Love 'em or Hate 'em: Volume 3 Boston Pro Sports Teams

[SnDvls]

Thought I'd bring this back now that all the other polls have died down.

The BCS got 72.84% of the hate in our last poll and this was well before the final rankings and bowl matchups were announced.

This time we're looking at Boston Pro Sports Teams (the big 4); Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox & Bruins.

Between them they have 31 World Championships. Sixteen by the Celtics of the NBA, seven by the Red Sox of the MLB, five by the Bruins of the NHL and three by the Patriots of the NFL.

There seems to be a surge in Boston sports teams as the Red Sox just finished up winning the latest World Series Title, the Patriots are undefeated and are a heavy favorite to make the Super Bowl, the addition of several key players have the Celtics primed for a playoff run in the East, and the Bruins look to make a trip to the playoffs as well.

Yet, there seems to be some dislike for all things Boston. Be it Manny Ramirez or Tom Brady fans around the US and the World have some dislike for beantown.

So let your voice be hear FOFC....Boston Pro Sports Teams, Love 'em or Hate 'em!

[MikeVic]

I don't really hate 'em, I just don't like one area/city getting all the good teams. :) Celtics, Pats, and Red Sox are all very viable title contenders in the current seasons, and in the next couple of years to come at least. I like seeing the champs spread out.

[SirFozzie]

This will be a dog pile, I have a feeling. Success breeds contempt, and I don't think it can be argued that right now, Boston/New England teams are the most successful around. that gives people reason to hold the team (and its fans) in contempt.

[RomaGoth]

This will be a dog pile, I have a feeling. Success breeds contempt, and I don't think it can be argued that right now, Boston/New England teams are the most successful around. that gives people reason to hold the team (and its fans) in contempt.

I have to agree with you. Of course, I am biased because I like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Miami Dolphins, Detroit Lions, Detroit Red Wings, Detroit Pistons, Detroit Tigers, and yes....New York Yankees. So I naturally loathe ALL New England area teams. Nothing personal, I just can't stand them. :p

[Kodos]

Hate 'em. Mostly thanks to guys on this board and my father in law.

[larrymcg421]

Can't vote in this poll since my opinions are widely split.

Red Sox - Im a Braves fans but the Red Sox have always been my #2 team. I always root for them, partly because I hate the Yankees, and partly because I just plain like them. I started watching them as a kid because I briefly lived in Boston and never stopped liking them.

Celtics - My favorite basketball team since I started watching in the Bird years. I kept on watching through all the bad times, and this season has been a wonderful treat so far. Also similar reasons as with the Red Sox.

Patriots - Quickly approaching my least favorite team in all of sports, although they still have some work to do before they pass the Yankees. I used to hate the Bills and especially The Jets much more than the Pats, but it doesn't help that I'm jealous of the Patriots success, nor does it help that the Patriots fans on this board really tested the limits of whining about the persecution of their team, nor does it help that one of my coworkers is the most obnoxious Patriots fan in existence.

[chesapeake]

Success breeds contempt.

+1

[molson]

Some of my earliest memories are the '86 Sox/Celtics/Patriots. I've been hooked ever since. This is clearly the greatest time ever to be a fan of those teams in those 21 years (and probably all-time). Watching people trying to bring you down a notch has been an interesting experience.

[RomaGoth]

Allow me my indulgences if you will, but here are my championships (in no particular order):

New York Yankees = 26 World Series Championships
Detroit Tigers = 4 World Series Championships

Miami Dolphins = 2 Super Bowl Championships
Pittsburgh Steelers = 5 Super Bowl Championships
Detroit Lions = 0 Super Bowl Championships (4 NFL Titles pre-NFL merger)

Detroit Red Wings = 10 Stanley Cup Championships

Some of these teams appear to be poised to win another championship (Red Wings, Tigers), while others (Lions, Dolphins) are a decade away from being consistently competitive. In the Lions case, I am not sure they will EVER win anything.

I hate New England teams, but I will give you props for winning, especially the Patriots. They used to be a laughingstock of the NFL before Brady appeared on the scene.

[larrymcg421]

This will be a dog pile, I have a feeling. Success breeds contempt, and I don't think it can be argued that right now, Boston/New England teams are the most successful around. that gives people reason to hold the team (and its fans) in contempt.

That can be the case, but is not always the case. There are many successful teams that I have no problem with. I hate the Yankees and Patriots partly because of success, but mostly because of how the organization, players, and fans have carried themselves.

[RomaGoth]

Success breeds contempt, that gives people reason to hold the team (and its fans) in contempt.

Exactly. That is why so many people hate the Yankees. 26 World Series titles can do that to a person. Even in a down year, the Yanks are more competitive than most other MLB teams. Yes, we spend more money. We also make more money. So it evens out in the end.

[molson]

There's two kinds of sports "hate".

One is the normal, rivarly-based, generally good-natured kind of thing that everyone has. I hated the Lakers in my childhood but respect those guys now. I hate Peyton Manning today in the same way.

But then it can go to a really unhealthy level where the "hate" actually becomes real, which is pretty ridiculous. I saw a lot of fellow Red Sox fans get to that point with the Yankees, and I'm seeing a lot of it directed towards the Boston teams now, and fans, and city itself (including on this board).

There's a huge difference between a Colts fan talking trash, which is cool, and that next level, which just gets a little weird. They try to legitimize it with meaningless buzz words like "classless", and "evil empire", and such, but it's just jelous hate, pure and simple. (And even though the Pats get a lot of it now, the biggest culprit were definitely a good number of Red Sox fans depressed by the Yankee domination over them, so I'm not just being a homer here - I was close to a lot of that desperate jelousy Red Sox fans had and I can recognize it)

[Atocep]

This will be a dog pile, I have a feeling. Success breeds contempt, and I don't think it can be argued that right now, Boston/New England teams are the most successful around. that gives people reason to hold the team (and its fans) in contempt.

Boston fans pointing this out every time the subject comes up doesn't help either.



Personally, I'm rather indifferent. I don't hate the teams (I actually like the Red Sox), I dislike the majority of Boston fans that I've come across. Not so much on this board, its only gotten over the top a couple times that I've seen. However, I've met Boston fans that seem to think the rest of the country needs to give them recognition as the best sports city every day of our lives or something.

To be fair, though, I'm a Bears fan and I don't care much for a lot of other Bears fans. They tend to think the Earth was created in '85, Ditka is the best coach ever, and every time the Bears have an above average defense its compared to favorably to the '85 defense.

[Kodos]

Exactly. That is why so many people hate the Yankees. 26 World Series titles can do that to a person. Even in a down year, the Yanks are more competitive than most other MLB teams. Yes, we spend more money. We also make more money. So it evens out in the end.

But no World Series championships since 2000!

Keep on spending, George! We love the results!

[Big Fo]

Patriots - Dislike. In the same division as my team, plus Belichick is a prick.

Red Sox - Sort of like. Probably because I hate the Yankees but I also like Ramirez, Ortiz, and Pedro Martinez when he pitched for them.

Celtics - Neutral

Bruins - I don't watch enough hockey to care.

[RomaGoth]

But no World Series championships since 2000!

Keep on spending, George! We love the results!


LOL

The new spender now is Hank (& Hal I suppose). Either way, they appear to be more interested in home grown talent again, like in the mid 90's. As a Yankee fan, I have been so sick of seeing my team sign every damn available free agent out there. Carl Pavano is a useless prick, Jason Giambi should just go away with his stupid tears of remorse, Roger Clemens can take his 28 million for 15 starts and shove it, and Andy Pettite can go back to Houston for all I care. I am ready for the new age of the Yankees (Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Philip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano).

[stevew]

Piss on them.

[korme]

I am actually kinda positive on the three that matter.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am actually kinda positive on the three that matter.

So, what are your thoughts on the Celtics then?

[DaddyTorgo]

Allow me my indulgences if you will, but here are my championships (in no particular order):

New York Yankees = 26 World Series Championships
Detroit Tigers = 4 World Series Championships



they're yours now? so you played for/worked for all those teams? fascinating!!

how can you claim to be a Yankees fan AND a Tigers fan?

Are you a bandwagon Yankee fan and a fair-weather Tigers fan??

Get off the fence man...pick a side.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I bear no ill will to the Bruins. I've always kind of liked them. A good, original six team with plenty of history.

I don't like the Patrios, but I like Tom Brady. If someone is going to be the greatest quarterback of all time, it might as well be a fellow alumn.

I hate the Red Sox. I am not a huge baseball fan, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking too much about it, but they are easily my most hated baseball team. They are just like the Yankees, but, unlike the Yankees who embrace what they are, they still try to pass themselves off as loveable losers or a collection of good, blue collar fellas and as the "little team that could."

I don't care about basketball.

[Honolulu_Blue]

they're yours now? so you played for/worked for all those teams? fascinating!!

how can you claim to be a Yankees fan AND a Tigers fan?

Are you a bandwagon Yankee fan and a fair-weather Tigers fan??

Get off the fence man...pick a side.

I am also confused as to the whole Miami Dolphins and Steeler fan claim.

It's pretty common for Lions' fans to have a "Team B" because of the amazing suckitude of the franchise over the last 50 years, but two Team B's?

I really don't have such a team. I used to like the Seahawks because of Steve Largent, but that was 15+ years ago now. I guess the Cleveland Browns would be my next favorite team. My mom's side of the family are all from Cleveland, so I've always followed them to some extent.

[korme]

So, what are your thoughts on the Celtics then?

Sorry, I forgot there were still NHL teams in the United States!

[RomaGoth]

they're yours now? so you played for/worked for all those teams? fascinating!!

how can you claim to be a Yankees fan AND a Tigers fan?

Are you a bandwagon Yankee fan and a fair-weather Tigers fan??

Get off the fence man...pick a side.

Not on the fence. I grew up in Michigan so I became a Tigers fan by default. I have been a Yankees fan forever. I will always choose the Yankees over the Tigers, but those are the only 2 teams in baseball that I give a crap about. So - if the Yankees are playing the Tigers, I will root for the Yankees. If the Yankees or the Tigers are playing anyone else, I will choose the Yankees and Tigers over anyone else.

[RomaGoth]

I am also confused as to the whole Miami Dolphins and Steeler fan claim.

It's pretty common for Lions' fans to have a "Team B" because of the amazing suckitude of the franchise over the last 50 years, but two Team B's?

I really don't have such a team. I used to like the Seahawks because of Steve Largent, but that was 15+ years ago now. I guess the Cleveland Browns would be my next favorite team. My mom's side of the family are all from Cleveland, so I've always followed them to some extent.

Yeah, I grew up in Michigan and suffered through 2 decades of Detroit Lions' ineptness. Watching QB's like Eric Hipple, Chuck Long, and Andre Ware made me physically ill. Then I saw arguably the greatest RB of all time in Barry Sanders cut a HOF career short because he got sick of losing. So in reality, my "Team B" is really the Lions. I have been a fan of the Miami Dolphins since Dan Marino came out of Pitt and I continued to follow them after he retired in 1999. I have liked the Steelers since I was a kid, and still like them. It is a struggle for me with which one NFL team of those 3 to really follow because I have ties to them all. However, in a pinch I would probably choose the Steelers.

[sabotai]

I don't love them or hate them. I like the Patriots (despite their fans so far). I used to like the Red Sox, they were fun to cheer for when they were suffering from the curse, but now they are just the Yankees Light. I like the Bruins. I'm pretty indifferent to the Celtics since I don't watch/follow basketball at all anymore. So I guess I'll vote "love 'em" since it's 2 Pro, 1 Con and 1 Abstain.

[molson]

C'mon people, get behind America's team - The Red Sox (the cleanest team in MLB)

[RomaGoth]

C'mon people, get behind America's team - The Red Sox (the cleanest team in MLB)

I just threw up in my mouth a little. :eek:

[molson]

I just threw up in my mouth a little. :eek:

Clearly, cheaters can't thrive in Boston.

The only member of the '07 Championship team to be on Mitchell's list is Eric Gagne. And obviously, being around a bunch of honest, hard working players made him panic, which ultimately effected his performance.

[Groundhog]

As someone who never has to encounter fans of pretty much any American sports teams in real life, I enjoy watching the Patriots dismantle teams, love watching the new-look Celtics, and couldn't give a hoot about NHL or MLB enough to care about either the Red Sox or Bruins.

[albionmoonlight]

I really don't care. I've always mostly liked the Celtics. I like them more now that they have one of my favorite players (KG).

The Patriots are a neutral team for me. Like, weirdly neutral. If they are playing someone I like, then I root against them. If they are playing someone I dislike, then I root for them. I have no feelings for them on their own. Like, in all of their Super Bowls in my lifetime, I cheered based on my feelings about the other team, not on them. Kinda weird, actually.

And, I dislike the Red Sox because of how obnoxious Bill Simmons got when they won the first time. Nothing more; nothing less. Also, I tend to generally root against large market teams in baseball just out of a general sense of liking underdogs.

And I don't know enough about hockey to have an opinion.

[RomaGoth]

[quote=albionmoonlight;1614831]And, I dislike the Red Sox because of how obnoxious Bill Simmons got when they won the first time.quote]


Bill Simmons is a putz.

[Noop]

Dislike their fans. I think of a hair saloon when I see them bitching about something.

[Abe Sargent]

I dont care about the Celtics one way or another, its the West I care about. Go Jazz!

I don;t care about the Red Sox baseball team, its again the other league I care about. Go Diamondbacks!

I don;t care about hockey.

Now, for football. Up until this year, I really enjoyed the Patriots dynasty. I thought they were the first dynasty since the Steelers of the 70s that you really liked. The players were humble, Brady didn't hold out for mega bucks, i loved the team introduction at the Super Bowl, the team was smart with free agency, and I really liked it.

Then, several things happened. Belichick began to get delusions of grandeur and pull a Mike Shanahan with randy Moss. Although that has worked so far in terms of putting up gaudy numbers and posting a lot of wins, it was an extreme risk for a team that had already won three SBs. Plus I'll never forget that I had a friend in HS who worked with Moss's gf over at Hooters and he beat her. I know it was HS and all, and it was before Moss was a megastar, and maybe he has changed, but I'll never forget Moss for being a woman beater, and I have no respect for a college (Notre Dame, Florida, Marshall) that recruits him or a team/coach that drafts/signs him.

That's one thing.

Then there is the whole "We Don;t Get No Respect " card when you are an undefeated team and favored to win your games against other undefeated teams like the Cowboys and the Colts. Come on now, knock off that crap.

Of course there was the much documented issue with the video recorder, and then the subsequent thoughts that they are running up he score to prove a point.

To me, this team went from the Steelers to the Cowboys in one year. From a loved dynasty with a lot of good players to a franchise that seeks a win at all costs, including breaking league rules and bringing in guys with character issues.

[st.cronin]

My favorite sport is hockey, and my favorite team is the Bruins.

How many people on this board knew that about me?

[Radii]

I dunno about their sports teams(well i do but we kinda have this conversation weekly or more so eh), but the guy with the Boston accent in the NFL Network commercials for the Thursday night games... I'd like to punch him in the throat.

[molson]

To me, this team went from the Steelers to the Cowboys in one year. From a loved dynasty with a lot of good players to a franchise that seeks a win at all costs, including breaking league rules and bringing in guys with character issues.

I wrote this in another thread (and I may have stolen it from somewhere else) but I think ALL dynasties go through some pretty clear stages:

1. The feel-good stage where you're a fresh face and everyone loves you
2. The extended period of excellence where it's clear you're going to be around for a while - the media and TV networks catch on and begin to spend way more time on you.
3. More fans jump on the bandwagon.
4. The backlash of neutral fans, the exaggeration of the team's perceived flaws, both on and off the field.
5. The demise, typically in dramatic fashion, which gives great joy to many

[Racer]

I voted Hate'em just like any respected Colts fan would do.

[Rizon]

Celtics: Don't care
Pats: No opinion
Red Sox: despise them
Bruins: NHL not relevant enough to have an opinion on

[BYU 14]

Celtics: meh

Pats: Actually kind of like them

Red Sox: A deep burning hatred that permeates my veins and manifests itself in seething rage whenever I hear the name.

Bruins: See Celtics...

I guess I really don't hate any of them but the Sox, but that's more than enough.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Celtics: Don't care
Pats: No opinion
Red Sox: despise them
Bruins: NHL not relevant enough to have an opinion on

It's funny when people say things like "NHL not relevant enough to have an opinion." As if any sport is really "relevant".

A sport is really only as relevant as you want it to be. For example, I pretty much ignore the NBA entirely and pay no attention to college basketball until the tournament (and even then I barely watch), so, to me, they aren't relevant at all.

I am not a huge baseball fan, so, to me, the MLB isn't terribly relevant either.

Sure, I'd be happy if the Pistons won the NBA championship or the Tigers won the World Series, but personally, the Lions winning the Super Bowl (that's even hard to type) or the Wings winning the Stanley Cup are much more relevant.

[Rizon]

It's funny when people say things like "NHL not relevant enough to have an opinion." As if any sport is really "relevant".

A sport is really only as relevant as you want it to be. For example, I pretty much ignore the NBA entirely and pay no attention to college basketball until the tournament (and even then I barely watch), so, to me, they aren't relevant at all.

I am not a huge baseball fan, so, to me, the MLB isn't terribly relevant either.

Sure, I'd be happy if the Pistons won the NBA championship or the Tigers won the World Series, but personally, the Lions winning the Super Bowl (that's even hard to type) or the Wings winning the Stanley Cup are much more relevant.

NHL isn't really all that popular in Oakland. I think we have a team around here, though. Seabass or Great Whites or something.

[Alan T]

Celtics/Bruins : Don't really care one way or another.

Sox : I'm a NL guy, so I like the Sox better than the Yankees so slight nod there

Pats: I enjoy watching what they do to other teams, and I think all of the pats haters have gone way overboard, so slight nod there.

Overall slight yes, so voted yes on the poll.

[SnDvls]

Celtics/Bruins : Don't really care one way or another.

Sox : I'm a NL guy, so I like the Sox better than the Yankees so slight nod there

Pats: I enjoy watching what they do to other teams, and I think all of the pats haters have gone way overboard, so slight nod there.

Overall slight yes, so voted yes on the poll.

hate to tell you Alan...yes isn't an answer :p

[Alan T]

hate to tell you Alan...yes isn't an answer :p

This is why I always fail these scantron tests.

[EagleFan]

Can't really vote on this one as it's not an all or nothing thing.


Red Sox: Love em!

Patriots: 19-0 baby!!!

Bruins: Could care less

Celtics: Used to hate them but not much reason to lately so they are now "don't care"

[revrew]

Red Sox: Dislike em

Bruins: No, I actually kind of like them

Patriots: Success breeds contempt. Plus, I really don't like Moss.

Celtics: As a Laker fan in my youth, and as a Timberwolf fan in my adulthood, the Celtics are the enemy.

Net result: Hate em.

[RomaGoth]

It's funny when people say things like "NHL not relevant enough to have an opinion." As if any sport is really "relevant".

A sport is really only as relevant as you want it to be. For example, I pretty much ignore the NBA entirely and pay no attention to college basketball until the tournament (and even then I barely watch), so, to me, they aren't relevant at all.

I am not a huge baseball fan, so, to me, the MLB isn't terribly relevant either.

Sure, I'd be happy if the Pistons won the NBA championship or the Tigers won the World Series, but personally, the Lions winning the Super Bowl (that's even hard to type) or the Wings winning the Stanley Cup are much more relevant.

I could not have said it better myself. It sounds like I probably pay more attention to baseball than you do, but that is only because there is little else to hold onto during June-August in the sports spectrum. I grew up in Michigan, so I can relate with the happiness a Pistons or Tigers championship would bring, but seeing the Lions...cough...err, ummm....winning a super bowl and the Wings winning the Cup are much more interesting to me. So yes, a sport is as relevant as you make it.

[RomaGoth]

Red Sox: A deep burning hatred that permeates my veins and manifests itself in seething rage whenever I hear the name. I guess I really don't hate any of them but the Sox, but that's more than enough.

Ahh, another Sox hater. Anytime I even see their logo I want to vomit. :mad:

[RomaGoth]

Clearly, cheaters can't thrive in Boston.

The only member of the '07 Championship team to be on Mitchell's list is Eric Gagne. And obviously, being around a bunch of honest, hard working players made him panic, which ultimately effected his performance.

;) Keep believing that but it won't become a reality. Gagne took the stuff before (and probably during) his stay in Boston. Mo Vaughn? I am sure more names will come out in the future that will include Boston, San Diego, Seattle, Chicago NL & AL, and numerous others. Anyone who believes that the steroid problem is limited to New York and LA is kidding themselves.

[dawgfan]

For me, it's less about success breeding contempt and all that so much as it's about insufferability of their fans.

I actually like the Celtics and have a huge amount of respect for the job Red Auerbach did in assembling that dynasty and the players involved. I was also a huge Larry Bird fan growing up, so it was easy to root for him and the Celtics.

And I rooted like crazy for the Red Sox in the World Series in '86 and '04 - it was a compelling story, Red Sox fans seeing their teams get close but never getting over the hump, and my hatred for the Yankees meant it was easy to root for their rivals. Hearing Yankees fans taunt Red Sox fans with chants of "1918" made it all the sweeter when the Red Sox came back in the '04 ALCS to beat them, and it was fun watching Red Sox fans go nuts over the cathartic win in the World Series that year.

But since then, I've grown sick of seeing bandwagon casual fans jump all over the Red Sox. I'm sick of seeing so many Red Sox jerseys and fans in Safeco Field when Boston comes to town, especially since so many of these "fans" are locals. Now they're just another dynasty, a junior Yankees, and many of their fans that suffered the generations-long drought of championships and taunts of the Yankees have now taken on that infuriating "little brother" complex of being even more obnoxious than their rivals once they taste success. I think even Bill Simmons has commented on this, that he has grown to dislike many fans of the Red Sox.

As for the Pats, it was a neat story when they won their first Super Bowl with Brady pulling a Wally Pipp on Drew Bledsoe, but since they beat a team I liked in the Rams (I had great admiration for that offense and guys like Faulk, Bruce, Warner and Holt) and their own players seemed so bland, I never really got into them. And the adoration for Tom Brady since then highlighted how much I dislike the way some people over-emphasize wins and losses and championships when rating QB's. I also get tired of their fans and their gushing about the team. So it was a nice bit of schadenfreude when Belichek and the Pats were busted earlier this season for sign-stealing.

Of all the Boston pro teams, the Patriots are really the only ones where jealousy comes into play - I have grudging respect for how smart their front office is, but it still pisses me off. I'm tired of seeing the Pats dominate the NFL, and I'm pissed the Seahawks couldn't take advantage of a year when the Pats didn't make the Super Bowl.

[RomaGoth]

For me, it's less about success breeding contempt and all that so much as it's about insufferability of their fans.

I actually like the Celtics and have a huge amount of respect for the job Red Auerbach did in assembling that dynasty and the players involved. I was also a huge Larry Bird fan growing up, so it was easy to root for him and the Celtics.

And I rooted like crazy for the Red Sox in the World Series in '86 and '04 - it was a compelling story, Red Sox fans seeing their teams get close but never getting over the hump, and my hatred for the Yankees meant it was easy to root for their rivals. Hearing Yankees fans taunt Red Sox fans with chants of "1918" made it all the sweeter when the Red Sox came back in the '04 ALCS to beat them, and it was fun watching Red Sox fans go nuts over the cathartic win in the World Series that year.

But since then, I've grown sick of seeing bandwagon casual fans jump all over the Red Sox. I'm sick of seeing so many Red Sox jerseys and fans in Safeco Field when Boston comes to town, especially since so many of these "fans" are locals. Now they're just another dynasty, a junior Yankees, and many of their fans that suffered the generations-long drought of championships and taunts of the Yankees have now taken on that infuriating "little brother" complex of being even more obnoxious than their rivals once they taste success. I think even Bill Simmons has commented on this, that he has grown to dislike many fans of the Red Sox.

As for the Pats, it was a neat story when they won their first Super Bowl with Brady pulling a Wally Pipp on Drew Bledsoe, but since they beat a team I liked in the Rams (I had great admiration for that offense and guys like Faulk, Bruce, Warner and Holt) and their own players seemed so bland, I never really got into them. And the adoration for Tom Brady since then highlighted how much I dislike the way some people over-emphasize wins and losses and championships when rating QB's. I also get tired of their fans and their gushing about the team. So it was a nice bit of schadenfreude when Belichek and the Pats were busted earlier this season for sign-stealing.

Of all the Boston pro teams, the Patriots are really the only ones where jealousy comes into play - I have grudging respect for how smart their front office is, but it still pisses me off. I'm tired of seeing the Pats dominate the NFL, and I'm pissed the Seahawks couldn't take advantage of a year when the Pats didn't make the Super Bowl.

The Seahawks are the Detroit Lions of the early and mid 90's. Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Bennie Blades, and Chris Spielman yet they still couldn't get it done. They eventually reverted back to their old ways, and as fans, we have gotten used to it. Seattle has Shaun Alexander, he will probably never win a super bowl either. I believe Sanders was a better running back, but in the end they both ended up on the outside looking in.

I have always hated the Red Sox, being a Yankee fan. Anytime a Red Sox fan spouts off about our "evil empire" or the Red Sox "dynasty", I just laugh. Two championships in 4 years is NOT a dynasty, it is just 2 really good years. The Yankees had a dynasty from 1996-2003, as they won 4 series and lost 2 others. My favorite hockey team, the Detroit Red Wings, had a dynasty in the mid 90's through 2001: lost in the finals in 1995 & won the cup in 1997,1998, & 2001. They were excellent teams every one of those years. They made the playoffs each of those years. THAT is a dynasty. A dynasty does not necessarily win every year, but it definately competes for a title every year. We don't see that much anymore in any sport because of the huge money involved. Players don't stay loyal due to the huge amounts of money thrown at them (don't blame them) and same with the owners. I hate the Patriots as well, but I do admit that Tom Craft has run that team very well. Now if other owners would do the same....cough...Huizenga.....

[dawgfan]

The Seahawks are the Detroit Lions of the early and mid 90's. Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Bennie Blades, and Chris Spielman yet they still couldn't get it done. They eventually reverted back to their old ways, and as fans, we have gotten used to it. Seattle has Shaun Alexander, he will probably never win a super bowl either. I believe Sanders was a better running back, but in the end they both ended up on the outside looking in.
Not a perfect analogy, but I get where you're coming from. I'm happy the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl finally, and the recent playoff streak since '03 has been a lot of fun (and this is one area I think your analogy breaks down - these Seahawks have been more successful than those Lions teams).

Also, at this point I'm not really sure what the Seahawks' "old ways" are. Before Carolina came along, the Seahawks were the NFL expansion team that experienced the most early success, posting 9-7 records in their 3rd and 4th years of existence. Mediocrity and worse settled in after that for a few years, but the franchise was one of the upper 3rd ones in the league under Chuck Knox from '83-'91. But soon enough the plague that was owner Ken Behring (he bought the team in '88 from original owners the Nordstrom family) permeated the franchise, and they sucked for much of the '90's. Paul Allen bought the team, Dennis Erickson was lured but couldn't get over the hump, Holmgren was lured and it took him a few years to get over the hump, but now the franchise is rolling along pretty good right now.

Even if/when Holmgren leaves, I think the management in place and the ownership will mean the Seahawks are likely to remain one of the better franchises.

[RomaGoth]

Not a perfect analogy, but I get where you're coming from. I'm happy the Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl finally, and the recent playoff streak since '03 has been a lot of fun (and this is one area I think your analogy breaks down - these Seahawks have been more successful than those Lions teams).

Also, at this point I'm not really sure what the Seahawks' "old ways" are. Before Carolina came along, the Seahawks were the NFL expansion team that experienced the most early success, posting 9-7 records in their 3rd and 4th years of existence. Mediocrity and worse settled in after that for a few years, but the franchise was one of the upper 3rd ones in the league under Chuck Knox from '83-'91. But soon enough the plague that was owner Ken Behring (he bought the team in '88 from original owners the Nordstrom family) permeated the franchise, and they sucked for much of the '90's. Paul Allen bought the team, Dennis Erickson was lured but couldn't get over the hump, Holmgren was lured and it took him a few years to get over the hump, but now the franchise is rolling along pretty good right now.

Even if/when Holmgren leaves, I think the management in place and the ownership will mean the Seahawks are likely to remain one of the better franchises.

Admittedly, I am not all that familiar with the Seahawks because I grew up in Michigan. I now live in Idaho and am moving back to Arizona sometime in 2009, so I see the 'Hawks more now than I ever had before. I see a franchise that could be in trouble in the near future due to salary cap problems. Alexander is signed for I believe 5 or 6 more seasons at huge amounts of money, and Julian Peterson and Matt Hasselback are near that realm as well. None of these guys is what I would consider young by NFL standards. In addition to that, Alexander is showing serious signs of wear and tear and looks to be on the decline. I may be wrong, but he appears to be breaking down considerably. How do they replace a guy like that, especially when they have so much $$ tied up in him and a handful of other aging stars?

My analogy to the Lions was based upon very loose evidence that the franchises seem to mirror each other somewhat. The Detroit Lions were largely successful in the 1950's and 60's before the AFL-NFL merger. They managed to manhandle the Cleveland Browns several times en route to NFL titles. With that being said, after the merger they quickly became insignificant and even pathetic for long periods of time. They completely wasted the career of arguably the greatest running back of all time in NFL history in Barry Sanders (I will hear arguments for Walter Payton, Jim Brown, & LaDanian Tomlinson). I have seen the Seahawks do the same thing with Shaun Alexander, the only difference is he got to a super bowl where Sanders did not. Sanders was a much better and more elusive back than Alexander, however he did retire earlier while Alexander is still playing at 30 or 31. The Seahawks were definately more successful during Alexander's playing time than the Lions were with Sanders. However, the Lions had some pretty damn good teams that scored A LOT of points in the mid 1990's (Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Brett Perriman). They were a scary lineup to be sure. The problem was, the coaching was inept, the defense mediocre, and the ownership was horrible. In fact, much of Detroit's problem in the last 30 years has been their ownership. The day the Ford family sells the Lions franchise is the day I will rejoice and dance in the streets.....Matt Millen be damned!!!

[molson]

I'm sick of seeing so many Red Sox jerseys and fans in Safeco Field when Boston comes to town, especially since so many of these "fans" are locals.

I totally agree with the rest of your post about insufferable bandwaggon fans, but one thing I realized living in Oregon and Idaho is how many young New Englanders settled out there (and the SF bay area). They're everywhere - I went to a game at Safeco and ended up sitting next to a guy that I used to deliver newspapers to in Central Mass 15 years ago.

That mass exodus west is largely for economic and job reasons, but I think it plays into the Boston hate. A displanted Red Sox/Pat fan can be as annoying as a casual bandwaggon jumper. Some of us get a little over- excited when we get to see our team live out here.

[SnDvls]

well I really thought this would be a runaway in the "hate 'em" side with all the fun Brady bashing people do, but didn't count on the fact that so many we're half/half on the teams.

next one will go up after the Holidays and I'm up for suggestions if anyone has some just shoot me a PM

[RomaGoth]

well I really thought this would be a runaway in the "hate 'em" side with all the fun Brady bashing people do, but didn't count on the fact that so many we're half/half on the teams.

next one will go up after the Holidays and I'm up for suggestions if anyone has some just shoot me a PM

I don't really mind Brady (probably because I am a Michigan fan), but I loathe every Boston area team. I hate the Patriots, hate the Red Sox, despise the Celtics, cannot stand Boston College, don't care for Boston University, and hate the Bruins. Did I miss anyone? :D

[larrymcg421]

I don't hate Brady. He's always come across as a pretty decent guy, unlike Belichik or Harrison. What I hated was the argument that he was better than Manning because of the number of championships. Judging individual players (in a team sport with 46 man rosters no less) on number of championships won is one of the dumbest things done in modern sports, right up there with judging a pitcher by his W-L record.

[RomaGoth]

I don't hate Brady. He's always come across as a pretty decent guy, unlike Belichik or Harrison. What I hated was the argument that he was better than Manning because of the number of championships. Judging individual players (in a team sport with 46 man rosters no less) on number of championships won is one of the dumbest things done in modern sports, right up there with judging a pitcher by his W-L record.

Well said. I agree with you, and have always tried to point that out to dumbass people who said Dan Marino was overrated because he never won a super bowl. In addition, we now know that Roger Clemens was/is a cheater, so his W-L record is even more irrelevant.