Punishing Hitter?

[TheMeat]

What does this rating mean? I have taken it be of very minor importance, is it a players ability to cause fumbles? Injuries? I have assumed that it isn't a players ability to make a tackle.

And as long as I'm at it, what does play diagnosis relate to directly? I assume that this rating is very important as it plays a significant role in determining any defensive players OVR rating, but how so? what does it affect on the field? Is it more important for some players, or equally for all players?

[Matthean]

Play diagnosis should mean a guy who seems to be always around the ball. It's the other stats that determine how good he is once he is there. Punishing Hitter might be the flip side to courage for WRs. Why did the WR short arm that pass attempt? Because he had low courage and he heard foot steps of the big ugly DB who is a hard hitter. Causing fumbles would also be a good use for it.

[RedKingGold]

From the Solecismic Player File Creator Help File:


Punishing Hitter - ability to punish the ballcarrier
Play Diagnosis - ability to recognize the flow of an offensive play


As far as these ratings translate to the field, there is no 100% concrete conclusion. However, it appears that some (including I) believe:

Play Diagnosis - When team has many players with high play diagnosis, it seems to allow the defense to become more familiar with what plays the offense frequently runs. This is shown in the gamelogs/Solevision by, "The defense looked very familiar with that play."

Punishing Hitter - When a player with a high punishing hitter rating is involved on a play (tackle or sack, etc.), that there is a higher probability that the ball carrier will fumble the ball, take a heavier hit on his endurance, or have a higher propensity for an injury dice roll.

The effect of these ratings is hard to test because defense in itself is hard to figure out in FOF. However, unless I'm mistaken, these are the two most common beliefs about the effect these ratings have during a game.

[Celeval]

I've always thought (completely unproven) that Play Diagnosis was the ability for a defensive player to recover when expecting run and it's a pass; or vice versa.

[Dutch]

And I thought it was the ability to diffuse a "finese" run.

[MrDNA]

And I thought it allowed them to tell the offense what was wrong with their plays and how to fix them.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Seeing those questions pop up regularly is quite funny.

What we need from Jim is not a new game, it's "FOF2007: The Help File". ;)

[Nogram]

Heck I would pay $40 for an EXTENSIVE help file, including the mechanics of the play calling logic.

Nogram

[Subby]

I'm not sure Jim even remembers how it works at this point.

[cuervo72]

This just hasn't been tested enough apparently. Geez guys, like eight years and you haven't figured it out. What kind of puzzle solvers are you?

[Nogram]

What kind of puzzle solvers are you?

A mix of bad and lazy....

Nogram

[TheMeat]

Thanks RKG, it helps to have a starting point, so at least i can start with the common assumption, even if it's cloudy. I will continue to value PD much more than PH :)

[TheMeat]

And yes, it would be helpful to have at least a very basic explanation of how the ratings affect play results and details like that about the game. I don't think the gameplay should be totally transparent, or that we should know exactly how the engine works but sometimes it feels like the game is in a different language, the QB ratings especially are confusing. You'd think that "accuracy" would be a very important rating, and directly related to completion % and interception %. It is my understanding that accuracy has nothing to do with these as it is stated that it is the QB's ability to "hit a receiver in stride".

[cuervo72]

And yes, it would be helpful to have at least a very basic explanation of how the ratings affect play results and details like that about the game. I don't think the gameplay should be totally transparent, or that we should know exactly how the engine works but sometimes it feels like the game is in a different language, the QB ratings especially are confusing. You'd think that "accuracy" would be a very important rating, and directly related to completion % and interception %. It is my understanding that accuracy has nothing to do with these as it is stated that it is the QB's ability to "hit a receiver in stride".

One might also think that "timing" would go hand in hand with precision routes - like a timing pattern - but instead it is "their ability to take advantage of defensive miscues (timing)"; or, from the player creator help, the "ability to connect with receivers who deviate from the planned play."

And I *still* have to double check between "Big Play Receiving" and "Getting Downfield" for WR.

[Firefly]

"their ability to take advantage of defensive miscues (timing)"; or, from the player creator help, the "ability to connect with receivers who deviate from the planned play."


Which in game terms means...? Is it that thing that happens when your QB throws a short pass that goes for 20 yards (or the other way around)?

[Ben E Lou]

Timing...

Solecismic Q&A: End-Of-Half Logic, RB Endurance, "Timing" Rating - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=61562)

Q: It seems in 6.1, quite a few passes are being described as one distance, but being completed for a significant distance different from that distance. (For example, Solevision saying that my team threw a "medium" pass, but the completion was only 4 yards down the field.) Can you give some insight into what's happening there?

Players will improvise routes in FOF. You will find this increases with a quarterback's "Timing" (or ability to take advantage of what the defense allows them). In return for your shorter (or longer, it works both ways, though YAC is not calculated using this information) completion, you're gaining a higher completion percentage.

As an aside, people have noticed that YAC does not correlate well with NFL totals. It's one of the few stats in FOF that's calculated after the play is resolved (slightly different from KRB, which is part of the play, but not counted unless the run is a "success"). That really should be on the list of things to improve in the engine.

[Ben E Lou]

Ratings hints.... (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=55925)

[Epi_862]

For all the things this game does right, i think the rating system is really weak. I think when a football fan cannot easily correlate the ratings to how the player will play, there is certainly a problem.

The current system, which takes some basic talents like strength and speed, and transforms them in to hard-to understand micro skills, is really strange. I would love for there to be a big pool of basic, attributable skills, and just a few position spesific skills.

It would, to me, be fathomable that players would ALL have just a bunch of basic skills, and no position spesific skills. It really is just a combination of talent, coaching and experience. Of course, some pos-spesific skills make it a lot more detailed and fun, but a system where they are omitted wouldnt be bad, matter of fact, it would propably be an improvement over the current system.

This is just thrown up in a minute, but understandable basic attribute set, that would be fully understood on first read, could be something like:

Speed
Burst
Agility
Strength
Toughness
Height
Weight
Intelligence
Determination
Talent
Charisma
Leadership
Personality type

Think about guys like, say, Ray Lewis - or on the other end - Chris Henry, and i think you could rate them pretty accurately with this system.

Of course, there would be some spesific skills, but these too should be understandable, and not micro-skills which are just a combination of basic skills, coaching and experience. Things like "reading the defense", or "elusiveness" as it's understood in real life football, should never be attributed by a number, much less as accurately as 1-100. What should be rated, are technical skills. Throwing power, tackling, kick accuracy, the like. Again, stuff like "zone defence" is a combination of intelligence, awareness, coaching, experience and familiarity with the system - even speed, and burst matter when making the play. I just cant understand how a player can be rated 1-100 in zone coverage.

I could propably go on an on, and i propably already annoyed some people by not undertsanding the current system. I'd like to say, i love FOF and appriciate Jim's work, this is just one part of the game that i feel is extremely illogical.

[OldSchool]

And I thought it allowed them to tell the offense what was wrong with their plays and how to fix them.

I thought it impacted the players ability to determine whether a play is a run or a pass. :/