A good article for you single lonely people out there.

[Flasch186]

Ive tried to explain this same thing to single lonely friends of mine but this lady said it pretty concisely IMO, now if only my friends would do this instead of whining about the girl who wont hook up with them, or chasing girls ALL the time, etc.

http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/datingtips/85967/dating-secret-exposed-why-nice-guys-finish-last;_ylc=X3oDMTRtc21iZW9sBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMjAyMzQzNDQ4OQRrA0RhdGluZyBTZWNyZXQgRXhwb3NlZCAtIFdoeSBOaWNlIEd1eXMgRmluaXNoIExhc3QEc2VjA2ZwX3RvZGF5BHNsawNkYXRpbmctc2VjcmV0IC1leHBvc2VkIC0gd2h5LW5pY2UgLWd1eXMtZmluaXNoLWxhc3QEenoDYQ--


Are you a nice guy who has always wondered why the cocky guy -- the one who barely appears interested in the girl -- is usually the one who gets the girl?
Have you suffered from hearing the words, "You're a really nice guy, but I only like you as a friend," from a woman who you would do (or may, in fact, have already done) just about anything and everything for -- only to turn around and watch her date (or even chase) a guy who treats her like she's nothing special? And are you stumped wondering why she would date a guy who treats her like that when she could have you who would treat her like a princess and give her everything she wants? Well, you better brace yourself because I'm going to tell you a couple of secrets that you might not want to hear.
First, "nice" equates with boring and predictable. Look up "nice" in the dictionary and you find: pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory. In other words, average -- not exceptional, not exciting, and not sexy.I'll bet you've never heard a woman say she didn't want to date a guy because he was too confident, too passionate, or too exciting -- have you? But, I'll bet you have heard women say things like, "He's such a nice guy. He's so sweet and he's always there for me, but I only like him as a friend." Or, "He's such a good guy -- kind, thoughtful, generous, honest, loyal -- but there's no chemistry. He just doesn't turn me on." Sadly, I hear it all the time. The fact is, Mr. Nice Guy, you cannot bore a woman into feeling attracted to you or into wanting to date you. And as obvious as that sounds, if you are one of those guys I described that is exactly what you are trying to do. And it won't work.
Please understand that I am not suggesting that you mistreat women or disrespect them in any way.
“What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more.”
What I suggesting is that you value and respect yourself more.
To illustrate what I mean: The answer to the question, "Why does the guy who doesn't appear to care as much about the girl get the girl?" is simple: The nice guy cares too much, too soon. He has made the woman too important and too valuable and it shows in everything he says and does. He is too available, too eager to please, too accommodating, and he gives too much -- all without getting anything in return. By doing so, he has made himself appear desperate, insecure, needy of this woman's attention, affection, and approval -- and he has stripped himself of any value in her eyes. After all, if he's already doing and giving everything, without her doing or giving anything - why would she value him? She won't. She is not going to value him any more than he values himself. What she is going to do is look for someone else, someone who she perceives as being more worthy, more confident, and more valuable.
It works like this:
“Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation.”
Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation. You are in a position of weakness and you are perceived as weak. Someone (or something) else is in control of you, the situation, and it's outcome. Men in this situation appear to be anything but confident, strong, and exciting. More, they are perceived as being unworthy and as lacking value.
Translation: Things that are easily acquired, obtained, or maintained, without any effort or sacrifice, lack value... it's human nature.
The secret to why the cocky guy wins with women, over the nice guy, is that he is perceived as being a stronger, more confident guy with more value. How? He never invests everything -- his entire being, ego, and self-worth in what one woman's response or reaction to him is. He doesn't gush with compliments; he isn't always available; he doesn't give too much; and he knows he isn't going to die if a woman says "no" to him. More, his attitude is, yeah, I'd like to go out with you, but if I can't, that's OK -- I'm a busy guy, with exciting things going on, and lots of other options.

edit - changed the title to 'people' since this probably works for girls to, I guess. although, I dig 'em kinda trashy....well at least when my wife dresses kind of trashy....grrrrrr, I love that.

[Blade6119]

Horns Maniac returns?

[Zelig]

Dell Computer stock goes through the roof!

[Flasch186]

Well this article ought to be called the Schuman article. It was appropriate after listening to the whining bastard talk about his loneliness and the only girls he gets are druggies (this one in particular was stealing the drugs from her sick mom to sell).

His desperation was actually nauseating....I have a weak stomach.

[DaddyTorgo]

neh

[DaddyTorgo]

whatever - you always hear that this is what's going on, so either it's true, or everyone is buying into the same theory crafted by one person way back when.

unfortunately it's not the easiest thing to just change oneself. And moreover, some people aren't willing to change themselves simply in order to attract someone else.

[Flasch186]

ACTING!....until youve sold it to yourself.

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/images/news/0719lovitz.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

ACTING!....until youve sold it to yourself.

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/images/news/0719lovitz.jpg

eh?

[Flasch186]

Jon Lovitz. SNL, although that picture seems older than his heyday.

You have to be able to "fake it until you make it".

[DaddyTorgo]

yes I got that. Don't get how it relates though...are you suggesting that one just "act" that way in order to get the girl?

because if so I submit to you that my life is way too much short and that takes way too much energy and isn't worth it.

[jeff061]

I just act uninterested and indifferent. Then I forget to stop.

[Flasch186]

not acting for the girl, "acting" like you "love yourself" per se, acting like you are "confident".......all for yourself.

What you'll find is that when you "act" confident youll make choices that lead to more succesfull results thus getting to the point where youre more confident because you actually are more confident.

Im just saying a person only need light the fuse, the rest could take care of itself.

this being said, I have mental issues of my own. Especially Anxiety (apparently). The older I get the moreso this Anxiety issue grows to be a problem.

[DaddyTorgo]

neh - that presupposes that there's something "wrong" or "undesireable" about being single also.

acting "for" myself? why should I act "for" myself? I love myself too much to "act" for myself, especially if the benefit is dubious.

love me for me or don't. I'm perfectly content with myself and with being single. I'm not going to put on a facade.

[Flasch186]

This thread wasn't directed at you but perhaps your assumption means something ;) . Mainly to Schuman but I dont think he even comes on here but there are probably lots of people just like him....for example, me, in High School.

And it's also those who are single and lonely, not single and content.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol oh I know it wasn't directed at me. I wasn't speaking me-me...i was speaking in the collective-me

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Mostly true.

I did very poorly with girls back in high school because I wanted to have a girlfriend. Once I got a little older and had other priorities I did very well. Once I started giving a damn again... not so much.

[korme]

i figured this out somewhere during high school. it's pretty spot on.

no girl is going to want the guy that is into them, it's just how it works.

[Chief Rum]

Yup, I agree with all this. I am currently single and happy as heck. My family calls me the self-affirming bachelor. :)

I enjoy my spare time, which is fleeting, and my money, which is not much, and frankly, a relationship cuts deeply into both. So it's really easy for me to appear disinterested. Because I am. A girl has to really knock my socks off to get my attention. ;)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Who the hell is Schuman?

[Flasch186]

an acquaintance.

[mrsimperless]

Yup, I agree with all this. I am currently single and happy as heck. My family calls me the self-affirming bachelor. :)

I enjoy my spare time, which is fleeting, and my money, which is not much, and frankly, a relationship cuts deeply into both. So it's really easy for me to appear disinterested. Because I am. A girl has to really knock my socks off to get my attention. ;)

+∞

This article addresses cocky nicely, but it fails to mention the merits of being funny.

[Buccaneer]

From my past experience as being a Mr. Nice Guy, I agree with the article.

[molson]

You're much better off being yourself and single than trying to act a certain way for some broad.

But when you're being yourself, and the opportunity arises...don't blow it.

[Grammaticus]

She could have said the same thing using half the words. That was a tedious read.

[Dr. Sak]

You're much better off being yourself and single than trying to act a certain way for some broad.

But when you're being yourself, and the opportunity arises...don't blow it.

Couldnt agree more my friend.

[Tigercat]

You're much better off being yourself and single than trying to act a certain way for some broad.


AGREED. If someone is a "nice guy" to a woman, I hope it is just because he is nice to everyone and it is just part of who he is.

And I will say, a "nice guy" can have passions, have a spine, and have patience, and still be crapped on because women will look past who you are, your passions, and WHY you are a nice guy and just see that you are "nice." (Kind of like a bizzarro version of seeing someone and just considering them a piece of ass.) And no interpersonal relationship can work if you aren't appreciated for who you really are instead of simply what you have to offer on the surface.

[Flasch186]

act a certain way for some broad.

But when you're being yourself, and the opportunity arises...don't blow it.

You should "act" a certain way for yourself (as I said above but maybe it was missed)...it's the only way it works (you have to focus on you) and then sooner or later the loneliness (that I said the audience would be) would go away without a woman first. The woman would come along because she wants to be a part of the self-assured confident you...

[Galaxy]

This girl calls herself hot?

[Flasch186]

that was my opinion

meh, on second look youre right, just average.

[Galaxy]

It looks like she's gone under the knife (or gotten botox).

[sterlingice]

Cocky and funny, got it :thumbsup:

SI

[Tigercat]

You should "act" a certain way for yourself (as I said above but maybe it was missed)...it's the only way it works (you have to focus on you) and then sooner or later the loneliness (that I said the audience would be) would go away without a woman first. The woman would come along because she wants to be a part of the self-assured confident you...

So basically you are saying that one should complete oneself before worrying about something else? No kidding! There are plenty of people IN relationships that could use the same suggestion.

I think for the author to suggest that those spurned in relationships that happen to be "nice" are mostly turned away because they are boring or extremely unspectacular people in general is an oversimplification and a terrific way to not be sympathetic to certain people.

[Flasch186]

So basically you are saying that one should complete oneself before worrying about something else? No kidding! There are plenty of people IN relationships that could use the same suggestion.


yes however there are many people who dont know how to do that so if she simplifies it into "acting" confident and self assured or "busy", perhaps it's a bit of a start that might help. I dunno, it worked for one friend of mine (AtJ) but Schuman hasn't adopted said theory.

[Mustang]

This girl calls herself hot?

She looks like Stiffler's Mom...

[Pumpy Tudors]

an acquaintance.
This isn't doing it for me. I still need to know who Schuman is.

[Cork]

So would a plain looking but self confident guy get the gal over a "nice" attractive guy?

-Cork

[Rizon]

So would a plain looking but self confident guy get the gal over a "nice" attractive guy?

-Cork

Only if he is an outlaw biker.

[Flasch186]

So would a plain looking but self confident guy get the gal over a "nice" attractive guy?

-Cork

Ive seen this a bunch! How many times have I said, "WTF is she doing with that guy?!" to myself of course.

[CraigSca]

Ive seen this a bunch! How many times have I said, "WTF is she doing with that guy?!" to myself of course.

I'm one of those guys. I'm also nice. Go figure.

[Neon_Chaos]

Agree to the article, being on both sides of the fence (pushover nice guy / indifferent guy), women just tend to respond better if your world doesn't revolve around them.

I guess attraction works the same way whichever side of the globe you're in.

[Neon_Chaos]

"Nice" is not the right word for it though. Being nice doesn't really equate to the undesirable attitude that the article is pertaining to.

Pushover would be a better word.

[RedKingGold]

Financial advisor, relationship consultant......what else can Flasch do? ;)

[CraigSca]

"Nice" is not the right word for it though. Being nice doesn't really equate to the undesirable attitude that the article is pertaining to.

Pushover would be a better word.

Yeah, I agree. I never really equated nice with being a pushover. Not sure if the article is taking creative license or if this is what really happens.

[Maple Leafs]

The premise of the article ("nice guys don't get girls") is clearly correct. I don't think anyone needed that explained.

But the explanation basically boils down to "women aren't interested in nice guys because nice guys don't interest them". Lots of insight there.

[Neon_Chaos]

Personally, I'd rather be myself and be confident in that and get a woman that responds to me than have to play games. Those women are out there, though perhaps fewer and further between. Perhaps this is why I don't date the same quantity of girls that other men my age do but am generally happier in my relationships than others as well.

I think that it is the best route to go.

What the article fails to mention is that these "nice" guys, often go out of their way and against who they really are to try and attract women by being readily available lap dogs, and that is what apparently is unattractive to the other person. It leads to complacency and boredom.

What I mean is that being yourself doesn't equate to being a pushover either.

[Passacaglia]

Artie Schuman? From Camp Hatchapee?

[chesapeake]

John Hughes can answer all of your relationship questions. By "nice," the writer means the "Duckie" syndrome. For those of you that recall Jon Cryer's character in Pretty in Pink, he is the proverbial nice guy who pines away for Molly Ringwald while she goes after another guy.

Duckie subverts his own sense of self essentially to become Molly Ringwald's puppy. Puppies are cute, not sexy.

Andrew McCarthy is also nice and does nice things for Molly despite being pulled to the dark side by James Spader. But he always maintains his own individual identity and thus remains attractive to her. Hence, he gets the girl and Duckie has to rely on the director feeling sorry for him and tossing him Kristy Swanson, which we all know would never happen in real life.

So, RD2 and others are right on. Be yourself and be confident in that and you will be fine.

[Izulde]

Once you need something, or you want it too badly, you forfeit your strength and lose all power of negotiation.

This is the only useful line in the whole frigging article.

It's all one giant business transaction. :p

[MikeVic]

Yup, I agree with all this. I am currently single and happy as heck. My family calls me the self-affirming bachelor. :)

I enjoy my spare time, which is fleeting, and my money, which is not much, and frankly, a relationship cuts deeply into both. So it's really easy for me to appear disinterested. Because I am. A girl has to really knock my socks off to get my attention. ;)

+1.

[Desnudo]

You can get women and be a nice guy. The difference is that women will call you a good guy, instead of a nice guy.

[Dr. Sak]

Yup, I agree with all this. I am currently single and happy as heck. My family calls me the self-affirming bachelor. :)

I enjoy my spare time, which is fleeting...

I am the same way up to that point. I have a lot of hobbies that I enjoy...softball, podcasting, refereeing, going to football games, that I would continue on doing.

My family and friends yell at me for being too picky when it comes to women. I don't know about the other single guys here but you can pretty much tell if you like a girl by about the third date. The first date, neither party acts like themselves, but by the second and third you get to see their true personality. I just cut it off if I don't like the person by then because I don't want to waste my time and also theirs. No use stringing them along.

I've also run into the problem with girls (the past few that I've dated) is that they like to play a game like they seem like they are busier than they are? The last girl I'd ask her to do something , spur of the moment so I understand if she is busy, and she'd say how she has to get back to me. Then would wait till 9pm or later to say she was busy. Or another time I'd ask her what her plans were for the weekend and she'd say she was busy, and didn't offer any ideas on when to meet up. Usually I take the hint that the dating was over, but I'd still get calls and texts saying "just thinking about you and wanted to say hi."

After a few times of this I've gotten to the point where I tell them "Obviously you have a much busier life than I do, so why don't you call me when you are free and we can make plans." Which comes off as a dick on my part but at that junction I don't really care.

Maybe I am way off base here, but if I am interested in someone, I'd shift some plans to hang out with her and I'd expect the same in return.

All of that stubbornness is probably one main reason why I am still single.

[st.cronin]

I get what Flasch is trying to say. I'll also add that with perseverance anything can be learned, as long as a good attitude is maintained.

I was terrible with women until I was late 20s, then I started to figure some things out.

[korme]

I don't want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's really hoping makes it happen. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from. Okay? You're a bad man. You're a bad man, Mikey. You're a bad man, bad man.

[Fighter of Foo]

I've also run into the problem with girls (the past few that I've dated) is that they like to play a game like they seem like they are busier than they are? The last girl I'd ask her to do something , spur of the moment so I understand if she is busy, and she'd say how she has to get back to me. Then would wait till 9pm or later to say she was busy. Or another time I'd ask her what her plans were for the weekend and she'd say she was busy, and didn't offer any ideas on when to meet up. Usually I take the hint that the dating was over, but I'd still get calls and texts saying "just thinking about you and wanted to say hi."

After a few times of this I've gotten to the point where I tell them "Obviously you have a much busier life than I do, so why don't you call me when you are free and we can make plans." Which comes off as a dick on my part but at that junction I don't really care.

Maybe I am way off base here, but if I am interested in someone, I'd shift some plans to hang out with her and I'd expect the same in return.


Right so if she's interested, she'll call you; if not, she won't. Either way you win :)

[panerd]

I take it this article pertains to beginning dating? Because every time I am disinterested or blow off my girlfriend I end up in the doghouse and have to be nice to win her back over.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I take it this article pertains to beginning dating? Because every time I am disinterested or blow off my girlfriend I end up in the doghouse and have to be nice to win her back over.
That's funny. I act disinterested and your girlfriend still calls me all the time.

WOW I AM SO EDGY

[Danny]

There's nothing wrong with being a nice guy... to a woman who deserves it. The article is right in that a man needs to know his self worth. You can and should treat the woman you love like she is your world, but she needs to treat you the same way. If a woman is going to play games, or not value your love, kindness, etc... Find someone else who will.

And even nice guys who respect women need to let them know how much they want to make love to them. A woman wants to feel desired and sexy. That doesn't mean you shouldn't wait until they are ready, just make sure they know you want them.

[CraigSca]

And even nice guys who respect women need to let them know how much they want to make love to them.

Crap, that's what I've been doing wrong.

I tell you what - first thing tomorrow, I'm letting my wife know. Expect an update later in the afternoon!

[sterlingice]

Personally, I'd rather be myself and be confident in that and get a woman that responds to me than have to play games. Those women are out there, though perhaps fewer and further between. Perhaps this is why I don't date the same quantity of girls that other men my age do but am generally happier in my relationships than others as well.

You can be cocky and funny and you will attract a certain type of person. But if you're not naturally cocky and funny, those probably aren't types you want to be hooking up with.

(Wait, why again am I posting something even halfways serious in a thread started based on a pretty bad article to begin with. Oh, yeah, because I get to say "cocky and funny" some more :D)

SI