Getting Laid Off

[Galaril]

I find out tomorrow if I get laid off. I am assuming the worst since from all indications it will happen. I am wondering since I have only been with this company for 16 months as an Sr.information security engineer/risk consulant if I should be asking for a severance package or not since it is based on the companies current business downturn? And if so how much a month two months? I am thinking that alot of companies don't give severance unless it is for management positions.

[CU Tiger]

Do you have a non-compete?

If so, Id ask for severance through the duration or a removal of it.
it probably wouldnt hold in court anyway, but make it easy on yourslef if you can.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Why not ask? All they can say is no.

[molson]

Good luck. I'll expect you in the drunk thread tomorrow night either way.

[Lorena]

Dang, that's a bummer to hear Galaril. Seems like this is happening to a lot of FOFCers.

Whatever happens, good luck.

[Galaril]

Do you have a non-compete?

If so, Id ask for severance through the duration or a removal of it.
it probably wouldnt hold in court anyway, but make it easy on yourslef if you can.

That is a good question because the job am on now actuall is being turned into an internal position at the client site and I was hoping to apply for it.

[Galaril]

Good luck. I'll expect you in the drunk thread tomorrow night either way.

Dang, that's a bummer to hear Galaril. Seems like this is happening to a lot of FOFCers.

Whatever happens, good luck.

Thanks. I am not panicking since I feel very confident in picking up a better job both pay and benefits wise. I have my master degree and a couple of very helpful certifications(CISM,CISSP) so I am confident. The thing that sucks is we were looking to buy a home in 3 weeks!

[cartman]

Why not ask? All they can say is no.

+1

[BrianD]

That is a good question because the job am on now actuall is being turned into an internal position at the client site and I was hoping to apply for it.

I would talk to your company about approaching this client for a permanent placement. If your company lays you off, they have to deal with unemployment payments, but if they can place you at the client, they might get some kind of kick-back from the client. You would probably be a good fit at the client since you are already familiar with the environment. Your company could also pick up some goodwill from you for taking care of you and you may be able to throw some business back their way. Sounds like a potential win for everyone.

[Flasch186]

ask W for a job, he says the economy is strong and stable.

sorry, but im seeing more and more people laid off and its pissing me off.

[Philliesfan980]

I work for a technology company in the finance department, so I see this sort of stuff all the time. Generally speaking, for a termination we'll give 2 weeks lieu of notice pay (that's the pay you get for them not giving you two weeks notice), and another 2 weeks for every year that you were with the company. So even if you've only been with the company a year, you still get a month of salary, which isn't too bad in my opinion (provided you are marketable and can get another job in a month).

[Galaril]

I work for a technology company in the finance department, so I see this sort of stuff all the time. Generally speaking, for a termination we'll give 2 weeks lieu of notice pay (that's the pay you get for them not giving you two weeks notice), and another 2 weeks for every year that you were with the company. So even if you've only been with the company a year, you still get a month of salary, which isn't too bad in my opinion (provided you are marketable and can get another job in a month).

Thanks. Plus I have two weeks of vacation time so i am hoping to add that and get about 6 weeks which is all I need.

[Philliesfan980]

Thanks. Plus I have two weeks of vacation time so i am hoping to add that and get about 6 weeks which is all I need.

Good luck, hopefully it doesn't happen to you. How big is the company? That also goes a long way in determining if they have a RIF severance type program.

[Galaril]

It is 8000 employees so fairly big. But, I know we have severnace that is optional I think the department manager decides not sure?

[Philliesfan980]

It is 8000 employees so fairly big. But, I know we have severnace that is optional I think the department manager decides not sure?


A lot of the times its actually an HR initiative. It's easier to just pay someone 4 weeks rather than be known as a company who just throws someone out in the cold without warning.

[Toddzilla]

Your company may fall under the provisions of the WARN act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WARN_Act), in which case you'll be entitled to a severance, a 60-day notice, or both...

[JonInMiddleGA]

sorry, but im seeing more and more people laid off and its pissing me off.

And, conversely, we're seeing business picking up (for both us & several clients) for the first time in well over a year.

[Flasch186]

conversely shmoversely!

[Warhammer]

I would plan as if you would be out of work for longer. If you can hold things together for a while, it might be best to act as a free agent. Play the field and see what else is out there.

I was laid off in November and thought I'd have a job by the end of January. Its March and I still don't have one. However, I have three companies that are very interested in me. For one I have two stages left in the process, for another, they notified me that I was a finalist, and the last one I have an interview with this afternoon. My point is, you might not get a job quickly, but you might have several options to choose from which is always a nice position to be in.

[Warhammer]

And, conversely, we're seeing business picking up (for both us & several clients) for the first time in well over a year.

Actually, outside of the home sector business is doing pretty dang well. The company that laid me off is having some of their best months in some time right now and asked if I wanted my job back. Of course, that ended when I asked them about the money they owe me.

[lordscarlet]

A no compete can't hold up if you're laid off.

And I wouldn't expect to get more than 2-4 weeks severance.

[Arles]

A lot of the times its actually an HR initiative. It's easier to just pay someone 4 weeks rather than be known as a company who just throws someone out in the cold without warning.
There's also the benefit of essentially knowing the person you laid off will not be bringing a suit against you (some states may be a little different here).

[BrianD]

Your company may fall under the provisions of the WARN act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WARN_Act), in which case you'll be entitled to a severance, a 60-day notice, or both...

This is true, but it requires a lot of people to be laid off at once. I believe we are talking about greater than 1/3 of the force in a 51+ person building. This mainly covers plant closings and the like.

[Philliesfan980]

There's also the benefit of essentially knowing the person you laid off will not be bringing a suit against you (some states may be a little different here).

That's true. I know we make people sign an agreement when accepting the severance. I've never seen the actual agreement, but I bet it has some no-sue provisions in there.

[Greyroofoo]

Wow, right now I'm trying to decide whether or not to stay in the Military or take a job offer on the outside. Reading about people getting laid off makes me want to stay in.

[Maple Leafs]

The company likely has a policy on severance -- I doubt they negotiate it individually unless they are very small.

However, remember that you shouldn't have to sign anything right away. They'll present you with a package of some sort and probably tell you it's the standard one. You're within your rights to ask for some time to review it. At that point you can have it reviewed by a lawyer and/or talk to other people who were also laid off and make sure what you're getting is fair.

Don't act like you're looking to pick a fight or lawyer up, just tell them this comes as a bit of a shock and you'd like a day or two to look things over.

[Galaril]

A no compete can't hold up if you're laid off.

And I wouldn't expect to get more than 2-4 weeks severance.

The company likely has a policy on severance -- I doubt they negotiate it individually unless they are very small.

However, remember that you shouldn't have to sign anything right away. They'll present you with a package of some sort and probably tell you it's the standard one. You're within your rights to ask for some time to review it. At that point you can have it reviewed by a lawyer and/or talk to other people who were also laid off and make sure what you're getting is fair.

Don't act like you're looking to pick a fight or lawyer up, just tell them this comes as a bit of a shock and you'd like a day or two to look things over.


So I found from my company that one I am being laid off and that we don't have severance program for anyone laid off. I am basically the only one being laid off .Since I work in the northeast remotely from my main offcies out of Denver where most of our work is and the position/role I am now fill at our client is becoming a fulltime position internally for them I am losing the job. My company is a company of over 8000 , so I am actually surprised that there isn't severance. But not a huge deal to me it would have been nice. One thing I have been offered the position by my client organization to come on board as an employee and my company has already agreed to keep up the relationship they have with this client.........Now here is where some problems come up. I hope I don't lose anyone, it is a little involved. My company has a noncopmpete in place which I signed and as far as I know it is binding regardless if I get severance or not. The problem I have is they will "allow" me to take this new job with the client but they have worked out some type of payment plan agreement where for a month or two the client company will continue to pay my company a fee as well as pay my salary as a regular employee. The problem with this for me you ask? Is I had everything set to relocate to Denver in May (fortunately no house bought yet) until I found out I was being canned. We are still set on relocating to Denver but that might be delayed unless I can find job in Denver. The job search is going quite well and I have few solid leads with in person interviews set up and having completed positive results in phone interviews. So if I get one of these jobs in the next couple of weeks no problem I turn down my client company job that I am now fillign and move to Denver. But if I don't geta job in Denver in the next couple of weeks I will have to take this job locally and wait until I get something set up in Denver some thime in the next 6-9 months. I am worried about is with this agreement of getting some payment for my transition over between my old company and my new company (current client). I worry that if I take this job and maybe two months later to go to Denver for a better job that my client company will ask me to pay back that money they had to pay out to my old company. I could just ask the new company when I negotiate the contract but I don't want to tip them off that I am not looking to stay in this position long term since that might risk me even getting the job.
On a related note I am thinking my company will try to make this out as a legal voluntary choice by myself to move to this other company when they do there contract stuff between the two company's. That would be a problem if as it looks I am one way or the other going to have about a month of unemployment and wouldn't be able to collect unemployment benefits.

[BrianD]

It will be a voluntary choice by you if you go to the client rather than get laid off. Basically you are becoming a full-time employee of the client and the client is essentially "buying out" your non-compete agreement. The only way you could get unemployment benefits from this is if you are unemployed between working for your current company and working for the client full-time. If you then leave the client after you become a full-time employee to take a job in Denver, you won't be entitled to any unemployment because you left your employer.

You will also want to pay attention to any agreements you sign with the client. Your current company and the client may make special arrangements for what happens if you don't last there, but they may also try to work in an arrangement with you. Don't sign anything with makes you responsible for more than you are willing to agree to.

[Galaril]

It will be a voluntary choice by you if you go to the client rather than get laid off. Basically you are becoming a full-time employee of the client and the client is essentially "buying out" your non-compete agreement. The only way you could get unemployment benefits from this is if you are unemployed between working for your current company and working for the client full-time. If you then leave the client after you become a full-time employee to take a job in Denver, you won't be entitled to any unemployment because you left your employer.

You will also want to pay attention to any agreements you sign with the client. Your current company and the client may make special arrangements for what happens if you don't last there, but they may also try to work in an arrangement with you. Don't sign anything with makes you responsible for more than you are willing to agree to.


Brian,
Thanks. I didn't explain the unemployment thing well iny previous post. What I was wondering is if there is a gap between leaving my current company and starting with the new client firm will I be able to collect unemployment. I realize that when and if I elave a job voluntarily to move to Denver I won't get unemployment but that is ok because in the case of moving I would have a job and relocation assist (hopefully) set up. Thnaks for your insight though.

[Arles]

I am worried about is with this agreement of getting some payment for my transition over between my old company and my new company (current client). I worry that if I take this job and maybe two months later to go to Denver for a better job that my client company will ask me to pay back that money they had to pay out to my old company.
We did something a little similar in where we transition a contractor in Ohio to become a full-time employee in Phoenix. As part of the offer for employment, we stated that if this person left before 2 years was up, they would have to pay the pro-rated portion of the relocation. However, we prorate by year. So, if they left 8 months in, they would have to pay back the full relocation (only after the 1st year would it be cut in half).

As long as you make sure there is nothing like that in your offer/contract for employment, you should be OK. IIRC, we've had spots placed involving a "finder's fee" with that person leaving within a year and we never penalized the employee.

On a related note I am thinking my company will try to make this out as a legal voluntary choice by myself to move to this other company when they do there contract stuff between the two company's. That would be a problem if as it looks I am one way or the other going to have about a month of unemployment and wouldn't be able to collect unemployment benefits.
I would get a clear explanation of this by your company. Since they are not giving you severance, I think you may be right here. They would save some cash if they are able to simply "place" you with the new company in a fulltime role instead of formally lay you off. On the positive side, this decreases the chance of you being held accountable for leaving early since it seems your company will have an agreement in place independent of your formal involvement. Just check any employment agreement and be sure there is no fee for leaving early.

[BrianD]

Brian,
Thanks. I didn't explain the unemployment thing well iny previous post. What I was wondering is if there is a gap between leaving my current company and starting with the new client firm will I be able to collect unemployment. I realize that when and if I elave a job voluntarily to move to Denver I won't get unemployment but that is ok because in the case of moving I would have a job and relocation assist (hopefully) set up. Thnaks for your insight though.

If there is a gap in that transition, you should be able to collect unemployment. Your current company is transitioning you to a new placement, so you wouldn't be responsible for the gap. Since the client will be paying your current company, I think you are protected from having this be considered your choice. In practical matters, your current company will probably want to do everything possible to not let there be a gap. Since it is a current client, the transition should be fairly straightforward. Also, your company won't want to deal with any unemployment paperwork or HR hassles with COBRA insurance forms, so it is in their best interest to make this happen without any gaps.

[lordscarlet]

I don't see how the contractor can demand any money if they fire you. You should just wait to work for the client until your termination is official.

[BrianD]

I don't see how the contractor can demand any money if they fire you. You should just wait to work for the client until your termination is official.

What is the benefit to waiting? Stick it to the current company by denying them a placement fee and making them deal with unemployment paperwork? That would be a great way to ensure that they try to enforce the non-compete. They may not be able to properly enforce it, but why deal with the hassle? Take the placement, let everyone come out ahead, and strengthen a relationship which might be beneficial in the future.

[DaddyTorgo]

What is the benefit to waiting? Stick it to the current company by denying them a placement fee and making them deal with unemployment paperwork? That would be a great way to ensure that they try to enforce the non-compete. They may not be able to properly enforce it, but why deal with the hassle? Take the placement, let everyone come out ahead, and strengthen a relationship which might be beneficial in the future.

+1

[Galaril]

I agree. The best of both worlds will be there is no gap and I can transition over. Now that being said what I am really hoping for is that on eof 4-5 interviews I have lined up in Denver the week afetr next pans out and we just move to Denver in May as planned and start a new job. This position is actually insurance. Thanks to evryone for giving me there experiences with this it has been pretty crappy but as they say one door cloases and new doors open.

[Galaril]

So, finally I got laid off today. My boss give me to weeks severnace pay along with getting 12 days of vacation time cashed in at 125% which will keep me going for about a month. The non-compete also has been dropped and the client job is mine if I want it. But, the best news is I have got by four different jobs phone interviews and am scheduled for in person interviews in two weeks out in Denver. It looks like I will have a couple of very good offers to choose from so we are hopefully we can keep our plan for buying a home and moving in place.................One question how can I get an idea of what unemployment will pay since in a few weeks I will have some down time and that could help out until I start the new job. How do they determine unemployment payments?

[cthomer5000]

1. File for unemployment immediately. I know in New Jersey I was able to collect immediately, even if I received a severance. Waiting just means you're going to wait longer to get paid. This is what this is there for, when you're put out of work. Read up and file on this today or tomorrow.

2. There is probably a max amount you can receive (this is the case in NJ). The NJ limit basically made it so anyone making a full-time sort of salary would hit the max. It was like $400 a week, if i recall correctly.


What state do you live/work in?

[BrianD]

The short answer to that question is "not enough". In Wisconsin (I'm assuming each state is different), the weekly rate is between $53 and $355. The actual amount is figured at 4% of your highest quarterly earnings over the last 4 quarters. In general terms, it is about 50% of your weekly salary unless you earned more than $35,500/yr.

[BrianD]

dola,

You will also want to read up on your state's unemployment policies. I couldn't claim my benefits until after the severance period, and vacation payout also messed up claiming my benefits. I basically had to wait until I was done getting any money from my previous employer. I have no idea what happens if you move to a different state while unemployed.

[Galaril]

I live in Massachusetts but work for a company out Colorado and my job is in Rhode Island.Wow $400 with awife (not working ) and two kids don't pay shit!

[BrianD]

I live in Massachusetts but work for a company out Colorado and my job is in Rhode Island.Wow $400 with awife (not working ) and two kids don't pay shit!

And the best part of that is that there are no taxes withheld from that $400, so you can expect to have to pay a bunch back at tax time.

[Galaril]

And the best part of that is that there are no taxes withheld from that $400, so you can expect to have to pay a bunch back at tax time.

Well, I guess this is one of those times when I love the liberal state of Massachusetts. The weekly pay out is 650 a week and after taxes it is still 550 a week. That is even close to 100k I was making in my job but will soften the blow until I start a new job. Thanks to everyone who has ehlped me out here by answering questions.