Math textbook political correctness, gone 10 2/3 times overboard

[panerd]

I can't even begin to explain my utter contempt for textbook companies who try to be multicultural by having every picture contain a kid in a wheelchair, an Asian, a black, a hispanic girl, and a Indian (American kind) girl. But I will give the companies that if I were one of those groups the books of years ago probably had their full share of cute white girls and boys. I also understand maybe integrating names that occur outside of the Bible every once in a while but this one takes the cake...

We just got an update of an old textbook. Usually these updates try and clear up some problems that don't make sense, update sports statistics questions, throw in a new way of looking at a problem, take out references to things like the trade towers or OJ Simpson, etc. I understand they have to do this to sell books but today the kids were doing a problem and I noticed this passage...

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Sukey. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Takara."

So I go back to the previous edition and find this...

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Susan. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Barbara."

What the fuck? First of all this isn't even a real story? Secondly, I can't even explain how digusted and tired I am of shit like this. These are the names that are more modern and appropriate than Susan and Barbara?

[Pumpy Tudors]

And it doesn't even have anything to do with math!

[JediKooter]

Can't they just use fruit and vegetables??

[John Galt]

For a math guy, you use the words a "1000 times" a little loosely.

[MJ4H]

I have no idea how to react to this thread.

Sukey was on Gilmore Girls though I think.

[TCY Junkie]

Sukey is another name for Susan. He must be a Streisand fan.

[Crim]

And it doesn't even have anything to do with math!

Like hell it don't!

[Cringer]

I do not think I am one thousandth as pissed about this as panerd.

[ISiddiqui]

I greet this thread with a 1000 times meh.

[BrianD]

I greet this thread with a 1000 times meh.

+1

Or does that screw up the math?

[Crim]

+1

Or does that screw up the math?

stop counting problems.

[Tigercat]

"Many people have interesting stories about how they were named. Here is one student's story of how their name was chosen: "I'm a twin, and my mom and dad didn't know they were going to have twins. My sister was born first, and she was named Susan. I was a surprise. My mom named me after the woman in the next hospital bed, whose name was Barbara."


I don't find the example > or = to an interesting story. I obviously lack math skillz.

[Crim]

Don't let em get you down, panerd, keep on preachin!

[Groundhog]

I do not think I am one thousandth as pissed about this as panerd.

+1.

On TV right now in Australia every commercial follows a formula in that they all contain at least: 1 WASP, 1 Asian, 1 Aboriginal.

It's a big change from half a decade ago, but then, when I walk around Sydney (especially the CBD) I see probably as many Asian folks as I do WASPs, and the odd aboriginal. So to me it seems more like keeping up with the times (or even progressing - I doubt we are that much more multicultural than half a decade ago) than anything else.

[NoMyths]

I am more interested in why a person would get pissed off about (or even notice) the names of fake people in a sample math problem than I am in the reasons behind their inclusion (which are obvious, and non-threatening as far as I'm concerned). If the signs of a multi-cultural society bother you, perhaps it's worth examining whether there is a constructive way to move past your anger by considering the root causes. After all, it's not just math problems -- there are all sorts of people in our country who don't have WASPy names.

[panerd]

I am more interested in why a person would get pissed off about (or even notice) the names of fake people in a sample math problem than I am in the reasons behind their inclusion (which are obvious, and non-threatening as far as I'm concerned). If the signs of a multi-cultural society bother you, perhaps it's worth examining whether there is a constructive way to move past your anger by considering the root causes. After all, it's not just math problems -- there are all sorts of people in our country who don't have WASPy names.

There is a big picture of two Asian babies and the story in the very first chapter in the book. So the implication is that this a real, true, and funny story. Maybe the title of my thread is a little much, but somebody actually thought it was worth their time to change the picture of the white babies to Asians and to change the names to Sukey and Takara. Sorry, but it is fucking stupid and it not multicultural in the least. If simply changing a picture and a person's name makes it multicultural and sensitive than I guess this post now is also...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/30/83/23118330.jpg

[NoMyths]

There is a big picture of two Asian babies and the story in the very first chapter in the book. So the implication is that this a real, true, and funny story. Maybe the title of my thread is a little much, but somebody actually thought it was worth their time to change the picture of the white babies to Asians and to change the names to Sukey and Takara. Sorry, but it is fucking stupid and it not multicultural in the least. If simply changing a picture and a person's name makes it multicultural and sensitive than I guess this post now is also...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/30/83/23118330.jpg

Are you accustomed to math textbooks presenting problems with real stories and people, while also making them funny? I have to say, the tone of both of your posts echoes that of many people who have racial biases -- you're pretty worked up over an insignificant issue, focusing on the racial aspects of it. It's a math problem. The company obviously felt that by adding in some non-white names it might resonate with non-white kids, as well as enlarge the demographic audience for the textbook. I'd argue that such bitterness will not bring you much happiness in the modern world.

[panerd]

Are you accustomed to math textbooks presenting problems with real stories and people, while also making them funny? I have to say, the tone of both of your posts echoes that of many people who have racial biases -- you're pretty worked up over an insignificant issue, focusing on the racial aspects of it. It's a math problem. The company obviously felt that by adding in some non-white names it might resonate with non-white kids, as well as enlarge the demographic audience for the textbook. I'd argue that such bitterness will not bring you much happiness in the modern world.

Guess I have just been a teacher long enough to see the shift from all white, to pretty balanced multicultural, to Takara and Sukay and the lady in the wheelchair. You may call it a racial bias, I think pandering is a better definition. Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

[NoMyths]

Guess I have just been a teacher long enough to see the shift from all white, to pretty balanced multicultural, to Takara and Sukay and the lady in the wheelchair. You may call it a racial bias, I think pandering is a better definition. Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?

Not really even sure who they are pandering to but I guess this book cause a rise in our young Asian's test scores.

I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

[Subby]

Look at it this way - how awesome is your life if it leaves you room to get worked up about something like this?!

[JPhillips]

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

[NoMyths]

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

This is pretty much exactly the response many minority groups have to published evidence that they are represented, whether it is in fiction or a simple textbook. Thanks for sharing your perspective, JPhillips.

[panerd]

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?



I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

Christ, I guess I will drop it. I thought it was a pretty sad discovery, (and a sign of why education is so pitiful in this country. These are the solutions we come up with to problems) but the reaction of most was that my post wasn't that interesting. Your responses make no sense and I would love to continue replying to you but I see no need in getting into a discussion on race when that wasn't the premise of my orignal post at all.

I guess only Crim even sees the point I tried very poorly to make. :)

[Buccaneer]

Anyone else having no idea that Sukey or Takara were Asian names?

[panerd]

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

Whatever makes you happy. If this is the solution you think will solve problems that more power to you and the textbook industry. (changing the original names to Asian names instead of maybe actually coming up with a real life Asian example. Maybe explaining where different cultures names come from or something? Neh, lets change Susan to Sukay that will appease the Asian community!)

[st.cronin]

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.

[NoMyths]

As an educator myself, it troubles me that a colleague would be unable to comprehend the meaning in my posts -- particularly as I feel I'm being very generous in my responses. I don't doubt that the discussion of the racial undertones of your post is surprising to you. I'd just like to point out that you will probably be a happier person if you analyze the reasons for your anger at issues like these and find a way to move past them. Non-WASPy names are a fact of 21st century American life. You are never going to see less of them in textbooks and other media again. The sooner you come to terms with whatever core issues are troubling you about them, the happier your life will be.

[JPhillips]

If that's what you're advocating, I missed it. I'd agree with you that adding real cultural references would be better. If that's your intention, I apologize.

[panerd]

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.

Meh. Multi-culturalism would be explaining something about the Asian culture. They changed the names from the last book from white names to Asian names, that isn't exactly educational or cultural in any way is it? Guess I am not seeing something that you all see here.

[st.cronin]

Meh. Multi-culturalism would be explaining something about the Asian culture. They changed the names from the last book from white names to Asian names, that isn't exactly educational or cultural in any way is it? Guess I am not seeing something that you all see here.

In a math textbook?

[Groundhog]

FWIW, Sukay appears to be a surname rather than a first name, and not Asian. Takara is Japanese.

[timmynausea]

FWIW, Sukay appears to be a surname rather than a first name, and not Asian. Takara is Japanese.

Sukey is a first name. Sukay is a last name. At some point during the thread, the spelling got goofed, but it is Sukey in the first post.

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, it does seem that Takara is obviously Japanese, if one had heard of the various companies with that name. But as a person's name, it could be many things - like misspelling a name on purpose.

[sabotai]

On TV right now in Australia every commercial follows a formula in that they all contain at least: 1 WASP, 1 Asian, 1 Aboriginal.

In the US, we have 2 white people and 1 black person in every commercial. The black person always has the fewest lines. Most of the time they don't have any.

[QuikSand]

Look at it this way - how awesome is your life if it leaves you room to get worked up about something like this?!

^^^

not getting enough love in this thread

[MJ4H]

Seriously, no one but me busted out laughing at "Joe Joe the African Tribesman?"

[st.cronin]

Never liked the Swiss, they make them little clocks, these two cocksuckers come out of 'em with these little hammers, hit each other on the head. What kind of sick mentality is that?

[Drake]

All I know is that if I'm the one paying for texbooks, shelling out cash for a new edition where names in story problems being changed (regardless of what they're changed from or to) was a major revision, I'd be pissed.

Oh, wait. That's all I ever get with Madden upgrades. ;)

[sterlingice]

Anyone else having no idea that Sukey or Takara were Asian names?

I guessed Takara was. Had no clue about Sukey

SI

[MikeVic]

What's a WASP?

[sterlingice]

I shouldn't let this bother me, but being the father of an Asian girl, it really pisses me off. I'm thrilled that my daughter will be able to look at textbooks and see herself and her heritage represented there. She and millions like her are a part of this great country and they deserve to see themselves in their taxpayer funded materials.

I hope my daughter never has a teacher with such obvious anger and racial issues as you do times 1000.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a moment. Like other racially charged issues like affirmative action, is it fair when the pendulum swings too far the other direction?

In theory, as of 2008, the population is 68% white, 15% hispanic, 12% African American, and 5% Asian American. If the book is 25/25/25/25- is that fair? Or how about 20/20/20/20/20 (other- Native American, etc)? How about having a textbook with no whites at all? I know we aren't talking about it in this case but where is the line?

SI

[Radii]

What's a WASP?


I would be willing to bet 2/3 or more of this thread are WASPs!

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant)

[Groundhog]

I would be willing to bet 2/3 or more of this thread are WASPs!

(White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant))

I had no idea that the P stood for "Protestant" - I though it was "person". Learn something new every day. I guess I'm a WAS. :D

[JPhillips]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a moment. Like other racially charged issues like affirmative action, is it fair when the pendulum swings too far the other direction?

In theory, as of 2008, the population is 68% white, 15% hispanic, 12% African American, and 5% Asian American. If the book is 25/25/25/25- is that fair? Or how about 20/20/20/20/20 (other- Native American, etc)? How about having a textbook with no whites at all? I know we aren't talking about it in this case but where is the line?

SI

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

[sterlingice]

I had no idea that the P stood for "Protestant" - I though it was "person". Learn something new every day. I guess I'm a WAS. :D

I'm a WP :D

Although according to Wiki's article, Germans are getting counted towards the "AS" part in modern verbage. However, I'm only 1/4 German while I'm 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Lithuanian. So I'm more than half non-AS.

SI

[sterlingice]

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

I think the bolded part sounds a lot like empty election year rhetoric- c'mon "it's not too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers". But that aside, no question was answered. And I pose this not just to you but anyone.

Also, what do you mean by "until we have numbers"? What I posted above are US census estimates for 2008

SI

[Arles]

I don't think this is exactly political correctness, it is multi-culturalism. They are not the same concept.
^^ What he said

[Groundhog]

Until we have numbers, there really is no point in arguing this as I'm not advocating for any sort of equal splits or an absence of whites. Finding the right balance is difficult and while I'm eager to have Asians in particular represented due to my situation, I'm not going to count pictures and look for any sort of percentages. I don't think it's too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers be given some representation in school materials.

Honestly it isn't something that I've given a lot of thought to, but isn't it more important for the majority to be exposed to the minority, rather than vice versa? The minorities are exposed to the majority all the time, but the reverse is far often less true.

But at the end of the day, this isn't really an issue that inspires a lot of outrage in me one way or the other. :)

[molson]

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

[st.cronin]

I think we teach children something other than math when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

fixed

[Groundhog]

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

Hmmm. I think I disagree with this.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the increased presence of minorities in commercials/textbooks/etc.

The area I grew up in and went to school in was nearly entirely WASP. As I very rarely ventured too far away when I was growing up, I had no idea how multicultural my country was even two decades ago. The few Asian kids in my school got treated pretty badly because of this I think.

Nowadays people are more familiar with other races through TV, school, etc., and I think the various races tend to get along with each other far better in the school years - you don't neccessarily see all the Asian kids hanging together, and all the African kids hanging together, etc.

I don't attribute that entirely to TV commercials and the like, and of course there are still racist little prats out there, but things are much better in Sydney now than they were a decade ago when it comes to racial tolerance, and I know that our schools begun to introduce us to multiculturalism when I was still a student. Looks like it is working.

[molson]

Hmmm. I think I disagree with this.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the increased presence of minorities in commercials/textbooks/etc.

The area I grew up in and went to school in was nearly entirely WASP. As I very rarely ventured too far away when I was growing up, I had no idea how multicultural my country was even two decades ago. The few Asian kids in my school got treated pretty badly because of this I think.

Nowadays people are more familiar with other races through TV, school, etc., and I think the various races tend to get along with each other far better in the school years - you don't neccessarily see all the Asian kids hanging together, and all the African kids hanging together, etc.

I don't attribute that entirely to TV commercials and the like, and of course there are still racist little prats out there, but things are much better in Sydney now than they were a decade ago when it comes to racial tolerance, and I know that our schools begun to introduce us to multiculturalism when I was still a student. Looks like it is working.

Good points.

Being exposed to real multiculturalism is a good thing, there's just something about the lazy, obviously token and forced representation you usually see. There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook. Schools should make an effort to expose kids to more of the former (through films, actual study of the culture, etc), and not feel good about themselves just because they have the latter.

[Groundhog]

There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook. Schools should make an effort to expose kids to more of the former, and not feel good about themselves just because they have the latter.

Definately agree 110%. My school's effort sat probably somewhere in the middle, but I'll give them points for trying. It's probably better today.

[stevew]

If it was pc they would have a unit on calculating your carbon footprint or a lesson on how to figure out compounded interest on the value of stolen sacred tribe lands.

[Groundhog]

If it was pc they would have a unit on calculating your carbon footprint or a lesson on how to figure out compounded interest on the value of stolen sacred tribe lands.

:D

Don't go giving anybody ideas...

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, since Asians are good at math, it makes sense that they change everyone in a math book to Asians...


.. what?

[astrosfan64]

I would like to apologize to the world for being white.

I believe that is what white people are supposed to say and do these days, so we aren't considered arogant, racist, mean, overbearing, angry, presumtious etc...

I will keep my head down and demand that all references to white names be stricken from all teaching and/or reading material.

I will not name my kids any "white" names. My kids will have names from all other cultures, so maybe the world will be kinder to my children.

Again, I am sorry for this.

Have a nice day.

:)

On a serious note, I wonder how many school books in China, Japan, India, Egypt, Congo, have "wasp" names in them? I believe much of Europe is getting PC like the US, just wondering about these other countries.

[Mustang]

All I know is that when Sukey, Takara, Susan and Barbara all meet, they will all have something in common.

[astrosfan64]

All I know is that when Sukey, Takara, Susan and Barbara all meet, they will all have something in common.

LOL excellent post.

[Neon_Chaos]

If people get worked up over such a small thing as a name in a math textbook that will most likely be glanced at by a kid for about a minute, I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Racism = Fail.

[sabotai]

I present to you, Japanese culture.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bmMEddx9w-I&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bmMEddx9w-I&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sukey is a first name. Sukay is a last name. At some point during the thread, the spelling got goofed, but it is Sukey in the first post.

So what you are saying is someone out there could have the name Sukey Sukay?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Trust me, you don't really want to know. It would take waaaaaay longer than either of us have to even scratch the surface.

[Dutch]

If people get worked up over such a small thing as a name in a math textbook that will most likely be glanced at by a kid for about a minute, I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Racism = Fail.

Of course, the flip side is for all those people who aren't mad at this book, the book=fail for changing the names. ;)

[Huckleberry]

I'm a WP :D

Although according to Wiki's article, Germans are getting counted towards the "AS" part in modern verbage. However, I'm only 1/4 German while I'm 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Lithuanian. So I'm more than half non-AS.

SI

Eh, that would make sense, wouldn't it? Given that the Saxons came from Saxony and the Anglo refers to the Angles from Angeln.

Basically, all parts of the term Anglo Saxon refer to people that originally came from Germany.

[Dutch]

So what you are saying is someone out there could have the name Sukey Sukay?

They got people named Fuk Mi, so I'm sure it's possible.

[Dr. Sak]

Fook Yu

[JPhillips]

I think the bolded part sounds a lot like empty election year rhetoric- c'mon "it's not too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers". But that aside, no question was answered. And I pose this not just to you but anyone.

Also, what do you mean by "until we have numbers"? What I posted above are US census estimates for 2008

SI

By numbers I meant numbers of pictures in these books. I don't have anywhere near enough evidence to know what percentages different races/cultures are being represented, and like I said, I'm not going to go around demanding perfectly equal representation. Taking this into a "what's too much" argument has very little to do with saying there should be some representation.

As to the taxpayer line, no it isn't an election rhetoric. We live in a society where who pays matters quite a bit. I think that their tax dollars entitle them to some level of representation in materials paid for by the government.

[Klinglerware]

Of course, the flip side is for all those people who aren't mad at this book, the book=fail for changing the names. ;)

If this were a three-sided coin: publishing companies FTW, for finding a way to frequently update their textbooks (keeping the staff employed and consequently selling more books)...

[lurker]

I agree with panerd and I'm Asian, so there's no deep-seated racial bias there. I grew up in a city that was once named the whitest in America and whenever I'd see these token inclusions in my textbooks, I'd always feel awkward. It was just so out of place with the way society was, or at least appeared to me then. When it's *so* far removed from reality that over half the names were ethnic, I don't think it changes anyone's views. It just resulted in more kids getting annoyed at having to pronounce these names, and I'd always feel like they were all looking at me whenever they'd struggle over the names. It actually made me feel like more of an outsider.

And as a math person, I have a big problem with reissuing the textbooks just to change something that has nothing to do with math.

[MJ4H]

i actually have some black friends too so im not racist fo sho

[lurker]

Clever. That's exactly the same point I was making by mentioning I'm Asian. It's not at all that lots of people implied only racist white people would have a problem with these inclusions.

[Bad-example]

Being exposed to real multiculturalism is a good thing, there's just something about the lazy, obviously token and forced representation you usually see. There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook.

Someone please tell the white people in charge of text books that they need to stop!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Please pardon my language here, but I'm angry.

I ain't seen one motherfucking person in a fucking math textbook named "Pumpy" in my entire damn fucking life, and I'm pretty fucking sick of it.

Oh, wait, there was that one Asian Pumpy in my trig book. Never mind.

[panerd]

Seriously, no one but me busted out laughing at "Joe Joe the African Tribesman?"

:) It was very a subtle part of the post showing that I can change his name to make his post "cultural", unfortunatly only a very small audience appreciated the joke. (Maybe the jungle tribe distracted everyone)

[Pumpy Tudors]

:) It was very a subtle part of the post showing that I can change his name to make his post "cultural", unfortunatly only a very small audience appreciated the joke. (Maybe the jungle tribe distracted everyone)
I'm guilty of being distracted by the jungle tribe. Now that I see the "Jo Jo" thing, I'm dying laughing, too.

[JediKooter]

I have to admit, most of the Asian people I've known, have western names, unless they actually immigrated to America. When I was younger I actually knew a girl of Asian decent who's name was Susan. So color me confused.

[boberot]

Yeah, things were so much better when everybody in books was white and middle class and had neat-o names like Dick and Jane and Spot.

What? Your mom doesn't stay home and vacuum the carpet in heels and pearls?!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Dick_and_Jane.jpg

I'd say it's probably better to err on the side of being more inclusive of other cultures. Since when is there an expectation that people depicted in text books should be white or have "normal" names?

[larrymcg421]

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

Couple of problems with this statement. First of all, you're assuming that the "majority" made the decision to make this change. I don't see how you can make that assumption.

Secondly, how do you suggest we get from the original way of 100% WASPY representation to a more reasonable distribution without "teaching them that certain groups can't stand on their own."?

[MikeVic]

I had a stats book that talked about McGwire breaking HR records.

[Coffee Warlord]

Know what, I don't give a rats ass what they name people.

I do have a problem with them swapping out some names, making it more PC...and charging schools godknowshowmuch for the "Awesome New Edition!".

[Honolulu_Blue]

Know what, I don't give a rats ass what they name people.

I do have a problem with them ... charging schools godknowshowmuch for the "Awesome New Edition!".

I think we need panerd to confirm that the only changes to this new addition were Susan and Barbara to Sukey and Takara.

Maybe they changed some math stuffs as well in this new edition and just decided to change the names while they were at it.

The text book people need to feed their families too.

[Coffee Warlord]

I think we need panerd to confirm that the only changes to this new addition were Susan and Barbara to Sukey and Takara.

Maybe they changed some math stuffs as well in this new edition and just decided to change the names while they were at it.

The text book people need to feed their families too.

It's a math textbook. How much could they really change.

[MJ4H]

clearly they have to update it to the new math

[cuervo72]

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?



I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

Ok...outside of the discussion at hand, I'm getting a little bit of a chuckle out of the imagery of a minority superintendent reading the previous version and saying "Screw this crap - this company can go to hell with their Susan and Barbara!"


("Broaden their audience" - how much textbook competition is there? And the kids, they're pretty much locked in. I understand what you're getting at - this is a matter of getting kids to tune in because they are not excluded - but the wording made me think of things in a sales-driven way. On that though...do minority kids tune out - "screw this whitey crap" - if they are not represented? How much does it register with them, from both sides of the fence?)

[RomaGoth]

As to the taxpayer line, no it isn't an election rhetoric. We live in a society where who pays matters quite a bit. I think that their tax dollars entitle them to some level of representation in materials paid for by the government.

Are you saying that those who pay taxes should be represented in a school textbook? Hmmm....I have never seen my face in one and I pay taxes. I fail to see the relevance here.

[Drake]

("Broaden their audience" - how much textbook competition is there? And the kids, they're pretty much locked in. I understand what you're getting at - this is a matter of getting kids to tune in because they are not excluded - but the wording made me think of things in a sales-driven way. On that though...do minority kids tune out - "screw this whitey crap" - if they are not represented? How much does it register with them, from both sides of the fence?)

Actually, cuervo, this makes perfect sense to me from a multi-national perspective. We know there's a huge market for English language instruction around the world (especially in China right now). If I'm a publishing company, having one edition (i.e., one set of printing costs) that is broadly multi-cultural is much better than having a Chinese edition, an Argentinian edition, etc. You get to market it as English language math instruction with cultural hooks that kids in your country can latch onto.

I could very easily see a shift like this being much more about multi-national marketing than multi-culturism. And if that really is the philosophy behind it, that's actually a pretty clever move (i.e., minimal cost, more markets).

[BishopMVP]

I'd say it's probably better to err on the side of being more inclusive of other cultures. Since when is there an expectation that people depicted in text books should be white or have "normal" names?The problem is that either the person in charge of editing the textbook decided changing the names of people was more important than making the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free or the textbook company has a seperate person whose job is solely to go through different textbooks making sure the names are multi-cultural, and the costs of that salary is being passed on to schools.

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

[RomaGoth]

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that.

Especially if they have some rare disease or something. Oh, the humanity! :eek:

[Honolulu_Blue]

The problem is that either the person in charge of editing the textbook decided changing the names of people was more important than making the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free or the textbook company has a seperate person whose job is solely to go through different textbooks making sure the names are multi-cultural, and the costs of that salary is being passed on to schools.

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

Again, I ask you, how do we know that the person in charge of the editing didn't make "the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free" in addition to changing the names in some of the stroy problems in an effort to make them more illustrative of the miraculous rainbow that is humanity?

I am sure a math text book editor is fully capable of doing both without any significant additional cost to our schools.

I hear you general cry, though, my brothers. It's fucking hard to be a white male in America today. Just look at this Obama character. He's trying to break our string of 43 consecutive white male U.S. Presidents.

The end is nigh!

[Honolulu_Blue]

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

This raises another interesting point. Why are we jumping to the conclusion that it's PC to have the woman in the hospital named Takara instead of Barbara? I argue that it is fact very NON-PC.

Let me explain. If anything, replacing Barbara with Takara is either (1) implying that Asian women are somehow weaker or more sickly than good, old fashioned American women; or (2) if Takara was in there because she was pregnant - since the mother of the child was most likely in a maternity ward - it could be the author's way of implying that Asian women have looser morals (Takara got knocked up here, not Babs) than American women.

As for the name Sukey, like was mentioned above, perhaps the mother was just a big fan of the "Gilmour Girls". Who could blame her? Further, can you be anymore WASPy than the Gilmores?

That editor is a fucking patriot.

[TCY Junkie]

I figured someone made him rewrite it and he thought it was silly. So he made a joke of it. Sukey is a form of Susan and Takara means Treasure, precious object. So Barbara is precious to him, which is probably his wife or Streisand. I really don't know how to make it much clearer it was silly and understood Panerd.

[Tigercat]

I figured someone made him rewrite it and he thought it was silly. So he made a joke of it. Sukey is a form of Susan and Takara means Treasure, precious object. So Barbara is precious to him, which is probably his wife or Streisand. I really don't know how to make it much clearer it was silly and understood Panerd.

I think it is a code that Nicholas Cage will use to break box office records with in National Treasure 3.

[Passacaglia]

Man, two mentions of Gilmore Girls, and none of Belle and Sebastian. For shame.

[Karlifornia]

http://www.newlandcenter-aacs.org/images/asiantwins2.jpg

Dear panerd,

Why do you hate us?

Sincerely,
Sukey and Takara

[MrDNA]

In panerd's defense, I think what probably really annoyed him about this is that the publishers went through and changed names and pictures, but left the same half-ass actual math content. At least, as a teacher, I am guessing that's what would push his buttons.

Or maybe he's just incredibly racist? Could be either of the two ;)

[MJ4H]

The math is so easy even Joe Joe the African Tribesman could do it.

[Logan]

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

[TCY Junkie]

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

This is suppose to be about race. When you get attached to these two little girls in one edition based on what you thought was a true story only to have your heart ripped out in the next edition, I can see how someone could get upset. I wouldn't trust anythng that book puts out and they would have to prove to me that 1 + 1 = 2.

[JPhillips]

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

One of the reasons I don't assign many textbooks in my classes. This year I'll teach six classes and likely not have a single textbook. I do plays, essays, an occasional book, but I try to stay away from textbooks. Most of them, at least in my field, suck and they're way overpriced.

[sterlingice]

It's a math textbook. How much could they really change.

clearly they have to update it to the new math

You joke but there really is such a thing. You should hear my wife's mom talk about it. She's a high level high school math teacher (think ap calc, dominating math team, etc) and really blasts some of the "new math" that's coming down the pipes. Basically, it's cutesy ways of teaching basic functions and algebra that leaves us badly behind the rest of the world.

SI

[Glengoyne]

You joke but there really is such a thing. You should hear my wife's mom talk about it. She's a high level high school math teacher (think ap calc, dominating math team, etc) and really blasts some of the "new math" that's coming down the pipes. Basically, it's cutesy ways of teaching basic functions and algebra that leaves us badly behind the rest of the world.

SI

New Math. I went to back to school night Monday, and was able to thank my 3rd grade daughter's teacher "Thank you for going over the curriculum. I think it is fantastic that you are actually going to teach the children math."

Last year I pissed off my daughter's second grade teacher by telling her that she wasn't teaching math. Rather she was teaching them to count using this screwed up thing called touch math. I might have railed about it here... My blood pressure will raise if I actually try to explain it here. So this year I got to tell the teacher that I'm happy. She is actually having do daily timed addition and multiplication tests.

So I went to back to school night, and I didn't tell the teacher that she was lazy, nor did my wife have to usher me away from the teacher and the crowd of parents gathering around to watch the show.

[Raiders Army]

"Joe and Steve were planning their wedding in California and lived in Minnesota. They were each bringing fifteen guests. Six of the total guests lived in California. How many people had to travel to California?"


What's the question kids are gonna ask here?





















"Mom, why are Joe and Steve getting married when they're Asian and White?"

[Autumn]

I think someone hit it on the head a couple pages back, saying that it's more important to expose the majority to the minority than vice versa (not to mention that minorities will soon be the majority in the U.S.).

The number of multicultural mentions in things like textbooks and commercials are going to have to exceed their actual numbers if we are to do so. It often strikes me how nonrepresentative ads and commercials are which always feature a white, a black and an Asian. But it seems the reasonable solution to the issue of including more people.

[astrosfan64]

"Joe and Steve were planning their wedding in California and lived in Minnesota. They were each bringing fifteen guests. Six of the total guests lived in California. How many people had to travel to California?"


What's the question kids are gonna ask here?





















"Mom, why are Joe and Steve getting married when they're Asian and White?"

LOL

[RomaGoth]

"Joe and Steve were planning their wedding in California and lived in Minnesota. They were each bringing fifteen guests. Six of the total guests lived in California. How many people had to travel to California?"


What's the question kids are gonna ask here?




















"Mom, why are Joe and Steve getting married when they're Asian and White?"

Not sure about your kids, but mine would ask why two men are getting married.

[sterlingice]

Not sure about your kids, but mine would ask why two men are getting married.

*woosh* That was the sound of a joke going over one's head ;)

(a sound I know so very well)

SI

[SteveMax58]

"Mom, why are Joe and Steve getting married when they're Asian and White?"

And the no-brainer response is:

"Don't be silly kids, Joe is a tribesman from Africa...not white."

http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/125/y8572_125.gif

[RomaGoth]

*woosh* That was the sound of a joke going over one's head ;)

(a sound I know so very well)

SI

Yeah I got the joke, I was just making a rather noticeable attempt at another joke. Sad, I know. Oh well, perhaps next time.....;)

[RomaGoth]

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

Funny you mention this. I just spent almost $400 on textbooks for this fall semester (senior year). This is just another racket going on that nobody wants to admit to or talk about. They are definitely "pricks" in my opinion.

[CU Tiger]

Damn....Takara and Sukey beat out Tyrone and Dashiqui again....just another case of them yellas holding us down....

[Chief Rum]

Clever. That's exactly the same point I was making by mentioning I'm Asian. It's not at all that lots of people implied only racist white people would have a problem with these inclusions.

I kinda thought a couple of the early posters also really unfairly ripped panerd as well, without, IMO, anywhere near the evidence they thought they had. One of them even admitted later on he didn't have access to those sorts of numbers, and but that unfortunately didn't lead him to apologize to panerd at least by the point at which I am responding here.

And before everyone leaps on the popular "Chief must be racist" card, my best friend is Asian, I count many Asians and Latinos among my best friends, and I have grown up among them and other racial groups my whole life (being from California).

The only group to which I feel I need more exposure is African-American (and despite that, no problems there either).

[JPhillips]

I'm assuming you're talking about me and if so, I'd recommend post #28. I still find his general tone about Asians to be offensive, but if he wants to incorporate a more integrated multiculturalism I'm all for it.

If that's what you're advocating, I missed it. I'd agree with you that adding real cultural references would be better. If that's your intention, I apologize.

The numbers issue doesn't really relate to the specific issue of Panerd's comments at all. It was a response to a theoretical posed by SI.

[Chief Rum]

I'm assuming you're talking about me and if so, I'd recommend post #28. I still find his general tone about Asians to be offensive, but if he wants to incorporate a more integrated multiculturalism I'm all for it.



The numbers issue doesn't really relate to the specific issue of Panerd's comments at all. It was a response to a theoretical posed by SI.

Sorry, JPhillips, but I am not going to name names. I just felt some people were over the top, and perhaps, they should consider giving an unqualified apology. But that's up to them.

[stevew]

Wait a second, the real question is why the fuck are kids going to school in mid august? That's like some communist bullshit. It's harvest season, dammit. Send them out to work on the farm for a couple more weeks.

Civilized kids should only be learning about Sukey and Takara after labor day.

[panerd]

Sorry, JPhillips, but I am not going to name names. I just felt some people were over the top, and perhaps, they should consider giving an unqualified apology. But that's up to them.

I don't think any apology is neccessary, though I appreciate your posts. I just don't understand how me complaining about the cosmetic and supericial changes being made to a textbook became me being a racist. It's not that I even care being labeled as such or feel the need to defend myself if I am, but when I made the original post it was the last thing I ever expected to happen.

(On the other hand I also felt like it might be a no reply thread, not a 115+ one!)

[Bonegavel]

What if Barbara and Susan were Asian Americans and Sukey and Tatanka were displaced WASPs in Japan? Could so happen.

[Pumpy Tudors]

[...] when I made the original post it was the last thing I ever expected to happen.
Been on the internet long, buddy?

[TCY Junkie]

Been on the internet long, buddy?
+1

[Crim]

+1

You can stop sucking Pumpy's dick anytime, now, Junkie.

[cuervo72]

Actually, cuervo, this makes perfect sense to me from a multi-national perspective. We know there's a huge market for English language instruction around the world (especially in China right now). If I'm a publishing company, having one edition (i.e., one set of printing costs) that is broadly multi-cultural is much better than having a Chinese edition, an Argentinian edition, etc. You get to market it as English language math instruction with cultural hooks that kids in your country can latch onto.

I could very easily see a shift like this being much more about multi-national marketing than multi-culturism. And if that really is the philosophy behind it, that's actually a pretty clever move (i.e., minimal cost, more markets).

Not a bad angle. I wouldn't normally think about an international market for a math book written in English, but I can buy that. Of course at the same time there's probably a need for Spanish language math texts in the United States...

[TCY Junkie]

You can stop sucking Pumpy's dick anytime, now, Junkie.

Ok Crim, it is your turn. And I was thinking of putting you on my buddy list the other day. I will rectify that by doing so, what a strange name for a girl.

[Crim]

You crack me up.








And, yes, by all means, let me have a go at it, I've been patient enough.

[TCY Junkie]

You crack me up.


Just cause we're buddies dosen't mean I have a specific quanity available at all times, well if you consider 0 a quanity than I do.

[sterlingice]

Wait a second, the real question is why the fuck are kids going to school in mid august? That's like some communist bullshit. It's harvest season, dammit. Send them out to work on the farm for a couple more weeks.

I agree 100% on the school should start in September. I swear, school just keeps starting earlier and earlier every year.

Civilized kids should only be learning about Sukey and Takara after labor day.

So, wait, what you're advocating is "no whites after Labor day"? (oh, yeah, I went there! :D and I'm almost proud of that bad pun)

SI

[molson]

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

Almost every professor I had in college in then law school were extremely sympathetic to this. A lot of times there'd be notes on the syllabus highlighting the differences between editions, and where you could find the info in the gap if you went with the older book.

My law school professors would ususally say, "the assignment is pages 1-100, if you have last year's casebook, just lookup case X on Westlaw and you'll be caught up".