The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Thread

[Travis]

In fairness, I did say "maybe" on Andre. But I also wouldn't expect him to be one of the first ten WR's that someone named either (in spite of leading the league in both yards and catches this season).

I'll stick with the Calvin comparison. Both are in their second seasons and garner headlines pretty much solely for their play on the field/ice rather than off the field. Both are playing for teams that have underachieved for quite some time in a market that still has a pretty passionate fan base even in tough times. Both had pretty impressive rookie seasons and can take over games at times and appear to be stepping into the elite levels at their respective positions during their second seasons.

Either way, to somebody brand new to the sport, they probably wouldn't hear much about either guy until seeing highlights of their games or checking the box scores, but after watching them play, it'd be that aspect of their personality they'd be left wanting more of, and if not, then football or hockey is likely not the sport for them to spend much time on.

Publicity wise, it's incumbent on the NHL to find a way to market those types of players, not somebody like Avery who has never scored more than 15 goals in a season or even reached 40 points. They've pushed Crosby at every corner, had Ovechkin become a sensation pretty much on his own, but they really need to find a way to make more faces recognizable, faces that represent the sport and not their own notoriety.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but they really need to find a way to make more faces recognizable, faces that represent the sport and not their own notoriety.

See, now we can agree on that by & large. But it's tougher to do when you're dealing with so many players who speak limited amounts of English and nearly a quarter of your teams are located outside the top 30 media markets.

edit to add: As for marketing Avery, the league doesn't have to, he's more than capable of handling that himself. Just stay the hell out of his way is all they have to do.

[Travis]

edit to add: As for marketing Avery, the league doesn't have to, he's more than capable of handling that himself. Just stay the hell out of his way is all they have to do.

Yes, he can market himself, but we're discussing marketing the league, two totally different things as I tried to point out with the quote from Spector's blog. If he wants to market himself he can go the way of Pacman Jones and spend some time on TNA Wrestling if they're still looking for that kind of flavor.

[johnnyshaka]

Wait a minute. What happened to your whole "best players in the world" argument from earlier? What would ham & eggers even have to do with the situation ... unless you're facing becoming a semi-pro league.

The fact that there are ham & eggers at all is the point. Guys willing to eat Kraft Dinner 7 days a week to play a sport versus pushing paper behind a desk from 9-5, where they could make more money, tells me that guys making X millions of dollars aren't all of a sudden going to give it all up to flip burgers because they were forced to take ANOTHER pay cut. That's right...it's already happened...low and behold, we still have our NHL and still have the best players in the world.

My point is, and has been throughout the thread, that it seems incredibly shortsighted for the league to suspend Avery for his comments when he's done more to generate media interest (and consequently an opportunity for interest among the general public) in a few days than 10 *Patrick Marleau's have done or will do in a lifetime.

How does a guy spewing crude comments (as characterized by just about everybody on the planet except for you) create good PR for a league that is fighting to retain/increase the size of their audience? They are trying attract more than just the "rubberneckers checking out the carnage" because the attention span of those folks is, well it's gone already, nevermind. Instead they are trying to attract kids and kids don't need to hear that garbage and nor should parents have to explain what the comment means.

A league full of Avery's likely wouldn't work on a national scale & I'm not suggesting they would. The Malkin's/Crosby's/Ovechkin's provide the skill with flash to be the primary focal points. But those guys are considerably more marketable with a few Avery's in the mix for flavor. Heroes need villains to play off, how many people in recent memory have been better suited for the role than Avery?

If Avery adds to the marketability of the "stars" of the league then tell me if ticket sales have slumped or not when the Rangers have visited Pittsburgh or Washington so far this season. Without even looking, I'm going to say that, no, attendance hasn't changed one bit.

Avery plays for a last place team with, by your admission, who is one of the worst drawing road teams but yet you still insist that he adds value. I'm still not seeing it.

Look (and hopefully learn) from the example that NASCAR provides. A primarily regional sport that grew beyond anyone's wildest imagination in large part due to the personalities that emerged. And it seems no coincidence that they've hit a plateau as they (in part) legislated most of those personalities out of the business. Avery at least provides the potential for a watershed moment along the lines of the Allison/Yarborough infield fight at Daytona in '79. That was not the most dramatic moment in the sport nor the most exciting by a long shot ... but it was one of the most interesting & became one of the defining moments. There hasn't been a defining moment in hockey for the majority of the available North American audience since Al Michaels talked about miracles and even that has virtually no connection to the NHL.

Right off the bat I'll admit that my only exposure to NASCAR is Talledega Nights and I only saw that movie because Will Ferrell makes me laugh out loud. I don't know who Allison or Yarborough are nor could I name more than a handful of drivers and only because they appeared in Ferrell's movie. That's coming from a guy who's been living here for 10 years, likely the most "redneck" part of the country and I still haven't taken any sort of interest. I have friends who follow it, but they are few and far between. That isn't an attack on the sport by any means, I just don't have an interest in it.

Regardless of my ignorance about the past, present, and future of NASCAR, how is it that Avery is more likely than anybody else to give the US the dramatic defining moment that you apparently need the NHL to have? McSorley clubbing Brashear over the heard or the Bertuzzi BS weren't enough? I mean, if senseless violence is what you call drama and a defining moment, then open your eyes...there's been lots of it already. Instead, I think you'll find that the US rejects those moments and the league would love for neither of them to have ever happened because it only detracts from the game and it's success in some of the virgining US markets that Betteman so desperately wants.

Inticing kids and teenagers to watch the game is the only way to grow it in the States and it has worked, without exploiting the antics of guys like Avery, as evidenced by the increase in US-born NHL players, the US' success at the World Juniors in recent years, and the rise in popularity of NCAA hockey. Like it or not, the NHL IS invading the US and is there to stay.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Regardless of my ignorance about the past, present, and future of NASCAR, how is it that Avery is more likely than anybody else to give the US the dramatic defining moment that you apparently need the NHL to have?

Because he is, likable or not, interesting. He has some recognizable form of personality, unlike the vast majority of players who come & go through the NHL and have for most of the 30+ years I've followed the league.

Let me pick on my own team for an example here, There's really no appreciable difference between the interest generated by Eric Perrin vs Kevin Doell vs Jason Krog vs Serge Aubin (trying to pick out our 3rd line centers, since Avery's contributions were dissed earlier). They're generic hockey players. The occasional Avery on the other hand, at least the guy is interesting, you pay attention to what he does.

Those young fans you mentioned? I see plenty of them at minor league games, hell they're often close to half the crowd. And what gets them buzzing? Flashy scorers and the fighters, often the latter more popular than the former, just as it's been for as long as I can remember. And if it's a player who shows some personality with some showboating as part of his fighting style, they'll blow the roof off for the guy. You think teenagers wouldn't have gotten at least a chuckle out of Avery's comment? If you believe that they're being attracted just by guys who can skate & have sound fundamentals then you're out of your tree.

[Travis]

If you honestly believe that promoting a third rate player who's best material is going after a player's girlfriend through the media (and as others have said, if he wasn't reprimanded after this, what would his next target have been if he carried on down that road), who would have then turtled like nobodies business when confronted on the ice is a better idea than marketing a young potentially elite talent like Patrick Kane, then I really have to question why you watch the sport to begin with.

You can talk about how English is a second language for some of their stars, but there are more than enough Canadian and American players around to market through ads and interviews and the sport has had a lot of personality in it and players (Roenick and Hull being two of the more recent ones) who were star calibre as well as "entertaining", but in a manner positive to the game. This isn't wrestling and they don't need trumped up bad guys for the fans to root against. The XFL didn't make that marketing plan work and it'll be a black day indeed if the NHL goes down that road.

Using your own example, that's where contraction may be the answer. Eliminate how many "meh" players each team have and you'll see more consistent exciting action on the ice. Ales Hemsky gives a pretty mundane interview, but he's one of those guys who'll make you hold your breath when the puck is on his stick. That's the sort of thing the league needs more of, not wondering when Avery will start doing jumping jacks in front of the crease.

[johnnyshaka]

Because he is, likable or not, interesting. He has some recognizable form of personality, unlike the vast majority of players who come & go through the NHL and have for most of the 30+ years I've followed the league.

Sorry, I guess we just aren't ever going to agree that Avery is interesting. In all honesty, after being subjected to Avery-mania during the Oilers/Stars game the other night I haven't watched a single highlight since...something I usually do at least a couple of times a day.

Let me pick on my own team for an example here, There's really no appreciable difference between the interest generated by Eric Perrin vs Kevin Doell vs Jason Krog vs Serge Aubin (trying to pick out our 3rd line centers, since Avery's contributions were dissed earlier). They're generic hockey players. The occasional Avery on the other hand, at least the guy is interesting, you pay attention to what he does.

You, yourself, have already said that NOBODY, in Dallas or otherwise, cares to pay to see what Avery does game in and game out.

Those young fans you mentioned? I see plenty of them at minor league games, hell they're often close to half the crowd. And what gets them buzzing? Flashy scorers and the fighters, often the latter more popular than the former, just as it's been for as long as I can remember. And if it's a player who shows some personality with some showboating as part of his fighting style, they'll blow the roof off for the guy. You think teenagers wouldn't have gotten at least a chuckle out of Avery's comment? If you believe that they're being attracted just by guys who can skate & have sound fundamentals then you're out of your tree.

Scorers and fighters...exactly, Avery is neither.

You're right, teenagers probably thought it hilarious and probably promptly starting joking with each other about it...so what, they find boogers interesting...what's your point?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Because he is, likable or not, interesting. He has some recognizable form of personality, unlike the vast majority of players who come & go through the NHL and have for most of the 30+ years I've followed the league.


Dr Sak back me up on this-

Max Talbot is, after Crosby and Malkin, arguably the 3rd most popular Penguin. He is a "plugger", former 8th round pick. I'd gather though, outside of Pittsburgh, nobody who considers themself a casual fan knows who he is. Yet in Pittsburgh, he does more local commercials and spots than Crosby and Malkin. (So was Colby Armstrong before being shipped to Atlanta last year.)

He's not an asshole, and he's not generating headlines league wide, but I'll guarantee you, he's retained people to the sport, by, I guess, being interesting and promoting the team. No me me me shit. But his name has never been on ESPN (well, other than the goal to force triple OT in game 5 of the SCF).

TO, Pacman Jones and Rae Carruth were interesting too, since they made big news. I don't know if that means what they did helped the NFL.

NASCAR, I'd gather, has a smaller % following in Canada than the NHL does in the US. So, therefore I guess it's the equivlent of the WNBA.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Calling the people only into the fights "hockey fans" would be like calling the people only into the crashes "racing fans"

[RomaGoth]

I have been a hockey fan since I was a little kid. The problem with hockey, and indeed the NHL, is that it is not a TV friendly sport. Having grown up with it (Red Wings fan since before Yzerman was a rookie), I enjoy watching hockey on TV and can follow the flow and know where the puck is. People who are new to the sport, however, are not always so adept. They lose interest because they can't keep track of what is going on. Fox tried a bunch of nonsense with glowing pucks and all back when they carried the games, but it looked and was a third rate job to be sure. The NHL needs national exposure, and the Vs. network it not cutting it. They obviously need to market their game better, and they need players like Crosby, Zetterberg, Kane, and Ovechkin to do national commercials and promotions, not just local stuff. Even people who knew little about hockey knew who Wayne Gretzky was in the 90's. The NHL needs to do that again with the new generation of players, but they need to step it up a notch.

As for Avery, he is not even worth the argument going on here for the last page and a half. We all know is a gutless runt who would run if Phaneuf came after him. The NHL does not need the publicity he brings, it needs the opposite. For someone to say that he is giving the NHL nice media exposure is just uninformed. Look at the NFL. Is it a popular league? Yes, the most popular in the US. Unfortunately, it is gaining a reputation as a league of gun-toting juvenile delinquents. I doubt that is what Roger Goodell and the owners want to see. The NHL will not allow idiots like Avery to run rampant and ruin the sport.

[samifan24]

I thought I read somewhere online that the NHLPA is not happy with Versus and is actively lobbying for the league to return to the ESPN family of networks.

[johnnyshaka]

Can't get away from Avery-mania...watching the Oilers/Kings game and the commentators were talking about Kings' captain, Dustin Brown, who has a lisp, and how Avery, a former teammate, used to make fun of him right to his face.

Yup, he's interesting alright.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dr Sak back me up on this-

Max Talbot is, after Crosby and Malkin, arguably the 3rd most popular Penguin.... But his name has never been on ESPN (well, other than the goal to force triple OT in game 5 of the SCF).

Uh, the only reason Max Talbot scored that goal was because he was sitting next to Gary Roberts right before he went out on the ice. So, in reality, it was Gary Roberts who scored that goal. Don't you watch "Coach's Corner"?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Can't get away from Avery-mania...watching the Oilers/Kings game and the commentators were talking about Kings' captain, Dustin Brown, who has a lisp, and how Avery, a former teammate, used to make fun of him right to his face.

Yup, he's interesting alright.

Not surprisingly, there's been quite a bit written about him in Detroit since he came up with the Wings. Avery lived with Chris Chelios and his family during the lockout. Chelios kicked him out after three weeks because he turned the Chelios household "upside down."

The guy's just a prick. Plain and simple.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Uh, the only reason Max Talbot scored that goal was because he was sitting next to Gary Roberts right before he went out on the ice. So, in reality, it was Gary Roberts who scored that goal. Don't you watch "Coach's Corner"?

Actually, I was wrong earlier when I called him a plugger. He is a superstar. That is why he scored.

YouTube - Funny Pittsburgh Penguins Car Commercial, airing on FSN HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOrvdvczpEA)

YouTube - Funny Pittsburgh Penguin Car Commercial Part II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ0TST2GTM4&NR=1)

[Maple Leafs]

Fun random reminder of great moments in hockey history: Go to hockey-reference.com and type "chev" into the search engine.

[Maple Leafs]

Because he is, likable or not, interesting. He has some recognizable form of personality, unlike the vast majority of players who come & go through the NHL and have for most of the 30+ years I've followed the league.
Sure, he's recognizable thanks to his relentless self-promotion. That's the difference. He's not promoting the game or the league or his team. It's all about him.

I'm tired of hearing about how the NHL doesn't have interesting personalities. They have plenty. But it's tough to promote those guys when you have a third-liner stealing the attention with his ridiculous behaviour.

Here's an analogy: the NHL is like a school play, trying to show off the various talents of the kids. Maybe it's not the greatest production in the world, but it's not bad. And Sean Avery is the little brat who runs out to the front of the stage and starts doing a "look-at-me" dance to get the attention.

At first it might be cute. Then it's gets annoying. And eventually the school principal needs to yank the kid off the stage by his arm and tell him to shut up and settle down.

[NoSkillz]

A game between two cellar-dwellers got much more interesting from a Buffalo perspective, as the Sabres have called up 5'6" Nathan Gerbe to play in his first NHL game.

Gerbe starred for three years at Boston College and looks to be an offensive dynamo with a chip on his shoulder due to his lack of size. Looking forward to seeing him in action - hopefully Lindy puts him with Vanek or on one of the top two lines to show what he's capable of.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm tired of hearing about how the NHL doesn't have interesting personalities.

Obviously we disagree on that point, not that there aren't any but what I would call an insufficient number.

[Galaxy]

A game between two cellar-dwellers got much more interesting from a Buffalo perspective, as the Sabres have called up 5'6" Nathan Gerbe to play in his first NHL game.

Gerbe starred for three years at Boston College and looks to be an offensive dynamo with a chip on his shoulder due to his lack of size. Looking forward to seeing him in action - hopefully Lindy puts him with Vanek or on one of the top two lines to show what he's capable of.

Whoa...They have???????? Who's out?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Whoa...They have???????? Who's out?

ESPN - Buffalo Sabres call up Nathan Gerbe from AHL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3749894)
To make room for Gerbe, the Sabres returned Mark Mancari to Portland. The rookie right wing had a goal and assist in seven games with Buffalo.

[Galaxy]

ESPN - Buffalo Sabres call up Nathan Gerbe from AHL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3749894)
To make room for Gerbe, the Sabres returned Mark Mancari to Portland. The rookie right wing had a goal and assist in seven games with Buffalo.

It's so interesting to watch him. A 5'6'' guy on the ice.

[Galaxy]

What a strange game. Hecht and LeCalivier just got into a fight (and not exactly sure why).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVh6qsfSOcA

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's so interesting to watch him. A 5'6'' guy on the ice.

If they wear dark jerseys it may be tough to differentiate him from the puck ;)

edit to add: At 5'6" he becomes the league's shortest player, one inch smaller than Brian Gionta & Brett Sterling.

[NoSkillz]

I like him out there...quite a little sparkplug. Finishes his first game at +2 and the Sabres win.

Now if we could just unload Afinogenov...anyone willing to give us the proverbial bag of pucks for him?

[RomaGoth]

Datsyuk in the Shootout for the Wings' win. Even though I hate the Blackhawks, I love seeing the old rivalries and original six teams come to life again. Well, except for the Leafs.......:D

[Sublime 2]

If they wear dark jerseys it may be tough to differentiate him from the puck ;)

edit to add: At 5'6" he becomes the league's shortest player, one inch smaller than Brian Gionta & Brett Sterling.

BC likes those short little pansies!

[Honolulu_Blue]

As if the piss poor record wasn't enough evidence to convince everyone that the new Tampa Bay ownership doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

Here is a list of their significant transactions since the start of June. Guys in bold have already come and gone with the team.

June 3 Fired John Tortorella
June 24 Named Barry Melrose head coach
June 30 Gary Roberts Signed as free agent
June 30 Ryan Malone Signed as free agent
June 30 Vaclav Prospal Signed as free agent
July 1 Radim Vrbata Signed as free agent
July 4 Matt Carle Traded from San Jose for Dan Boyle, Brad Lukowich
July 8 Mark Recchi Signed to one-year deal
July 11 Chris Gratton Signed to one-year deal
July 11 Resignation of GM Jay Feaster
August 29 Andrej Meszaros Traded from Ottawa for Filip Kuba
Oct 2 Michel Ouellet Sent to minors
Oct 6 Lukas Krajicek Traded from Vancouver for Michel Ouellet
Oct 21 Matt Pettinger Claimed off waivers
Oct 23 Marek Malik Signed as Free Agent
Nov 7 Matt Carle Traded to Philadelphia for Steve Eminger, Steve Downie
Nov 14 Fired Barry Melrose
Dec 8 Radim Vrbata Placed on waivers
Dec 8 Chris Gratton Placed on waivers

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/mc/comments/tampa_bays_revolving_door/

[Dr. Sak]

Thanks Tampa for Carle and for taking the headache Downie away.

[Galaxy]

Speaking of ownership, I guess Tom Golisano is in early talks to sell the Buffalo Sabres.

[johnnyshaka]

Sounds like Vrbata is going to head home (he's Czech) for the rest of the year...saving the Lighting his cap hit this year. Guess he's still under contract with the Lightning for the next two years, if he comes back to the NHL.

[Galaxy]

God I hate the love fest by the refs and VS with Cindy Crosby.

[Dr. Sak]

God I hate the love fest by the refs and VS with Cindy Crosby.

Welcome to Hollywood!

[Fidatelo]

To all the fans of teams not from Pittsburgh, do yourselves a favor and take some advice from me: do not spend the next 10-15 years hating Sidney Crosby. I understand; he is kind of whiny; he gets favorable treatment; too much press; and he may likely end your team's chances at a Cup a few times. I hated a guy like that once, his name was Wayne Gretzky, and he made a point of saving his best performances for games against my beloved Jets.

It took the Jets leaving and Wayne to hit his twilight years for me to appreciate him for what he was, and to realise how much I missed out on because of my anger towards him.

I never saw all the beautiful plays; I just saw a scrawny little guy killing my team. Looking back, I really wish I'd have appreciated him for the spectacular talent he was, and relished those games against the Jets to see something so rare right in front of me.

Don't be like me with Wayne. Don't miss out on Sid.

[samifan24]

I don't really hate Crosby and I really, really like Ovechkin. I think both players and many of their fellow stars are great for the game.

[Chief Rum]

I don't really hate Crosby and I really, really like Ovechkin. I think both players and many of their fellow stars are great for the game.

Meh, they're all in the lesser conference, so I don't pay much attention. :D

[johnnyshaka]

To all the fans of teams not from Pittsburgh, do yourselves a favor and take some advice from me: do not spend the next 10-15 years hating Sidney Crosby. I understand; he is kind of whiny; he gets favorable treatment; too much press; and he may likely end your team's chances at a Cup a few times. I hated a guy like that once, his name was Wayne Gretzky, and he made a point of saving his best performances for games against my beloved Jets.

It took the Jets leaving and Wayne to hit his twilight years for me to appreciate him for what he was, and to realise how much I missed out on because of my anger towards him.

I never saw all the beautiful plays; I just saw a scrawny little guy killing my team. Looking back, I really wish I'd have appreciated him for the spectacular talent he was, and relished those games against the Jets to see something so rare right in front of me.

Don't be like me with Wayne. Don't miss out on Sid.

I still miss Wayne...and always will.

[Dr. Sak]

I appreciate Sid but can't stand him at the same time. Cant really root for a guy on a rival's team. I was the same way with Jagr.

[Logan]

I appreciate Crosby because it brings out the venom in Sak. You should see some of the PMs he sent me during last year's playoffs. Classic stuff that could possibility earn him a restraining order.

[Fidatelo]

I appreciate Sid but can't stand him at the same time. Cant really root for a guy on a rival's team. I was the same way with Jagr.

Jagr was never on the same level of a Gretzky, Orr, or Crosby. Hating Jagr was, and still is, a perfectly legitimate emotion that I suspect few people would ever regret.

[Dr. Sak]

Jagr was never on the same level of a Gretzky, Orr, or Crosby. Hating Jagr was, and still is, a perfectly legitimate emotion that I suspect few people would ever regret.

I was referring more to Jagr playing for both the Rangers and Pens.

But seriously I understand what you mean. He has amazing vision and is so strong with the puck. I almost blame the NHL for the overadvertisement of Crosby.

Ovechkin on the other hand is my favorite non-Flyer. I love watching the guy.

[Maple Leafs]

I never saw all the beautiful plays; I just saw a scrawny little guy killing my team. Looking back, I really wish I'd have appreciated him for the spectacular talent he was, and relished those games against the Jets to see something so rare right in front of me.
Wait, so you had psychological problems seeing things that Wayne Gretzky did?

Are you Kerry Fraser?

[RomaGoth]

I still miss Wayne...and always will.

Lemieux was a better player, and would have taken over all of Gretzky's records if not for injuries and cancer that limited his playing time. I never liked Gretzky because of his constant whining and lack of two-way play. He was a great offensive player to be sure, but in my mind Lemieux was better in every area of the game except for possibly passing....

[ISiddiqui]

That's like saying that Gale Sayers would have had better records than Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith if it wasn't for his bad knees. Longevity does count in greatness.

[bbor]

Wait, so you had psychological problems seeing things that Wayne Gretzky did?

Are you Kerry Fraser?

Classic!!

[Fidatelo]

Lemieux was a better player, and would have taken over all of Gretzky's records if not for injuries and cancer that limited his playing time. I never liked Gretzky because of his constant whining and lack of two-way play. He was a great offensive player to be sure, but in my mind Lemieux was better in every area of the game except for possibly passing....

I don't believe Lemieux was a better two way player. Lemieux was indeed more talented overall, and the injuries/cancer certainly held him back. That said, he also never had the work ethic or heart that Gretzky had. Perhaps he wouldn't have had the back issues if he had worked out a little more?

Anyways, bottom line is that if I desperately needed a guy to go out for one shift and score a goal, I'd throw Lemieux over the boards, but in almost any other situation I'd choose Gretzky.

[johnnyshaka]

Lemieux was a better player, and would have taken over all of Gretzky's records if not for injuries and cancer that limited his playing time. I never liked Gretzky because of his constant whining and lack of two-way play. He was a great offensive player to be sure, but in my mind Lemieux was better in every area of the game except for possibly passing....

Yeah, Lemieux never whined or complained...riiiiight.

Who has the most career shorthanded goals?? One hint...it isn't Mario.

[Fidatelo]

Wait, so you had psychological problems seeing things that Wayne Gretzky did?

Are you Kerry Fraser?

Haha, no I'm not.


Or am I.... :D

[Travis]

Lemieux was a better player, and would have taken over all of Gretzky's records if not for injuries and cancer that limited his playing time. I never liked Gretzky because of his constant whining and lack of two-way play. He was a great offensive player to be sure, but in my mind Lemieux was better in every area of the game except for possibly passing....

It's a conversation that will never go away because of Mario's health and backers on both sides can point to stats to try and back up their side of things, but in the end, both were phenomenal players.

I'm a Gretzky backer in that discussion and wish Mario had been healthier so that the verdict could have been answered on the ice. As it is I wish I had been old enough to really appreciate what I was getting to see rather than growing up believing that this was the "norm" for the sport.

[RomaGoth]

Yeah, Lemieux never whined or complained...riiiiight.

Who has the most career shorthanded goals?? One hint...it isn't Mario.

I never said that Lemieux didn't whine. All great players whine, that is one of the reasons they are great (or a sense of entitlement....). Gretzky also scored more points in his career than Lemieux, what is your point with shorthanded goals exactly? I was saying that I always liked Lemieux more than Gretzky as a player. Lemieux matured into a great team player later on in his career, and I never saw that from Gretzky. One thing that is certain, Gretzky played on much better teams than Lemieux did. Besides the two cups he won while Jagr was in Pittsburgh (92-93), the Pens were not a great team most years.

[Travis]

I never said that Lemieux didn't whine. All great players whine, that is one of the reasons they are great (or a sense of entitlement....). Gretzky also scored more points in his career than Lemieux, what is your point with shorthanded goals exactly? I was saying that I always liked Lemieux more than Gretzky as a player. Lemieux matured into a great team player later on in his career, and I never saw that from Gretzky. One thing that is certain, Gretzky played on much better teams than Lemieux did. Besides the two cups he won while Jagr was in Pittsburgh (92-93), the Pens were not a great team most years.

He was (I'm assuming) referring to your proclamation that Mario was a much better two way player than Gretzky.

As for playing with great teams, that's another that can help/hinder. Playing with one great line meant that Mario was on the ice for a premium amount of time while the Oilers could and did play their second line a lot more than necessary because of the talent (and because of the score in a lot of games). You could definitely argue that had the Oilers had a bit less scoring talent that Gretzky would have seen more time, put up more points, etc, etc.

In the end, all that is conjecture. Gretzky had better longevity, greater individual seasons and was still a fantastic leader for the team and ambassador for the sport. Doesn't mean Lemieux wasn't, but to imply that Gretzky wasn't a team player/leader/etc is a disservice.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I don't believe Lemieux was a better two way player. Lemieux was indeed more talented overall, and the injuries/cancer certainly held him back. That said, he also never had the work ethic or heart that Gretzky had. Perhaps he wouldn't have had the back issues if he had worked out a little more?

Anyways, bottom line is that if I desperately needed a guy to go out for one shift and score a goal, I'd throw Lemieux over the boards, but in almost any other situation I'd choose Gretzky.

I'll give you work ethic, but not heart. I don't remember too many other players playing hours after a chemo treatment.

Hell, he even got a standing ovation from those Neanderthals in Philly for that! :p

[Fidatelo]

He grew a heart later in his career, but this is the same guy that refused to play for Team Canada, avoided games in small towns like Winnipeg (and that is before the cancer/back injuries), and also happened to be cheating on his wife in the same room that a girl was allegedly raped.

The Mario Lemiuex of 2000 was much different than the one in 1986.

[Fidatelo]

Dola...

And I should add that many people credit Gretzky as being the guy to straighten Mario out during the 87 Canada Cup by showing him how a professional should play.

[Dr. Sak]

He grew a heart later in his career, but this is the same guy that refused to play for Team Canada, avoided games in small towns like Winnipeg (and that is before the cancer/back injuries), and also happened to be cheating on his wife in the same room that a girl was allegedly raped.

Actually that happened before Lemieux was married.

[Fidatelo]

Actually that happened before Lemieux was married.

True, although he was dating the girl that he had been dating for years prior and whom he eventually married.

[Dr. Sak]

True, although he was dating the girl that he had been dating for years prior and whom he eventually married.

Right...the only reason I even knew that is i was looking that up today because when I was at the Pens game last night my friend was talking about him getting accused of it.

[Double A]

I kind of like John Ferguson Jr's suggestion after Janssen put Kaberle out for a month on a cheap hit. Don't suspend him for as long as Kaberle is out -- force him to play Kaberle minutes for as long as he's out. - Maple Leafs

We would release Janssen quicker then a Sean Avery dive.

Finally found my ass on line and thought I'd check in to see what the good word is amongst the FOFC hockey boys. Looks like HB, MLeafs, bbor and company are still on this side of the grass. :cool:

Curious what the take up north was on the Stempniak trade??? I've been kind of bitching about it until Steen woke up last night...kid made a move that almost made me drop the budweiser...and cokeacola's been playing pretty damn well amongst our gang of stay at home defensemen. At this point, I am warming up to it. I like Stemper...he's got a quick release and was manning our point on the power play...I'm thinking this might be an even up trade. Time will tell. Giving JD the benefit of the doubt on these moves...dude is getting some love in the Lou despite the poor years in our rebuild.

Overall, we are a cursed franchise (you know this to be fact when your young franchise defensemen has his season end in July while playing golf) and for the 3rd year in a row we aren't making the playoffs, but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the young kids go balls out each night...Berglund...Oshie...Perron...these kids are going to be players. Berglund is reminding me a LOT of a young Mats Sundin...and I don't say that lightly...but his wingspan...puck control...passing...feel for the game....hell, he even looks like him on the ice...kid has major skills. Fantasy players...pick him up now.

I still hate the Hawks. The Hawks still hate us. I still hate the Wings. The Wings don't seem to notice. :) And dude...Hossa and a hottie...you've got to have a cell phone on you for photographic documentation. You can't just wheel that shit in here and not share the scene.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I kind of like John Ferguson Jr's suggestion after Janssen put Kaberle out for a month on a cheap hit. Don't suspend him for as long as Kaberle is out -- force him to play Kaberle minutes for as long as he's out. - Maple Leafs

We would release Janssen quicker then a Sean Avery dive.

Finally found my ass on line and thought I'd check in to see what the good word is amongst the FOFC hockey boys. Looks like HB, MLeafs, bbor and company are still on this side of the grass. :cool:

Curious what the take up north was on the Stempniak trade??? I've been kind of bitching about it until Steen woke up last night...kid made a move that almost made me drop the budweiser...and cokeacola's been playing pretty damn well amongst our gang of stay at home defensemen. At this point, I am warming up to it. I like Stemper...he's got a quick release and was manning our point on the power play...I'm thinking this might be an even up trade. Time will tell. Giving JD the benefit of the doubt on these moves...dude is getting some love in the Lou despite the poor years in our rebuild.

Overall, we are a cursed franchise (you know this to be fact when your young franchise defensemen has his season end in July while playing golf) and for the 3rd year in a row we aren't making the playoffs, but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the young kids go balls out each night...Berglund...Oshie...Perron...these kids are going to be players. Berglund is reminding me a LOT of a young Mats Sundin...and I don't say that lightly...but his wingspan...puck control...passing...feel for the game....hell, he even looks like him on the ice...kid has major skills. Fantasy players...pick him up now.

I still hate the Hawks. The Hawks still hate us. I still hate the Wings. The Wings don't seem to notice. :) And dude...Hossa and a hottie...you've got to have a cell phone on you for photographic documentation. You can't just wheel that shit in here and not share the scene.

Double A!!! Thanks for stopping in. Yeah, things are pretty much same ole, same old around here.

Don't worry, St. Louis will get a NHL team back sometime or another. If it makes you feel any better Chris Osgood seems to have remembered that he's Chris Osgood. He's got a horrible save percentage and is letting in shots from the red line again. Not good.

Don't be such a stranger.

[johnnyshaka]

Yikes...do teams now have to include snowblower clauses into contracts now??

Sorry, DD, this won't help...

hxxp://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=nhl-news-display&nid=A3184451228935197A

[Draft Dodger]

yeah, good times

[Suburban Rhythm]

Is Sakic done for the year now? I thought they originally said 3 months, but the FSN Pittsburgh announcers just said done for the season.

Seriously, the guy has had to have made over $80M in his career. He can't afford someone to clear his driveway?

[Draft Dodger]

I think the official word "at least 3 months". that would put him back in mid-March, but it's still early.

[Maple Leafs]

Via Deadspin...

Last month, the Chiacgo Blackhawks had six straight road games sandwiched around the Thanksgiving holiday. They went from Phoenix to Dallas to Toronto (nice travel agent), then had three days off before heading out for a California swing. That three-day break was their only chance to get home before the holiday, and the team had arranged for a commerical flight to take the players back to Chicago right after their game against the Leafs on Saturday night. General Manager Dale Tallon was staying behind, to attend his father's funeral in rural Ontario. Take it away, crazy anonymous emailer.

This plane departs on schedule, but without a single member of the hockey team. Back in the locker room a vote is taken after the game was complete, and a unanimous decision is made by this young team to skip this flight and stay one more day. They make arrangements to check back in the hotel and on a frozen Sunday morning charter two buses that have no heat and begin a journey two hours straight north into a sparsely inhabited Canada , but where hockey is its passion. They arrive at their destination to the surprise of the teams general manager who is there attending his fathers wake.

After a few emotional hours, this team boards the buses and heads back for a two-hour trip back to Toronto . On the way they ask the drivers to stop in a tiny Canadian town because they are hungry. To the shock of the patrons and workers at this small hockey town McDonald's, a professional team walks out of two rickety buses and into the restaurant, which just happens to have pictures of two members of this team on its wall. The patrons know every single one of these players by sight being Fanatic fans of hockey in these parts. One can only imagine their amazement of the locals seeing and the entire professional hockey team sit down and have a meal in their tiny little town in the middle of a hockey season. After a while they board the buses and catch their same flight 24 hours later, giving one day to their general manager.

Have I made this up, is this an excerpt from some fictional book? No.

This a true story of the Blackhawks last Saturday night and they decided to attend Dale Tallon's fathers funeral. It's amazing that such a good story can be found nowhere on the internet, and not even mentioned in the Chicago papers. Had one of the Blackhawks got into a fight and punched some drunken loser in a Toronto bar it would be plastered all over papers and the television. This being said, its hard to imagine any professional football, basketball or baseball team doing this, but the members of the Blackhawks claim any "hockey" team would have done this. This is one reason I continue to be a big hockey fan, and another reason I am excited about this Chicago team. I thought I would share as this story appears to have gone unnoticed.

Still skeptical, I sent an email to Sarah Spain of Mouthpiece Sports, who has forgotten more about Chicago hockey than I care to remember.

Got a response from one of my contacts in the org. This is a funny addition - it's true that they took a bus up to his dad's funeral — and afterwards they all went to McDonald's where there were [Patrick] Kane and [Jonathan] Toews trading cards in the happy meals. I don't think the unheated part was true, but yeah - these guys are all nice, which makes the job very easy.

Yeah, the unheated bus did seem like a bit much, didn't it? Was that embellishment really necessary? But it is a sweet story nonetheless, and it is shocking that more media outlets haven't picked up on it. Do you know how much fuzzy, heart-tugging mileage SportsCenter could get out of this? Don't even get me started on Costas.

[Dr. Sak]

Is Sakic done for the year now? I thought they originally said 3 months, but the FSN Pittsburgh announcers just said one for the season.


How many times do i tell you to stop listening to Staggy. He can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground.

[sterlingice]

Via Deadspin...

:)

SI

[Draft Dodger]

that stupid Chicago story makes it sound like all other athletes are barbarians

[bbor]

Hey Double A...nice to see you still come here for your hockey fix.

Stempy is doing fin...he is what he is...3rd liner with 15-20 goal potential....quick hard shot.

Steen will be around for awhile...he is a decent defensive guy.Carlo...well...when he ain't broke he's a good 4 or 5 guy.

[Chief Rum]

that stupid Chicago story makes it sound like all other athletes are barbarians

All other athletes ARE barbarians! Sheesh, aren't you a hockey fan? ;)

[Chief Rum]

Oh, yeah, sorry for the rough go of it tonight, Double A. Nothing against the Blues, but I am still a Kariya hater, so I particularly enjoy beating St. Louis while he's there. I suppose it would help if Andy Mac wasn't hurt, always a classy guy, hated hearing about his broken leg, but he's hurt, so it's all about the hate!

[Galaxy]

Sabres won three straight, are back in 8th in the conference.

Vanek added two goals (and they were rather nice-looking ones) to his lead-leading 22 goals. He is starting to become an elite player (he's had 126 goals so far in 3 1/4 seasons). He's just isn't flashy or pretty like Crosby or Oveckin.

[NoSkillz]

Sabres won three straight, are back in 8th in the conference.

Vanek added two goals (and they were rather nice-looking ones) to his lead-leading 22 goals. He is starting to become an elite player (he's had 126 goals so far in 3 1/4 seasons). He's just isn't flashy or pretty like Crosby or Oveckin.

The evolution of Vanek into an elite player has been something to watch.

From a lazy rookie who didn't know the meaning of the word 'backcheck' to the complete player he is becoming today. He broke up a rush the other night that saw him skate the whole length of the ice and dive into a passing lane to break up the play. That brought a tear to my eye it was so beautiful.

And he just keeps scoring big goals, game after game. That backhand goal, top shelf last night from in tight...just gorgeous! I've never seen him score that way before so he's STILL improving and getting better each game.

He seems like a lock for 50 this year and even 60 might not be out of the question. Just incredible. He's worth the price of admission alone on some nights.

[Galaxy]

The evolution of Vanek into an elite player has been something to watch.

From a lazy rookie who didn't know the meaning of the word 'backcheck' to the complete player he is becoming today. He broke up a rush the other night that saw him skate the whole length of the ice and dive into a passing lane to break up the play. That brought a tear to my eye it was so beautiful.

And he just keeps scoring big goals, game after game. That backhand goal, top shelf last night from in tight...just gorgeous! I've never seen him score that way before so he's STILL improving and getting better each game.

He seems like a lock for 50 this year and even 60 might not be out of the question. Just incredible. He's worth the price of admission alone on some nights.

He's becoming an excellent good two-way player (his defensive game has been terrific). He has great hands, a great burst, and just has great instincts. He's only got 22, but he gets at least a few great chances per game to put more goals in. I love how people jump on for an off-year last year while still scoring 36 goals in at only 24 years old. The thing that he doesn't have is a great player like a Malkin, Semin, or the top lines that an Ottawa or Tampa Bay has. Hecht, Roy, Pominville and Stafford are quality players, but they aren't what the top players around the league have to play with.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Through two periods, Pens lead the Isles 8-1...and have hit a couple posts, and had a goal disallowed.

Petr Sykora, prior to this game, led all active players with 43 2-goal games without ever registering a hat trick, appeared to reach that milestone...but the ref blew the whistle, losing sight of the puck (losing sight of it because it was hidden in the net!). No matter, he scored again about 3 minutes later, his first career HT. Then promptly hit a post about 2 mins after that.

Still a period to go...I expect it to get pretty ugly soon, as the Pens did not dress Eric Godard.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Looks like the Flyers have rallied from being down 5-1 to tie the game 5-5 and force OT vs. Carolina. Scottie Hartnell with a HT of his own.

Dr Sak...any truth to the rumors that fans threw their gloves in celebration?

[Dr. Sak]

What a comeback by the Flyers. Like Suburban said....down 5-1 going into the third and they won in a shootout. That should give them some momentum going into Saturday's game against the Pens in Philly, and I will be in attendance!

Haha! Post game comments Hartnell said that with this hat trick he can put the glove incident behind him. I guess right after it happened, the next day in practice Hartnell came down on a breakaway and Lupul hit him in the head with his glove. Hartnell didnt appreciate it too much and the two had words.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pascal Dupuis adds his own 1st career HT, Pens win 9-2.

You realize this means the games Saturday....will be 2-1, in a shootout.

Crowd chanting "We want 10" last 2 mins of the game

[sabotai]

Saturday's game against the Pens in Philly, and I will be in attendance!

Yell something mean at Crosby for me!

[Dr. Sak]

Yell something mean at Crosby for me!

That'll happen before the puck drops.

[Suburban Rhythm]

That'll happen before the puck drops.

You don't mean that...you were cheering for him that game we were at!

[Dr. Sak]

You don't mean that...you were cheering for him that game we were at!

To fail!

[Chief Rum]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AtFFTO.Fh_myKWNxF6Oc6ep7vLYF?slug=ap-capitals-emergencygoalie&prov=ap&type=lgns

Awesome.

[samifan24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AtFFTO.Fh_myKWNxF6Oc6ep7vLYF?slug=ap-capitals-emergencygoalie&prov=ap&type=lgns

Awesome.

I was hoping he would get a chance to play because I thought it would make a really cool story. As it is I'm sure he'll always remember his eight minutes as a backup goalie on an NHL bench.

[Maple Leafs]

So, did I miss it and the NHL passed a special bylaw that every team has to wear their alternate jerseys against the Leafs?

Everyone else is all excited about leaked third jerseys. I have to go online to try to figure out what teams' first jerseys look like.

[Double A]

St. Louis Post discussion on Sakic injury starts out with "Sakic a Blue?"

We're getting thumped on this road trip to the west coast. Last night against LA was horrendous...but third game in four nights with travel isn't a good scenario (yeah...I'm playing that card). Tkachuk has a nice string of games in a row where he has coughed the puck up with no one on him...and see it 9 seconds later in the back of our net. :( Starting to have Garth Butcher playoff flashbacks. I bleed blue...and lately, a lot of it.

And if Coliacovo is really nothing more then a 4 or 5, we're truly fucked because he is head and shoulders better then anyone else on our blueline with the puck on his stick. Steen continues to baffle me...he looks lost more times then not. On Stempniak, I personally think he is better then a third line player...30 goal potential there...wicked snap shot. Of course, I thought Jeff Taiffe was the shit and look what happened. :-\

[samifan24]

And the Bruins smoke Atlanta 7-3. A strange game with a lot of fights...perfect for the first game of a home-and-home.

[Draft Dodger]

So, did I miss it and the NHL passed a special bylaw that every team has to wear their alternate jerseys against the Leafs?

Everyone else is all excited about leaked third jerseys. I have to go online to try to figure out what teams' first jerseys look like.

the Avs have had 4 games where the other team was debuting their 3rd. For kicks, they wore their away jerseys tonight at home so the stupid Blackhawks could wear their 3rds again.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pens look terrible vs. the Cryers, lose 6-3. Philly now moves ahead of Pittsburgh in the standings.

I am looking forward to how Dr Sak spins Richards not dropping the gloves with Matt Cooke into a sign of a true leader. ;)

(and please watch a replay of the hit on Timonen before you claim a hit from behind)

[Dr. Sak]

Pens look terrible vs. the Cryers, lose 6-3. Philly now moves ahead of Pittsburgh in the standings.

I am looking forward to how Dr Sak spins Richards not dropping the gloves with Matt Cooke into a sign of a true leader. ;)

(and please watch a replay of the hit on Timonen before you claim a hit from behind)

Why fight when you are up 6-3? Let the Pens wallow in their suckiness.

I didn't think it was a hit from behind but I did see YOUR captain out on the ice and didn't want anything to do with the scrum until the end where he could just jump on someone's back.

[samifan24]

The Bruins sweep Atlanta in a home and home. David Krejci had three assists and is now 26th in the league in scoring. I know most newspapers typically print the top 25 scorers and I'm guessing Krejci's name will be new to a lot of fans outside of Boston. The kid can really play.

[Dr. Sak]

Yell something mean at Crosby for me!

I started two Crosby Sucks chants at the game yesterday. The first one was in your honor.

[Dr. Sak]

By the way...you make the call...boarding or not?

http://cdn.nhl.com/penguins/images/upload/2008/12/COOKE.jpg

[bbor]

Stars announce Avery will not be back with the team.

[Suburban Rhythm]

By the way...you make the call...boarding or not?

http://cdn.nhl.com/penguins/images/upload/2008/12/COOKE.jpg

We need the full replay, showing Timonen facing center ice, turning and jumping to avoid the hit. Unless he's got eyes in the back of his head, the only explanation for jumping is he saw Cooke coming before turning.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Why fight when you are up 6-3? Let the Pens wallow in their suckiness.

I didn't think it was a hit from behind but I did see YOUR captain out on the ice and didn't want anything to do with the scrum until the end where he could just jump on someone's back.

I 100% agree with the Flyers had no reason to fight.

So it's OK that Richards didn't want to fight (and Cooke really isn't even a fighter, I'd put him and Richards at the low end of the middleweights) because it was 6-3, but not OK that Crosby "didn't want anything to do with it" when it was 6-3?

Two other things I did see (from TV)- After Godard-Hartnell, Hartnell tossed Godard's elbow pads into the crowd. He's taken to throwing other player's equipment now?

And the couple times Richards got chased from faceoffs, each time he had something to say the to refs. Glad MY captain doesn't do that. :p

[Dr. Sak]

I 100% agree with the Flyers had no reason to fight.

So it's OK that Richards didn't want to fight (and Cooke really isn't even a fighter, I'd put him and Richards at the low end of the middleweights) because it was 6-3, but not OK that Crosby "didn't want anything to do with it" when it was 6-3?

Two other things I did see (from TV)- After Godard-Hartnell, Hartnell tossed Godard's elbow pads into the crowd. He's taken to throwing other player's equipment now?

And the couple times Richards got chased from faceoffs, each time he had something to say the to refs. Glad MY captain doesn't do that. :p

Wow I see you are being a whiny bitch like your captain. :)

At least you aren't crying as bad as some Pens fans who had their feelings hurt when the Flyers' organist kept the Crosby Sucks chant going.

I didn't see Hartnell throw Godards stuff, but the Phantoms are having a give away this week called "Scott Hartnell Glove Night". If Godard really needs equipment, I'll get him some gloves.

It's no shame to lose to the Flyers...of the possible 32 points in their last 16 games, the Flyers have gotten 27 of them. They are pretty hot right now and that is even without Briere and some of the middle defensemen.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I didn't see Hartnell throw Godards stuff, but the Phantoms are having a give away this week called "Scott Hartnell Glove Night". If Godard really needs equipment, I'll get him some gloves.

Godard is a sniper now...his stick is more valuable than his elbow pad

It's no shame to lose to the Flyers...of the possible 32 points in their last 16 games, the Flyers have gotten 27 of them. They are pretty hot right now and that is because they are without Briere and some of the middle defensemen.

Fixed

Thankfully, Fleury is back healthy. As well as Dany Sabourin played at the beginning of this 10 game stretch, he was equally awful at the end.

[Dr. Sak]

What I don't understand is why they dressed MAF but didn't play him. He should have been in there if he was well enough to play and if he wasn't healthy enough why was he the back up?

[samifan24]

What's the deal with Hartnell? Did he throw his equipment into the stands or something?

[Suburban Rhythm]

What I don't understand is why they dressed MAF but didn't play him. He should have been in there if he was well enough to play and if he wasn't healthy enough why was he the back up?

Agree. Because I fully expected him to start the 3rd period. And if didn't because he wasn't game ready, then why dress him at all? They don't play until Thursday, so he'd have another 5+ days. They weren't forced to put him back on the active roster, keep John Curry another day, re-assign him after the game (like they did with Taffe and Connor James were) and give him a shorter trip back to Wilkes Barre.

Besides, what if Fleury needed to enter the game due to injury, like if Hartnell would have slide tackled Sabourin, as Flyers have been known to do? ;)

What's the deal with Hartnell? Did he throw his equipment into the stands or something?

I don't know the exact player (was it Ryan Malone), but a game about a week ago, Hartnell threw his glove at a player on a breakaway.

After a fight (can it be a fight if only one guy throws punches?) with Eric Godard, Hartnell grabbed Godard's elbow pads off the ice and tossed them into the crowd.

[samifan24]

I don't know the exact player (was it Ryan Malone), but a game about a week ago, Hartnell threw his glove at a player on a breakaway.

The Pens player was given a penalty shot for that, right?

[Dr. Sak]

Yeah it was Malone for Tampa and he was given a penalty shot.

[Dr. Sak]

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[sterlingice]

I think he said something about a truck when they panned to him after the penalty shot ;)

SI

[bbor]

OMG...what a stupid play..LOL

[Suburban Rhythm]

Almost Avery-like

[Honolulu_Blue]

You know, Detroit plays Colorado tonight and I had no idea who the Wings were playing until I heard it on the radio this morning.

I miss the good old days of that rivalry...

[Dr. Sak]

SPORTSbyBROOKS » Philadelphia Flyers Pop Collars, Crash Frat Party (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/philadelphia-flyers-pop-collars-crash-frat-party-21363)

[Maple Leafs]

I miss the good old days of that rivalry...
This should be the offical slogan of the Bettman era.

[Draft Dodger]

You know, Detroit plays Colorado tonight and I had no idea who the Wings were playing until I heard it on the radio this morning.

I miss the good old days of that rivalry...

I guess the Wings didn't hear about it either.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I guess the Wings didn't hear about it either.

They clearly seemed to forget that the game started at 7 as opposed to 7:30. Damn youse, Versus! Damn youse!

Then again, the Wings' M.O. this year has either been going up early and then blowing the lead or going down early and then playing catch up the rest of the way, usually tying things up in the third.

Other than a few games were they scored an empty net goal, there have been very, very few games that the Wings have won by more than one goal.

[sachmo71]

FINALLY made it to a hockey game last night. Saw the Stars take care of the Coyotes in overtime. I was sad that I didn't recognize a few of the names on the roster, but some of the old standbys were still there. I need to get back into the game.

[Maple Leafs]

Render, Noskillz, etc.... your suspicions confirmed:

Down Goes Brown: Inside the NHL's War Room... wait, what's that? - Toronto Maple Leafs Blog - Humor. Commentary. Despair. (http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/12/inside-nhls-war-room-wait-whats-that.html)

[Galaxy]

Render, Noskillz, etc.... your suspicions confirmed:

Down Goes Brown: Inside the NHL's War Room... wait, what's that? - Toronto Maple Leafs Blog - Humor. Commentary. Despair. (http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/12/inside-nhls-war-room-wait-whats-that.html)

Haha.

In last night's game, one of Devils players tried to leap over (without any help) Miller in the net, while he failed miserably. The Devils scored as he passed the puck behind him as the Devils played leaped over him. I guess that wasn't goaltender infererence.

[NoSkillz]

Render, Noskillz, etc.... your suspicions confirmed:

Down Goes Brown: Inside the NHL's War Room... wait, what's that? - Toronto Maple Leafs Blog - Humor. Commentary. Despair. (http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2008/12/inside-nhls-war-room-wait-whats-that.html)

:D

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sundin saga is over....Vancouver, where he should have just signed 4 months ago.

No idea on terms.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=260123&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

[Honolulu_Blue]

Sundin saga is over....Vancouver, where he should have just signed 4 months ago.

No idea on terms.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=260123&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

Phew.

I'm glad that's finally over. It's been keeping me on edge for months...

I am excited by the prospect of a: Sedin-Sundin-Sedin line. That could be enjoyable.

I hope it's for the full $10 million per year.

[Draft Dodger]

I am excited by the prospect of a: Sedin-Sundin-Sedin line. That could be enjoyable.


and now maybe the 3 of them can package themselves together on the free agent market this summer

[Wolfpack]

Hard to tell if this is a rebound or merely a dead cat bounce, but Carolina has gotten a point in six straight and won back-to-back games for the first time in almost a month with an OT win over Florida. Carolina is now 3-1-3 in the seven games since Maurice returned to the bench. They've definitely been a bit better on defense aside from the utter collapse against Philadelphia last Thursday. Only problem is aside from that collapse game where they scored five goals, Carolina still can't seem to score on offense. Tonight was a good example as Carolina generally outplayed Florida for very long stretches (37-20 on shots), but still needed to go to OT to win. Part of that is that Vokoun was on a roll for much of the game, but there still is the irritating tendency to either make too nifty a pass, too nifty a skating move, or plain just fire it at the goal and hope.

Corvo's had a good couple of games of late, netting game winners in each of the last two games including a very pretty effort tonight with OT winding down that saw him weave through the Florida defense and flick a backhander that beat Vokoun badly for the win.

[DeToxRox]

Wings played their first real complete game in weeks, with a 6-0 thrashing of San Jose.

The Sharks were coming off 3 in 4 days, which was what happened when SJ beat Detroit 4-2 in the Tank, but regardless, Detroit looked awesome in all facets finally.

Hopefully Detroit can string a couple together like this one.

[Chief Rum]

I am excited by the prospect of a: Sedin-Sundin-Sedin line. That could be enjoyable.

This could be the biggest test NHL broadcasters have ever had.

[samifan24]

David Krejci nets his first career hat trick in Boston's wild 8-5 win over the Maple Leafs. Krejci is now 21st in the league in scoring and has something like 23 points in his last 13 games. I really believe he is the best player no one outside of Boston has heard of.

[TurnerONU22]

Exhibit A of why the Toronto War Room is garbage:

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Jackets and Stars tied at 5 into OT. Manny Malhotra goes to the net and the puck bounces in. Good goal on the ice. However, the war room decides to waive it off with a "distinct kicking motion". Apparently you can kick the puck in with only 1 skate on the ice. I didn't realize hockey players were that talented.

Of course, it goes into a shootout and the Stars win.

I'm still baffled by this call. If you watch it in slow motion like 20 times, you can see where it appears that he directs it in. However, his other skate is not on the ice at the time, so I can't see how you can kick the puck in on only 1 skate. Also, he's making the move because he's being pushed from behind and he doesn't want to run Turco over.

Here is Hitch's quote after the game:

We won the hockey game. We won the hockey game. It was a good goal. I don’t care what anybody says, we won the hockey game. We outplayed them and we won the hockey game. They can put up whatever score they want down there, they can put up whatever score they want in the National Hockey League. We won the hockey game. That player did not kick it. All he tried to do was get out of the way of the goaltender.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'm guessing that his foot continued forward and directed the puck into the net was the reasoning. Honestly, had he plowed over Turco and therefore no longer continued skating, it probably would have counted.

The puck was in contact with his skate for too long I guess. Not saying that makes the call right, but probably what they saw.

[TurnerONU22]

Honestly, had he plowed over Turco and therefore no longer continued skating, it probably would have counted.

You're absolutely right here and what makes me furious. That's my argument of why its not a distinct motion, he's avoiding running Turco. Of course, if he runs Turco, he'll get an interference penalty and the goal won't count.

[Draft Dodger]

This could be the biggest test NHL broadcasters have ever had.

after Stastny - Stastny - Stastny, you mean?

[Suburban Rhythm]

You're absolutely right here and what makes me furious. That's my argument of why its not a distinct motion, he's avoiding running Turco. Of course, if he runs Turco, he'll get an interference penalty and the goal won't count.


There was a goal disallowed Pens vs Sens in the first round of the 07 playoffs. Crosby's leg was pinned underneath him, as he fell, driving the net. Trying to straighten his leg back out, the puck, on a rebound, hits Crosby's skate and goes in. No goal, distinct kicking motion. To me, distinct kicking motion you have to be aware the puck is in a playable position.

In that case, and this, I'd argue the player (Crosby before and Malhotra here) even are aware the puck is in their feet.

[Fidatelo]

Personally I think the NHL should just do away with disallowing goals that are kicked in. Unless they are afraid of people kicking with their skates and hurting goalies (which I guess is maybe the case?), I can't see a good reason why it shouldn't be perfectly ok to kick the puck in if you can pull it off.

[Hurst2112]

We won the hockey game. We won the hockey game. It was a good goal. I don’t care what anybody says, we won the hockey game. We outplayed them and we won the hockey game. They can put up whatever score they want down there, they can put up whatever score they want in the National Hockey League. We won the hockey game. That player did not kick it. All he tried to do was get out of the way of the goaltender.

christ hitch, save it for the post season.

[Dr. Sak]

Merry Christmas Sabers Fans
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[TurnerONU22]

christ hitch, save it for the post season.

Post season? The NHL has a playoff?

Sincerely,
Columbus Blue Jackets Fans

[Galaxy]

This could be the biggest test NHL broadcasters have ever had.

Throw in the fact that they are all scoring machines from Sweden.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Penguins wheel and deal...

Max Talbot signs 2 year extension, no word on $

Deal minor league winger Jon Filewich to St. Louis for a conditional 6th round pick

Something big is coming!! ;)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow. I would be awesome at this job and I would love it. I am also totally qualified. I have above average Excel and Powerpoint skills. Unfortunately, I need to get paid and I wouldn't get college credit...

Hockey Operations Intern (Spring 2009) - Tampa Bay Lightning (Tampa, FL)

http://hockeyjobs.nhl.com/teamwork/shared_TWO_resources/teamlogos/NHL/t.b38.gifThe Hockey Operations Intern will work with the Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations, Assistant General Managers and Hockey Operations Coordinator. The internship will provide an in depth look as to what is involved in running a professional hockey team as well a chance to actively contribute and be a part of the organization and its culture.


RESPONSIBILITIES:

Research and design player statistic spreadsheets
Review and update current NHL and AHL depth charts and monitor trade/assignments
Develop new systems for analyzing past player performance and trends
Work with coaching and training staff on an as needed and directed basis
Coordinate with organization’s scouts on communication and reporting systems
Assist with general operations of the team’s AHL affiliate, the Norfolk Admirals. REQUIREMENTS:
Full or part-time (minimum 20 hours per week) will be considered. Ability to work game-nights as requested. Proficiency in Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint required. Must be available to start in early January.


THIS IS AN UNPAID INTERNSHIP POSITION.


YOU MUST BE ABLE TO RECEIVE COLLEGE CREDIT FOR THE INTERNSHIP.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Wow. I would be awesome at this job and I would love it. I am also totally qualified. I have above average Excel and Powerpoint skills. Unfortunately, I need to get paid and I wouldn't get college credit...

Hockey Operations Intern (Spring 2009) - Tampa Bay Lightning (Tampa, FL)

http://hockeyjobs.nhl.com/teamwork/shared_TWO_resources/teamlogos/NHL/t.b38.gifThe Hockey Operations Intern will work with the Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations, Assistant General Managers and Hockey Operations Coordinator. The internship will provide an in depth look as to what is involved in running a professional hockey team as well a chance to actively contribute and be a part of the organization and its culture.


RESPONSIBILITIES:

Research and design player statistic spreadsheets
Review and update current NHL and AHL depth charts and monitor trade/assignments
Develop new systems for analyzing past player performance and trends
Work with coaching and training staff on an as needed and directed basis
Coordinate with organization’s scouts on communication and reporting systems
Assist with general operations of the team’s AHL affiliate, the Norfolk Admirals.REQUIREMENTS:
Full or part-time (minimum 20 hours per week) will be considered. Ability to work game-nights as requested. Proficiency in Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint required. Must be available to start in early January.


THIS IS AN UNPAID INTERNSHIP POSITION.


YOU MUST BE ABLE TO RECEIVE COLLEGE CREDIT FOR THE INTERNSHIP.

You'd be the head coach by August.

[Hurst2112]

You'd be the head coach by August.

hah! good one.

Bases his tactics for each game playing EHM the night before.

[Travis]

hah! good one.

Bases his tactics for each game playing EHM the night before.

I wish that's what MacTavish would do instead of using NHL 09.

[Galaxy]

I love Crosby's "fight" last night (nailing the guy in the nuts from behind).

[Dr. Sak]

I love Crosby's "fight" last night (nailing the guy in the nuts from behind).

I was just about to post that, I didn't see the "highlights" till this morning! What a douchebag.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I was just about to post that, I didn't see the "highlights" till this morning! What a douchebag.

So you are saying you admit he threw more punches than Richards did vs. Cooke?

:p

[Galaxy]

I was just about to post that, I didn't see the "highlights" till this morning! What a douchebag.

Was he a third man in on that fight?

[Galaxy]

Here's a link to the fight:

hxxp://nhl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/19/sidney-crosbys-fighting-style-dirty-as-i-wanna-be/

[Galaxy]

So sucker punching a guy in the face is not a game misconduct?

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp3EucOdg2M

Peters challenged Gauthier after the fight and he wouldn't fight.

Am I wrong to think that the investiagtor penalty allows for cheap shots?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Was he a third man in on that fight?

If he was the 3rd man in, Valabik was the 4th and Letang the 5th. Orpik/Reasoner was the original "fight".

If you want to call Crosby/Valabik engaged, then Letang would be the 3rd guy in there. But then this wouldn't even have made it here. Letang being the 3rd guy in is no fun.

[Galaxy]

If he was the 3rd man in, Valabik was the 4th and Letang the 5th. Orpik/Reasoner was the original "fight".

If you want to call Crosby/Valabik engaged, then Letang would be the 3rd guy in there. But then this wouldn't even have made it here. Letang being the 3rd guy in is no fun.

Thanks. I really didn't see the whole fight outside of Crosby.

[Travis]

Bizarre incident early in the Ducks/Oilers game. Selanne getting taken into the boards by Grebeshkov stays down and at first look it appears he got cut in the face. As he's going off the ice he doesn't put any weight on his left leg and from replays they figure he cut himself with his own skate during the hit. No word on how bad it is yet but quite a bit of blood was left on the ice.

Really hope the cut is relatively superficial and nothing serious.

[Galaxy]

Sabres beat the Kings 5-0. Kaleta may be out due to the cheapshot.

[Suburban Rhythm]

TB waived Jussi Jokinen.

Good thing they got rid of Melrose to right the ship.

[Honolulu_Blue]

TB waived Jussi Jokinen.

Good thing they got rid of Melrose to right the ship.

If they would have hired me as their intern in June none of this would have happened.

[Suburban Rhythm]

maybe if nobody picks him up, they'll bring him back as the intern?
That whole backup goalie/GM thing worked out for Garth Snow.

[Honolulu_Blue]

maybe if nobody picks him up, they'll bring him back as the intern?
That whole backup goalie/GM thing worked out for Garth Snow.

I would question his Excel and PowerPoint proficiency.

[sterlingice]

I am excited by the prospect of a: Sedin-Sundin-Sedin line. That could be enjoyable.

:D

Hard to tell if this is a rebound or merely a dead cat bounce,

Hadn't heard that phrase in a while and it made me chuckle :)

SI

[Chief Rum]

after Stastny - Stastny - Stastny, you mean?

Naw, you just go with "One", "Two" and "Three" there. ;)

[Chief Rum]

Bizarre incident early in the Ducks/Oilers game. Selanne getting taken into the boards by Grebeshkov stays down and at first look it appears he got cut in the face. As he's going off the ice he doesn't put any weight on his left leg and from replays they figure he cut himself with his own skate during the hit. No word on how bad it is yet but quite a bit of blood was left on the ice.

Really hope the cut is relatively superficial and nothing serious.

Yup, still don't know for sure how bad it is. It's definitely a cut on the leg. I mean, don't know when he'll be back or what his status is. The game was showing on a channel locally that doesn't come in very well at my place, so I didn't have the game on and didn't see when this happened. Ugh.

[Travis]

Yup, still don't know for sure how bad it is. It's definitely a cut on the leg. I mean, don't know when he'll be back or what his status is. The game was showing on a channel locally that doesn't come in very well at my place, so I didn't have the game on and didn't see when this happened. Ugh.

They updated later in the broadcast that he had 9 stitches but was heading back to Anaheim for a MRI. No word on how deep the cut was or how long he'd be out for.

[Chief Rum]

They updated later in the broadcast that he had 9 stitches but was heading back to Anaheim for a MRI. No word on how deep the cut was or how long he'd be out for.

Yeah, the second part is what has people concerned, since of course, not only does a cut like that hurt like hell, but you keep the legs so active in hockey that it's not like you can play with a cut like that on your leg, even bandaged up. The risk of ripping the stitches and bleeding again, pain or muscle damage aside, is too much.

And there is no replacing a Selanne in our lineup (even though I like some of our wings at Iowa).

[samifan24]

...And the Bruins keep winning...

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pens tanking for Tavares. Can he play wing?

[Sublime 2]

...And the Bruins keep winning...

...And Kessel keeps tallying...

[Neuqua]

So the Blackhawks aren't doing too badly, I'm trying to get tickets but they are the hottest show in town and its costing a bundle. Never been to a hockey game before.

Winter Classic tickets are running $400/pair.

[molson]

...And the Bruins keep winning...

I'm amazed by their run....

And pissed that I have ZERO access to the NHL on TV out here in Boise until the NBC schedule starts. I might have to take the plunge on whatever NHL.com has to offer in terms of game video/audio.

[Dr. Sak]

Pens tanking for Tavares. Can he play wing?

You gotta think they will trade a defensemen sooner or later for a winger.

[bbor]

Pens tanking for Tavares. Can he play wing?

Leafs winning to lose Tavares.

[Suburban Rhythm]

You gotta think they will trade a defensemen sooner or later for a winger.

Sure they'll move one. But what are they going to get in return.

Whitney played an AHL game last night, and is scheduled to play the 23rd vs Tampa. That leaves them with 8 guys:

Whitney, Letang, Orpik, Scuderi, Eaton, Boucher, Goligoski and Gill

Gill hasn't played in about 2 weeks, but it doesn't seem to be a severe injury.

Orpik is the one guy they won't move, he's the only physical D they have.
Boucher, Scuderi, Eaton or Gill wouldn't net much in return, unless packaged with someone/thing else.

That leaves Whitney, Goligoski and Letang. Of the 3, I say Letang is untouchable. He's not in the league of guys like Phaneuf or Weber, but he's a 21 year old RH D, and has been playing against opponent's top lines the majority of the season. And he's still on his rookie deal. Whatever the Penguins get, probably isn't good enough to give him up.

Whitney would make the most sense, as he's signed long term, and coming off a "bad" year where he still reached 40 pts. For those same reasons, I don't see him going anywhere.

That leaves Goligoski. He's been better than Letang at points offensively, but while he's OK in his own end, he's doing that against teams 3rd lines. At 5'10" about 185 (he's been compared to Rafalski) he will probably never be a top pairing guy, and on a team without Gonchar, Whitney and Letang are.

It's about 2-3 weeks until Tyler Kennedy returns, and he should get a shot on the top 2 lines when he returns. The 3rd line has found some consistency keeping Cookie-Staal- RW of the day, so he doesn't need to be put back in that spot.

The other option that will keep coming up is move Staal for a similar aged winger, but I don't see that happening either. For it to make sense for Pittsburgh, the winger needs to be a top 6 type, signed somewhat long term, and preferably young enough to be in his prime along with Crosby/Malkin. Teams that have that guy don't trade him. Plus, Staal will be an RFA. The team giving up the young winger would want him coming in the a deal already signed.

So Goligoski + a pick + someone like Satan or Fedotenko possibly (to dump salary as well as replace the forward for the trading partner).

Who is that getting me?

[NoSkillz]

Sure they'll move one. But what are they going to get in return.

Whitney played an AHL game last night, and is scheduled to play the 23rd vs Tampa. That leaves them with 8 guys:

Whitney, Letang, Orpik, Scuderi, Eaton, Boucher, Goligoski and Gill

Gill hasn't played in about 2 weeks, but it doesn't seem to be a severe injury.

Orpik is the one guy they won't move, he's the only physical D they have.
Boucher, Scuderi, Eaton or Gill wouldn't net much in return, unless packaged with someone/thing else.

That leaves Whitney, Goligoski and Letang. Of the 3, I say Letang is untouchable. He's not in the league of guys like Phaneuf or Weber, but he's a 21 year old RH D, and has been playing against opponent's top lines the majority of the season. And he's still on his rookie deal. Whatever the Penguins get, probably isn't good enough to give him up.

Whitney would make the most sense, as he's signed long term, and coming off a "bad" year where he still reached 40 pts. For those same reasons, I don't see him going anywhere.

That leaves Goligoski. He's been better than Letang at points offensively, but while he's OK in his own end, he's doing that against teams 3rd lines. At 5'10" about 185 (he's been compared to Rafalski) he will probably never be a top pairing guy, and on a team without Gonchar, Whitney and Letang are.

It's about 2-3 weeks until Tyler Kennedy returns, and he should get a shot on the top 2 lines when he returns. The 3rd line has found some consistency keeping Cookie-Staal- RW of the day, so he doesn't need to be put back in that spot.

The other option that will keep coming up is move Staal for a similar aged winger, but I don't see that happening either. For it to make sense for Pittsburgh, the winger needs to be a top 6 type, signed somewhat long term, and preferably young enough to be in his prime along with Crosby/Malkin. Teams that have that guy don't trade him. Plus, Staal will be an RFA. The team giving up the young winger would want him coming in the a deal already signed.

So Goligoski + a pick + someone like Satan or Fedotenko possibly (to dump salary as well as replace the forward for the trading partner).

Who is that getting me?

Buffalo will give you Afinogenov and you can keep all of those guys.

A bag of pucks will suffice...

[DeToxRox]

Sure they'll move one. But what are they going to get in return.

Whitney played an AHL game last night, and is scheduled to play the 23rd vs Tampa. That leaves them with 8 guys:

Whitney, Letang, Orpik, Scuderi, Eaton, Boucher, Goligoski and Gill

Gill hasn't played in about 2 weeks, but it doesn't seem to be a severe injury.

Orpik is the one guy they won't move, he's the only physical D they have.
Boucher, Scuderi, Eaton or Gill wouldn't net much in return, unless packaged with someone/thing else.

That leaves Whitney, Goligoski and Letang. Of the 3, I say Letang is untouchable. He's not in the league of guys like Phaneuf or Weber, but he's a 21 year old RH D, and has been playing against opponent's top lines the majority of the season. And he's still on his rookie deal. Whatever the Penguins get, probably isn't good enough to give him up.

Whitney would make the most sense, as he's signed long term, and coming off a "bad" year where he still reached 40 pts. For those same reasons, I don't see him going anywhere.

That leaves Goligoski. He's been better than Letang at points offensively, but while he's OK in his own end, he's doing that against teams 3rd lines. At 5'10" about 185 (he's been compared to Rafalski) he will probably never be a top pairing guy, and on a team without Gonchar, Whitney and Letang are.

It's about 2-3 weeks until Tyler Kennedy returns, and he should get a shot on the top 2 lines when he returns. The 3rd line has found some consistency keeping Cookie-Staal- RW of the day, so he doesn't need to be put back in that spot.

The other option that will keep coming up is move Staal for a similar aged winger, but I don't see that happening either. For it to make sense for Pittsburgh, the winger needs to be a top 6 type, signed somewhat long term, and preferably young enough to be in his prime along with Crosby/Malkin. Teams that have that guy don't trade him. Plus, Staal will be an RFA. The team giving up the young winger would want him coming in the a deal already signed.

So Goligoski + a pick + someone like Satan or Fedotenko possibly (to dump salary as well as replace the forward for the trading partner).

Who is that getting me?

Honestly, there are two ways Pitt goes:

Damaged goods for damaged goods, or a pending UFA who costs more then he's worth.

Pittsburgh is like Detroit; any deal they make is probably going to be a one year move unless they plan on replenishing guys that must be moved with farm hands.

I am not sure that Pittsburgh has enough guys who could step in to make a nessecary move to get a top 6 winger considering the cost of one of those already.

If you deal Staal, you're not going to get a more accomplished scorer, so obviously as you said you have to package him, and now who do you get back?

Chances are it's a guy who either just got paid or will get paid unless he is a prospect, which obviously the Pens don't need right now.

I think Pit has to stay the course and see what shakes out closer to the deadline, and determine then the best plan for them, and then maybe make a run at Gabs, as risky as it is, but after what happened with Hossa, I don't see it really being a fit.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Buffalo will give you Afinogenov and you can keep all of those guys.

A bag of pucks will suffice...

Great, another floating winger to pair with Satan.

Honestly, there are two ways Pitt goes:

Damaged goods for damaged goods, or a pending UFA who costs more then he's worth.

Pittsburgh is like Detroit; any deal they make is probably going to be a one year move unless they plan on replenishing guys that must be moved with farm hands.

I am not sure that Pittsburgh has enough guys who could step in to make a nessecary move to get a top 6 winger considering the cost of one of those already.

If you deal Staal, you're not going to get a more accomplished scorer, so obviously as you said you have to package him, and now who do you get back?

Chances are it's a guy who either just got paid or will get paid unless he is a prospect, which obviously the Pens don't need right now.

I think Pit has to stay the course and see what shakes out closer to the deadline, and determine then the best plan for them, and then maybe make a run at Gabs, as risky as it is, but after what happened with Hossa, I don't see it really being a fit.

Yeah, they really can't afford to give up what they gave up for Hossa for another similar player (Gaborik). They need to hold onto their 1st rounders and get a winger who they can pay cheap for a handful of years.

Like Dr Sak said, they'll have D to deal. Once Gonchar returns, they'll be at 9. And have a handful of young guys who could compete for spots in 2 years.

Nathan Horton is a name I am hearing alot, because he's struggling in Florida. He's at $4M a year. I would do Goligoski+ for him, but paying him, along with Crosby and Malkin, plus retaining Staal is probably close to impossible. Staal is going to be near $4M himself = $25M for 4 forwards.

At the deadline, a guy like Tkachuk makes tons of sense, and being a UFA on the downside of his career, he won't command what Hossa did.

I think they'd go after Havlat (assuming Chicago is out of it) before Gaborik.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Pretty ridiculous goal by Blake Wheeler, SH through about 4 guys.

YouTube - Blake Wheeler scores an amazing shorthanded goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCGvxQns6M)

[samifan24]

Dola

Pretty ridiculous goal by Blake Wheeler, SH through about 4 guys.

YouTube - Blake Wheeler scores an amazing shorthanded goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCGvxQns6M)

He said he wanted to pass to Krejci but Krejci went off for a line change so he did the next best thing and stickhandled through the entire Blues powerplay. The Bruins just won't quit.

[Chief Rum]

Teemu's out for 4-6 weeks. No muscle/tendon damage in the cut, at least.

Bobby Ryan will assume much of Teemu's responsibilities on the top power play unit, which is a huge responsibility (Teemu leads the league in PPG). He probably also moves back up to the second line (he was moved to the 4th line a few games ago to help generate a quality energy line, and it was working, alas no more of that).

[bhlloy]

Hey, if there is one good thing to come out of this it's more ice time for Ryan. Now is the time to see if he is really ready to contribute this year and into the playoffs. The downside is the 4th line was really looking good, but I'm sure we'll survive.

[Chief Rum]

Hey, if there is one good thing to come out of this it's more ice time for Ryan. Now is the time to see if he is really ready to contribute this year and into the playoffs. The downside is the 4th line was really looking good, but I'm sure we'll survive.

Ebbett has been good in Iowa and was great last year at Portland. I am hopeful he can also take this opportunity and run with it, as I have to think he will be the one replacing Ryan on the 4th line.

[SirFozzie]

ESPN - Bruins vs. Blues - Recap - December 21, 2008 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=281221019)

watch the video clip (the 2nd goal on the clip). The entire city of St Louis has a chance to stop a solo rush, and doesn't. Well, that's just a slight exaggeration, but by the end of that clip, the entire on-ice Blues team seems to be around him.

[Chief Rum]

ESPN - Bruins vs. Blues - Recap - December 21, 2008 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=281221019)

watch the video clip (the 2nd goal on the clip). The entire city of St Louis has a chance to stop a solo rush, and doesn't. Well, that's just a slight exaggeration, but by the end of that clip, the entire on-ice Blues team seems to be around him.

Heh...

Dola

Pretty ridiculous goal by Blake Wheeler, SH through about 4 guys.

YouTube - Blake Wheeler scores an amazing shorthanded goal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCGvxQns6M)

[Suburban Rhythm]

Teemu's out for 4-6 weeks. No muscle/tendon damage in the cut, at least.



Couple other injuries-

Patrice Bergeron with another concussion. I've read minimum of one week, but that can't be good for a guy who missed all of last season with a concussion.

And Derick Brassard done for the year in Columbus, dislocated shoulder. He was playing really well, finally a #1 C in Columbus.

[sterlingice]

So the Blackhawks aren't doing too badly, I'm trying to get tickets but they are the hottest show in town and its costing a bundle. Never been to a hockey game before.

Winter Classic tickets are running $400/pair.

Ouch.

I was going to make mention of the Hawks after seeing them get their 6th and 7th wins in a row on back to back nights at Calgary and at Vancouver.

SI

[Dr. Sak]

With Crosby disregard, NHL obviously endorses genital walloping - Puck Dadd... - NHL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/With-Crosby-disregard-NHL-obviously-endorses-ge;_ylt=AqqCqov8TvYMLtYQ2Xxzr3s5nYcB?urn=nhl,130785)

[Logan]

Great headline.

[Suburban Rhythm]

And now they award him a goal that was obviously put in with a high stick.

Conspiracy.

[Dr. Sak]

It was close...honestly there was no angle that gave a good view of it. So the call on the ice had to stand.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Thing is, I don't think the ref ever signaled goal on the ice. The play only stopped because the puck was in the net.

Agree, none of the angles were conclusive. And thank God Bettman made a quick call to Toronto.

[Galaxy]

Thing is, I don't think the ref ever signaled goal on the ice. The play only stopped because the puck was in the net.

Agree, none of the angles were conclusive. And thank God Bettman made a quick call to Toronto.

This is what I got lost. Did the refs rule it a goal, or did the light guy?

[Suburban Rhythm]

This is what I got lost. Did the refs rule it a goal, or did the light guy?

The light guy means nothing, as you'll often see the light turned on/off quickly when they assume it's a goal.

I am honestly not sure what the call at ice level was.

This is a couple frames before he actually touches the puck, so even this isn't conclusive:

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/0ce73bd4-2da0-49e6-9995-61ba8e4f3fe2.jpg

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Shitty picture quality. This confirms that...it's still fucking inconclusive. I'd argue it appears below the crossbar, but taking into account the angle of the camera, that means nothing.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2qicoeq.jpg

[Suburban Rhythm]

One more, looks like the ref is pointing "good goal"


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/funkydoodle/untitled.jpg

[Galaxy]

Dola

Shitty picture quality. This confirms that...it's still fucking inconclusive. I'd argue it appears below the crossbar, but taking into account the angle of the camera, that means nothing.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2qicoeq.jpg

Just to post the rule:

"(vi) When the puck has been directed into the net by a stick of an attacking player that is above the height of the crossbar."

Does that mean any part of the stick above the crossbar, or the point where puck hit the stick? Either way, it's a tough call. It just seemed like one ref called it a goal and the other one went right over the booth. At least we got a point (I guess). I just wish our defensemen would learn to clean/tie up guys in the front of the net so the wouldn't be in position to make those plays. Of course, billionaire Tommy G is having too much fun hob-nobbing with the state politicans and important figures, unwilling to spend that extra few million bucks left under the left (the Sabres have a self-imposed cap) NHL cap, to give really care. With Larry Quinn in charge, it only handcuffs what the team can do

This team just seems to get ahead and make stupid turnovers late in the game, giving other teams the team. I'm starting to wonder if it's time to let Lindy go and bring in someone new.

I gotta say, Malkin is becoming a guy I hate playing against more than Crosby. He just seems to be an incredible playmaker.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Going 1 for 6 on the PP didn't help ;)

I am really starting to think that something is nagging Crosby. Similar to Malkin in the SCF last year, where he was battling the flu and coming off the huge hit by Richards in the ECF, and was invisible most of the SCF.

Crosby just seems to be losing alot of one-on-one battles he typicall wins.

Or maybe it's just all the stupid fucking drop passes he's making.

[NoSkillz]

Of course, billionaire Tommy G is having too much fun hob-nobbing with the state politicans and important figures, unwilling to spend that extra few million bucks left under the left (the Sabres have a self-imposed cap) NHL cap, to give really care. With Larry Quinn in charge, it only handcuffs what the team can do

This team just seems to get ahead and make stupid turnovers late in the game, giving other teams the team. I'm starting to wonder if it's time to let Lindy go and bring in someone new.

Hehe...you don't happen to frequent the HF Boards do you?

If not, I apologize but those statements above just seem to echo the sentiment over there.

Plain and simple: if Paille doesn't take a ridiculously stupid, selfish penalty late in the 3rd, the Pens don't go on the powerplay and likely lose the game.

The players just aren't performing - I think this is more of an indictment on Darcy Regier (who I do like) as opposed to Lindy. Regier has to recognize that guys like Teppo, Peters, Paetsch, etc just aren't good enough to play anymore and utilize the kids on the farm more. Heck, Chris Butler has been fantastic in his three games...keep the kid up and scratch Numminen when Rivet gets healthy.

But it won't happen and the Sabres will continue to plod along in ninth place and continue to give us fans false hope that they can make the playoffs.

[Maple Leafs]

Does that mean any part of the stick above the crossbar, or the point where puck hit the stick?
Obviously it's the point where the puck hits the stick... otherwise half the deflected goals would be illegal.

From that screen grab, it looks like a good goal.

One point, though. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't believe the "call on the ice" really matters. People assume the NHL is like the NFL, where an inconclusive replay reverts back to the original call, but I don't think that's actually the case.

[bbor]

Actually i think that the call on the ice does matter.I think they do need conclusive evidence on the replay to change the call on the ice.

I'm sure you'll look it up ML...you're good at those things....or maybe you could just give Fraser a call?:D

[Draft Dodger]

One point, though. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't believe the "call on the ice" really matters. People assume the NHL is like the NFL, where an inconclusive replay reverts back to the original call, but I don't think that's actually the case.

I'm of this opinion as well

[Galaxy]

Hehe...you don't happen to frequent the HF Boards do you?

If not, I apologize but those statements above just seem to echo the sentiment over there.

Plain and simple: if Paille doesn't take a ridiculously stupid, selfish penalty late in the 3rd, the Pens don't go on the powerplay and likely lose the game.

The players just aren't performing - I think this is more of an indictment on Darcy Regier (who I do like) as opposed to Lindy. Regier has to recognize that guys like Teppo, Peters, Paetsch, etc just aren't good enough to play anymore and utilize the kids on the farm more. Heck, Chris Butler has been fantastic in his three games...keep the kid up and scratch Numminen when Rivet gets healthy.

But it won't happen and the Sabres will continue to plod along in ninth place and continue to give us fans false hope that they can make the playoffs.

Not really.

I do agree with you. I just think having a more involved, hockey-passionate owner makes a big difference.

I'm really liking Butler. He looks like he could be a great player for us for a long, long time.

The late penalties are killing us and a lack of power play production. I just wonder if the players aren't responding to Ruff anymore.

[Maple Leafs]

Actually i think that the call on the ice does matter.I think they do need conclusive evidence on the replay to change the call on the ice.


If so, it must be an updated rule. I've definitely seen times when the replay was obviously inconclusive but the original call was changed.

[Maple Leafs]

So I just looked it up, and as I suspected there is nothing in the NHL rulebook about reverting to the call on the ice if a replay is inconclusive. In fact, there's nothing there about inconclusive replays at all.

My interpretation is that there's no way off the hook for a video goal judge. He has to make a call based on what he can see. He doesn't get to hand the decision back to the on-ice officials.

[samifan24]

Sidney Crosby punches Boris Valabik down low. How was Crosby not suspended for this? I don't care that he's a star player, this is disgusting.

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[samifan24]

I love Crosby's "fight" last night (nailing the guy in the nuts from behind).

I really thought we needed to see the video as evidence of Crosby's true stripes.

[Suburban Rhythm]

As a Pens fan, there is no way I can say Crosby was right in what he did.

Maybe this is my black & gold glasses, but I have to think something happened in the original scrum, where Valabik jumps Crosby from behind, for him to snap. In 3+ years in the league, he's never gone after someone like that.

But it is funny that people were all over Crosby for him jumping into a scrum from behind vs. Philly last week, but the same thing happens, probably every game, as Valabik proves, and those are accepted. Anything Crosby does is magnified X 100

[Dr. Sak]

It's because Pittsburghers always have an excuse for Crosby. There is always a reason why he does stuff and none of it is his fault. If he wants to fight someone drop the gloves, you've seen enough old Pens games to know that Lemuiex did it when he had enough.

Honestly I was just busting your balls about jumping in from behind in the game in Philly. I've watched enough hockey to know it happens every game. It's fun to talk shit about Crosby to any Pens fans because it is almost like you are disrespecting their mother. :)

If most of the league does that, they are suspended, but since it is Crosby, it is overlooked. It isn't like it was a stray punch...he wound up twice and hit him in the balls.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I agree it was wrong. But that is any other player in the league (outside of Avery), that isn't even a story.

I don't know the particulars, but didn't Steve Downie punch Jason Blake who was being held by a referee? I think everyone would agree that is wrong. But I bet me, you (as a Flyers fan) and maybe one other person here remembers that. Why? Cause it was meaningless. But if it was Crosby, it would be blown up a thousand times.

[DeToxRox]

Off topic ..

But remember the WJC years ago when Jack Johnson blatantly killed Steve Downie?

Good times.

[DeToxRox]

Dola .. The video

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf5SanphHBo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf5SanphHBo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I really hate Downie so this made me happy even though it was malacious as hell, it was a taste of his own medicine.

[Suburban Rhythm]

After Detox's video, video #1 of the extra's available, Steve Downie punches Jason Blake, whose arms are being held by the ref, in the face.

I'm going to guess this didn't make it into the 07-08 NHL thread.

[Dr. Sak]

After Detox's video, video #1 of the extra's available, Steve Downie punches Jason Blake, whose arms are being held by the ref, in the face.

I'm going to guess this didn't make it into the 07-08 NHL thread.

It did. I remember discussing it last year. Again...deflect the blame from Crosby.

You can't tell me if a Flyers player did what Crosby did, he wouldn't be suspended. Crosby wasn't suspended because who he is. Why can't you and the rest of Pittsburgh admit that?

[Suburban Rhythm]

It did. I remember discussing it last year. Again...deflect the blame from Crosby.

You can't tell me if a Flyers player did what Crosby did, he wouldn't be suspended. Crosby wasn't suspended because who he is. Why can't you and the rest of Pittsburgh admit that?

I said above, or prior page, he was wrong.

Was Downie suspended for punching Blake?

And a quick search didn't turn up anything about Downie punching Blake. The only Downie discussion from last season was him skating away from Ruutu mid-fight, and Laraque putting him into the boards head first. Not that I am testing you :p

You think if that was Gagne, he'd be suspended?

[Dr. Sak]

I said above, or prior page, he was wrong.

Was Downie suspended for punching Blake?

And a quick search didn't turn up anything about Downie punching Blake. The only Downie discussion from last season was him skating away from Ruutu mid-fight, and Laraque putting him into the boards head first. Not that I am testing you :p

You think if that was Gagne, he'd be suspended?

Dowine was suspended so many times that I forget. He deserved it all. And Crosby deserves to be suspended for what he did, no matter what you say. He punch a guy that was being held by his own player...not once but twice. It's just a double standard. But you also defended George Laraque for slide tacking someone so I should know better.

The only way Gagne would hit someone is if he hit him with his purse.

Another day another pens loss...yawn. Sinking faster than the Titanic...luckily you had the War Room on your side last night or you'd have another loss. ;)

[DeToxRox]

C'mon, can we keep the AHL teams out of this NHL thread? ;)

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sak, did you see the 3rd period?

I am trying to find video of one sequence. TB on a 4min PP. Malkin on the PK dumped the puck, skated in after it. TB moves it up ice, Mike Smith for no reason, throws out his stick and hooks Malkin. The ref is literally about 6 feet away, looks at them, and skates up ice. HIL-FUCKING-ARIOUS!

I've seen in the NFL where the director of officiating will come out afterwards and give his interpretation of a call. Just once I'd love Steve Walkom to come out and be questioned on some of these plays.

The only way Gagne would hit someone is if he hit him with his purse.


Isn't that grounds for getting stripped of the orange and black? I thought you had to beat up old man Clarke just to get signed.

[Dr. Sak]

I didnt see the 3rd period, I was leaving Piper's Pub in the South Side at the time.

Was it just me or was Malone and Malkin getting a bit chippy with each other?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I liked this little column (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/With-Crosby-disregard-NHL-obviously-endorses-ge?urn=nhl,130785) about the Crosby low blows.

Again, just to reset the scene: The biggest star in the National Hockey League was caught on video going Jack Dempsey on another player's groin ... from behind. I know it's not a fashion magazine intern making a sex joke in the locker room, but doesn't Crosby's behavior affect the image of the game (and that of its poster boy) in some negative way? Even a little bit?

Please don't read this as anti-Crosby. I think this incident is actually the kind of thing that the NHL needs from the kid, who works better as a heel than he does as a hero. (I've made the comparison before, and once more with feeling: Crosby as a fan-favorite is like The Rock when he was Rocky Maivia; Crosby as the whiney, quasi-cheater is like The Rock as The Rock -- immensely more compelling and charismatic. Avery's rant about needing villains? No one works better than Crosby.)

[Suburban Rhythm]

I didnt see the 3rd period, I was leaving Piper's Pub in the South Side at the time.

Was it just me or was Malone and Malkin getting a bit chippy with each other?

They were, to the point the yinzers came out, and Malone got some booing.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I liked this little column (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/With-Crosby-disregard-NHL-obviously-endorses-ge?urn=nhl,130785) about the Crosby low blows.

Again, just to reset the scene: The biggest star in the National Hockey League was caught on video going Jack Dempsey on another player's groin ... from behind. I know it's not a fashion magazine intern making a sex joke in the locker room, but doesn't Crosby's behavior affect the image of the game (and that of its poster boy) in some negative way? Even a little bit?

Please don't read this as anti-Crosby. I think this incident is actually the kind of thing that the NHL needs from the kid, who works better as a heel than he does as a hero. (I've made the comparison before, and once more with feeling: Crosby as a fan-favorite is like The Rock when he was Rocky Maivia; Crosby as the whiney, quasi-cheater is like The Rock as The Rock -- immensely more compelling and charismatic. Avery's rant about needing villains? No one works better than Crosby.)

Maybe this guy is on to something. Crosby only has 4 years remaining on the deal after this season. Never too early to start laying the groundwork to go to Philly.

[DeToxRox]

Pavel Datsyuk had his 18th 2 goal game in a row without a hat trick tonight vs the Blues.

He needs 20 more to pass Sykoras 38 games that he broke earlier this month.

[Dr. Sak]

Maybe this guy is on to something. Crosby only has 4 years remaining on the deal after this season. Never too early to start laying the groundwork to go to Philly.

Nah he'll just follow his buddy Hossa to Detroit.

[Draft Dodger]

Avs win last night in OT, but suffer another big injury - Paul Stastny had his arm broken by a shot and will be out indefinitely.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Avs win last night in OT, but suffer another big injury - Paul Stastny had his arm broken by a shot and will be out indefinitely.

Have the Avs been at all healthy over the last 2-3 years? It's unbelievable the number of injuries they have suffered. Granted, Sakic is old and Forsberg's natural state is being injured, but it runs much deeper than that. It's too bad.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Pavel Datsyuk had his 18th 2 goal game in a row without a hat trick tonight vs the Blues.

He needs 20 more to pass Sykoras 38 games that he broke earlier this month.

You know, based on this season, I have started to come around to the belief that Datsyuk could, in fact, be a better all around player than Zetterberg. It's like choosing between 1 and 1.000001, but Datsyuk does more defensively and generates a lot more offense. Granted, Datsyuk has been playing with better wingers (Hossa and Homer) than Hank (Franzen and Samuelsson), but still, it's really Datsyuk, more often than not, who is the catalyst for the offense.

A great play by Hossa last night on Datsyuk's shorthanded goal. He flies into the zone, crushes Woywitka, sending him flying, he races over to the far boards, fights off two Blues to get the puck back, centers it to Datsyuk who is right in front of the net. Datsyuk dekes the hell out of poor Woywitka and then beats Legace cleanly. Hossa has provided me a number of shout out loud with amazement moments this year. It's pretty rare to have those during the regular season, but the man delivers.

While I typically catch most, if not all, of every game, I really have made an effort to do so this year. The Wings are not going to be quite this talented again for a while and I really want to enjoy it. While there are simply no guarantees about what will happen in the playoffs, especially with San Jose and Boston playing as well as they are, it's still a treat.

It's just too bad that the rest of "Hockeytown" isn't aware of this team. The Wings are very, very rarely discussed on sports talk radio. The vast majority of the time is spent on the poopy Lions and the rest is basically split among the Pistons/Tigers/UofM/MSU.

[Maple Leafs]

Am I the only one who thinks the Crosby thing was just an accident and not a big deal?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Sak, did you see the 3rd period?

I am trying to find video of one sequence. TB on a 4min PP. Malkin on the PK dumped the puck, skated in after it. TB moves it up ice, Mike Smith for no reason, throws out his stick and hooks Malkin. The ref is literally about 6 feet away, looks at them, and skates up ice. HIL-FUCKING-ARIOUS!
I wouldn't say that Smith did it "for no reason." Smith was waiting in the trapezoid for the puck to roll to him, and Malkin's stick got caught between Smith's pads or something. Smith ended up falling flat on his face. Now, I'm not saying that Malkin did anything wrong - he may have just been going for the puck before Smith could touch it - but Smith would've had a case if he was saying that Malkin tripped him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Am I the only one who thinks the Crosby thing was just an accident and not a big deal?

No. I agree. I really don't think he was really trying to nut punch the guy. He was just sort of ineffectually swinging away.

[DeToxRox]

You know, based on this season, I have started to come around to the belief that Datsyuk could, in fact, be a better all around player than Zetterberg. It's like choosing between 1 and 1.000001, but Datsyuk does more defensively and generates a lot more offense. Granted, Datsyuk has been playing with better wingers (Hossa and Homer) than Hank (Franzen and Samuelsson), but still, it's really Datsyuk, more often than not, who is the catalyst for the offense.

A great play by Hossa last night on Datsyuk's shorthanded goal. He flies into the zone, crushes Woywitka, sending him flying, he races over to the far boards, fights off two Blues to get the puck back, centers it to Datsyuk who is right in front of the net. Datsyuk dekes the hell out of poor Woywitka and then beats Legace cleanly. Hossa has provided me a number of shout out loud with amazement moments this year. It's pretty rare to have those during the regular season, but the man delivers.

While I typically catch most, if not all, of every game, I really have made an effort to do so this year. The Wings are not going to be quite this talented again for a while and I really want to enjoy it. While there are simply no guarantees about what will happen in the playoffs, especially with San Jose and Boston playing as well as they are, it's still a treat.

It's just too bad that the rest of "Hockeytown" isn't aware of this team. The Wings are very, very rarely discussed on sports talk radio. The vast majority of the time is spent on the poopy Lions and the rest is basically split among the Pistons/Tigers/UofM/MSU.

Agreed, HB.

Dats, imo, changes games more then Z. Z is amazing, but Dats is probably the best two way player in the NHL. His defense is on another level. It's like he every shift he is good for a take away, and once he has the puck on his stuck, he can take it coast to coast at any time if he really wanted.

It's very, very close, but I give the edge to Dats.

Plus, he isn't as injury prone as Z, which still scares me with how his back can get.

[Dr. Sak]

Am I the only one who thinks the Crosby thing was just an accident and not a big deal?

Go back to masterbating to Wyndelle Clarke.

[Logan]

No. I agree. I really don't think he was really trying to nut punch the guy. He was just sort of ineffectually swinging away.

I don't know man, he was really dropping his hand low and digging.

[Fidatelo]

Am I the only one who thinks the Crosby thing was just an accident and not a big deal?

No you're not, I totally agree.

[MizzouRah]

Pavel Datsyuk had his 18th 2 goal game in a row without a hat trick tonight vs the Blues.

He needs 20 more to pass Sykoras 38 games that he broke earlier this month.

That second goal he had was sweet!

I can't stand the Redwings, but I do like to watch them play.

Blues are just too battered and injured to do much this season...

[Suburban Rhythm]

I wouldn't say that Smith did it "for no reason." Smith was waiting in the trapezoid for the puck to roll to him, and Malkin's stick got caught between Smith's pads or something. Smith ended up falling flat on his face. Now, I'm not saying that Malkin did anything wrong - he may have just been going for the puck before Smith could touch it - but Smith would've had a case if he was saying that Malkin tripped him.

Do you agree though it was absolutely absurd there was no call against Smith? I don't care that it was 40 feet from the puck, there is no reason that shouldn't have been called. If that is not a hook, then the call should just be tossed from the rulebook. I felt like it was 1998 all over again.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Am I the only one who thinks the Crosby thing was just an accident and not a big deal?

No. I agree. I really don't think he was really trying to nut punch the guy. He was just sort of ineffectually swinging away.

I don't know man, he was really dropping his hand low and digging.

No you're not, I totally agree.

Does everyone agree that is anyone else from Pittsburgh, it's not even a story? Everyone but Dr Sak that is.

[Dr. Sak]

Does everyone agree that is anyone else from Pittsburgh, it's not even a story? Everyone but Dr Sak that is.

Nah...if Malkin did it too. That's what you get for having the "savior" of hockey on your team.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Nah...if Malkin did it too. That's what you get for having the "savior" of hockey on your team.

No way, Malkin would be praised for "playing with passion". At least that's how it would work for Ovechkin, so I figure it's the same for all Russians.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Avs win last night in OT, but suffer another big injury - Paul Stastny had his arm broken by a shot and will be out indefinitely.

No Sakic, no Stastny....so, uh, how much from Pittsburgh for Hejduk?

[Neuqua]

Heart-wrenching post on Down Goes Brown today.

:)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Do you agree though it was absolutely absurd there was no call against Smith? I don't care that it was 40 feet from the puck, there is no reason that shouldn't have been called. If that is not a hook, then the call should just be tossed from the rulebook. I felt like it was 1998 all over again.
If you call a hook on Smith there, you have to call a trip on Malkin beforehand.

[Maple Leafs]

Go back to masterbating to Wyndelle Clarke.
Would you please learn to spell the greatest thing in the history of the universe, and also "Wendel Clark"?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pens eek one out, 1-0 vs the Devils.

Fleury with a few quality saves, including the one in the link below, about 2:30 in. And Mark Eaton's kick save at the goalline, about 3:00 in.

Jamie Langenbrunner had probably 4-5 great chances, but was snake bitten all night.

NHL Network Online (http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,507)

[Maple Leafs]

Heart-wrenching post on Down Goes Brown today.
The way this season is going, puppy-immolation will be considered "feel good" writing pretty soon.

[NoSkillz]

Another exciting call-up for Sabres fans as fomer Michigan State standout Tim Kennedy will be making his NHL debut tonight in his hometown of Buffalo against the Isles.

Kennedy is leading AHL rookies in assists and will hopefully be put on a scoring line right away. I'm excited to see him play.

[Draft Dodger]

No Sakic, no Stastny....so, uh, how much from Pittsburgh for Hejduk?

won't happen. NTC AND his cap figure is quite favorable.

[MizzouRah]

WOO HOO!!!

Beat the best team in the league.. well, shootout and all!!!

[Draft Dodger]

and the Avs beat the Wings again in a really exciting game (and one Detroit really should have won).

I had to endure the homer act of Ken Daniels and Larry Murphy all night. Once the game went to OT, both guys started going on and on about how the Avs needed to press in OT to avoid going to a shootout. Nice research, guys: the Avs are now 7-1 in shootouts on the year and have won something like 11 of their last 12.

[samifan24]

This just in: the Bruins are good. Seven in a row! Blake Wheeler for the Calder!

[MizzouRah]

Yes.. the Bruins are good...

[Neuqua]

Thought this was a nice little article on ESPN today..

ESPN - Gene Wojciechowski: Blackhawks offer hope (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3798186&sportCat=nhl)

Very excited for Thursday's game. Can't say I have ever said that before about hockey.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Thought this was a nice little article on ESPN today..

ESPN - Gene Wojciechowski: Blackhawks offer hope (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3798186&sportCat=nhl)

Very excited for Thursday's game. Can't say I have ever said that before about hockey.

Well, if tonight's game is any indication of what we'll see Thursday, the Winter Classic should deliver the goods. The Wings won, 4-0, but the game was much closer, with the Blackhawks dominating at certain points of the game. The game was pretty chippy and both teams were really playing well.

Should be a good one.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Just curious if anyone else would like to see this.

In the NFL, you often see the director of officiating coming out Monday or Tuesday after games ruling on a call.

Why don't we see this more often in the NHL? I guess the volume of games/calls would be higher, but you rarely see or hear of any disciplinary action in the NHL (vs, for example, this year, Ed Hochuli in SD vs DEN).

Pens-Bruins tonight, Boston 8 PP, Pittsburgh 3. Maybe that is sour grapes, but some absolutely insane calls.

In the 1st pd, Malkin trips behind the play and is called for hooking. Replays show his stick never leaves the ice! Then in the 2nd, Malkin drops a pass back to the blueline, Boston player finishes his check on Malkin while skating towards the blueline-- interference Malkin.

Bruins had their sticks in the Pens hands all night. And it went both ways. Phil Kessel with a breakaway in the 3rd, Alex Goligoski hooks him from the blueline in...ref watching the whole thing. Kessel gets a shot off, Fleury makes the save...then the refs hand goes up.

I know the league likes to protect the officials from criticism, but at what point should they have to answer for blatantly missed calls?

By the way, those calls didn't lose the game for the Pens, the Pens lost the game for the Pens.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

PING Dr Sak

Gagne hurt first shift of the game in Vancouver? How bad?

[samifan24]

Pens-Bruins tonight, Boston 8 PP, Pittsburgh 3. Maybe that is sour grapes, but some absolutely insane calls.

By the way, those calls didn't lose the game for the Pens, the Pens lost the game for the Pens.

It was a good game for the first two periods. The Bruins had a lot of power plays but the only call I didn't understand was the Malkin interference penalty (which was not shown on replay on NESN) because it seemed like incidental contact. I thought the hook on Kessel might be a penalty shot but then thought they weren't calling anything so that was confusing. I didn't really notice the refs against Pittsburgh all night but I'm a Bruins fan. But you're right that the Pens played poorly and Boston made the most of its chances.

[NoSkillz]

I have season's tickets for the Sabres but due to a newborn baby, tonight was only the third game I've been able to get to this year.

I should have stayed home. What a disgraceful performance by Buffalo. They should be ashamed of themselves...people pay good money to see crap like that?

Hell, they were so outclassed that Ovechkin, ALL GAME, just camped out at the opposing blueline, just DARING the Sabres not to keep a defenseman back with him. I've seen 'cherry picking' before but this just seemed almost like Bruce Boudreau knew his team could handle the Sabres even if outmanned in their zone and just feed a breakaway pass to Ovy.

The Sabres better as hell take that as a slap in the face...Lindy Ruff should make them skate 'Herb Brooks' style for two hours after the game and needless to say, the 4-2 scoreline flatters Buffalo immensely.

Infuriating but boy oh boy is there something missing in Buffalo right now. They are the definition of mediocre.

[Galaxy]

I have season's tickets for the Sabres but due to a newborn baby, tonight was only the third game I've been able to get to this year.

I should have stayed home. What a disgraceful performance by Buffalo. They should be ashamed of themselves...people pay good money to see crap like that?

Hell, they were so outclassed that Ovechkin, ALL GAME, just camped out at the opposing blueline, just DARING the Sabres not to keep a defenseman back with him. I've seen 'cherry picking' before but this just seemed almost like Bruce Boudreau knew his team could handle the Sabres even if outmanned in their zone and just feed a breakaway pass to Ovy.

The Sabres better as hell take that as a slap in the face...Lindy Ruff should make them skate 'Herb Brooks' style for two hours after the game and needless to say, the 4-2 scoreline flatters Buffalo immensely.

Infuriating but boy oh boy is there something missing in Buffalo right now. They are the definition of mediocre.

I just don't understand this team for the last year or two. They keep doing the same thing over and over. They don't seem to take the man when they are on defense, instead of watching the puck. They get too fancy. Just get in front of the net and shoot. No passion either.

[Maple Leafs]

Just curious if anyone else would like to see this.
In the NFL, you often see the director of officiating coming out Monday or Tuesday after games ruling on a call. Why don't we see this more often in the NHL?
THe NHL should absolutely do this. The NFL admits when the officials make a mistake, and that means they have credibility when they stand by a ruling. The NHL always, always claims they got it right, so nobody listens.

It's all about the integrity of the game. But in an era where the standings don't even make sense, we can't ask too much.

[Tekneek]

A recent NHL call-up of note, at least personally speaking, is the Colorado Avalanche calling up Chris Durno. He started his pro career with our local ECHL team (Gwinnett Gladiators) during their first season here.

Colorado Avalanche - Team: Chris Durno Official Player Page (http://avalanche.nhl.com/team/app?page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8472263&service=page)

[MikeVic]

THe NHL should absolutely do this. The NFL admits when the officials make a mistake, and that means they have credibility when they stand by a ruling. The NHL always, always claims they got it right, so nobody listens.

It's all about the integrity of the game. But in an era where the standings don't even make sense, we can't ask too much.

Just because 24 of the 30s teams are at or above .500 doesn't mean the standings don't make sense.