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DeltaWhiskey
09-15-2008, 05:15 AM
BACKGROUND:
I began applying statistical analysis procedures to draft data with the hope of improving my draft success and to learn a bit about how FOF works. I conducted 2 sims to provide me 2 draft classes (1600+ players). I used this data to create regression equations to predict the CUR/FUT ratings for Pre TC and Preseason WK1 (before/after TC). After presenting some general information regarding the findings as they relate to the PRE TC CUR scores in another thread here, I learned that there seems to be little interest in this particular rating, and that in particular, interest in predicting ratings much further in the future (up to 4yrs) was desired. Someday, I may put together a data set to explore this. For now I'm happy predicting Preseason WK1 FUT ratings.

In this thread, I'm going to present the results of some additional data mining from this data set. Essentially, I was curious as to what, if any, are the differences between players I'll call the Wheat and the Chaff. The variable of interest is the Preseason WK1 FUT scores. Wheat players are players who at this point are showing the potential to be Excellent, while the Chaff refers to those who are Good to Very Good.

METHOD:
The Wheat category consisted of all players w/ Preseason WK1 FUT rating > 65, and the chaff was defined as any player w/ a Preseason WK1 FUT rating ranging from 50 to 64.
Wheat: n = 31
Chaff: n = 130
To assess differences between the Wheat and chaff, I conducted a series of one-tailed t-Tests on the pre-draft data (i.e. 40yd dash, agility, etc.), including an additional variable, Average Ability (AVG ABI). AVG ABI is simply the average of all of the numbers for bar scores from Extractor output for each player.

RESULTS:
After running the t-tests for height, weight, volatility, Sol, 40Y, Bench, Agility, Broad Jump, Pos Drill, % Developed and AVG ABI, only average AVG ABI yielded a significant difference at the p<0.05 level. This suggests that any differences between the Wheat and chaff groups on Combines (e.g. 40Y, Bench, etc.) and other measures (e.g. Sol, Height, Weight, etc.) are most likely due to chance, while there is a less than 5% chance that the difference between the Wheat and chaff on AVG ABI is due to chance.

For AVG ABI:
Mean Wheat = 69.87 (SD = 8.11)
Mean chaff = 56.83 (SD = 7.45)

Twenty-four players scored greater than 69 on AVG ABI. Seventeen (70.8%) of those had a PreWK1 Fut score of 65 or greater, and of the remaining seven, all were rated as 55 or better.
>69 AVG ABI = 24
>69 AVG ABI = 24 and >= 65 PreWK1 FUT = 17
>69 AVG ABI = 24 and < 65 PreWK1 FUT = 7 (64,50,53,63,62,62,55)*
*PreWK1FUT ratings for 7 players w/ AVG ABI > 69 and PreWK1 FUT < 65)

DISCUSSION:
These results suggest that on average, selecting a player whose AVG ABI is greater than 69 will yield a player with a more than respectable Preseason WK1 FUT rating 70% of the time and a decent player 30% of the time. Undoubtably, there are going to be random situations where this is not the case, and a true dud may slip through from time to time; however, this should be farely rare. Additionally, the quality of the scout may play a role into the utility of this measure (AVG ABI).

There is also the possibility, that because of how I conducted the data analysis (multiple t-tests), I may be capitalizing on chance associated with running multiple t-tests, and there is no difference between Wheat and chaff; however, looking at the difference between means and the standard deviation for each group, I suspect this not the case.
Lastly, it is unclear if the Preseason WK1 FUT rating is of any value. At this time I prefer it as a rating of draftees, as it is the most "pure" measure available. That is, while being able to predict a players end of year CUR ratings four years out is desirable, there are potentially many interfering factors to account for (playing time, multiple training camps, mentors, coaches, etc.) with this measure. After the first training camp, the scout has gotten a good look, and only one other event (Training Camp) has occurred to effect player development.

QuikSand
09-15-2008, 07:42 AM
For now I'm happy predicting Preseason WK1 FUT ratings.

Okay then, good luck with that. *shurg*

wade moore
09-15-2008, 08:05 AM
Lastly, it is unclear if the Preseason WK1 FUT rating is of any value.

I think a lot of people did a good job trying to explain this to you in the other thread, but in the end I think the answer to this question is "it's not".

Yes, there are other variables in year 4 wk1 fut rating, but it tells you a lot more than the preseason wk1 fut of their 1st season.

DeltaWhiskey
09-15-2008, 09:01 AM
I think a lot of people did a good job trying to explain this to you in the other thread, but in the end I think the answer to this question is "it's not".

Yes, there are other variables in year 4 wk1 fut rating, but it tells you a lot more than the preseason wk1 fut of their 1st season.

If "it's not," why have any ratings at that point at all?

Let me be clear, I understand Preseason WK1 FUT rating tells little, but is there another number, piece of information or whatever one should look at, right after the draft, to assess whether this was a successful draft or not? I'm not trying to estimate the "true" hidden rating that will eventually emerge (presumably near or at the end of year 4) as there are clearly other factors (playing time, affinity, coaching, etc. - not to mention the random dice rolls) that begin to influence whether or not that number (potential) can be or will be achieved. Most of these latter variables are less easy to measure objectively.

Essentially, what I'm assuming/hoping w/ the Preseason WK1 FUT rating is that I have a number that tells me if I have a player with at least an upside if I do things correctly (find mentors, hire good coaches, give playing time, etc.).

Matthean
09-15-2008, 09:17 AM
Essentially, what I'm assuming/hoping w/ the Preseason WK1 FUT rating is that I have a number that tells me if I have a player with at least an upside if I do things correctly (find mentors, hire good coaches, give playing time, etc.).

If you want upside, interview them. Two players can be rated as good. One could be interviewed as very overrated and the other as very underrated. No amount of combines will tell you that. Poppers(players with 40+ pop) will be a tell towards saying if the player pans out. There are issues with this as well though.

1. Poppers tend to be within the first 5 spots within their position so they are highly rated anyway. This is the same issue with your case study. You are looking at quality guys to begin with.

2. Poppers can, and will be interviewed as very overrated. A Popper might start out as being 70 rated, but then be a bust while still going to be fairly decently rated all things considered. Let's say they drop to 54. 54 is still Good, but you likely just wasted a higher pick on a player that you didn't need to.

wade moore
09-15-2008, 09:22 AM
If "it's not," why have any ratings at that point at all?

Let me be clear, I understand Preseason WK1 FUT rating tells little, but is there another number, piece of information or whatever one should look at, right after the draft, to assess whether this was a successful draft or not?

The only thing valuable at this stage is movement in ratings. A guy who goes up a few points in future is generally going to continue to improve and a guy who goes down a few is generally going to continue to go down.

Most FOF Veterans judge initially success of a draft based on the movement, up or down, of the future rating after a guy goes through Training Camp.

I would continue to encourage you though that if you want a true predictor of whether a player is GOOD, you cannot just use 1 year to determine that.

QuikSand
09-15-2008, 10:17 AM
...is there another number, piece of information or whatever one should look at, right after the draft, to assess whether this was a successful draft or not?

I think there are enough elements in what you have at that point to come up with a pretty good proxy for "where is this guy heading?" A combination of his future rating at that point, the camp movement in same, and a little of his current rating would be the elements.