Who better rookie season: Adrian Peterson or Reggie Bush?

[Raiders Army]

With Adrian Peterson winning Offensive Rookie of the year, let's compare his stats to Reggie Bush's stats last year:

Rookie stats:


Player G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng T/O
Reggie Bush 16 8 155 565 6 18 3.6 88 742 8.4 2 74 3
Adrian Peterson 14 0 238 1341 12 73 5.6 19 268 14.1 1 60 3

Of course, yardage isn't the most important stat, but it is important. It's interesting to see how much Peterson contributed to his team vs. Bush. I think both rookies contributed greatly, but I'd give the edge to Peterson since without Peterson on the Vikings I'd doubt they would do nearly as well...then again the Vikes didn't make the playoffs, but the Saints did last year.

[Logan]

Not even a contest.

[MikeVic]

I think Peterson hands-down had the better rookie season.

[ISiddiqui]

I think Adrian Peterson vs. Joe Thomas may be a closer poll.

[vex]

AD had 9 starts.

[Logan]

I think Adrian Peterson vs. Joe Thomas may be a closer poll.

He really was deserving...but for an OT to win it, he would need to be going up a group of very average performers, let alone a guy who led the NFC in rushing in limited chances and rolled out the greatest single rushing performance ever.

[ISiddiqui]

He really was deserving...but for an OT to win it, he would need to be going up a group of very average performers, let alone a guy who led the NFC in rushing in limited chances and rolled out the greatest single rushing performance ever.

The good part is that we aren't bound by what the voters for Offensive Rookie of the Year use to weigh things ;).

And people may still think Joe Thomas was more valuable than Reggie Bush.

[Atocep]

Peterson's rookie year blows Bush's away, its not even close. However, Peterson is too boom or bust at this point. His DVOA was only 12th among running backs becuase of his 45% success rate. Still a great player, but unless the Vikings upgrade their quarterback Peterson will see a lot of the 8-man fronts that shut him down toward the end of the year.

Joe Thomas was very good this year, but if Marcus McNeil didn't win the rookie of the year last year then an offensive tackle is never going to win the award.

[cartman]

Devin Hester has become the gamebreaker most people thought Bush would be.

[Vegas Vic]

Reggie Bush just has *it*. Any you can't measure *it* by statistical means, so the comparison isn't fair to Reggie.

[Huckleberry]

The funniest thing about this comparison is that neither Trojan supporters or Sooner supporters wanted to agree with me (particularly Trojan supporters).

Reggie Bush is not the type of runner that will be overly productive in the NFL. Never was. I was just a Vince Young homer when it came to the draft, though. Reggie Bush doesn't run inside. He can't make himself do it.

Meanwhile, Adrian Peterson is a badass when allowed to build up a head of steam. Playing him a little deeper in the backfield is a good thing. With a good OL he is dominant. He turns 100 yard days into 200 yard days. But without holes, he suffers more than your average back looking for daylight. And odds are he will miss time with injuries.

But Peterson is obviously a better running back than Bush, especially for the NFL, and always was. No comparison there.

[Rizon]

Peterson = good
Bush = massive bust, 3rd string running back AT BEST. More like a 6, 7th round pick or an undrafted FA signee.

[Pyser]

wow, 23-0 so far

[Karlifornia]

With Adrian Peterson winning Offensive Rookie of the year, let's compare his stats to Reggie Bush's stats last year:

Rookie stats:


Player G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng T/O
Reggie Bush 16 8 155 565 6 18 3.6 88 742 8.4 2 74 3
Adrian Peterson 14 0 238 1341 12 73 5.6 19 268 14.1 1 60 3

Of course, yardage isn't the most important stat, but it is important. It's interesting to see how much Peterson contributed to his team vs. Bush. I think both rookies contributed greatly, but I'd give the edge to Peterson since without Peterson on the Vikings I'd doubt they would do nearly as well...then again the Vikes didn't make the playoffs, but the Saints did last year.


Please, buddy. Even asking this question is silly. You have an agenda.

[Cap Ologist]

Isn't Reggie Bush nothing more than a glorified Eric Metcalf/Dave Meggett type?

[Deattribution]

This isn't even close... I could see doing maybe Maurice Jones Drew vs Bush but this is like asking whether you'd select Barry Sanders or Curtis Enis to build your team around.

Bush might still turn it around and be great (it depends how bad he wants it, he has talent), but Peterson til the latter part of the season looked like a top 3 running back.

[IMetTrentGreen]

Haha. It's an insult to Peterson to mention him along side Reggie Bust. Bush wasn't even the best running back on his own team, at USC or New Orleans.

Sidenote, the Reggie Bust was a complete typo, and I am keeping it.

[Rizon]

Isn't Reggie Bush nothing more than a glorified Eric Metcalf/Dave Meggett type?

I thought that at first, but I don't even think he has those skills. He's a screen catching RB.

[Lathum]

The Texans got it right.

[Eaglesfan27]

Isn't Reggie Bush nothing more than a glorified Eric Metcalf/Dave Meggett type?


I don't think defenses ever gameplanned and shifted around to stop Meggett or Metcalf like they do Bush. Vegas Vic is right, Bush has the "it" factor and teams gameplan to stop him and it opens up things for everyone else. His versatility makes him a very good player and once he improves his inside running, he'll be a great player. That being said, Adrian Peterson had an impressive rookie season and I'd give him the nod.

[larrymcg421]

How about Bush vs. random Dolphins RB?

Player G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng T/O
Reggie Bush 16 8 155 565 6 18 3.6 88 742 8.4 2 74 3
Terry Kirby 16 8 118 390 3 20 3.3 75 874 11.7 3 47 5

[flere-imsaho]

Joe Thomas was very good this year, but if Marcus McNeil didn't win the rookie of the year last year then an offensive tackle is never going to win the award.

Yep. In my mind Joe Thomas easily meant more to his team than any other rookie this year. Without him the Browns aren't even in the playoff hunt and Anderson's completion percentage goes down about 5%.

Bush = massive bust, 3rd string running back AT BEST. More like a 6, 7th round pick or an undrafted FA signee.

Maybe. In my mind, Bush could be like Brian Westbrook if a) he applies himself and b) the team he's on decides to use him in that manner. Although Westbrook was obviously a lot less heralded, I remember people saying all the same things about him ("he can't be a #1" "he can't run inside") when they let Staley go.

But there are a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" there.

[Huckleberry]

I don't think defenses ever gameplanned and shifted around to stop Meggett or Metcalf like they do Bush. Vegas Vic is right, Bush has the "it" factor and teams gameplan to stop him and it opens up things for everyone else. His versatility makes him a very good player and once he improves his inside running, he'll be a great player. That being said, Adrian Peterson had an impressive rookie season and I'd give him the nod.

I'm pretty sure Vic was being sarcastic. The only "it" that Bush has shown he has is hype.

[Logan]

The Texans got it right.

Amazing how it looks like they'll have the last laugh. Maybe this will cause people to wait, I don't know, more than a week to evaluate a draft class. By my count, Williams is the 4th "best player of the class" since it came to be and there are serious questions about the legitimacy of the first 3 (Leinart, Young, Bush).

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm pretty sure Vic was being sarcastic. The only "it" that Bush has shown he has is hype.

You are probably right, but the fact of the matter is that in his rookie season, teams were gameplanning to stop Bush and it opened up plays for other guys, so my point stands.

[rkmsuf]

"it" for a running back in football is production

beyond that you are fooling yourself


oh and how dare you call terry kirby random

[larrymcg421]

"it" for a running back in football is production

beyond that you are fooling yourself


oh and how dare you call terry kirby random

Because he performed to about the same level as other Dolphins RB's during the Marino era and was actually a worse runner than most of them. He had good pass receiving skills, but so did Tony Nathan, Troy Stradford, and Bobby Humphrey.

[flere-imsaho]

"it" for a running back in football is production

Yes, but....

Let's say that "production" for a RB is generally measured in yards/carry and the ability to get tough first downs. You need to be able to produce well in these two areas to be considered "good".

If that's the case, then I'd say "it" as a RB is something on top of this, which could be two different things.

First, the ability to make the defense feel that they just can't stop you. Peterson had a few games this year where he was gaining 6+ every time he touched the ball, for instance. In those games you saw the defense basically pack up and go home. It's got to be incredibly demoralizing. Obviously a lot of that is still the O-Line as well, but still.... LT also has games like this, Alexander from a couple of years ago, and the occasional Jamal Lewis day, for instance.

Second, exceptional versatility can also be "it", I'd propose. I think this is what a lot of people were hoping out of Bush. Again, I think the exemplar for this is Westbrook, though LT also fits the mold. Westbrook lines up in the backfield, as a WR, takes screens, takes dump-offs, etc.... He can do so much, and is such a threat when he's gotten the ball, that opposing defenses have to account for him, which then exposes something elsewhere.

[rkmsuf]

are we really trying to say bush has accomplished something by being gameplanned for and taken away? whoope de damn do. call me when he's gameplanned for and is making plays.

[GreenMonster]

I saw "it" this season and he didn't play for the Saints. Do people realize that AP had almost as many yards rushing in the Chicago and San Diego games than Reggie "it" Bush had all year. Bush had 5 games of 100+ yards recieving and rushing this year, Peterson topped 100 yards alone rushing 6 times. Bush has 1136 yards rushing in his 1st 2 years, AP 1341, out totally 2 games.

[Eaglesfan27]

are we really trying to say bush has accomplished something by being gameplanned for and taken away? whoope de damn do. call me when he's gameplanned for and is making plays.


That is only part of what I'm saying. When he arrived, the offense went from 20th in the league to #1 in the league in yardage per game. Obviously, part of that is Drew Brees, but Brees never did that in SD where his best year they were 10th in the league despite having LT. The passing offense went from 14th in the league before Bush's arrival to 1st. Bush's receptions were 10th in the league with a long of 74. That homerun potential every time he touched the ball, drew guys away with him when he went in motion, which opened things up for Colston and the rest of the team. I'm not saying he had a better season than Adrian Peterson or that he is even a great player yet. However, I think it is ridiculous to label him a bust or a 3rd string running back. I think next year he is going to keep learning about the NFL game and have a year that will compare favorably with some of Westbrook's best years.

[albionmoonlight]

Bush's first year, I thought that he really started to "get it" by the end of the season, and I thought that he would really explode going forward. I thought that his ceiling was a more explosive Thurman Thomas, and that he had a pretty good chance to reach that ceiling.

Having watched him for another year, I think that he is more likely to become "a rich man's Larry Centers."

As a Saints fan, I fear that we might have the Michael Vick of running backs--the kind of guy that a coach feels compelled to build an offense around, but who isn't really good enough to have an offense built around him.

[albionmoonlight]

Oh, and all that said, I agree that it is foolish to call the guy a 3rd string back or a 6th round pick. The man is still a starting caliber player in the NFL. He is not a super-duper star, but that does not mean that he sucks. He falls somewhere in between.

[rkmsuf]

That's all well and good. At some point you have to make plays with all this explosive ability. You don't draft decoys at 1.1

Bottom line is this guy had a lousy season. Maybe he can transform himself into the caliber player he is portrayed as. Don't know. Right now I kind of doubt it. 3.7 yards per carry and 7.2 yards per catch. That's one expensive decoy.

[Raiders Army]

Please, buddy. Even asking this question is silly. You have an agenda.

Not really. I just remember the discussions around Reggie Bush last year. Much like looking at the Vick trade with the Chargers, it's interesting to look back at the draft and think about if teams made smart decisions. In a lot of ways, I thought that the Raiders should've traded up to get Vince Young instead of Michael Huff last year and I'm not sure if they've made smart decisions in the draft as well.

I'd say that the sample set of looking at one year for RBs is too small to accurately predict what they'll do for their careers, but the comparison here is just looking at who had the better rookie season.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Who better career: Tom Brady or Gus Frerotte?!?!??

[cartman]

Who better career: Tom Brady or Gus Frerotte?!?!??

Until Brady headbutts a concrete wall, I have to go with Gus.

[RomaGoth]

I am not convinced that Reggie Bush is the great running back that he was hyped up to be. He has had to share time with Deuce in New Orleans, so we will really see what he can do when he has the #1 spot on the roster. I am not sure that he can carry a full load through an entire NFL season. Adrian Peterson is the real deal. Another player that the Detroit Lions and Miami Dolphins let go. Calvin Johnson? Meh....Ted Ginn, Jr.? Meh...

[larrymcg421]

I am not convinced that Reggie Bush is the great running back that he was hyped up to be. He has had to share time with Deuce in New Orleans, so we will really see what he can do when he has the #1 spot on the roster. I am not sure that he can carry a full load through an entire NFL season. Adrian Peterson is the real deal. Another player that the Detroit Lions and Miami Dolphins let go. Calvin Johnson? Meh....Ted Ginn, Jr.? Meh...

Why are you obsessed with the Dolphins getting a running back? Ginn was a terrible pick, but our running game was far from the major problem this year, and was actually pretty damned good until Ronnie Brown went down. The Dolphins need to address about 500 other issues before they even think about the running game.

[RomaGoth]

Why are you obsessed with the Dolphins getting a running back? Ginn was a terrible pick, but our running game was far from the major problem this year, and was actually pretty damned good until Ronnie Brown went down. The Dolphins need to address about 500 other issues before they even think about the running game.

I am not obsessed with a running back. I am just saying that Miami could (and should) have taken Peterson instead of Ginn. It was a wasted pick. I agree that there are 500 other issues to be fixed. I believe Parcells will help with that process. My concern is that Brown will not be the same player he was before the injury. Look at Cadillac Williams in Tampa. He has been injury riddled with them. I have seen a lot of players come back after a major injury and not be nearly as effective.

[Daimyo]

Is this a joke? Bush isn't even in the top 3 among running backs in his draft class.

[Blade6119]

One could argue this point effectively:

Saints went from a bottom dweller to the super bowl in Bush's first season, the Vikings went from average to average with Peterson...

I personally have always thought Peterson was the best RB to come into the draft in a decade, but my biggest fear is injuries. They didnt seem to hit this year, but i still truly believe he will be a 5-6 game a year player a few years from now.

[Galaxy]

I am not convinced that Reggie Bush is the great running back that he was hyped up to be. He has had to share time with Deuce in New Orleans, so we will really see what he can do when he has the #1 spot on the roster. I am not sure that he can carry a full load through an entire NFL season. Adrian Peterson is the real deal. Another player that the Detroit Lions and Miami Dolphins let go. Calvin Johnson? Meh....Ted Ginn, Jr.? Meh...

I think it's too soon to judge this year's (or even last year's) draft class.

As much as I love the speed of Ginn, I think he was a bad pick. Johnson, I think, will be a top receiver over time (provided Detroit continues to get better).


I don't see why Miami would take Peterson, when they spent a top pick the year before on Brown. Of course, you do realize that Miami had the 9th pick, and Minnesota plucked Peterson at the 7th pick?

[larrymcg421]

One could argue this point effectively:

Saints went from a bottom dweller to the super bowl in Bush's first season, the Vikings went from average to average with Peterson...


You could argue that point, but not effectively. The Saints improvement also coincided with the arrival of Drew Brees. You'd have to completely ignore that, or try to argue that Tarvaris Jackson is as good as Drew Brees.

[nfg22]

You are probably right, but the fact of the matter is that in his rookie season, teams were gameplanning to stop Bush and it opened up plays for other guys, so my point stands.

If you want to say that putting eight men in the box isn't game planning against AP, then your point is valid. Though some could say AP didnt produce when this started hapenning. Overall AP has a horrible offense without him, Bush's...well they are almost better without him.

[SteveMax58]

I personally have always thought Peterson was the best RB to come into the draft in a decade, but my biggest fear is injuries. They didnt seem to hit this year, but i still truly believe he will be a 5-6 game a year player a few years from now.

Absolutely agree with this. I felt AP was great...but...will not last for more than 3-4 years semi-fulltime, if that. It's impossible to say any RB will last for 10 years and gain 1000 or more yards each year...but I believe AP's college career & running style indicate he will be great, but for only a few seasons.

This is one of the main reasons why I dont place a ton of value on RB's early in the draft. In general, it's reasonably straightforward to judge "talent", but nearly impossible to judge longevity & durability...and both is what I believe you should be targeting with a first round pick(namely a top 10).

[SteveMax58]

Dola (my first dola)

To the original point of the poll...it isnt even close. AP out-did Bush by week 9...and I'm not just talking statistically...but also as a real force that is extremely difficult to stop, even when you gameplan him correctly.

I think somebody else made a really good observation that Hester has become what everybody expected Bush to be. I think that's spot-on...but I do believe Bush has the ability to still become that type of gamebreaker.

Bush is similar to Ginn to me in this regard...yes they both have gamebreaking talent...but you have to realize you are not getting a 30-50 snaps a game, 16 game player. And you can't try and make Bush a fulltime 3 down back, or Ginn a #1 WR. They just arent built for that in the NFL.

[MizzouRah]

Is this even a serious question?

AP by a Looooooooooooooooooooong margin.

[johnnyshaka]

If you want to say that putting eight men in the box isn't game planning against AP, then your point is valid. Though some could say AP didnt produce when this started hapenning. Overall AP has a horrible offense without him, Bush's...well they are almost better without him.

Hmm...funny that the Vikes didn't have a problem winning both games AP missed behind Taylor and his 300 yards of offense and 4 TDs.

AP has talent...agreed...but what does it say when Taylor can mirror his production?

[Deattribution]

AP has talent...agreed...but what does it say when Taylor can mirror his production?

What does it say when the entire league can mirror Bush's production?

[rkmsuf]

who better explosive decoy or productive injury prone

thanks

[cartman]

If you miss on first round draft pick, just make two picks next year. Keep picking until you win. If you miss on 32 first round picks, maybe football isn't your game.

[larrymcg421]

Hmm...funny that the Vikes didn't have a problem winning both games AP missed behind Taylor and his 300 yards of offense and 4 TDs.

AP has talent...agreed...but what does it say when Taylor can mirror his production?

Nice try to combine the two games to make both of them look good. In the 2nd game, he had 31 carries for 77 yards.

Taylor had a great year, but Peterson still had a higher YPC and fewer fumbles.

[rkmsuf]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

--------------------------------------------------------
Although their relationship has just been made public, sources close to Kim Kardashian, 27, say she is engaged to former Heisman winner Reggie Bush, 22. OK! Magazine reports

[johnnyshaka]

Nice try to combine the two games to make both of them look good. In the 2nd game, he had 31 carries for 77 yards.


Oh...my mistake...I didn't realize I was supposed to point out that every week after his record setting day, save for Week 13, Peterson looked ordinary.

[Logan]

Oh...my mistake...I didn't realize I was supposed to point out that every week after his record setting day, save for Week 13, Peterson looked ordinary.

Should someone point out that before his record setting day, his worst effort was 20 for 66? How many RBs would kill for that?

How about that after his record setting day, save for Week 13, he missed 2 games and had, among those 5 games, 4 games in which his carries were 11, 14, 9, and 11. When you're saying a 20-78-2 is ordinary, it means the player is pretty fucking special. All while on a torn knee ligament.

We can also look at the four games that completed LaDainian Tomlinson's rookie year. He had a 27-145, but also 19-51, 17-46, and 14-38, with no TDs in any of those games. When he was healthy.

[larrymcg421]

Oh...my mistake...I didn't realize I was supposed to point out that every week after his record setting day, save for Week 13, Peterson looked ordinary.

You could point out that every year other than 2007, Taylor looked ordinary. And even in what his by far the best season of his career, he STILL did not match Peterson's rookie production.

But either way, my point is that adding a 31-77 game in with a 22-164 game to say he played two great games is pretty silly. You can mix and match stats however you want, but Peterson was clearly better this season.

[johnnyshaka]

But either way, my point is that adding a 31-77 game in with a 22-164 game to say he played two great games is pretty silly.

When did I say he played two great games? What I said was he had 300 yards of offense and 4 TDs in the two games AP missed.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Taylor is a better back than AP...not at all...what I am getting at is that the Vikes O-Line deserves a lot of credit. If you disagree, then please explain to me how an ordinary back like Taylor can put up the numbers he put up this season...a whole 0.2 YPC less than AP.

[larrymcg421]

When did I say he played two great games? What I said was he had 300 yards of offense and 4 TDs in the two games AP missed.

Right. You were just quoting his stats and not making any point whatsoever about the quality of those stats and how it related to AP's skill. Gotcha.

[albionmoonlight]

All while on a torn knee ligament.

I'm the guy who called Reggie Bush the rich man's Larry Centers. But even I have to say if we are going to start using a player's injuries as a positive, then I must note that Bush played 1/2 the season with the same injury as AP.

I, however, think that injuries should not really factor in as a positive for players. Bush and AP did what they did. Whether they did it injured or not isn't really relevant. As a fan, I don't care if a guy can't play well because he sucks or because he has an ouchie. I just care about how he plays.

[Logan]

I'm the guy who called Reggie Bush the rich man's Larry Centers. But even I have to say if we are going to start using a player's injuries as a positive, then I must note that Bush played 1/2 the season with the same injury as AP.

I, however, think that injuries should not really factor in as a positive for players. Bush and AP did what they did. Whether they did it injured or not isn't really relevant. As a fan, I don't care if a guy can't play well because he sucks or because he has an ouchie. I just care about how he plays.

That comment had nothing to do with ADP vs Bush, just the ridiculous comment that johnny posted.

[johnnyshaka]

That comment had nothing to do with ADP vs Bush, just the ridiculous comment that johnny posted.

LOL!!

My ridiculous comment pointing out that AP was not a superstar every game, particularly in the last half of the season? Is that such a ridiculous comment? Maybe you should have a look at how they both played (or didn't play) from Week 10 on. And, again, my point being, give credit where credit is due...AP didn't put up all these numbers on his own because Taylor put up very comparable numbers and he's just an "ordinary" back.

[Logan]

LOL!!

My ridiculous comment pointing out that AP was not a superstar every game, particularly in the last half of the season? Is that such a ridiculous comment? Maybe you should have a look at how they both played (or didn't play) from Week 10 on. And, again, my point being, give credit where credit is due...AP didn't put up all these numbers on his own because Taylor put up very comparable numbers and he's just an "ordinary" back.

You picked a sample of four games where he averaged 11 carries a game and described him as just ordinary, and threw out "after his record setting day" as if it was one random game and he wasn't the best back in football for the 8 weeks before that as well.

I can point to any great RB in the history of football (which I did with LT) and find a similar stretch. It means nothing.

[Synovia]

Is this really a question?


AP looks like a once in a generation talent. Reggie Bush is the poor man's Kevin Faulk.

[Synovia]

EDIT: I'm not saying that Taylor is a better back than AP...not at all...what I am getting at is that the Vikes O-Line deserves a lot of credit. If you disagree, then please explain to me how an ordinary back like Taylor can put up the numbers he put up this season...a whole 0.2 YPC less than AP.


Do you watch ANY football? When AP comes out, and Taylor goes in, defensive strategies completely change.

This is for 2 reasons:

1) AP is a VASTLY SUPERIOR runner.
2) AP is a really shitty blocker and chester taylor is a good one.


Chester Taylor runs quite a bit in passing sets. If its a passing set, AP isn't on the field. AP ALWAYS faces a defense geared up to stop the run, CT doesnt. Why? Because AP is a liability on passing downs. He'll most likely get better, but right now, when he comes on the field, everyone knows hes getting the ball. When CT comes on the field, the defense has to atleast acknowledge the pass.

[johnnyshaka]

You picked a sample of four games where he averaged 11 carries a game and described him as just ordinary, and threw out "after his record setting day" as if it was one random game and he wasn't the best back in football for the 8 weeks before that as well.


Ok, I'll spell it out, the Vikes had the best running game in the NFL this season with over 2600 yards and averaged 5.3 YPC. Peterson had half of those yards and averaged 5.6 YPC. So the rest of those yards came from a group of guys averaging 5.0 YPC. The offensive line had a huge part in AP's success.

[Synovia]

Ok, I'll spell it out, the Vikes had the best running game in the NFL this season with over 2600 yards and averaged 5.3 YPC. Peterson had half of those yards and averaged 5.6 YPC. So the rest of those yards came from a group of guys averaging 5.0 YPC. The offensive line had a huge part in AP's success.

Again, YPC is a useless stat. It totally ignores situation, and defensive expectation. Adrian Peterson's 5.6 YPC is drastically more impressive than Taylor's 5.3. Why? Because when Peterson is on the field, everyone knows he is getting the ball, and theres often 8 or 9 guys in the box (except the chargers). When Taylor gets the ball, hes treated normally, and usually doesn't see more than 7 in the box.

YPC is totally dependant on what you're running against. 5YPC against nickle (like joseph addai,) isn't all that impressive. 5YPC against constant goal line sets because your QB sucks ass and you're a threat IS impressive.

[johnnyshaka]

So you are telling me defenses all back off and sit on the pass when Taylor gets in there with Jackson/"whatever piece of trash they have in there" behind center and the mish mash of garbage they have at wideout? Please. Nobody has been concerned about a Vikings pass attack since Moss left.

Oh, and for the record, 57% of Taylor's rushes were on first down and 56% of AP's were on first down.

And, again, one more time, I agree with everybody, AP is a very talented back but the offensive line is a very important part of his success. I don't know why that is so hard for everybody to concede.

[Raiders Army]

Nice try to combine the two games to make both of them look good. In the 2nd game, he had 31 carries for 77 yards.

Taylor had a great year, but Peterson still had a higher YPC and fewer fumbles.

Taylor also had 164 yards against Oakland, which has a pretty crappy run defense. I wouldn't have been surprised if Peterson would've done mo betterer.

[SFL Cat]

Notice Bush is completely out of the conversation at this point! :)

[Daimyo]

AP is over-rated, but he is still a top 10 back in the league... probably even top five if he stays healthy. Bush probably shouldn't even be starting... its really comical to compare them.

[BrianD]

AP is over-rated, but he is still a top 10 back in the league... probably even top five if he stays healthy. Bush probably shouldn't even be starting... its really comical to compare them.

So are you joining in the over-rating by saying he is top five, or do you routinely hear people rating him better than top five?

[Daimyo]

I routinely hear people calling him the best back in the league or a once in a generation talent...

[jbergey22]

How is this even a question?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Who better referee: Ed Hochuli or Gerry Austin

[wade moore]

Who better referee: Ed Hochuli or Gerry Austin

It's all about Hochuli.

[Rizon]

who worse: reggie bush or george bush

who more talented: reggie bush or sophia bush

[Rizon]

Reggie Bush is so bad, that if he were drafted 15 years ago, the Dolphins would have taken him.

[Vegas Vic]

It's all about Hochuli.

Red Cashion, and it's not even close.

[ISiddiqui]

The offensive line had a huge part in AP's success.

That much is definately true. Steve Hutchinson is an amazing guard and has really solidified that offensive line. Shaun Alexander really, really misses Hutch.

[larrymcg421]

EDIT: I'm not saying that Taylor is a better back than AP...not at all...what I am getting at is that the Vikes O-Line deserves a lot of credit. If you disagree, then please explain to me how an ordinary back like Taylor can put up the numbers he put up this season...a whole 0.2 YPC less than AP.


It's the same offensive line as last season, right? Last season when Taylor had 4.0 YPC?

[johnnyshaka]

It's the same offensive line as last season, right? Last season when Taylor had 4.0 YPC?

I believe so.

[Synovia]

That much is definately true. Steve Hutchinson is an amazing guard and has really solidified that offensive line. Shaun Alexander really, really misses Hutch.


No, he doesn't. Sean Alexander misses his talent. He's the problem in Seattle, not lthe line. Sean Alexander is a perfect example of why you don't give older RBs big contracts.

Mo Morris doesn't seem to be having any problems in Seattle.

So you are telling me defenses all back off and sit on the pass when Taylor gets in there with Jackson/"whatever piece of trash they have in there" behind center and the mish mash of garbage they have at wideout?

No, what I'm saying is that when Chester Taylor is in, hes playing against a base 3-4/4-3 set. When Peterson comes in, teams start pulling Cbs/Safeties and putting in more linebackers. Peterson is an atrocious blocker, so teams know they are going to get run when hes in, so they pull the safeties up, and run heavy sets. With Taylor, they make no such adjustments.

Thats why Peterson's numbers are so impressive. He's basically putting up great 3rd down back ypc against goal line back conditions.


The Vikings really need to start running more sets with both of them on the field, and using Peterson as a receiving threat while taylor blocks.

[ISiddiqui]

No, he doesn't. Sean Alexander misses his talent. He's the problem in Seattle, not lthe line. Sean Alexander is a perfect example of why you don't give older RBs big contracts.

Mo Morris doesn't seem to be having any problems in Seattle.

Maurice Morris also only rushes 140 times this season. He doesn't necessarily get the all game pounding that a feature back may. Regardless, I think any RB would miss the best guard in the league.

When Morris had to start 8 games for the Seahawks last year, amazingly his yards per carry dropped to 3.8. Hmmmm.

[Synovia]

Maurice Morris also only rushes 140 times this season. He doesn't necessarily get the all game pounding that a feature back may. Regardless, I think any RB would miss the best guard in the league.

When Morris had to start 8 games for the Seahawks last year, amazingly his yards per carry dropped to 3.8. Hmmmm.


Yes, but hes been much better this year than last year. Again, YPC is a silly stat. It doesn't adjust for game situation.


The issue in Seattle is that Shaun Alexander is done.


Yes, the vikings line is very good, but Peterson is a stud. Chester Taylor is just another guy.

[Travis]

Yes, but hes been much better this year than last year. Again, YPC is a silly stat. It doesn't adjust for game situation.


The issue in Seattle is that Shaun Alexander is done.


Yes, the vikings line is very good, but Peterson is a stud. Chester Taylor is just another guy.

Alexander may have lost a step or two, but his biggest problem for a majority of the season was playing hurt. Having the cast on meant he was limited to carrying the ball in one hand and not being able to switch it out and use the off hand for anything from stiff arms to helping maintain balance.

The reduced offensive line effectiveness also showed much more for him than Morris due to running style (as Morris pretty much hits the line, hole or not while Alexander will recognize when there isn't a hole where it should be and look to make yardage other places. In past years there were other places, this year, not so much). Once they got the cast down to a size that he could begin to carry the ball in either hand, he was a much more effective back.

Certainly not the MVP level of a few years ago, and yes the line misses Hutch, but the regression of Locklear and Gray along with Spencer and Sims not making a huge jump forward this year were also factors. If Alexander can get healthy, he can still be a 1,000+ yard feature back in the 3.8-4.2 ypc range. Not a pro-bowler but also certainly not as bad as things looked this season.

[johnnyshaka]

Yes, the vikings line is very good, but Peterson is a stud. Chester Taylor is just another guy.

Thank you.

[Synovia]

Johhny, the fact that the line is good is totally offset by the fact that the Vikings have one of the worst passing games in the league. Adrian Peterson runs more against 8 and 9 men in the box than any player in the league.

[Travis]

Quick comparison between Taylor and Peterson, though the only requirement I used was if they both played in the game or not.

Games both appeared in:
Peterson: 193 carries, 1,173 yards, 6.08 avg, 11 TD
Taylor: 104 carries, 603 yards, 5.80 avg, 3 TD

Games only one appeared in:
Peterson (@Det, @KC): 45 carries, 168 yards, 3.73 avg, 1 TD
Taylor (vs Oak, @NYG): 53 carries, 241 yards, 4.55 avg, 4 TD

Peterson's 5 best yardage games came in games both played while Taylors best game was easily the Oakland game, then 3 shared games, then the Giants game. This of course doesn't take into consideration the situations that each back was used in when both were available for games.

Biggest difference in numbers comes in games where they were within 4 carries of each other (6 games: GB, @Chi, @Dal, Det, Was, @Den)

Peterson: 79 carries, 578 yards, 7.32 avg, 6 TD
Taylor: 70 carries, 337 yards, 4.81 avg, 1 TD

So as far as just strictly looking at numbers and trying to whittle it down to as close to a straight up comparison as I can without delving into down/distance/situation, it gets harder and harder to say that Taylor is on Peterson's level. That said, while the fantasy football owner in me would love to see Peterson get at least 3/4 of the carries when he's healthy, hard not to question how much he gains from having a back to share time with while Taylor seems to thrive away from a true split in carries.

[johnnyshaka]

Johhny, the fact that the line is good is totally offset by the fact that the Vikings have one of the worst passing games in the league.

Exactly...everybody knew they couldn't pass and they still averaged 5 yards a carry when AP wasn't in the game.

So, logically, one could conclude that the offensive line played a very big role in the team's rushing success because despite the lack of any other offensive threat, the team was still able to run the ball with their backups more effectively than the rest of the NFL.

One step further, if the line can make backups look that good over a full season then I'm sure the star enjoyed some of the benifits of having that very good offensive line blocking for him, as well, no?

[larrymcg421]

Exactly...everybody knew they couldn't pass and they still averaged 5 yards a carry when AP wasn't in the game.

So, logically, one could conclude that the offensive line played a very big role in the team's rushing success because despite the lack of any other offensive threat, the team was still able to run the ball with their backups more effectively than the rest of the NFL.

One step further, if the line can make backups look that good over a full season then I'm sure the star enjoyed some of the benifits of having that very good offensive line blocking for him, as well, no?

Again, it was the same line last year that Chester Taylor only got 4.0 YPC with. If it's all about the line, then why is he significantly better this year with no changes? Perhaps the addition of AP has helped him a bit.

[nfg22]

Shaka...

Chester was in on passing downs, this means that he faced the passing defenses. I know he also had alot of first down runs, but the rest were mostly on 3rd. If you watched te vikings games you would have noticed that while Taylor is a good back that he doesnt have that chance at the endzone every play like Peterson. While I believe Barry Sanders was better, Peterson has that same ability to break every play.

[johnnyshaka]

Again, it was the same line last year that Chester Taylor only got 4.0 YPC with. If it's all about the line, then why is he significantly better this year with no changes? Perhaps the addition of AP has helped him a bit.

Maybe a new head coach, new offense, new blocking scheme, new starting RB, and 4 new starters on the line all in 2006 had something to do with them not performing as well last year.

[johnnyshaka]

Chester was in on passing downs, this means that he faced the passing defenses. I know he also had alot of first down runs, but the rest were mostly on 3rd.


Taylor had 20 rushes for 88 yards on 3rd down. :rolleyes:


If you watched te vikings games you would have noticed that while Taylor is a good back that he doesnt have that chance at the endzone every play like Peterson.


If you read any of my posts you would have noticed that I don't think Taylor is a good back and that I think that Peterson is a very talented one.

[Synovia]

Football Outsiders DVOA:

Chester Taylor: 1.6% 27th in the league
Adrian Peterson: 16.5% 12th in the league


That offsets for the fact that its easier to run in situations when teams expect the pass. Peterson was CLEARLY better than Taylor.


For shits and giggles, the lowest RB in the league with 100 or more carries?

Reggie Bush -26.5% 56th.

Best:

Jerrious Norwood 31.8% 1st



As to the line, Minnesota ranked 15th in the league in Adjusted Line Yards, with 4.21. They were 1st in the league at Running Back yards by almost a full yard (at 5.43). Adjusted Line Yards is essentially a running average of all running plays truncated at 10 yards. It gives you a good idea of what line most consistenly gets its back positive yardage.