2007-08 NBA Playoffs thread

[Groundhog]

Yeah, until we get androids that are capable of replaying a situation over and over again in slow motion a microsecond before blowing the whistle, we are stuck with wrong calls from time to time. It's especially tough in a free-flowing game like basketball which has a lot of contact, most of it illegal, strictly speaking.

[LloydLungs]

like the reffing in college basketball is any better, really.

Yeah, I'm not saying NBA refs are particularly good -- they're not -- but college basketball refs, particularly at the mid-major level and below, are just horrendous to the point of being completely overwhelmed. But even watching the NCAA tournament, I really think there's maybe 10 or 11 good college refs tops.

Certainly, after getting my fill of the guys who ref games at the U. of New Orleans, the NBA guys seem competent by comparison.

[korme]

Reffing is the most unrewarding job in the world. I had trouble doing intramural games, people can be intimidating. I understand they are pros, I just have some sympathy for refs

[miami_fan]

like the reffing in every sport is any better, really.

Fixed.

As long as Umps can have their own strike zones and football refs can decide when they are going to throw a flag despite "being able to call holding on every play", I am not prepared to say that NBA refs somehow have cornered the market on inserting themselves into games.

[miami_fan]

Mr. Overrated does in the Wizards again. It will be interesting to see what the Wizards do with Gilbert Arenas this offseason. I think I take my chances with some sort of sign and trade deal and move one without him if I am the Wizards.

Meanwhile, in ATL, the Hawks are making a serious run at a game 7 against the C's.

[miami_fan]

Man the Celtics can't buy a bucket in the 4th.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pierce & composure seem to have only a passing relationship. And somehow it seems the Hawks are all up in Boston's head.

And I have to admit I do like the way Al Horford plays.

[DaddyTorgo]

motherfuckin celtics...post up garnett. When they double him have a guy shoot the 3. It's motherfuckin simple.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow...their inability to win in the playoffs in ATL is just...mind-blowing to me

[JonInMiddleGA]

wow...their inability to win in the playoffs in ATL is just...mind-blowing to me]

Not nearly as shocking as it is to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's embarassing

no offense to the hawks, but they shouldn't even really be in this series. How do you drop 3 games to the #8 seed, especially a #8 seed in the weaker conference? A team that you beat easily in what...all but one game of the regular season?

[Brian Swartz]

Atlanta's got nothing to lose, Boston has everything. Combine that with their inexperience doing this together, and it becomes a fair amount less surprising.

Regular-season means a whole lot of not much this time of year.

[Galaril]

Damn the eltics look like the Phoenix Suns from a year or two ago when they were unbeatable in the reg season and sucked in the playoffs

[molson]

Atlanta's got nothing to lose, Boston has everything. Combine that with their inexperience doing this together, and it becomes a fair amount less surprising.

Regular-season means a whole lot of not much this time of year.

8-seeds are 3-46 in NBA Playoff history - I'd say this is pretty surprising. The Hawks have the chance to pull off something ridiculous.

I still don't think the Celtics have played terribly in these Atlanta games (though they really lost their composure in the 4th quarter tonight and played horribly on offense).

[Brian Swartz]

Yes, it's surprising that it's going to Game 7, I just mean it's not the shocker to me that it seems to be to most people. I had Atlanta winning one game, maybe two, while everybody else seemed to think it would be four games, probably all by blowout. The salient point is that the Celtics are not a typical #1 seed in terms of having played together in the playoffs, a coach who has been through this before(as a coach), etc. -- they are in kind of a unique situation and some hiccups are to be expected.

Basically just saying that the predictions of Boston as an unstoppable juggernaut after the regular season never made a whole lot of sense to me. It would still be historic if they lost to Atlanta.

[MrBug708]

ESPN is reporting that Kobe won the MVP

[BishopMVP]

Pierce & composure seem to have only a passing relationship. And somehow it seems the Hawks are all up in Boston's head.

And I have to admit I do like the way Al Horford plays.I didn't see the game, just the highlights in passing.... as much as Pierce should just STFU and go to the bench, you have to admit that 6th foul of his was pretty ludicrous.

(On the other hand, I also will admit I like Al Horford and his game.)

[JeeberD]

Well, there goes any interest I had in the playoffs this year. Unless Atlanta can pull off the upset, that is, and make a run. That would be cool...

[Vince]

Yes, it's surprising that it's going to Game 7, I just mean it's not the shocker to me that it seems to be to most people. I had Atlanta winning one game, maybe two, while everybody else seemed to think it would be four games, probably all by blowout. The salient point is that the Celtics are not a typical #1 seed in terms of having played together in the playoffs, a coach who has been through this before(as a coach), etc. -- they are in kind of a unique situation and some hiccups are to be expected.

Basically just saying that the predictions of Boston as an unstoppable juggernaut after the regular season never made a whole lot of sense to me. It would still be historic if they lost to Atlanta.

See, I don't know how much weight you can lend to the theory of playoff inexperience.

The Celtics absolutely DESTROYED teams in the regular season. Their average point differential for the whole season was over +10 per game. Second best was around +8 or so. They won almost 30 more games than the Hawks in the regular season.

I understand that the playoffs is a different beast, but the talent discrepancy between these two teams was insanely large.

[DeToxRox]

ESPN is reporting that Kobe won the MVP

About f'ing time.

[Neon_Chaos]

I will chalk up the Hawks' unlikely run to that old saying... any given sunday.

[stevew]

Washington Wizards - "Where can't back it up happens"

<object width="425" height="373"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H9Feqrz4LiY&hl=en&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H9Feqrz4LiY&hl=en&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="373"></embed></object>

[Brian Swartz]

See, I don't know how much weight you can lend to the theory of playoff inexperience.

The Celtics absolutely DESTROYED teams in the regular season. Their average point differential for the whole season was over +10 per game. Second best was around +8 or so. They won almost 30 more games than the Hawks in the regular season.

I understand that the playoffs is a different beast, but the talent discrepancy between these two teams was insanely large.

Largely due to KG's influence, the Celtics were also the most focused team in the regular season, and it's very likely this inflated their numbers. Problem for them is that everybody is focused in the playoffs, more or less(except for the Pistons :)).

It's not true just because I say it is. Only once in the last seven years has the team with the best regular-season record won the title -- and this is with most of them having a lot more games played together than this season's Celtics. More often than not they watch the NBA Finals on TV. This is not an accident.

Obviously they are a lot better than the Hawks. But traditionally speaking great regular season does not automatically equal great playoff performance. Great talent getting thrown together often has problems. Boston might not necessarily have these problems, but it doesn't make much sense to assume they won't either.

[Lathum]

what was the reason for a 19 minute delay in the NO-SA game?

[Brian Swartz]

NO mascot jumped through a ring of fire for a dunk. That went well.

Then the fire wouldn't go out. A fire extinguisher was required, after which they had to spend considerable time cleaning and drying out the court.

[Lathum]

NO mascot jumped through a ring of fire for a dunk. That went well.

Then the fire wouldn't go out. A fire extinguisher was required, after which they had to spend considerable time cleaning and drying out the court.

thas awesome

[Dr. Sak]

NO mascot jumped through a ring of fire for a dunk. That went well.

Then the fire wouldn't go out. A fire extinguisher was required, after which they had to spend considerable time cleaning and drying out the court.

He faired better than Frank the Tank.

[Tigercat]

Very strangely officiated game tonight between the Hornets and Spurs. Both teams have been the victims of some really silly minor fouls that have been called, while lots of muggings by both teams were ignored.

When David West was drafted, I thought he would just be a solid stiff at PF. Amazing that hes turned into a guy that can create his own shots so well.

[Arles]

Chris Paul was sick in the 4th and West is a very good player. This Hornets team is a blast to watch.

[LloydLungs]

Buying season tickets to the Hornets this year is officially the best sports-related decision of my life. I think our little secret down here might be getting out.

[Noop]

Perkins is having the best 1st quarter I have seen in a long time. He is doing it on both sides of the ball.

8pts, 6rebs, 2 blks

[DaddyTorgo]

Perkins is having the best 1st quarter I have seen in a long time. He is doing it on both sides of the ball.

8pts, 6rebs, 2 blks

scary thing is (as they mentioned) dude is only 23...he may not have TONS of room to grow, but he's still young and has a lot of productive years ahead of him

[larrymcg421]

I'd love Perkins if he'd just stop dribbling the damn ball. Seems like everytime he gets the ball in the paint, he comes down with it and dribbles under the basket.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'd love Perkins if he'd just stop dribbling the damn ball. Seems like everytime he gets the ball in the paint, he comes down with it and dribbles under the basket.

valid point. He's thick...he needs to learn to just go up with the ball.

then again - he's only been a "regular" last year and this year (IIRC) so hopefully he's learning that

[larrymcg421]

I don't know what's up with the Hawks. I went to games 3, 4, and 6 (unfortunately), and the Hawks were fired up for the entire game each time. Other than Joe Johnson, the Hawks just look confused and helpless. Mike Bibby was hopping around like a rabbit throughout each of the Atlanta games, but he just entered the game like it was a preseason contest.

[Sublime 2]

That's some good Defense...held Atlanta to 26 points and very few second chance opportunities, something the Hawks thrived on in the Celtic losses.

[DaddyTorgo]

60-30 midway through the 3rd at the Garden

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

and Marvin Williams ejected for the Hawks for a flagrant-2 on Rondo

[larrymcg421]

Will the Hawks even get to 50 points? Wow.

[Vince]

So could the Hawks pushing Boston to a game 7 be the best thing that could have possibly happened to them in round 1? Wake them up a little, make them realize that this isn't just for shits and giggles? Let them know that everyone will be gunning for them?

[Neon_Chaos]

Barring an epic meltdown of disasterous proportions... the Celtics are going to win this one. Thanks for the good TV, Hawks. :)

[jeff061]

If only they could play every game in Boston.

[larrymcg421]

If only they could play every game in Boston.

I don't think that's going to be a real problem. The Celtics were 31-10 on the road this season and beat some very good teams along the way. I thinkt heir road struggles in this series will be an anomaly.

[BishopMVP]

So could the Hawks pushing Boston to a game 7 be the best thing that could have possibly happened to them in round 1? Wake them up a little, make them realize that this isn't just for shits and giggles? Let them know that everyone will be gunning for them?I think the Game 3 loss did that. The truth is, in the small sample size, they have played poorly and haven't shown they can win on the road. At the same time, they have looked incredible every game at home, and they do have home-court advantage.

[Big Fo]

:D :D :D at Jack Nicholson standing inches from the court shouting at the ref "C'mon Charlie, he fucking killed him!" on national TV.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting comments from Joe Johnson after Sunday's loss in Boston.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/05/04/hawks0505.html

"I thought we'd come into this game knowing what was at stake and knowing we had a chance to make history and move on to the next round," Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said. "I thought we'd come out with a lot more enthusiasm and a lot more discipline and we didn't do any of that. We came out so lethargic. We had no continuity on offense. It was a joke, man."
...
"We're so inexperienced and we showed that every game in Boston," Johnson said. "We had no chance of winning games here. None. I guess some of these guys thought we were just going to be able to come out and play hard and have fun. There's more to it than that.

"Four games here and we got run ragged all four times. You would think in Game 7 you would have a [expletive] clue. We didn't have a clue as to what was going on out there."

Thing that struck me was that, in addition to his understandable frustration, I'm pretty sure somebody was sent under a bus ... but it seemed more like the players than the coach. Johnson has already voiced his desire that Woodson stay while saying that the team needed more veteran players because "We've got a lot of young guys that are just running wild [on offense]".

[Groundhog]

Johnson has already voiced his desire that Woodson stay while saying that the team needed more veteran players because "We've got a lot of young guys that are just running wild [on offense]".

He's right too. The only games of this series that I saw were all the road games, so the only times I've seen the Hawks this entire season have been in these playoff wins, and they looked like a very good team. Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, Childress and Horford all showed plenty of glimpses of talent and made the Hawks look like a pretty awesome for an 8th seed.

But you can't build a contender through the draft alone, no matter how much young talent you pick up. They had the right idea bringing in Bibby, but still far too many of their impact players are inexperienced - Bibby and Johnson (from his Phoenix days) are the only playoff experienced players on the entire roster. They lack veteran role players and at least one veteran contributing starter.

As good as Josh Smith often is, he'd be the guy I'd look to deal this offseason. Outside of Johnson he'd have the most value, and he's also often the most erratic. And, I believe, he's a FA? Sign and trade perhaps?

[Groundhog]

dola

Hawks also have the draft rights to Aussie 6'11 PF/C David Andersen, 27 years old now, and apparently are thinking about bringing him over next season.

He's with CSKA Moscow (a team SI said was probably better than half a dozen NBA teams) as their starting PF right now and just took out the Euroleague title. I've seen him play a little bit for Australia at the international level, and he's a very talented jump-shooting big guy who would be able to step straight in and contribute in the NBA.

His contract with CSKA Moscow is up this offseason, but it'll be a question of whether the Hawks are willing to pay more than he can make playing in Europe.

[Neon_Chaos]

Hope the Lakers can maintain their composure throughout the series against the Jazz and finish it quickly.

[rkmsuf]

Love all the Atlanta false hope now.

[BishopMVP]

dola

Hawks also have the draft rights to Aussie 6'11 PF/C David Andersen, 27 years old now, and apparently are thinking about bringing him over next season.

He's with CSKA Moscow (a team SI said was probably better than half a dozen NBA teams) as their starting PF right now and just took out the Euroleague title. I've seen him play a little bit for Australia at the international level, and he's a very talented jump-shooting big guy who would be able to step straight in and contribute in the NBA.

His contract with CSKA Moscow is up this offseason, but it'll be a question of whether the Hawks are willing to pay more than he can make playing in Europe.If he was drafted, would he be subject to the rookie scale, or is that just for 1st-round picks?

[stevew]

The can sign him using any cap space they have, or midlevel exception. Since he was a 2nd rounder, he is not subject to a salary scale.

[stevew]

Looks like the Pistons hired the Hawks timekeeping staff tonight.

[Oilers9911]

How can they just make a judgement call like that? To me, if the clock doesn't start you reset the clock and run the play again. That seems crazy.

[Brian Swartz]

Also mostly irrelevant really. One play in a 48-minute game that happened at the end of the third quarter is much ado about nothing.

[stevew]

When it came down to the last minute and the pistons were ahead by 3, i think it matters. At least a little bit.

[Brian Swartz]

No more than any other missed or made shot throughout the game, any other missed call, any other turnover etc.

Point is, there are so many opportunities for the game to change one way or the other, it's silly to elevate this one sequence and say that's a major reason why a team wins or loses.

[Groundhog]

OK, so, for the 7th time this postseason I'll say it again; I was wrong about the Hornets.

[miami_fan]

OK, so, for the 7th time this postseason I'll say it again; I was wrong about the Hornets.

You are not the only one.

[BishopMVP]

Chris Paul for MVP? Is it too late? If things work out, this western conference finals matchup is going to be epic.

In the Detroit/Orlando game, first off that's kind of a dumb rule that they can only look at TV replays if it's at the end of the half or game, but that wasn't even the worst call. The one that pissed me off was the dead-ball foul with like 1 minute left. Any contact happened on the far side of the court and the ref in the corner clearly watched the player stumble all the way across the court without going for his whistle. As soon as the player finally fell, immediately blows it for a foul. Either call it a foul or don't. Waiting for the player to fall is bullshit, and it leads to players diving in the long-term.

[Neon_Chaos]

Chris Paul for MVP? Is it too late?

Lol. Next time.

[Groundhog]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0505/nba_g_lebron_580.jpg

A good example of the kind of defense LeBron will be up against all night. :D

How many points will he need to average this series for the Cavs to have a chance? 40?

[DaddyTorgo]

celtics up by 10 after a quarter, and pierce only played the first couple minutes (2 early fouls). Rondo and Garnett are playing great 2-man ball and having their way with the Cavs.

[INDalltheway]

celtics up by 10 after a quarter, and pierce only played the first couple minutes (2 early fouls). Rondo and Garnett are playing great 2-man ball and having their way with the Cavs.
Cool... ;) I have actually watched some playoff basketball and surprisingly haven't regretted it.

[Groundhog]

It's a funny thing that guys seem to start sucking as soon as they become Cavs. I mean, Wally Z, the only thing he's been able to do in the NBA well is shoot the ball. He becomes a Cav? Shot goes away. Joe Smith had been having a great season for the Bulls. Becomes a Cav? Nothing.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's a funny thing that guys seem to start sucking as soon as they become Cavs. I mean, Wally Z, the only thing he's been able to do in the NBA well is shoot the ball. He becomes a Cav? Shot goes away. Joe Smith had been having a great season for the Bulls. Becomes a Cav? Nothing.

they must just get caught up in "lebron watching"

WTF is up with Allen & Pierce still not having scored and Lebron being < 10 pts this is a weird game

[Groundhog]

The NBA: Where 24% shooting happens.

Lucky the Cavs have shot 16 FTs, because 24% shooting aint going to get you too far.

[DaddyTorgo]

ugly half by both team - with the exception of KG + rondo no one seems to be in form

[DaddyTorgo]

cavs have managed to cut the C's lead down by 6pts, but they were going against a bunch of the reserves for what seemed (to me) of the majority of the quarter

[SirFozzie]

How the fuck are the Celtics going to win when Paul Pierce and Ray Allen combine for FOUR fucking points?

[larrymcg421]

LeBron once again misses a big end of game layup. I think he was fouled both times, but he still has to make those shots either way.

[larrymcg421]

How the fuck are the Celtics going to win when Paul Pierce and Ray Allen combine for FOUR fucking points?

How the fuck did the Cavs not lose by 30 with LeBron going 2-18 for 12 points?

[Sublime 2]

How the fuck did the Cavs not lose by 30 with LeBron going 2-18 for 12 points?

I think pretty simply b/c Pierce and Allen were a combined 2-18 with only 4 points.

[Groundhog]

The NBA must love these Cavs-anyone playoff series, where every game is a low percentage shooting snore-fest.

[larrymcg421]

Kenny Smith's suit just broke my television.

[Fighter of Foo]

The NBA must love these Cavs-anyone playoff series, where every game is a low percentage shooting snore-fest.

The Hawks games were infinitely more entertaining.

[molson]

I don't like Paul Pierce. He annoyed me again tonight - when he had 2 points at the half or whatever it was, you KNEW he was going to take a bunch of bad shots in the 3rd quarter, charge into everyone, and get the team in a bigger hole.

What a weird game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/05/07/hawks_0508.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Atlanta Hawks general manager Billy Knight has resigned after six years with the organization, effective July 1.

Knight resigned Tuesday night after a late afternoon meeting with Hawks part owner and NBA Governor Michael Gearon Jr.

"The time has come for me to take a break and fully evaluate my future plans," Knight said in a statement released by the organization Wednesday morning. "I am tremendously pleased with what we were able to accomplish this season in reaching the postseason, as the Hawks' return to the playoffs energized the city and our franchise.

"My passion for the franchise has never wavered, but I feel I'm leaving the organization in much better shape than it was in when I took over. I also appreciate the jobs done by Mike (Woodson), his staff and the players during this season. They are most deserving of the praise and accolades they earned during a tough, seven-game series against the Eastern Conference's top team entering the playoffs, and I wish them and the Spirit organization the very best in the future."

The Hawks ended a nine-year playoff drought this season and pushed the Boston Celtics to a Game 7 in a first round playoff series that ended Sunday.

Knight, 55, built the Hawks from the ground up, having spent his first season with the organization as the director of basketball operations before taking over as general manager.

The Hawks' best season under Knight came this year with a 37-45 regular season record and that first round playoff exit.

We respect the decision Billy has made to resign and we are grateful and appreciative of the job he has done," Gearon said in a statement released by the team.

"Billy has built a team of athletic, high character players who have enormous potential. Under his leadership, the Hawks were not only the youngest team in this year's playoffs, but have also proven to be the most exciting team Atlanta has seen since the Dominique (Wilkins) era of the 80's. We look forward to building on Billy's success as we continue our efforts to emerge as one of the NBA's elite franchises for a long time to come."

[rkmsuf]

that cavs/c's game was like watching two monkeys hump a football

[Fighter of Foo]

I'll add my translation...

Atlanta Hawks general manager Billy Knight has resigned after six years with the organization, effective July 1. Thank you God.

Knight resigned Tuesday night after a late afternoon meeting with Hawks part owner and NBA Governor Michael Gearon Jr.

"The time has come for me to take a break and fully evaluate my future plans," Knight said in a statement released by the organization Wednesday morning. "I am tremendously pleased with what we were able to accomplish this season in reaching the postseason, as the Hawks' return to the playoffs energized the city and our franchise.

"My passion for the franchise has never wavered, but I feel I'm leaving the organization in much better shape than it was in when I took over. I also appreciate the jobs done by Mike (Woodson), his staff and the players during this season. They are most deserving of the praise and accolades they earned during a tough, seven-game series against the Eastern Conference's top team entering the playoffs, and I wish them and the Spirit organization the very best in the future." I tried to fire Mike but the owners wouldn't let me. My ego is bruised.

The Hawks ended a nine-year playoff drought this season and pushed the Boston Celtics to a Game 7 in a first round playoff series that ended Sunday. The east sucks.

Knight, 55, built the Hawks from the ground up, having spent his first season with the organization as the director of basketball operations before taking over as general manager.

The Hawks' best season under Knight came this year with a 37-45 regular season record and that first round playoff exit. This is fucking terrible.

We respect the decision Billy has made to resign and we are grateful and appreciative of the job he has done," Gearon said in a statement released by the team.

"Billy has built a team of athletic, high character players who have enormous potential. Under his leadership, the Hawks were not only the youngest team in this year's playoffs, but have also proven to be the most exciting team Atlanta has seen since the Dominique (Wilkins) era of the 80's. We look forward to building on Billy's success as we continue our efforts to emerge as one of the NBA's elite franchises for a long time to come." Billy passed on drafting Chris Paul because he was too short. We waited two years to ensure that, yes, it was as dumb as it sounded at the time. Hopefully our new GM will avoid doing something as monumentally stupid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hopefully our new GM, Isiah Thomas, will avoid doing something as monumentally stupid.

:D

[Fighter of Foo]

It's not even funny. Reportedly we're weighing up an offer for former Sixers GM Billy King. He's not in Isiah's class, but is unsurpassed in handing out obscene extensions to role players. Jon Konkak would be proud.

[SirFozzie]

LeBron 3-13 in the first half, the Cavs with SEVEN 2nd Quarter points with 1:00 to play.

[Groundhog]

Well, at least I get to catch the first Cavs game at home live on the weekend. LeBron figures to blow-up.

[Groundhog]

I'm really glad I'm not watching this game. 5-20 so far for LeBron.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think lebron has to do a little better at home, but I don't expect him to magically bust out. I think the C's defense just has him bottled up

[Noop]

LeBron needs to learn how to fight through this because right now he has taken a few steps back in my mind. He needs to develop a damn shot else the blueprint on him is out.

[DaddyTorgo]

LeBron needs to learn how to fight through this because right now he has taken a few steps back in my mind. He needs to develop a damn shot else the blueprint on him is out.

doesn't help him that the other threats on his team are big Z and Wally Sczerbiak (who has to be wheeled out onto the court in a damn wheelchair practically).

The C's have no defense for Z, that is true. And he has been hot. But Sczerbiak is a bum, so it's basically 2-man basketball with lebron being doubled and force to shoot (poor) jumpshots.

[Noop]

doesn't help him that the other threats on his team are big Z and Wally Sczerbiak (who has to be wheeled out onto the court in a damn wheelchair practically).

The C's have no defense for Z, that is true. And he has been hot. But Sczerbiak is a bum, so it's basically 2-man basketball with lebron being doubled and force to shoot (poor) jumpshots.

While some of that is true to a point I still believe LeBron needs to nutt up and play through this, because his demeanor on the court is one of defeat. Did he not watch film? He has taken a few steps back in my opinion because someone with his size and strenght should still be able to get to the basket.

I was taught that if your able to get pass the first defender then you should be able to make the layup or get fouled. I am watching the game with a bunch of other basketball guys and all of them are saying he is a bitch, and I agree with them. He is better then what he showed and not to take anything away from the Celtics who as expected stepped their games up but the reason LeBron isn't playing better is because of LeBron.

[DaddyTorgo]

While some of that is true to a point I still believe LeBron needs to nutt up and play through this, because his demeanor on the court is one of defeat. Did he not watch film? He has taken a few steps back in my opinion because someone with his size and strenght should still be able to get to the basket.

I was taught that if your able to get pass the first defender then you should be able to make the layup or get fouled. I am watching the game with a bunch of other basketball guys and all of them are saying he is a bitch, and I agree with them. He is better then what he showed and not to take anything away from the Celtics who as expected stepped their games up but the reason LeBron isn't playing better is because of LeBron.

no doubt he needs to nutt up and play through it, that's what great players do. But if you watch, it seems that he was having a very difficult time getting past the first defender because of the help defense and the cushion they were giving him (note that I probably am less basketball-knowledgable than you and your buddies, just saying what it seemed like)

[Groundhog]

I was taught that if your able to get pass the first defender then you should be able to make the layup or get fouled.

I haven't seen the game, but if the Celtics are playing him like they played Joe Johnson, it's not quite so easy - you get around the first defender and then you have 3 other guys sagging in on you. It's also what San Antonio did to him last year in the finals.

[Noop]

I watched him countless times just give up the pass even before the double team arrived. If he tried I am sure he will be able to draw fouls and eventually put a few defenders in foul trouble. It has been my experience that once you have passed the first defender the rest should not matter.

He should be making layups and baby jumpers all game or making passes to teammates headed toward the basket. Either that or drawing fouls.

Just my opinion.

[Fidatelo]

It has been my experience that once you have passed the first defender the rest should not matter.

So then really fast guys that can get past their man at will should be indefensible, right?

Also, what is your experience at NBA basketball?

[Noop]

So then really fast guys that can get past their man at will should be indefensible, right?

Also, what is your experience at NBA basketball?

I have zero experience with NBA basketball and other then my experience coaching and playing I guess I am talking out my ass.

[Fidatelo]

I have zero experience with NBA basketball and other then my experience coaching and playing I guess I am talking out my ass.

Excellent, we have found common ground! :D

[Noop]

Excellent, we have found common ground! :D

Ergh... No. If it were Micheal Jordan, Kobe, Larry Bird or any number of great players they would have found a way to make the Celtics pay. So what is your experience with the NBA other then sitting on your ass and watching. I am going to guess none.

[larrymcg421]

Ergh... No. If it were Micheal Jordan, Kobe, Larry Bird or any number of great players they would have found a way to make the Celtics pay. So what is your experience with the NBA other then sitting on your ass and watching. I am going to guess none.

Heh, any time that tried that against Bird would have paid dearly, because McHale would have 40+ points. Same with Gasol or Pippen. Unfortunately, LeBron does not have anyone nearly as good as those guys.

[Brian Swartz]

Good defensive teams are more than capable of stopping a player from a layup/foul in most situations where they beat the first man -- it will usually lead to an open shot for someone else, but that beating the first guy theory is far too simplistic.

The supporting cast is an issue with LeBron, and his outside shot also isn't as good as those other players. All of these things have their effect. When he makes his outside shot he's unstoppable, but he's not consistent enough with it to defeat a team that is willing to give it to him all the time and force others to make shots, when he doesn't have many guys on his team that can do that or put pressure on the defense on their own.

[Noop]

Heh, any time that tried that against Bird would have paid dearly, because McHale would have 40+ points. Same with Gasol or Pippen. Unfortunately, LeBron does not have anyone nearly as good as those guys.

I meant killer instinct. But you have a valid point which makes last season's run to the finals so odd. How did he do it last season but not this season?

I enjoy watching LeBron play and think he is one of the most dominate players in the game today. That being said his attitude tonight was deplorable for someone who is suppose to be a superstar. His body language was of someone who flat out quit in my opinion. He does not have that never say died attitude like Micheal Jordan, Larry Bird, or Kobe in my opinion. Each of those guys and many others when given daylight would have taken advantage of it.

[Noop]

Good defensive teams are more than capable of stopping a player from a layup/foul in most situations where they beat the first man -- it will usually lead to an open shot for someone else, but that beating the first guy theory is far too simplistic.

It is simple. Beat the first guy and force the defense to either stay at home and let you have an easy layup or shot. Or they can provide help defense and the person who is open should be making his way toward the basket. Utah with Stockon and Malone were known for this... The problem I saw with LeBron was he would make his move with the intention of passing and not attacking the basketball.

[Brian Swartz]

It is simple. Beat the first guy and force the defense to either stay at home and let you have an easy layup or shot. Or they can provide help defense and the person who is open should be making his way toward the basket. Utah with Stockon and Malone were known for this... The problem I saw with LeBron was he would make his move with the intention of passing and not attacking the basketball.

Except that if the defense fears your drive more than your shot and commits to giving you a cushion, you aren't going to consistently get past that first guy. Also, against good teams a perimeter player will rotate into the lane to cover the help defender, so what is open is a pass back outside(watch any SA-PHO game from the last few years for examples).

As far as Stockton-Malone ... their most common result was an open shot for Malone of the type that LeBron is missing against Boston.

I meant killer instinct. But you have a valid point which makes last season's run to the finals so odd. How did he do it last season but not this season?

They have someone different personnell this year, first of all(their rebounding and perimeter defense are both down as a result). Secondly, they played nobody as good as Boston in getting to the finals last year. Thirdly, against the Pistons he was making his jumper somewhat more often than he is now(espescially of course in Game Five). Fourthly, Gibson was providing outside shooting.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Vince]

At the risk of being an absolute jerk, it's "dominant," not "dominate." Dominate is a verb.

That being said...even terrible NBA players can hit open shots. If LeBron is beating one guy and having 2-3 sag on him, that leaves only 1 or 2 defenders not paying attention to LeBron - and he's still taking the majority of the shots on the team (24 tonight, with 2nd best only 12 shots taken). He needs to pass the ball more if they're so focused on him, crappy supporting cast be damned.

[INDalltheway]

The Spurs are annoying.. That's all I got.

[Karlifornia]

At the risk of being an absolute jerk, it's "dominant," not "dominate." Dominate is a verb.

That being said...even terrible NBA players can hit open shots. If LeBron is beating one guy and having 2-3 sag on him, that leaves only 1 or 2 defenders not paying attention to LeBron - and he's still taking the majority of the shots on the team (24 tonight, with 2nd best only 12 shots taken). He needs to pass the ball more if they're so focused on him, crappy supporting cast be damned.



Well, you're not being a jerk, but rather taking ultra-small forcepts and plucking a piece of plankton out of an ocean full of them.

As far as LeBron goes...dude needs to get out of Cleveland. It reeks of Maravich or Archie Manning status. He needs to play out this contract, and then go play for Brooklyn Nets, who by that time will have Devin Harris, no Vince Carter, and possibly a few awesome draft picks.

[stevew]

2008 lebron is settling. 2007 lebron had a chip on his shoulder. The cavs will never do anything till they get another legit player. If that day ever happens, they will probably win 3-4 titles in 5 years.

[Fidatelo]

Ergh... No. If it were Micheal Jordan, Kobe, Larry Bird or any number of great players they would have found a way to make the Celtics pay. So what is your experience with the NBA other then sitting on your ass and watching. I am going to guess none.

When I said we have common ground, I meant in relation to you talking out of your ass (as anything I say in here would be coming out of my ass too).

That said, I still think you're wrong.

[rkmsuf]

Man the Cavs suck. When you have Wally World and Delonte West starting for you, you got problems.

[Noop]

When I said we have common ground, I meant in relation to you talking out of your ass (as anything I say in here would be coming out of my ass too).

That said, I still think you're wrong.

Ok then. Thank you for playing.

[st.cronin]

One of the reasons I find the NBA hard to watch at times is that so many teams, when they are down by, say, 12 points in the 3rd quarter, just visibly give up. Even in the playoffs.

[MrBug708]

I was having a conversation with a firend and we were talking about the elite players in the NBA right now. The subject of the three best NBA players came up and I picked Kobe, Lebron, and Chris Paul. He argued that Duncan and Garnett and even Wade still belong ont he same tier. Was wondering everyones thought on that subject

[Logan]

They're still top tier, but those 3 would probably be 4-6 behind the guys you listed.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think Duncan and Kobe are the top tier with LeBron, Paul, Garnett, and Wade just behind them. Howard belongs in that conversation as well.

[MrBug708]

I think Duncan and Kobe are the top tier with LeBron, Paul, Garnett, and Wade just behind them. Howard belongs in that conversation as well.

I think in years past, I would agree, but Manu carried that team this year, not Duncan. He's obviously a valuable piece to their success, but I think he's starting to drop at this point. I'm not saying he isn't a surefire HAOF, I think that he's probably not quite the same player he was before. I think that he's in the next tier still

[Noop]

I was having a conversation with a firend and we were talking about the elite players in the NBA right now. The subject of the three best NBA players came up and I picked Kobe, Lebron, and Chris Paul. He argued that Duncan and Garnett and even Wade still belong ont he same tier. Was wondering everyones thought on that subject

I think it would be Kobe, Chris Paul, LeBron (despite my berating his performance last night) I think Wade was there but has fallen to the tier just underneath those three.

Tier 1 : Paul, Kobe, LeBron
Tier 2 : Wade, Howard, Duncan, Garnett, McGrady(Barely)

Just my two cents.

[Brian Swartz]

I think in years past, I would agree, but Manu carried that team this year, not Duncan. He's obviously a valuable piece to their success, but I think he's starting to drop at this point. I'm not saying he isn't a surefire HAOF, I think that he's probably not quite the same player he was before. I think that he's in the next tier still

I totally disagree with this, but it is a popular sentiment this year. There is still a HUGE difference between the impact Duncan and Manu have on the games. For the last four years, Duncan's minutes have been down from what they were prior to that in the regular season, but his numbers this year(34.0 mpg, 19.3 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.0 bpg) are right in line with what he's done over that four-year period. His FG% is down from an outstanding year last year but is about what it was the two years previous and his FT% has not been higher than this year's 73% except in 99-00 and 01-02.

As for Manu, he missed twice as many games as Duncan did(8 to 4). He scored more than Duncan this season but when you add in all the other things that Tim does -- he's the basis for the Spurs team on both ends of the floor far more often than Manu is -- it really isn't even close.

I'd put Kobe, LeBron, and, Duncan in the top tier with Garnett, Howard, and Paul close behind them. Everybody else you could throw in there(Wade, McGrady, etc.) has issues. If Paul keeps playing like he has he'll move up to the top, ditto for Howard and KG if he comes through in the playoffs this year.

[MrBug708]

Not going to argue with the premise of your argument as I think Duncan is one of the best of all time. I thinkt he real catalyst of the Spurs is still Duncan and he's also made a great career out of ducking the better post player of the opposing team.

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe and LeBron on a tier of their own.

I'm not sold on Paul yet. Let's see how teams prepare for him next season.

[larrymcg421]

What the hell is Jon Barry smoking? How the hell can you say that this game is more important for the Celtics than the Cavs?

[Young Drachma]

Chris Paul is having a great playoffs.

[stevew]

This Ben Wallace free throw shooting was funny when he wasn't on my team

[stevew]

This team seems to play pretty well when Delonte West dominates the ball. The LeBron "pound it into the ground for 15 seconds and jack an offbalanced J" offense is pretty easy to defend.

[Groundhog]

It's sorta hard to get used to Cleveland having a PG who can not only knock down open jump shots, but ALSO attack the basket! It's always been one or the other... or neither.

[MrBug708]

Hell of a game. Kobe's back was hurting in the second half and he shouldn't have been shooting as much because Gasol and Odom were tearing it up. On the flip side, Lakers couldnt stop Deron Williams

[miami_fan]

This home court advantage thing sort of means something huh?

[INDalltheway]

I really hope someone else just saw LeBron's dunk.. That was the perfect exclamation point.

[Groundhog]

The NBA should just save us all some time and credit all remaining home teams with the victory for the rest of the playoffs!

Congratulations to the LA Lakers, winners over the Boston Celtics 4-2!

[Big Fo]

I really hope someone else just saw LeBron's dunk.. That was the perfect exclamation point.

Yeah, that was sick.

I don't think either of these teams will beat Detroit, if it weren't for Dallas last year I'd say the Celtics are the worst 66+ win team in league history.

[Brian Swartz]

The NBA should just save us all some time and credit all remaining home teams with the victory for the rest of the playoffs!

Congratulations to the LA Lakers, winners over the Boston Celtics 4-2!

Wouldn't that be Boston 4, LA 3?
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Mantle2600]

The NBA should just save us all some time and credit all remaining home teams with the victory for the rest of the playoffs!

Congratulations to the LA Lakers, winners over the Boston Celtics 4-2!

I thought I heard the Celtics would have homecourt throughout the playoffs?

[Mantle2600]

Yeah, that was sick.

I don't think either of these teams will beat Detroit, if it weren't for Dallas last year I'd say the Celtics are the worst 66+ win team in league history.

Yeah because we could'nt beat Detroit last year either.:rolleyes:

[Groundhog]

OK, same diff. :P

[Eaglesfan27]

I really hope someone else just saw LeBron's dunk.. That was the perfect exclamation point.


Yeah, that was a great dunk. I don't know what I was thinking the other day. I guess I was thinking his jump shooting is too poor, but he clearly belongs in the tier with Kobe and Duncan. This will be amazing if he pulls off this series against the Celtics.

[DaddyTorgo]

C's fucking gave this game away in the 4th quarter - they went away from Garnett in the block and settled for contested crap-shots and lost control of the game.

[Noop]

I thought LeBron played the way I felt he should be playing beat that first guy and dish it to the guys attacking the basket, 13 assists shows me that if they continue running this on the Celtics they will beat them 4-2.

[DaddyTorgo]

I thought LeBron played the way I felt he should be playing beat that first guy and dish it to the guys attacking the basket, 13 assists shows me that if they continue running this on the Celtics they will beat them 4-2.

they gotta win a game in boston first

[Noop]

they gotta win a game in boston first

If they play the way they did tonight they will win in 6.

[Big Fo]

Yeah because we could'nt beat Detroit last year either.:rolleyes:

Detroit has really stepped it up since their slow start against Philadelphia, they were really impressive beating Orlando in game four without Billups. They'll likely have plenty of rest as I don't expect my Magic to get a win tomorrow night and just feel they're not going to be denied this season after being upset by Miami and Cleveland in the conference finals these past few years.

[DaddyTorgo]

If they play the way they did tonight they will win in 6.

I don't think so.

[Noop]

I don't think so.

Of course you don't think so.

As for Detroit versus Cleveland(should they get pass the Celtics) if LeBron takes it to the stratosphere then I don't think Detroit can beat them. However if LeBron plays like his normal self I think Detroit beats them in 6.

[stevew]

I really expect nothing out of the Cavs this year, but getting back into this series has pleasantly suprised me. I didn't get to see tonights game, but I've heard that Brown is finally starting to make some adjustments.

[Mantle2600]

I think it's very possible Detroit could beat us if we can get past the Celtics, I'm just sick of everyone saying "can't beat Detroit". We did last year and we took them to 7 games the year before that.

By the way according to that logic, we're not gonna beat the Celtics either because a couple people said so.

And we could'nt beat the Wizards because a couple people said so. (Actually it was probaly just that fat one.)

[Mantle2600]

I really expect nothing out of the Cavs this year, but getting back into this series has pleasantly suprised me. I didn't get to see tonights game, but I've heard that Brown is finally starting to make some adjustments.

It was a great 4 quarter game, no 24 points in 1 quarter followed up by 9 or whatever it was in game 2.

[Jas_lov]

So Cleveland wins two games at home and everyone gives up on the Celtics, the best team in the league. The Cavs have to win one in Boston before I write the Celtics off. In three of the series, the team with home court advantage has lost 2 straight but they're all still in control until they lose a game at home. I hope all 3 series go the full 7 games.

[Groundhog]

So Cleveland wins two games at home and everyone gives up on the Celtics, the best team in the league. The Cavs have to win one in Boston before I write the Celtics off. In three of the series, the team with home court advantage has lost 2 straight but they're all still in control until they lose a game at home. I hope all 3 series go the full 7 games.

The Cavs will have to win the next game in Boston before I write the Celtics off, but I'd like to see the Celtics win at least one game on the road SOMEWHERE if they are to be considered a legit threat. Two losses at both Cleveland and Atlanta looks pretty bad.

[molson]

If they play the way they did in the last 3 minutes they will win in 6.

Fixed

[Brian Swartz]

So Cleveland wins two games at home and everyone gives up on the Celtics, the best team in the league. The Cavs have to win one in Boston before I write the Celtics off. In three of the series, the team with home court advantage has lost 2 straight but they're all still in control until they lose a game at home. I hope all 3 series go the full 7 games.

Writing them off is not the same as saying they are in trouble. All three of the teams that have lost two straight are in trouble to some degree or another, and not just because they lost two straight on the road. Boston's shown that they still don't have much of an offensive identity and Doc Rivers can't stop tinkering with the rotation patterns for no apparent reason. That plus not having won a game on the road yet makes you wonder if they can beat Cleveland, because if they keep playing this way all it takes is LeBron shooting well either Game 5 or Game 7 in Boston.

The Lakers are probably fine IF Kobe's back is fine, but there's a lot of doubt about that and they are struggling with the Jazz on the boards. Meanwhile New Orleans is probably in the most trouble, as they don't appear to have a good answer for the Spurs putting Bowen on Stojakovic, David West has shown some composure issues, and Duncan appears to be back to full health, none of which are good for them no matter how flat-out awesome Chris Paul plays.

Boils down to the fact that a team that wins the first two games of the series is generally able to steal one on the road and close it out relatively quickly. The fact that none of them have been able to do that(excluding Detroit) is a cause for concern in all three cases by itself.

Oh, and Boston having the best regular-season record absolutely does not mean they are the best team in the NBA. It's pretty hard to argue that they've looked like the best team, or even looked like a team ready to win a title, based on their playoff performance thus far.

Just to put my money where my mouth is, I see Cleveland and Detroit in the East, San Antonio and LA in the West. I think David Stern's worst nightmare is the most likely scenario: San Antonio and Detroit with possible depression counseling required for ABC programming executives.

[rkmsuf]

The C's should just drop out now. What a joke they are. And Doc Rivers has to be one of the worst coaches in the league. Find me someone with a lower basketball IQ. I don't think you can.

When the Cavs backups manhandle Garnett and he can't score one on one at all it's time to pack it in. And Paul Pierce should either be moved or retire after the season. His game is deteriorating faster than a speeding bullet.

[Noop]

The C's should just drop out now. What a joke they are. And Doc Rivers has to be one of the worst coaches in the league. Find me someone with a lower basketball IQ. I don't think you can.

When the Cavs backups manhandle Garnett and he can't score one on one at all it's time to pack it in. And Paul Pierce should either be moved or retire after the season. His game is deteriorating faster than a speeding bullet.

http://nyc.metblogs.com/archives/images/2007/01/George-Costanza.JPG

[rkmsuf]

George IS getting upset.

[hoopsguy]

I've heard that Brown is finally starting to make some adjustments.

This is a massive condemnation of Doc Rivers - that he is getting outcoached by Brown. No, not Larry Brown. Mike Brown. Wow.

I think this is worse than anything that Simmons has said about Doc up to this point in time.

[rkmsuf]

Charlie Rosen is pretty much the man. I encourage you to read his stuff if you don't already.

-----------------------------------------------

LeBron rises, Celtics shrink in fourth quarterby Charley Rosen
Charley Rosen is FOXSports.com's NBA analyst and author of 14 books about hoops, the current one being No Blood, No Foul.

Updated: May 13, 2008, 12:03 AM EST 47 comments add this RSS blog email print Game Time: Cavaliers 88, Celtics 77

Another away-from-home gut check for the Celtics resulted in still another throw-up performance.

2008 NBA playoffs



The responsibility for Boston's fifth consecutive road loss was equally divided between the hometown heroes and the road wimps.

Here's the breakdown:


Cleveland

The Cavs effectively countered Boston's screen/rolls with a switch-and-swarm defense that held the Celts to 38.6 percent shooting.

Except for a couple of lapses by Ben Wallace early in the game, the baseline rotations of the Cavs' big men were right on time.

Indeed, the only defensive liability for Cleveland was Sasha Pavlovic, who was repeatedly abused by Paul Pierce.

On offense, LeBron continued his shooting woes — 2-13 from mid-range and beyond — but when the game was on the line late in the fourth quarter, he nailed an 18-footer, then bulled his way to a resounding dunker. Overall, LBJ was 7-20, 13 assists, three steals, two blocks, four turnovers, and 21 points. Not quite a super-human effort, but good enough to totally control the end-game.

Ben Wallace made a couple of hustling plays on defense, but was otherwise invisible.

Zydrunas Ilguaskas — 3-10, seven rebounds, two assists, nine points — was another non-factor.

Wally Szczerbiak was solid early — 6-11, 14 points — and managed to play adequate position defense.

Daniel Gibson — 5-9, six rebounds, four assists, 14 points — killed the Celtics by turning kick-back passes from LeBron into swishes.

Delonte West got poked in the eye and had a rather subdued game — 3-8, one assist, two turnovers, six points — but right out of the gate he repeatedly got into the middle against Rajon Rondo and made a couple of sensational buckets that helped the Cavs get off the mark.

Anderson Varejao — 6-8, six rebounds, 12 points — was a stand-up defender, and even hit a jump shot.

The Cavs shot 45.5 percent primarily because the Celtics' defense routinely overreacted when LeBron threatened to power his way into the paint. On several such sequences, the Celtics surrounded with him with all five defenders. No wonder Cleveland wound up with so many uncontested perimeter shots.

Here's an obscure stat to ponder: In the Cavs' half-court sets, LBJ received 40 passes when he was stationary and only seven passes when he was in motion. Subtracting the shots that he took (1-3), James wound up cashing in four of his dimes after he caught the ball on the move.
In any case, it was the Cavs' nasty defense coupled with the Celtics' powder-puff offense that won the game.


Paul Pierce and the Celtics are now 0-5 on the road in the playoffs. (Gregory Shamus / Getty Images)


Boston
Except for a couple of weaves that turned into either handoffs or reverse cuts that generated good looks for Ray Allen, Boston was never able to get into any kind of rhythm on offense.


With their S/Rs smothered, they frequently over-handled and had to resort to individual efforts. That's why the Celts managed only 16 assists on 27 baskets to the Cavs' 24 and 35.

Pierce was AWOL — 6-17, 13 points — forcing a number of shots and missing a couple of layups.

Ray Allen ran himself to daylight only on a limited basis — 4-10, three assists, 15 points — and did a poor job on defense, particularly when he was supposed to be tracking Wally World around weak-side screens.

Rajon Rondo was the most energetic of the Celts — 7-14, four assists, two steals, three turnovers, 15 points — and even made half of his eight jumpers. But Rondo also forced several shots and made at least a half-dozen poor decisions with the ball.

Sam Cassell — 0-5, 4 points — was a minus at both ends of the court.

Then there's Kevin Garnett — 6-13, 10 rebounds, four assists, 15 points. He posted up five times and attacked the basket only once — a hard drive that suddenly turned into a fadeaway, contact-avoiding flip shot that badly missed. In the fourth quarter, KG was 0-2. During the two losses in Cleveland, Garnett has exposed himself as being strictly a finesse player who leads the league in fakes-per-shot.
What must the Celtics do to protect their home-court advantage in Game 5?



Try Tony Allen behind Rondo at the point.

Set up screens on both boxes and run Ray Allen through snake routes a la Rip Hamilton.

Post Pierce against LBJ.

Get KG the ball at the foul line so that he can't be doubled, and where he can maximize his quickness. And encourage Garnett to attack the basket, take the resulting hits and get to the stripe.

Get more ball- and player-movement into the offense, and implement more alignments where the ball can be reversed.

Maintain more defensive balance when LeBron drives by sending only one helper and staying in touch with the likes of Gibson, Szczerbiak and West.
If the Celtics think that the Cavs will automatically go belly-up in Boston, then their season won't survive the weekend.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8132576/LeBron-rises,-Celtics-shrink-in-fourth-quarter

[Arles]

I think this might be the postseason that shows Garnett would not have been the same as Tim Duncan had he been in SA instead of Minnesota (like many KG fan's have insinuated). KG is a nice player, hard worker and good teammate. But, none of that changes the fact he doesn't have it in his DNA to be "The Man" in crunch time like Kobe and Duncan.

For Boston to win, Pierce needs to carry them as he's the only guy who both wants to and is capable of doing so. Cassel and Ray Allen want to (but aren't capable) while KG is capable (but doesn't seem to want to).

[stevew]

KG's an overrated Baby. Always has been, always will be.

[BishopMVP]

With all this negativity, anyone want to make a sig bet on the Celtics winning Game 5? I'm sorry, but they didn't look any worse losing Games 3 and 4 in Cleveland, particularly Game 4 which was practically tied until the last 3 minutes than they did losing Games 3, 4 and 6 in Atlanta. And we all saw them blowout the Hawks Games 5 and 7 at home, just like they did the Cavs in Game 2.

[Jas_lov]

I doubt they'll put their money where their mouth is. I think the Celtics win game 5 and the series. It's up to the higher seed to win on the road and prove they can win the series, not the other way around. If Kobe is healthy, the Lakers will win game 5 and the series. Hornets-Spurs is a little more difficult to predict, but until the team with home court loses at home they're not in trouble.

[Scoobz0202]

Garnett is having a better series then Lebron. And yet Lebron is still getting all the praise. I definitely don't think Garnett is overrated.

[Brian Swartz]

From a shooting point-of-view Garnett's having a great series and LeBron a horrible one. From any other point of view LeBron is having a far superior series, and I think it's clear to anyone watching the games he's having a far greater impact. Cleveland's defense has not had to react much to KG, while Boston's is set to deny LeBron, opening up opportunities for others. And of course KG's disappearing act in the fourth quarter is a huge difference as compared to LeBron trying to be a closer(and succeeding in one of the two close games).

Take LeBron off Cleveland and KG off Boston, and it's not hard to see it wouldn't be 2-2 at this point.

[molson]

Reading these comments you'd think the Celtics were down 3-1 at this point. Were they even favored in games 3 & 4? If so, it couldn't have been by much.

The real question is whether Cleveland can win in Boston, not the other way around.

The Celtics are in trouble once/if the Cavs steal a game in Boston, until then, they're still in control here.

[rkmsuf]

With all this negativity, anyone want to make a sig bet on the Celtics winning Game 5? I'm sorry, but they didn't look any worse losing Games 3 and 4 in Cleveland, particularly Game 4 which was practically tied until the last 3 minutes than they did losing Games 3, 4 and 6 in Atlanta. And we all saw them blowout the Hawks Games 5 and 7 at home, just like they did the Cavs in Game 2.

Cavs are a shit team. Losing even two games to them is a failure. Never mind losing 3 to Atlanta.

[molson]

Cavs are a shit team. Losing even two games to them is a failure. Never mind losing 3 to Atlanta.

At what point is just winning a playoff series enough? Is their season a failure if they won the championship but needed 7 games in every series?

[Neon_Chaos]

I'll wait until either the Jazz or the Cavs win away before pressing the "oh shit, they're in trouble" button for either the Lakers or the Celtics.

The Spurs, on the other hand... might look like they're down and out, but they're resilient bastards.

[rkmsuf]

At what point is just winning a playoff series enough? Is their season a failure if they won the championship but needed 7 games in every series?

of course not. you really think that's where the C's fortune is headed based on the basketball played in their two series so far?

detroit figures to wipe the floor with them at this point if they get out of the cavs series.

they couldn't win a single game in ATLANTA. that's embarrassing. Now Wally and Delonte West look like superstars. that's embarrassing.

[BishopMVP]

Cavs are a shit team. Losing even two games to them is a failure. Never mind losing 3 to Atlanta.Agreed, and Doc is a terrible coach, KG isn't assertive enough and Sam Cassell has been a huge negative. Doesn't change my main point that this "Cavs in 6" shit is ridiculous. Home teams are now 17-1 this round, and the one was a 1-pt victory at the buzzer. I don't know why, but it seems this year is even worse for home/road disparity - NO/SA for example are blowing each other out at home and losing by 20+ on the road. The Celtics are probably going to win tonight, and there's probably a 50/50 chance it will be by double digits.

[LloydLungs]

I don't know why, but it seems this year is even worse for home/road disparity - NO/SA for example are blowing each other out at home and losing by 20+ on the road.

It is definitely worse this year. Honestly it's puzzling to me. Home court advantage should be marginally lessened in the playoffs -- I think the grind of the regular season, the back-to-backs, the jetlag, etc are a big factor in HCA, but you don't have that stuff in the playoffs. You get to settle in a city, no back-to-backs... it seems like the crowd is the biggest factor left, and it's hard to understand how professional athletes can be that rattled by crowds. The Hornets-Spurs series is insane. You're talking about literally 40+ point swings depending on the location of the court they're playing on. It's like there's no point in trying to analyze these games this year. Just pick the home team and be done with it.

[rkmsuf]

I'll give a pass to the west teams losing on the road. They are actually playing good teams in their buildings. Celtics have faced two junk teams and even those junk teams aren't playing particularly well. Look what happens when Detroit faces a lousy team. They win in 5 and don't even need their best player.

[molson]

of course not. you really think that's where the C's fortune is headed based on the basketball played in their two series so far?



Unlike Detroit, the Celtics haven't lost a game at home or trailed in a series yet. Their playoff point differential is also better than the Pistons'.

The question is why they suck so much on the road right now after having the best road record in the NBA in the regular season. Maybe there's something to it, maybe it's just a small sample size. But they've barely been challenged at home. It's an issue, but hardly a fatal one until someone wins in Boston.

[korme]

I'll be the first to say it...

Spurs in 7 (over NOH)

[rkmsuf]

Unlike Detroit, the Celtics haven't lost a game at home or trailed in a series yet. Their playoff point differential is also better than the Pistons'.

The question is why they suck so much on the road right now after having the best road record in the NBA in the regular season. They've barely been challenged at home. It's an issue, but hardly a fatal one until someone wins in Boston.

Please stop with the point differential nonsense.

[molson]

Please stop with the point differential nonsense.

Winning by blowout isn't more impressive than winning a close game?

[rkmsuf]

Winning by blowout isn't more impressive than winning a close game?

Judging by the two C's series the answer is clearly NO.

[molson]

Cavs are a shit team. Losing even two games to them is a failure. Never mind losing 3 to Atlanta.

Was it a failure for the Pistons then to lose two games to the marginally-better 76ers, including one in their own building?

I don't disagree that the Celtics are in trouble, it just seems strange to write off the team with home court advantage when they've dominated at home.

[rkmsuf]

Was it a failure for the Pistons then to lose two games to the marginally-better 76ers, including one in their own building?

I don't disagree that the Celtics are in trouble, it just seems strange to write off the team with home court advantage when they've dominated at home.

Yes but then they beat the Magic in five games.

[MikeVic]

Without the heart of their team.

[larrymcg421]

I love that people have already forgotten that KG hit two clutch shots and LeBron missed a layup at the end of game one. Three games later and we've determiend that LeBron is clutch and KG is not because LeBron helped his team win two home games.

[MikeVic]

I just want to see a good, exciting, close finals. I thought Boston from the East or a crazy-powered LeBron would be the only way. Now that both the East and West have these home-court shenanigans and Boston isn't tearing through the East, it makes me less excited for the finals.

[Groundhog]

LeBron with a couple of early makes. Good sign for Cavs fans.

[Noop]

I like that LeBron is being aggressive to the hole. He has been to the line three times so far...

[MrBug708]

Good win the Lakers

[Neon_Chaos]

Lakers baby! Whooooooo.

[BishopMVP]

Lebron had 23 1st half, KG took 18-footers, Pierce's game is deteriorating faster than a speeding bullet, and, oh wait C's are up 3-2. See you guys late friday night once we lose again so we can talk about how bad the Celtics are before they win game 7.

[Brian Swartz]

Good grief. The point isn't that Boston is a horrible team. They aren't. Nobody left is. The point is that they are drastically underachieiving, and that they are not displaying championship characteristics. I.e., that they are playing like maybe the fifth or sixth best team in the league, not a dominant one. When their own coach says they need to be better under stress, that should lend some credibility to this, no?

I love that people have already forgotten that KG hit two clutch shots and LeBron missed a layup at the end of game one. Three games later and we've determiend that LeBron is clutch and KG is not because LeBron helped his team win two home games.

Eh, actually it's more to the point that KG didn't want anything to do with the ball and did pretty much nothing of substance in Game Four(0-2, 1 reb in the 4th Q). Meanwhile in game 1 LeBron did miss a shot he should have made(a lot of them in fact). He was ready and willing to take those shots though. Garnett usually shrinks from them. Not hard to fathom the difference between the two.

It is definitely worse this year. Honestly it's puzzling to me. Home court advantage should be marginally lessened in the playoffs -- I think the grind of the regular season, the back-to-backs, the jetlag, etc are a big factor in HCA, but you don't have that stuff in the playoffs. You get to settle in a city, no back-to-backs... it seems like the crowd is the biggest factor left, and it's hard to understand how professional athletes can be that rattled by crowds. The Hornets-Spurs series is insane. You're talking about literally 40+ point swings depending on the location of the court they're playing on. It's like there's no point in trying to analyze these games this year. Just pick the home team and be done with it.

This misses a few points. One, San Antonio has led all three games in NO at the half. The Hornets are winning because they have been physical with the Spurs and are as tough mentally as they are, which is not a combination SA sees often, to put it mildly. Game 3 was tight well into the fourth quarter. It's easy to look at the final score and say blowout, no contest for the home team but only Game 4 in the five games so far has been that way prior to halftime. Last time out, San Antonio just absolutely could not hit a shot in the third quarter, and that had a lot to do with it.

It's not so much the crowd this year as it is evenly matched teams and the familiarity with the environment, etc.

[rkmsuf]

The C's should just forfeit game 6.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't know how people can watch the NBA. The last 1:05 of the Cavaliers-Celtics game took 14 minutes to elapse. I turned the game on with that 1:05 on the clock and I told my wife I'd be in bed in a few minutes. Sure, I expected it to take maybe 5 minutes or so, but it took 14 minutes to run 65 seconds off the clock.

By comparison, the final 2:30 of the Red Wings-Stars hockey game took less time, and that was with a timeout, two penalties, and the puck going out of play at least once.

I've seen college basketball games in which the final 1:05 took only 1:04 to complete. I've been to a 3 Doors Down concert that was over in less than 14 minutes. When I was in fifth grade, I made out with one of my teachers and got myself pregnant in only 12 minutes.

Screw the NBA.

[Fidatelo]

My brother has long maintained that there is no point in watching the first 46 minutes of an NBA game, and for the most part I agree.

[Pumpy Tudors]

My brother has long maintained that there is no point in watching the first 46 minutes of an NBA game, and for the most part I agree.
I wouldn't be surprised if, minus the halftime show, the first 46 minutes of an NBA game took less than 14 minutes to play.

[LloydLungs]

This misses a few points. One, San Antonio has led all three games in NO at the half. The Hornets are winning because they have been physical with the Spurs and are as tough mentally as they are, which is not a combination SA sees often, to put it mildly. Game 3 was tight well into the fourth quarter. It's easy to look at the final score and say blowout, no contest for the home team but only Game 4 in the five games so far has been that way prior to halftime. Last time out, San Antonio just absolutely could not hit a shot in the third quarter, and that had a lot to do with it.

You definitely don't have to sell me on the Hornets, as I am a Hornets fan, but for me it's basically all about defense. It's true that game 3 was not a one-sided game, but that was due to an abnormally good offensive game from the Hornets given that Bruce Bowen has essentially removed Peja from the roster -- and given that the Hornets usually create offense from their defense. The Hornets have not played a single minute of decent defense in San Antonio. Conversely, they are swarming all over the place (sorry) in New Orleans. I'm just sort of wondering why that is.

I don't expect anything different tonight. I don't think they'll get wiped out a la game 4, but their defensive rotations will again slow down (because of the crowd I suppose, I dunno) and we'll be headed back to New Orleans for game 7. My big concern there is the puzzling THREE full off days between games (what the hell, NBA?) so the Spurs will have three days to rest up and sit around thinking about their third quarters. Don't know if it will make a difference, but it's definitely a concern.

[Brian Swartz]

The Hornets have not played a single minute of decent defense in San Antonio. Conversely, they are swarming all over the place (sorry) in New Orleans. I'm just sort of wondering why that is.

I guess I just don't agree with the premise here. Other than the initial burst of energy I haven't seen a whole lot of difference in the Hornets defensively(outside of the second half of Game Four). San Antonio made a lot of adjustments for Game Three offensively as well, and in Game 5 after the first few minutes NO's defense wasn't all that different than the games they played at SA. San Antonio just plain stopped making shots. They got a good amount of open shots in the third quarter of Game 5, pretty much the same ones they were making in Game 3. I really don't think it's any more complicated than that. A couple less layups maybe but not a major difference.

[Groundhog]

My brother has long maintained that there is no point in watching the first 46 minutes of an NBA game, and for the most part I agree.

This is one of those things that gets thrown around a lot about basketball in general.

Not surprisingly, I completely disagree. Why not have the NFL just play a college style OT period as the entire game? Why not have baseball matches last 1 inning? Cut straight to th epenalty shoot outs in soccer and hockey?

[Groundhog]

I don't know how people can watch the NBA. The last 1:05 of the Cavaliers-Celtics game took 14 minutes to elapse. I turned the game on with that 1:05 on the clock and I told my wife I'd be in bed in a few minutes. Sure, I expected it to take maybe 5 minutes or so, but it took 14 minutes to run 65 seconds off the clock.

By comparison, the final 2:30 of the Red Wings-Stars hockey game took less time, and that was with a timeout, two penalties, and the puck going out of play at least once.

I've seen college basketball games in which the final 1:05 took only 1:04 to complete. I've been to a 3 Doors Down concert that was over in less than 14 minutes. When I was in fifth grade, I made out with one of my teachers and got myself pregnant in only 12 minutes.

Screw the NBA.

This I do agree with. Basketball should not turn in to the NFL in the last minute, with coaches calling a time out to bring on a different lineup and draw up a different play each possession. I think teams get too many timeouts - should be 1 full TO and 1 20 sec TO per quarter in the NBA. Keep the TV timeouts that are unavoidable.

[Groundhog]

Well, I guess the good news for the Hornets is that the Spurs can't shoot 70% from the floor all game long...

[MrBug708]

Ouch

[Karlifornia]

I don't know how people can watch the NBA. The last 1:05 of the Cavaliers-Celtics game took 14 minutes to elapse. I turned the game on with that 1:05 on the clock and I told my wife I'd be in bed in a few minutes. Sure, I expected it to take maybe 5 minutes or so, but it took 14 minutes to run 65 seconds off the clock.

By comparison, the final 2:30 of the Red Wings-Stars hockey game took less time, and that was with a timeout, two penalties, and the puck going out of play at least once.

I've seen college basketball games in which the final 1:05 took only 1:04 to complete. I've been to a 3 Doors Down concert that was over in less than 14 minutes. When I was in fifth grade, I made out with one of my teachers and got myself pregnant in only 12 minutes.

Screw the NBA.

NBA bashing: It's what the cool kids are doing!

[wade moore]

Lebron is absurd.

[molson]

NBA bashing: It's what the cool kids are doing!

The two most hilarious criticisms of the NBA I've read in this thread so far are:

1. Home teams win too often.
2. real time isn't more evenly distributed throughout the game time.

[Noop]

This has been some pretty $h!tty basketball. I am all for a good defensive game once in a while but this series is something else.

[molson]

KG actually looked nervous to take that shot

[Young Drachma]

Doc Rivers...please pick up the white courtesy phone.

[Noop]

Looks like Cleveland is ready to give this game away.

[Noop]

And the Celtics are playing hot potato apparently.

[Noop]

So why did they wait so long to foul? Every second counts numb nutts.

[molson]

I wonder if Lebron has ever been called for a blocking foul.

[DaddyTorgo]

I wonder if Lebron has ever been called for a blocking foul.

nope. that was fucking bullshit. Fucking homer call.

[Noop]

Unless we have a Reggie Miller'est performance in the last 14.4 seconds looks like Boston will be 0 for 6 on the road for the playoffs.

[Noop]

Maybe you guys aren't the most objectionably in this matter...maybe.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe you guys aren't the most objectionably in this matter...maybe.

he was moving sideways and wasn't planted. Even the espn announcers said that

[molson]

Maybe you guys aren't the most objectionably in this matter...maybe.

No, but do you think that was a charge? Or that Allen was goaltended? Or that Smith traveled?

[Noop]

I most have missed that.

[molson]

Don't get me wrong, the C's still sucked down the stretch once again. But that's a tough trio of calls in the last 90 seconds.

[Noop]

No, but do you think that was a charge? Or that Allen was goaltended? Or that Smith traveled?

Charge didn't see. Goaltend according to the rules I guess. Travel? I have only seen that called against the Celtics.

[stevew]

The charge could have gone either way, but Pierce is such a pussy boy drama queen, so fuck him. He instigated that contact when his shoulders weren't square to the defender. He was playing out of control. I've seen that one called a ton on the offensive player, including several times against LeBron in these playoffs.

Yeah, that was probably goaltending, although it hit the side of the glass and I'm not sure that means the same as if it hits the front of the glass. It very well may. I think West got that one on the way up or at its peak.

Probably a travel.

[stevew]

he was moving sideways and wasn't planted. Even the espn announcers said that

That's not the whole criteria to determine whether or not something is an offensive foul. It may be bad judgement on the refs part, but it has been called pretty liberally for awhile now. Good defensive positioning will sometimes draw an offensive foul even if your feet aren't set. And pierce lunged there, which can also lead to an offensive foul.

[wade moore]

That's not the whole criteria to determine whether or not something is an offensive foul. It may be bad judgement on the refs part, but it has been called pretty liberally for awhile now. Good defensive positioning will sometimes draw an offensive foul even if your feet aren't set. And pierce lunged there, which can also lead to an offensive foul.Yeah, I thought Pierce lowering his shoulder was the key.

[MrBug708]

Lakers playing well

[Chief Rum]

No, but do you think that was a charge? Or that Allen was goaltended? Or that Smith traveled?

A charge? No. An offensive foul? Possibly--he drove in with his shoulder down.

Goaltended? Technically, yes, but only by the letter of the law. That ball wasn't going to end up anywhere near the hoop. But, called straight, yes, that should have been two points.

I missed the Smith play, but I only caught the last few minutes, and that was without sound.

I think the C's are going to win going away on Sunday.

[MrBug708]

C'mon Lakers...Hold On...

[MrBug708]

Good Lord

[Neon_Chaos]

WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Western Conference Finals!

[MrBug708]

Holy Crap that was nerveracking

[rjolley]

I thought the Pierce/Lebron call was poor. Looked like Lebron reached in to go for the steal and initiated the contact. Didn't appear Pierce was out of control, more like he was doing what perimeter players, including Lebron, usually do, put their head down and try to get to the rim. Thought Lebron got the advantage with the reach and the foul should've been defensive.

The travel by Garnett in the paint was valid. Not sure which one you're talking about on Smith...unless the one on Garnett was actually on Smith.

The non-call on the goaltend was the right call. I don't think the side of the backboard counts as the backboard in the context of a goaltend.

Thought the C's were going to pull it off. Pierce and Allen struggled to make shots. Back to Boston. Should be a good game on Sunday.

[Mantle2600]

Pierce hit LBJ alot harder on that call than Bron was hitting Pierce on his charges, so cry me a river. Even if it's not called it does'nt mean the Celtics would have won the game. If their so better then it's time to put up or shut up.

[MrBug708]

As a Lakers fan, I'm not sure who I want in the next round. Spurs are aging but are battle tested and the Lakers have some unfinished business with them. The Hornets are young and dangerous but this is very unfamiliar ground for them

[Neon_Chaos]

Bring on the Hornets. I'd rather see either the Lakers or NO to advance to the finals than the Spurs again. :)

[Neon_Chaos]

Bug, as a fellow Kobeliever, did you even imagine that the Lakers would be where they are at this point in the season?

:D

[MrBug708]

Preseason? No. What Kobe has done (and Jerry West this year for us :)) has been nothing short of amazing. Kobe's numbers were very similiar to some of Jordan's numbers when they were winning championships instead of playing for themselves. :)

[miami_fan]

Holy Crap that was nerveracking

They did not get the memo that they were suppose to quit when they were down by 16 going into the 4th.

[MrBug708]

I think they missed the memo where they were not suppose to make 5 of 7 from the three with under 2 minutes to play

[stevew]

Jazz got 2 good looks at the end, I guess that's all the more you can hope for.

The Ray Allen shot could not have been goaltending since there was no chance of it going in. That's according to the rules.

The Cavs should have closed this one out already, they blew 2 games in Boston thus far. Hopefully they get their shit together, and play all 48 minutes on sunday.

[Noop]

The Cavs should have closed this one out already, they blew 2 games in Boston thus far. Hopefully they get their shit together, and play all 48 minutes on sunday.

Careful now... some people might think your talking out your bottom.

[stevew]

I think they blew 1 and 5, granted it's to be expected with our dumbass coach and questionable rotation.

[Noop]

Well looks like the Celtics came to play.

[Noop]

Perkins for the Celtics might need to tone it down a bit. He seems like he is more interested in fighting then he is in playing basketball.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I wish they had decided to play the basketball game later tonight. I like hockey more than I like basketball, so I'm watching that instead. I'd love to watch a game 7, though, and I'm missing it.

If game 5 is any indication, however, the final couple of minutes in Boston will take several hours, so I should have plenty of time to see the end of it once hockey's over.

Seriously, I do hope that I get to see the end of game 7, and I hope it's an entertaining game by that point.

[SirFozzie]

James and Pierce are going at it like 'Nique and Bird in game 7 so far.

The only question is can the Cavs have someone, anyone pick things up?

[Noop]

The Celtics have been in control this whole game and to be honest I would be surprised if they lost this game with 9:37 left to go in the 4th quarter.

[molson]

James and Pierce are going at it like 'Nique and Bird in game 7 so far.



Lebron's missing WAY more shots than 'Nique did that game.

[SirFozzie]

Wow. Refs COMPLETELY missed it there. That was awful

[Radii]

The Celtics have been in control this whole game and to be honest I would be surprised if they lost this game with 9:37 left to go in the 4th quarter.

even after Lebron hit those two three pointers I still have this same feeling.

[SirFozzie]

I get the same feeling Nique gave me way back when every time James has the ball.

[molson]

When did the Flagrant Foul rule rule change? I don't remember announcers constantly yelling about it until recently.

[molson]

even after Lebron hit those two three pointers I still have this same feeling.

Unfortunately, I'm getting the feeling the Celtics players feel that way too.

[SirFozzie]

If you told me P.J. Brown was going to take a key shot with just over a minute to play, I would tell you I want Doc Rivers fired... or beheaded. (ok, kidding about the beheading)

[Radii]

If the Cavs leave him in the game, I would be fouling Ben Wallace at every opportunity now.

[SirFozzie]

And now I see the difference between James and 'Nique (Not much, but a difference)

[Noop]

If LeBron and his teammates weren't complaining for the foul they might have been able to foul someone other then Ray Allen who is money at the line.

[molson]

I think they blew 1 and 5, granted it's to be expected with our dumbass coach and questionable rotation.

The Celtics blew games 4 and 6. But it looks the Cavs will blow more games in the end.

[Noop]

LeBron James is a way better player then Wilkins ever was or could be...

[MrBug708]

Great decision by Lebron

[molson]

LeBron James is a way better player then Wilkins ever was or could be...

Very true, but I think there's been a little too much praise for him in a series where he's shooting 32%.

HE blew this series for Cleveland with his shitty shooting, and that's not the media line for whatever reason.

[Noop]

The Celtics are a team of fortune.

[larrymcg421]

Same decision he got criticized for last year against Detroit. The only difference is his guy made the shot this time.