College Football Bowl Season Thread

[st.cronin]

the sugar bowl selection committee?

Actually they had no choice in the matter. Blame the Fiesta Bowl.

[Young Drachma]

I'm not even a little bit surprised by this (http://www.georgiadogs.com/pics16/0/WU/WUIBQWWECRIMIJE.20070606205829.jpg).

[Karlifornia]

Exactly. This is a Hawaii team whose best win is against Boise State. They aren't going to be able to match up athletically with Georgia. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

I know it's likely that Hawaii will get blown out of the water, but there is a lot of football left to be played here. Remember that USC/Oklahoma title game from a few years back? Oklahoma shredded the SC defense on the first drive, and then we all know how that wound up.

[Jas_lov]

Hawaii definitely deserves to be here. Let's wait at least another possession before we write them off. They seem to have settled down and are moving the ball now!

[Joe]

I know it's likely that Hawaii will get blown out of the water, but there is a lot of football left to be played here. Remember that USC/Oklahoma title game from a few years back? Oklahoma shredded the SC defense on the first drive, and then we all know how that wound up.

Are you really comparing Hawaii to USC?

[Karlifornia]

Are you really comparing Hawaii to USC?

No, I'm comparing one football game to another. And how the tide can turn.

[Atocep]

If you're saying that Hawaii shouldn't be there, I disagree. If a team is undefeated, they should get a chance to prove themselves on the big stage. Like, uhm..last year?

So if you scheduled 12 NAIA teams and went undefeated you should get the opportunity to prove yourself on the big stage?

[MJ4H]

Hawaii vs Illinois and USC vs Georgia would've been vastly superior to these two matchups.

[MJ4H]

Hawaii definitely deserves to be here. Let's wait at least another possession before we write them off. They seem to have settled down and are moving the ball now!

The exclamation point at the end of this cracks me up for this reason: you have got to be the most excitable football fan on the planet. I love it. :)

[Vegas Vic]

Not sure how this will turn out, but Washington is the only team from a BCS conference that Hawaii played this season. Washington came in next to last place in the Pac Ten (ahead of Stanford). Hawaii came from behind to beat Washington in a close game at Hawaii. Washington also beat Boise State this year.

[astrosfan64]

Michigan St. was scheduled but they backed out on the Warriors. It is hard for them to get games, people don't want to go out there and play them.

[astrosfan64]

BTW the warriors will cover if not win the game outright.

[Young Drachma]

Michigan St. was scheduled but they backed out on the Warriors. It is hard for them to get games, people don't want to go out there and play them.

It was Michigan and they paid App State to come there instead.

[Karlifornia]

Michigan St. was scheduled but they backed out on the Warriors. It is hard for them to get games, people don't want to go out there and play them.

I believe it was actually U. of Michigan

[astrosfan64]

I believe it was actually U. of Michigan

No it was Michigan St. this year.

In 2000 it was Texas.

[Karlifornia]

Brennan is a tough QB...shoulda thrown that ball away, though.

[Karlifornia]

No it was Michigan St. this year.

In 2000 it was Texas.

Oh, my mistake.

[Radii]

I'm not even a little bit surprised by this (http://www.georgiadogs.com/pics16/0/WU/WUIBQWWECRIMIJE.20070606205829.jpg).


heh wow. i wonder how common that is?

[Young Drachma]

http://starbulletin.com/2007/03/25/sports/story03.html

You were right, it was Michigan State. The Michigan game was just a rumor, it was never actually scheduled.

Scheduling difficulties were compounded by Michigan State pulling out of a 2007 game at UH, and NCAA legislation that allowed teams to play one more game than before. For most schools, the limit went from 11 to 12 (teams playing a game at Hawaii, including the Warriors, can now play 13 instead of 12).

In fact, Michigan State cited the 13th-game issue as a reason for pulling out. MSU paid UH a $250,000 inconvenience fee.

[Karlifornia]

Hawaii is making it even harder on themselves....

[astrosfan64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_State_Spartans_football

[Jas_lov]

Hawaii gets on the board 7-3.

[miami_fan]

So if you scheduled 12 NAIA teams and went undefeated you should get the opportunity to prove yourself on the big stage?

Yes if that is all it takes to get in a BCS game. Hawaii met the BCS requirements. They always put a quality win component in if they don't want the Hawaiis of the world in the game.

[Karlifornia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_State_Spartans_football

So, basically, Michigan State=cowards ;)

[Young Drachma]

heh wow. i wonder how common that is?

Maybe they hold separate tryouts to ensure they get the one each year.

[Vegas Vic]

Colt took a pretty good shot on that drive. He might want to consider getting out of bounds on those plays to avoid another repeat of this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc2RqGAh5NQ)

[MJ4H]

Maybe they hold separate tryouts to ensure they get the one each year.

Are we commenting on the ethnic unity? I haven't quite caught up, but I think that is where this is going?? I generally don't notice things like that so it took the comment above to get me thinking in that direction.

[st.cronin]

I'm not even a little bit surprised by this (http://www.georgiadogs.com/pics16/0/WU/WUIBQWWECRIMIJE.20070606205829.jpg).

I don't get it.

[Jas_lov]

Another TD for Moreno. 14-3 Bulldogs.

[Joe]

the rainbows don't seem to be doing so well

[Dr. Sak]

I don't get it.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[wade moore]

I missed the game up until the tail end of this drive..

But I have been looking forward to this game more than any other this Bowl season - and I'm saying that as a Tennessee fan..

Anyone who has kept up with the NCAA threads this season will know why...

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't get it.

Me neither. Moreno looks very good.

[Vegas Vic]

Georgia's offensive line is manhandling Hawaii's front seven. This kind of got overlooked in all of the pregame hype on Hawaii's offense vs. Georgia's defense.

[Young Drachma]

Are we commenting on the ethnic unity? I haven't quite caught up, but I think that is where this is going?? I generally don't notice things like that so it took the comment above to get me thinking in that direction.

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

I mean, they're just cheerleaders. I just noticed as they panned the sidelines and thought "I bet you they only have that one black cheerleader" and so I went to look and sure enough, I was right. I mean, it's just cheerleading.

And I'm sure their reply would be "black girls don't tryout" but...if the University of Wyoming and the University of Georgia have the same number of black cheerleaders, just seems strange to me...given they have a slightly bigger pool of student population to choose from..just struck me as strange and my more cynical side said "well what do you expect? They're in the south." (And I'm sure it's more "complicated" than that...)

That's it.

[wade moore]

Are we commenting on the ethnic unity? I haven't quite caught up, but I think that is where this is going?? I generally don't notice things like that so it took the comment above to get me thinking in that direction.

I don't get it.

Glad I'm not the only one.

It took me clicking on it like 4 times to figure it out, but I came to the same guess as MJ4H..

My guess - it's probably not all that uncommon.

[Karlifornia]

Wow. Georgia's offense is manhandling Hawaii. This is a case of the personnel making the coaches look like geniuses.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I haven't quite caught up

+1

[Lathum]

I don't get it.

me neither

[wade moore]

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

I mean, they're just cheerleaders. I just noticed as they panned the sidelines and thought "I bet you they only have that one black cheerleader" and so I went to look and sure enough, I was right. I mean, it's just cheerleading.

And I'm sure their reply would be "black girls don't tryout" but...if the University of Wyoming and the University of Georgia have the same number of black cheerleaders, just seems strange to me...given they have a slightly bigger pool of student population to choose from..just struck me as strange and my more cynical side said "well what do you expect? They're in the south." (And I'm sure it's more "complicated" than that...)

That's it.

So wait..

The fact that UW has no black cheerleaders (http://wyomingathletics.cstv.com/trads/cheerleaders.html) is just normal..

But the fact that UGA doesn't is racist?

Nice.

[wade moore]

Wow. Georgia's offense is manhandling Hawaii. This is a case of the personnel making the coaches look like geniuses.
I don't think anyone will really say genius either.

The plan is basic - feed the rock to superior athletes who are running behind superior athletes blocking for them.

[Karlifornia]

It took me clicking on it like 4 times to figure it out, but I came to the same guess as MJ4H..

My guess - it's probably not all that uncommon.

Can't think of a bigger waste of time than cheerleading. "But you get to look at 'em". Come on, this isn't 1948. We have internet porn now. I can see a girl pretending to be a cheerleader doing all sorts of perverted things whenever I want. Cut the cheerleading program, and lower the price of food at the stadium.

I'm sure every AD will get right on it.

[Young Drachma]

So wait..

The fact that UW has no black cheerleaders (http://wyomingathletics.cstv.com/trads/cheerleaders.html) is just normal..

But the fact that UGA doesn't is racist?

Nice.

I knew no one would get it. I don't know why I bothered. Stupid me. Carry on with the game, that's far more interesting than this discussion would be. I'm done with it.

[Groundhog]

I don't watch a lot of college football (usually because they show it at inconvenient times over here in Sydney, with no replays), but I watched most of the Auburn-Clemson game yesterday. Loved that kick return where the returner huddled up with the 4 (I think) blockers, handed the ball off to another guy, before the whole huddle all broke out, trying to confuse the kicking team as to who had the ball. Haven't seen that before.

[Jas_lov]

All of this talk about cheerleading and racism is irrelevant. There's a football game on and Hawaii is getting their asses kicked!

[st.cronin]

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

I mean, they're just cheerleaders. I just noticed as they panned the sidelines and thought "I bet you they only have that one black cheerleader" and so I went to look and sure enough, I was right. I mean, it's just cheerleading.

And I'm sure their reply would be "black girls don't tryout" but...if the University of Wyoming and the University of Georgia have the same number of black cheerleaders, just seems strange to me...given they have a slightly bigger pool of student population to choose from..just struck me as strange and my more cynical side said "well what do you expect? They're in the south." (And I'm sure it's more "complicated" than that...)

That's it.

Problem #1 is noticing the color of somebody's skin, and assigning importance to it. That's what racism is.

[wade moore]

I knew no one would get it. I don't know why I bothered. Stupid me. Carry on with the game, that's far more interesting than this discussion would be. I'm done with it.

Nice... Someone calls you out and you play "it's my ball, I'm going home"..

Let's take another stab..

Rutgers - http://www.scarletknights.com/cheer/

Looks like 4 males, 1 female - otherwise all white.

I just don't think there is a story here like you want to create. I like you DC, I really do - but sometimes you try to create issues where there are not any - don't be Noop, please.

Edit - corrected, totally missed several males - guess you can see where my eyes are drawn.

[JonInMiddleGA]

given they have a slightly bigger pool of student population to choose from

But that's an undergrad population (http://www.career.uga.edu/IMAGES/2006_ethnicity_chart.gif) that's only 6% black (6% Asian, 5% "other", 83% white).

[Joe]

Problem #1 is noticing the color of somebody's skin, and assigning importance to it. That's what racism is.

Am I racist if I only want to have sex with Asians?

[Karlifornia]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

[miami_fan]

So the game is that interesting huh?

[Karlifornia]

The only reason I can think of for Georgia to pass is to rest the running backs.

[Vegas Vic]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

Recruit some 5-star defensive linemen and linebackers.

[Joe]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

put 12 defenders in the box

[Lathum]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

Sweep the leg!!

[MJ4H]

Problem #1 is noticing the color of somebody's skin, and assigning importance to it. That's what racism is.

That's precisely why I didn't know what was going on at first. I just don't pay attention to that.

[Karlifornia]

Stafford looks like an INT waiting to happen.

[DanGarion]

Problem #1 is noticing the color of somebody's skin, and assigning importance to it. That's what racism is.

Ding DING DING, someone gets a gold star for actually using common sense.

I totally agree with your comment.

[Young Drachma]

Nice... Someone calls you out and you play "it's my ball, I'm going home"..

Let's take another stab..

Rutgers - http://www.scarletknights.com/cheer/

Looks like 4 males, 1 female - otherwise all white.

I just don't think there is a story here like you want to create. I like you DC, I really do - but sometimes you try to create issues where there are not any - don't be Noop, please.

Edit - corrected, totally missed several males - guess you can see where my eyes are drawn.

I swear I wasn't trying to create a story. In retrospect, I should've said nothing, knowing how it would've gotten twisted.

But I'll explain the context and I'll be done.

Wyoming has 100 black students, Georgia has about 2000 in a state where 30% of the population is black. I studied social policy as an undergraduate, so I notice all sorts of shit that ordinary folks wouldn't and don't care about. It's not a big deal and I don't even like cheerleading as a vocation and so, needless to say, I wouldn't advocate anyone do it, black girl, white girl or alien girl.

It was just something I noticed off hand and it didn't surprise me, but I was curious. And I doubt I'm the only person on the planet who would see that and take it as some indictment on the institution as a whole.

It's not a big deal, there are far more important issues on the planet to worry about and none of them have anything to do with this thread..because it's about football. I posted my thing as an aside, not as a snark and figured if someone "got it" they'd say something and then I'd make another aside about it and call it a day.

UW does has a black cheerleader, http://www.uwyo.edu/ambassadorsimages/clubimages/Little%20Pokes%20with%20Cheerleaders%20group%202.jpg. And I dunno if he was in that picture, but he's in this one and performed all season.

But anyway...back to the game, seriously.

[Jas_lov]

DAMNIT! NOBODY CARES WHETHER THE CHEERLEADERS ARE BLACK, WHITE, OR BROWN AS LONG AS THEY'RE HOT!!! It's a non issue. Back to the game...Hawaii might finally stop Georgia after a holding call sets them back to 2nd and 20.

[Radii]

Sweep the leg!!

i really think that may be the only option.

[Vegas Vic]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

Or, hope that Richt gets cute and starts running finesse plays out of the shotgun.

[JonInMiddleGA]

if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?

Issue weapons.

Failing that, you've got to take away the run at all costs. Making Stafford throw is the best chance you've got I think, they're only 2-2 this year when he has 30 attempts or more, 8-0 when he throws less than that. (And those two wins were narrow victories over Alabama & Vanderbilt).

[DanGarion]

Nice... Someone calls you out and you play "it's my ball, I'm going home"..

Let's take another stab..

Rutgers - http://www.scarletknights.com/cheer/

Looks like 4 males, 1 female - otherwise all white.

I just don't think there is a story here like you want to create. I like you DC, I really do - but sometimes you try to create issues where there are not any - don't be Noop, please.

Edit - corrected, totally missed several males - guess you can see where my eyes are drawn.
You missed more then several males there are like 5 women that appear to not be white. Since people want to make this a white vs. non white thing. :)

[st.cronin]

That's precisely why I didn't know what was going on at first. I just don't pay attention to that.

+1

If you had given me a quiz after looking at that pic for an hour, I wouldn't have had any idea how many were black/white/Asian.

[Karlifornia]

If the agents for these Georgia OL's are worth anything, they'll make a combine tape consisting mostly of plays from this game.

[astrosfan64]

Wow a stand

[wade moore]

So, for any wannabe coaches out there...if you were Hawaii's DC, what would you try to do to slow down Georgia? Ideas?Tell Brennan to throw more TD's?

[Jas_lov]

52 yard field goal hit! 17-3 Bulldogs.

[Eaglesfan27]

Recruit some 5-star defensive linemen and linebackers.

Winner. There is nothing Hawaii will be able to do to stop this Georgia offense consistently. Wow, heck of a kick there!

[astrosfan64]

+1

If you had given me a quiz after looking at that pic for an hour, I wouldn't have had any idea how many were black/white/Asian.

Me too. I have to admit I was lost as well.

[DeToxRox]

That kick woulda been good from 60

[Radii]

that FG would have been good from what, 60? 65?

[DanGarion]

That's precisely why I didn't know what was going on at first. I just don't pay attention to that.

But the fact that you don't notice this or pay attention to it makes you racist!

Just kidding, I guess being from Southern California I just don't understand all the race stuff, since I wasn't brought up in South... Or something like that.

[Karlifornia]

Wow, heck of a kick there!

I just said the same thing out loud in my living room. My roommates think I'm insane for getting animated about a FG.

[Klinglerware]

+1

If you had given me a quiz after looking at that pic for an hour, I wouldn't have had any idea how many were black/white/Asian.

Wow, you're still holding forth on this? Let it go man...

[st.cronin]

Wow, you're still holding forth on this? Let it go man...

2 posts != holding forth

[Jas_lov]

INT! THIS COULD GET UGLY!

[DeToxRox]

Brennan looks rattled. I think this game is as good as done.

[Karlifornia]

Nice job, Colt Grossman.

[Radii]

Just kidding, I guess being from Southern California I just don't understand all the race stuff, since I wasn't brought up in South... Or something like that.

That's probably more true than I'd like it to be. I grew up in a rural town in North Carolina, and I was able to grow up and be friends with everyone(the fact that I went to a elementry/middle school that was ~80% black helped), but it was impossible not to notice relatives and others who made a very big deal about people's color.

[Vegas Vic]

Welcome to an SEC defense, Colt.

[wade moore]

You missed more then several males there are like 5 women that appear to not be white. Since people want to make this a white vs. non white thing. :)

Yeah, I did twist that a bit ;)...

*shurg*... I just think it's REALLY unfair to paint some broad stroke at UGA as having "institutional problems" because there are no black cheerleaders.

I have been to a lot of college football games (at the I-AA level) and there are very few black cheerleaders except at predominantly black schools. That's just the way it is for whatever reason.

[Eaglesfan27]

Get ugly? It's already been ugly - Hawaii is completely outclassed.

[Radii]

ugh, just when hawaii makes a decent defensive stand too.

[st.cronin]

Hawaii is no Boise State.

[DeToxRox]

Colt's draft stock is taking such a hit right now.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, I did twist that a bit ;)...

*shurg*... I just think it's REALLY unfair to paint some broad stroke at UGA as having "institutional problems" because there are no black cheerleaders.

I have been to a lot of college football games (at the I-AA level) and there are very few black cheerleaders except at predominantly black schools. That's just the way it is for whatever reason.

What is this stuff doing in this thread? Take this elsewhere, please.

[st.cronin]

Colt's draft stock is taking such a hit right now.

Not sure I agree. I think his draft stock will be entirely determined by his combine performance.

[DeToxRox]

Not sure I agree. I think his draft stock will be entirely determined by his combine performance.

This is his only true test against a competitive defense with NFL talent. It'll go a long ways.

[DeToxRox]

What is this stuff doing in this thread? Take this elsewhere, please.

Go get boxed.

[wade moore]

I'm not sure that this hurts his draft stock that much more than throwing 5 Ints against Idaho or 4 against San Jose state.

[Karlifornia]

Go get boxed.

Go get in my box, baby.

[Jas_lov]

TOUCHDOWN STAFFORD TO BAILEY!!!!! 24-3 Bulldogs. It's starting to get ugly.

[st.cronin]

This is his only true test against a competitive defense with NFL talent. It'll go a long ways.

Except, he doesn't have equal talent to work with. Its a "David Carr in Houston" evaluating dilemma.

[DeToxRox]

If the BCS were based on best matchups (With the current teams) seeing Hawaii vs Illinois would've been so much more fun. Not to mention UGA vs USC

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentally, the WR that just rumbled through the Hawaii secondary (before fumbling OOB) only caught 8 passes this year & is roughly the 6th or 7th WR on the Georgia depth chart.

[Vegas Vic]

A lot of time left, but so far this is like watching the New England Patriots against an Arena League team.

[Radii]

yeah, time to turn this one off I think. I'd love to see Hawaii come back, but eh, watching UGA blow teams out is just not fun for this ga tech guy.

[DeToxRox]

Except, he doesn't have equal talent to work with. Its a "David Carr in Houston" evaluating dilemma.

And that won't help his cause I am afraid. The only thing helping him is how weak this QB class is.

[Atocep]

Except, he doesn't have equal talent to work with. Its a "David Carr in Houston" evaluating dilemma.


This is correct. The things to watch in this game are where he's putting the passes and how handles a pass rush. His actual stats aren't going to be important here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A lot of time left, but so far this is like watching the New England Patriots against an Arena League team.

I'd say the talent gap is wider in the Sugar Bowl.

[Karlifornia]

This was the only bowl game I had a lot of interest in seeing. Too bad it's been a stinker so far...Is anyone else finding it hard to get excited about OSU/LSU? Talk about a far cry from Texas/USC.

[Karlifornia]

Oh, no. That guy is not moving at all. Looks like Kevin Everett.

EDIT: Looks like he just "got knocked THA FUCK OUT". He's sitting up now.

[DeToxRox]

This was the only bowl game I had a lot of interest in seeing. Too bad it's been a stinker so far...Is anyone else finding it hard to get excited about OSU/LSU? Talk about a far cry from Texas/USC.

Honestly, Michigan vs Florida will end up being the most exciting game of the bowl season. Nothing left seems that appealing at all.

[DeToxRox]

The fluff stories to pass time have begun.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Honestly, Michigan vs Florida will end up being the most exciting game of the bowl season. Nothing left seems that appealing at all.

+1

[Atocep]

I'd say the talent gap is wider in the Sugar Bowl.


Come on, its a travesty that this undefeated team was shut out of playing for the national title.

[Logan]

UW does has a black cheerleader, http://www.uwyo.edu/ambassadorsimages/clubimages/Little%20Pokes%20with%20Cheerleaders%20group%202.jpg. And I dunno if he was in that picture, but he's in this one and performed all season.

I glanced around quickly and didn't notice him, which led me to at first believe you were talking about him being the mascot with the oversized white head :).

[Jas_lov]

FUMBLE BRENNAN! GEORGIA RECOVERS! THIS IS DOWNRIGHT EMBARASSING!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Come on, its a travesty that this undefeated team was shut out of playing for the NAIA national title.

Fixed that for you ;)

[Galaril]

Wow. I call game score 69-17

[Karlifornia]

No reason to think Georgia doesn't go up 31-3 here....Hawaii might be hitting Bourbon St. tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The only chance Hawaii had in this game was if CMR royally screwed up in the preparation.

He didn't.

[Jas_lov]

Go for it! They can't stop you!

[Joe]

No reason to think Georgia doesn't go up 31-3 here....Hawaii might be hitting Bourbon St. tonight.

or possibly at halftime

[Karlifornia]

Hawaii gets a stop. Now lets see if the offense can get anything going.

[Jas_lov]

Nope. Another sack. Brennan limping.

[DeToxRox]

Brennans delievery is gonna scare teams away.

I really think he is David Carr 2.0.

[digamma]

I just gave my wife the remote control.

[DeToxRox]

I just gave my wife the remote control.

What an indictment against Hawaii.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tebow tried to warn Brennan beforehand.
"Tim told me that Georgia had the best defense that he saw all season, and no one gave him as much trouble as they did," Brennan said. "He just told me to get ready because they would be coming after me. I got the message."

[Karlifornia]

Brennans delievery is gonna scare teams away.

I really think he is David Carr 2.0.

I agree. He throws it like a 5-year-old.

[DeToxRox]

It's quiet with Hawaii being dominated, K0rupt0r has nothing to flood the thread about.

[DeToxRox]

Chris Rose and Jimmy Johnson is the most unimpressive halftime duo ever.

[Karlifornia]

Chris Rose and Jimmy Johnson is the most unimpressive halftime duo ever.

So, we should be seeing them on the NFL Network any minute now.

[Atocep]

Hawaii goes into the locker room lucky to be down 24-3.

[Suburban Rhythm]

But that's an undergrad population (http://www.career.uga.edu/IMAGES/2006_ethnicity_chart.gif) that's only 6% black (6% Asian, 5% "other", 83% white).


Wow, 5% made up of people from Lost, who didn't crash on flight 815? They must all have picked UGA.

[dawgfan]

Not sure how this will turn out, but Washington is the only team from a BCS conference that Hawaii played this season. Washington came in next to last place in the Pac Ten (ahead of Stanford). Hawaii came from behind to beat Washington in a close game at Hawaii. Washington also beat Boise State this year.
Washington actually finished dead last in the Pac-10 this year.

[Karlifornia]

The Georgia band is playing "Don't Stop Believing". The Hawaii band should have been playing that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Breaking news: Southern Cal just scored again.

[Karlifornia]

Breaking news: Southern Cal just scored again.

Lol....Nothing quite like some "Southern College Football Fan Humor". I can dig it. Can I try, even though I'm not southern? Well, I'll just go ahead and imbibe:

Why did USC say "merci beaucoups" after every TD? Because they confused Illinois for the French army.

[DeToxRox]

Last sighting saw Ron Zook at an ATM. When asked his plans he quickly put away a wad of bills and said "Um, going recruiting"

[Vegas Vic]

Last sighting saw Ron Zook at an ATM. When asked his plans he quickly put away a wad of bills and said "Um, going recruiting"

Unfortunately, it was temporarily out of service, as Neuheisel had just emptied it moments earlier.

[DeToxRox]

Unfortunately, it was temporarily out of service, as Neuheisel had just emptied it moments earlier.

Well played.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wolverines give Carr special send-off

ORLANDO, Fla. -- They threw everything out there one last time, every last trick play, every last drop of sweat, everything. They did it because few thought they could, because they'd been beaten up all year. And in the end, the truth came out, impossible to hide anymore.

The Wolverines did it for their retiring coach, the man with the reluctant storyline, the man who took his final ride off the field Tuesday on the backs of his players, wearing a smile he may never lose.

In a dramatic finish to Lloyd Carr's coaching career, Michigan took a classic 41-35 victory over defending national champion Florida in the Capital One Bowl. And in the dressing room immediately afterward, all the pent-up emotions came spilling out.

There were tears and hugs and shouts of "Bowl win, baby!" and "Gator-bait!" The players popped cans of soda and sprayed each other. They sang "It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine," and then, in a wild scene of glee, they grabbed for their coach, pulling off his jacket, tearing at his shirt.

And together, they began the chant.

"Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Llooooooooyd!"
Carr, Michigan's coach for 13 years, then climbed onto a plastic chair in the middle of the room and addressed his team one more time.

"We overcame a lot of mistakes, but what a great, great victory for Michigan!" he said. "It defines this team. It doesn't define you individually because you've already done that. But this team will be remembered for what you did today in this great old stadium, after all the things that you went through. To me, you left a legacy here for all those teams to remember."

The players erupted in applause, then grew quiet again. This was the Wolverines' first bowl victory in five years, and capped a 9-4 season. But it wasn't about records and statistics anymore.

Carr continued, imploring his players to get their degrees. He thanked his coaches -- most of whom will depart -- and all his support staff. And then he turned to his key players, to Mike Hart, Jake Long, Shawn Crable, Chad Henne and the others.

"To the seniors, I love you," Carr said, and finally, his voice broke. "I love every man in this room. And it's been my great fortune to lead this program and to have these people with me. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart."

And lastly, there was this: "So gentlemen, what a happy day you've given me to remember the rest of my life."

Memorable ending

This is how every good story should end. This is why college football endures. Michigan was a huge underdog to Florida, and rightly so. The program had been under fire almost all year, from the opening game when tiny Appalachian State pulled the historic shocker.

More stumbles followed, capped by season-ending losses to Wisconsin and Ohio State. Then came the balky search for Carr's replacement, Rich Rodriguez, who was at the stadium Tuesday.

The Wolverines always said, when they got healthy, they could be great. The words became actions on an amazing day, when Henne, recovered from a shoulder injury, had the game of his life, throwing for 373 yards and three touchdowns.

Receiver Adrian Arrington, who might consider leaving for the NFL, was incredible. Hart, recovered from an ankle injury, rushed for 129 yards, and added to the day's drama by losing two fumbles. He had lost only one his entire career.

"I don't care about the fumbles because we won, and that's all that matters," Hart said. "Lloyd is one of the greatest coaches in college football history. This game was about the team, but when it's over, it's about Lloyd. We all realized that. That's why we all played so hard."

They played hard, although certainly not perfectly. There were turnovers and penalties and Florida kept coming back. But the Wolverines kept hitting the Gators' Heisman-winning quarterback Tim Tebow, showing a spirit they hadn't always shown, attacking with blitzes and determination.

On Florida's final two drives, Tebow was harassed into defeat, throwing six straight incompletions. When the last fourth-down pass hit the grass, Michigan's sideline erupted and the outnumbered pocket of Michigan fans in the stands cheered madly.

Emotions overflow

"We were hitting 'em high, we were hitting 'em hard, we were hitting 'em often," safety Jamar Adams said as the celebration calmed in the dressing room. "This is the best feeling in the world. We'd been through some hard times, everyone was talking bad about us, saying we had no chance. I knew it was possible because of all the great athletes here, and all the great coaches."

This game was framed by Carr's retirement, yes. And everyone was driven by that, although they'd cleverly dodged the topic beforehand.

The real emotions flew afterward. Defensive coordinator Ron English ended his stay at Michigan with an aggressive game plan to slow down the powerful Gators. And when it was over, he stood on the field and sobbed uncontrollably, tears rolling down his cheeks.

The assistants gave their best to the end, with nothing to gain but the satisfaction of a great victory, as they now look for their next jobs. English was the one who, before the game, stood up and fired up the team, saying the things Carr didn't want to say.

"Coach English told us we had to win it for Coach Carr, so that's what we did," defensive end Brandon Graham said. "We all took our vows that we weren't going to hold nothing back. We weren't going to have no regrets.

Everyonewas crying and yelling and saying, 'We gotta do it, we gotta do it.'"

So they did.

"People were disrespecting us all week, all year, our coaches, our players, our program!" Long shouted to the team after Carr spoke in the locker room. "Man, we killed them. We played together, we played for Michigan, we played for Coach Carr, we played for the coaches. And no one could stop us!"

With that, Long called for the fight song, and the old coach sang as loudly as anyone. The noise in that locker room rang pure and true, and for Carr and his staff and his senior players, it surely will ring forever.

[Karlifornia]

Brennan looks horrible. Wow.

[bhlloy]

Colt drops another round or two. Isn't his selling point his great accuracy?

[Noop]

Two very boring BCS games so far....

[Karlifornia]

Wolverines give Carr special send-off

ORLANDO, Fla. -- They threw everything out there one last time, every last trick play, every last drop of sweat, everything. They did it because few thought they could, because they'd been beaten up all year. And in the end, the truth came out, impossible to hide anymore.

The Wolverines did it for their retiring coach, the man with the reluctant storyline, the man who took his final ride off the field Tuesday on the backs of his players, wearing a smile he may never lose.

In a dramatic finish to Lloyd Carr's coaching career, Michigan took a classic 41-35 victory over defending national champion Florida in the Capital One Bowl. And in the dressing room immediately afterward, all the pent-up emotions came spilling out.

There were tears and hugs and shouts of "Bowl win, baby!" and "Gator-bait!" The players popped cans of soda and sprayed each other. They sang "It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine," and then, in a wild scene of glee, they grabbed for their coach, pulling off his jacket, tearing at his shirt.

And together, they began the chant.

"Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Llooooooooyd!"
Carr, Michigan's coach for 13 years, then climbed onto a plastic chair in the middle of the room and addressed his team one more time.

"We overcame a lot of mistakes, but what a great, great victory for Michigan!" he said. "It defines this team. It doesn't define you individually because you've already done that. But this team will be remembered for what you did today in this great old stadium, after all the things that you went through. To me, you left a legacy here for all those teams to remember."

The players erupted in applause, then grew quiet again. This was the Wolverines' first bowl victory in five years, and capped a 9-4 season. But it wasn't about records and statistics anymore.

Carr continued, imploring his players to get their degrees. He thanked his coaches -- most of whom will depart -- and all his support staff. And then he turned to his key players, to Mike Hart, Jake Long, Shawn Crable, Chad Henne and the others.

"To the seniors, I love you," Carr said, and finally, his voice broke. "I love every man in this room. And it's been my great fortune to lead this program and to have these people with me. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart."

And lastly, there was this: "So gentlemen, what a happy day you've given me to remember the rest of my life."

Memorable ending

This is how every good story should end. This is why college football endures. Michigan was a huge underdog to Florida, and rightly so. The program had been under fire almost all year, from the opening game when tiny Appalachian State pulled the historic shocker.

More stumbles followed, capped by season-ending losses to Wisconsin and Ohio State. Then came the balky search for Carr's replacement, Rich Rodriguez, who was at the stadium Tuesday.

The Wolverines always said, when they got healthy, they could be great. The words became actions on an amazing day, when Henne, recovered from a shoulder injury, had the game of his life, throwing for 373 yards and three touchdowns.

Receiver Adrian Arrington, who might consider leaving for the NFL, was incredible. Hart, recovered from an ankle injury, rushed for 129 yards, and added to the day's drama by losing two fumbles. He had lost only one his entire career.

"I don't care about the fumbles because we won, and that's all that matters," Hart said. "Lloyd is one of the greatest coaches in college football history. This game was about the team, but when it's over, it's about Lloyd. We all realized that. That's why we all played so hard."

They played hard, although certainly not perfectly. There were turnovers and penalties and Florida kept coming back. But the Wolverines kept hitting the Gators' Heisman-winning quarterback Tim Tebow, showing a spirit they hadn't always shown, attacking with blitzes and determination.

On Florida's final two drives, Tebow was harassed into defeat, throwing six straight incompletions. When the last fourth-down pass hit the grass, Michigan's sideline erupted and the outnumbered pocket of Michigan fans in the stands cheered madly.

Emotions overflow

"We were hitting 'em high, we were hitting 'em hard, we were hitting 'em often," safety Jamar Adams said as the celebration calmed in the dressing room. "This is the best feeling in the world. We'd been through some hard times, everyone was talking bad about us, saying we had no chance. I knew it was possible because of all the great athletes here, and all the great coaches."

This game was framed by Carr's retirement, yes. And everyone was driven by that, although they'd cleverly dodged the topic beforehand.

The real emotions flew afterward. Defensive coordinator Ron English ended his stay at Michigan with an aggressive game plan to slow down the powerful Gators. And when it was over, he stood on the field and sobbed uncontrollably, tears rolling down his cheeks.

The assistants gave their best to the end, with nothing to gain but the satisfaction of a great victory, as they now look for their next jobs. English was the one who, before the game, stood up and fired up the team, saying the things Carr didn't want to say.

"Coach English told us we had to win it for Coach Carr, so that's what we did," defensive end Brandon Graham said. "We all took our vows that we weren't going to hold nothing back. We weren't going to have no regrets.

Everyonewas crying and yelling and saying, 'We gotta do it, we gotta do it.'"

So they did.

"People were disrespecting us all week, all year, our coaches, our players, our program!" Long shouted to the team after Carr spoke in the locker room. "Man, we killed them. We played together, we played for Michigan, we played for Coach Carr, we played for the coaches. And no one could stop us!"

With that, Long called for the fight song, and the old coach sang as loudly as anyone. The noise in that locker room rang pure and true, and for Carr and his staff and his senior players, it surely will ring forever.


Spare me. Everyone was pushing him out the door, and now you wanna rep that bullshit? Were you calling for his job to saved, or even for people to stop being hard on him? If so, I'll back off. If not, this sounds like someone co-opting something they had no belief in. Like Rudy's parents from that one movie...I think it was called...Rudy?

[Schmidty]

I just gave my wife the remote control.

My wife is watching Dr. Phil. I am eating prime rib and playing WoW.

[Schmidty]

Spare me. Everyone was pushing him out the door, and now you wanna rep that bullshit? Were you calling for his job to saved, or even for people to stop being hard on him? If so, I'll back off. If not, this sounds like someone co-opting something they had no belief in. Like Rudy's parents from that one movie...I think it was called...Rudy?

YEAH!!!!

[Brownkeg8]

Colt drops another round or two. Isn't his selling point his great accuracy?

was based on 6-7 yard routes. I think most scouts had their minds leaning towards low 2-3 rd. before this game. He will have to have a great combine to make this up

[st.cronin]

Spare me. Everyone was pushing him out the door, and now you wanna rep that bullshit? Were you calling for his job to saved, or even for people to stop being hard on him? If so, I'll back off. If not, this sounds like someone co-opting something they had no belief in. Like Rudy's parents from that one movie...I think it was called...Rudy?

+1

Michigan fans make me ill.

[Schmidty]

+1

Michigan fans make me ill.

I love you. I want your scatchy goatee on my chin.

[Brownkeg8]

YEAH!!!!

or they realized the Buckeyes couldnt kick their ass again. Oh Yeah

[st.cronin]

I love you. I want your scatchy goatee on my chin.

Its not scratchy, its very soft. I use conditioner.

[DeToxRox]

I think most Michigan fans will tell you it was time for change in Ann Arbor, but the smart ones will also tell you Lloyd did a great job keeping the program running and winning that 97 NC. He was loyal to a fault and he made kids men. Anyone who personally bad mouths the guy is an idiot. I loved Lloyd, but as with anything, his time as coach was done. I wish him all the best and there is a reason so many kids come back to visit, he had that kind of effect on them.

[DeToxRox]

RIP Colt Brennan

You just got killed

[Vegas Vic]

That's gonna leave a mark.

[Joe]

I think Colt is crying

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now the bet of the night is set:
Will Georgia's defense score more than Hawaii's offense?

[Karlifornia]

I think Colt is crying

Lol...I wouldn't blame him. Not a pleasant way to end your college football years....but...when USC blew out Oklahoma 55-14, did anyone ask if Oklahoma really deserved to be there? I realized Hawaii is getting punked right now, but I don't think Hawaii is incapable of playing competitively with Georgia...Also, I think Georgia is better than Ohio State, and Georgia/LSU would get me excited. Have two teams from the same conference ever duked it out for the title? That would be sweet.

[Joe]

Colt drops another round or two. Isn't his selling point his great accuracy?

He's still at 68% for the game..

[DeToxRox]

Heres an over/under

How many times is Colt sacked tonight? At seven already.

Line is set at 12

[st.cronin]

Lol...I wouldn't blame him. Not a pleasant way to end your college football years....but...when USC blew out Oklahoma 55-14, did anyone ask if Oklahoma really deserved to be there? I realized Hawaii is getting punked right now, but I don't think Hawaii is incapable of playing competitively with Georgia...

I agree with this. I don't think this was an inevitable outcome at all.

[Vegas Vic]

Lol...I wouldn't blame him. Not a pleasant way to end your college football years....but...when USC blew out Oklahoma 55-14, did anyone ask if Oklahoma really deserved to be there?

Uh, yeah, the Auburn fans.

[DeToxRox]

Walk ons will be playing in the fourth quarter.

[st.cronin]

This is the first time I've really watched Colt Brennan, and I'm about ready to say that he will never throw a pass in the NFL. Ainge, Booty, Flynn, and Henne, among others, are all much, much better prospects.

[Eaglesfan27]

Uh, yeah, the Auburn fans.

I seem to remember that chorus from a lot of other college football fans as well. However, I think Oklahoma and Hawaii are apple and oranges. Oklahoma actually played some good teams that year and at least had some credibility coming into that game. I don't think Hawaii ever had that kind of credibility with the schedule they have played this year and I thought/think this result was inevitable which is the only reason I bet on it.

[Vegas Vic]

I realized Hawaii is getting punked right now, but I don't think Hawaii is incapable of playing competitively with Georgia.

You don't see the complete mismatch on the offensive and defensive lines?

[dawgfan]

I agree with this. I don't think this was an inevitable outcome at all.
Given that Stanford beat USC and Appalachian State beat Michigan this year, yeah - it wasn't inevitable. But look at Hawaii's schedule and tell me you seriously expected them to be likely to give Georgia a good game?

[Eaglesfan27]

You don't see the complete mismatch on the offensive and defensive lines?

Not to mention the inability/unwillingness to switch up their offensive scheme and give their overmatched offensive line some help with a TE or two.

[DeToxRox]

You don't see the complete mismatch on the offensive and defensive lines?

While I agree Hawaii should've been given a chance, I do think the teams picking these games should've tried accomdating them better. Put Hawaii vs Kansas. Let them trade scores. But Hawaii was the team no one wanted because they wouldn't have fans travel so it made sense to leave them with Georgia in their backyard, and it just so happens Georgia has an NFL prosepct rich defense.

[Karlifornia]

Uh, yeah, the Auburn fans.

Well, you had three undefeated teams, and two spots for a title game. You wanna turn football into Chinese Checkers, and have a three, or maybe even four-way game? If we can find a way to get four teams with the same record on the field at the same time, then let's do it. Let's just have a Royal Rumble, football style.

Except...Hawaii was undefeated. Nobody else was. They deserve it over Missouri or whoever else. Missouri would have been in the title game if they hadn't lost to Oklahoma. That's on them. Hawaii played one team from a BCS school, and scheduled another one, but that other school wussed out for a smorgasbord of reasons. Hawaii will play anyone. They're slated to play USC in a few years.

But, anyway....I have my first day off in a long time tomorrow...and I got drunk...so I'm rambling..sorry, Vegas Vic.

[DeToxRox]

Brennan is tough, I'll give him that. He got killed again on that option pitch.

[st.cronin]

Given that Stanford beat USC and Appalachian State beat Michigan this year, yeah - it wasn't inevitable. But look at Hawaii's schedule and tell me you seriously expected them to be likely to give Georgia a good game?

I actually said I did before the bowl season began to expose the WAC. Even after that, I think 12-0 means they are not a bad team - they're at least as good as a team like Central Florida, which nearly beat Texas, or East Carolina, which gave VaTech a very good game. I think if Hawaii brings their A game, and Georgia brings their C- game, Hawaii could win. But that's obviously not the case today.

[ISiddiqui]

I know I'm a bit late, but oh man does Hawai'i look bad. Brennan has to dropped a few rounds, you'd think.

[DeToxRox]

Mindless trivia -- The only Florida team with a bowl win this year is Florida Atlantic

[Vegas Vic]

They're slated to play USC in a few years.


I think they have to go to USC next time. The home field didn't help them too much in 2005. (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=252460062)

[Karlifornia]

I actually said I did before the bowl season began to expose the WAC. Even after that, I think 12-0 means they are not a bad team - they're at least as good as a team like Central Florida, which nearly beat Texas, or East Carolina, which gave VaTech a very good game. I think if Hawaii brings their A game, and Georgia brings their C- game, Hawaii could win. But that's obviously not the case today.

I agree. Good shit, Cronin.

[Eaglesfan27]

Colt throws yet another pick. I keep thinking about turning this game off, but now it's sort of like a wreck that I want to see how bad it gets.

[DeToxRox]

Georgia's D is so fucking good. Going into next year they should be #1.

[dawgfan]

Hawaii will play anyone.
No, they won't - not if it means giving up home games. Their schedule this year proves that.

For a variety of reasons (cost being the primary one) BCS-conference schools are reluctant to schedule home and home series with Hawaii. That leaves Hawaii stuck with their weak in-conference schedule and whatever lower-level teams are willing to travel to the islands for a game.

Now, they could be like Gonzaga in hoops and prove themselves with road games, but this year they didn't and have paid the consequences in terms of skepticism about the value of their undefeated (up till now) season.

[Swaggs]

Which bowl would Hawaii have played in if they had not made the BCS?

[DeToxRox]

Which bowl would Hawaii have played in if they had not made the BCS?

Hawaii bowl

[dawgfan]

I actually said I did before the bowl season began to expose the WAC. Even after that, I think 12-0 means they are not a bad team - they're at least as good as a team like Central Florida, which nearly beat Texas, or East Carolina, which gave VaTech a very good game. I think if Hawaii brings their A game, and Georgia brings their C- game, Hawaii could win. But that's obviously not the case today.
I think they'd be somewhere between 5-7 wins if they played in the Pac-10. And I might be generous in saying that many...

[st.cronin]

Which bowl would Hawaii have played in if they had not made the BCS?

Almost definitely the Hawaii Bowl.

[Karlifornia]

I think they have to go to USC next time. The home field didn't help them too much in 2005. (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=252460062)

Actually, I think USC goes there again in 2010....I may be wrong..but I think Pete Carroll likes Polynesian Pussy.

Just kiddin'....but, yeah...Hawaii got their asses kicked then, and they got their asses kicked tonight...but do you ever read books or watch movies? Would you like to read a book or watch a movie where the underdog gets the piss beat out of him, and then runs away, never to be heard from again? Or would you rather see an underdog who will get it's teeth kicked in multiple times in the hope of overcoming?

Maybe you're into submissives.

[DeToxRox]

Oof. Overrated chants are just salt in the wounds.

[Vegas Vic]

I think they'd be somewhere between 5-7 wins if they played in the Pac-10. And I might be generous in saying that many...

Washington played Boise State and Hawaii this year, beating the Broncos and losing a close one at Hawaii. The Washington players said that Hawaii would probably finish 7th or 8th in the Pac Ten.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Heh, I wondered when the "overrated" chant would start.

And the Fox crew, naturally, has to try to defend this NAIA pretender.

[Karlifornia]

No, they won't - not if it means giving up home games. Their schedule this year proves that.

For a variety of reasons (cost being the primary one) BCS-conference schools are reluctant to schedule home and home series with Hawaii. That leaves Hawaii stuck with their weak in-conference schedule and whatever lower-level teams are willing to travel to the islands for a game.

Now, they could be like Gonzaga in hoops and prove themselves with road games, but this year they didn't and have paid the consequences in terms of skepticism about the value of their undefeated (up till now) season.

Then why don't teams go to Hawaii and beat up on a supposed "patsy". I know that game weeks are mostly business, but I think any visiting player would favor looking at palm trees and sunshine rather than, say, Piscataway New Jersey.

[Joe]

lol.. Mark Richt looks so bored

[Swaggs]

If I recall correctly, that would have matched them up against ECU.

I guess they could have beaten ECU and probably finished in the top 6-7. After this game, I'm wondering if they will even be ranked in the final polls. I'm sure it was worth it to get the BCS money, but 15 or 20 years from now, a solid top 10 finish would probably be memorable.

[st.cronin]

Comeback begins... NOW.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Then why don't teams go to Hawaii and beat up on a supposed "patsy".

Ever checked the cost of flying a football team to Hawaii?

[Karlifornia]

Heh, I wondered when the "overrated" chant would start.

And the Fox crew, naturally, has to try to defend this NAIA pretender.

Hey, Jon, where were you last year, homeboy? Was Boise a pretender? They play in the same conference?

Things change year to year, game to game....Don't be that way.

[DeToxRox]

Then why don't teams go to Hawaii and beat up on a supposed "patsy". I know that game weeks are mostly business, but I think any visiting player would favor looking at palm trees and sunshine rather than, say, Piscataway New Jersey.

Logistically it's a problem. You don't want to open your year there, it's a death trap. You don't want to end if there if you're a BCS title contender because you just went through a grueling schedule of conference games to get where you are. You could do it week 2 or 3 but then you'd need a bye after if you're going to do it because I am sure that kind of trip takes a lot out of a team.

Sadly for Hawaii it's a no win.

[Joe]

Ever checked the cost of flying a football team to Hawaii?

I have never checked the cost of flying a football team anywhere. No reason to, really..

[Karlifornia]

Ever checked the cost of flying a football team to Hawaii?

Haha...college football teams worrying about money..Ok, Carrot Top, what is your next joke? I hope it has to do with the poor quality of airline food!

[DeToxRox]

Hey, Jon, where were you last year, homeboy? Was Boise a pretender? They play in the same conference?

Things change year to year, game to game....Don't be that way.

Comparing it to last year is tough. For one, this is a home game for Georgia. Secondly, Oklahoma last year wasn't good, they were beat up and had no QB. This year Georgia could've been in the BCS Title game. And third, Boise could run and throw. Hawaii can only pass and when you get shut down there you're done.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey, Jon, where were you last year, homeboy? Was Boise a pretender? They play in the same conference? Things change year to year, game to game....Don't be that way.

Boise was a fluke, plain & simple. A Chaminade.

I maintain the same position that I've maintained for quite a while now (all the way back to the BYU undefeated season a couple of decades ago):
Teams like this absolutely no business even being a part of the conversation when it comes to national titles.

Hell, there's large high school teams in several states that could play .500 ball in the f'n WAC., absolutely no doubt in my mind about it (if you'll let 'em have 5 years to use their eligibility).

[dawgfan]

Haha...college football teams worrying about money..Ok, Carrot Top, what is your next joke? I hope it has to do with the poor quality of airline food!
You think he's joking? Expense is a major reason teams are reluctant to go to Hawaii for games.

The other primary factor is it's a classic "trap" game. You bring a bunch of kids over to the islands for a weekend for a game - you think some of them might not get distracted? And there's not a lot in it for teams that go there - beat them and it's mostly "so what"; lose and you put a massive dent in any national championship hopes.

[Swaggs]

Any Oklahoma fans have any input on how their defensive losses might affect the team in the Fiesta Bowl? I have heard that they have four starters out due to grades/discipline/injuries.

I know some folks will sleep on WVU without Rodriguez, but I think the WVU-Oklahoma game will be the best BCS game. From all accounts that I have heard, the Mountaineers have had very good practice without Rodriguez and have kind of mellowed out, a bit (going from the very strict Rodriguez to a more player-friendly coach in Bill Stewart--which can sometimes do the trick for a struggling/uptight ballclub in the short term).

[DeToxRox]

lol at Richt challenging this.

[Karlifornia]

Boise was a fluke, plain & simple. A Chaminade.

I maintain the same position that I've maintained for quite a while now (all the way back to the BYU undefeated season a couple of decades ago):
Teams like this absolutely no business even being a part of the conversation when it comes to national titles.

Hell, there's large high school teams in several states that could play .500 ball in the f'n WAC., absolutely no doubt in my mind about it (if you'll let 'em have 5 years to use their eligibility).

I never said "national title" when it came to Hawaii. I just thought it was fair to let them try to prove themselves on the big stage, against a really good team from an established conference. Hawaii failed. That's ok. They got blown away. Many other teams from BCS conferences would have been dominated by Georgia tonight. They're a very good football team that's playing up to potential right now. I do not think that it's a good idea to deny undefeated teams from mid-major conferences a slot in the BCS over a two or three loss BCS conference team. Maybe I'm just a romantic, and enjoy surprises...and I wouldn't be surprised too much if Missouri beat Georgia tonight....I would think "Oh...that's nice...my balls itch".

[st.cronin]

I never said "national title" when it came to Hawaii. I just thought it was fair to let them try to prove themselves on the big stage, against a really good team from an established conference. Hawaii failed. That's ok. They got blown away. Many other teams from BCS conferences would have been dominated by Georgia tonight. They're a very good football team that's playing up to potential right now. I do not think that it's a good idea to deny undefeated teams from mid-major conferences a slot in the BCS over a two or three loss BCS conference team. Maybe I'm just a romantic, and enjoy surprises...and I wouldn't be surprised too much if Missouri beat Georgia tonight....I would think "Oh...that's nice...my balls itch".

Exactly how I feel.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Fox announcers are just the worst. As much as I can't stand Georgia, the fact that they're having this much trouble with the challenge kind of seems to indicate that there was something worth taking a look at.

Then again, I believe this is a Pac-10 officiating crew, so anything's possible;)

[Vegas Vic]

Boise was a fluke, plain & simple. A Chaminade.

Boise State turned out to be a legitimate top 10 team last year. The key was that they had great balance offensively, they weren't one-dimensional.

Also, Oklahoma was wrongly perceived to be some kind of a juggernaut last year. They scraped out a lot of close wins with a wide receiver playing quarterback and backdoored their way into the Big XII Championship game when Texas choked at the end of the season. Oklahoma was only a 6 point favorite over Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl, and they lost by one point in overtime.

So, despite the "David vs. Goliath" myth that continues to be perpetuated on last year's Fiesta Bowl, the underlying facts suggest it was nothing of the sort.

[Karlifornia]

You think he's joking? Expense is a major reason teams are reluctant to go to Hawaii for games.

The other primary factor is it's a classic "trap" game. You bring a bunch of kids over to the islands for a weekend for a game - you think some of them might not get distracted? And there's not a lot in it for teams that go there - beat them and it's mostly "so what"; lose and you put a massive dent in any national championship hopes.

That's pathetic. Any program with any balls...like...oh..USC goes in there regardless of anything, and puts a whoopin down. Any team that's afraid of going anywhere, anytime, doesn't have the goods.

[Mustang]

Holy Cripes, that challenge took so long I think next years bowl teams already showed up for a game...

[JonInMiddleGA]

I do not think that it's a good idea to deny undefeated teams from mid-major conferences a slot in the BCS over a two or three loss BCS conference team.

And there's our fundamental disagreement I reckon.

Remember though, I've been a proponent of completely reorganizing college football for years now, starting with cutting the size of the highest division/level considerably.

The conversation in the booth a few minutes ago about the size of Hawaii's recruiting budget ($50k I believe they said) vs UGA's ($500k+) illustrates the point pretty well I think. A more apt comparison might have been that the budget for caring for UGA (the mascot) might well be larger than Hawaii's recruiting budget.

[st.cronin]

Does anybody know of a good place to see school's '08-'09 schedules?

[Karlifornia]

Does anybody know of a good place to see school's '08-'09 schedules?

Most every scout.com based school website has the school's football schedule for the next 3-5 years. I'm a Stanford guy, so I start at thebootleg.com, and then hit "college team directory". There is endless entertainment on college sports message boards.

[stevew]

Hawaii looking good in postseason.

Brennan better schedule his draft day party for Sunday now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Does anybody know of a good place to see school's '08-'09 schedules?

Off-hand, I don't think there all going to be out there yet (depending upon who has expiring contracts, etc).

[Buccaneer]

It absolutely thrills me to see Hawaii getting thrashed. Many have said that they did not belong in a BCS bowl (Mizzou should have been in one) but you get their ignorant fans saying otherwise. Now we get 4 1/2 pages of stuff on the game and yet there are those still defending the choice?!?! Like someone said, Boise State last year was a fluke and when you get a team that could barely beat some pretty bad teams, it really comes down to the grownups telling the little kids to shut up. (checking the score again...). So there.

[dawgfan]

That's pathetic. Any program with any balls...like...oh..USC goes in there regardless of anything, and puts a whoopin down. Any team that's afraid of going anywhere, anytime, doesn't have the goods.
The "trap game" think is secondary to the expense issue. Teams would be more willing to swap home and away series with Hawaii if it wasn't so expensive to play games at Hawaii. The fact that it's a "trap game" on top of the expense issue just makes it that much more difficult for an AD to justify scheduling it.

Main reason the UW was willing to go there was for recruiting purposes, since they recruit the islands pretty hard. Plus, from Seattle the expense of traveling to Honolulu isn't as bad as it would be from other parts of the country.

[Atocep]

Does anybody know of a good place to see school's '08-'09 schedules?

Hawaii's '08 schedule.

2008 Non-Conference Schedule: Aug. 30 at Florida
Sept. 6 Weber State
Sept. 13 at Oregon State
Nov. 29 Washington State
Dec. 6 Cincinnati
WAC Home Games: Idaho
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
San Jose State

WAC Away Games: Boise State
Fresno State
New Mexico State
Utah State

[dawgfan]

Hawaii's '08 schedule.

2008 Non-Conference Schedule: Aug. 30 at Florida
Sept. 6 Weber State
Sept. 13 at Oregon State
Nov. 29 Washington State
Dec. 6 Cincinnati
WAC Home Games: Idaho
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
San Jose State

WAC Away Games: Boise State
Fresno State
New Mexico State
Utah State
Props to Hawaii - that's a far more respectable schedule than this year's.

[st.cronin]

Off-hand, I don't think there all going to be out there yet (depending upon who has expiring contracts, etc).

I realize that, I just figure there must be someplace where you can go peruse what's been confirmed.

[Vegas Vic]

That's 13 games for Hawaii next year? I believe the NCAA limit is 12 regular season games.

[TazFTW]

That's 13 games for Hawaii next year? I believe the NCAA limit is 12 regular season games.

Hawaii exemption.

[Atocep]

That's 13 games for Hawaii next year? I believe the NCAA limit is 12 regular season games.

I caught that too, but it was released in a statement by the athletic department.

hxxp://www.kitv.com/newsarchive/14274647/detail.html

[Atocep]

Hawaii exemption.


Thats right. Now the NCAA allows 12 Hawaii can play 13, correct?

I'm assuming this year they only played 12 because they had a difficult time filling their schedule?

[bhlloy]

Main reason the UW was willing to go there was for recruiting purposes, since they recruit the islands pretty hard.

This is also probably why USC chooses to go there once in a while. The number one player in next years class is from Hawaii and historically we have got a ton of players from there.

[TazFTW]

Thats right. Now the NCAA allows 12 Hawaii can play 13, correct?

I'm assuming this year they only played 12 because they had a difficult time filling their schedule?

Correct. When the NCAA increased the schedule to 12 games Hawaii's exemption was increased to 13. Problem was the only OOC game on the schedule was Mich St. and they pulled out meaning Hawaii had to find 4 opponents just to get twelve.

[Vegas Vic]

You have to admire the Hawaii fans, going berserk on that touchdown.

[sooner333]

Any Oklahoma fans have any input on how their defensive losses might affect the team in the Fiesta Bowl? I have heard that they have four starters out due to grades/discipline/injuries.

I think it's only three starters out. And it's really more like two.

Granger, the guy who stole the coat, is a DT and is a pretty good playmaker. The guy who will replace him in the lineup started all year last year though. This is a pretty big loss, but not as big as when Austin English was out toward the end of the regular season at DE because the DT rotation is deeper.

Reggie Smith is big loss at corner and is injured. He's the top corner on the team and a pretty strong force. He was also the return man, although I'm kind of happy to see someone else back there because he was always seemingly making bad decisions in the return game. Franks will replace him at CB and punt returner and is untested at CB.

Lendy Holmes, who is academically ineligible, was the Nickel Back. However, with Smith out, he was going to move to cornerback for the game, a position he played last season. Darrien Williams will be a solid replacement at NB as he has starting experience and a guy who Mel Kiper had as a top senior safety prior to the season.

Offensively DeMarco Murray is still out at RB, but he was out against Missouri and Patrick and Brown have played just as much and are very good runners, just not as elusive.

[SackAttack]

That's a lotta class outta Georgia there. Up 41-10, less than 10 to go in the 4th quarter, going for the TD on 4th down.

SkyDog must be proud.

[CU Tiger]

So the announcers are condemning UGA for going for it on 4th and Goal from the 5. What should they have done, kicked the FG and ran up the score?

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's a lotta class outta Georgia there. Up 41-10, less than 10 to go in the 4th quarter, going for the TD on 4th down.


With Cox at QB, there's less of a chance of running up the score by going for it than by kicking a chip shot field goal.

edit: CU Tiger beat me to it.

[sooner333]

This is ridiculous. I don't think Georgia is doing anything wrong. You put your backups in, you can't tell them not to try. Going for it on 4th down is pretty normal when you have a large lead because you are letting the other team have a chance to stop you.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, did anyone else think Brennan's reaction to the TD by his backup was less than optimal? Looked to me like he was a lot more upset by not being out there than he was happy for his teammate(s). Just sort of looked like a real "me first" moment there, which isn't consistent with the image he'd been portrayed with lately (the co-offensive player of the year stuff).

[SackAttack]

So the announcers are condemning UGA for going for it on 4th and Goal from the 5. What should they have done, kicked the FG and ran up the score?

I don't have a problem with kicking the FG. You'd do it if it were 21-10 because the points might be critical. why in the hell does 41-10 mean it's okay to go for the touchdown?

I'm not a Hawaii fan, but I'm now at the point where I'd love to see UGA get beat down the way Nebraska got spanked by Kansas this year...and I'd like to see a shot at the end zone on 4th down inside the ten for the team delivering the beatdown.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I'll be amazed if this doesn't get quite chippy down the stretch (actually, I'm pretty shocked it hasn't already).

[sooner333]

I don't have a problem with kicking the FG. You'd do it if it were 21-10 because the points might be critical. why in the hell does 41-10 mean it's okay to go for the touchdown?

Because you don't need the 3 points and it's letting the other team have a chance to stop the backups from putting more on the board. I guess you could take a knee, but that's even more embarassing. They also could have run the football, but that might have been just as likely to score.

[Karlifornia]

Agree with all of you...Jon, Sooner, CU Tiger.......go for it...keep laying it on the line and give the opposing team a chance to stop you. If they can't, then they can't. If you cry about that, then you shouldn't be playing a competitive sport.

[Vegas Vic]

Because you don't need the 3 points and it's letting the other team have a chance to stop the backups from putting more on the board. I guess you could take a knee, but that's even more embarassing. They also could have run the football, but that might have been just as likely to score.

Remember three years ago when OU was beating Texas A&M 77-0 midway through the 3rd quarter? When OU got close to the goal line, Bob Stoops ordered the running backs to fall down before they got to the line of scrimmage.

[Karlifornia]

Congrats to Georgia, btw...they had a great season. I would have liked to have seen Hawaii make a game of it, but you can't blame Georgia for that.

Now we get a snoozer in Kansas/va Tech, and another snoozer in LSU/Ohio State. I'll watch anyway, which just means I'm pathetic.

[CU Tiger]

Remember three years ago when OU was beating Texas A&M 77-0 midway through the 3rd quarter? When OU got close to the goal line, Bob Stoops ordered the running backs to fall down before they got to the line of scrimmage.

Which to me is twice as embarassing.
I mean really whast the difference between 77 and 84. However when a RB kneels on you, thats embarassing.

I agree you pull the starters and play the backups, but thats it. If your 2nds are that much better than their 1sts then so be it, score a few and put the 3rds in. Eventually you have to find a game, right?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Earlier when I said that the odds of scoring were less with Cox in at QB for Georgia, I really wasn't kidding.

He's completed less than half his passes this year, while Lumpkin has average just over 4 ypc in limited duty. Three straight passes by Cox seem quite a bit less likely to produce another touchdown than just pounding Lumpkin or the FB at Hawaii from the 5 yd line.

[Vegas Vic]

Which to me is twice as embarassing.
I mean really whast the difference between 77 and 84. However when a RB kneels on you, thats embarassing.

No, he actually told them to slip and fall down, but make it look good. I kid you not, one of the jackass defensive linemen for A&M started jumping up and down after 4th down, as if they had made a great goal line stand.

[sooner333]

No, he actually told them to slip and fall down, but make it look good. I kid you not, one of the jackass defensive linemen for A&M started jumping up and down after 4th down, as if they had made a great goal line stand.

I think Thompson kneeled on first down, then they realized that was pretty embarassing, so they did the everyone fall down move. Either way, A&M had given up when Fran told them to use a running clock. So whatever, get out of there unhurt if that's what you want to do--there's really no game when the other team stops trying. I probably would have tried to punch it in, but in that case, do whatever. Today, Hawaii was obviously trying--so give them a game...anything less and people risk greater injury.

BTW, funny story about that A&M game--I had heard that the only reason the FB carried the ball at all in that game (the FB never carries the ball at Oklahoma...at least not since Seth Littrell in 2000) was because Mike Stoops and Brent Venables took over offensive playcalling after it got to be 77-0.

[Atocep]

I know some folks will sleep on WVU without Rodriguez, but I think the WVU-Oklahoma game will be the best BCS game. From all accounts that I have heard, the Mountaineers have had very good practice without Rodriguez and have kind of mellowed out, a bit (going from the very strict Rodriguez to a more player-friendly coach in Bill Stewart--which can sometimes do the trick for a struggling/uptight ballclub in the short term).

If nothing else, it would be great to see Bill Stewart coach this team to a win tomorrow. There's not a nicer or more down to earth guy in college football.

[wade moore]

It absolutely thrills me to see Hawaii getting thrashed. Many have said that they did not belong in a BCS bowl (Mizzou should have been in one) but you get their ignorant fans saying otherwise. Now we get 4 1/2 pages of stuff on the game and yet there are those still defending the choice?!?! Like someone said, Boise State last year was a fluke and when you get a team that could barely beat some pretty bad teams, it really comes down to the grownups telling the little kids to shut up. (checking the score again...). So there.

I was all ready to make a post and then saw that Bucc already said it all.

What he said. It's absurd that there are still defenders out there. Yes, it was "inevitable" as many of us have been saying for months now.

[wade moore]

BTW the warriors will cover if not win the game outright.
O RLY?

[Schmidty]

I was all ready to make a post and then saw that Bucc already said it all.

What he said. It's absurd that there are still defenders out there. Yes, it was "inevitable" as many of us have been saying for months now.

See, I don't get this. I am thrashed all the time because I am "hard" on U-M, the Packers, etc., but when others randomly hate on other teams, they have no vested interest in, it's cool.

I actually think it's lame to trash teams that you have nothing to do with (Patriots, ND, etc.) just because you want to them to fail, even though you have close connection with them. That, to me, is waaaaaaay more lame than the random U-M fan (puke) degrading everything OSU football does, even if they are succeeding.

I actually have no idea what my point was at this point. I basically hate everyone's team, so this is a stupid post.

[astrosfan64]

O RLY?

I thought this was the NBA basketball thread. I meant the golden state warriors :)

Oh well, my hatred of the SEC blinds me to realism at times.

[astrosfan64]

See, I don't get this. I am thrashed all the time because I am "hard" on U-M, the Packers, etc., but when others randomly hate on other teams, they have no vested interest in, it's cool.

I actually think it's lame to trash teams that you have nothing to do with (Patriots, ND, etc.) just because you want to them to fail, even though you have close connection with them. That, to me, is waaaaaaay more lame than the random U-M fan (puke) degrading everything OSU football does, even if they are succeeding.

I actually have no idea what my point was at this point. I basically hate everyone's team, so this is a stupid post.

You sure you aren't from Philly? I thought that was something reserved for Philly fans. I know i hate every team other then my own.

[bronconick]

It absolutely thrills me to see Hawaii getting thrashed. Many have said that they did not belong in a BCS bowl (Mizzou should have been in one) but you get their ignorant fans saying otherwise. Now we get 4 1/2 pages of stuff on the game and yet there are those still defending the choice?!?! Like someone said, Boise State last year was a fluke and when you get a team that could barely beat some pretty bad teams, it really comes down to the grownups telling the little kids to shut up. (checking the score again...). So there.


Yes, because those eligible 3 loss BCS teams that would be getting the shot instead regularly acquit themselves with glory. (Hi, Illinois! Howdy, 2006 Notre Dame!) Missouri, Florida? Ineligible. Go complain that they should let 3 teams in from a conference then. The other was, what, Boston College? They needed 4 turnovers from 7-5 Michigan State to hold on. Georgia and/or USC would have embarressed them, too. Arizona State? I think Texas is still scoring on them.

Hawai'i probably doesn't make it in a "normal" year. But since everyone else kept tripping over their own feet, you're stuck with them.

[wade moore]

See, I don't get this. I am thrashed all the time because I am "hard" on U-M, the Packers, etc., but when others randomly hate on other teams, they have no vested interest in, it's cool.

I actually think it's lame to trash teams that you have nothing to do with (Patriots, ND, etc.) just because you want to them to fail, even though you have close connection with them. That, to me, is waaaaaaay more lame than the random U-M fan (puke) degrading everything OSU football does, even if they are succeeding.

I actually have no idea what my point was at this point. I basically hate everyone's team, so this is a stupid post.

It's not so much a hatred for Hawaii as it is a hatred for the fact that a more deserving team doesn't get a shot.

[Schmidty]

I am off tonight, and I messed up my punctuation and left out some important words such as "no" and "and" and etc. And. So take it with a grain of poop.

[Blade6119]

Honestly, Michigan vs Florida will end up being the most exciting game of the bowl season. Nothing left seems that appealing at all.

Id argue some of the earlier bowls were more exciting, but they werent between traditional powers

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, because those eligible 3 loss BCS teams that would be getting the shot instead regularly acquit themselves with glory. (Hi, Illinois! Howdy, 2006 Notre Dame!) Missouri, Florida? Ineligible. Go complain that they should let 3 teams in from a conference then. The other was, what, Boston College? They needed 4 turnovers from 7-5 Michigan State to hold on. Georgia and/or USC would have embarressed them, too. Arizona State? I think Texas is still scoring on them.

Hawai'i probably doesn't make it in a "normal" year. But since everyone else kept tripping over their own feet, you're stuck with them.

Oh, exactly. The reason I'm not getting on this "undeserving" bandwagon is because Georgia would have embarrassed the teams that would have gotten in if Hawai'i finished the year losing to Boise State. Because of the "only 2 teams per conference" rule neither Mizzou nor Florida makes it (well, good that Florida doesn't make it because that Michigan game was great and UM spanked them). Arizona State or BC would have been your choices. Yes, that ASU that got destroyed by Texas. And yes, that BC that barely could beat Michigan State.

[Logan]

Then why don't teams go to Hawaii and beat up on a supposed "patsy". I know that game weeks are mostly business, but I think any visiting player would favor looking at palm trees and sunshine rather than, say, Piscataway New Jersey.

You seriously underestimate how much visiting players enjoy eating Fat Bitches.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Although Mizzou would have obviously love to go to a BCS game, it looks as though the Cotton Bowl bid may have been a blessing in disguise for our program.

1. Game sold out in less than 24 hours, which should help our program next year when bowls consider our program.

2. Got a huge win which most analysts pointed to and said, "That team should have been in the BCS."

3. Texas is a big recruiting area for Mizzou. Several of the recruits that Mizzou is pursuing were at the game yesterday and recruiting sites are saying that Mizzou will land those recruits.

Always nice to end the season with a big win.

On a sidenote, Pat Summerall should be euthanized.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Some more good stuff on the best bowl game to date.

p.s. Suck it haterz!


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>CAPITAL ONE BOWL -- MICHIGAN 41, FLORIDA 35
MICHAEL ROSENBERG: Hail to the victor! Carr rides off into retirement with bowl victory

The scene that inspired U-M to win it for Carr

January 2, 2008
BY MICHAEL ROSENBERG
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

ORLANDO -- Lloyd Carr had coached 161 1/2 games at Michigan and had 1/2 left. His team, a double-digit underdog, led ninth-ranked Florida, 21-14, but the way this game was going, the lead was tenuous.
Carr told his Wolverines what he has told them, in some form, for 13 seasons. Win this game for each other. And that's when defensive coordinator Ron English stood up and did what assistant coaches are nerr supposed to do. He cut off the boss. "(Bleep) that!" English said, accroding to fellow assistant Fred Jackson. "We're doing it for Coach Carr!"

This was what Carr had resisted all year, when he did not even tell his own coaches he planned to retire, for fear it would distract them. Bo Schembechler had drilled it into everybody associated with U-M football for years: the team, the team, the team.

And here was Ron English, a Michigan assistant for five years, saying what nobody had said all week.

The Wolverines, senior safety Jamar Adams said, "went crazy."

And what did Carr think?

"It got half out of me to say, 'No,' " Carr said afterward. "But Ron's a great motivator. In some way, it meant a lot ... it was special."

The game was special, in a way that non-Bowl Championship Series games rarely are. U-M beat Florida, 41-35, Tuesday in the Capital One Bowl to send Carr off a winner, and to make a statement that badly needed to be made. As recruiting coordinator Chris Singletary, a former player, said in the victorious locker room:

"We're still Michigan."

Still Michigan. U-M was supposed to have no chance in this game, yet the Wolverines clearly outplayed Florida. They outgained the Gators, 524 yards to 399. They finished with the same record as the Gators: 9-4. And they won in a manner that, frankly, has not been seen from this program much lately.

The Wolverines beat a spread offense. They beat a running quarterback. They ran plenty of reverses and misdirection plays -- the kind that have been missing for much of this season.

They committed four turnovers and still won. They committed eight penalties, including a couple of remarkably dumb ones. Senior Mike Hart, who had not lost a fumble in more than 1,000 touches, lost two.
"If we would have lost, it would have been nobody's fault but mine," Hart said. "It would have been on my back."

Why did they win it? As quarterbacks coach Scot Loeffler said in the press box elevator, the victory in hand, "we're a pretty good team when we're healthy."

Senior Chad Henne, finally recovered from his separated shoulder, completed 25 of 39 passes for 373 yards and three touchdowns. He did throw two interceptions, although one was on a batted pass. Hart, who battled an ankle injury all season, ran for 129 yards and two touchdowns.
Many fans will wonder what would have happened if Michigan had players like this all year. The Wolverines will look at it as proof that they are the team they always believed they could be.

Beating the defending national champions and Heisman-winning quarterback Tim Tebow, in what basically amounted to a road game, was the most rewarding victory of their lives. They sent their coach out with the knowledge that Michigan had not fallen nearly as far as people said.
"It's emotional because this is the last time this coaching staff is going to be together, this team is going to be together," senior captain Shawn Crable said. "So what is our legacy for this team? What will people say when they look at pictures, when they look at banners, when they look at things that say we were in this bowl ... what are they gonna think about?"

The naked truth

How giddy were the Wolverines? In the postgame locker room, as Carr got ready to address his team, a chant broke out:

"Lloyd -- take off your clothes! Lloyd -- get naked!"

And I thought: All these years, Carr wouldn't let reporters in the locker room. I didn't realize how lucky we were.

Thankfully, mammoth offensive lineman Jake Long, perhaps fearing that Carr would oblige, started the more traditional "It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine!" chant. They then segued into a different take on the "Rocky" chant: "Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloyd! Lloyd, Lloyd, Lloooooooooyd."

And then Carr gave the last postgame speech of his coaching career.
He talked about the talk that 1969 captain Jim Mandich had given the night before. Mandich recalled his words for me Tuesday night. An excerpt:

"I made my vows to the University of Michigan in the spring of 1967, without qualification. Although we are separated by four decades ... we are brothers."

Mandich was the captain of the 1969 team that sprang the famous 24-12 upset on No. 1 Ohio State, starting a 38-year era of basically uninterrupted success. He sent his son Mike to play for Carr. So he knows Michigan tradition.

While many U-M fans moaned about the loss to Appalachian State and 8-4 season, Mandich saw something else. He saw a team that was embarrassed in its first two games and came back to contend for a Big Ten title.

"A lot of teams would have cracked," Mandich said. "They just didn't allow it."

Mandich, who lives in Florida, talked about Urban Meyer's reputation as the "genius coach" and the Gators' standing as "the hip and the cool" of college football.

Michigan, Mandich knows, has not been hip or cool in at least a half-century. Hip and cool were never goals.

Mandich said he was "dizzy" before the speech because he was worried he'd mess up. No worries, Jim. The players and coaches loved every word.
"That's what the tradition is here," Carr told his team. "It's not just the team that's playing. Every guy that wore that uniform, every guy that played here. They care."

The pressure to win

A few months ago, I participated in a forum at the University of Michigan about athletes as role models. One member of the panel gave a long talk about how college athletes are viewed as pillars of the community.
When the forum was opened up for audience participation, a young man asked for the microphone.

"When I was being recruited," Jamar Adams said then, "and coaches were in my living room, they didn't talk about being pillars of society. They talked about winning the national championship."

This team never did it. Until Tuesday, these seniors were 0-3 in bowls, and they will forever be 0-4 against Ohio State. Adams has been a pillar of the community, but some fans will define him by that record.

I asked Adams if the criticism can be disillusioning.

"When you put this uniform on, you understand the tradition," Adams said. "There were 127 teams before this one. Whatever you have to deal with to wear this uniform, you deal with. When we lose, they're gonna harass us. When we win, they're gonna harass us -- they're gonna say we didn't win (by) enough. It's what you take when you come to this school.

"Coach Carr understands that. We all understand that. You want to win, but you want to win the right way. ... He's a father figure to me. Under all the stress, he keeps his character."

Long after the game ended, with the buses running, Lloyd Carr emerged from the locker room for the last time. His tie was hanging around his head. He had a lit cigar in his hand.

How long had he been saving the cigar?

He smiled.

"I'm trying to quit," he said.

He just did that, of course.

Some day, they might wish he hadn't.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Honolulu_Blue]

Spare me. Everyone was pushing him out the door, and now you wanna rep that bullshit? Were you calling for his job to saved, or even for people to stop being hard on him? If so, I'll back off. If not, this sounds like someone co-opting something they had no belief in. Like Rudy's parents from that one movie...I think it was called...Rudy?

I never called for Lloyd Carr to be fired. Ever. So, back off, suckah! Lloyd Carr did a lot of great things for the school. Was it time for a change? Yeah, I think it was, but I wasn't one crying out for it. It was a great game and wonderful to see a classy, good man go out on top.