You make the call!: Mom vs. Cops

[Kodos]

Read the article and then vote. Did this lady deserve to be arrested?

hxxp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080312/ap_on_re_us/mom_on_trial;_ylt=Aoh6PZ.cpe8s1xVWV.WTpi6s0NUE

Mom faces trial for leaving child in car
By DON BABWIN, Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO - Treffly Coyne was out of her car for just minutes and no more than 10 yards away.

But that was long and far enough to land her in court after a police officer spotted her sleeping 2-year-old daughter alone in the vehicle; Coyne had taken her two older daughters to pour $8.29 in coins into a Salvation Army kettle.

Minutes later, she was under arrest — the focus of both a police investigation and a probe by the state's child welfare agency. Now the case that has become an Internet flash point for people who either blast police for overstepping their authority or Coyne for putting a child in danger.

The 36-year-old suburban mother is preparing to go on trial Thursday on misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and obstructing a peace officer. If convicted, she could be sentenced to a year in jail and fined $2,500, even though child welfare workers found no credible evidence of abuse or neglect.

On Dec. 8 Coyne decided to drive to Wal-Mart in the Chicago suburb of Crestwood so her children and a young friend could donate the coins they'd collected at her husband's office.

Even as she buckled 2-year-old Phoebe into the car, the girl was asleep. When Coyne arrived at the store, she found a spot to park in a loading zone, right behind someone tying a Christmas tree onto a car.

"It's sleeting out, it's not pleasant, I don't want to disturb her, wake her up," Coyne said this week. "It was safer to leave her in the safety and warmth of an alarmed car than take her."

So Coyne switched on the emergency flashers, locked the car, activated the alarm and walked the other children to the bell ringer.

She snapped a few pictures of the girls donating money and headed back to the car. But a community service officer blocked her way.

"She was on a tirade, she was yelling at me," Coyne said. The officer, Coyne said, didn't want to hear about how close Coyne was, how she never set foot inside the store and was just there to let the kids donate money, or how she could always see her car.

Coyne telephoned her husband, Tim Janecyk, who advised her not to say anything else to police until he arrived. So Coyne declined to talk further, refusing even to tell police her child's name.

When Janecyk pulled up, his wife already was handcuffed, sitting in a patrol car.

Crestwood Police Chief Timothy Sulikowski declined to comment about the case. But he did not dispute the contention that Coyne parked nearby or was away from her car for just a few minutes.

He did, however, suggest Coyne put her child at risk.

"A minute or two, that's when things can happen," he said.

Talk about the case has intensified, particularly online, where bloggers are weighing in on various message boards.

Many have harsh words for the police department, calling the arrest of a mother who left her child in a locked car for a few minutes an abuse of authority.

Yet statistics show thousands of children are injured and dozens die every year after being left unattended near or inside vehicles.

"I am talking tens of thousands of people who leave their kids in the car for any period of time all around America," said Janette Fennell, founder and president of Kansas-based Kids and Cars. "People don't appreciate the dangers of leaving a child alone in the car."

Coyne's attorney, Michelle Forbes, argued that Coyne did not break the law any more than a mother who parks in front of a school in a rainstorm and leaves an infant in the car as she runs a few feet to pick up another child.

"As long as the car is not out of her sight, then the child is not unattended," she said.

Cars with children inside have been stolen while the owners stepped inside service stations to pay for gas, Fennell said. Children sitting in cars have choked on things they stuck in their mouths. On Tuesday in Houston, after a woman got out of her car to walk across the street to talk to someone, her toddler was killed after he climbed out and tried to follow her.

"That child was also 2," Fennell said, referring to Coyne's daughter.

Coyne and her husband believe she is unfairly being lumped in with parents who put their children's lives at risk.

"If I were going on a shopping spree then, yes, I would deserve arrest," Coyne said. "I was standing right there. I never went into the store.

"I'm a great parent."

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I'm going to weigh in on the side of the Mom.

The kid was in plain sight, strapped into a car seat. She wasn't going anywhere. The car was locked, no one was going to kidnap the kid.

And hell this is Chicago in December, couldn't a case be made then that taking a warm child out of a warm car into freezing temperatures is endangering the child?

[Kodos]

I agree. She had the situation under control and shouldn't have been arrested. Standing 20 feet away from a locked car is a lot different than going into the station.

[Subby]

Wow that article just made me really angry.

The car is locked and alarmed and in plain sight of the mother.

Way to incorrectly apply the law you fucking assclowns.

[molson]

We charge a lot of these cases. (both winter and summer versions).

The typical resolution is dismissal if they complete a parenting class. Our police also wouldn't arrest in a situation like this, but issue a summons.

It's tough to know what to do. It's certainly great for public awareness. And if the state ignores it, and the lady turns out to be a meth addict who kills her kid shortly thereafter, that's a problem.

"Injury to Child" statutes are extremely vague. Is it a crime when your 3-year old kid get out and runs around the neighborhood for 4 hours? What about 30 minutes? What if you're doing meth in the bathroom while this is going on? Is it worse if the kid actually gets hit by car? But aren't we trying to prevent that, and if so, why wait for that for this to be criminal?

If the "community service" officer saw her the entire time she left the car, and was apparently "nearby", then obviously she shouldn't have been charged. But I wonder if she just saw a kid alone in a car and assumed the lady, was just downplaying/lying about "being right here". (assuming that this is true, and she wasn't actually in the store for 45 minutes). There might be a part of this story we're not hearing.

[sabotai]

The lesson here is to not have kids. Having a child puts that child's life at risk.

[Kodos]

The little girl across the street (I think she just turned 4) was out in her front yard apparently unsupervised for an extended time about a month ago. I was keeping an eye on her and wondering what was wrong with our neighbors that they would let that happen. They seem like decent people from our brief interactions.

[Lathum]

I agree the cops were being assclowns that being said the law is the law.

[Klinglerware]

The lesson here is to not have kids. Having a child puts that child's life at risk.

Don't associate with the Salvation Army, either.

[korme]

And you wonder why police get a bad rep

[Marc Vaughan]

Total joke in that situation imho ...

I'd say pretty much every parent has done something similar at some point or another, I know I have.

[INDalltheway]

Dirty dirty coppers

[st.cronin]

I think there's more to the story. It reads like the police had their eye on her for some reason.

[SackAttack]

Y'know, I'm one of the first to call out assclown parents, but that doesn't seem like what was going on here.

On the other hand, I don't think the cop was being a dick intentionally. I think it's just more hypervigilance gone awry than anything else.

Shame it's gotta go to trial, because you know the city isn't going to reimburse the woman if the jury finds that the arrest occurred improperly, unless the woman is willing to file a lawsuit to recover damages.

[Mustang]

Something seems off.

The police officer would have needed to notice and inspect the car in the time that the person left the car and donated the money and came back.

Maybe they pulled up, the officer was right there and came running up to check the car out because it was in a loading zone with the blinkers on, but if it was sleeting just doesn't seem like they would be hanging around outside.

Plus, if it was sleeting, I doubt the Salvation Army person was outside, they probably were in Wal-marts little waiting area which is through doors and technically the same as someone going into a gas station.

[Marc Vaughan]

Plus, if it was sleeting, I doubt the Salvation Army person was outside, they probably were in Wal-marts little waiting area which is through doors and technically the same as someone going into a gas station.

Our local Walmart has a covered area where the people collecting stand - this ensures that the Girl Guides can make you feel guilty about trying to eat healthily whatever the weather ;)

[Noop]

They're both wrong.

[Jim G.]

The little girl across the street (I think she just turned 4) was out in her front yard apparently unsupervised for an extended time about a month ago. I was keeping an eye on her and wondering what was wrong with our neighbors that they would let that happen. They seem like decent people from our brief interactions.

Things have certainly changed since I was a kid. I could roam to the neighbors at that age. Nobody thought twice about it.

[bulletsponge]

in the trust department

Mom>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government workers

[molson]

Things have certainly changed since I was a kid. I could roam to the neighbors at that age. Nobody thought twice about it.

And there were at least as many perverts around then, and and they probably blended in better because we were more trusting.

Once the perverted kidnapper became part of our national culture, kids got restrained basically to make the parents feel better, not because of any statistical increase in incidents.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=59750&highlight=monticello

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm in the minority vote on this one because, like Molson mentioned, I don't believe the whole story is included on this one.

[flere-imsaho]

Here's the bit that convinced me to vote for the Mom:

If convicted, she could be sentenced to a year in jail and fined $2,500, even though child welfare workers found no credible evidence of abuse or neglect.

Of course, this is the same city where I got a traffic ticket for stopping to pick someone up at O'Hare. Saw the person, pulled up to the curb, stopped the car, the person got in, I took off. One week later I get a ticket in the mail. Which I beat in court, but still....

[Cringer]

I want to know exact distance, and exact time. Based on this article she did no wrong to me, but there are questionable things that are not answered.

I also want to know where they would have drawn the line. Could she have been ten feet away and still been ok? But 20 feet is to far?

Oh, and I suggest these people come ask me where to look for more people to get. I can point out whole neighborhoods were the kids as young as 3-4 walk around unattended.

[Mustang]

Our local Walmart has a covered area where the people collecting stand - this ensures that the Girl Guides can make you feel guilty about trying to eat healthily whatever the weather ;)

Our local Wal-mart, the girl scouts set up shop with a kinda ice cream truck looking thing and sell out of that.

[JAG]

CHICAGO - Treffly Coyne was out of her car for just minutes and no more than 10 yards away.

Assuming that's true, then I side with the Mom. I don't see why she didn't leave one of the other older kids in the car with the 2-yr old though, just in case.

She snapped a few pictures of the girls donating money and headed back to the car. But a community service officer blocked her way.

That was the only thing that gave me some pause about how much she was checking on her car. (taking pictures but keeping an eye on the car?)

EDIT: Wife made a good point that if she was keeping an eye on the car, how did she not notice the officer until she started back to the car?

Yet statistics show thousands of children are injured and dozens die every year after being left unattended near or inside vehicles.

Being unattended for HOW LONG and HOW FAR are those parents from the cars? Yards and minutes for a sleeping kid? Really?

Cars with children inside have been stolen while the owners stepped inside service stations to pay for gas, Fennell said.

Were those cars locked and alarmed?

Children sitting in cars have choked on things they stuck in their mouths.

Were those kids asleep for 20 mins?

On Tuesday in Houston, after a woman got out of her car to walk across the street to talk to someone, her toddler was killed after he climbed out and tried to follow her.

Was that toddler strapped into her car seat and asleep???

"That child was also 2," Fennell said, referring to Coyne's daughter.

Oh, well in that case, GREAT ANALOGY.

[Abe Sargent]

This is just the latest in a continuing trend of "Safety for Kids" which has continued to change our society.

The Baby Monitor made it so a baby could not cry without their parent's being there instantly. When I was a baby, prior to monitors, I probably cried multiple times and no one woke up, and I subconcoiusley learned a lesson - that my parents are not always going to be there.

Then add a cell phone, so the child is in constant communication with their parents.

Rubber on the ground at play stations, made of rubberly plastic instead of wood and metal. Baby seats in the car that are extended to four, five and six in some places. And so on and so forth. This is the Wanted Generation, the Millenials.

As someone who works closely with college age students, this population is very different than mine, and I graduated from HS in 95, and college in 99. The next generation has arrived, and they want their parents involved. I get parent calls almost daily about some concern with their adult child. Where I and my peers would be horrified if our parents called the institution, these kids want it, they expect it.

(Obviously, generational conversation is about generalities, not every child will have these same views.)

This is just another battle in the war for the Safety of Our Children.

I use the terms battle and war loosely, obviously. Yes, when most of us were children, we were allowed to play outside unsupervised, we were left in the car for short periods of time, we would ride in the back of a truck, etc.

However, those battles have been fought and lost a long time ago in many (perhaps most) of the places in the US.

[oliegirl]

I'm definitely on the side of the mother...she didn't go into the store to "pick up a few things", she didn't walk into a gas station to pay for gas, or any other situation where she might be detained by a line, etc... She locked the car and activated the alarm, she took every precaution to make sure the child was safe. The cop was way out of line.

[dervack]

As someone who used to live in Alsip, a neighboring town to Crestwood, this doesn't surprise me. I don't believe she was stopped by a police officer, but someone who drives around in a jeep, who is basically a glorified mall cop. Crestwood has a part-time police force, I believe, which is why they employ these "mall cops" to begin with, to help bring down the costs.

The Crestwood Wal-Mart is also in a part of the village that borders Robbins, a lower-income area and it's possible that the "mall cop" was in the area looking to bust anyone who might have been neglecting a child in anyway. Truly sad that this mom has to deal with this, at all.

[Noop]

What if she locked her keys in the car?

[Drake]

This is why I just smother my kids unconscious and stuff their bodies in the trunk when I'm just going to run into the store for something quick and don't want to be hassled by the cops for leaving my kids in the car.

[Izulde]

Absurd abuse of authority.

Pathetic power-tripping police.

And that's all alliterative. :D

[BYU 14]

I am a big supporter of the Police, but this is just way too much given the facts presented here....vote for Mom.

[cartman]

Surprise. The charges were dropped due to insufficient evidence.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-treffly_14mar14,1,6442162.story

[Kodos]

What if she locked her keys in the car?

I pretty sure she used keyless lock and see the alarm remotely.

[Mustang]

'Coyne and her husband said they have not talked about whether to file a civil suit against the department'

Of course....

[King of New York]

Arresting her was going too far and no tirade was necessary, but a gentle reprimand would have been appropriate. I can see stopping the car, running over to put the money in the Salvation Army basket, and then running back to the car, but stopping to take pictures when you know that you should get back to the car asap? That shows some questionable judgment, imo.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

The lesson here is to not have kids. Having a child puts that child's life at risk.

Maybe they're Catholic. Contraception is now one of the 14 deadly sins!

[Axxon]

Were those kids asleep for 20 mins?


You know what? One time when I was that age, I was asleep for 20 minutes and I woke up. Damnest thing.

You know, I was with your other comments but this one really doesn't make sense.

[Axxon]

Personally I don't think she deserved to be arrested but reprimanded yes but I voted against her for this reason.


"As long as the car is not out of her sight, then the child is not unattended," she said.

That's horse shit. If you're sitting on your porch and your child is playing next to a highway but 1/4 of a mile away, that is NOT attended.

If this is the guideline she uses to monitor her child then she needs a wake up call. Yes, that's my ER worker past talking. I've seen lots of people rely on that definition of attended who were not so happy later.

Again, I don't necessarily think what she was caught doing rises to that level she really needs to rethink that attitude but now we know she won't. She won't kill a potential money maker.

[Axxon]

I just noticed that I've voted with folks I don't normally agree with on this type of issue. Sign of the apocalypse perhaps? :)

[Passacaglia]

Should any potential disasters be measured against how long it would take her to safely pull over, unbuckle her seat belt, then figure out what's wrong? It's not like if she's in the car and driving, she's so much better equipped to handle things.

[Raiders Army]

I voted that the cops shouldn't have done anything, but I'm also a believer in Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

[Axxon]

Should any potential disasters be measured against how long it would take her to safely pull over, unbuckle her seat belt, then figure out what's wrong? It's not like if she's in the car and driving, she's so much better equipped to handle things.

I don't get this argument. At the very least, if she's driving she can drive to the nearest hospital. She can be doing SOMETHING. If she's not in the car, it can take several minutes before she even notices there's an issue and can attempt to get into position to start doing something.

[Castlerock]

The child was in more danger driving to/from WalMart than she was sleeping in the parked car.

[Passacaglia]

I don't get this argument. At the very least, if she's driving she can drive to the nearest hospital. She can be doing SOMETHING. If she's not in the car, it can take several minutes before she even notices there's an issue and can attempt to get into position to start doing something.

If we're talking about driving to the hospital, then it seems like she's in a situation equal to having left the baby in another room of her house.

[Axxon]

I voted that the cops shouldn't have done anything, but I'm also a believer in Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

I don't think Darwin applies to 2 year olds since no mammals at that stage of development ( relatively speaking vs lifespan ) can survive on their own.

Darwin in this sense would be the species in general and I don't think the human species is going to be doomed because of a situation like this quite frankly.

[Axxon]

If we're talking about driving to the hospital, then it seems like she's in a situation equal to having left the baby in another room of her house.

So the game is dueling analogies. No thanks, not gonna play but I've read about tons of kids that age who drown in pools around here and surprisingly many of them got out of the house themselves so you're actually talking about out of eyesight which wasn't part of either scenario we were discussing.

[BrianD]

I don't see how leaving a 2-year old strapped in a car-seat in a locked car with an alarm set qualifies as neglect. The kid isn't going to be able to get out of the car and into danger, and I can't imagine anyone breaking into a locked car in the front of a store. It seems to me like the kid would have been in more danger out in the elements on that bad weather day than locked in the car.

[Axxon]

and I can't imagine anyone breaking into a locked car in the front of a store.

You've clearly never worked security. Oh, and inclement weather helps dampen sounds and restricts visibility which help the crooks pull heists like this.

[BrianD]

You've clearly never worked security. Oh, and inclement weather helps dampen sounds and restricts visibility which help the crooks pull heists like this.

I haven't, but come on...people are going to break into a locked car at the curb in front of the store, under the lights, with the hazard lights on and a child in a car seat? That sounds like about the worst option for a car to steal. There is a whole parking lot full of truly unattended cars that aren't in the general sight-line of everyone walking to and from the store.

[Shepp]

It appears to me that there is more to this story than is reported in this article. I'm sure that the mothers story has been carefully crafted to put the most favorable spin on her actions and the least favorable on the officer. I'm also sure her story has been reviewed by a lawyer, or two, to make sure that nothing is said that may be interpreted as guilt.

You will also never see an interview of this officer. Its almost a universal rule that officers are not allowed to give interviews about incidents they are involved. Part of this is to protect the integrity of an investigation and the other part is that the administration is afraid that an officer will say something they don't like. I think the chief of that department did a decent job of sticking up for his officer. However, the bottom line is that the chief wasn't there and will never be able to say what was happening from the officer's perspective.

From my experience, I have written several tickets to people who have left their children unattended in cars. It would typically start when I oberved the child alone. I would then look around and see if I would idedntify the guardian. If I couldn't find anyone who was a guardian. I would wait around until the guardian showed up. If it took more than a minute or two for the guardian to arrive, they got a ticket. My thinkning was that if they didn't notice a police officer stading at their vehicle where their child was and not come out right away to find out what was wrong. They most have not been paying that close of attention.

Having said all of that. My impression is that mom probably would have just gotten a ticket for leaving the child in the car. She probably got arrested for the obstruction, when she refused to cooperate with the officer by giving basic information like names and such.