Turned off by the interface

[Molarmite]

Was anyone else turned off by the interface at all then grown to like it? I really want a pro football sim, but I don't know if I can stand the interface. Just wondering if there's any change I can make or if most people end up eventually like it.

[Tasan]

Hi, and welcome to the oldest, and problably most volatile complaint about the game. You will probably hear from folks who refuse to play the game anymore because of the interface, to guys who think the 'spreadsheet' feel fits in just right with a football text sim. Most feel real strong one way or the other.

I personally could care less if it was in ASCI text if it gave good results. I wouldn't hold your breath about graphics changing anytime soon either. This is pretty much the way it looked from day one, back in the late 90's.

[Ben E Lou]

The biggest positive of the interface is that, once you know it, every screen is one click away. No dragging. No dropdowns. Nothing. But if you need something prettier, that doesn't seem very likely to happen.

[Antmeister]

Was anyone else turned off by the interface at all then grown to like it? I really want a pro football sim, but I don't know if I can stand the interface. Just wondering if there's any change I can make or if most people end up eventually like it.

While I can definitely understand being turned off by the interface, you will get much enjoyment out of it once you learn your way around it. I am definitely on the side of the fence which would like an upgraded interface, but only for the reason of making it feel more engaging (like adding player pics, seeing all the player info on one screen, etc). BBCF does a good job of showing you a flow.

For newbies, the interface can be somewhat overwhelming and even confusing. However, once you learn your way around, it is way less difficult to learn to use than say Word or Excel since there are a small number of screens that you will end up using in the end on a normal basis.

[korme]

The coolest part about the interface is the load times- virtually null. As much as I love some of the DDS games and stuff, when it comes down to it man, I'm just playing for the stats anyway.

[Joe]

yes. it sucks

[Raiders Army]

I've grown to like it. The only load times that I get are when I hit the Career Statistics in the Records window.

[Izulde]

FOF is probably my favorite interface of any text-sim I've ever played.

[Groundhog]

I (finally) bought 2K7 a few nights back. I'd like a "re-skin" at the very least to make it look like a new game, but yeah, I don't see it happening.

[Groundhog]

The coolest part about the interface is the load times- virtually null. As much as I love some of the DDS games and stuff, when it comes down to it man, I'm just playing for the stats anyway.

While I agree that this is nice, FBCB has zilch load times and that interface, while also very dated, far bests FOF IMO.

[korme]

Yep, FBCB is along the same lines of greatness there. Simple and perfectly effective.

[korme]

Groundhog, didn't you used to host in-game logo files for FBCB? Or a nickname file or something?

[Senator]

Does anyone else remember someone asking this question on the Sideline boards in 1998? It rings a bell for some reason.

[PiemasterUK]

I found the interface a bit overwhelming when I first started, but have got used to it once I worked out what Windows I needed to keep open and which were 'once a season' jobs.

One thing I would like to see is the option to snapshot a windows arrangement to automatically open when you load the game.

[Sgran]

I don't even notice the interface. I've never even updated my logos.

[Galaril]

What interface?

[AlexB]

What interface?

QFT

[Groundhog]

Groundhog, didn't you used to host in-game logo files for FBCB? Or a nickname file or something?

Sure do, I think the links should all still work:

http://www.goosejuice.com/fbcb/

[Rizon]

I hated the interface at first. And I still hate it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Was anyone else turned off by the interface at all then grown to like it?

Quite the opposite, I am totally turned on by an inherface; believe me, I have no problem "growing" to like it.

Oops. I misread that. Sorry.

[Dutch]

FOF is probably my favorite interface of any text-sim I've ever played.

The interface could still use a lot of functionality improvements, but it's the best for sitting down at night for an hour and rolling through a season or two of football. Which suits me just fine.

And as Skydog eluded to, it's nice to know you are a click or two away from whatever information you are looking for.

[Icy]

They good thing about the FOF interface is that nobody can ever imagine that you are playing a game even if you do it in front of their eyes, perfect to play it at work or making your familly think you are working.

Now, if you use the alternative "excel looking" background pic i designed for FOF2k7, then it's even harder to guess you are playing a game :D

http://www.prodeportes.com/fof2k7/bitmaps/excellook.jpg

[CraigSca]

I personally love the interface.

It seems like all the recent text games I've purchased I play a few times and then never come back to them because I get boggled by the myriad of screens and the need to click 40 times to get the info you want. With FOF, it's all there in black and white (which turns off a lot of people).

I'd like a more engaging in-game interface (Solevision is the first step, I believe), but if Jim went 2008 on me with the interface, I'd freak.

[1986 Giants]

They good thing about the FOF interface is that nobody can ever imagine that you are playing a game even if you do it in front of their eyes, perfect to play it at work or making your familly think you are working.

Now, if you use the alternative "excel looking" background pic i designed for FOF2k7, then it's even harder to guess you are playing a game :D

http://www.prodeportes.com/fof2k7/bitmaps/excellook.jpg
Excellent point, since I was stupid, STUPID enough to arrange my office so that my screen faces the door. Now I cannot rearrange without being obvious as to the reason why. Thank goodness for text simulation games like FOF. ;)

[gstelmack]

The biggest positive of the interface is that, once you know it, every screen is one click away. No dragging. No dropdowns. Nothing. But if you need something prettier, that doesn't seem very likely to happen.

While the general thought is there (you don't need to hunt around for screens or info generally, they are easy to get to), I will point out that this does not mean that the info you need is one click away. For example, if you are drafting and want to check out one of your own players at a position, you need to open the team roster window, then open the player report window, then close the player report window, then close the team roster window. It is simply too modal.

And weight training is another good example: you have to click "Weights" on the player report window, decide what to do, do it, close the Weight Training dialog, click "Next" to go to the next player, and repeat. Why can't I step through players on the dialog?

And in some places it's not spreadsheety enough. I can't get a single list of the seasonal rust values for my player. Why no bureau rating during the draft on the draftee player report windows? Speaking of weights, why not a list of over/under height/weight players on my roster?

Those are examples of where I think the UI could use improvements. I do think the approach is sound (aside from the modality it enforces, that's the one basic assumption I'd like to change) and it mostly does what it is supposed to do. Prettying it up won't help, and will probably suck up valuable real estate when we can't get enough info on a single page as it is (witness the multiple tabs and views for the roster reports). I'd much rather see a focus on making what we have a bit easier to use than I would on completely changing approach and look. And aside from the modality complaint, most of what I'm talking about fall into the realm of tweaks (in a design sense, not implementation sense, I'm fully aware some of these may not be easy to implement). Overall, it's an excellent UI for the type of game it is used for.

[Dutch]

Good points, Greg.

[Tasan]

I'd like to be able to keep multiple in game windows open at once, like the draft order window during the draft, or my roster window during the draft, and possibly even the trade window. Those 3 would reduce my clicks during the game soooo much.

[Bad-example]

I have no problem with the spreadsheet style used in FOF, but all the scroll bars drive me nuts. Want to look at the box score for a game? You have to scroll up and down repeatedly to get the full picture of what happened. Has your player won a lot of accolades in his career? You will have to scroll down to see them all. Really too many examples to list them all. IMHO, scroll bars in any game indicate a failure by the programmer to find a way to properly display the information.

Also, the most recent version was a step backwards aesthetically. In the Scout Overview screen, I can't stomach the drunkenly funky letters and numbers in the #, POS, Start, Exp and Current and Future Estimate columns. I tried today to get back into FOF after a very long layoff. But the ugliness of that one screen chased me away in no time flat.

One last thing: The color coding for positional experience. I would have preferred tabs in the player's scouting window to get a more realistic idea of what the player can do at different positions. But I can't fathom installing a color code for this without an adjacent key to make it clear where each color falls within the spectrum.

[QuikSand]

I have no problem with the spreadsheet style used in FOF, but all the scroll bars drive me nuts. Want to look at the box score for a game? You have to scroll up and down repeatedly to get the full picture of what happened. Has your player won a lot of accolades in his career? You will have to scroll down to see them all. Really too many examples to list them all. IMHO, scroll bars in any game indicate a failure by the programmer to find a way to properly display the information.

Also, the most recent version was a step backwards aesthetically. In the Scout Overview screen, I can't stomach the drunkenly funky letters and numbers in the #, POS, Start, Exp and Current and Future Estimate columns. I tried today to get back into FOF after a very long layoff. But the ugliness of that one screen chased me away in no time flat.

One last thing: The color coding for positional experience. I would have preferred tabs in the player's scouting window to get a more realistic idea of what the player can do at different positions. But I can't fathom installing a color code for this without an adjacent key to make it clear where each color falls within the spectrum.

Seriously, go and get the StelmackSoft resource patcher, which very easily wipes out a number of the specific things you are mentioning above.

http://www.gstelmack.com/UtilitySuite/index.htm

[Bad-example]

Thanks for the heads up. As a rule I avoid user-created add on programs so I didn't know it existed.

[Passacaglia]

They good thing about the FOF interface is that nobody can ever imagine that you are playing a game even if you do it in front of their eyes, perfect to play it at work or making your familly think you are working.

Now, if you use the alternative "excel looking" background pic i designed for FOF2k7, then it's even harder to guess you are playing a game :D

http://www.prodeportes.com/fof2k7/bitmaps/excellook.jpg

Do you even work in an office? :p

[aran]

FOF suffers from being arcane. That's my primary problem with it in general, not just for the interface.

It's nice to have everything within a click's reach, but the rule-of-thumb regarding interfaces is that everything relevant to the current system state should be within 3 clicks of where you start. If you try to adhere to the one click rule things will get VERY cluttered, as they are even in FOF which does not really adhere to the one click rule.


Why don't we have xml output for stats and such?
Why don't we have better export functionality for stats?
Why can't I have two windows open at once?
Why are there stupid team-related color schemes that are often ugly as hell?
Why are there no tooltips for the icon-coded buttons on the top right? Why are there no tooltips for anything?
Why does the game give me no real direction with its interface, but relies on an antiquated "email" system?
Why does the email system so seldom give me unique information?
Why do players have no personality at all?
Why is the media not modelled at all?
Why are coaches and scouts dealt with in a small, isolated corner of the interface?
Why are almost all the color-coding schemes in the game different from one another and almost random in their selection of colors?
Why is the season-ending manager evaluation screen so godawful ugly?
Why is there sound on the Greta's House of Football screen?
Why are there so many different screens for stats when they could more easily be combined in a more intuitive fashion?


Those are just a few of the questions I ask myself while playing FOF. When compared to a game like FM08 that models much much much more data and does it so much better (IMO, of course), I wonder why FOF must be eternally in 1995.

I wish Jim would sell licenses to his engine so people like me could put a better interface on the thing. I would voluntarily design him a new interface and let him sell it in his game.

[pizzaddict]

Personally I was very turned off by the interface. If it wasn't for the fact that there really aren't any other good football sims out there, I probably would have went with something else. IMO, other sim games like OOTP8 and NHL Eastside hockey have done an excellent job of creating a "modern" interface, but still haveing tons of depth and ability to customize settings. I don't have any issues with load times on those programs, so I don't know why I would on FOF.