PING: Seattle Sonics D

[DeToxRox]

You just gave up 168 points in regulation to the Nuggets .. WTF?

[DaddyTorgo]

no way!

[sooner333]

Wow...can't wait till they get here!

[SackAttack]

NBA record, y'all.

And not the good kind.

[DeToxRox]

Eight Nuggets in double figures, but Melo lead the way with only 26. Talk about balance.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, apparently Durants arms are too much weight for him to keep in the air to contest shots

[Atocep]

Dola, apparently Durants arms are too much weight for him to keep in the air to contest shots

He's played a lot better on the offensive end lately, but he still offers absolutely nothing in terms of rebounding, passing, or defense.

[SnowMan]

*Oklahoma City Sonics


You can have em.

[korme]

Camby with the tri-dub!

[Brian Swartz]

Actually really great D by Seattle here. Every team knows that to beat Denver, you want to make players other than AI and Melo score. Well, they held those guys below their season average! :).

[Oilers9911]

The Nuggets put up 79 on the Raptors in the first half the other night and 137 overall. Now I don't feel quite so bad about that. Wow.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, but 168?!? That's crazy. Just saw the "highlights" on Sportscenter

SI

[Crim]

Yeah, but 168?!? That's crazy. Just saw the "highlights" on Sportscenter

SI

They're replaying the whole game on SportsCenter?

[stevew]

Durant is not very impressive to me thus far. He'll have to make massive defensive strides if he doesn't want to max out as a slightly better Jamal Crawford.

[rkmsuf]

what do you expect with a roster comprised of 80% D-league type players

[TroyF]

Durant is not very impressive to me thus far. He'll have to make massive defensive strides if he doesn't want to max out as a slightly better Jamal Crawford.


Durant is pretty much what I thought he'd be. . . his rookie year. He's a kid. When he came out, I said his first year numbers would resemble Carmelo Anthony's rookie numbers. Melo was better in virtually every stat, but it's still fairly close. Points, shooting percentage, etc.

Durant needs to put on a few pounds to be able to take the beating he gets. I think he's going to be fine at the end of the day. Guys like Lebron are the exception. Kobe, TMac, and other SG/SF have a tough time adjusting to the game the first couple of years. It's usually year three when they "break out".

As for the Nuggets, everything about them is sickening. When they play unselfish basketball on offense, they can beat any team in this league. When they don't, they struggle to beat anyone. The amazing thing about them is that everyone thinks their defense is the real problem. It isn't. Per 100 possessions Denver ranks 5th in the league in defense. They rank 11th in offense.

They simply play at a fast pace, which means more points for the other team. The real problem in 95% of all Nuggets losses is the offense. They start playing stupid. AI starts hogging the ball. Then Melo takes a couple of bad shots. Then before you know it Camby is standing at the top of the key jacking up goofy ass jumpers that have no prayer of going in. They stop doing the things they need to do. . . like getting the ball to Melo in the post, setting solid screens for AI, making the extra pass to get the wide open 18 footer instead of the contested 10 footer.

That said, with all of the injuries, they are having an amazing year. A healthy Nene all season and we'd be three or four games better and in the mix of teams fighting for the #1 seed. As it is, they are 40-26 and they finish March with 8 games that will end up defining their season. @Detroit, @NJ, @Philly, @Toronto, @Memphis, Dallas, Golden State and @ Phoenix.

They play like they have the last three games? They go 6-2 in that stretch and are in the playoffs. They play like morons? They'll go 3-5 and their season will be over.

[molson]

They must have let Doug Moe coach for a night.

[dawgfan]

Sucks thinking about how Seattle NBA fans have to suffer through the growing pains of this group, and we won't be able to savor the rewards once Durant and Green mature and the 6 first rounders in the next 3 years are worked in.

I'm pretty sure Seattle will get another NBA team, and they may be able to retain the Sonics name, but chances are we'll get a franchise in worse shape (Memphis?) and have to suffer through more growing pains as that team gets rebuilt.

[ThunderingHERD]

Kevin Durant is Rashard Lewis, if Rashard Lewis couldn't shoot and turned the ball over a lot.

[TroyF]

Kevin Durant is Rashard Lewis, if Rashard Lewis couldn't shoot and turned the ball over a lot.

It's the age thing. Durant is a far better playerr than Lewis is. It's simply age. He's a 19 year old kid. Rashard Lewis played in 20 garbage time games at the age of 19. He shot 36% in those games. He played in all 82 games at the age of 20 and shot better, but still wasn't what we see today. (he shot about 33% from three point land)


Durant is doing what 19 year old rookies do. He's struggling with his shot. He retreats to outside shots when things aren't going his way. (because he can always get the outside shot vs. having to make a move and get inside)

I think he'll be a little better next year, but he'll still be a year away. I think he blows up in year 3.

FWIW he's averaging 21 points and shooting 52% from the floor in March. Not bad for a teenager.

[Huckleberry]

Rates and raw numbers per 30 minutes at age 19:


Year Team FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB AST SHO BLK TO PF PTS
Lewis 98-99 SEA 0.365 0.167 0.571 2.69 2.48 5.17 0.83 10.76 0.21 4.14 3.93 9.72
Durant 07-08 SEA 0.414 0.280 0.873 0.74 2.92 3.66 2.01 14.94 0.88 2.98 1.38 17.53

Yea stats. They show nothing because Lewis played so little and Durant plays so much. Just thought it was interesting.

[ThunderingHERD]

Lewis took a grand total of 52 shots that year. That's like a quarter or something for Durant.

[stevew]

you texas people are funny.

[TroyF]

Lewis took a grand total of 52 shots that year. That's like a quarter or something for Durant.

That's actually my point. Durant is getting PT at the age of 19. Most 19 year olds don't play a lot of minutes at that age. And those that do, usually struggle. Lebron was great. Carmelo was very good. Most other 19 year olds don't even see the court.

The ones who do usually have pretty mediocre statistics and games.

Durant is averaging about 20 points a game and he really isn't quite ready for this league yet. I think the kid'll be fine. We'll see as time goes on.

[Huckleberry]

Lewis took a grand total of 52 shots that year. That's like a quarter or something for Durant.

Did you not read the sentence after the stats? It would probably help you interpret the post. It's just a suggestion, though, this whole "read the whole post before responding" theory that I have. You're free to post without reading first.

you texas people are funny.

Is that supposed to mean something? I have stated previously on this board that Durant has a ton of work to do and that he is not a very productive player right now. The only defense of Durant I've ever made here is that he's young. I posted this list of college freshmen plus Durant previously:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 137pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=183 border=0><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; WIDTH: 81pt; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" width=108 height=20>Davon Jefferson</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; WIDTH: 56pt; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right width=75>11/3/1986</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>OJ Mayo</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>11/5/1987</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Donte Green</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>2/21/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Kyle Singler</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>5/4/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Austin Daye</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>6/5/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>DeAndre Jordan</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>7/21/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Jerryd Bayless</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>8/20/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Kevin Love</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>9/7/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Kevin Durant</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>9/29/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Derrick Rose</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>10/1/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Eric Gordon</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>12/28/1988</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" height=20>Michael Beasley</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #e0dfe3; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0dfe3" align=right>1/9/1989</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

And you compared him to Jamal Crawford, a player that debuted 18 months older than Durant and had a similar first year (lower FG%, REB, better AST,TO).

[ThunderingHERD]

Did you not read the sentence after the stats? It would probably help you interpret the post. It's just a suggestion, though, this whole "read the whole post before responding" theory that I have. You're free to post without reading first.


I did, actually. Do you want to know my favorite part?


Lewis played so little and Durant plays so much

You see, that could be interpreted a number of ways. One could easily interpret that to mean that he played 15 minutes a game for 82 games. Or 10 minutes for 82. Or 5.

All of those interpretations would be very wrong.

Do you understand where my post fits in now, or should I explain this whole "go fuck yourself before responding" theory that I have?

[IMetTrentGreen]

You would have to be pretty stupid to misinterpret that sentence. Come on, dude.

[ThunderingHERD]

You would have to be pretty stupid to misinterpret that sentence. Come on, dude.

So, if you hear someone played "so little" last year, and you think 5 minutes a game, that makes you "pretty stupid"? Thanks for your input.

It's not a matter of misinterpreting--it's an ambiguous sentence. And you have to be pretty stupid (or otherwise a pretty big asshole) to respond like that.

[Schmidty]

Boy. Kevin Durant sure does bring out enormous passion in people!!!!!!!!

[ThunderingHERD]

Oh, and, for the record, I actually think Durant will be a very good pro. He's the same age as Lebron was his rookie year and is putting up comparable numbers.

[larrymcg421]

Oh, and, for the record, I actually think Durant will be a very good pro. He's the same age as Lebron was his rookie year and is putting up comparable numbers.

His scoring is comparable, but his rebounding really isn't and his passing doesn't even approach Lebron's rookie year (2.3 APG to 5.9 APG).

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, if you hear someone played "so little" last year, and you think 5 minutes a game, that makes you "pretty stupid"?

Well, umm ... The lowest mpg among players on pace to appear in 70 games this season is 19.

And among rookies on pace to appear in even 30 games this season only one (Mario West-Atlanta) is averaging 5 mpg. And only 4 out of 30 are averaging less than double digit minutes.

Basically TH, virtually no one averages 5 mpg in today's NBA. Looks like if you're going to play that little most of the time you just don't play period. And I knew that before looking it up even though I pay less attention to the NBA than I pay to college softball.

[ThunderingHERD]

His scoring is comparable, but his rebounding really isn't and his passing doesn't even approach Lebron's rookie year (2.3 APG to 5.9 APG).

I meant shooting-wise, which is the big knock on him right now. As for rebounding, Lebron played more minutes. If you look at rebounds per 48 it's like 5.9 for Durant, 6.7 for Lebron. Obviously Lebron's a much better passer.

[ThunderingHERD]

Well, umm ... The lowest mpg among players on pace to appear in 70 games this season is 19.

And among rookies on pace to appear in even 30 games this season only one (Mario West-Atlanta) is averaging 5 mpg. And only 4 out of 30 are averaging less than double digit minutes.

Basically TH, virtually no one averages 5 mpg in today's NBA. Looks like if you're going to play that little most of the time you just don't play period. And I knew that before looking it up even though I pay less attention to the NBA than I pay to college softball.


I'm not going to argue this. I'm really not. While I certainly don't agree that "so little" is an unambiguous phrase (especially when you present stats scaled up like that), it ultimately doesn't have much to do with anything.

How about an analogy? Lets say you say something like "Granted, the Falcons didn't score very many points last year," and I say "The Falcons scored 250 points (or whatever) last year, that's like a quarter for the Patriots."

Do you think it would be appropriate for you to respond like this:


Did you not read the sentence after the stats? It would probably help you interpret the post. It's just a suggestion, though, this whole "read the whole post before responding" theory that I have. You're free to post without reading first.

?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Do you think it would be appropriate for you to respond like this ...

I saw the sequence in question and frankly, I wondered why you were repeating what he already said (that the stats really didn't mean much).

I might not have used the reply he chose but mostly because that isn't one of my phrases. There's a pretty good chance though that I would have responded with something sharp as well, as I thought you were being a bit prickly yourself (beating on the same point he already acknowledged).

As for the ambiguity thing (which is the only reason this randomly caught my attention in the first place), all I can say is that the interpretation you suggested didn't even cross my mind. My impression, and the numbers that strongly seem to support it, was that it's pretty unusual for anyone to play 5 mpg anymore. Oddly, I just realized that the reason I knew that was from seeing carded players from some tabletop basketball games very recently & noticing the mpg & games played distribution trends on them. If I picked it up from that, I tend to assume that anyone who actually follows the NBA (as you seem to do) would have known it also. {shrug}

[Atocep]

I meant shooting-wise, which is the big knock on him right now. As for rebounding, Lebron played more minutes. If you look at rebounds per 48 it's like 5.9 for Durant, 6.7 for Lebron. Obviously Lebron's a much better passer.

No, the big knock on him is the fact that he does very little other than score. He doesn't rebound, doesn't pass, can't defend (doesn't try most of the time), and struggles to get to the rim a lot of times.

Shooting is his one strength. His shooting percentage is where it is because he takes bad shots on the perimeter and can't get to the basket for easy shots.

He has the talent to be a very good player, but he has a lot more work than Lebron or Carmello did when they came into the league. His game compares very much to Rashard Lewis' right now. He may be more talented at similar stages in their careers, but both are perimeter players that offer very little to their team other than the ability to score.

[st.cronin]

This thread confuses me.

[DeToxRox]

Not quite 168 but Detroit is returning the favor to Denver. They have 131 with 4 minutes left vs the Nuggets.

[Huckleberry]

Rates and raw numbers per 30 minutes at age 19:


Year Team FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB AST SHO BLK TO PF PTS
Lewis 98-99 SEA 0.365 0.167 0.571 2.69 2.48 5.17 0.83 10.76 0.21 4.14 3.93 9.72
Durant 07-08 SEA 0.414 0.280 0.873 0.74 2.92 3.66 2.01 14.94 0.88 2.98 1.38 17.53

Yea stats. They show nothing because Lewis played so little and Durant plays so much. Just thought it was interesting.

Oh noes! It appears that the 19-year-old player may be improving!!!1! ;)

March numbers (adjusted to 30 minutes same as above):


Year Team FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB AST SHO BLK TO PF PTS
Durant 07-08 SEA 0.532 0.300 0.885 0.64 2.69 3.33 1.79 12.18 0.58 2.88 1.60 17.56


I appreciate the thread. I have been invigorated in my Durant fanboy status. In fact, this and the other Durant thread represent the only three times I've actually looked up Durant's stats as I don't really follow the NBA. But I am now a card-carrying member of his fan club!

[Gary Gorski]

You can put me in the crowd that's not that impressed with Durant and that goes back to pre-draft. When the "experts" were talking that there was a legit controversy over who goes 1 I thought that was ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I know he's just a kid and I'm in no way calling him a bust or a bad player - I just think he's nothing but a scorer and doesn't appear to have the desire to be anything but that.

I think the thing I didn't like the most about him is that he doesn't have "it" IMO. I dogged Melo early in his career for showing little interest in anything other than hoisting up shots but he's become a better defender and puts up good numbers in categories outside of PPG (7+ boards, 1.2 steals). The difference is that intangible. Melo won a national championship as a freshman at Syracuse - in fact I picked Syracuse to win it all that year because of him. Similarly I felt Texas would make a run to the elite eight at least last season and they got bounced (badly) in the 2nd round by USC even though Durant put up very nice numbers in that game. I even look at this year and I would take Beasley on my team over Durant. K-State upset a team that some people felt had final four potential in USC. I think Durant will have a long, productive career and probably play in some all-star games and always be among the league leaders in PPG because he will get stronger, his shot selection will improve, he'll get more calls...but I don't know that he'll ever be in the truly elite level of NBA players.

[Subby]

Sucks thinking about how Seattle NBA fans have to suffer through the growing pains of this group, and we won't be able to savor the rewards once Durant and Green mature and the 6 first rounders in the next 3 years are worked in.
I feel really bad for you guys. The front office has something special in the works there but it's too bad you won't be able to enjoy it. At least you get to keep the team name and colors (which are kickass).

[Huckleberry]

I think the thing I didn't like the most about him is that he doesn't have "it" IMO. I dogged Melo early in his career for showing little interest in anything other than hoisting up shots but he's become a better defender and puts up good numbers in categories outside of PPG (7+ boards, 1.2 steals). The difference is that intangible. Melo won a national championship as a freshman at Syracuse - in fact I picked Syracuse to win it all that year because of him. Similarly I felt Texas would make a run to the elite eight at least last season and they got bounced (badly) in the 2nd round by USC even though Durant put up very nice numbers in that game. I even look at this year and I would take Beasley on my team over Durant. K-State upset a team that some people felt had final four potential in USC.

LOLZ!!!1!!

The fact that you thought a team that had 4 freshmen and a sophomore starting was going to outperform its seed and upset a #1 seed isn't Durant's fault!!!

And yet somehow Beasley's tourney performance showed the "it" factor when they got bounced (badly) in the same round!!!

Meh. Can't do it. Teh Fanboi Life is not for me. For the record I think your argument I quoted actually is preposterous mostly because nobody in their right mind would consider the 2007 Texas supporting cast equal to the 2003 supporting cast. And, more importantly, Carmelo Anthony was and is better than Kevin Durant.

[BishopMVP]

Oh noes! It appears that the 19-year-old player may be improving!!!1! ;)

March numbers (adjusted to 30 minutes same as above):


Year Team FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF REB AST SHO BLK TO PF PTS
Durant 07-08 SEA 0.532 0.300 0.885 0.64 2.69 3.33 1.79 12.18 0.58 2.88 1.60 17.56
Every number other than FG% has gone down. I think Durant gets a pass for this season given his age and supporting cast, but quoting those numbers as improvement doesn't really work for me.

[Huckleberry]

Every number other than FG% has gone down. I think Durant gets a pass for this season given his age and supporting cast, but quoting those numbers as improvement doesn't really work for me.

I think you meant other than FG%, 3P%, FT%, TO (well, technically they went down but that's a good thing), and PTS.

[Gary Gorski]

LOLZ!!!1!!

The fact that you thought a team that had 4 freshmen and a sophomore starting was going to outperform its seed and upset a #1 seed isn't Durant's fault!!!

And yet somehow Beasley's tourney performance showed the "it" factor when they got bounced (badly) in the same round!!!

Ah but they had the greatest freshman ever or so everyone raved over and over and over again. I thought it would be tough for them to get past UNC but I thought it was doable and the fact that they didn't get past USC is his fault. Great players don't allow their team to lose games they should not lose in pressure situations. And its not so uncommon for a team with freshmen as their best players to make big runs in the tournament - Ohio State leaned pretty heavily on two (and a half for Cook) freshmen last year and they got to the finals. Again, I'll give them the bonus for a guy like Lewis because I do think experience matters and counts for something but freshmen led teams can succeed. See the 1992 Michigan Fab Five - they were a 6 seed. Yes I would put Webber, Howard and Rose above Durant, Abrams and Augustin but I didn't expect Texas to go to the championship - I thought they could pull off one upset and be in the elite eight - they didn't even make it out of the first weekend.

And yes, K-State upsetting USC and then losing to a good Wisconsin team (I picked them for the final four) shows me more than Durant and his longhorns getting bounced by USC in the same round last season. Texas was supposed to win two games - K-State wasn't supposed to win one and again Beasley is not getting the same level of hype and accolades as Durant did. Durant was the slam dunk player of the year in everyone's mind last season and I don't think that's the case with Beasley this year.

Meh. Can't do it. Teh Fanboi Life is not for me. For the record I think your argument I quoted actually is preposterous mostly because nobody in their right mind would consider the 2007 Texas supporting cast equal to the 2003 supporting cast. And, more importantly, Carmelo Anthony was and is better than Kevin Durant.

Who said they were equal? I didn't think Texas had a championship calibur team last season whereas I did think Syracuse could go all the way. Although I don't know in terms of supporting talent that the teams were THAT far apart. I mean Syracuse had Warrick and McNamara. Texas had Augustin and Abrams. In fact if you add up the PPG of the starting five for each team Texas averaged 70.9 (Durant 25.8, Abrams 15.5, Augustin 14.4) vs Syracuse 65.1 (Melo 22.2, Warrick 14.8, McNamara 13.3). Rebounds work out to 27.2 to 27.8 per game in favor of Syracuse. Syracuse was the better team because of experience but Warrick was a JR, McNamara a SO and of course Melo a FR. Syracuse was a 3 seed, Texas a 4.

But your last statement is what I'm talking about. There was not the hype about Melo that there is/was about Durant. There was hype, and alot of it to be sure, but not on this level. There were no serious questions if Melo should go one - he didn't even go two in the draft. I agree that Anthony is the better player and will be the better player in the end. That's my point - I'm not buying the Durant hype. I think he'll be among the leaders in PPG every season but I don't think he's going to be capable of being "the guy" for a championship calibur franchise.

[Huckleberry]

...the fact that they didn't get past USC is his fault. Great players don't allow their team to lose games they should not lose in pressure situations.

Absurd. Pinning the blame on a single player for a team's loss is absolutely mind-numbingly naive in almost every case. And this is one of them. They got beat by almost 20 and Durant's teammates shot 13-for-40.

Who said they were equal? I didn't think Texas had a championship calibur team last season whereas I did think Syracuse could go all the way. Although I don't know in terms of supporting talent that the teams were THAT far apart. I mean Syracuse had Warrick and McNamara. Texas had Augustin and Abrams. In fact if you add up the PPG of the starting five for each team Texas averaged 70.9 (Durant 25.8, Abrams 15.5, Augustin 14.4) vs Syracuse 65.1 (Melo 22.2, Warrick 14.8, McNamara 13.3). Rebounds work out to 27.2 to 27.8 per game in favor of Syracuse. Syracuse was the better team because of experience but Warrick was a JR, McNamara a SO and of course Melo a FR. Syracuse was a 3 seed, Texas a 4.

Those stats mean nothing. Raw totals of the starting five without numbers on the pace each team played, etc. are useless. Not to mention the Syracuse defense in that tournament out of their zone compared to the Texas defense last year (and not just Durant was a problem on defense - it says a lot when Durant is your second best defender in your starting five).

But your last statement is what I'm talking about. There was not the hype about Melo that there is/was about Durant. There was hype, and alot of it to be sure, but not on this level. There were no serious questions if Melo should go one - he didn't even go two in the draft. I agree that Anthony is the better player and will be the better player in the end. That's my point - I'm not buying the Durant hype. I think he'll be among the leaders in PPG every season but I don't think he's going to be capable of being "the guy" for a championship calibur franchise.

More silliness. There was plenty of hype about Carmelo Anthony, and deservedly so. He came out the same year as Lebron James, so of course he wasn't the biggest star in that draft during the buildup. If Durant had come out that year, he wouldn't have been hyped as much either.

[Gary Gorski]

Absurd. Pinning the blame on a single player for a team's loss is absolutely mind-numbingly naive in almost every case. And this is one of them. They got beat by almost 20 and Durant's teammates shot 13-for-40.

Durant shot 11/24 but only 2/9 from 3 point land and the fact that his teammates shot poorly IS his fault - at least partially. No he wasn't the one letting go of the ball but how many times did Texas' offense become simply Durant and four guys watching him? He was gifted enough to create his own shot or shoot over people from the outside but he couldn't help his teammates offensively either by passing (1 assist in 40 minutes that game) or by being part of an actual offense. Durant wasn't (and still isn't) a threat to do anything other than shoot the ball when he got it. I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken 24 shots - a guy that talented at scoring should shoot and shoot often but when it gets to the point where everyone is just standing around watching him do it he's partially to blame for it. But truly great players make everyone around them better (on both ends of the floor) and Durant isn't capable of that - at least not yet and I'm not sure that he will be. No one guy can beat five no matter how good he is but if that one guy is a "great" player he somehow wills his team to victory - maybe not every time even but it happens and when the pressure was on Durant was 0/2 in doing that last year (NCAA tournament and Big 12 tournament final). He can score all the points in the world but there's that unmeasurable whatever you want to call it that some players have and others don't. Durant is a great scorer - but I don't think that makes him a great player. He's terrible on the defensive end and his numbers in the NBA prove that. The net points per 100 possessions when he is on the court this year is -12.0 compared to -2.9 when he's off the court and he's already scoring almost 20 PPG - how much better is realistically going to get there? But that all ties into my point - Durant shouldn't be blamed for something like Texas losing to USC because Durant isn't good enough to be that guy. The player Durant is hyped to be would deserve the blame because a player like that wouldn't have allowed his team to lose that game. Durant is capable of being a great scorer and he fills that role very well - but he's a cog in the wheel, not the heart of any team that's going to be a championship contender.


More silliness. There was plenty of hype about Carmelo Anthony, and deservedly so. He came out the same year as Lebron James, so of course he wasn't the biggest star in that draft during the buildup. If Durant had come out that year, he wouldn't have been hyped as much either.

Um I said "There was hype, and alot of it to be sure, but not on this level" - I never said Melo wasn't hyped. Of course he was but come on - you think that the hype and buzz about Durant DURING and after the season was on the same level as for Melo? Melo wasn't even named the player of the year and that had nothing to do with LeBron. Durant came out during the year where another high school uber-star turned college star Greg Oden was playing and the Oden hype machine had been in the works way back into high school just as the LeBron one was and yet people were still honestly debating whether or not Durant should be #1. You still have people today who will say they would have taken Durant in front of Oden whereas nobody then or now would have taken Melo in front of LBJ.

[BishopMVP]

I think you meant other than FG%, 3P%, FT%, TO (well, technically they went down but that's a good thing), and PTS.3P%/FT%/TO/PTS are all statistically insignificant. .300 vs. .280 in 3's, .885 vs. .873 in FT's, 2.98 vs. 2.88 in TO's and 17.53 vs. 17.56 in Points. That's what, an extra 3, 2 FT's and 1 less turnover in a month? Meanwhile, his rebounding, which is already atrocious at 3.66 dropped to 3.33, assists went from 2.01 to 1.78 and blocks went from .88 to .58. He's also taking 2.68 less shots per 30 min. Now, maybe his shot selection has improved drastically, which would be good, but every category other than 2-pt FG's has stayed static or gotten worse.

Maybe he's just tired and worn down, but his effort stats should not be this low. .58 blocks and 3.33 rebounds? Without looking at stats, there are probably dozens of guards 6'4 and below who average more rebounds.

[Groundhog]

I don't care what percentage Durant shoots. What I am more interested in is how bad he looks at every other aspect of the game.

[cartman]

Well, the Seattle D still had problems with Denver, but this time their offense decided to show up. They gave up 147 to the Nuggets, but were able to put up 151 of their own to win in double OT.

[MikeVic]

And what does that say about the Nuggets. That was pretty bad.

Although Durant had two clutch 3s, which is nice.

[cartman]

Yeah, Durant and Green put on a show, giving a glimpse into what the future holds for this team once they get some more pieces around them.

[Huckleberry]

Per 36 minutes

Player Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Anthony 2003-04 19 DEN NBA 82 82 2995 7.5 17.6 .426 0.8 2.6 .322 4.9 6.3 .777 2.2 3.8 6.0 2.7 1.2 0.5 3.0 2.7 20.7
Bryant 1997-98 19 LAL NBA 79 1 2056 6.8 16.0 .428 1.3 3.9 .341 6.4 8.0 .794 1.4 2.9 4.2 3.5 1.3 0.7 2.7 3.2 21.4
Durant 2007-08 19 SEA NBA 80 80 2768 7.6 17.8 .430 0.8 2.7 .288 5.1 5.8 .873 0.9 3.6 4.5 2.5 1.0 1.0 3.0 1.6 21.1
James 2003-04 19 CLE NBA 79 79 3122 7.2 17.2 .417 0.7 2.5 .290 4.0 5.3 .754 1.1 3.8 5.0 5.4 1.5 0.7 3.1 1.7 19.1

Anthony, Durant, James were rookies. Bryant was in his second season.

[Subby]

On a recent Chad Ford podcast he and Hollinger were talking about how Durant was coming around and torn it up over the last month or so...

[path12]

Yeah, Durant and Green put on a show, giving a glimpse into what the future holds for this team once they get some more pieces around them.

Imagine if they manage to snag Rose in the draft.

On second thought, I don't want to imagine that if they end up leaving. :(