Homeland Security Alert!

[Bubba Wheels]

Be Alert! The world needs more 'lerts!" Fox News says 2 tanker trucks just stolen in Va.

[Cringer]

Well, actually that is pretty bad news. What they had on them would be good info though. If they had auto or truck fuel of some kind then probably nothing to worry about I would say, since it would most llikely just go onto the black market. The diesel balck market is getting bigger these days.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I blame Mitt Romney.

[JPhillips]

http://www.queencityasphalt.com/images/bee_alert.gif

[Butter]

If any tanker trucks in the area start driving erratically, I'll be sure to muscle my way into the cabin and take it over, just in case.

[path12]

Hmmm. And "Oilers9911" is viewing this thread. Coincidence?

[cartman]

If any tanker trucks in the area start driving erratically, I'll be sure to muscle my way into the cabin and take it over, just in case.

Just don't let the speed drop below 50 MPH!

[rkmsuf]

Have you seen this man?


http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2428/overthetopstallonealm4.jpg

[Kodos]

My God! I hope they aren't milk trucks1!!

[Bubba Wheels]

Joke?

[rkmsuf]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

[sachmo71]

Be Alert! The world needs more 'lerts!" Fox News says 2 tanker trucks just stolen in Va.

Oh boy, I hope they weren't filled with rendered fat. Think of the triglicerides!

[Bubba Wheels]

Some kind of fuel trucks, stolen from a construction site. Interesting cause Northern VA, in relation to Washington DC, where just yesterday news was saying Al Quedda is in final stages of planning attack on possibly the White House.

[Bubba Wheels]

Oh boy, I hope they weren't filled with rendered fat. Think of the triglicerides!

Yes, with our open borders policy, Homeland Security is a big joke.

[Butter]

Yes, with our open borders policy, Homeland Security is a big joke.

Who had 14 posts on the "indignant" over/under?

[lordscarlet]

Some kind of fuel trucks, stolen from a construction site. Interesting cause Northern VA, in relation to Washington DC, where just yesterday news was saying Al Quedda is in final stages of planning attack on possibly the White House.

What's the blast radius for 2 tanker trucks? Should I leave town for the weekend? :)

[Passacaglia]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/dept_of_homeland_security_has

[cartman]

What's the blast radius for 2 tanker trucks? Should I leave town for the weekend? :)

Just buy some duct tape, plastic sheeting, and dried beans. Then you're set.

[cartman]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/dept_of_homeland_security_has

This one too:

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/we_must_all_do_our_part_to?utm_source=onion_rss_daily

[Toddzilla]

For god's sake lets hope they don't get on the NAFTA highway and head down (up?) to CanaMexAmerica! They might try to sell the tankers for a million Ameros!

Where are the Minutemen when you need them?

Arm the militias!

Panic!! Panic!! Be Very Afraid!!!

[Rizon]

Is it possible for them to drive the trucks to Berkeley? I'd pay for their gas.

[Flasch186]

perhaps the trucks were on the NAU superhighway that connects directly between Washington DC, Toronto, and Tijuana?!

[Bubba Wheels]

perhaps the trucks were on the NAU superhighway that connects directly between Washington DC, Toronto, and Tijuana?!

Well, at least you're honest. Most folks wouldn't want to be as indentified as you with being in love with the New World Order.

[Cringer]

Just read the two tankers had a total of 3000 gallons of diesel fuel, combined. That ends up being about $4500-$6000 worth of fuel on the black market, which I am sure is where it ends up unless police get them first.

You can get black market diesel in most major cities around this country.

[Flasch186]

Well, at least you're honest. Most folks wouldn't want to be as indentified as you with being in love with the New World Order.

I was kidding.
I think youre literally crazy to think that that's a possibility (NAU). I want to repeat that. I think you are literally crazy, like bat shit crazy.

I think we're headed for corporate feudalism before unionization between the countries you cite. You can live in your world though.

[Cringer]

In sci-fi books that take place in the future, there is always some kind on Union between the North American countries, or even the whole Western Hemisphere. Then we colonize Mars or some other distant planet. Just FYI.

[Bubba Wheels]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

All this info for a fantasy, eh?

[Cringer]

These guys have photographic evidence though! (http://www.alienvideo.net/real-aliens.php)

and so do these guys! (http://www.ghostresearch.org/ghostpics/)

[Flasch186]

it's wikipedia, I can go edit shit right now if I had the time to waste but instead I'd rather waste my time watching the god awful show that is CSI: Miami.

...and I love that the first sentence has "theoretical" in it.

[Bubba Wheels]

it's wikipedia, I can go edit shit right now if I had the time to waste but instead I'd rather waste my time watching the god awful show that is CSI: Miami.

...and I love that the first sentence has "theoretical" in it.

Just used that for the overall layout. Google any part of it for the in-depth stuff. :rolleyes:

[Flasch186]

I can find a conspiracy theory to support anything including Cringer's group that has proof of Alien life.

[Bubba Wheels]

These guys have photographic evidence though! (http://www.alienvideo.net/real-aliens.php)

and so do these guys! (http://www.ghostresearch.org/ghostpics/)

Ha! One big difference is the Aliens aren't discussing the creation of the 'Outer-Space Highway" with Congress as we speak. The NAFTA Highway folks are.

Hoffa stated on C-Span that congress wanted beginning construction delayed until further discussion/info was given on it. Highway folks basically told congress to "...blow it out your..." and are set to begin construction now. Maybe Hoffa was lying.

[Bubba Wheels]

One more, too good to not post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98&feature=related

[cartman]

Unless Congress approves the funds to build it, they won't get paid. Unless they are going to use private funds, which then means they can build whatever they want, as long as they have the money.

[Bubba Wheels]

Unless Congress approves the funds to build it, they won't get paid. Unless they are going to use private funds, which then means they can build whatever they want, as long as they have the money.

Ahhh, it will be privately funded, because it will be a toll road. But if they already have the route(s) plotted out, how do they intend to get all those people off that land first? Four football fields wide going up the length of the U.S. is going to take alot of land.

And not one word about the ecological damage to result from all this. Interesting. We can't drill for oil in a small area up in Alaska or off the coastline of the U.S., but no problem steamrolling massive amounts of land including wetlands and other areas.

[cartman]

Ahhh, it will be privately funded, because it will be a toll road. But if they already have the route(s) plotted out, how do they intend to get all those people off that land first? Four football fields wide going up the length of the U.S. is going to take alot of land.

Well, they are going to have to pay out the wazzoo for the land. Since states have enacted laws limiting eminent domain since the 2005 Supreme Court ruling, it would be almost impossible for a private entity to be able to acquire the right of way.

And not one word about the ecological damage to result from all this. Interesting. We can't drill for oil in a small area up in Alaska or off the coastline of the U.S., but no problem steamrolling massive amounts of land including wetlands and other areas.

Maybe that is because...

IT IS NOT BEING SERIOUSLY PLANNED!!!!!

Did that ever occur to you? You aren't hearing anything about ecological damage for the simple fact that only NAFTA/NAU conspiracy theorists are assuming it is going to be a near term reality!

[cartman]

Wait, a thought just occurred to me. Maybe they are planning to build this privately. Perhaps one of the sources of funding is to steal tanker trucks full of diesel fuel to sell on the black market.

[cartman]

Double dola,

In any event, we already have three Interstates built that run from the Mexican border to the Canadian border, so really, what's the fuss?

[Bubba Wheels]

Double dola,

In any event, we already have three Interstates built that run from the Mexican border to the Canadian border, so really, what's the fuss?

Well, one reason might be if it were for trucks only, as one report I've seen stated. It will be privately owned, so only those licensed through those 'Corporate Entities' will be able to provide services along it.

But yes, the whole thing does start sounding as stupid and far-fetched as allowing Mexican truck drivers into the U.S. or even maybe a "United States of Europe' with a single currency over there!

[Bubba Wheels]

One last: Dick Cheney himself reassures us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brYWujMC-0k&feature=related

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba Wheels, you are truly a master of the internet.

Just think that the principles state their cases better than I could. But thanks! Everybody loves and trusts the Veep, so thought I would end on that one. Enjoy!

[cartman]

Time for the math lesson.

Average costs in the US to build a single mile of highway is anywhere between $10 and $15 million dollars.

http://gatton.uky.edu/CBER/Downloads/highways.htm
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/accountability/2005GasTax/QandA.htm

That is for your plan jane 4 lane divided highway. So to build the basic roadway from Mexico to Canada assuming 1,600 miles (Laredo, TX to Emerson, MN), you are talking in the neighborhood of $24 billion dollars. Now, you have to add in service stations, say every 160 miles, at a cost of $50 million per station. That's another $500 million roughly.

Now, you get a bank to post $20 billion worth of 50 year bonds at 4%, and the companies put up $4 billion cash to start. That means there will need to be bond payments of approx. $77 million per month for 50 years. Factor in yearly maintenance costs of 4%, and that adds up to another $960 million per year, $80 million per month. So just to break even, they will need to charge around $160 million in tolls per month.

Considering the average toll in the US is about $0.10 per mile, with $0.16 per mile for new toll roads (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/213-01202008-1474231.html) that means they will have to carry 1.3 to 1.6 billion miles worth of traffic each month.

So yes, the idea of an entity building their own infrastructure when once currently exists is infinitely more stupid and far-fetched.

[Bubba Wheels]

Time for the math lesson.

Average costs in the US to build a single mile of highway is anywhere between $10 and $15 million dollars.

http://gatton.uky.edu/CBER/Downloads/highways.htm
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/accountability/2005GasTax/QandA.htm

That is for your plan jane 4 lane divided highway. So to build the basic roadway from Mexico to Canada assuming 1,600 miles (Laredo, TX to Emerson, MN), you are talking in the neighborhood of $24 billion dollars. Now, you have to add in service stations, say every 160 miles, at a cost of $50 million per station. That's another $500 million roughly.

Now, you get a bank to post $20 billion worth of 50 year bonds at 4%, and the companies put up $4 billion cash to start. That means there will need to be bond payments of approx. $77 million per month for 50 years. Factor in yearly maintenance costs of 4%, and that adds up to another $960 million per year, $80 million per month. So just to break even, they will need to charge around $160 million in tolls per month.

Considering the average toll in the US is about $0.10 per mile, with $0.16 per mile for new toll roads (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/213-01202008-1474231.html) that means they will have to carry 1.3 to 1.6 billion miles worth of traffic each month.

So yes, the idea of an entity building their own infrastructure when once currently exists is infinitely more stupid and far-fetched.

Well, you're not going to pull up to a toll-booth and pull out a wad of bills and coins, no. Transponders and electronics. Who is going to ship and from where? Well, lets see...China owns the Panama Canal. Hmmmm, China already owns alot of U.S. currency and property. Maybe China just winds up buying the whole shebang anyway. Then China gets government control over a large part of U.S. commerce and territory even if its at a loss for awhile. Sounds like a pretty good deal, if you're China.

One scenario of many possible.

[cartman]

China owns the Panama Canal.

Yet another blatant piece of misinformation. Hutchinson, based out of Hong Kong, operates a port at either end of the canal. They have no control over the passage of cargo through the canal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchison_Whampoa

[molson]

Time for the math lesson.

Average costs in the US to build a single mile of highway is anywhere between $10 and $15 million dollars.


I feel like if the government gave me $5 million, I could, even with no engineering experience whatsoever, manage to put together a damn good mile of highway.

[cartman]

I feel like if the government gave me $5 million, I could, even with no engineering experience whatsoever, manage to put together a damn good mile of highway.

Watch the episode of BBC's Top Gear where they try to simply resurface a road. :D

[mckerney]

Double dola,

In any event, we already have three Interstates built that run from the Mexican border to the Canadian border, so really, what's the fuss?

SOMEONE HAD PICTURES OF CURRENCY!!!!111


Now do you understand the fuss? And you seem to be completely ignoring the Mexicans=Bad line of thinking.

[CU Tiger]

Well, lets see...China owns the Panama Canal.

You know this is horribly short history minded. Just a few years ago the US 40 year lease ran out and there were huge ceremonies on every TV station of the handing of ownership from the US back to Panama.

Please get your feces coaligned before you talk shit.

Also, did I just read someone write $50M for a gas station?
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Your kidding right?
I mean easily less than $1M. They do it EVERYDAY

[cartman]

Also, did I just read someone write $50M for a gas station?
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Your kidding right?
I mean easily less than $1M. They do it EVERYDAY

Yep, in a developed area, I'm sure that's the going rate for basic pumps/Qwik-e-Mart. But if you can build an isolated full service station (gas/repair/food/basic medical) for $1 million, more power to you! Just the new rest stops they are building north of Austin in Salado off of I-35 cost $16 million.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/mnews/mnsearch.asp?AID=24&TID=9

[Toddzilla]

Once again, Bubba never lets actual facts (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070827/hayes) get in the way of a good delusion.

Hang in there, pal, one day you'll find a medication that works...

[Bubba Wheels]

Once again, Bubba never lets actual facts get in the way of a good delusion.

Hang in there, pal, one day you'll find a medication that works...

Well, even supposing that all the info is false, and that men of stature such as Ron Paul and President of the Teamsters James Hoffa are all kooks and liars, you still can't explain...

With the threat of terror so high, and drug smuggling/use so rampant, and the American population so much in favor of border security....

Money appropriated by congress to build a secure border fence that never seems to get built...

Nothing is still happening to secure those borders.

Now isn't that something? A President and congress with the lowest approval ratings in history, a huge backlash by the voting public that kept congress from granting blanket amnesty to illegal immigrants...

And yet the borders are still wide open. And I'm the delusional one? OK Pal, you either don't want to see it or have reasons to not want to.

[Toddzilla]

Ron Paul is a kook and a liar?

SHOCKING (http://www.newsweek.com/id/73372)~!

http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[Bubba Wheels]

Ron Paul is a kook and a liar?

SHOCKING (http://www.newsweek.com/id/73372)~!

http://www.tfhp.org/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Of course, your sources are impeccable! The Nation and Newsweek! How could I have not seen that!

[cartman]

Here's an update on the "Homeland Security Alert". They found one of the two tanker trucks, and are still looking for the other. Both of them were filled with burnt oil. Way to hit the panic button.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-dc--stolentankertruck0208feb08,0,3454180.story

[JPhillips]

Bubba, you didn't really just call out Newsweek and The Nation after you cited Youtube and Wikipedia? Please tell me that was part of the conspiracy.

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba, you didn't really just call out Newsweek and The Nation after you cited Youtube and Wikipedia? Please tell me that was part of the conspiracy.

Although, most would understand that Youtube, like the Drudgereport, doesn't itself originate the story, just passes it along.

[Cringer]

Well, even supposing that all the info is false, and that men of stature such as Ron Paul and President of the Teamsters James Hoffa are all kooks and liars, you still can't explain...

With the threat of terror so high, and drug smuggling/use so rampant, and the American population so much in favor of border security....

Money appropriated by congress to build a secure border fence that never seems to get built...

Nothing is still happening to secure those borders.

Now isn't that something? A President and congress with the lowest approval ratings in history, a huge backlash by the voting public that kept congress from granting blanket amnesty to illegal immigrants...

And yet the borders are still wide open. And I'm the delusional one? OK Pal, you either don't want to see it or have reasons to not want to.

Seriously, do you really think the government should have a wall built by now? Do you think they should just sweep in with the military, clear a path for the wall with no concern, and then build it?

Well my friend, this is America. Not much happens fast, and not much happens without lawsuits by individuals who have nothing to do with conspiracies, or even care about the approval ratings of their President.


Where I live, on the Texas border, many people don't like a border wall. Some of those people own land along the border. Little old ladies, and the laws of this country, hold up your wall Bubba.....

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=7842624&nav=menu90_3

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=7802180

I can keep giving you links Bubba, but to use your line, just google it. :rolleyes:


The government is now trying to pass off the wall as new levees. They have in the past so badly planned sections of this that it took a public meeting before they had it pointed out to them they would have placed a whole university campus on the Mexico side of the wall.

You may think building a wall is easy, but this is America my friend.

[Bubba Wheels]

Seriously, do you really think the government should have a wall built by now? Do you think they should just sweep in with the military, clear a path for the wall with no concern, and then build it?

Well my friend, this is America. Not much happens fast, and not much happens without lawsuits by individuals who have nothing to do with conspiracies, or even care about the approval ratings of their President.


Where I live, on the Texas border, many people don't like a border wall. Some of those people own land along the border. Little old ladies, and the laws of this country, hold up your wall Bubba.....

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=7842624&nav=menu90_3

http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=7802180

I can keep giving you links Bubba, but to use your line, just google it. :rolleyes:


The government is now trying to pass off the wall as new levees. They have in the past so badly planned sections of this that it took a public meeting before they had it pointed out to them they would have placed a whole university campus on the Mexico side of the wall.

You may think building a wall is easy, but this is America my friend.

Well, yes, this is America, and in many ways you just prove my point. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/01/AR2007100101463_pf.html

Think it was 60 minutes sometime ago that did a story on families under siege along the border with no way to protect their land. These folks you link with sound alot like the folks in Cape Cod that wanted no part of windmills near them cause it would 'block their views.'

Change happens, its unavoidable, and the vast majority of Americans want this wall built.

[cartman]

No need to panic about this particular incident any more. The 2nd truck was found.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1342498

[Groundhog]

THATS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK

[Butter]

Change happens, its unavoidable, and the vast majority of Americans want this wall built.

Aside from the unintentional comedy of YOU spouting the first part of this line, the last part of this line is typically ridiculous hyperbole. The vast majority of FOFC can see right through it.

[Fighter of Foo]

Bubba,

I know you get scared really, REALLY easily, as evidenced by this thread, but please realize that our border with Mexico is 2,000 miles long. Our border with Canada is over 5,000 miles long. It will never, ever be "secure" whatever that word happens to mean to you.

The sooner you get this the better off we'll all be.

Thanks.

FoF

[Toddzilla]

This folly of a NAFTA highway and NAU is on par in sheer idiocy as jbmagic's Blackjack system. And like that system, when you buy into it, you lose. Big.

[JediKooter]

James Hoffa Jr looking good in pre-season...

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba,

I know you get scared really, REALLY easily, as evidenced by this thread, but please realize that our border with Mexico is 2,000 miles long. Our border with Canada is over 5,000 miles long. It will never, ever be "secure" whatever that word happens to mean to you.

The sooner you get this the better off we'll all be.

Thanks.

FoF

Well, if we had 15 million illegal Canadians inside the U.S. and various major drug-transporting (smuggling is where you hide it) operations then 1. Canada would have lost a full 1/3 of its population and 2. We should build a wall up there.

Otherwise, you're the one out-of-touch with reality when you claim most Americans (including legal aliens) do not want this wall built. If that were the case, Congress would never have authorized it and funded it, as we have all seen that is the last thing they want to do anyway.

[Bubba Wheels]

Aside from the unintentional comedy of YOU spouting the first part of this line, the last part of this line is typically ridiculous hyperbole. The vast majority of FOFC can see right through it.

And I've said before, the majority of FOFC is in the minority of what most Americans think and want. Now I know that makes you personally feel somehow superior to all those ignorant rubes that make up the American public, but that's really your problem not ours. :)

[Passacaglia]

And I've said before, the majority of FOFC is in the minority of what most Americans think and want.

That's interesting. Why do you think this community is so different from the rest of the country (leaving aside the fact that we're not all American)?

[Bubba Wheels]

This folly of a NAFTA highway and NAU is on par in sheer idiocy as jbmagic's Blackjack system. And like that system, when you buy into it, you lose. Big.

Making a broad statement like that just shows how deluded you must really be. I can go into a dozen industrial parks around the Detroit area and see fairly or even brand new buildings complete with loading docks shuttered up with For Lease and For Sale signs out in front. NAFTA. Ross Perot was absolutely right. And if you think it won't hit you where you live, keep living in that fantasy world.

[Bubba Wheels]

That's interesting. Why do you think this community is so different from the rest of the country (leaving aside the fact that we're not all American)?

HA! You really do think that you're special don't you? And you wonder how the term "Liberal Elites' comes into being.

[Passacaglia]

Making a broad statement like that just shows how deluded you must really be. I can go into a dozen industrial parks around the Detroit area and see fairly or even brand new buildings complete with loading docks shuttered up with For Lease and For Sale signs out in front. NAFTA. Ross Perot was absolutely right. And if you think it won't hit you where you live, keep living in that fantasy world.

Oh, scratch my previous post then, if broad statements are bad. And by the way, Detroit from the 70's says hi.

[Passacaglia]

HA! You really do think that you're special don't you? And you wonder how the term "Liberal Elites' comes into being.

wtf are you talking about? I just asked why you think that "the majority of FOFC is in the minority of what most Americans think and want" -- I'm pretty sure you've said that before.

[Bubba Wheels]

wtf are you talking about? I just asked why you think that "the majority of FOFC is in the minority of what most Americans think and want" -- I'm pretty sure you've said that before.

Leaving aside those who are not American, I thought it was already established that this community bends left ideologically when most Americans are center or right. Maybe a poll is in order.

[Bubba Wheels]

Oh, scratch my previous post then, if broad statements are bad. And by the way, Detroit from the 70's says hi.

NAFTA was passed in the 90s, and things didn't start running downhill until after that. Nice try.

[Passacaglia]

NAFTA was passed in the 90s, and things didn't start running downhill until after that. Nice try.

Wow.

[Bubba Wheels]

Wow.

True. Things may have been 'cyclical' and based on competition and quality, but never 'gone for good and not coming back,' like your hero McCain was so thrilled to tell the Detroit Economic Club to its face.

[Passacaglia]

Here's the best I could find this quickly:

http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm

Historical high unemployment for Michigan: November 1982, 16.9%
Historical low unemployment for Michigan: March 2000, 3.2%

[Bubba Wheels]

Here's the best I could find this quickly:

http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm

Historical high unemployment for Michigan: November 1982, 16.9%
Historical low unemployment for Michigan: March 2000, 3.2%

Easy one. Just today GM announced another 75,000 buyouts. This happens so that the lower-waged workers can then be hired, they start at like $14.00 an hour as opposed to the old $28.00 per. And I believe that 1982 high unemployment number was a pretty sudden 'spike,' followed by an employment upsurge shortly thereafter. Those 'unemployed' workers were just on layoff, as opposed to today being gone.

In other words, one reason that 1982 figure is so high is that those laid-off auto workers knew things were temporary and just sat things out until they got rehired.

[Passacaglia]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/hal/lm_census_c3Convergence_181723_7.pdf

[Fighter of Foo]

Otherwise, you're the one out-of-touch with reality when you claim most Americans (including legal aliens) do not want this wall built. If that were the case, Congress would never have authorized it and funded it, as we have all seen that is the last thing they want to do anyway.

I don't claim this. My claim is:


I know you get scared really, REALLY easily, as evidenced by this thread, but please realize that our border with Mexico is 2,000 miles long. Our border with Canada is over 5,000 miles long. It will never, ever be "secure" whatever that word happens to mean to you.

The sooner you get this the better off we'll all be.


Build a fence, a moat, add some rabid dogs and FBI guys with shotguns and the border still won't be "secure." It will never be "secure." Your life will never be "secure" no matter what anyone tells you.

So you can either be a grown up and refuse to be afraid of the world, or you can act like a sissy five year old and go hide under your bed.

Your choice.

[Toddzilla]

This is quickly become the best UIC thread in a long time. Bubba has become so far detached from reality that it's almost fun to watch him flounder.

MOST Americans want to build a wall. Why? Because congress funded it, and we all know Congress only does what MOST Americans want. [Insert any of a thousand examples to the contrary here].

MOST Americans are center or right. [Insert any of a dozen polls that show a majority of Americans identify with the democratic party and their ideals]

Detroit was thriving until the 90s - oh god, make it stop.

Bubba, please don't ever change the channel away from Fox News and don't ever read a newspaper or magazine. I'm afraid the sudden dose of reality may make your head explode.

[Butter]

And I've said before, the majority of FOFC is in the minority of what most Americans think and want. Now I know that makes you personally feel somehow superior to all those ignorant rubes that make up the American public, but that's really your problem not ours. :)

No, it just makes me feel superior to you. But that doesn't take much. :)

[Bubba Wheels]

This is quickly become the best UIC thread in a long time. Bubba has become so far detached from reality that it's almost fun to watch him flounder.

MOST Americans want to build a wall. Why? Because congress funded it, and we all know Congress only does what MOST Americans want. [Insert any of a thousand examples to the contrary here].

MOST Americans are center or right. [Insert any of a dozen polls that show a majority of Americans identify with the democratic party and their ideals]

Detroit was thriving until the 90s - oh god, make it stop.

Bubba, please don't ever change the channel away from Fox News and don't ever read a newspaper or magazine. I'm afraid the sudden dose of reality may make your head explode.

You by far seem to be among the biggest 'posers' on the board, always with an opinion and never with a fact, even a link you can google up. But just for the record, probably watch Fox News less than the rest, too much tabloid. Get most of my 'news fix' watching Buchanan on MSNBC and Dobbs on CNN. Watch the first ten minutes of O'Reilly until he starts veering off into Brittany Spears land. Your kind of stuff.

[Bubba Wheels]

I don't claim this. My claim is:



Build a fence, a moat, add some rabid dogs and FBI guys with shotguns and the border still won't be "secure." It will never be "secure." Your life will never be "secure" no matter what anyone tells you.

So you can either be a grown up and refuse to be afraid of the world, or you can act like a sissy five year old and go hide under your bed.

Your choice.

You never seem to grasp the obvious: The U.S. is a Sovereign Nation that has every Right to control its own borders. Every other country in the world does control its own borders, including Mexico that prevents immigration from the south by using its own military. Why you always seem to think that the U.S. has every obligation to allow its own citizens, culture and institutions to collapse to 'benefit mankind' in general is frankly no different in principle than theNeo-Cons desire to police the world with our own blood and treasure.

[Bubba Wheels]

No, it just makes me feel superior to you. But that doesn't take much. :)


Tango on, baby!

[cartman]

You never seem to grasp the obvious: The U.S. is a Sovereign Nation that has every Right to control its own borders. Every other country in the world does control its own borders, including Mexico that prevents immigration from the south by using its own military. Why you always seem to think that the U.S. has every obligation to allow its own citizens, culture and institutions to collapse to 'benefit mankind' in general is frankly no different in principle than theNeo-Cons desire to police the world with our own blood and treasure.

Wow, can't get much more xenophobic than that. If we let immigrants in, our whole way of life is going to collapse. Thanks for showing your true colors. Good thing this wasn't the mindset back at the turn of the 20th century, as a wave of immigrants that dwarfed the current level of illegal immigration came into this country and catapulted the US into the position it currently holds as the largest economy in the world.

As a means of border control throughout history, a wall has never been the best solution. It is the most visible, yes. How soon the right forgets that their alpha male, Ronald Reagan, gave a speech in Berlin urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". The reasons the Russians built that wall were eerily similar to the reasons given for the proposed border wall: security and preserve a way of life. Now we have people falling over themselves trying to build a wall of our own.

[JPhillips]

Bubba: Since somewhere between 60-70% of people polled favor a path to citizenship for illegals, you're for doing that as well?

[Bubba Wheels]

Wow, can't get much more xenophobic than that. If we let immigrants in, our whole way of life is going to collapse. Thanks for showing your true colors. Good thing this wasn't the mindset back at the turn of the 20th century, as a wave of immigrants that dwarfed the current level of illegal immigration came into this country and catapulted the US into the position it currently holds as the largest economy in the world.

As a means of border control throughout history, a wall has never been the best solution. It is the most visible, yes. How soon the right forgets that their alpha male, Ronald Reagan, gave a speech in Berlin urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". The reasons the Russians built that wall were eerily similar to the reasons given for the proposed border wall: security and preserve a way of life. Now we have people falling over themselves trying to build a wall of our own.

Retreading old ground, legal vs. illegal was discussed many times in depth elsewhere. I side with Dobbs on believing that more, not less legal immigration is needed. Doesn't change a thing I said earlier. Corporations want illegal immigration to pay cheap wages and liberals want it to stuff the ballot boxes and cheat U.S. citizens out of a real vote that counts.

As far as the wall, one was built to keep people in, the other to prevent invasion. The more proper analogy to the border fence would be the Great Wall of China, but hardly on that scale.

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba: Since somewhere between 60-70% of people polled favor a path to citizenship for illegals, you're for doing that as well?

Like Lou Dobbs, I favor increased legal immigration but not amnesty or line jumping. Why is it suddenly 'racist' to want those who have applied legally to get their turn at legal residence before those who's first act of residence is to break the law by being here in the first place?

[Fighter of Foo]

You never seem to grasp the obvious: The U.S. is a Sovereign Nation that has every Right to control its own borders. Every other country in the world does control its own borders, including Mexico that prevents immigration from the south by using its own military. Why you always seem to think that the U.S. has every obligation to allow its own citizens, culture and institutions to collapse to 'benefit mankind' in general is frankly no different in principle than theNeo-Cons desire to police the world with our own blood and treasure.

And this has nothing to do with your rabid fear and paranoia. Now you're worried about Americas, "citizens, culture and institutions to collapsing to benefit mankind"? You started this thread because you were scared that a couple of trucks were stolen. Grow some goddamn balls.

[JPhillips]

Like Lou Dobbs, I favor increased legal immigration but not amnesty or line jumping. Why is it suddenly 'racist' to want those who have applied legally to get their turn at legal residence before those who's first act of residence is to break the law by being here in the first place?

No fair changing the subject. You said we should build a wall because the majority wants it. The majority also wants a path to citizenship for illegals, so we should do that too, right?

[Toddzilla]

never with a fact, even a link you can google up.The point being...it doesn't matter if someone can post a fact, or "a link you can google", since you're unswayed by facts and reality.

To wit...

If I were to note that according to polls (link 1 (http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312), link 2 (http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=19407&prog=zgp&proj=zdrl)), more Americans identify with the Democratic party than the Republican party, you'd refute or ignore it because it doesn't agree with your bizzaro-warped worldview. Remember, Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, since nutjobs like you can edit content.

Similarly, if I were to note that Americans are overwhelmingly against the war in Iraq (link 1 (http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm), link 2 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16578451/)), yet Congress continues to fund the war (link 1 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7657), link 2 (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2039858620070523), link 3 (http://www.newser.com/story/14133.html)), you'll either refute that this isn't really an example of congress going against the wishes of the American public, deny you made that claim in the first place, or your favorite - claim the references aren't legitimate.

Which all comes back to my (our) original point - you live in a fantasy land not in step with reality, and you reject common sense notions and information commonly accepted as fact. You're a cartoon. A predictable, minimally-intelligent, delusional cartoon.

[Bubba Wheels]

And this has nothing to do with your rabid fear and paranoia. Now you're worried about Americas, "citizens, culture and institutions to collapsing to benefit mankind"? You started this thread because you were scared that a couple of trucks were stolen. Grow some goddamn balls.

Ha! Now you're the ultimate mind-reader, eh? Of course you are! But the reason I started this thread was because: 1. tanker trucks are high on the list of terror-related items to be watched for (believe one Muslim truck driver from Ohio was even convicted on planning an attack with one) 2. A govt bulletin had come out the day before about a potential attack on D.C. supposedly in the final stages according to Intel and 3. the close proximity of northern VA to that area. So, l thought it was interesting. :eek:

[Bubba Wheels]

The point being...it doesn't matter if someone can post a fact, or "a link you can google", since you're unswayed by facts and reality.

To wit...

If I were to note that according to polls (link 1 (http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312), link 2 (http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=19407&prog=zgp&proj=zdrl)), more Americans identify with the Democratic party than the Republican party, you'd refute or ignore it because it doesn't agree with your bizzaro-warped worldview. Remember, Wikipedia isn't a reliable source, since nutjobs like you can edit content.

Similarly, if I were to note that Americans are overwhelmingly against the war in Iraq (link 1 (http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm), link 2 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16578451/)), yet Congress continues to fund the war (link 1 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7657), link 2 (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2039858620070523), link 3 (http://www.newser.com/story/14133.html)), you'll either refute that this isn't really an example of congress going against the wishes of the American public, deny you made that claim in the first place, or your favorite - claim the references aren't legitimate.

Which all comes back to my (our) original point - you live in a fantasy land not in step with reality, and you reject common sense notions and information commonly accepted as fact. You're a cartoon. A predictable, minimally-intelligent, delusional cartoon.

Same old, same old, lots of finger-pointing, name-calling, no facts. A couple of lame last-second links doesn't change your history.

[rkmsuf]

Sooo.....anybody find those trucks?

[Bubba Wheels]

No fair changing the subject. You said we should build a wall because the majority wants it. The majority also wants a path to citizenship for illegals, so we should do that too, right?

See above, legal immigration yes, amnesty no.

[WVUFAN]

I think the solution for illegal immigration isn't to build a wall, because no matter what kind of wall you build, it won't contain illegals from coming through.

It's not even ramping up searches for illegals and deporting them, because there's far too many to track.

It's eliminating the reason they come over here: go after those organizations that harbor the illegals, go after the companies that employ them, and eliminate the privilages they have (health care, education) that make them stay.

What you absolutely do NOT want to do is provide amnesty, because all that will do is encourage more to come over illegally. After all, why even TRY to come over legally if you can come over illegally and get forgiven for it?

[Fighter of Foo]

Ha! Now you're the ultimate mind-reader, eh? Of course you are! But the reason I started this thread was because: 1. tanker trucks are high on the list of terror-related items to be watched for (believe one Muslim truck driver from Ohio was even convicted on planning an attack with one) 2. A govt bulletin had come out the day before about a potential attack on D.C. supposedly in the final stages according to Intel and 3. the close proximity of northern VA to that area. So, l thought it was interesting. :eek:

Funny how none of that made it into your original post. I still don't know why you're so fucking scared of everything.

[Cringer]

Since the fence has been talked about in this thread I guess I will post this little tidbit here.

No fence will be put up in my county, the official decision from the federal government came down a day or two ago. Instead they have decided to help the county rebuild our levies along the Rio Grande. The levies will be 18 feet tall concrete walls by the end of this year. This is considered a victory down here because there is no need to force land owners to give up land for a fence, since there are already half-assed levies in place. It also ends up being cheaper as well, since they won't have to pay people off for land use any more then they are now for the levies.

[Toddzilla]

The point being...it doesn't matter if someone can post a fact, or "a link you can google", since you're unswayed by facts and reality.

To wit...

you'll either refute that this isn't really an example of congress going against the wishes of the American public, deny you made that claim in the first place, or your favorite - claim the references aren't legitimate.

Same old, same old, lots of finger-pointing, name-calling, no facts. A couple of lame last-second links doesn't change your history.

Score one for boring predictability. No facts? Are you able to read?

Oh, and one more for hypocrisy - nice citation of facts yourself.

[JPhillips]

See above, legal immigration yes, amnesty no.

Then cut the BS about the majority of Americans. This is about your fears plain and simple.

[Toddzilla]

I think the solution for illegal immigration isn't to build a wall, because no matter what kind of wall you build, it won't contain illegals from coming through.

It's not even ramping up searches for illegals and deporting them, because there's far too many to track.

It's eliminating the reason they come over here: go after those organizations that harbor the illegals, go after the companies that employ them, and eliminate the privilages they have (health care, education) that make them stay.

What you absolutely do NOT want to do is provide amnesty, because all that will do is encourage more to come over illegally. After all, why even TRY to come over legally if you can come over illegally and get forgiven for it?Great post. Can't say that I agree on all points, but a reasoned opinion is refreshing. However, I think the point you make early (far too many to track) makes the rest of the solution impossible, IMO. Going after organizations and companies makes sense and is a great starting point, but trying to keep "illegals" out of the schools and hospitals is akin to a "round-up" since it has to happen individual-for-individual.

[Bubba Wheels]

Score one for boring predictability. No facts? Are you able to read?

Oh, and one more for hypocrisy - nice citation of facts yourself.

Troll

[Bubba Wheels]

Then cut the BS about the majority of Americans. This is about your fears plain and simple.

Well, you'll have some problem with this I'm sure, but shows a M A J O R I T Y of Americans DO support the fence. http://www.serve.com/Lincolnheritage2/LHI-Americans_Support_Border_Fence.htm

Note the words: 1. Landslide and 2. Time Magazine, hardly a fortress of Conservativism.

[cartman]

I've heard that Time poll quoted quite often, but have never seen a link to it.

[cartman]

Dola,

Here's an article from Time that mentions 66% of Americans opposed the building of the wall:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1199305,00.html

[Subby]

Well, you'll have some problem with this I'm sure, but shows a M A J O R I T Y of Americans DO support the fence. http://www.serve.com/Lincolnheritage2/LHI-Americans_Support_Border_Fence.htm

Note the words: 1. Landslide and 2. Time Magazine, hardly a fortress of Conservativism.
Hi Bizzaro Jesse Ewiak.

[rkmsuf]

They should go old school and build a mote.

[Bubba Wheels]

Dola,

Here's an article from Time that mentions 66% of Americans opposed the building of the wall:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1199305,00.html

Says New York Times in the article. So you have one source, the Hard Left New York Times showing a poll having most Americans opposed to the fence, and another source, the Slightly Left-of-Center Time Magazine showing the opposite with a 'landslide' of Americans wanting not only the 700 miles of fence but the thing from sea-to-sea.

[JeeberD]

They should go old school and build a mote.

That would be a tiny freakin' wall...

[cartman]

Ok, well here's a Fox News poll that shows the majority of people are ok providing illegal immigrants with a path to legal citizenship, as long as they are contributing. (last page of the PDF)

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/060707_release_web.pdf

[Passacaglia]

Here's the poll Bubba was talking about (why not just post a link to the actual study, instead of some other page talking about the study?)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1179336-3,00.html

[cartman]

Here's a Zogby poll that has around the same sample size that has vastly different results. 69% oppose a wall in this survey:

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1102

[Bubba Wheels]

Here's a Zogby poll that has around the same sample size that has vastly different results. 69% oppose a wall in this survey:

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1102

Rasmussen has become the gold standard. Zogby is always flawed.

[cartman]

... Time Magazine showing the opposite with a 'landslide' of Americans wanting not only the 700 miles of fence but the thing from sea-to-sea.

Here's the poll Bubba was talking about (why not just post a link to the actual study, instead of some other page talking about the study?)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1179336-3,00.html

Thanks Pass. The article asks "Do you support building a fence along the 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border." That can be construed a number of different ways. I'm sure the results of the poll would have been different if the term "entire 2,000 mile border" would have been used.

[cartman]

Rasmussen has become the gold standard. Zogby is always flawed.

As is every survey that doesn't support your views, evidently.

[Passacaglia]

Thanks Pass. The article asks "Do you support building a fence along the 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border." That can be construed a number of different ways. I'm sure the results of the poll would have been different if the term "entire 2,000 mile border" would have been used.

wtf? Any idiot can tell you that "from sea to shining sea" was implied...uh, it's so obvious! :p

[Bubba Wheels]

As is every survey that doesn't support your views, evidently.

Riiiight! This coming from a man that would use the New York Times to support...anything. BTW, Drudge reporting 500 more staffers from your 'gold standard' being laid-off today. Layoffs not always a bad thing, no?

[cartman]

Riiiight! This coming from a man that would use the New York Times to support...anything. BTW, Drudge reporting 500 more staffers from your 'gold standard' being laid-off today. Layoffs not always a bad thing, no?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/business/media/14cnd-times.html

Yet again, you are wrong. A parrot I can understand blindly repeating things it hears. You don't have a valid excuse, other than sheer ignorance and/or laziness.

They are eliminating 100 positions, mainly through attrition or buyouts. But there is a chance of layoffs. But nowhere near 500.

It is really tiring having to continually correct you. It really shouldn't be much of a surprise by now, but it is what it is.

[Passacaglia]

Riiiight! This coming from a man that would use the New York Times to support...anything. BTW, Drudge reporting 500 more staffers from your 'gold standard' being laid-off today. Layoffs not always a bad thing, no?

Yeah...I'm sure the employees just know they're going to get hired back in a few months, so they're cool with it. :rolleyes:

By the way, cartman never called anything a gold standard. :confused:

[Cringer]

They should go old school and build a mote.

Texas does have a mote, it's called the Rio Grande. They pull bodies out of it all the time, especially lately. Now it will be a mote with an 18 ft. concrete wall.

[Bubba Wheels]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/business/media/14cnd-times.html

Yet again, you are wrong. A parrot I can understand blindly repeating things it hears. You don't have a valid excuse, other than sheer ignorance and/or laziness.

They are eliminating 100 positions, mainly through attrition or buyouts. But there is a chance of layoffs. But nowhere near 500.

It is really tiring having to continually correct you. It really shouldn't be much of a surprise by now, but it is what it is.

Yes, I stand corrected. Just wishful thinking on my part. I like parrots, but what has that got to do with a failing Newspaper that you like to use as a source for fact-reporting? Don't get that one.

[Bubba Wheels]

Yet another stooge enters into the ring with H E R C U L E S ! ! ! Bring 'em all on!

[Bubba Wheels]

Bubba:

I hoped to clear this up for you. He's stating that he believes that you have the intelligence of a parrot, merely posting whatever links you find on various rightwing websites and e-mail forwards here without any thought or reason.

It actually doesn't have anything to do with a newspaper, except that I imagine you line the bottom of a bird cage with one.

Uh...Time Magazine is right wing? That's a first. :rolleyes:

[cartman]

Yes, I stand corrected. Just wishful thinking on my part. I like parrots, but what has that got to do with a failing Newspaper that you like to use as a source for fact-reporting? Don't get that one.

Of course you don't. I covered that up in the ignorant and/or lazy part. I really don't see how $209 million in earnings on $3.2 billion in revenue is 'failing'. I guess that is more 'wishful thinking' on your part.

[Bubba Wheels]

Of course you don't. I covered that up in the ignorant and/or lazy part. I really don't see how $209 million in earnings on $3.2 billion in revenue is 'failing'. I guess that is more 'wishful thinking' on your part.

Your 'success' just laid-off another 100 staffers! Guess, like the word 'is', success and failure is all in the definition, eh?

[Bubba Wheels]

I can use that smilie too Bubba :rolleyes:

That's the eyeroll, this is the 'smilie.' :)

First means, "can't believe he said or believes that." Second just means 'have a nice day.' Really, have one! :)

[Passacaglia]

Yet another stooge enters into the ring with H E R C U L E S ! ! ! Bring 'em all on!

Okay, you're just looking for some petty bickering. Leaving the thread now.

[cartman]

Your 'success' just laid-off another 100 staffers! Guess, like the word 'is', success and failure is all in the definition, eh?

I guess it is just ignorance. There aren't 100 people getting laid off. They are offering buyouts and not filling positions once people leave/retire. I know it is hard for you to comprehend, but those are different than layoffs. By your rationale, any company that has ever had layoffs or reductions in staff are failures.

[JPhillips]

Well, you'll have some problem with this I'm sure, but shows a M A J O R I T Y of Americans DO support the fence. http://www.serve.com/Lincolnheritage2/LHI-Americans_Support_Border_Fence.htm

Note the words: 1. Landslide and 2. Time Magazine, hardly a fortress of Conservativism.

I'm not even arguing whether a majority do or don't support the wall. I'm pointing out the fact that you're using the "majority says" argument only when it supports your ideology and ignoring it when it doesn't. In reality you don't care what the majority wants.

[Bubba Wheels]

I'm not even arguing whether a majority do or don't support the wall. I'm pointing out the fact that you're using the "majority says" argument only when it supports your ideology and ignoring it when it doesn't. In reality you don't care what the majority wants.

You can find sources for any side of an argument. But when two sides use two sources and both sources used come from the left, contradict each other, and one is always dishonest in its support of an agenda, when using that particular one you should probably use a different one if one can be found. My opinion. Talking NYTimes vs. Time Magazine.

[JPhillips]

You can find sources for any side of an argument, but when both sources used come from the left, contradict each other, and one is always dishonest in its support of an agenda, you should probably use a different one if one can be found. My opinion. Talking NYTimes vs. Time Magazine.

WOOHOO!! {waves hands} The point is over here!

You= The majority says build a wall so we should.

Me= The majority says a path to citizenship, so we should?

You= No. I believe in doing what the majority says.

Me= ???

You= Drudge. Lefty New York Times layoffs. What's a parrot? Lou Dobbs smells like English leather.

[Bubba Wheels]

WOOHOO!! {waves hands} The point is over here!

You= The majority says build a wall so we should.

Me= The majority says a path to citizenship, so we should?

You= No. I believe in doing what the majority says.

Me= ???

You= Drudge. Lefty New York Times layoffs. What's a parrot? Lou Dobbs smells like English leather.

Drudge passes along info from many sources, so its a good place to find 'many sources.' Can't make that any simpler. ALL information HAS to come from a source, the question then becomes how reliable/honest/accurate is that source. You yourself are not going first-hand up to any and all participants standing along the border and asking them what's happening, so like it or not you're just as dependent on 'sources' as I am. Or Cartman, or anybody else.

And I can't smell Lou Dobbs myself, my TV doesn't come equipped with 'smell-o'vision' yet.

[cartman]

Well, Cringer lives on the border, and you dismissed him out of hand because he said that the people there didn't want the wall.

[WVUFAN]

However, I think the point you make early (far too many to track) makes the rest of the solution impossible, IMO. Going after organizations and companies makes sense and is a great starting point, but trying to keep "illegals" out of the schools and hospitals is akin to a "round-up" since it has to happen individual-for-individual.

Fair point. And you're probably right. However, one of the reasons many head over here illegally is because of health care, education, and citizenship for those born here. I think by somehow working to remove those incentives would help.

Then again, it could just force those already here to go even further underground and into illegal activities here. There's not an easy solution. I just feel that by creating an anmesty program, you're in effect rewarding illegal behavior.

But, no, a wall is cost-prohibitive, unfair to local landowners and just won't work. Too much land to cover. Plus, as someone has pointed out, it reminds me too much of the Berlin Wall, and that turned out REALLY well for the Russians.

[Izulde]

Uh...Time Magazine is right wing? That's a first. :rolleyes:

It's right-leaning, yes. Of course, you're so far out in right field, David Duke likely looks liberal to you.

[SFL Cat]

I, for one, am all in favor of curbing illegal immigration. It seems to me the only ones who want illegals streaming into this country unopposed are those who exploit them as cheap labor. No natural born citizen would work for the slave wages offered to these people.

I would much rather give preference to those who "play by the rules" to get into this country.

And if you are going to come to this country, learn English dammit.

[duckman]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/duckman76/a49dcfeb.jpg?t=1203080430

[Desnudo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

All this info for a fantasy, eh?

Yes, that's why they call it "theoretical." I, for one, am strongly in favor of lower tequila and Canadian beer prices anyway.