$15,000 or 9,000 Gallons of Gas?

[Lorena]

Original story: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i7C8efoNbeoqhHhn_IzyqVMRzuTwD8VT91KO0

Poll forthcoming
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W.Va. Casino to Give Away Tanker of Gas 20 hours ago

WHEELING, W.Va. (AP) — A free tank of gas? That's nothing. A West Virginia casino is giving away a tanker of fuel. Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack spokeswoman Kim Florence said one lucky person will win about 9,000 gallons of gas or $15,000 in cash on April 18.

And with the price of gasoline at a record $3.41 a gallon in the Mountain State, the petrol could be worth almost $31,000.

You could really go places with that — like around the world nearly eight times if your car averages 22 miles per gallon.

That's a lot of trips to the grocery store.

Players can earn entries for the grand prize drawing at the track this Friday and next.

And don't worry about making parking arrangements for the tanker. Florence says the winner won't be taking one home. He or she will be receiving gift cards.

[MikeVic]

I think people would steal your gas.

[Lorena]

That money will put a nice dent on our credit cards... gas be damned.

[Lorena]

I think people would steal your gas.

If they steal your gift cards, then yes.

[Mustang]

Gas.

I'd assume the gift cards would expire in a year so, I'd keep a years worth of gas (1,000 gals) and then sell the gift cards off at a discount.

I figure I'd still be on the better end of the deal as long as gas doesn't drop below $1.67 a gallon

[MikeVic]

Oops didn't see the gift card thing. Would the gift cards say like... good for 100 gallons?

[Lathum]

the cash is a no brainer.

In the time it would take you to use 9000 gallons of gas you cold invest the cash and make alot more moneey.

[Danny]

The cash, easy

[oliegirl]

Definitely the cash, no question.

[stevew]

Take gas. Sell to 3rd party gas station at 3 bucks per gallon. Profit.

[rkmsuf]

yeah but what if it's super unleaded

[Cringer]

Gas. And if I want to convert some of it to cash I just sell some gift cards.

[Marc Vaughan]

I'd take the Gas - use the publicity to sell the cards locally at around $2.50/gallon people will snap them up and you'd be cash up within a week I'd expect.

($22.5k vs $15k - personally I'd happily do a weeks work for $7.5k myself ;) )

[Fidatelo]

I'd take the gas. It's value will continue to rise, while the dollar will continue to drop. It is also a good hedge against inflation.

Now, if the cards expire, I might reconsider. But first I'd look into the legality of expriring gift cards.

[Synovia]

Now, if the cards expire, I might reconsider. But first I'd look into the legality of expriring gift cards.

Depends on the state. In MA, its illegal for them to expire.


The question is, do they give you some sort of wierd giftcard for 15K gallons, or giftcards for the current value of 15K gallons (more likely).

[MikeVic]

The question is, do they give you some sort of wierd giftcard for 15K gallons, or giftcards for the current value of 15K gallons (more likely).

That was my question above as well. I don't buy gas gift cards, but I'd imagine it would be dollar amounts, not gallon amounts.

[rkmsuf]

Now does the gift card include the free car washes? That could really change the analysis.

[path12]

Give me the money, I'll pay off my debts and won't care nearly as much about the price of gas.

[MikeVic]

Can you gain points or air miles or whatever too?

[Sublime 2]

Give me the money, I'll pay off my debts and won't care nearly as much about the price of gas.

No Diggity

[sabotai]

Considering the size of the prize, what taxes would be applied? The cash one is easy, any typical tax you'd pay on getting $15k, but what, if any, taxes apply to getting 9,000 gallons worth of gas in gift cards?

[SackAttack]

Depends on the state. In MA, its illegal for them to expire.


The question is, do they give you some sort of wierd giftcard for 15K gallons, or giftcards for the current value of 15K gallons (more likely).

Ditto California, but with one little quirk.

A gift card used in a state in which it is legal for gift cards to expire, and then taken to California with a balance remaining, may still expire.

A gift card purchased in California which stays, unused, in California, may not expire. It's weird.

[albionmoonlight]

Considering the size of the prize, what taxes would be applied? The cash one is easy, any typical tax you'd pay on getting $15k, but what, if any, taxes apply to getting 9,000 gallons worth of gas in gift cards?

It still would not be hard to compute the tax. Either the cards have a cash value that you would use. Or, if the cards are for gallons, then you could just compute gallons X average price of a gallon in the area on the day of the gift.

[QuikSand]

Okay, if we make some reasonable assumptions here for right now:

Value of gallon of gas right now = $3.33
Tax rate paid = 40%

Then, we come up with this:

$15,000 cash prize triggers $6,000 in taxes, for a net of $9,000

9,000 gallons = $30,000, triggering $12,000 in taxes

So, you'd need to be able to unload the gasoline for a total of $21,000 for this to work out -- that's around $2.33 per gallon. I have no idea how much of your time and effort might be involved, but assuming that's relatively trivial (if you spend 50 hours, you're maybe in for an additional "cost" of a thousand bucks or so in practical terms) it seems like taking the gas is by far the better way to go here.

I, too, am puzzled by the whole "gift card" idea, but I'm assuming that would actually make the transferability easier. I'd think you could get 80-90 cents on the dollar for working gift cards to a widespread gas station.

[Raiders Army]

Show me the money!

[Synovia]

If they were some sort of special gallons gift card, or they somehow managed to count gallons instead of giving you current value of 9K gallons, would you be forced to pay capital gains or anything when gas appreciates?

[sabotai]

So, you'd need to be able to unload the gasoline for a total of $21,000 for this to work out -- that's around $2.33 per gallon. I have no idea how much of your time and effort might be involved, but assuming that's relatively trivial (if you spend 50 hours, you're maybe in for an additional "cost" of a thousand bucks or so in practical terms) it seems like taking the gas is by far the better way to go here.

Did you factor in the amount of taxes you'd have to pay on the amount of income you generated from selling off the gift cards? (I would assume that you would have to pay taxes on the income you made from selling a product you had, regardless of how you came to own said product. But that's just an assumption, I don't know much about tax laws.)

[JeeberD]

Gas, easily. As prices keep rising, it would be nice to have the stuff for free...

[JeeberD]

That money will put a nice dent on our credit cards... gas be damned.


Only a dent? :eek:

[EagleFan]

Cash. Aren't taxes usually due up front on these things? That puts you in a big hole immediately with the gas.

[albionmoonlight]

Did you factor in the amount of taxes you'd have to pay on the amount of income you generated from selling off the gift cards? (I would assume that you would have to pay taxes on the income you made from selling a product you had, regardless of how you came to own said product. But that's just an assumption, I don't know much about tax laws.)

No. Sort of. You only get taxed on the profit that you make when you sell something.

So, let's say that you get $10,000 worth of gas cards. You would then have to pay tax on $10,000. But, the cards would then have what is known as $10,000 worth of "basis" in them. That means that when you sell the cards, your first $10,000 of receipts is tax free. So, if gas goes up a bit and you sell the cards for $10,500, then you would have to pay tax on the $500. And, if you end up selling it for less, then you have a loss that you can offset against other gains, but that gets a bit more technical.

Really, though, one of the best ways to value something is to see what it sells for in an arms-length transaction. Let's say that you get 9,000 gallons worth of gas. And within a week or so you sell the cards to a local delivery service for $X dollars. Assuming that the sale was legit (i.e. not to your brother for a below market rate or something), you can be pretty safe in just paying taxes on $X.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--In a lot of cases, the sale price is the only way to get a fair value of something. Most of us know what 9,000 gallons of gas is worth. A lot of times, property is something like "a 50 year old diamond ring"--which has a much more subjective value.

[sabotai]

No. Sort of. You only get taxed on the profit that you make when you sell something.

Ah, got it.

[lighthousekeeper]

i'll go with whatever quicksand decides.

[Danny]

Isn't it illegal in some place to sell gift cards?

[Lorena]

Only a dent? :eek:

$15,000 would take care of our credit card debt, but once taxes are taken out, then yes, it'll leave a nice dent.

[Raiders Army]

i'll go with whatever quicksand decides.

sheep :D

[lynchjm24]

sheep :D

The majority who picked cash would do well to listen to him.

[sabotai]

The majority who picked cash would do well to listen to him.

Yeah, but I'm EXTREMELY lazy, so I wouldn't even do the hour of work to sell off the cards.

[lynchjm24]

Yeah, but I'm EXTREMELY lazy, so I wouldn't even do the hour of work to sell off the cards.

You would finish up without doing anything. If you just keep the gas you'll do better. If you can cover the taxes year one you'd have to make like a very high yield on the investment to do better with the cash.

If we give the cash the benefit of the doubt and say that a household uses 2000 gallons a year, figure it takes you 4 years to use the gas (this allows for the inevitable price increases).

If you invest 9,000 and somehow miraculously make 15% annually with interest credited monthly you'd make 7,338. Call it 5k after taxes.

If you take the gas you've made 18k.

Gas 18k > cash 14k. And that is if you are lucky beyond the realm of realistic outcomes in the current economy.

A more likely scenario is you make 6% - which is 2,900. Call it 2,200 after tax.

Do you really have to think about 18k (gas) versus 11,200 (cash)?

Now if you are paying 20%+ interest on the credit cards or can't put together the money for the taxes the first year then I guess you've got a tougher decision. I think even those scenarios are going to work out for the gas because it's early enough in the year to manipulate your taxes and taking the money that you no longer spend on gas and paying the principal down on the credit cards is still going to pay in the long run.

[MizzouRah]

My first thought is the money, but I think I would take the gas.

[lynchjm24]

(if you spend 50 hours, you're maybe in for an additional "cost" of a thousand bucks or so in practical terms)

You'd be crazy to take the cash after 2 more seconds of thought. You could move 31k worth of gas to a corporation with a motor fleet for 26-27k in almost no time.

Even if we call it 25k, you've got 25-12 = 13k instead of 9k.

[sabotai]

Do you really have to think about 18k (gas) versus 11,200 (cash)?

If we are talking about using the cards versus taking the cash, yes. I don't use much gas. It would take me nearly 40 years to go through 9000 gallons of gas. I fill up my car, 10 gallon gas tank, twice a month, if that. If I use 240 gallons a year (and I'm still paying around $3.10 a gallon for gas in NJ, so that's a $744 a year expense), that's 37.5 years of free gas.

But what if I move to the city and use public transportation? What if I move to another country? What if prices come down? What if, in 10-15 years, we start making a major shift way from oil and I don't need gasoline anymore. What if I die in 10 years?

And I have around $8k in student loan and credit card debt right now.

So yeah, if we're talking about taking (and keeping) the gas cards vesus taking the cash, I'm taking the cash. I would rather get rid of an $8k debt immediately rather than eliminate a $744 a year expense.

If we start talking about taking and selling the gift cards, there's a lot of questions that the article doesn't answer. For one, would doing that be legal? Would it be violating a condition of the award? How do you get the gift cards? Do you get them all at once or over a long period of time in installments (example: 200 gallons worth of gift cards a year for 45 years)? Are they restricted for use in West Virginia for some reason? Are they restricted to a specific gas station chain? Is the use of them restricted in any other way? I could probably think of 100 more questions that would nee to be answered before you can really determine the worth of the gift cards this casino/racetrack is offering. None of the articles I can find on this story go into any more detail than the one above.

[Izulde]

The money.

I don't drive and never will, so it's an easy one.

[Anthony]

cash trumps all. you always take the cash.

what are you gonna do 10 years from now when we have an alternate source of fuel that is cheaper and you're stuck with a bunch of gift cards for what would be a more costly form of fuel?

[JeeberD]

It would still be free, though...

[BYU 14]

The money.

I don't drive and never will, so it's an easy one.

Just curious, if true why?

[lynchjm24]

If we are talking about using the cards versus taking the cash, yes. I don't use much gas. It would take me nearly 40 years to go through 9000 gallons of gas. I fill up my car, 10 gallon gas tank, twice a month, if that. If I use 240 gallons a year (and I'm still paying around $3.10 a gallon for gas in NJ, so that's a $744 a year expense), that's 37.5 years of free gas.


If you only use 240 gallons of gas you are quite a special case.

Clearly the assumption has to be that it's 9000 gallons upfront for this exercise and that it's legal to sell them (I can't see a situation why it wouldn't be legal to sell them).

[lynchjm24]

cash trumps all. you always take the cash.


Some good logic there. And I think people give me stupid answers in job interviews when I ask them financial questions....

[Anthony]

It would still be free, though...

yeah, but when everyone is driving their fuel efficient cars that run on [insert prevailing alternate source of fuel here] and you still have your gas guzzler that runs on gas...

some silly people in this thread think you can simply walk up to any ole corporation and broker deals to exchange fuel/gift cards for cash. as if you stocked up on gas when it was under $3 a couple years ago and can sell your cheap gas for a profit. who here honestly thinks they can simply call up a corporation and say "hey, i'll sell you some gas for cheap"? to me, time is money. the amount of time it would take to actually sell the gift card is worth more than the profit one could make. time is a more valuable resource than fuel. take the cash.

that's like saying you'd rather someone give you a house worth $500K in this horrible housing market rather than someone give you $350K cash. if you take the house (providing you don't already own one) then you don't have any business discussing financial hypothetcial questions. and i'm looking at lynchjim when i say this.

[Fidatelo]

Selling all your gas cards to some corporation isn't the only option. You could sell those gas cards on ebay for very little effort and make a massive profit.

[Fidatelo]

Dola

I'd take the house every time. The housing market will rise over time and you won't be able to keep pace with your cash.

[st.cronin]

How is this even a question? If, instead of gas, the choice was:

$15,000 or $27,000 worth of gold

which would you take?

[Lorena]

See, it really depends what kind of vehicles people drive, how much they spend on gas, how much debt (if any), etc. We have 2 small cars and spend less than $180 of gas a month and have some debt, so in my eyes, I'd much rather get rid of the nagging debt than get gift cards we probably can't sell.

[st.cronin]

See, it really depends what kind of vehicles people drive, how much they spend on gas, how much debt (if any), etc. We have 2 small cars and spend less than $180 of gas a month and have some debt, so in my eyes, I'd much rather get rid of the nagging debt than get gift cards we probably can't sell.

Even if you can't sell the gift cards, putting an extra $180 to your credit cards instead of on gas each month, my guess is you come out ahead. But, you likely can sell the gift cards - craigslist, ebay, etc.

[Izulde]

Just curious, if true why?

I hate driving. I mean, I was pretty good at it whenever I've had my temps, except for a tendency to go too slow at times, but I despised it.

My mind drifts really easily and the having to concentrate and be aware of your surroundings all the time is difficult for me to do.

Add in the rising prices for gas and the costs for car insurance, purchasing and maintaining a car and the idiocy of drivers on the road I see every day and it just gets to be like, thanks, but no thanks.

So I take buses, subways, ask friends for rides and pay them some gas money, or, in most cases, simply walk wherever I'm going.

In the long run, I save a lot of money that way that can be used for other things, like, perhaps ironically, traveling.

[Anthony]

Dola

I'd take the house every time. The housing market will rise over time and you won't be able to keep pace with your cash.

so you have the money to pay property taxes until the house sells? this is such a great market for sellers, i'm sure you'd be able to flip that house very quickly. and i'm sure capital gains tax and potentially having to pay closing costs to seal the deal woudn't eat into your profits either.

i was using my sarcastic font right there, btw.

[Fidatelo]

Why would you flip it right away? Why not hold it as an asset for years? Have you heard of renters? Those guys tend to cover a lot of expenses for smart property owners.

Good grief, the short-sightedness of some of the people on here is mind-boggling.

[Anthony]

Why would you flip it right away? Why not hold it as an asset for years? Have you heard of renters? Those guys tend to cover a lot of expenses for smart property owners.

Good grief, the short-sightedness of some of the people on here is mind-boggling.

so instead of getting $350K guaranteed cash, you're going to deal with renters, having to repeatedly find renters when your old ones move out, having to take renters to court if they fail to pay rent, pay money out of your own pocket for repairs (no one said you'd be getting a new house worth $500K), and wait the 15 years it would take to get the equivalent of $350K (if you charge $2K a month in rent). whereas you can take that $350K, put it in an investment and start raking in the dividends while sitting on your fat ass doing nothing.

investment properties are great, but if i can bypass that nonsense and just get broken off cash - dolla dolla bills yo - then i'm declining the nonsense that comes with renting a property and getting guaranteed money.

this is what happens when people fail to look at all the angles. this is why this country is in the housing crisis its in, because people think they're smart. i know Fidatello is from Canada, it's comforting to know that stupidity is not a concept exclusive to americans.

[Mustang]

Bottom line, if I'm offered cash and I'm offered some commodity that I can legally sell for twice the value of the cash in a relatively short period of time, I'm going with the commodity.

Granted, you can find exceptions. I mean, if I'm offered $30K in M&Ms or $15K in cash, the level of effort to unload $30K in M&Ms might not be worth the effort and if someone says a $30K picasso painting or $15K in cash well, you have to find someone to be willing to pay that.

I think most people are 'voting' on this based on that you have to keep and use $15K or 9000 gallons of gas (and they couldn't sell it). If that is the case, yes, I'm going with $15K because it would take 8-10 years for me to personally burn through that much gas.

I really hope there is no one disputing that the value of 9000 gallons of gas >>> $15K

[Fidatelo]

I have seen the error of my ways. Thank you HA for opening my eyes to the benefits of lazy cash.

[Anthony]

cash
rulz
everything
around
me

c.r.e.a.m. - get the money.

dolla dolla bill yo.

[sabotai]

9000 gallons of gas >>> $15K

Ture, but you aren't being given gallons of gas, you're are being given gift certificates, of which we know none of the details. Gift certificates, the ones you win not the ones you buy, always come with strings attached. People can argue hypotheticals all they want, but for this specific prize, if I'm being offered gift cards as a reward without being given any details vs. half their value in cash, I'm taking the cash until I know the specifics of those gift cards. The casino has not given out details for these gift certificates for a reason.

[Mustang]

The casino has not given out details for these gift certificates for a reason.


Probably to save the world from bickering on message boards about what is the better deal.

And if there were absolutely no strings attached to the gift cards. Here, he is a gift card good for 9,000 gallons of gas at any price, would you still take the cash? (I'm still getting the impression that people here still would take the cash)

[Anthony]

I think most people are 'voting' on this based on that you have to keep and use $15K or 9000 gallons of gas (and they couldn't sell it). If that is the case, yes, I'm going with $15K because it would take 8-10 years for me to personally burn through that much gas.

I really hope there is no one disputing that the value of 9000 gallons of gas >>> $15K

this is the case for me - if i have to keep either then i'm going for the cash. who knows what the status of gas would be 10 years from now. that's like if it was the year 1995 someone saying they'd prefer to have gift cards that could be redeemed for hundreds of CRT tvs and meanwhile 10 years later everyone is buying plasma tvs.

i still would wind up taking the money probably if selling the gift cards was an option. go on ebay and tell me how many entries you see for gas gift cards. my experience with craigslist is a lot of people are there to waste time. to have to repeatedly sell gift cards and hope each and every separate transaction goes off smoothly is not worth it to me. no one is gonna buy all 9K worth of gift cards from you. you're gonna have to deal with many separate bunches of people. i couldn't even sell bootleg copies of Adobe CS3 - which retails for over $700 - for $125. now that's a deal and i still can't find legit buyers.

[Anthony]

Ture, but you aren't being given gallons of gas, you're are being given gift certificates, of which we know none of the details. Gift certificates, the ones you win not the ones you buy, always come with strings attached. People can argue hypotheticals all they want, but for this specific prize, if I'm being offered gift cards as a reward without being given any details vs. half their value in cash, I'm taking the cash until I know the specifics of those gift cards. The casino has not given out details for these gift certificates for a reason.

ok, thank you. at least one person gets it.

thank you sab.

[st.cronin]

Do you have a book of stamps? I'll give you a dollar for it.

[MikeVic]

what better trout for life or money.

[Kodos]

If you could harness the swimming power of the trout into an engine, you might have something. "This baby's got 9,000 trouts under the hood!"

[lynchjm24]

Hi I'm Hell Atlantic.

Give me the choice between 4 Super Bowl tickets and $50.

I will take $50 because 'CASH IS KING'.


For the sake of this argument we have to assume that there are no strings on the gift cards. Obviously if there is other information we don't have we can't truly measure the deal.


To take the cash over the gas is so stupid on so many levels it is painful.

If you don't think you can find a business owner who would give you 25k for 31k worth of gas you are out of your mind.

You are talking about 10 years from now. This could not be more ridiculous. No one is going to hold onto the gas for 10 years, it could be sold this weekend. You are probably 100% wrong anyway. Most likely the price of the gasoline will far outpace inflation and 9,000 gallons of gas would be more valuable in 2018 then it is in 2008.


Your housing argument is the stupidest one of all. If a house is worth 500k then that is what you get for it. If you can't sell it for 500k then it isn't worth 500k. It's worth exactly what it can be sold for. If you are talking about appraised value that is something completely different. But I guess I'm the one who shouldn't be discussing hypothetical financial situations.

This gas isn't appraised at 31k. The gas is worth 31k.

The idea that your time is too valuable to sell the gas is laughable. You have thousands of posts about nothing on a message board about imaginary football players in imaginary football leagues.

Go fuck a sandwich.

[Anthony]

Hi I'm Hell Atlantic.

Give me the choice between 4 Super Bowl tickets and $50.

I will take $50 because 'CASH IS KING'.


For the sake of this argument we have to assume that there are no strings on the gift cards. Obviously if there is other information we don't have we can't truly measure the deal.


To take the cash over the gas is so stupid on so many levels it is painful.

If you don't think you can find a business owner who would give you 25k for 31k worth of gas you are out of your mind.

You are talking about 10 years from now. This could not be more ridiculous. No one is going to hold onto the gas for 10 years, it could be sold this weekend. You are probably 100% wrong anyway. Most likely the price of the gasoline will far outpace inflation and 9,000 gallons of gas would be more valuable in 2018 then it is in 2008.


Your housing argument is the stupidest one of all. If a house is worth 500k then that is what you get for it. If you can't sell it for 500k then it isn't worth 500k. It's worth exactly what it can be sold for. If you are talking about appraised value that is something completely different. But I guess I'm the one who shouldn't be discussing hypothetical financial situations.

This gas isn't appraised at 31k. The gas is worth 31k.

The idea that your time is too valuable to sell the gas is laughable. You have thousands of posts about nothing on a message board about imaginary football players in imaginary football leagues.

Go fuck a sandwich.

there are more questions about how exactly the gas will be distributed to you, what strings are attached or whatever. if you like to deal in fantasy transactions (if i can get x amount of people to buy this from me, i can make x amount of money) then that's your problem. money talks. cash is liquid. its a lot easier to unload 4 tickets than it is to find the numerous sellers required who will purchase gift cards/certificates. if that's the case - why don't you invest 15K of your own money into $15k worth of gas at today's current prices, that way when it goes up to $5 next summer you can approach that business owner you mentioned who is interested in buying your gas. if that's the case why don't people do that already? everyone knows the price of gas is going to rise, how come you don't see people buying gas now and selling it in the future when it costs more?

you make it sound like business owners who utilize transportation, like shipping/delivery companies don't already use their own corporate gas cards for perks. i would love to see you walk up to this supposed business man in your above scenario, offer to sell him your gas cards and he goes "why would i buy your gas cards with cash when i can purchase gas with my Exxon Visa corporate card and be entitled to rewards and other incentives?".

this douche lynch is trying to insinuate if he saw someone selling gas for $2 a gallon out of the back of a truck he'd actually buy it sight unseen. or if he walked by an alley and someone said "pssst, you there, wanna buy some cheap gas cards?" lynch would be gung-ho for it. where is this huge market that exists that would purchase discount gas cards sight unseen? you mean to tell me if you saw someone selling discount gas cards in craigslist you would buy them just like that and assume it was legit and not a scam? if that's the case i have some cards in my drawer here i can sell you really cheap that each have a balance of $100 on them that you can use at any gas station you want. i promise it's completely legit.

[Anthony]

random moronic statements.

there are more questions about how exactly the gas will be distributed to you, what strings are attached or whatever. if you like to deal in fantasy transactions (if i can get x amount of people to buy this from me, i can make x amount of money) then that's your problem. money talks. cash is liquid. its a lot easier to unload 4 tickets than it is to find the numerous sellers required who will purchase gift cards/certificates. if that's the case - why don't you invest 15K of your own money into $15k worth of gas at today's current prices, that way when it goes up to $5 next summer you can approach that business owner you mentioned who is interested in buying your gas. if that's the case why don't people do that already? everyone knows the price of gas is going to rise, how come you don't see people buying gas now and selling it in the future when it costs more?

you make it sound like business owners who utilize transportation, like shipping/delivery companies don't already use their own corporate gas cards for perks. i would love to see you walk up to this supposed business man in your above scenario, offer to sell him your gas cards and he goes "why would i buy your gas cards with cash when i can purchase gas with my Exxon Visa corporate card and be entitled to rewards and other incentives?".

this douche lynch is trying to insinuate if he saw someone selling gas for $2 a gallon out of the back of a truck he'd actually buy it sight unseen. or if he walked by an alley and someone said "pssst, you there, wanna buy some cheap gas cards?" lynch would be gung-ho for it. where is this huge market that exists that would purchase discount gas cards sight unseen? you mean to tell me if you saw someone selling discount gas cards in craigslist you would buy them just like that and assume it was legit and not a scam? if that's the case i have some cards in my drawer here i can sell you really cheap that each have a balance of $100 on them that you can use at any gas station you want. i promise it's completely legit.

[Passacaglia]

where is this huge market that exists that would purchase discount gas cards sight unseen?

Right here. (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=gas+card&category0=)

[Passacaglia]

Also, haven't you people seen Reality Bites?!?!

[Anthony]

again, this is why we have this fucking housing crisis, because of thinking like lynch's. people who walk into what they think is a bargain that's too good to be true and fall prey to scams from unscrupulous people. instead of purchasing homes within their means, they walk with the blindsiders on listening to people whispering in their ear that, yes, they can afford a bigger house, yes, they can qualify for a mortgage despite blemishes on their credit report and, yes, they can buy cheap cards that can be used towards gas.

[Anthony]

Right here. (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=gas+card&category0=)

yes, if only you can find 1,000 of the person who bid $76.99 for a $75 gas card (http://cgi.ebay.com/75-BP-GAS-FUEL-GIFT-CARD_W0QQitemZ150233590293QQihZ005QQcategoryZ31411QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), you'd be all set.

[Mustang]

money talks. cash is liquid.

So is gas. :D

[Fidatelo]

again, this is why we have this fucking housing crisis, because of thinking like lynch's. people who walk into what they think is a bargain that's too good to be true and fall prey to scams from unscrupulous people. instead of purchasing homes within their means, they walk with the blindsiders on listening to people whispering in their ear that, yes, they can afford a bigger house, yes, they can qualify for a mortgage despite blemishes on their credit report and, yes, they can buy cheap cards that can be used towards gas.

This is entirely retarded. What does buying a house above your means have anything to do with purchasing a discount gas card? One is a poor financial decision and the other is a good one. Are the people that buy bulk food from Costco contributing to the housing crisis too?

[Daimyo]

Looks like gas cards sell easily for 95-100% of their value on ebay judging by a quick look at completed auctions. If you can get them in $200 increments that would be ~150 auctions. If you get the total processing time down to about 10 minutes/auction that would be 25 hours of work for about $14k pre-tax. Sign me up for that job!

I bet you could even get a service to do all the posting and shipping for like 5% commission ($1500) and only be out a few hours if you're really lazy.

[Horizon]

Why isn't anyone concerned about where the gas station is located?

[Anthony]

Why isn't anyone concerned about where the gas station is located?

i swear, i am willing to wager the casino either has a deal set up with a local gas station or the gas cards are for just one gas brand. there's no way this casino is giving out magical universal gas cards.

so when you're taking a long trip and see you're running low on gas you're gonna have to dip into your own pocket cuz you have an Exxon gas card and the only station for the next20 miles is BP.


if you buy a supposed $75 gas card from ebay and it turns out it only has $35 on it what is your avenue of recourse other than leaving negative reviews? there's still no way to get that $40 you missed out on, right?

[st.cronin]

I bet you could even get a service to do all the posting and shipping for like 5% commission ($1500) and only be out a few hours if you're really lazy.

There is a company like that here in Santa Fe, you drop off your product to be sold on ebay, and then after the auction they call you and you go pick up your check. I think they mostly work with artists, but they could probably flip gas cards.

[cthomer5000]

Gas Rules Everything Around Me

[Passacaglia]

So is gas. :D

You mean gas isn't gas? :)

[Synovia]

if you buy a supposed $75 gas card from ebay and it turns out it only has $35 on it what is your avenue of recourse other than leaving negative reviews? there's still no way to get that $40 you missed out on, right?

Pay with paypal/credit card/etc, and fight the charge. Its clearcut fraud.

[CU Tiger]

There are so many bad arguments here it is pathetic.

-Number 1 I own a bsiness and 8 trucks. I get 5% back on my AmEx card, but you are damn right Id buy 31k in gas from anyone for 15k. We would probably meet at said store and have each card checked or some other security measure, but Id do it in a heartbeat. So you approach some corp. myth is debunked.

-10 years is garbage, our personal fuel bill is over $800/month maybe 5 years.

- you are damn right I will take a house WORTH 500 before I take 350k cash. Id sell the 500k house CHEAP for 450, make 100k extra and be tax sheltered, next.

- rambling about investing 15k for 15k worth of gas is assinine and totally not the point. I would gladly pay you 15k for 31k worth of gas today. (any idea wheen the last major gas price drop was?)

-why dont people do it alreeady? Ummm where the hell are you living? Ever hear of oil futures? thats exactly what that is, people bying tanker trucks full and sitting. Actually I know a local Cstore owner who shut off his pumps and tagged them out of fuel (while they were actually full) two weeks ago because he figured the gas would be worth more 1 week later.

I bet you would takee the hypothetical $100,000 before the magic penny too, right? Thats what you are saying....


Geez...15k liquid vs 31k hard goods....NO BRAINER and thats before we discuss tax implications, which by the way make it more of a no brainer.
yeah, but when everyone is driving their fuel efficient cars that run on [insert prevailing alternate source of fuel here] and you still have your gas guzzler that runs on gas...

some silly people in this thread think you can simply walk up to any ole corporation and broker deals to exchange fuel/gift cards for cash. as if you stocked up on gas when it was under $3 a couple years ago and can sell your cheap gas for a profit. who here honestly thinks they can simply call up a corporation and say "hey, i'll sell you some gas for cheap"? to me, time is money. the amount of time it would take to actually sell the gift card is worth more than the profit one could make. time is a more valuable resource than fuel. take the cash.

that's like saying you'd rather someone give you a house worth $500K in this horrible housing market rather than someone give you $350K cash. if you take the house (providing you don't already own one) then you don't have any business discussing financial hypothetcial questions. and i'm looking at lynchjim when i say this.

there are more questions about how exactly the gas will be distributed to you, what strings are attached or whatever. if you like to deal in fantasy transactions (if i can get x amount of people to buy this from me, i can make x amount of money) then that's your problem. money talks. cash is liquid. its a lot easier to unload 4 tickets than it is to find the numerous sellers required who will purchase gift cards/certificates. if that's the case - why don't you invest 15K of your own money into $15k worth of gas at today's current prices, that way when it goes up to $5 next summer you can approach that business owner you mentioned who is interested in buying your gas. if that's the case why don't people do that already? everyone knows the price of gas is going to rise, how come you don't see people buying gas now and selling it in the future when it costs more?

you make it sound like business owners who utilize transportation, like shipping/delivery companies don't already use their own corporate gas cards for perks. i would love to see you walk up to this supposed business man in your above scenario, offer to sell him your gas cards and he goes "why would i buy your gas cards with cash when i can purchase gas with my Exxon Visa corporate card and be entitled to rewards and other incentives?".

this douche lynch is trying to insinuate if he saw someone selling gas for $2 a gallon out of the back of a truck he'd actually buy it sight unseen. or if he walked by an alley and someone said "pssst, you there, wanna buy some cheap gas cards?" lynch would be gung-ho for it. where is this huge market that exists that would purchase discount gas cards sight unseen? you mean to tell me if you saw someone selling discount gas cards in craigslist you would buy them just like that and assume it was legit and not a scam? if that's the case i have some cards in my drawer here i can sell you really cheap that each have a balance of $100 on them that you can use at any gas station you want. i promise it's completely legit.

[sabotai]

Actually I know a local Cstore owner who shut off his pumps and tagged them out of fuel (while they were actually full) two weeks ago because he figured the gas would be worth more 1 week later.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[stevew]

gas stations make almost no money on gas, especially if credit is used as payment. It's actually better for him to sit on several thousand gallons and pray for a 40 cent increase, than to move it for 3 cents profit.

[sabotai]

gas stations make almost no money on gas, especially if credit is used as payment. It's actually better for him to sit on several thousand gallons and pray for a 40 cent increase, than to move it for 3 cents profit.

I should revise what I said. If he's part of a chain, then it's dumb to do that. If he's independant, then that's different.

[CU Tiger]

FWIW he is a local guy who owns 4 or 5 but no chain/affiliation.

Regardless if you buy it at 3.099...why sell it at 3.15 if you find it reasonable to sell it at 3.55 two weeks later.

You have no carrying cost, your lost revenue is minimal and on a couple thousand gallons .40 adds up

[Anthony]

Pay with paypal/credit card/etc, and fight the charge. Its clearcut fraud.

if i was selling $75 cards that intentionally only had $35 on them and you disputed the charge, i would say to Paypal "how do you know this person didn't put $40 worth of gas in their tank 1st and then claimed the card was shipped to them with $35?".

[CU Tiger]

if i was selling $75 cards that intentionally only had $35 on them and you disputed the charge, i would say to Paypal "how do you know this person didn't put $40 worth of gas in their tank 1st and then claimed the card was shipped to them with $35?".

Those cards are on a network, and each transaction is recorded. It would take all of 5 minutes to tell you what location, what day the card was activated and every time it had been used since.

Come on, man. You are wrong on this one, quit looking for disected bits to argue...

[Anthony]

There are so many bad arguments here it is pathetic.

-Number 1 I own a bsiness and 8 trucks. I get 5% back on my AmEx card, but you are damn right Id buy 31k in gas from anyone for 15k. We would probably meet at said store and have each card checked or some other security measure, but Id do it in a heartbeat. So you approach some corp. myth is debunked.

-10 years is garbage, our personal fuel bill is over $800/month maybe 5 years.

- you are damn right I will take a house WORTH 500 before I take 350k cash. Id sell the 500k house CHEAP for 450, make 100k extra and be tax sheltered, next.

- rambling about investing 15k for 15k worth of gas is assinine and totally not the point. I would gladly pay you 15k for 31k worth of gas today. (any idea wheen the last major gas price drop was?)

-why dont people do it alreeady? Ummm where the hell are you living? Ever hear of oil futures? thats exactly what that is, people bying tanker trucks full and sitting. Actually I know a local Cstore owner who shut off his pumps and tagged them out of fuel (while they were actually full) two weeks ago because he figured the gas would be worth more 1 week later.

I bet you would takee the hypothetical $100,000 before the magic penny too, right? Thats what you are saying....


Geez...15k liquid vs 31k hard goods....NO BRAINER and thats before we discuss tax implications, which by the way make it more of a no brainer.

hi, i'm 2 days ago, why didn't you post here when we were in the thick of the discussion and everyone still cared?

[Anthony]

Those cards are on a network, and each transaction is recorded. It would take all of 5 minutes to tell you what location, what day the card was activated and every time it had been used since.

Come on, man. You are wrong on this one, quit looking for disected bits to argue...

i don't sell on ebay anyway. if i MUST sell, i do it on craigslist and i accept cash. no papertrails, no paypal. cash.

who are you gonna complain to then on craigslist? they don't get involved in disputes and there's no seller history/feedback. i don't sell much, but that's my method of choice when i need to.

do not think you know more. :)

[sabotai]

Regardless if you buy it at 3.099...why sell it at 3.15 if you find it reasonable to sell it at 3.55 two weeks later.

You have no carrying cost, your lost revenue is minimal and on a couple thousand gallons .40 adds up

Your lost of revenue is not minimal. The functions of gas stations at Cstores is not to sell gas, it's to get people to go inside and make impulse buys (A pack of smokes, a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea, a candy bar, lottery tickets, etc.) and to get people to come to that store to make regular Cstore purchases (since you provide them with two things they need, not just one). If you shut your pumps off (giving your customers only one thing they need), you are turning away a sizeable portion of your instore profit (since now they go down the street and get both gas and Cstore items somewhere else). It's the same reason stores like Best Buy will sell certain items, like CDs, at a lose. They take a high demand product, sell it for close to cost or even at a lose, to get people to go into the store and buy something else (that provides a high return).

Even if gas prices were to increase 40 cents in 2 weeks, which would be an incrediblly astronomical amount in that short of a time frame, he probably still loses more instore profit in those two weeks they are off (plus some profit in the weeks after since some of his regulars get used to going elsewhere) than he makes by playing speculation with gas prices and "hitting it big", which in your example, would give $400 per thousand gallons sold. If he has a 10k gallon tank, and he manages to sell it all in that one week, that's a $4000 return on an very improbable rise in gas prices, and I bet he loses more than $4k in profit in those two weeks from lose of instore business.

And that doesn't include the PR hit he'll take as the guy who let his pumps sit empty for 2 weeks while everyone else was able to keep up with demand.

[lynchjm24]

There are so many bad arguments here it is pathetic.

-Number 1 I own a bsiness and 8 trucks. I get 5% back on my AmEx card, but you are damn right Id buy 31k in gas from anyone for 15k. We would probably meet at said store and have each card checked or some other security measure, but Id do it in a heartbeat. So you approach some corp. myth is debunked.



How could one possibly call a corporation and attempt to sell them anything?

FOR FUCKS SAKE THAT IS THE ENTIRE ECONOMY.

Obviously we are talking about WHAT WE KNOW. If there are restrictions that make the cards less valuable then we could account for that IF WE KNEW WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS WERE. Since this is a hypothetical, it seems fair to talk about what we do not, not what we don't.

[CU Tiger]

hi, i'm 2 days ago, why didn't you post here when we were in the thick of the discussion and everyone still cared?

Jackass you posted at 8Am and I posted the SAME FUCKING DAY at 10PM.
Where the hell are your 2 days?

i don't sell on ebay anyway. if i MUST sell, i do it on craigslist and i accept cash. no papertrails, no paypal. cash.

who are you gonna complain to then on craigslist? they don't get involved in disputes and there's no seller history/feedback. i don't sell much, but that's my method of choice when i need to.

do not think you know more. :)

Doesnt matter where you sell, you mentioned the contesting of the cards, I merely pointed out that they can be verified.

Sorry to bee an ass, actually Im not, but this is typical and tired of you. You make a blanket, false statement, someone calls you on it, you attack the person, then blow a straw man down and call yourself victorious.

The debate was not ebay vs craigslist
Its 15k in cash vs 31k in gas.

The only person who wouldnt take 31k in gas is you because you are too full of hot air. Grow up.

Your lost of revenue is not minimal. The functions of gas stations at Cstores is not to sell gas, it's to get people to go inside and make impulse buys (A pack of smokes, a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea, a candy bar, lottery tickets, etc.) and to get people to come to that store to make regular Cstore purchases (since you provide them with two things they need, not just one). If you shut your pumps off (giving your customers only one thing they need), you are turning away a sizeable portion of your instore profit (since now they go down the street and get both gas and Cstore items somewhere else). It's the same reason stores like Best Buy will sell certain items, like CDs, at a lose. They take a high demand product, sell it for close to cost or even at a lose, to get people to go into the store and buy something else (that provides a high return).

Even if gas prices were to increase 40 cents in 2 weeks, which would be an incrediblly astronomical amount in that short of a time frame, he probably still loses more instore profit in those two weeks they are off (plus some profit in the weeks after since some of his regulars get used to going elsewhere) than he makes by playing speculation with gas prices and "hitting it big", which in your example, would give $400 per thousand gallons sold. If he has a 10k gallon tank, and he manages to sell it all in that one week, that's a $4000 return on an very improbable rise in gas prices, and I bet he loses more than $4k in profit in those two weeks from lose of instore business.

And that doesn't include the PR hit he'll take as the guy who let his pumps sit empty for 2 weeks while everyone else was able to keep up with demand.


Well in all honesty the store in question is at least 5 miles from the next cstore in a very rural area.
People will stop there to get there goods then realize there is no gas and move along, after theey buy their 6 pack and smokes.
.40 in 2 weeks may be unlikely but its exactly what we have seen in the past 2 weeks.

[14ers]

The only person who wouldnt take 31k in gas is you because you are too full of hot air. Grow up.

I would take the cash since I do not live anywhere near the West Virginia Gas Station and I didn't read anything about the gas cards being transerable to other people.


Casinos are not in the business to lose money. I think the fine print would read something like this.
1) Gas only available at a particular gas station
2) Gift cards only available in exact amounts. (50 gallon gift cards) Pump 1 or 50 gallons it doesn't matter.
3) Gift cards written in your name.

[CU Tiger]

Casinos are not in the business to lose money. I think the fine print would read something like this.
1) Gas only available at a particular gas station
2) Gift cards only available in exact amounts. (50 gallon gift cards) Pump 1 or 50 gallons it doesn't matter.
3) Gift cards written in your name.



You are right, Casinos are NOT out to lose money.
The agreement would go more like this.

Mr. Casino, I want to advertise my struggling gas station and drive in business. I am willing to run a promo that wil assist you and allow me free advertising. I will give you 31k worth of gas to giveaway for 15k dollars.
Then you can give away a 31k prize and it only costs you 15k.

My real cost is probably closer to 20k, I'll write somee off to advertising, I'll offset more with the increased revenue and I'll wager that all the gas will never be used to further drive down my promo cost.

So the casino would have the gas and add the cash option as a legal non-raqueteering escape.

[stevew]

Wheeling Island Fuel Daze Giveaway finale draws big crowds for grand prize drawing!


WHEELING, W.Va. (April 18, 2008) — William B. of Rayland, Ohio, was the winner of Wheeling Island’s Fuel Daze Giveaway grand prize drawing for $15,000 cash or a tanker of gas, capable of holding 9,000 gallons of gas when full.

William’s entry was drawn from the entry barrel at 10pm tonight in the Wheeling Island showroom, as the casino concluded its Fuel Daze Giveaway event. The giveaway was the first of its kind in West Virginia and drew big crowds to the casino showroom for the grand prize drawing.

Leading up to the grand prize drawing, 14 lucky guests won $100 gas cards every 30 minutes from12pm-7pm.

Wheeling Island guests were eligible to receive one free entry with their Wheeling Island Players Club card on Fridays, April 4, 11 and 18 and earned bonus entries based on their slot and table play.

To commemorate the event, a tanker of gas was on display in front of Wheeling Island from 7pm-8pm tonight compliments of Tri-State Petroleum.

For more information, contact Kim Florence at 304-231-1839.

Someone needs to call and see which option the winner took. I doubt his cash grew by 15-20% in the last 5 weeks if he chose that option.