College Football, Week 3 discussions

[kingnebwsu]

No chance of that I am afraid, You should get your tickets for ready for the Liberty Bowl:)

Does the Liberty Bowl still exist? :p

Seriously though. OSU will make a January 1st bowl or a BCS bowl. I don't think they'll make it back to the championship (after yesterday, that's fine by me) but this year's team is too talented and this year's Big Ten is not talented enough for OSU to win at least 10 games. 10-2 and they probably get into a BCS bowl game. Worst case, they get into a New Year's Day game. No way they lose more than 3 games. They could lose to Wisconsin, Penn State, or Michigan...but not all 3, and it's very possible that they go 11-1.

[sterlingice]

I still see OSU getting beat again this year though. OSU would be a 3 loss team at best in the SEC.

Say, which SEC team was playing USC today?

Was it those great SEC wins against UAB, Rice, Samford, Western Kentucky and North Texas? Or was it the squeakers against Middle Tennessee State and North Texas?

Or last week's games against Southern Miss, Central Michigan, Norfolk States, Louisiana Monroe, SE Louisiana, Tulane, and Troy? Or week 1 with Miami (OH), Appalachain St, Georgia Southern, Memphis, Louisiana Monroe (again), and Western Illinois (or the loss to Louisiana Tech by Mississippi St)?

Yeah, so the only games the SEC has played so far is Mississippi losing to Wake Forest and Alabama beating Clemson. You want some minor points for a mediocre Miami team and 1-2 NC State since at least they're from the ACC and Florida graciously inviting over 1-2 Hawaii who isn't all the same team they were last year and on the road?

Don't give me this crap about how the SEC plays a tough conference schedule so they can go out and schedule patsies. It's not like the other BCS conferences have Norfolk State in them. At least Ohio State should get some credit for actually scheduling someone. Tho, to be fair, Georgia has to go out to ASU next week but that game looks a lot less impressive after the stumble by the Sun Devils this week will probably knock them out of the Top 25 (then again, this is why we need to start polls about week 6 but that's another argument for another day).

SI

[MJ4H]

It was Alabama that beat Clemson. And Arkansas was scheduled to play a top 10 team yesterday but a hurricane postponed it.

And FWIW I expect Arkansas's habit of soft-scheduling OOC games to change drastically under Petrino. Our schedule this year and the next few is brutal (and no, I don't just mean OOC, but the OOC schedule picks up a lot, too).

[sterlingice]

edited my post above to change it to Alabama

SI

[CU Tiger]

I think the schedule excuse this year is overblown. No offense to BYU fans, but I don't think the Cougars would be much more than a mid-level Pac-10 team this year.


UCLA would like to respectfully disagree

[MacroGuru]

UCLA would like to respectfully disagree

LOL...Thank you!

[Chief Rum]

I would disagree with you, too, dawgfan, although I agree that generally BYU would end up there in most years. This year, though, I suspect will be the worst year across the board for the Pac 10 since 1999. It's just the ebb and flow. We have been strong for many years, but I think the good teams all took too large hits (outside of SC), while the bad teams haven't stepped it up enough to fill the void. ASU was always a questionable good team. I never bought the hype, and now last night they lose to UNLV. Oregon is certainly not as good as they were with Dixon. UCLA lost a ton of players from last year's team, and now they're getting killed with injuries. Cal has lost some very good players the past couple years and not really replaced them. And you know how well Washington and Wazzu have been doing. Arizona and Oregon State and Stanford are on their way up, but I don't see any of them making a big leap.

No, this conference, this year has taken a step back, and I think BYU would contend with Oregon for the #2 spot in the league. Most other years, they're in the middle of the pack, like you say.

[Matthean]

Say, which SEC team was playing USC today?

Was it those great SEC wins against UAB, Rice, Samford, Western Kentucky and North Texas? Or was it the squeakers against Middle Tennessee State and North Texas?

Or last week's games against Southern Miss, Central Michigan, Norfolk States, Louisiana Monroe, SE Louisiana, Tulane, and Troy? Or week 1 with Miami (OH), Appalachain St, Georgia Southern, Memphis, Louisiana Monroe (again), and Western Illinois (or the loss to Louisiana Tech by Mississippi St)?

Yeah, so the only games the SEC has played so far is Mississippi losing to Wake Forest and Alabama beating Clemson. You want some minor points for a mediocre Miami team and 1-2 NC State since at least they're from the ACC and Florida graciously inviting over 1-2 Hawaii who isn't all the same team they were last year and on the road?

Don't give me this crap about how the SEC plays a tough conference schedule so they can go out and schedule patsies. It's not like the other BCS conferences have Norfolk State in them. At least Ohio State should get some credit for actually scheduling someone. Tho, to be fair, Georgia has to go out to ASU next week but that game looks a lot less impressive after the stumble by the Sun Devils this week will probably knock them out of the Top 25 (then again, this is why we need to start polls about week 6 but that's another argument for another day).

SI

1. What the hell does me saying OSU would be a 3 loss team in the SEC have to do with the SEC's lackluster OOC scheduling? The Big 10 isn't kicking out a possible schedule like Georgia, Florida, LSU, 'Bama, SC, Auburn, Tennessee, etc. As a person raised on SEC football via my Dad while living in MI, get the top four from each conference and match them up. Do you really see the Big Ten being favorably matched up?

2. Despite this lack of OOC scheduling, what conference has been winning the titles as of late? Lately, it's USC, or a team from the SEC. OSU's efforts the past two seasons in the title games have been lackluster to say the least.

3. A lackluster OOC schedule doesn't mean jack if you can keep up with the big boys when it matters. OSU is proving time and again it can't and it's been deemed the best of the conference at least the past 3 seasons. The history books don't care if you beat somebody in September. They remember who you beat in Janurary.

4. See some of those teams on your cupcake list? Big Ten schools have played some of them as well. And lost.

[Blade6119]

2. Despite this lack of OOC scheduling, what conference has been winning the titles as of late? Lately, it's USC, or a team from the SEC. OSU's efforts the past two seasons in the title games have been lackluster to say the least.

To be fair, which conference has been getting the benefit of the doubt to even play in the title game the past few years. Im not a Big 10 or SEC fan, but i find it hard for the SEC to use the whole look at our titles arguement when there were better teams out there then Ohio State for those title match ups. Now Ohio State was there because of their record, but LSU or Florida were hardly clear cut above other canidates the past 2 years for those second spots. They got in because people respect the SEC, not because they were necessarily the best squad. Play a USC or an OU and win, then ill be as impressed. But really, the SEC leaves the Southeast once a millenia(this UGA trip to ASU, which i commend), but thats far less then the other 5 BCS conferences. Part of proving your the best conference is going on the road and proving it. OSU lost, but their out there trying(like their Texas games). What is the SEC doing to prove its so great?

[MJ4H]

Winning bowl games.

[Chief Rum]

Winning bowl games.

Neutral games mostly set in SEC territory, last I checked your bowl lineups.

[MJ4H]

lol

[dawgfan]

UCLA would like to respectfully disagree
OK, BYU is better than I thought they were. Big, big win for them and the Pac-10 in general laid a huge turkey yesterday. So maybe this year BYU would be competing for 2nd. But I still think that with better coaching the UW beats BYU.

[TargetPractice6]

Say, which SEC team was playing USC today?

Was it those great SEC wins against UAB, Rice, Samford, Western Kentucky and North Texas? Or was it the squeakers against Middle Tennessee State and North Texas?

Or last week's games against Southern Miss, Central Michigan, Norfolk States, Louisiana Monroe, SE Louisiana, Tulane, and Troy? Or week 1 with Miami (OH), Appalachain St, Georgia Southern, Memphis, Louisiana Monroe (again), and Western Illinois (or the loss to Louisiana Tech by Mississippi St)?

Yeah, so the only games the SEC has played so far is Mississippi losing to Wake Forest and Alabama beating Clemson. You want some minor points for a mediocre Miami team and 1-2 NC State since at least they're from the ACC and Florida graciously inviting over 1-2 Hawaii who isn't all the same team they were last year and on the road?

Don't give me this crap about how the SEC plays a tough conference schedule so they can go out and schedule patsies. It's not like the other BCS conferences have Norfolk State in them. At least Ohio State should get some credit for actually scheduling someone. Tho, to be fair, Georgia has to go out to ASU next week but that game looks a lot less impressive after the stumble by the Sun Devils this week will probably knock them out of the Top 25 (then again, this is why we need to start polls about week 6 but that's another argument for another day).

SIThese days nearly every major conference team with any sort of aspiration plays at least three patsies. Nearly every SEC team plays either 1) a ranked team or 2) a team that was traditionally ranked at the time the schedule was made. The only exceptions seem to be LSU, who doesn't play anybody, and Mississippi St, who at least is making a trip to Georgie Tech.

I guess I just don't understand where the rant comes from when the USC-OSU game is the exception to the rule when it comes to out-of-conference scheduling throughout the BCS conferences. Even Kansas is playing the likes of Florida Intl., Louisiana Tech, and Sam Houston St.

[sterlingice]

I guess I just don't understand where the rant comes from when the USC-OSU game is the exception to the rule when it comes to out-of-conference scheduling throughout the BCS conferences. Even Kansas is playing the likes of Florida Intl., Louisiana Tech, and Sam Houston St.

The rant came out of the USC-OSU game because someone made a comment about how OSU would get at least 3 losses in the SEC.

And, while attacking Kansas seems like fun, how about some of the big boys and not the program that just had 1 good year after a decade of suck? I mean, we are 1 year removed from 6-6 (06) and 7-5 (05) and then 10 straight losing seasons. So I think we're allowed a little slack with our non-con schedule. I also seem to recall that we played a ranked team on the road in our meager non-conference schedule so maybe we're doing ok on that front.

SI

[TargetPractice6]

It wasn't meant as an attack on Kansas. Though you did manage to throw Kentucky's two games against Middle Tennessee and Norfolk State into your argument while omitting the win at Louisville, which admittedly is not as impressive as years past .

All I meant to say is pretty much every team these days plays 3/4 of their non-conference games against cupcakes. And based on their recent record against the conference, OSU likely would lose three in the SEC.

[miami_fan]

The rant came out of the USC-OSU game because someone made a comment about how OSU would get at least 3 losses in the SEC.

And, while attacking Kansas seems like fun, how about some of the big boys and not the program that just had 1 good year after a decade of suck? I mean, we are 1 year removed from 6-6 (06) and 7-5 (05) and then 10 straight losing seasons. So I think we're allowed a little slack with our non-con schedule. I also seem to recall that we played a ranked team on the road in our meager non-conference schedule so maybe we're doing ok on that front.

SI

I am not sure how your rant had anything to do with the comment though. That seemed like a rant for OSU scheduling USC or a critical view of the SEC OOC schedule. Or maybe it was rant against the SEC in general. I did not read anything for or against the idea that OSU would be a 3 loss team if they played in the SEC. {shrug}

[Vegas Vic]

And, while attacking Kansas seems like fun, how about some of the big boys and not the program that just had 1 good year after a decade of suck? I mean, we are 1 year removed from 6-6 (06) and 7-5 (05) and then 10 straight losing seasons. So I think we're allowed a little slack with our non-con schedule. I also seem to recall that we played a ranked team on the road in our meager non-conference schedule so maybe we're doing ok on that front.

Kansas had the stars in alignment last year, and they didn't have to play Texas or Oklahoma. They beat a vastly overrated Virginia Tech team in the Orange Bowl. If they make it to a BCS bowl this year, nobody will be able to say that they didn't earn it.

[Blade6119]

Kansas had the stars in alignment last year, and they didn't have to play Texas or Oklahoma. They beat a vastly overrated Virginia Tech team in the Orange Bowl. If they make it to a BCS bowl this year, nobody will be able to say that they didn't earn it.

That i would fully agree with

[Blade6119]

This goes back to last year, when Bradford lead the nation in passing efficiency. Even though OU beat Missouri 41-31 during the regular season, going into the Big XII Championship rematch all we heard was Chase Daniel this and Chase Daniel that, and that the first game was a fluke. After OU destroyed Missouri 38-17 in the Big XII Championship, some of the pollsters still had Missouri ranked ahead of OU.

*shurg*

Chase Daniel also has more touchdowns then incompletions over the the past 2 weeks, not to mention not having the OU O-line in front of him(which is in my mind the best o-line in the nation). Any QB can look amazing if they all day to throw. Sam Bradford gets all day to throw, while some of the other great QBs dont. As much as i dislike our mutual conference foe kansas, Reesing had no time to throw all game and still made play after play until that final INT. I have serious doubts about that taking place if you put Bradford in there. Hes a great game manager, but i dont think hes a gamebreaking QB. Maybe he will continue to develop into one and change my mind, but hes simply not there yet.

[Matthean]

Neutral games mostly set in SEC territory, last I checked your bowl lineups.

The Pac 10 gets their champ playing in the Rose Bowl. Big 12 has ties to the Cotton Bowl. A number of the more southern schools get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to traveling to their bowl games, ie Miami playing in the Orange Bowl. The Big Ten isn't so lucky.

[kingnebwsu]

I would have loved to see Ohio State play LSU in January in the Horseshoe or any other stadium in Ohio instead of LSU's pseudo-home field, the Superdome. I don't think the outcome would have been the same. Or it would have at least been closer.

[Chief Rum]

The Pac 10 gets their champ playing in the Rose Bowl. Big 12 has ties to the Cotton Bowl. A number of the more southern schools get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to traveling to their bowl games, ie Miami playing in the Orange Bowl. The Big Ten isn't so lucky.

What's your point? None of that detracts from mine.

[cartman]

I would have loved to see Ohio State play LSU in January in the Horseshoe or any other stadium in Ohio instead of LSU's pseudo-home field, the Superdome.

As would Texas have loved to have played USC at any other stadium than their pseduo-home field, the Rose Bowl.

Oh, wait... :D

[Matthean]

What's your point? None of that detracts from mine.

Just pointing out that it's not like the SEC is the only conference that has this advantage.

[Chief Rum]

Just pointing out that it's not like the SEC is the only conference that has this advantage.

Got it. I wasn't the one bringing up bowl games as examples of SEC playing tough OOC opponents on the road. That was MJ4H. I was just pointing out to him how little that qualifies as a "road" game.

And even if you gave the SEC the benefit of the doubt and called those tough "road" contests, the other big conferences get the same benefit, as you noted. So no difference there.

IMO, SEC has been pretty notorious for avoiding tough road games OOC.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pat Forde has an article up. Basically states that USC, Oklahoma, and Mizzou are the best three teams in the nation by a wide margin............

ESPN - College GameDay Final - College Football (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/notebook?page=notebook/gamedayFinal083)

[Kodos]

Even though it makes the Big 10 look bad, it is always nice to see OSU get humiliated. They've resorted to coming over to the IU boards to talk trash recently. Hey dude, whatever it takes to feel better, I guess.

[MJ4H]

Got it. I wasn't the one bringing up bowl games as examples of SEC playing tough OOC opponents on the road. That was MJ4H. I was just pointing out to him how little that qualifies as a "road" game.

And even if you gave the SEC the benefit of the doubt and called those tough "road" contests, the other big conferences get the same benefit, as you noted. So no difference there.

IMO, SEC has been pretty notorious for avoiding tough road games OOC.

I was making no equivalence between bowl games and road games. Bowl games and neutral site games, sure, but not road games. I was answering the question "what is the SEC doing to show how good it is?" or whatever it was exactly.

I think my answer was on point.

[cartman]

It dawned on me today, has any high school recruit flamed out as famously as Kirby Freeman? He had just about every Div. 1 school beating down his door in high school, and he chose Miami. He didn't play much his freshman year, but was still named Offensive Freshman of the Year. His Sophomore year he filled in rather well whenever Kyle Wright was injured, getting them bowl eligible and then leading them to victory in the bowl game, and named MVP of the game.

His Junior year, he seemed to completely forget how to throw the ball. Had some truly horrific performances. He fell out of favor with the coaches, and transferred to Baylor. He had another awful game, and was replaced by a true freshman the past two games. Baylor won those handily, and it appears that Freeman will only see the field in garbage time or if the new QB gets injured.

I can't remember such a rapid and complete fall in Division 1.

[DeToxRox]

It dawned on me today, has any high school recruit flamed out as famously as Kirby Freeman? He had just about every Div. 1 school beating down his door in high school, and he chose Miami. He didn't play much his freshman year, but was still named Offensive Freshman of the Year. His Sophomore year he filled in rather well whenever Kyle Wright was injured, getting them bowl eligible and then leading them to victory in the bowl game, and named MVP of the game.

His Junior year, he seemed to completely forget how to throw the ball. Had some truly horrific performances. He fell out of favor with the coaches, and transferred to Baylor. He had another awful game, and was replaced by a true freshman the past two games. Baylor won those handily, and it appears that Freeman will only see the field in garbage time or if the new QB gets injured.

I can't remember such a rapid and complete fall in Division 1.

Willie Williams? Not sure it counts but .. he has flamed out pretty bad.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I can't remember such a rapid and complete fall in Division 1.

Perriloux?

[Dr. Sak]

Willie Williams? Not sure it counts but .. he has flamed out pretty bad.

He had many counts against him BEFORE he even enrolled.

[cartman]

Perriloux?

He still can play. It was his off the field behavior that booted him to Div. 1AA.

[DeToxRox]

If we're talking guys who looked good, then rapidly declined instead of getting better, Reggie McNeal comes to mind, as well as Marcus Vick.

I think it's these athlete type QB's in general, who are in the wrong system and never learn to become better passers, they just rely on their legs to get them out of trouble.

[DeToxRox]

He had many counts against him BEFORE he even enrolled.

Oh I know it, but he was given every shot ever to do something and has fucked up at four schools now.

[DeToxRox]

Oh, I forgot Boobie Miles.

[DeToxRox]

Here is a question .. I was checking Rivals old top 150 lists and in 2002 and 2003, Mississippi State had some amazing classes. So what exactly happened with these five star kids they had?

[Dr. Sak]

I bet most of them didn't even qualify and never made it to Miss St.

[DeToxRox]

I bet most of them didn't even qualify and never made it to Miss St.

My thinking as well.

Gotta love SEC recruiting!

What'd Bama have this year, 35 commits, assuming 10 wouldn't make it? And shockingly, less then 10 didn't make it so Saban had to cut kids away after Signing Day.

[Blade6119]

I was making no equivalence between bowl games and road games. Bowl games and neutral site games, sure, but not road games. I was answering the question "what is the SEC doing to show how good it is?" or whatever it was exactly.

I think my answer was on point.

But in my point, the one you responded to, i was talking about Ohio State going on the road OOC against USC to prove itself. I was talking about playing tough games on the road, and you really didn't answer it at all.

[MJ4H]

But in my point, the one you responded to, i was talking about Ohio State going on the road OOC against USC to prove itself. I was talking about playing tough games on the road, and you really didn't answer it at all.

Again what I responded to was the question "what is the SEC doing to prove its so great"

[larrymcg421]

Reading some of these comments, I'm starting to think people don't realize just how bad Kirby Freeman was. Many of the guys listed at least played good games once in a while, even if thye never lived up to their potential and/or eventually bottomed out.

In 2007, he attempted 58 passes, completed only 18 of them, for 256 yards. That's a 31% completion rate. He also had 6 INT's and 3 TD's. He had a comical game against NC State where he completed an 84 yard TD pass and that was his only completion of the game. He finished 1 of 14 for 84 yards, 1 TD, and 3 INT. His only real highlight was throwing the winning TD pass against FSU. Also, even in his good season (2006), he threw 7 TD's and 8 INT's.

The Hurricanes have had their share of underacheiving QB's (Frank Costa, Kenny Kelly, Ryan Collins, Brock Berlin, Scott Covington, Ryan Clement), but none was nearly as bad as Freeman. When he was on the field, I was begging Randy Shannon to put Kyle Wright back out there. That should say it all right there.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For those that have never seen Chase Coffman play, here's a great example of what happens when he gets loose in the secondary. He gets overshadowed at times at Mizzou by people like Daniel and Maclin, but he's awfully good. Coffman, much like his dad, is going to be a great NFL player..............

YouTube - Chase Coffman Stiffarms Nevada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wReRTp5DY2w)

[Dr. Sak]

In 2007, he attempted 58 passes, completed only 18 of them, for 256 yards. That's a 31% completion rate. He also had 6 INT's and 3 TD's. He had a comical game against NC State where he completed an 84 yard TD pass and that was his only completion of the game. He finished 1 of 14 for 84 yards, 1 TD, and 3 INT. His only real highlight was throwing the winning TD pass against FSU. Also, even in his good season (2006), he threw 7 TD's and 8 INT's.


Those stats make Reggie Ball look like an All-American!