Stats Question (Extender-Related)

[Ben E Lou]

An offensive lineman has a top-tier (for FOF) season. I'm talking the best ever by an offensive lineman. In my 40+ year career, the record for KRBs is 59, 21 for pancakes, and an outstanding season would be 50% of KRBOs converted. So let's say a guy is 60 for 120 in KRBs, has 20 pancakes, and only allows 2 sacks.

Is he a candidate for OPOY? If not, where should he stack up with the QBs/RBs/WRs? With a QB who threw for 3,500 yards and 30 TDs? 90 QB rating? 1,300 yards rushing? 1,000 yards receiving? Below all of those guys?


EDIT TO ADD: As of the time of posting this thread, the formulas I have would have such a player finishing with 161.5 points, which would have been #45 in the WOOF last season. Some nearby players (within 10% of that score) include:

WR Otis Butterworth: 67 catches, 1093 yards, 8 TDs, 6 drops, 9.34 yards per target
QB Zach Baker: 322 for 499, 3155 yards, 22 TDs, 17 INts, 82.7 QB Rating, 6.32ypa
RB Bryant Barker: 286 carries, 1181 yards, 10 TDs, 4.13ypc, 13 catches, 105 yards, 0 TDs.

[Chubby]

Personally I don't think he would rank with any of those positions. The reality is that an OLineman is never, ever going to win OPOY or MVP in the NFL and therefore shouldn't win them in FOF either.

[Ben E Lou]

How far down the list then? 10th? 20th? 50th?

[Joe]

10th-ish

[Skolleck]

Well, first you must figure that the OLine always gets screwed on stats.

Second in a team game how much can one OL player make?

A QB/WR/RB/CB/DE can and do make major impacts in a game. How many teams win due to one player? Most of those are QB, some RB and a few WR - on the Def I have seen a great DE turn the tide or a great LB, or a pick in the end zone.

I have watched FOF games where I thought; "Wow, what a great game player X, is having" on the OLine, but that seems to be few and far in between, and of course, not a real sample.

Overall, I cannot see the Heisman or the NFL MVP award ever going to an O-Lineman. Only because most people do not pay attention to what really happens during a play.

If this player was a major factor in the wins of the team, I would vote for him.

But folks call me odd....

:D

[Chubby]

A best season ever for an OL would probably net him 5th in a "down" year for the other positions IMO. He wouldn't come close to stud years from skill positions but I think could crack 5th in a down year. Now in years it's not the best EVAR than he wouldn't even rank top 50.

[Skolleck]

How far down the list then? 10th? 20th? 50th?


Not sure what you mean here, the value to the team, or the overall ranking in the MVP list.

The value to the team is fairly easy to measure, but the overall ranking for an OL on the top MVP list? ouch.

Not sure they rate above 10th, again unless there are some amazing stats to prove otherwise, and what I saw was not worth an MVP vote.

All-Pro, of course, but no MVP.

[Ben E Lou]

I meant how far down the OPOY list overall. Obviously, this isn't hard and fast, but it would be great if the output reflects some general consensus.

[ZootMurph]

Consider the effect his awesome season had on his team as compared to other guys... Would you say those 60 run blocks equalled 6 yds each? 10 maybe? So he basically would be the same as a 360 yd rusher as far as calculating OPOY.

So, I would suggest finding a common denominator... if not yards, then the effects of his season as compared to a 'normal' season. It's great and all that, but he wasn't one of the top 3 contributing factors to the success of his offense (if his offense was successful).

Just my n00bish two cents :)

[Synovia]

"Would you say those 60 run blocks equalled 6 yds each?"

I'd say those equaled 6 yards in critical situations. His contribution can't be just measured by that.


I think O-L:ineman get robbed. If the guy puts up the best season for a lineman ever, he should be in contention for OPOY, whether or not he'd have a chance in the NFL.

[Narcizo]

Based on the numbers you listed for other positions I'd have to say he deserves more recognition than those guys. Top ten maybe.

PS I think the Equaliser over-emphasizes touchdowns but that's neither here nor there, so I won't mention it. Oh. Oopps!

[Dutch]

How can you give an offensive player of the year award to an offensive guy who is unique in the fact that he can't legally touch the ball? Face it, lineman are just different.

What the NFL fails to do is properly is recognize offensive lineman with their own end of season category.

But if a 3rd party developer were crafty enough, they could seperate the lineman from the bunch and finally give those lineman the recognition they deserve...at least for fake football players.

"Lineman of the Year" -- Oh yeah...what o-lineman wouldn't love to see that?

[Ben E Lou]

How can you give an offensive player of the year award to an offensive guy who is unique in the fact that he can't legally touch the ball? Face it, lineman are just different.

What the NFL fails to do is properly is recognize offensive lineman with their own end of season category.

But if a 3rd party developer were crafty enough, they could seperate the lineman from the bunch and finally give those lineman the recognition they deserve...at least for fake football players.

"Lineman of the Year" -- Oh yeah...what o-lineman wouldn't love to see that?

This answer seems to ring the most true to me. Greg has already added the All-Pro and All-Rookie teams. "Lineman of the Week" and "Lineman of the Year" seem to make a lot of sense to me.

[gstelmack]

This answer seems to ring the most true to me. Greg has already added the All-Pro and All-Rookie teams. "Lineman of the Week" and "Lineman of the Year" seem to make a lot of sense to me.

( sigh ) You want me to get that other thing done, or keep adding stuff to Extender? Work work work work work.

:D

[Ben E Lou]

( sigh ) You want me to get that other thing done, or keep adding stuff to Extender? Work work work work work.

:D
Hey, I didn't realize you were already starting on that other thing until you told me a few mintues ago. :p

[MIJB#19]

I'm probably kind of alone in this, but I'd say an offensive linemen is part of the offense and thus should be eliglible for OPOY. The OL players do make the difference between gaining 1 yard for the touchdown and not losing 10 yards on a passing play. Maybe he (or they)? would be better served as an MVP candidate? A seperate lineman award would probably make more sense, if looking at OPOY candidates. For MVP, why not if the player truely is the Most valuable player for his team?

[QuikSand]

I don't think it's possible to find "general consensus" on this, especially with the...uh... varied opinions that have already been posited.

I'd also note that for many of us, understanding the nature of the KRB stat in FOF makes us fairly *less* appreciative of that stat lending all that much to the weight given to a lineman. In short, it just isn't what many people think it is, or what a stat with that name might actually mean in real football.


With that caveat... I think I'm basically with Joe above in terms of finger-in-the-breeze. A superior season from an individual offensive lineman probably ought to vault him to a slot like 10th or so on the list toward being named offensive player of the year. I'd say 50th is too low... and top 3 or 5 is likely too high. But in any realistic measurement, he still should rank behind the top-tier passers, backs, and maybe even receivers.

[MalcPow]

I'm more in the camp that the best offensive lineman season ever should rank around 25th, and coming in at 45th doesn't seem to be a travesty to me. At 25th, you're basically saying that this guy contributed more to the offensive production of his team than the skill position players on half the league's teams (there are usually a couple guys from some teams in the top 25).

I'm definitely in favor of a "lineman of the year" award (thanks Greg!) though, because all that said, it's worth recognizing excellence even if its contribution doesn't equate to a merely very good performance from other positions.