FOF Stat Question: 3rd Down Conversions

[cuervo72]

I'm doing a little number crunching with the FOFL database, and found something a little peculiar that I can't figure out.

Basically, I'm summing the 3rd down attempts via run and pass, and the 3rd down conversions via run and pass. I'm seeing this for my team:

3rd down conversions: 52
3rd down attempts: 114

However, these are the numbers that appear in game:

3rd down conversions: 52
3rd down attempts: 117

Anyone have any ideas where these other three attempts are coming from? My first thought was that penalties might be reflected here where they can't be by the player stats...but in that case, wouldn't successful conversions via penalty show up in BOTH columns? Note that this is something I'm seeing for all teams, not just mine.

[gstelmack]

Penalties against the offense on 3rd down? Trying to think of situations where you'd get a 3rd down attempt but no stat credit. What about QB Kneeldowns?

This is for the current season, correct? So we're not worried about past season players / stats that might have been cleaned out of the database?

[cuervo72]

Yep, for the current season. Not a bad idea, but would kneels count as rushes? Penalties against the offense...I'd think they'd either be declined and the play would count, or the play would be negated.

If I choose to tally these, I may just go with the sums that I have and ignore the difference. I don't think anyone would much care.

(re: db cleaning - I try to keep everything, so that shouldn't be an issue for past years I don't think)

[johnnyshaka]

What about a half ending on what would be third down...had they been able to get the play off??

[Celeval]

Oddball, but field goals on third down (end of half/game)?

[cuervo72]

Hmm...could be FG, that's an idea - though if that were the case, wouldn't they show up under 4th down attempts too?

[Ben E Lou]

Hmm...could be FG, that's an idea - though if that were the case, wouldn't they show up under 4th down attempts too?Maybe Jim forgot to trap for those, since it's less obvious?

[cuervo72]

Maybe Jim forgot to trap for those, since it's less obvious?

Yeah, that had occurred to me as being a possibility.

[danimal]

I'm fairly certain those extra 3rd down attempts in the game are attempts that resulted in sacks. The database, which counts 3rd down rush attempts and 3rd down pass attempts, won't include attempts that resulted in a sack because these are not counted as pass attempts.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a way to replicate the in-game 3rd down conversion numbers using the database. There's no way to know which of the sacks recorded in the database occurred on 3rd downs.

[cuervo72]

Third down sacks - that I can definitely buy, I don't suppose they count as a rush or a pass attempt. And you're right, you can't really isolate them (w/o Solevision data, anyway).

Thanks.

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Good call there, danimal.

[Celeval]

Nice.