was in WAMMA.

[jbergey22]

My eyes are glazing over it just trying to read it for the first time.

I wish there was a way to sum up a fight in maybe 2-3 sentences.


That was WMMA1 but a lot of people wanted it changed so now it is like this.

[Calis]

Only got a chance to play for a few minutes tonight but immediate impressions weren't astounding.

Hate to see the meeting screen go. It was nice to have the option to quickly fill up a card with certain level of matches, but it sounds like maybe the importance of order has been lessened in this version.

It does seem to move a little snappier, but that might also be because I had got used to the real world mods and haven't used the default much smaller database in a long time.

[Calis]

Game has been released.

I haven't got a chance to play the demo more to see if it's worth the upgrade, but I'm hoping to get a chance to run through it more tomorrow.

Anyone have any thoughts on the demo(or full release)? I'm a sucker for MMA and really wanted the line by line style match engine so I imagine I'll buy it simply for that.

[Flasch186]

im waiting on some feedback to see if it's worth $35!! or else I can wait it out until UFC comes out on my Blu-Ray player.

[dubb93]

Game has been released.

I haven't got a chance to play the demo more to see if it's worth the upgrade, but I'm hoping to get a chance to run through it more tomorrow.

Anyone have any thoughts on the demo(or full release)? I'm a sucker for MMA and really wanted the line by line style match engine so I imagine I'll buy it simply for that.

As a fight simulator it is a huge step forward(although still far from perfect.) As a game I think the jury is still out depending on long term play mechanics.

[Icy]

As a fight simulator it is a huge step forward(although still far from perfect.) As a game I think the jury is still out depending on long term play mechanics.

That is the issue i have with Adam games. The fight engines are great, but i don't really know how to enjoy them as games instead of simulators.

It's the same problem i have with Title Bout Championship Boxing, great sim but i don't know how to enjoy playing it. I guess it requires a big imagination to feel part of the universe and enjoy watching it developing.

I guess my problem is that i'm more interested on the economical/running company side instead of on the matches side. I should read some dynasties to see how is other people playing and enjoying those games.

[jbergey22]

That is the issue i have with Adam games. The fight engines are great, but i don't really know how to enjoy them as games instead of simulators.

It's the same problem i have with Title Bout Championship Boxing, great sim but i don't know how to enjoy playing it. I guess it requires a big imagination to feel part of the universe and enjoy watching it developing.

I guess my problem is that i'm more interested on the economical/running company side instead of on the matches side. I should read some dynasties to see how is other people playing and enjoying those games.


This part kind of confuses me Icy as this is what Adams games are known for unless you are meaning something different than how this is explained. In Adams games you try to build up stars and can run your business different ways as long as you are making money. I can see what you mean with TBCB however as that is difficult to just start from scratch and start playing as you really dont have any goals to achieve or anything really.

[Flasch186]

well any impressions?

[DaddyTorgo]

i haven't even DLed the demo yet. life got busy.

[NevStar]

Very clicky (like most of Adam's games).

Too painful to find potential stars to run a startup company, at least until we get some better search utilities. click View Profile. click Scout. Charisma & Excitement aren't high enough. Close. Close. Go to next fighter. Repeat.

Match engine is definately improved, but I miss the quick summary of the old game. Again, matches are "too clicky."

But a decent game is in there somewhere.

Negotiations (both with fighters & TV companies) are much improved. I've managed to sign fighters for half of what they were asking for modifying other options (exclusivity, win bonus, performance bonus, main event bonus, etc). In old versions, they hardly ever accepted any salary but their asking price.

[Icy]

This part kind of confuses me Icy as this is what Adams games are known for unless you are meaning something different than how this is explained. In Adams games you try to build up stars and can run your business different ways as long as you are making money. I can see what you mean with TBCB however as that is difficult to just start from scratch and start playing as you really dont have any goals to achieve or anything really.

For what i have been reading (i have not purchased the new game) the economic part has been simplified, so it seems more of a booking fights game than running an MMA company as owner.

I purchased the first version and barely played it as i found I ended just booking guys, watching the results and fast simming as i couldn't really find a way to actually "play" the game. If the economic part has been simplified then i'll find even less things to do.

While in the wrestling game you have tons of options just related to booking because the nature of the sport/spectacle, in MMA you just decide who to match against who and then watch the fight and who wins/lose, then repeat and sign some new fighters in between (i know it's not exactly that way, but just how i feel).

If i'm the company owner, then besides signing fighters and booking fights, i would enjoy dealing with all the economic decissions, TV deals, merchandishing, man management, etc. I guess I was expecting an expansion of the previous version as owner, as the fights engine was pretty good already.

One game i could really enjoy is a game like wrestling spirit but MMA related, where i'm the fighter, or at least a game where i coach/manage the fighters careers, same about a boxing sim.

But again i need to read a few dynasties once are written to get a better idea of how to enjoy playing it as i really want to.

[Calis]

Yeah I look at WMMA(The first as I haven't played the 2nd yet) as more of a What If simulator rather than a "game" per se. The game is watching the guys progress through their career, and building up to these dream matches and the pay off should be the fight itself.

I found the money,advertising, sponsor to be almost inconsequential to the first game. I had no qualms about just boosting my money through the roof and forgetting it all together. I never felt like I was cheating because the success of the company was outside the realm of what I was playing.

I think it's moved even further towards that so you might have a tough time playing this how you want to.

Sign me up for the game where you run a camp or manage a fighter. I don't want a Wrestling Spirit style game, but I want to build facilities, set training, pick fighters, pick gameplans, and then have the fights be Title Bout style with more options between rounds for me to try different strategies and depending on the fighter they'll listen or they won't. I'd be all over that style of game.

I have a few days off coming up so I'll almost certainly end up buying WMMA2, but I'm not sure where my expectations are right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah I look at WMMA(The first as I haven't played the 2nd yet) as more of a What If simulator rather than a "game" per se. The game is watching the guys progress through their career, and building up to these dream matches and the pay off should be the fight itself.

I found the money,advertising, sponsor to be almost inconsequential to the first game. I had no qualms about just boosting my money through the roof and forgetting it all together. I never felt like I was cheating because the success of the company was outside the realm of what I was playing.

I think it's moved even further towards that so you might have a tough time playing this how you want to.

Sign me up for the game where you run a camp or manage a fighter. I don't want a Wrestling Spirit style game, but I want to build facilities, set training, pick fighters, pick gameplans, and then have the fights be Title Bout style with more options between rounds for me to try different strategies and depending on the fighter they'll listen or they won't. I'd be all over that style of game.

I have a few days off coming up so I'll almost certainly end up buying WMMA2, but I'm not sure where my expectations are right now.

I think we want the same game.

[jbergey22]

For what i have been reading (i have not purchased the new game) the economic part has been simplified, so it seems more of a booking fights game than running an MMA company as owner.

I purchased the first version and barely played it as i found I ended just booking guys, watching the results and fast simming as i couldn't really find a way to actually "play" the game. If the economic part has been simplified then i'll find even less things to do.

While in the wrestling game you have tons of options just related to booking because the nature of the sport/spectacle, in MMA you just decide who to match against who and then watch the fight and who wins/lose, then repeat and sign some new fighters in between (i know it's not exactly that way, but just how i feel).

If i'm the company owner, then besides signing fighters and booking fights, i would enjoy dealing with all the economic decissions, TV deals, merchandishing, man management, etc. I guess I was expecting an expansion of the previous version as owner, as the fights engine was pretty good already.

One game i could really enjoy is a game like wrestling spirit but MMA related, where i'm the fighter, or at least a game where i coach/manage the fighters careers, same about a boxing sim.

But again i need to read a few dynasties once are written to get a better idea of how to enjoy playing it as i really want to.

OK I understand. He said he went further away from the business aspect in this version due to people wanting it that way. I have only tried the demo so Im not sure how far away he has actually gone. I also bought the first one and seldom played it I do like TEW so I was basing my knowledge on the subject based off that.

[Calis]

I ended up buying this last night and have had a chance to play through about 6 cards as GAMMA which is the UFC equivalent. I'm pretty pleased with it overall. There's been nothing glaring as a change that annoys me, and there are several changes I'm loving. If I had one complaint it would be the belt system when you look at scouting. Instead of giving a grade rating or score, you have colored belts displaying their skill and it makes it overly complicated to quickly assess someone's skills.

The top thing that sticks out to me and may not seem overly important is the ability to book several shows in advance. I'm notoriously unorganized about this, so this option is a lifesaver for me. I always keep my main events and co-main events booked out for 3 shows in advance, and then try and rotate the remaining fights between the three so I end up with relatively even cards. It's a nice feature.

I like the new match system. I've actually got into several matches and really enjoyed reading through the text. I think there's a lot of room for improvement here, and I'd still like to see something more along the lines of the old MMA Simulator when you get to matches, but this is a big step-up from last years. I find I'm definitely getting a better feel for the fighters and their skills through the fights here.

I love the fact that you have more freedom to throw matches on a card without having to micromanage the order so much apart from your two headlining fights. In the past game you seem to really be punished if they weren't in a constant buildup, but here your success is determined more by the hype surrounding the card as it should be, and the general level of the fights. I've managed to have some cards rated very high that had dud main events.

They removed the booking helper screen(whatever you call it), where in the first game you could pop that open and see a list of all possible matchups and what sort of hype they had, so you could book accordingly. That's gone, which isn't a huge deal because of the change in the system, but I still find a little annoying. There is now a button for fan feedback where you can pick two fighters and then click on this button to see the interest. I wish this would be displayed automatically when there are two fighters selected. It's needlessly clicky and I find myself checking this with every single fight. It'd be nice to have it show on the same screen without a click so you can quickly scroll through your options and see what people like.

I'm happy with the game. It's not a huge step from the last one. If you didn't like the first you will probably not like this one, but I think he's corrected a few of the issues and it seems pretty solid. It is still an Adam Ryland game, so there is a lot of clicking, and some information that is buried too deep to ever really be useful.

This is one sim where I'm more inclined to enjoy the real world mods. I have a hard time keeping all the fictional characters straight, but I think I'll find myself more into the matches and following things more closely when some of the real mods get released. I think with the new match system and stats we'll be able to see a lot more realistic depictions of fighters so hopefully it'll be less insane with upsets.

[AlexB]

...needlessly clicky...

If Adam ever breaks away rfom GDS and sets up his own company, this should be it's name!!!

WMMA 2 is a good game on first appearances - I'm getting a little worried about running out of potential headline fighters (after 4 cards my BCF has risen from 40% regional to 64% regional and my fighters are not keeping up), but other than that it's OK.

As Calis says, there's a lot of information that is in the game that really is a pain in the arse to get to, and not linked when you think it would be (e.g. you'd like to think the contract screen would be available from the negotiatons screen, especially when you can't leave the latter and go back to it), but it's OK.

If he ever made his games with any degree of common sense in GUI he would make a fortune. Unfortunately after this number of releases it's not going to change, and he doesn't seem to take opinion that doesn't match his own very well, which is his right I guess.

[NevStar]

WMMA 2 is a good game on first appearances - I'm getting a little worried about running out of potential headline fighters (after 4 cards my BCF has risen from 40% regional to 64% regional and my fighters are not keeping up), but other than that it's OK.

Apparently, Temporary Patch 3 tries to address this by raising the rate at which fighters gain popularity.

[Flasch186]

temporary? patch?

isnt that an oxymoron or am i missing something? which may be an oxymoron too.

[NevStar]

Latest Temporary Patch (April 9th (III)) - Grey Dog Software (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39921)

I dunno the fancy tube language that's used by you computer intarweb people.

[Calis]

I think it's a Quickfix. He's not putting out a full patch, but wants to release a quickfix for this issue.

Just a weird phrasing of it.

I started with a bigger organization so I haven't ran into the problems mentioned yet. It does seem like fighters are taking longer between fights, because I'm about 6 months in and really scrambling to put anything decent on once a month, let alone add a TV show or something else to the mix.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay I'm still in the booking process, but WTF WTF WTF

What is with these cheesy-looking belts as a scouting report? Fuck that. Seriously. Fuck that. It's fucking convoluted and irritating. Why are you making the game more difficult for me to understand? LAME

[SirFozzie]

There's already a mod out for that, converting it to a letter grade, DT.

I can understand it, and it's an attempt to make it somewhat less spreadsheety.

[DaddyTorgo]

and why not give me options to search for fighters by style? what if i want to hire more sambo guys? I'm supposed to scroll through everybody?? fuck that

[DaddyTorgo]

There's already a mod out for that, converting it to a letter grade, DT.

I can understand it, and it's an attempt to make it somewhat less spreadsheety.

yay mods

not sure how much of a fan of the new pbp i am. idk bout this game - i want to like it but idk

[SirFozzie]

It's pretty fun.. but.. you still don't have the immersion that I was fully looking for, for some reason. You sometimes don't get the feeling that you're in a real world, the way you do with FM or TEW..


Maybe the following:

Every so often, get an email from your fighters suggesting fights they want (if they dislike someone, for example)..

or brief canned lines from fighters saying what they plan to do in a fight, for example.

[AlexB]

Searching for fighters is a chore, but other than that I have to say I really like the game now it has been patched to auto pbp and a few other niggles have been sorted. I can even cope with the clicking other than in the searching.

If the search was more friendly, I would have exactly zero complaints about this game right now.

[dubb93]

My biggest issue is that even with the "fix" to overness it doesn't seem to be working as intended. I think the issue isn't with fighter overness themselves, although I think that is problem. I have had one fighter fight 4 fights for my mid level international promotion and he is still only high level regional. He won every fight and my promotion rankings have him as the #1 in his weight class in my company and number 2 in the world.

I think the issue lies more with how wildly promotion overness swings are. I've seen huge drops and gains off just one show. I don't think one show should be doing anymore than +/- 5% overness tops IMHO. I've seen drops and gains of 20+ points off single shows. I think that is where the problem is.

[DaddyTorgo]

what was the verdict on this game - did it get better?

[BYU 14]

I have to give it two thumbs up. I like the challenge that comes with balancing fighter overness with your promotion popularity. It forces you to be really careful booking and also stay after fresh talent as you grow.

If you manage your finances well early, you can build enough cash reserve to sign fighters that will keep up with your popularity. I am continuing to enjoy this game a ton!

[dubb93]

I'm bumping this to point out that some exciting mods have either recently come out or are in the home stretch of development for this game and I think that some people that have put the game down may want to come back and check these mods out.

hxxp://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61420

The above link goes to Dawn of MMA which is a mod set in 1993 a couple of months before UFC 1. Companies/TV stations/PPV characters/fighters all debut when you would expect them up to up to 2009. The only issue is with fight camps, however you can read the thread for ideas and/or rationale behind the camps. Myself I added the Lion's Den to be open at the onset of the game and used wikipedia/google to research all the fight camps and set them to open as close to when they really did. If I couldn't find any information I just set them to random.

The other mod link is:

hxxp://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60746

The link is to As Real As It Gets. It is a very similar mod that starts in 1993 and has yet to come out. I would say it is the "bigger" mod as it has been in known development for a very long time at this point. They expect the mod to be out within the next couple of weeks as they are in the testing/beta phase ATM.

So go grab Dawn of MMA and give it a test run until As Real As It Gets drops.

[DaddyTorgo]

awesome - thanks dubber!

[Calis]

Wow that mod sounds awesome. Oddly just in the past week I've gone back to the game and tried out some of the real world mods(believe I'm using Tap or Snap) and I've enjoyed it a good deal. This version definitely lends itself better to representing real fighters than the first did. I haven't seen anything I'd consider crazier than we see happen in real life, and the results are usually relatively reasonable or I've just lowered my expectations a lot.

Getting the chance to go back and see these fighters evolve sounds like a blast. I will definitely be checking this out tonight.

Is there a photo pack for the mod available as well?

Really I think WMMA2 is a pretty solid game, my major issues are just general gripes with Ryland and his UI's. If it wasn't such a chore to play it would be one of my favorite sport sims.

[dubb93]

Is there a photo pack for the mod available as well?


Sadly no. I'm not sure if the unofficial packs will work with the mod or not, although I'm sure if it does there will be fighters that won't have pics, especially in As Real As It Gets and the 4500 fighters in that mod.

[Calis]

Yes, that would be another monster undertaking. I'm actually surprised how much difference the pictures make with regards to immersion and general enjoyment of the game.

I imagine the names are equal on enough of the fighters that the general facepacks could work to some extent and we can edit the other major players ourselves as needed/wanted.

Man those first few years could be pretty slow going waiting for events and such to roll around. I've been spoiled playing the current rosters where I can run an event every 2-3 weeks or so.

Can't wait to see if I can make my Severn/Shamrock 2 match even more hideous than the real one!

[dubb93]

Just had the event of my early UFC. I've been running events as they were really ran in the UFC time wise, not fighter wise so when it came time for Ultimate Ultimate 1995 in December 1995 I was about to run my 8th event. I decided that the event would feature fighters who had either won a tournament, or been a runner up in a tournament to this point making it my biggest show ever. The players:

Bas Rutten 6-0-0
*Current UFC SuperFight Champion
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 4

David "Tank" Abbott 3-1-0
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 6

"The King of the Streets" Marco Ruas 3-0-0
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 7

Oleg Taktarov 5-3-0
*Former UFC SuperFight Champion
*Winner of the Tournament at UFC 3

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 2-2-0
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 6

Dave Beneteau 2-1-0
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 7

Ken Shamrock 5-3-0
*Considered the #1 contender for the UFC SuperFight Championship
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 1
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 2

So there are 7, my plan was to add Teila Tuli the winner of UFC 1, however as an exclusive fighter for Extreme Fighting he wouldn't negotiate with me, neither would Royce Grace the winner of UFC 2, so I was out of options as far as previous winners/runner-ups went, so I decide to spend some money and bring in Rickson Gracie, considered the greatest living Gracie. Rickson would be making his debut in the UFC. Random.org determined the brackets. The fights would have 15 minute time limts as was standard for non-title fights.

Bas Rutten defeats Ken Shamrock by KO at 14:51

Dave Beneteau defeats Tsuyoshi Kohsaka by unanimous decision

David "Tank" Abbott defeats Oleg Takatarov by unanimous decision

Rickson Gracie defeats Marco Ruas by submission at 3:31

Rd. 2

Bas Rutten defeats Dave Beneteau by unanimous decision

Rickson Gracie defeats David "Tank" Abbott by submission at 7:09

And the finals were set to be the biggest fight in UFC history by far. The striker with the great takedown defense in Bas Rutten was set to take on the greatest living BJJ practitioner in the world.

Less than a minute into the fight Bas drops Rickson with a huge right cross and mounts him to go for the finish, however, Rickson digs deep and fights off the onslaught. Bas attempts to stand up, however he is now sucked into the BJJ of Rickson who won't let him up. Rickson ends up getting a sweep and eventually finishes with a Kimura at 3:38.

The fight wins Main Event of the year and now I'm at a cross roads as I lost my ass on the event(mainly due to Rickson's huge salary) but I think the world deserves to see Rickson vs. Bas II for the title.

[DaddyTorgo]

awesome

they absolutely do

[Calis]

Played through a couple cards with that Dawn data set. It is an impressive amount of work. I'm noticing some oddities that I think may boil down to the way the WMMA engine works. I'm seeing way too long of fights. I imagine he had to diminish the stopping power of the early fighters so they would be phased out by the more rounded fighters more accurately, but it makes for some funky matches to start.

I just had Royce Gracie lose a 60 minute decision to Telie Tula. I'm not sure he could stay standing that long, but to be fair it was 60 minutes of Tula sandwiching him against the cage. I'm having a lot of fights go 45+ minutes and a fair amount ending in submissions.

Understandable though as the game wasn't meant to portray this level of MMA, and I imagine this really shapes up more as you get into the late 90's, early 00's. Still having fun setting up the matches.

To anyone curious in my game Shamrock won the 1st UFC over Royce via a 60 minute decision, and Jason Delucia won the 2nd event by submitting Patrick Smith in about 9 minutes. I plan on setting up Shamrock vs. Delucia at UFC 3 for the Superfight title, and then I'm not sure if I'll have tourneys be a #1 contender decider or work on setting up a version a Tournament of Champions.

So it seems like you have to be willing to deal with warts, but I think I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of this anyway.

[dubb93]

Played through a couple cards with that Dawn data set. It is an impressive amount of work. I'm noticing some oddities that I think may boil down to the way the WMMA engine works. I'm seeing way too long of fights. I imagine he had to diminish the stopping power of the early fighters so they would be phased out by the more rounded fighters more accurately, but it makes for some funky matches to start.

I just had Royce Gracie lose a 60 minute decision to Telie Tula. I'm not sure he could stay standing that long, but to be fair it was 60 minutes of Tula sandwiching him against the cage. I'm having a lot of fights go 45+ minutes and a fair amount ending in submissions.

Understandable though as the game wasn't meant to portray this level of MMA, and I imagine this really shapes up more as you get into the late 90's, early 00's. Still having fun setting up the matches.

To anyone curious in my game Shamrock won the 1st UFC over Royce via a 60 minute decision, and Jason Delucia won the 2nd event by submitting Patrick Smith in about 9 minutes. I plan on setting up Shamrock vs. Delucia at UFC 3 for the Superfight title, and then I'm not sure if I'll have tourneys be a #1 contender decider or work on setting up a version a Tournament of Champions.

So it seems like you have to be willing to deal with warts, but I think I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of this anyway.

He said that if he gave the starting fighters the ability to end fights that they would have too much staying power. Here is his quote from the thread. The quote is in reference to the relative lack of KO power in the starting fighters even though back then most fights ended by a quick KO.

The problem there is that they stay relevant in the sport for longer than they should. I'd rather have a more enjoyable later game at the expense of draws in the opening years.

Also it has been said that the giants of the early year, IE 400lb+ fighters fight better than they have any right to even though they have minimal stats. The reason for that is the game engine itself sees the size and weight difference between the two fighters and makes the huge fighter better.

[dubb93]

Rutten vs. Gracie II

It's time for the main event of the evening! 'El Guapo' Bas Rutten takes on Rickson Gracie in the UFC Openweight division.

This contest is for the UFC Superfight title.

The fight begins!

Rutten avoids a flurry of punches.

Rutten fires off a looping punch, but Rickson avoids it.

Rickson quickly gets in closer, looking to attack.

Rickson comes in with a couple of jabs, using them as cover so that he can shoot in.

Rickson is stopped by a good sprawl, and is pulled down to the ground in a loose front facelock until he is on his knees.

Rutten looks to unload with some big punches, but Rickson gets back to his feet before too many land.

Rutten steps back to avoid a jab.

Rutten avoids a flurry of punches.

Rickson tries for a series of strikes but Rutten moves out of range.

Rutten switches stances, throws a speculative punch, then switches right back again.

Not letting Rutten settle at all, Rickson comes in closer.

Rickson throws a couple of jabs as a set up, then shoots in for a takedown.

Rutten attempts to avoid Rickson as he shoots in.

The takedown doesn't work, Rutten saw it coming and got out of range.

Both fighters fire off strikes, neither produces any significant damage.

Rutten counters a wayward jab with a flurry of quick punches.

Rickson tries for a series of strikes but Rutten moves out of range.

Rutten avoids a straight right and hits a flurry of small strikes.

Rutten counters a jab by hitting a sharp body kick.

Rickson throws a couple of jabs, then chooses to shoot in on Rutten.

Rickson can't get the takedown, Rutten defended it well.

Rutten hits a barrage of big punches on Rickson, trapping him against the cage!

The referee pulls Rutten away, stopping the match!

Bas Rutten takes the victory by way of TKO!

Official Result: 'El Guapo' Bas Rutten defeats Rickson Gracie (TKO in 7:18 of round 1). The match was rated as being Good.

[dubb93]

As the data plays out a little bit here is the world pound for pound rankings for January 1997. These are according to the in game web site feature in my current save game.

1. Bas Rutten (10-1-0)
2. Rickson Gracie (6-1-0)
3. Ken Shamrock (11-4-0)
4. Mark Coleman (5-0-0)
5. Gary Goodridge (5-2-0)
6. Royce Gracie (10-4-0)
7. Akihiro Gono (3-0-0)
8. Dave Beneteau (4-2-0)
9. Jon Hess (7-4-0)
10. Oleg Taktarov (8-5-0)

Ken Shamrock has been improving by leaps and bounds over the last year. He's gone from a guy that was always the second best to a guy who will be the unquestioned pound for pound king by the end of 1997 unless someone else starts to improve across ALL stats. Shamrock went from an average wrestler/submission fighter to a guy that has trained his way to equal with Bas in the stand up stats, even better than Mark Coleman in the wrestling stats and even better than Royce Gracie in the submission stats. Needless to say he is on a huge winning streak going 6-0-0 in 1996. The only thing that can stop him is the debut of Randy Couture.

[Calis]

Glad to see Bas get the win over Rickson!

I played quite a bit last night and ended up veering quite a bit from history running cards pretty frequently and pretty quickly splitting into two weight classes. I also stopped doing the tourney format after about 6 events, only occassionally throwing a 4 man tourney together for newcomers or to quickly build up one of my debuting stars.

I wanted a chance to build up more stars before Pride debuts so I added the 2nd weight class. Royce was dominant in the lightweight division, and this gave us a chance to spotlight some other guys. The Heavyweight belt has been passed around a bit with Shamrock initially holding it, and then being injured for about a year and Bas ended up taking over.

Renzo Gracie was stuck in a weird spot demolishing everyone at lightweight, but a fight with a blood relative was out of the question so he ended up moving to Heavyweight where I gave him an immediate title shot. He ended up winning a really great match against Bas after nearly getting KO'ed several times. This left me with 2 Gracie champs, but that didn't last long as Murilo Bustamante ended up beating Royce in a grueling grappling match.

Dan Severn is on a tear having not lost yet and I think he is ready for a title shot. I think he will face Renzo next for the title. Shamrock is back now, and will get a title shot after a tune-up match.

I'm bringing Frank Shamrock along in the lightweight division. He is 4-0 now and he will probably be getting a shot soon(maybe immediately) as Bustamante doesn't have another clear fight.

I'm doing a lot of movement between weight classes also and depending on how Renzo/Royce fair we could end up seeing Renzo move back down to lightweight or leaving the company all together as his contract demands are skyrocketing. He has become the face of the UFC.

I never signed Rickson. I couldn't justify the costs. I'm losing money every card still, but am about to go into the positive I think. When I'm paying my guys $200 a fight for an 8 fight contract I couldn't swing for his $7500 per request. Now that a lot of my stars are through the initial contracts I have some tough decisions to make.

[Flasch186]

FWIW IMO the game definitely is missing 'flavor'. It feels like a glorified database to me.

[dubb93]

I'm actually to two weightclasses now myself. While my Middleweight (199lbs and under) doesn't have a face quite yet, Ken Shamrock is without a doubt the face of the MMA world and my Heavyweight champion. He absolutely destroyed Bas savagely in a fight that left no room for a rematch.

In my Middleweight division Vitor made his debut and cruised through the Middleweight tournament claiming the title, but lost his first defense by KO Igor Vovchanchyn.

Randy Couture has also debuted and he is undefeated in his UFC so far and on the world map as the #9 pound of pound in the world. Only a matter of time before he gets a shot at Shamrock in what should be my biggest fight since Bas vs. Rickson.

[Calis]

I can agree with that. It definitely is a game where you have to create your own goals. The financial aspect of it is minimal at best, so playing to try and be the top or the like is a pretty big letdown.

The way I enjoy it is picking certain fighters to "groom" and try to setup matches to develop them and make them stars. The rest is almost just sitting back and watching it unfold.

It is much more a Joe Silva simulator than a Dana/Lorenzo sim for instance.

I'd love to see someone else take a crack at an MMA sim and as I've said in the past I really want a lower level one where you maybe run a training camp. Picking guys, hiring coaches, setting up fights, planning training, corner advice, that stuff.

[Flasch186]

Honestly, the way it is now, Id prefer a FOF/TCY approach to the game since at least the form of the spreadsheet is more digestable than the glorified spread it is now with 'flavor' that just simply gets in the way IMO. It either needed to go fully one way (ie. FM) or the other (ie. TCY). Right now its stuck in the middle.

[dubb93]

Honestly, the way it is now, Id prefer a FOF/TCY approach to the game since at least the form of the spreadsheet is more digestable than the glorified spread it is now with 'flavor' that just simply gets in the way IMO. It either needed to go fully one way (ie. FM) or the other (ie. TCY). Right now its stuck in the middle.

I think this is a prime example of it's not the game we want, it's the game we got. The improvements from WAMMA 1 to this one IMHO were huge, so I think one day it could become the game we want.

WAMMA 1 was a glorified database all the way down to the predetermined nature of the fights. Instead of actually simulating the fight the engine picked a winner and vomited out one of its few "fight recaps."

WAMMA 2 has actually made huge progress for a second generation game IMHO.

[dubb93]

It is much more a Joe Silva simulator than a Dana/Lorenzo sim for instance.


I think this is the best way to sum up the game and for this purpose it absolutely works.

[Calis]

I'm not sure if it is the flavor holding it back, but maybe so. I quite like the fake Sherdog front page with the news and info, but beyond that I think the inerface is extremely clicky. My major annoyance is having to delve through so many menus and back out when making fights or examining my roster. Everything seems a bit jumbled. That might be due to adding flavor though, but I tend to think it is more just general UI design.

I do agree that this 2nd version is exponentially better than the first game. I don't know how much room for growth it has to be honest, because Adam hasn't seemed to have made much in the way of progress with interfaces in a long time, so I'm not holding my breathe.

I'm definitely lenient on this game because of my interest in MMA and the lack of a competitor. It definitely doesn't have the ability of say an FM to bring in people who aren't already fans of the sport, but I enjoy it a bunch in spurts.

My biggest hatred in the game is contracts though to be honest. It feels like there is little to no negotation involved, and it is trial and error. It is generally tedious and the thing I dread doing. Maybe this is partly due to my lack of interest in the business side of the game, but it drives me crazy.

[dubb93]

PRIDE FC comes into the mod way too big. I edited them down to a realistic level. They are still the biggest promotion in the world thanks to a national following in Japan, but calling them the biggest promotion in the US and international in Japan is a little unrealistic me thinks.

I also split my game at this point. I copyed my save game and I now had 2 off the same data. One with UFC going forward. And one where I got the job at PRIDE and left UFC with more modern day settings, IE modern day rules and weight classes before I headed out the door.

[Calis]

Are you having luck with Pride actually doing anything? I moved down the popularity a good deal, especially outside of Japan but they appear to be just sitting around. I'm in January of '98 so they've been around a good 6 months, but their roster is sitting with about 5 guys. I've even been trying to not sign some guys who are solid but a bit pricey so they have more options but nothing much happening.

I'd like to see them put a card on and be a competitor sometime soon.

As for my game, I added a third weight division in 96 and I I think sometime soon I'll be adding a 4th. Currently my Heavyweight champ is Couture, who has basically ran through the competition. He is getting ready to meet Kevin Randleman in my next PPV though who was a former Champ who got caught against Tank and KO'ed. Other than that he has been unstoppable. In my oddest dominating fighter so far, Paul Varelans hold the record for title defenses and really went on a tear for a while cleaning out the division with wins over Igor, Severn, Bas, and Don Frye before falling to Randleman.

Middleweight division was dominated by Renzo Gracie(Currently ranked #1 Pound for Pound in the world). He has held both the Heavyweight and Middleweight title and is sitting at 13-1 with his only loss coming to Severn). Unfortunately I wasn't able to re-sign him and he sat in limbo for a while until finally signing with Pride. Since then the division has been ran by Frank Shamrock who is also 13-1(Only loss coming to Renzo). He hasn't had much trouble yet, but there's a new batch of competitors in the division including Tito, Wanderlei, Belfort, and Lindland who will be real tests.

The lightweight division is by far my weakest. I'm having a rough time building up main event matches with them so it has been almost relegated to a lower tier class. Royce Gracie won the title, but only defended once before losing it to Pat Miletich who is the current champion and looks to remain so for a while at least. I think his biggest threat is a young Mach Sakurai who is 3-0, but a couple wins away from contending. Igor Zinoviev and Akihiro Gono are currently the top contenders.

Overall I'm impressed with the results so far. It's closer to believable than I expected and much better than anything possible with the first game.

[dubb93]

Are you having luck with Pride actually doing anything? I moved down the popularity a good deal, especially outside of Japan but they appear to be just sitting around. I'm in January of '98 so they've been around a good 6 months, but their roster is sitting with about 5 guys. I've even been trying to not sign some guys who are solid but a bit pricey so they have more options but nothing much happening.

I'd like to see them put a card on and be a competitor sometime soon.

As for my game, I added a third weight division in 96 and I I think sometime soon I'll be adding a 4th. Currently my Heavyweight champ is Couture, who has basically ran through the competition. He is getting ready to meet Kevin Randleman in my next PPV though who was a former Champ who got caught against Tank and KO'ed. Other than that he has been unstoppable. In my oddest dominating fighter so far, Paul Varelans hold the record for title defenses and really went on a tear for a while cleaning out the division with wins over Igor, Severn, Bas, and Don Frye before falling to Randleman.

Middleweight division was dominated by Renzo Gracie(Currently ranked #1 Pound for Pound in the world). He has held both the Heavyweight and Middleweight title and is sitting at 13-1 with his only loss coming to Severn). Unfortunately I wasn't able to re-sign him and he sat in limbo for a while until finally signing with Pride. Since then the division has been ran by Frank Shamrock who is also 13-1(Only loss coming to Renzo). He hasn't had much trouble yet, but there's a new batch of competitors in the division including Tito, Wanderlei, Belfort, and Lindland who will be real tests.

The lightweight division is by far my weakest. I'm having a rough time building up main event matches with them so it has been almost relegated to a lower tier class. Royce Gracie won the title, but only defended once before losing it to Pat Miletich who is the current champion and looks to remain so for a while at least. I think his biggest threat is a young Mach Sakurai who is 3-0, but a couple wins away from contending. Igor Zinoviev and Akihiro Gono are currently the top contenders.

Overall I'm impressed with the results so far. It's closer to believable than I expected and much better than anything possible with the first game.

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

[dubb93]

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

I think part the problem also boils down to the fact that the guy admits he uploaded the wrong database so guys are debuting with 0 popularity and 0 reputation and the CPU is unwilling to sign them.

If PRIDE were a realistic level and guys were debuting with pop and rep I don't believe there would be any issue here.

[Calis]

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

Think that's fixed it, thanks a bunch. Dropped them to unknown everywhere, and 90% regional in Japan/Asia, and almost regional in the U.S. and Europe just to make sure they had the upperhand on me. The next day they ended up signing an undefeated Tito Ortiz away from me, and it looks like they're on a signing rampage now. Should hopefully see a card form relatively soon.

I might end up starting over, seeing as how they're a year and a half late forming and there are a lot of guys that have been sitting inactive. I'll give it some time though and see what happens.

Glad to see he has an edit with the fighters having a basic level of popularity/reputation. I'm finding that to be pretty tough right now as no one is grabbing these guys up, so they end up just stagnating unless I sign them up and give them matches and then release them. Too much work for me, and too big of a roster. Maybe I can buy up a smaller promotion at some point and send guys down there to hopefully get some matches.

[dubb93]

OK so an update:

It seems that Dawn of MMA isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. I offered to fix it in an official capacity and Lucien Sanchez gave me the go ahead since he isn't able to fix it but wanted me to ask the Tap or Snap guys since he based his data off of theirs. Unfortunately the Tap or Snap guys told me all I can do is bug fixes, I can't touch the actual data itself(which is where alot of the issues are with promotion pop and fighter pop/rep). So I'm not working on it with handcuffs on and I wouldn't count on it being finished anytime soon by anyone else either.

[TLK]

OK so an update:

It seems that Dawn of MMA isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. I offered to fix it in an official capacity and Lucien Sanchez gave me the go ahead since he isn't able to fix it but wanted me to ask the Tap or Snap guys since he based his data off of theirs. Unfortunately the Tap or Snap guys told me all I can do is bug fixes, I can't touch the actual data itself(which is where alot of the issues are with promotion pop and fighter pop/rep). So I'm not working on it with handcuffs on and I wouldn't count on it being finished anytime soon by anyone else either.

How about you fix it and just give it to us. ;)
:)

[Calis]

I guess I've never worked that much on a mod so I have little room to talk but I can't help but roll my eyes at them sometime, especially when you're looking at a community as small as the one for WMMA. They'd rather it just sit there semi-broken, then take the chance of someone stealing some of their credit or tarnishing their mod.

Mostly I'm just annoyed because I think what you suggested is the biggest thing aggravating me with my mod and will probably be what stops me from using it. It's really messing with the other promotions and I'm far enough along that it doesn't make sense for me as the UFC to be signing these guy with no fights, but if I don't no one else will. I'm ending up with Pride having Main Events that feature guys who are 1-7 fighting for titles. It's a bit of a letdown. I have to sign guys, build them up and then release them in order for other stars to show up.

I'm still enjoying it by building up my own guys and doing some alternative history, but I think some rep/popularity changes would go a long ways towards helping this out. We've seen plenty of guys in real life with no past fights that have a reputation and popularity, and that should carry over.

I'm also too lazy to change them all myself. :)

Hopefully the other mod you mentioned will not have this issue, especially if they're adding a bunch of K-1 and Boxing types that didn't actually fight MMA. I want the potential for some freakshow Pride-style headliners.

[DaddyTorgo]

I guess I've never worked that much on a mod so I have little room to talk but I can't help but roll my eyes at them sometime, especially when you're looking at a community as small as the one for WMMA. They'd rather it just sit there semi-broken, then take the chance of someone stealing some of their credit or tarnishing their mod.


*nods* fuck them...bunch of douchebags

[SirFozzie]

Let us know if there's anything we can do to help!

[Calis]

Looking at this a little more I almost wonder if just a flat-rate change to have introducing fighters start with say 5-10% Rep, and a couple percentages in popularity would do a lot more to get guys signed up. That's obviously not as accurate as real live, but it's a helluva lot easier to fix.

Too bad there wasn't a mass edit option in the editor. Changing all those at once, and then changing the specific guys would be nice(I'm thinking the guys that came into MMA with a lot of heat; Olympic Wrestlers, Judokans, ADCC or World BJJ winners, K-1 guys, stuff like that) These guys shouldn't be wasting away because no one will sign them, and they shouldn't start in the lowest tier promotion.

I don't know much on these stats though, so I don't know if this would have the effect needed or would throw off the balance. If I get motivated I might mess with it more. Nothing says we can't do it here and just not share it. :)

I've actually wanted to mess some with fighter tactics also as I don't think any of these mods touch those do they? I wonder how much effect they would have.

Anytime I think about spending time modding this though I think I should be working on my own MMA game instead, it's my get back into programming project I've been kicking around, but dedication is not my strong point.

[Voo]

Could you just make a handful of companies that start with no popularity to get them to sign the fighters that are debuting?

[dubb93]

Looking at this a little more I almost wonder if just a flat-rate change to have introducing fighters start with say 5-10% Rep, and a couple percentages in popularity would do a lot more to get guys signed up. That's obviously not as accurate as real live, but it's a helluva lot easier to fix.

Too bad there wasn't a mass edit option in the editor. Changing all those at once, and then changing the specific guys would be nice(I'm thinking the guys that came into MMA with a lot of heat; Olympic Wrestlers, Judokans, ADCC or World BJJ winners, K-1 guys, stuff like that) These guys shouldn't be wasting away because no one will sign them, and they shouldn't start in the lowest tier promotion.

I don't know much on these stats though, so I don't know if this would have the effect needed or would throw off the balance. If I get motivated I might mess with it more. Nothing says we can't do it here and just not share it. :)

I've actually wanted to mess some with fighter tactics also as I don't think any of these mods touch those do they? I wonder how much effect they would have.

Anytime I think about spending time modding this though I think I should be working on my own MMA game instead, it's my get back into programming project I've been kicking around, but dedication is not my strong point.

It was suggested by the mod maker that the intent was for every fighter to have between 10% and 50% regional popularity and 0-30% rep upon debut into the world. This would have been based on the fighters success IRL.(this is what I was going to do first in an attempt to fix this, although some people would come in with higher popularity assuming it would be warranted.)

Also all the companies need to have their popularity edited and scaled to a realistic level.

After that I think the camps are a huge issue. Something has to be done with them and I like what I am seeing from my fight camp file that I made by doing a google search on every fight camp in the game and making a best guess on the date the camp became active. Heck some of them were pretty clear and had websites with a date the camp was founded. Also some of the camps have no focus. I think every camp should have atleast one focus. And the Lion's Den needs to be added so there is an American fight camp open on day 1.

Then you have the misc. small errors that always crop up with a data set this large that have been reported and are easy fixes.

That is of course what I was going to do but that idea was of course nixed by the Tap of Snap team.

[dubb93]

Could you just make a handful of companies that start with no popularity to get them to sign the fighters that are debuting?

I don't think so. The issue is the AI avoids people with no popularity like the plague. Those companies may sign guys up at the start, but would soon begin to increase their pop. This fix would be like a band-aid on severed limb, it may do something in the short term, but the end result is still going to be the same.

[DaddyTorgo]

That is of course what I was going to do but that idea was of course nixed by the Tap of Snap team.


fuck them - what are they going to do if you mod their data? it's not like they can sue you or anything

[SirFozzie]

It's a shame.. as I said over there, before I got dragged into a flamewar with the guy behind the Tap or Snap project, something like this had the ability to revitalize the interest in a game a lot of us had put away. But as long as the creator's acting like his data comes down on stone tablets, there's not much chance of that happening.

[Flasch186]

<----disappointed with the game anyways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fuck them - what are they going to do if you mod their data? it's not like they can sue you or anything

Presumably it can lead to a forum ban, per this snazzy little thread from Ryland back in May 2008 (on the TEW subforum)

GDS Official Mod-Making Rules - Grey Dog Software (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31624)

[jbergey22]

Mod makers run the show over there.

I havent played the mod so Im unclear on the actual problem but Im not sure why anyone wouldnt want help on a mod if it was offered.

Actually I do know, there are lots of huge egos over there:)

Is it a data issue or game mechanics issue? Adam has been great at taking suggestions and putting them in for this particular game. This was prior to the announcement of TEW10 though.

[Calis]

I actually don't blame him for that, I imagine he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of a bunch of whiners arguing over who stole what from who. Easier to just go that route.

That community is among the worst I've run across for text sim games. It's pretty amazing. I try and never go there unless I'm looking for a mod.

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

[jbergey22]

I actually don't blame him for that, I imagine he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of a bunch of whiners arguing over who stole what from who. Easier to just go that route.

That community is among the worst I've run across for text sim games. It's pretty amazing. I try and never go there unless I'm looking for a mod.

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

Is it that big promotions wont sign new fighters because they(the fighters) dont have any popularity? Is that the main problem?

[DaddyTorgo]

I actually don't blame him for that, I imagine he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of a bunch of whiners arguing over who stole what from who. Easier to just go that route.

That community is among the worst I've run across for text sim games. It's pretty amazing. I try and never go there unless I'm looking for a mod.

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

exactly

[Calis]

Is it that big promotions wont sign new fighters because they(the fighters) dont have any popularity? Is that the main problem?

Partially, but we're not talking just big promotions..it is ANY promotion basically. I mean for starters a flat fix to boost popularity/reputation for all fighters would go a long ways towards resolving this because these guys would get picked up by orgs and work their way up to the big leagues.

Ultimately of course they needed to be edited more individually so the guys who should have a big name can start a little higher up the food chain and be more wanted.

The orgs themselves need a few tweaks(Pride especially as mentioned), and the Fight Camps are a bit of a cluster, but the pop/rep is the biggest issue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

So long as we make sure the mods (here) don't approve a wave of trolls from over there.

[Mota]

Good game, but I don't really agree with the way the game too heavily weighs popularity and streaks into the calculation of how successful an event is. This is not wrestling, it's MMA and when all your matches are fantastic you should never get a Terrible rating for a show.

I started with the Tap or Snap mod and tried to run the UFC by redoing the 105 and 106 cards, and the game basically took a dump on these cards because the guys weren't international popularity and they weren't on win streaks at the time. According to the game BJ Penn is not popular enough to main event a UFC fight card.

It should be possible to have a card with a low buyrate (because of the lack of big names) but still be considered a good card and create a "buzz" that could increase ratings in the long run.

[DaddyTorgo]

Good game, but I don't really agree with the way the game too heavily weighs popularity and streaks into the calculation of how successful an event is. This is not wrestling, it's MMA and when all your matches are fantastic you should never get a Terrible rating for a show.

I started with the Tap or Snap mod and tried to run the UFC by redoing the 105 and 106 cards, and the game basically took a dump on these cards because the guys weren't international popularity and they weren't on win streaks at the time. According to the game BJ Penn is not popular enough to main event a UFC fight card.

It should be possible to have a card with a low buyrate (because of the lack of big names) but still be considered a good card and create a "buzz" that could increase ratings in the long run.

i agree with you here, and it's my one frustration with the game - it becomes less about like arranging good fights and more about playing a mix-n-match game to figure out who has the popularity and is on the win streak and everything...becomes way more about that then "oh this guy would be a great fight for this guy because of their styles"

i'd like to see the card-rating based much more on how exciting the fights were...at least 60% or so on that

[JonInMiddleGA]

Good game, but I don't really agree with the way the game too heavily weighs popularity and streaks into the calculation of how successful an event is. This is not wrestling, it's MMA and when all your matches are fantastic you should never get a Terrible rating for a show.

I started with the Tap or Snap mod and tried to run the UFC by redoing the 105 and 106 cards, and the game basically took a dump on these cards because the guys weren't international popularity and they weren't on win streaks at the time. According to the game BJ Penn is not popular enough to main event a UFC fight card.

It should be possible to have a card with a low buyrate (because of the lack of big names) but still be considered a good card and create a "buzz" that could increase ratings in the long run.

Yep, a great complaint.

And as DT said, it pretty quickly becomes all about playing mix & match, putting on a good fight be damned.

[Calis]

Excellent point and that is a pretty aggravating mechanic. I think less of a reliance on winning streaks and more on styles as mentioned would be nice and maybe instead of streaks put a focus on quality wins for a rating. Obviously a guy on a losing strike being thrown in a title match should be suspect, but we need more leniency.

I just braved the Greydog forums and looked at the thread for the mod and it appears to be a big misunderstanding, as now the Tap or Snap guy is saying(In a bit of a dick-ish manner)that he did say it was ok to change the popularity/rep but not the skills.

Guy doesn't come across overly well, but eh. I'm a big supporter of modmakers who obviously put in a ton of work for basically no gain, but it can be a little aggravating to see this aura of superiority and King of the Castle type attitude.

[dubb93]

I just braved the Greydog forums and looked at the thread for the mod and it appears to be a big misunderstanding, as now the Tap or Snap guy is saying(In a bit of a dick-ish manner)that he did say it was ok to change the popularity/rep but not the skills.


I'm not going back to the GDS forums. I know what was said between me and him and I also know that if I am not going to work on the mod unless I am going to fix every issue I have with the mod and make it as complete as I can. I'm not going to have my hands tied as he was trying to do. As far as I'm concerned it is now a non-issue. They can fix their own data.

[dubb93]

*cough* fofcmod? *cough*

We could probably all group together, split the load up and have the mod fixed up in a couple of days if everyone is interested. I'm not going to break the data makers wishes on my own and release it.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think biggz can eat my big meaty cock since he was cherry-picking my posts about the game to show what a douchebaggy forum this is.

and that's coming from someone that's done some modding, so i understand the "protection of my hard work" aspect of things.

[Calis]

I might be interested in helping mod the Pop/Rep. We don't need to "release" it, we can just share it among ourselves. I don't think any of us care about getting credit or stealing data, we just want to play the game and have it function how we'd like.

How many fighters are there in the DB, 1200 or so? That wouldn't bee too tedious if 4 of us or so worked on it.

I just wish there was an easier way to adjust this, but it falls victim to the Ryland Click-fest as well.

The main issue is I haven't looked enough at the numbers to have an idea what would be a good setting, or if it is even worth it.

[DaddyTorgo]

the reaction to UFC 108 despite a number of "marquee" fighters being missing just points out again the flaw in the booking engine for WAMMA. Popularity of the fight should be much more heavily weighted towards the success and excitement of the fights rather than the "name value" of the fighters. And sure, you can make "big name" fighters more likely to have successful and exciting fights...that's fine. That gives them a reason to be "big names." But it also means if you want to gamble and roll the dice with lesser-known names you wouldn't automatically have a shitty card as far as popularity.

[Calis]

Definitely issues with how cards are rated and how individual fights are hyped. Its a balancing act because while for instance 108 was good and had exciting fights, there was little hype and I assume the numbers will reflect that. I think its a bit murky as to what exactly the game is gauging.

Top of the list as mentioned is changing the importance of win streaks. That's just not how MMA works. I think this change in itself would do a lot towards fixing the booking engine. In general I might like to see more leeway in fight popularity and more issues with making the fights(fighters pulling out, trying to pick fights, etc..)

I hope the focus is on those aspects with the next version. I think the fight engine itself isn't too shabby right now. I'd be happy with it as is and a focus on improving booking, personalities, and maybe contracts because I still hate those, but I'm not entirely sure how you make that "fun". Right now it feels incredibly tedious. Either just have the fighter demand what he wants or completely redo the system.

I tried a pretty nice fictional mod the other day for this. Fresh Start or something I think. He basically compiled all the user made fighters, orgs, etc into one big mod. Its pretty nice. You need to do a little self-modding imo to make it feel more organic, but I recommend it for anyone who wants a break from the real-life mods.

[AlexB]

the reaction to UFC 108 despite a number of "marquee" fighters being missing just points out again the flaw in the booking engine for WAMMA. Popularity of the fight should be much more heavily weighted towards the success and excitement of the fights rather than the "name value" of the fighters. And sure, you can make "big name" fighters more likely to have successful and exciting fights...that's fine. That gives them a reason to be "big names." But it also means if you want to gamble and roll the dice with lesser-known names you wouldn't automatically have a shitty card as far as popularity.

There are faults with WMMA, but I think the booking is pretty strong tbh - the problem is more the grade afterwards. It would be better served having a descriptions as to the excitement, and a description as to the effectiveness in building popularity.

At the minute there's just the latter, so UFC108 would be 'awful' or 'very poor' because of the low buy-rate and moaning about the fights before the event. But the actual viewing was good - the fights were pretty good, and this needs to be reflected rather than just a cover-all awful.

[AlexB]

Dola,

Calis - what needs editing in the fresh start? I kinda like the idea, but also kinda think the whole thing could be a huge pain in the ass given the lack of ability to find when you have some sort of history: with no history at all, right now that's too much for me to be bothered with

[Calis]

Jari put the booking thoughts a lot better than I did. We should either have two grades or just leave the hype to effect buys/gate only and judge the card more heavily on the fights themselves. Obviously the popularity matters, but a little more leeway would be nice.

Jari- I made the work seem more than it is. The problems I ran into were that every org started with too much money and no roster, so the beginning devolved into a grind with hiring everyone you could, or else losing out. There isn't much to lose as companies start with so much cash.

The other thing was the orgs at least to me seemed basically interchangeable. That's the problem with no history, there is no character or focus to differentiate. It plays out almost like a league with everyone even. That is appealing to some, but I want things uneven to represent how it actually works.

So really the modding is changing some finances for orgs, and maybe changing some rules and what they're shooting for talent-wise. Also probably want to set some house rules for how you originally hire and how much you spend.

I played the initial release and it is very possible he has changed some of this already. It isn't too time consuming though as you don't have to edit individual fighters. You can play as is also, I'm just a little crazy.

I hate that initial period of signing guys.

[DaddyTorgo]

There are faults with WMMA, but I think the booking is pretty strong tbh - the problem is more the grade afterwards. It would be better served having a descriptions as to the excitement, and a description as to the effectiveness in building popularity.

At the minute there's just the latter, so UFC108 would be 'awful' or 'very poor' because of the low buy-rate and moaning about the fights before the event. But the actual viewing was good - the fights were pretty good, and this needs to be reflected rather than just a cover-all awful.

exactly. because then as the booker i'd be like "sweet...i put on a card with great fights!"

right now it's just "i put on a card that nobody bought...boo hoo"

[TLK]

Dawn of MMA 2 Released (http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=78131)

I haven't got a chance to mess around with it, so I can't offer any feedback.

[Calis]

I've been digging back into WMMA2 the last few days, specifically a mod that is a Pride vs. UFC mod that starts right around 2000 or 2001. Having a lot of fun with it, I recommend the data, it gets you past the initial slow period but still gives you a lot of room and allows you to mold most fighter's careers still.

I have such a love/hate relationship with this game though. I think it is actually a very solid game that is almost demolished by trying to play it. I don't think it would be difficult to fix either, but I'm sure it'd never happen. Something as simple a not going day by day..what would this hurt? Let's say each "turn" was a week. Is there a difference even figured in for viewers and such depending on day of week? Do opposing events really battle for viewers? I've never noticed much if so, but I do notice how absolutely tedious it is going from one event to the next. Some way to keep requests more bunched and move the calendar along would be great.

Maybe even changing the quick advance in the options, so you didn't need to reset it every time you tried to advance would be a simpler if less ideal solution.

I have a great time booking cards, and seeing the results...watching how fighters evolve and looking at other orgs, but the time between is just a chore and comprises the majority of time spent in game.

Contracts are the other major slowdown. Need to see either the fighter suggesting terms from the start, or a simpler way to quickly sign.

[AlexB]

Hmmm - Calis = Gertbeef? :)

Agree with you/both of you completely on the contracts side, but I quite like the day by day movement - I've merged the default, Fresh Start Complete, and the UFC vs Pride mods to give a super-DB, and I like reading the updates tbh - it adds flavour for me.

[Calis]

Lol, you found me! Thought I better post it there as well.

I do like seeing the news of results/announcements of matches, but it seems with the amount of days with repeat info or generic filler news you could still do larger jump in days and get to see everything.

I'm not 100% sure on that idea though, maybe it would take away some enjoyment...I'd just like to see the clicks to fun ratio tilt a little further towards fun. I suppose adding a little more fighter interaction would also make day to day more interesting. Maybe guys requesting fights, or some "feuds" building outside of your booking.

Basically though, my personal enjoyment of the game is in putting together cards, building up fighters..crushing guys I dislike, etc.. if I could single click to sign someone, and click once to move to the next card I'd be in heaven. :)

[Mota]

The thing that really gets to me is popularity of your fighters determining the success of a card. It's just not realistic. Sure it would define your buyrate or TV rating, but if you put on a good card Superb and Fantastic matches in your main events, you should still get a good show rating even though not many people would have ordered it on PPV. That alone stops me from loading the game very often, it's just too frustrating.

[DaddyTorgo]

The thing that really gets to me is popularity of your fighters determining the success of a card. It's just not realistic. Sure it would define your buyrate or TV rating, but if you put on a good card Superb and Fantastic matches in your main events, you should still get a good show rating even though not many people would have ordered it on PPV. That alone stops me from loading the game very often, it's just too frustrating.

I agree. We touched on this a bit earlier in the thread too. Primary motivating factor in my not loading the game more often.

[Carman Bulldog]

So... there is going to be a third version of this game and there is a developer journal over on the Grey Dog forums. One of my personal favourite additions thus far is something I suggested back around the time WMMA 2 came out.

#14: Feeling Foggy

The way fighter's stats are presented in WMMA3 has been completely overhauled, with the old "belt" system being removed entirely and replaced by a new "fog of war" type system.

The way the system works is that the level of "fog" is calculated by looking at how many fights the person has completed. There are twenty different levels, ranging from Level 1 ("extremely foggy" - the fighter hasn't debuted) to Level 20 ("clear" - the fighter has an extensive history of fights).

The "fog" impacts two things - the AMOUNT of scouting categories and the ACCURACY of the data. For example, at the very lowest level you would have a very small amount of very wide-ranging categories; "Striking", "Wrestling", etc, etc. The accuracy would also be very poor, giving you results like "Good", "Mediocre", and "Bad".

Each time the fighter goes up a level, either the amount or accuracy increases (they alternate). So, by the time you reach the higher levels, you are seeing a large number of very specific categories and are getting very accurate results. For example, whereas at level 1 you may just have seen "Striking = Good", by the time you reach the higher levels you might have that broken down into lots of individual categories (punching power, low kicking technique, etc) and be getting results that tell you they're in the "90 - 95%" range.

This system mimics reality (the more a fighter competes, the better your understanding of his strengths and weaknesses is), prevents people from just cherry-picking rookies based on their stats, and provides a more strategic gameplay experience.

[molson]

So... there is going to be a third version of this game and there is a developer journal over on the Grey Dog forums. One of my personal favourite additions thus far is something I suggested back around the time WMMA 2 came out.

Great addition. I think other text sims could learn from that. No much better than tedious "scouting" as a means of aquiring player knowledge.

[PilotMan]

There are some seriously awesome upgrades for the newest version coming out. In fact, I can't believe how much of an upgrade this is going to be. If you haven't gotten a chance to see the developers journal for the sneak peeks take a look here:

http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=176282 (http://67.19.230.90/%7Earles/forum/showthread.php?t=176282)

[BYU 14]

There are some seriously awesome upgrades for the newest version coming out. In fact, I can't believe how much of an upgrade this is going to be. If you haven't gotten a chance to see the developers journal for the sneak peeks take a look here:

World of Mixed Martial Arts III: Developer's Journal - Grey Dog Software (http://67.19.230.90/~arles/forum/showthread.php?t=176282)

I am really excited for some of the additions, the new version has huge potential!!

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm going to wait to see if my irritation over the way that cards are "graded" is changed at all in this version - but some of the other stuff sounds pretty useful.

[PilotMan]

Honestly DT, I think you are off base with your criticism of it. The grade of the show is more encompassing than just the quality of the fights. Yes, they play a factor in it, but the fighters have to be worthwhile to your fanbase.

Let's take the Paulo Thiago and Diego Sanchez. Not this is the UFC. Both men have been title contenders. They are well known fighters, and top level fighters at that. They put on one hell of a fight, fight of the night honors and all that. But if they had been the headliner for a UFC fight, not only would it not have done well, but it wouldn't have served to advance the promotion at all.

That is the basis for the showgrade in WMMA, and I think it's a valid one. Had that fight been the main event for Bellator it would have been huge, and a big boost for the promotion.

I understand it may not be how you want your show graded, but it is more informative that just the quality of the fights with no regard to the popularity of them. That's the way it works in real life.

[DaddyTorgo]

But it ruins my enjoyment of the booking I guess is my issue of it.

[Carman Bulldog]

Well this should appease a lot of people (and address one of the biggest gripes of WMMA2)...

#76: Event Ratings

As some people seemed confused by the event rating system in WMMA2, the new game separates it into two for clarity. Each event now has a commercial rating (a measure of how it did in terms of drawing fan interest) and a critical rating (how good the show was at providing entertaining fights). The commercial rating is the most important of the two from a business stand-point, as the higher it is the more money you're likely to make, but the critical is also useful as it helps attract new fans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well this should appease a lot of people (and address one of the biggest gripes of WMMA2)...

re: As some people seemed confused by the event rating system in WMMA2

I don't think people were confused, at least not after some analysis. They just didn't fucking like the design choice.

Sigh.

[jbergey22]

I am looking forward to this release. Seems like a big step up from WMMA2. Adam never disappoints.

[jbergey22]

The thing that really gets to me is popularity of your fighters determining the success of a card. It's just not realistic. Sure it would define your buyrate or TV rating, but if you put on a good card Superb and Fantastic matches in your main events, you should still get a good show rating even though not many people would have ordered it on PPV. That alone stops me from loading the game very often, it's just too frustrating.

Shouldnt the amount of fans that actually watched the show determine what kind of event it was?

Would it matter if the Lions/Rams played the best NFL game of the season if no one was watching? Or would a Super Bowl blowout do more to bring in more fans?

If Im holding a Main Event in Japan with 2 guys they have never heard of I fully deserve the awful grade despite the match rating as why would Japan even care about 2 fighters they had never heard of in a Main Event?

I would speculate the Lesnar fight two weeks ago brought in a shit ton of new fans despite the Main Event being nothing special other than Lesnar losing. They created a new star.

The ratings in WMMA2 werent a reflection of that actual show but an indication of how the event was at creating new fans/keeping existing fans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Shouldnt the amount of fans that actually watch the show determine what kind of event it was?

Nope, not really.

Is the critical acclaim for Mad Men diminished by the relatively small audience? Does a 5-star wrestling match only take place at WrestleMania, or is it possible for the quality of the work to happen at a HS gym in Ottumwa? Conversely, does Kevin Nash versus The Iron Sheik in an Ultimate X Match suck less if it takes place on PPV?

The quality of an event is what it is. Suck is suck. Great is great. The quality of performances on event can be entirely separate from whether the event is commercially successful or the degree of promotional benefit gained from said event.

[jbergey22]

Nope, not really.

Is the critical acclaim for Mad Men diminished by the relatively small audience? Does a 5-star wrestling match only take place at WrestleMania, or is it possible for the quality of the work to happen at a HS gym in Ottumwa? Conversely, does Kevin Nash versus The Iron Sheik in an Ultimate X Match suck less if it takes place on PPV?

The quality of an event is what it is. Suck is suck. Great is great. The quality of performances on event can be entirely separate from whether the event is commercially successful or the degree of promotional benefit gained from said event.

I agree suck is suck and great is great but that isnt what them ratings meant in WMMA2. He had an odd way of doing which Im glad he is correcting with the new version.

The way it was intended is if you have Nash vs Iron Sheik at WM and it sucked it would still draw in more fans than AJ Styles vs Bryan Danielson in a 5 star classic because AJ vs Bryan isnt likely to draw enough fan interest so it makes the company look weak.

I agree that is was an odd way of doing it but it made sense to me I guess. The show would still be rated lower cause Nash vs Shiek "sucked" but atleast they put on a Main Event that got people to watch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I agree that is was an odd way of doing it but it made sense to me I guess.

The key here is that we agree on the "odd way" he chose to approach it.

"Made sense" on the other hand, I'd part company with you on. I understood what he was doing, I just thought handling it that way (as opposed to the improvement detailed for III) was a lousy choice.

[jbergey22]

The key here is that we agree on the "odd way" he chose to approach it.

"Made sense" on the other hand, I'd part company with you on. I understood what he was doing, I just thought handling it that way (as opposed to the improvement detailed for III) was a lousy choice.

Got ya!

Was it a gamebreaker for you though? From reading some of the comments above it seemed people stopped playing the game for this reason. I just sort of dealt with it and ignored the match ratings.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Got ya!

Was it a gamebreaker for you though? From reading some of the comments above it seemed people stopped playing the game for this reason. I just sort of dealt with it and ignored the match ratings.

It was pretty close, yeah. Not an absolute reason, but since it had such an impact on how you had to behave to succeed, it was pretty annoying.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, it made it a little too counterintuitive.

[dubb93]

Does anyone else worry that this will unbalance the game? I mean on my typical 11 fight card in WMMA 2 I would have roughly three fights rated fantastic(and these were mostly the quick KOs or clinch battles along the fence), 6-7 rated "good-very good" and only 1 or 2 or sometimes even no fights rated poor or very poor. Basically it seemed to me the game couldn't really tell what made a good fight or not. It seemed to rate clinch battles along the fence/ropes as fantastic fights and back and forth ground battles as poor fights. Everything else seemed to fall in the good area.

[jbergey22]

Does anyone else worry that this will unbalance the game? I mean on my typical 11 fight card in WMMA 2 I would have roughly three fights rated fantastic(and these were mostly the quick KOs or clinch battles along the fence), 6-7 rated "good-very good" and only 1 or 2 or sometimes even no fights rated poor or very poor. Basically it seemed to me the game couldn't really tell what made a good fight or not. It seemed to rate clinch battles along the fence/ropes as fantastic fights and back and forth ground battles as poor fights. Everything else seemed to fall in the good area.

Will what unbalance the game? Hes not changing a whole lot from WMMA2 instead he is having 2 ratings instead of 1. They will be weighted differently so it will be very similiar to what it was in WMMA2. The match ratings will still matter very little.

[dubb93]

Will what unbalance the game? Hes not changing a whole lot from WMMA2 instead he is having 2 ratings instead of 1. They will be weighted differently so it will be very similiar to what it was in WMMA2. The match ratings will still matter very little.

It says that commercial=money, critical=new fans. I don't remember ever putting on a show in WMMA that had more poors/very poors than fantastics. If that is the case then in WMMA 3 every show I put on, while not always making money, will increase my fan base. That would unbalance the game.

What I was trying to say is I hope he has put alot of work into making the game recognize a poor fight from a great one. Otherwise this game will have no legs for me.

[jbergey22]

It says that commercial=money, critical=new fans. I don't remember ever putting on a show in WMMA that had more poors/very poors than fantastics. If that is the case then in WMMA 3 every show I put on, while not always making money, will increase my fan base. That would unbalance the game.

What I was trying to say is I hope he has put alot of work into making the game recognize a poor fight from a great one. Otherwise this game will have no legs for me.

Well commercial will be graded similiar to WMMA2 in that if you have a main event people want to see the fans will come out and you will be graded well.

Critical will help you in a smaller way if you dont have highly popular fighters but consistently put on good shows.

I dont think the change from WMMA2 will be noticable at all really. It basically caters to the people that love seeing that they put on a great show more so than making mega bucks.

Adam has always been great at not adding things into the game with no negative effects. I am guessing now a popular Main Event the has an awful rating will hurt the company more than it would have previously. IMO he is the top programmer around. Its unfortunate that he only does wrestling and MMA games.

[DaddyTorgo]

re: As some people seemed confused by the event rating system in WMMA2

I don't think people were confused, at least not after some analysis. They just didn't fucking like the design choice.

Sigh.

As one who didn't like the design choice, yes...that was the problem. This helps it IMO, because you can be content putting on a show of great fights that gets a shitty commercial rating and just end up being an "underdog promotion" until those great fights attract you more new fans and build up your commercial appeal.

This might actually work for me.

[Mota]

Well it looks like change #76 will take care of a lot of my concerns. That wasn't a dealbreaker for me but it was very frustrating and probably contributed to me putting the game aside a bit earlier.

It would bother me when I had 2 top fighters in the main event put on a fantastic fight but just because one of them lost his last match, didn't have enough momentum to make it an anticipated match and the whole event would be considered a failure.

Sure the buyrate may be low, but you can imagine the people in attendance and the reduced amount of PPV buyers would have newfound respect for the fighters and would tell all their friends about the awesome matchups that they missed.

I think that the new 2 rating system takes care of this exactly, and would let the simulation of a WEC type promotion more possible. Not much hype, but a consistently good card.

[Mota]

I also like the ability to watch the fights of other promotions. Sometimes there's an anticipated matchup that I'd love to read, especially if I'm starting with a small fed that's not putting on the best matchups yet. This way I can follow the best fights in the world until one year where I'm putting on these fights in my own company (I hope).

[TLK]

I'm pleased to announce the there is now an official schedule for the release of WMMA3.

The trial \ public beta version will be released on December 4th.

The full retail version will be released one week later on December 11th.

We have a release date.

[BYU 14]

Nice, 1 month away! Really looking forward to this, need to get Fallout NV done by then :)

[Carman Bulldog]

There are a number of additions to the last Developer Journal post today (about 122 new entries) and definitely worth a read. Quite a few small things but there are some that should add quite a level of enjoyment and added realism to the game.