The thread of the 2008-2009 NBA Season

[stevew]

So, it should be very interesting going into this year. I believe I've finally recovered from my 3 month depression after the Cavs playoff debacle.

We've got that OKC Thunder thing. Philly should be legit, at least on paper. Brand should be back, I'm interested to see how it plays out. We may finally get a verdict on the Jason Kidd/Shaq moves. Miami should be interesting to watch as well. I think their #1 pick this year is going to be Beastley :) And finally, the Bulls weren't as bad as they pretended to be last year. And they got Derrick Rose? Unfair.

Yeah, there's some West Coast teams I'm sure people will be interested in. Just not me.

Anyways, it's all King James' world, we just live in it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Go Lakers!

[Sublime 2]

Green 18!!

[JeeberD]

The Rockets with Artest are going to be awesome...

[LloydLungs]

My Hornets looking good in preseason...

Oh man, I think I'm regretting this post already.

[Coffee Warlord]

And finally, the Bulls weren't as bad as they pretended to be last year. And they got Derrick Rose? Unfair.

However, (and yes, I know it's early in the preseason), they look like a disorganized mess who has forgotten how to play defense, with a completely green head coach.

Which they are. And which they are.

Their strength was their team-first/play hard 100% of the time attitude. Egos came out last year, and my guess is they haven't gone away.

[vex]

Go Thunder! :) (In our quest for the #1 pick)

[RedKingGold]

Admittedly, I've been more of a casual NBA fan, only really paying attention during the playoffs.

However, with Elton Brand's signing in Philly, I'll probably be taking more of an interest and may try to get to a game or two.

[Big Fo]

Hopefully my Orlando Magic will improve upon last season's 50-win season. Maybe they can make it to the conference finals this year.

[rjolley]

I may catch a Hawks game or two, especially when the Bulls come into town. We took the kids to a game last year and everyone enjoyed it a lot.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that Brand will regret going from a team where he was one of the best players in history to a team where the fans will boo him at the first sign of weakness/trouble.

He had it good with the Clips.

[Lathum]

Nets are a young team that will have alot of ups and downs but Harris is a stud and really its all about holding the fort until LeBron rolls into town.

I think Lopez falling in the draft and Boone developing we should have a solid front court. If only they could rid themselves of Carter, or at least have him stay healthy.

[Neuqua]

Hah, I saw that video earlier. Poor Harris got hustled.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's all about Green 18, as Sublime mentioned earlier. Least one of our teams needs to bring something this year.

[larrymcg421]

Ah, basketball season is upon us. Tis a time when I can unite with the Boston fans that I so detest when it comes to football.

[Sublime 2]

Ah, basketball season is upon us. Tis a time when I can unite with the Boston fans that I so detest when it comes to football.

Welcome.

[MrBug708]

Go Lakers :)

[Chief Rum]

Go Clippers. Mark it down. We'll be a lot better than people expect.

[stevew]

Go Clippers. Mark it down. We'll be a lot better than people expect.

I expect somewhere around 32 wins.

[Chief Rum]

I expect somewhere around 32 wins.

We'll beat that. We'll be in the group contending for the final three or so spots in the West, clearly behind the Lakers, Spurs and Hornets, and probably the Rockets and Jazz. It will be us, the Suns, the Mavs and the Blazers looking at the last three spots, with the Warriors maybe making a run if they can hold out until Ellis gets healthy. Since the East still mostly sucks, we'll be above .500, probably between 45-50 wins (and still might not be enough to get in).

[stevew]

Okay, so what you're saying is that my prediction of 40% more wins than last year is conservative. Injuries troubles from last year aside, I strongly doubt the clippers can add 100% more wins than the previous year.

I just don't see it. I suppose if B-diddy and Kaman stay healthy, then maybe somewhere between our predictions would be more likely.

[Neon_Chaos]

In case no one noticed...

Go Lakers! :D

:cool: <--- Jack Nicholson

[Chief Rum]

Okay, so what you're saying is that my prediction of 40% more wins than last year is conservative. Injuries troubles from last year aside, I strongly doubt the clippers can add 100% more wins than the previous year.

I just don't see it. I suppose if B-diddy and Kaman stay healthy, then maybe somewhere between our predictions would be more likely.

Last year was done almost completely without Brand, so losing him isn't really like having to replace him, so much as it is starting from base level of last year's team.

Obviously, injuries can affect things. I am throwing out the possibility that Davis and Kaman will miss something along the lines of the entire year to injury. We can't make predictions like that, and if they happen, obviously, all of our predictions are thrown out the window. What would your prediction for Cleveland be without King James, for instance? I am assessing this on the talent that's on these teams right now and assuming at least moderate health, because, really, I can't assume anything else.

Here's what you have. Last year's team has lost Maggette (a mixed bag) and at best a bunch of role player types (Quentin Ross, Cassell, Brevin Knight, etc.). To that, they have added Camby, Eric Gordon, Ricky Davis, Jason Hart, Steve Novak, and Davis. Outside of Davis, none of those guys are stars, but they are all "players" or expected to be (Gordon). Thornton, an all-NBA Rookie 1st teamer, will be one year better and able to play his logical position as a starter, SF. Kaman won't have to go it alone. We still have Mobley and Thomas, which isn't saying much, but those are still two more players where you know what you're going to get. And if you don't know about Mike Taylor, look him up. He will make an impact this year backing up Davis. Heck, even DeAndre Jordan has looked good so far.

You watch, it will end up being a 100% improvement if the team gets at least 65 games each from Davis and Kaman and Thornton and Camby. Davis is the only real risk there, based on his history.

[Oilers9911]

Lets go Raptors. If JO can stay healthy, and that is a big IF, they should be solid this year. With Calderon taking full control of the PG position and some help for Bosh down low they could do some damage.

[vex]

Fantasy question:

Should I keep DeShawn Stevenson or pick up Eric Gordon?

[jeheinz72]

Obviously, injuries can affect things. I am throwing out the possibility that Davis and Kaman will miss something along the lines of the entire year to injury. We can't make predictions like that, and if they happen, obviously, all of our predictions are thrown out the window.

Ha, I'm a W's fan and I can predict Davis' injury.

Surely you don't think it's a mere coincidence that he just happened to play in all 82 games for the first the year before he opted out, do you?

I loved Boom Dizzle, he was great for the Dubs franchise, but realistically, he's not nearly as good as he or others think he is. StackJack and Ellis (and Nelson/Biedrins) got the W's over the hump 2 seasons back, not really Baron Davis. We managed to suck just fine with him before the others arrived.

[jeheinz72]

As far the W's themselves, could be a tough year. No Ellis for a huge chunk and a roster in flux.

As long as Wright shows improvement, Randolph holds his own and we're in the mix for the playoffs most of the year, I'll be happy. 40 wins would be nice.

[TroyF]

You'll find Camby to be wretched. Even when he's not hurt, he'll play that way a lot of the time. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone, but he's the single most selfish defensive player I've ever seen.

If there isn't a block or rebound in it for him, he's just not that interested. Do you want Camby or Shaq as a pick and roll defender? A: Neither. Both can't or won't defend the play. He does throw one hell of an alley oop pass and can dominate when he's interested. He's just not interested that often.

I firmly believe the Nuggets will be a better team without Marcus Camby. (I said so many times last year before this went down)

If Davis, Kaman and Camby end up playing 65 games, maybe they will get to the playoffs. Of course, I'll die of shock as well, so there is that.

Nuggets will go as far as Melo and JR can take them. AI desperately needs to go before they can really move up a level. Do you guys want him after Baron goes down? I'll give you the same deal as the Camby one?

[weegeebored]

I think the Bulls will win less than 40 games this year. They are such a mismatched team. John Paxson is a pretty bad GM. Look at his drafts and big money contract extensions to average players to see what I mean. Why did Heinrich and Deng deserve all of that money? And Ben Gordon has already turned down $50mil/5 years. How much does he think that he's worth as he can't defend anyone nor can he handle the rock? He figures that Pax is stupid and will sign him for more $$ just like he did with Deng.

And I don't believe that Derrick Rose will be another Chris Paul.

[Pumpy Tudors]

What does "Green 18" mean? It obviously has something to do with the Celtics, but I'm confused otherwise.

The Grizzlies will suck again, so when they're playing, I'll pretty much just cut myself and then watch a hockey game.

[stevew]

What would your prediction for Cleveland be without King James, for instance?

20-62, and they play in a weak conference. The Clips play out west(obviously) and face better teams.

[Neon_Chaos]

What does "Green 18" mean? It obviously has something to do with the Celtics, but I'm confused otherwise.


Celtics gunning for their 18th title

[Groundhog]

Fantasy question:

Should I keep DeShawn Stevenson or pick up Eric Gordon?

I'd take Gordon. His shooting is looking streaky as hell, but with the Clips lack of firepower he'll have his 30 point nights.

[Groundhog]

As far the W's themselves, could be a tough year. No Ellis for a huge chunk and a roster in flux.

As long as Wright shows improvement, Randolph holds his own and we're in the mix for the playoffs most of the year, I'll be happy. 40 wins would be nice.

I was watching the Bucks-Warriors preseason game the other day and, despite being arguably the worst game of basketball I've ever seen, Randolph had some amazing blocks in the first quarter. Yowzers. One started a fast break, and another was just plain humiliating. I think Wright will be the more productive one ths year scoring wise, but Randolph's big play potential will get him minutes.

Maggette is the one I'd worry about if I were a Warriors fan. He gets to the line a lot, but I think the Warriors' "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy is going to hurt his game. The amount of bad jumpers he took in this game was alarming. Hopefully for Warriors fans he was just getting them out of his system in the preseason.

Also, if Biedrins doesn't get about 15-12 this year, he's being critically under-used. Kid has some serious talent. Put him on a less perimeter-based roster and I think he'd be a monster.

[vex]

I'd take Gordon. His shooting is looking streaky as hell, but with the Clips lack of firepower he'll have his 30 point nights.

One more;)

Wilson Chandler or Rudy Fernandez?

[Groundhog]

One more;)

Wilson Chandler or Rudy Fernandez?

Well, going off preseason, I'd take Chandler. Chandler could wind up with some very nice numbers this year if he gets the minutes, and while I think Fernandez will have a pretty good year, I don't know if the minutes are there for him to be able to put up big numbers. Chandler might be playing starter minutes.

[Chief Rum]

I'll admit, I am looking at the Clips through biased eyeware. But I do think they will be better than stevew suggests, and that they will contend for the playoffs. There will be a sharp division between the top teams and the mediocre teams, and the Clips will be distantly behind the top teams (Lakers, Spurs, Hornets, Rockets and Jazz to a less extent, but still distant). I truly believe they can stick around right with/slightly behind the Suns and Mavs, though, and will contend with the Blazers for the final spot (Warriors and Nuggets in the mix slightly back as well).

It will take some health, and you're all right, that that is the biggest question mark. If they stay healthy, I think the Clips have the sixth best roster, top to bottom, in the Western conference, even if they don't have any individual players at the level of Amare Stoudamire or Dirk Nowitzki.

As for Camby, yes, Troy, I know you don't like him, and I'm not saying you're not right. But he will contribute to this team if he's healthy, and while he may not play as well as you think he should, I think he will still make a difference for us here. Especially finally playing with some actual help underneath, which, really, he never actually had in Denver.

[Neon_Chaos]

Houston's comback with Knicks over

Houston comeback over, Knicks' roster at 16 - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=As_KguboqGoLd0H3yoS6CRG8vLYF?slug=ap-knicksmoves&prov=ap&type=lgns)

[sterlingice]

The Rockets with Artest are going to be awesome...

Yay! We're relying on 2 injury-prone guys and a crazy one! Kindof reminds me of the Hakeem + Clyde + Chuck season ;)

SI

[JeeberD]

We have enough depth that if one or two of them get injured, we'll be fine.

[TroyF]

I'll admit, I am looking at the Clips through biased eyeware. But I do think they will be better than stevew suggests, and that they will contend for the playoffs. There will be a sharp division between the top teams and the mediocre teams, and the Clips will be distantly behind the top teams (Lakers, Spurs, Hornets, Rockets and Jazz to a less extent, but still distant). I truly believe they can stick around right with/slightly behind the Suns and Mavs, though, and will contend with the Blazers for the final spot (Warriors and Nuggets in the mix slightly back as well).

It will take some health, and you're all right, that that is the biggest question mark. If they stay healthy, I think the Clips have the sixth best roster, top to bottom, in the Western conference, even if they don't have any individual players at the level of Amare Stoudamire or Dirk Nowitzki.

As for Camby, yes, Troy, I know you don't like him, and I'm not saying you're not right. But he will contribute to this team if he's healthy, and while he may not play as well as you think he should, I think he will still make a difference for us here. Especially finally playing with some actual help underneath, which, really, he never actually had in Denver.

Camby would actually fight our guys for rebounds. A big reason he didn't have any help is because of how he'd elbow guys out of the way for the ball. People think I'm crazy, but I'm going to tell you Denver's D and rebounding will be improved with him off the court this year.

That said, of course he'll help the Clippers. With a decent defending big man in Kaman, he'll be able to dive around a lot more. The problem is how long it'll be before Kaman is out with a broken nose from a Camby elbow.

All kidding aside, the health is where your off base here. It's only preseason and already both Baron and Camby are fighting injuries. (Camby needs a cortozone shot for a badly bruised heel and Davis has a finger injury) You can say "both aren't serious, they'll be back for the opener", but is it really a good sign that two injury prone players are already fighting the injury bug before the start of the season?

The other issue is that those three guys are the key guys on the team. It isn't going to take two of the three to suffer major injuries for the Clippers to struggle. I Kaman or Camby miss time, who comes in? Thomas? Skinner? If Baron goes out who steps in, Gordon? Hart?

My Nuggets face the same issue. If Nene were to stay healthy, they could be a very dangerous team. AI/JR/Melo/KMart/Nene is one hell of a group. But Nene isn't going to stay healthy. (and it's questionable KMart will as well) When he goes down for 25 games, where are we going to turn? Chris Anderson? Juwon Howard?

I think the Clippers win 30-34 games and don't even sniff a playoff spot. Just my opinon, I could be wrong. :)

[jeheinz72]

I was watching the Bucks-Warriors preseason game the other day and, despite being arguably the worst game of basketball I've ever seen, Randolph had some amazing blocks in the first quarter. Yowzers. One started a fast break, and another was just plain humiliating. I think Wright will be the more productive one ths year scoring wise, but Randolph's big play potential will get him minutes.

Maggette is the one I'd worry about if I were a Warriors fan. He gets to the line a lot, but I think the Warriors' "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy is going to hurt his game. The amount of bad jumpers he took in this game was alarming. Hopefully for Warriors fans he was just getting them out of his system in the preseason.

Also, if Biedrins doesn't get about 15-12 this year, he's being critically under-used. Kid has some serious talent. Put him on a less perimeter-based roster and I think he'd be a monster.

Agreed.

Magette was kind of a necessary evil. They had to get *someone* to replace Davis. Now Magette isn't Davis, but he's of the vet-scorer ilk and the W's need to have more than just StackJack as far as vets.

I'd agree on Biedrins, he's probably my favorite Warrior

[cartman]

Sad news about Isiah Thomas:

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/isiah.thomas.overdose.2.848132.html

Harrison police were sent to the home of former New York Knicks president Isiah Thomas early Friday morning in response to a call that he had overdosed on sleeping pills, a source confirmed to CBS 2.

[Butter]

Nice to see the Cavs injury problems starting up again already.

[Schmidty]

PING: Celtic Fans

We're for real this year.

Signed,

Detroit Pistons

[mckerney]

The Wolves while still be terrible while the fans wait for Glen Taylor, Kevin McHale, Randy Whitman, Randy Foye, Corey Brewer, Brian Cardinal to be gone. And hopefully Mike Miller won't be around for too long.

I still miss OJ Mayo. :(

It's no wonder they need to give away hundreds of tickets to the home opener.

[Neuqua]

I'm headed to the United Center to watch the Bulls home opener, excited to see Rose in action!

[bulletsponge]

PING: Celtic Fans

We're for real this year. until the playoffs when everyone else starts to play hard also, then we will fold and claim to be the best anyways

Signed,

Detroit Pistons


fixed that for ya

[Groundhog]

Eddie Curry "stunned" that McRib promotion is only available for a limited time.

No, wait, misread that, Eddie Curry "stunned" he's not in the rotation.

ESPN - Eddy Curry not part of New York Knicks' regular rotation (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3669122)

What a fall for Eddy Curry. Looks like he did have a career-threatening heart problem after all - just of a non-medical nature.

[Schmidty]

fixed that for ya

My post was a joke, but I will say that the Pistons never claimed to be the best after they lost. If you have a quote, show me.

[molson]

I promised myself I wouldn't follow the league anymore unless they aggressively addressed the referee situation. And they've done nothing, which I can't blame them for, because everybody's giving them a pass on the fact that there were rigged games and no real assurances that it isn't still happening.

Donaghy implicated other refs and the league as a whole, and though he's a criminal, it's necessarily true that only criminals have the best real dirt (i.e. Jose Canseco).

Ah well, I'm still into the Celtics, who didn't lose enough last year to ever be made upset by refs.

[Karlifornia]

God, the Blazers really laid an egg in the first half. They're still in it, only down 15. I get the feeling they'll make a run to get it with a couple of baskets, and then fade down the stretch. LA plays tough defense.

[Lathum]

I am more juiced for the start of the NBA then I have been in a long time.

[stevew]

I see we're back to LeBrick again. Way to split the free throws every time.

(i listened to most of the radio broadcast)
The cavs sounded like the team I want them to be in the first half, and then promptly(as per usual) laid a big fuckin egg in the 3rd quarter. Yes, the Boston defense is impressive. But Mike Brown has got to be able to make better adjustments in order to play winning basketball. It's an ongoing thing with that guy, I don't think he's an NBA calibre head coach. And he needs to be replaced sooner than later.

[Groundhog]

I see we're back to LeBrick again. Way to split the free throws every time.

(i listened to most of the radio broadcast)
The cavs sounded like the team I want them to be in the first half, and then promptly(as per usual) laid a big fuckin egg in the 3rd quarter. Yes, the Boston defense is impressive. But Mike Brown has got to be able to make better adjustments in order to play winning basketball. It's an ongoing thing with that guy, I don't think he's an NBA calibre head coach. And he needs to be replaced sooner than later.

As I've said before, Mike Brown would make a good Defensive Coordinator-type coach, but I don't think he's a head coach. This Cavs offense just sucks ass.

I just don't understand how we can have all these guys that could shoot pre-Cleveland throw on a Cavs jersey and suddenly not be able to hit the side of a barn. It's not because they suck all of a sudden, it's because the offense isn't getting these guys the shots they need.

[Groundhog]

God, the Blazers really laid an egg in the first half. They're still in it, only down 15. I get the feeling they'll make a run to get it with a couple of baskets, and then fade down the stretch. LA plays tough defense.

I hope Oden's injury isn't too severe.

[stevew]

As I've said before, Mike Brown would make a good Defensive Coordinator-type coach, but I don't think he's a head coach. This Cavs offense just sucks ass.

I just don't understand how we can have all these guys that could shoot pre-Cleveland throw on a Cavs jersey and suddenly not be able to hit the side of a barn. It's not because they suck all of a sudden, it's because the offense isn't getting these guys the shots they need.

I don't think he's competent enough to put the lid back on the toothpaste after he's done. The guy's just a fuckin loser, and needs to go. I'm sure they'll finally figure out that he was the main source of our problems when they announce the first post-LeBron head coach in Cleveland. Circa 2010.

I do think this Mo thing is going to work out tho...Brown was mostly playing the right guys(finally) and showed a lot of Bron at the 4. I mean, that needed to happen. But we're still giving Pavs some run? C'mon. Or at worst, bench Wally ding dong and play Pavs. Regardless both aren't winning players. And neither is Ben Wallace anymore. But of course, they managed to ship out Joe Smith. Who i'd take every day of the week as the starting PF over Big Ben.

[stevew]

I hope Oden's injury isn't too severe.

They must be uploading the Bowie 2.0 update over there. I hope he gets back, though. Dude was fun to watch in college, and I think he's going to be an absolute beast(if he can stay healthy).

[Groundhog]

And neither is Ben Wallace anymore. But of course, they managed to ship out Joe Smith. Who i'd take every day of the week as the starting PF over Big Ben.

I'm sure "Big Ben" must have a starters clause in his contract or something, because he has been dead weight now for 2 years. He adds absolutely NOTHING to the team. I'd rather see Varejao starting with Hickson coming off the bench.

I hope MoWill does work out for us. I really wasn't a fan of his at Milwaukee, but I like him at the two spot much more than the one even though it does leave us a little short in the backcourt. West at 6'3 can maybe much up with the smaller SGs, but I think this is why Pav needs to see minutes - even if he doesn't give us much at all. This is the main reason why I thought we were going to try and nab a guy like CDR or Brandon Rush in the draft.

[Karlifornia]

I am more juiced for the start of the NBA then I have been in a long time.

Who's your team?

[Lathum]

Who's your team?

the Nets.

but it is more a product of alot of good young players and the fact that I live on the west coast now and can watch some games before my wife gets home.

[Karlifornia]

the Nets.

but it is more a product of alot of good young players and the fact that I live on the west coast now and can watch some games before my wife gets home.

Ah..I'll be following the Nets a bit, with Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson being on the team. I like the moves that they've made. They may need some time to gel. Do you like Lawrence Frank?

[jeheinz72]

Agreed, I'm pulling for the Nets as my Eastern Conf. team. Go Bay Area College Products!

[Lathum]

Ah..I'll be following the Nets a bit, with Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson being on the team. I like the moves that they've made. They may need some time to gel. Do you like Lawrence Frank?

I'm iffy on Frank. When he took over they played well for him but the last few years has been up and down. I think he could be good for this team since he is a young guy and the Nets have a ton of young players, but they need to play for him this season or a change may be needed.

[Lathum]

dola- I loved getting Lopez with the 10th overall pick

[Groundhog]

dola- I loved getting Lopez with the 10th overall pick

I still can't believe the Bobcats didn't grab him.

[Lathum]

I am already sick of that NBA commercial with the piano music.

[MrBug708]

Lakers have looked good in their first two games

[Icy]

I'm also way more exicint about the NBA this year with all the Spanish players there, specially Rudy that i think will be a good contender for the ROY.

[Neon_Chaos]

Lakers have looked good in their first two games

:popcorn:

[jeheinz72]

Rough one for the Dubs last night. Gave New Orleans a good a run, but too many easy buckets allowed, poor FT shooting and bad crunch time decisions cost them...again.

[albionmoonlight]

Lakers have looked good in their first two games

Last year's finals made people forget just how good the Lakers are. I have a sense that Kobe knows that this is his last best chance to have one of those career defining seasons. And he has the horses on the team to do it.

[MikeVic]

Nice to see the Raps get so badly out-rebounded. :( They won, but they have to improve there still. Dalembert with 17 boards?

[Groundhog]

Last year's finals made people forget just how good the Lakers are. I have a sense that Kobe knows that this is his last best chance to have one of those career defining seasons. And he has the horses on the team to do it.

Indeed. Also, Farmar looks improved, and then of course there is that big Bynum guy in the middle. Dangerous team. I don't see anyone but the Lakers coming out of the West.

In the East it should be the Celtics again as well, but it remains to be seen how the loss of some bench depth will affect them.

[DeToxRox]

My hopes aren't high but the Pistons looked okay last night. I like that Curry is using a deep bench this season. Stuck, Maxiell, Dyess, Afflalo and Hermann off the bench is solid. I still wish we dealt Tay but he looked more aggressive with the ball last night which was something Curry has beaten into him all offseason. If he can become a consistent scorer Detroit can go places, but I am doubtful of it because he is so passive with the ball.

[sterlingice]

Rockets with a nice showing last night

SI

[MrBug708]

Clips are so bad

[Chief Rum]

Clips are so bad

Shush.

[MrBug708]

Dont worry Chief, I know it's hip to Clip

[mckerney]

Shush.

And it looks like you won't be getting your first rounder in 2009...

[Chief Rum]

And it looks like you won't be getting your first rounder in 2009...

lol...I'll wait until 2012 at this point. I would rather have the high pick than to get some Minnesota mid-first castoff three years sooner.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hinrich is out 3 months with a torn thumb ligament, requiring surgery.

Lot of people have been down on the guy, but he's still a very good defensive player with at least a bit of offensive ability.

[Groundhog]

Hinrich is out 3 months with a torn thumb ligament, requiring surgery.

Lot of people have been down on the guy, but he's still a very good defensive player with at least a bit of offensive ability.

I've been a big fan of his since his Kansas days. The biggest problem with him in Chicago is that the Bulls simply have too many jump shooters and not enough slashers and post players, so Hinrich adds to a glut.

Having said that, Rose looks good thus far (especially if he finds a jump shot) with his penetration ability, and that's really going to help Deng, Gordon and, when healthy, Hinrich get open shots on the perimeter, especially once defenses start concentrating on closing down on Rose's penetration by crowding the key.

All the Bulls need is a post player like Aldridge. :(

Tyrus "Failboat" Thomas, outside of 1 or 2 highlight reel plays a week, is horrible. I'd honestly be playing Aaron Gray 35 minutes a game over Tyrus. At least Gray has size, hustles, and can score from the low block.

[Coffee Warlord]

All the Bulls need is a post player like Aldridge. :(

Tyrus "Failboat" Thomas, outside of 1 or 2 highlight reel plays a week, is horrible. I'd honestly be playing Aaron Gray 35 minutes a game over Tyrus. At least Gray has size, hustles, and can score from the low block.

I look at Aldridge and wonder "what if" alllll the freakin' time. Sigh. Hell, I'm still bitter over the Elton Brand trade after all these years.

And if Gray had the stamina to PLAY that long, I think he might be. Though he's got some work to do on the defensive end.

[MrBug708]

Lakers are playing well since the end of the first quarter

[larrymcg421]

Love to see how well Tony Allen is playing. Looks like he's finally fully recovered from his stupid injury.

[MrBug708]

Good game for the Lakers..put in almost 90 in the last three quarters of play

[Chief Rum]

CLIPPERS!!!











That is all. Nothing else to see here.

[Groundhog]

CLIPPERS!!!











That is all. Nothing else to see here.

Are you referring to your post, or the rest of the Clippers' season? :D

[Chief Rum]

Are you referring to your post, or the rest of the Clippers' season? :D

Ouch! If I didn't like Aussies, I would slap you around some. :D

I still have hope, but let's say this season hasn't exactly started as well as I had hoped.

[weegeebored]

I've been a big fan of his since his Kansas days. The biggest problem with him in Chicago is that the Bulls simply have too many jump shooters and not enough slashers and post players, so Hinrich adds to a glut.

Having said that, Rose looks good thus far (especially if he finds a jump shot) with his penetration ability, and that's really going to help Deng, Gordon and, when healthy, Hinrich get open shots on the perimeter, especially once defenses start concentrating on closing down on Rose's penetration by crowding the key.

All the Bulls need is a post player like Aldridge. :(

Tyrus "Failboat" Thomas, outside of 1 or 2 highlight reel plays a week, is horrible. I'd honestly be playing Aaron Gray 35 minutes a game over Tyrus. At least Gray has size, hustles, and can score from the low block.I don't understand why Bulls fans aren't screaming for John Paxon's head! Now that Isaiah Thomas and Elgin Baylor are no longer GMs, Pax is the worst GM in the NBA. (Well, maybe 2nd worst. I forgot about McHale.) His draft history, trades, free agent signings (and lack thereof), and contract extensions are proof. (Neither Hinrich nor Deng -- especially Deng -- deserve the money that they got for being average NBA players.)

And when guys like Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, and Deng still had some trade value he refused to trade them based on their "potential". (I forget which coach/AD/GM said this years ago but it was something like "Potential is a French word which means you ain't done nothin' yet.") So he essentially was forced to re-sign them (Deng and Gordon) or let them go and get nothing.

I stand by my prediction that the Bulls will not win 40 games this year. However, I think that I was wrong about Derrick Rose after seeing him play some NBA games. The kid does have skills. I just hope he can make a few jumpers (but not turn into a jump shooter) just to keep the defense from sagging.

[Sublime 2]

Love to see how well Tony Allen is playing. Looks like he's finally fully recovered from his stupid injury.

Yep, really a great game for TA. Big Baby played well too. It seems that someone from the bench is always stepping up; Powe, Baby, TA, or House. Don't get me wrong I miss Poz, but I'm glad we didn't re-sign him for the money/years he wanted. Is the bench weaker, absolutely; but not as weak as many have thought it would be.

[DaddyTorgo]

C's bench will be fine.

A year of experience under Big Baby's belt is going to pay off quite nicely - also a year of conditioning. Powe just needs to continue to be the "hustle" guy and the defender that he is and chip in with 6pts and some boards. Allen is looking better, and House is House. Will be interesting to see how the younger guys perform at some point too, although I guess we don't foresee them getting too many minutes.

edit: the thing that Posey provided was I guess, a higher-level hybrid of Allen/House if you want to call it that. A great hustling defender who could spot up and hit the shots when it mattered. So in effect by losing him, they lose the ability to have one player fulfill both of those roles.

[Neon_Chaos]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3614/andrewrw9.png

[DaddyTorgo]

I think the whole "buyout and then the guy can resign with his old team" thing is bullshit. Even if it were to benefit my team I'd think it was sneaky and crappy.

IMO it ought to be that if you're bought out you can't resign with any team that you have played with within the last 12 months, for a period of 6 months.

So if one team dealt you on 11/15/08 and then the second team bought you out on 11/20/08 you couldn't resign with the first team till 5/15/09 and the second team till 5/20/09. But if the first team just straight bought you out on 11/15/08 you couldn't resign with them till 5/15/09 either.

Lil bit longer than the stupid 30-days as it currently exists, but really I think it's a much better rule this way. Avoids all these sorts of "backroom wink" kind of aspects to it.

[stevew]

Yeah, i posted similar thoughts in the other trade thread. It's disgraceful. Basically I don't think you should be able to re-sign with the former club at any point in the current season.

[albionmoonlight]

Devil's Advocate here.

I am sure that McDyess did not sign anything binding with Detroit and he could, if another team made him a really good over over the next 30 days, take it.

And why should he not be allowed to live in a city and work for an employer where he clearly has a level of comfort? If I were the players union, I would certainly object to any rule that says that if team X cuts you, then you cannot sign with team Y. Freedom of movement is important.

All that said, we all know what happened here, and I agree that it operates as a skeezy workaround to the NBA's salary cap.

[MrBug708]

Yeah, i posted similar thoughts in the other trade thread. It's disgraceful. Basically I don't think you should be able to re-sign with the former club at any point in the current season.

The Brent Barry clause?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Devil's Advocate here.

I am sure that McDyess did not sign anything binding with Detroit and he could, if another team made him a really good over over the next 30 days, take it.

And why should he not be allowed to live in a city and work for an employer where he clearly has a level of comfort? If I were the players union, I would certainly object to any rule that says that if team X cuts you, then you cannot sign with team Y. Freedom of movement is important.
How about if a team wants to keep a player, they don't trade him away in the first place?

[MrBug708]

Awesome Dallas-Lakers game

[JPhillips]

The NBA has no interest in limiting players from returning to teams. The NBA loves blockbuster trades, but with the salary cap those are hard to put together. Having wink and nod agreements to cut a player is a price the NBA is willing to pay in order to get the buzz of big trades.

All this really means is that Denver would have taken Billups and Samb for Iverson, but it wouldn't work with the cap, so McDyess was added temporarily to make the trade happen.

[Neon_Chaos]

Awesome Dallas-Lakers game

:popcorn::D

[MrBug708]

Lakers were up big on NO tonight and while NO closed it, they weren't in that big of a danger of losing this game

[Neon_Chaos]

How good the Lakers are this season is inversely proportional to how bad the Clippers have been.

[Fighter of Foo]

Kickass game in Boston (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008111202) last night.

[Bad-example]

From Rotoworld:

"Andris Biedrins had 17 points, 16 rebounds and four assists in the Warriors win on Saturday.
Biedrins has opened the season with 10 consecutive double-doubles, averaging a monstrous 16.8 points and 14.8 rebounds. He is also setting career highs in assists (1.6), steals (1.0), and blocks (1.7). Not too shabby."

The guy is only 22. What will he be once his body fills out?

[Neon_Chaos]

From Rotoworld:

"Andris Biedrins had 17 points, 16 rebounds and four assists in the Warriors win on Saturday.
Biedrins has opened the season with 10 consecutive double-doubles, averaging a monstrous 16.8 points and 14.8 rebounds. He is also setting career highs in assists (1.6), steals (1.0), and blocks (1.7). Not too shabby."

The guy is only 22. What will he be once his body fills out?

Not surprised at all bout Biedrin's numbers. When your starting PF is Corey Maggette, and the person coming in for you is Ronny Turiaf, you're not going to have a lot of competition for rebounds.

[stevew]

From Rotoworld:

"Andris Biedrins had 17 points, 16 rebounds and four assists in the Warriors win on Saturday.
Biedrins has opened the season with 10 consecutive double-doubles, averaging a monstrous 16.8 points and 14.8 rebounds. He is also setting career highs in assists (1.6), steals (1.0), and blocks (1.7). Not too shabby."

The guy is only 22. What will he be once his body fills out?

He has been insane for fantasy.

[Groundhog]

He has been insane for fantasy.

Indeed. :D

I've got both Biedrins AND Wade on my team, and so far they have both been killing it. Now I just need Durant to grab a rebound or two and I'm set.

[mckerney]

Updated list of people who need to go away from the Timberwolves:

Glen Taylor
Kevin McHale
Randy Wittman
Randy Foye
Corey Brewer
Kevin Love
Mike Miller
Jason Collins

[Atocep]

Indeed. :D

Now I just need Durant to grab a rebound or two and I'm set.

Speaking of Durant, a lot of people were hard on him last season (I was definitely one of them) but he played much better in the 2nd half offensively and looked like he could have huge season offensively this year. So far this season, he's shown zero improvement from last, though. The fact that he still isn't defending, shows no interest in rebounding, and doesnt have a clue how to pass has to be a concern.

[MikeVic]

Do you think Brad Miller, Rasheed Wallace, or Josh Howard are better fantasy options than David West for the season? West isn't doing good, and all three of the mentioned players are averaging more fantasy points in the league I'm in.

[MrBug708]

Updated list of people who need to go away from the Timberwolves:

Glen Taylor
Kevin McHale
Randy Wittman
Randy Foye
Corey Brewer
Kevin Love
Mike Miller
Jason Collins

Is that both the good and the bad?

[mckerney]

Is that both the good and the bad?

It's mostly bad, but for a couple not a fit for make up of the roster or because of cost. I don't think Kevin Love is a bad player (though I don't ever think he'll ever come close to being great), but when the plan has been to build around Al Jefferson, trading for Love was a bad move that doesn't make much sense. Jefferson is a power forward or undersized center who has a great offensive game, but is a sub par defender inside. So how to build around him? In not surprising McHale fashion the decision going into the draft was they absolutely needed Kevin Love, a power forward or undersized center with potential to have a great offensive game, but that is a sub par defender. The pairing of the two makes no sense with the necessity of a strong interior defense to be a legitimate contender, though I guess to McHale it makes sense after last year drafting SG/SF with an overrated repuation as a defender who is still learning to dribble and shoot about 20 spots too high. Add in Mike Miller being packaged with Love and the starting 3/4/5 on most nights makes for an absolutely terrible defense.

OJ Mayo made a lot more sense for this team. They don't have any good back court options right now, Mayo would be a great fit as a scoring paring with Jefferson. The Wolves were touting getting rid of Jaric's bad contract in the draft night deal, but they lost Antoine Walker's expiring deal, added Brian Cardinals bad contract, and took on a vastly overpaid Mike Miller. Mayo would have been a start for being able to build something for the future, but I don't see how Love next to Jefferson is a good foundation for the future when they could have done so much more picking 3rd. After screwing up the last few drafts by winding up with McCants, Foye and Brewer, this was another year where the draft was essential a waste.

[MrBug708]

Any Buck fans around? Whats the consensus on Mbah a Moute?

And Thunder fans, how is Westbrook doing?

[Groundhog]

I'm sort of a Bucks fan given Bogut is in the middle. Mbah a Moute has surprised the heck out of me. I didn't expect him to earn a roster spot let alone be a heavy rotational player.

Westbrook, from what I've seen, can't string two good games together. When he is on, he's electric, when he's off, he's shooting 3-19.

[stevew]

Should be an interesting 7 game stretch for the Cavs to finish the month.

They're on a 7 game win streak right now, and play the following games over the next two weeks.
@NJ
@DET(2nd night of b2b)
ATL
@NY
OKC(2nd night of b2b)
GS
@MIL(2nd night of b2b)

Hopefully Mike Brown can get them through this, but it could get ugly really quick if they lose some of these winnable games. Even if they do have all those b2b's this quickly.

[larrymcg421]

Awesome line for Rondo tonight. 9-15 for 22 pts. 8 Rebs. 7 Assists. 0 Turnovers.

[Neuqua]

World, Derrick Rose introduces himself:

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All from the same game. There's a reason to watch Chicago Bulls basketball again.

[JeeberD]

Seriously...is that Pumpy doing the color commentary?

[Karlifornia]

Seriously...is that Pumpy doing the color commentary?

LOL....don't be a play-ur hay-tur

[Groundhog]

When I'm feeling a little down or depressed, I like to compare the following two lots of statistics:

Randy Foye - 12.8ppg 5.8apg .413 fg%
Kevin Love - 8.7ppg 6.5rpg .402 fg%

Brandon Roy - 20.9ppg 5.3apg .463 fg%
OJ Mayo - 21.9ppg 4.2rpg .464% fg

[RainMaker]

World, Derrick Rose introduces himself:

<object height="344" width="425">


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<object height="344" width="425">


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<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qyQyjgGPOfA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>


All from the same game. There's a reason to watch Chicago Bulls basketball again.

I was real close to not renewing my season tickets. They got the first pick and I called the next day to renew.

He broke Miller's ankles a couple days later in Chicago again. He is going to be the best PG in the league in a year or two. Defenders will play off him by almost five feet and he'll still blow by them. It's too bad that the rest of the team is pure trash. The Bulls would be an exciting team in the playoffs if they had anyone else.

[RainMaker]

Seriously...is that Pumpy doing the color commentary?

Stacey King. Makes me miss Johnny "Red" Kerr.

[Chief Rum]

Will someone please finally bump Dunleavy up to the front office permanently, and get someone in here who can coach?

[Chief Rum]

Here's a great idea. Leave Turkoglu and Lewis open for three. Go for it. Live on the edge.

[Chief Rum]

So frustrating. How many games have we led going into the quarter, only to completely blow it? It's not about talent. This team has talent. It's about heart and character and consistency. I can see Baron has heart, but he can't do it by himself. The rest of this team has got to step it up and match his intensity, and not leave him out there to dry. And it starts at the top. Dunleavy has proven for years now that he's not a good gameday coach. Let's get one in here, preferably one that will allow this team to run more, which is what suits its personnel. I say Avery Johnson. Still don't know why he doesn't have a job.

[stevew]

Clips looking good in preseason eh Rum.

They'd need to go 40 and 20 to get where you expect them to be. :)

[Chief Rum]

Clips looking good in preseason eh Rum.

They'd need to go 40 and 20 to get where you expect them to be. :)

Thanks for not rubbing it in.

[Neon_Chaos]

KG making Big Baby cry.

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[albionmoonlight]

Re: Charlotte/Phoenix trade

I don't know if this is really what you want your coach saying after you make a trade:

"When you try to get better, you're going to lose some assets," Charlotte coach Larry Brown said. "We're losing a pretty darn good player and the way Phoenix is trying to make their team, they just added an unbelievable piece."

I mean, don't most coaches and GMs at least talk about the trade from their perspective? And try to spin it well? Or spin it at all? Brown basically told his fans, "We looked over everthing about the team, realized that your season ticket packages are not refundable, and decided to make this trade."

Suns acquire Richardson in 5-player swap - NBA - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/12/10/suns.bobcats.trade.ap/index.html)

[MikeVic]

Didn't they (Suns) just basically trade defense for offense?

[mckerney]

Thanks for not rubbing it in.

As a Timberwolves fan the team has not failed to meet my expectations for the year. Scapegoating a coach as the cause of the problems on this team who was bad, but everyone knew that he was bad when McHale just had to have him? Letting the guys who have screwed this team up so badly in McHale, Hoiberg, and Stack stay in charge? Still letting McHale have final say over personal moves after making some fans happy by removing his front office title? Telling the fans, "Hey, we could have 4 first round draft picks next year!" even though you've completely screwed up your last 6 first round picks, and even if you do draft a star you'll just trade him away draft night? Done and done.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, we're a sorry lot, aren't we, mckerney? We need to get a Charlotte, Memphis and Thunder fan all together and we can challenge each other for who actually has the worst franchise in the NBA.

[mckerney]

Yeah, we're a sorry lot, aren't we, mckerney? We need to get a Charlotte, Memphis and Thunder fan all together and we can challenge each other for who actually has the worst franchise in the NBA.

That would not be a bad idea.



At least there's college basketball.

[Chief Rum]

Looks like Cutino Mobley is retiring immediately, due to the enlarged heart discovered in his physical with the Knicks.

He's got to do what's best for him, so I hope this allows him to live a good and long life, rather than risking it further on the court. He's a millionaire many times over, so he should have no need for the money.

[JeeberD]

Poor Cat. I always liked him when he was with the Rockets...

[Chief Rum]

Poor Cat. I always liked him when he was with the Rockets...

Agreed. While I was never a fan of his game (unwise shooter at times, very inconsistent, never the three point shooter he could have been, D was turnover-focused rather than man-focused), he himself always seemed to be a fairly likable guy.

[Sublime 2]

I'm just going to give my rundown and grade of the C's so far this season. Probably won't focus on the stats much, but more on what I'm seeing.

Rondo
Easily the catalyst so far. Started slowly, but he's really leading this team now. All of the Big 3 are deferring to him and letting him run the show. Not All-Star worthy this year, but he's on the verge. Shooting is still his downfall, but there's no need for him to shoot a jumpshot when he knows the more efficient play is to give it up to one of the more adept scorers. A+

Ray
Is on an absolute tear right now. This is the Ray Allen Celts fans were expecting last year, everything he throws up, I fully expect to go in. He is really clicking with Rondo and getting comfortable being the go-to 3 point assassin. A

Pierce
With Ray's hot streak, the burden of scoring has really been lifted from PP's shoulders. He is still the go-to player in crunch time IMO, but throughout the rest of the game is really letting the game come to him. Even when his shot isn't falling, and he continues shooting I don't feel like he's forcing it. With that said, there's certainly room for improvement. B

KG
Scoring numbers are down a bit, but continues shooting 50%+. As usual it's all about defensive intensity...one of those "if he's on your team you love it, if your team is playing against him he's a disrespectful punk" traits (talking to you Raptor Fans). B+

Perk
I could do without the constant techs, but Perk is growing as a player. Defense and rebounding will always be his game, but he's showing some touch around the basket, that only helps the C's. B+

TA
Getting back to his aggressive attack the rim style that made him such a promising youngster. Still too incinsistent, but he's getting there. His tough D is partially filling in for Posey. B

House
Still not my ideal backup PG, but when he does heat-up lookout. C+

Powe
Undersized big-man...great backup 4. B+

Baby
Not cutting in for me. D


Overall, the record may be similar to last year's, but I think the chemistry is better (particularly Ray) and the team just feels more solid to me.

[MikeVic]

I would love for KG on the Raps. They got Jermaine, but still feel so weak. :(

[Neuqua]

Juwon Howard is still playing in the NBA?!?!

[Groundhog]

Powe
Undersized big-man...great backup 4. B+

Baby
Not cutting in for me. D


I'm a big fan of Powe, but Glen Davis has been dissapointing to me every time I've seen the Celtics play. He had great touch around the basket at LSU which made up for his "ground bound" style of play, but every time I see him play for the Celtics he can't buy a basket.

I don't think being a little undersized for post players is a major issue as long as you have other tools to make up for it (length, strength, or athleticism), but Davis really doesn't have any of those things in enough abundance to make up for his shortfalls at this level.

[DaddyTorgo]

sublime - i'm sure you know this (saw the article) but word is that after the offseason surgeries the year before Ray Allen wasn't 100% healthy all year and was never able to get the same lift and pushoff with his legs that he was used to getting to it affected his shot all last year

[Sublime 2]

sublime - i'm sure you know this (saw the article) but word is that after the offseason surgeries the year before Ray Allen wasn't 100% healthy all year and was never able to get the same lift and pushoff with his legs that he was used to getting to it affected his shot all last year

I have read that a few times, and I really thought at first it was an excuse for a guy who was just over the hill. But it's obviously looking more and more like that was the case, which only spells more trouble for the rest of the league. Go C's!

[Sublime 2]

I'm a big fan of Powe, but Glen Davis has been dissapointing to me every time I've seen the Celtics play. He had great touch around the basket at LSU which made up for his "ground bound" style of play, but every time I see him play for the Celtics he can't buy a basket.

I don't think being a little undersized for post players is a major issue as long as you have other tools to make up for it (length, strength, or athleticism), but Davis really doesn't have any of those things in enough abundance to make up for his shortfalls at this level.

Dola

My hope really is that the time Baby has been getting is really just showcase Baby time. Glen seems to be a good locker room guy, but he has been frustrating to watch. I'm trying not to complain too much about the C's, but if there's a weakness it's backup center, no doubt! Here's hoping for Mutumbo, PJ Brown, or Mourning.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hawks come up short at home vs Celtics 88-85, Garnett put Boston up by two with 9.7 seconds left, Joe Johnson drives & draws a foul but misses a FT with 1.5 left after the rebound. Allen hits both FT's with 0.7 seconds left, Bibby's rainbow three clanks off the front rim just a little short.

Celtics streak now at 16.

[DaddyTorgo]

solid game by the Hawks though - they definately give the C's a run for their money

[larrymcg421]

Yeah, this Celts fan doesn't really want to see the Hawks in the playoffs this year.

[stevew]

Whomever gets homecourt out of the Celts or Cavs is gonna win the title this year. I think the Cavs do have a few good trade chips left so I think they can certainly make a few moves.

[LloydLungs]

Chris Paul sets the all-time NBA record for consecutive games with steals tonight, now at 106 games in a row. He beat Alvin Robertson's record from around 1986 or so. It's not quite Dimaggio-esque, but this is not an easy stat to have for 106 straight games. An amazing run.

[Atocep]

See Cleveland fans, Boozer was only looking our for his family.

ESPN - Utah Jazz's Carlos Boozer plans to opt out at end of season (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3777170)
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- It is time to stop guessing whether Carlos Boozer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) will opt out of the final season of his contract with the Utah Jazz (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=uth).

For the first time, Boozer said unequivocally Wednesday night that he will indeed opt out of his contract at the end of the season, foregoing a guaranteed $12.66 million to become an unrestricted free agent.

"I'm opting out. No matter what, I'm going to get a raise regardless," Boozer told ESPN.com. "I am going to opt out, I don't see why I wouldn't, I think it's a very good business decision for me and my family, but I'd also like to see what happens with the Jazz and stay here."

[Groundhog]

Paul Millsap has been pretty amazing for the Jazz - over the past 10 games Millsap is averaging 18.6pts 11.5rebs on .562 shooting - I'm not so sure that Boozer would be the highest of priorities, especially given his penchant for disappearing and going soft in the big games.

The real question is who wants to tie money up in Boozer, given that everyone seems to be waiting until 2010?

[whomario]

Just a bump because today has some really great matchups, highlighted of course by the Lakers and Celtics in LA. It´s not that often you have teams with a combined winning% of 88 meet 30 games into the year.

[MrBug708]

Good Christmas game for the Lakers

[DaddyTorgo]

Look, I think we learned one thing other than it's hard to beat a good team at home when they're getting every call -- when Kobe is the best guy on the floor, the Lakers win. He was brilliant Thursday. That's why the Lakers won. For whatever reason, he didn't do it in the Finals and that's why they lost. So basically, I learned nothing other than that my dad has a new nickname for Tony Allen: "The Heart Attack." And just an FYI: You can't get revenge for a 39-point loss in the deciding game of an NBA Finals by beating someone in a regular-season game at home. I am almost positive. Good win for the Lakers. I thought the Celtics played like shit frankly. The fact they didn't take it to the hole early and often and get free throws and get Lakers bigs in foul trouble in the first half was pretty much inexcusable. They were shooting shitty jump shots all night long - I'm frankly amazed the game was as close as it was.

[Karlifornia]

Shut the fuck up, Simmons.

[molson]

Geez, a crisp 45-point win for the Celtics over the Warriors gets them back on track, that's the same margin as that Knick game last year.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol they're going to be fine

GREEN 18!

[Buccaneer]

I know the NBA sucks very badly but seeing Lebron and the "crab dribble" makes me puke. How the fuck does a professional player think he should get away with taking (what looks like) 4 steps to the basket? I know one of the reasons cited for the repulsiveness of the NBA (the college game is still cool) is all of the traveling. Has it gotten this bad?

[Groundhog]

I know the NBA sucks very badly but seeing Lebron and the "crab dribble" makes me puke. How the fuck does a professional player think he should get away with taking (what looks like) 4 steps to the basket? I know one of the reasons cited for the repulsiveness of the NBA (the college game is still cool) is all of the traveling. Has it gotten this bad?

I've seen more travels called this season than I think I have in the past 2 or 3 seasons combined. Granted, they still get away with plenty more, but I think they are trying to cut down on the really obvious ones, anyhow.

[Atocep]

Speaking of Durant, a lot of people were hard on him last season (I was definitely one of them) but he played much better in the 2nd half offensively and looked like he could have huge season offensively this year. So far this season, he's shown zero improvement from last, though. The fact that he still isn't defending, shows no interest in rebounding, and doesnt have a clue how to pass has to be a concern.


Revisiting this, I don't get to watch him play anywhere near as much as I did last season but Scott Brooks moving him to SF seems to be what he needed. He's actually rebounding like someone his size should, he's shooting better, and getting to the free throw line a little bit more.

I don't think he's as athletic as he was made out to be coming out of Texas, but it looks like his upside is higher than I thought based off of his play at shooting guard.

[Atocep]

I know the NBA sucks very badly but seeing Lebron and the "crab dribble" makes me puke. How the fuck does a professional player think he should get away with taking (what looks like) 4 steps to the basket? I know one of the reasons cited for the repulsiveness of the NBA (the college game is still cool) is all of the traveling. Has it gotten this bad?

This isn't about traveling, but more about the NBA sucks comment (also not really directed at Bucc, just frustrated because I have friends here that say the same thing even though they haven't watched a game in at least 5 years).

I think the NBA is still being judged by the Pat Riley with the Knicks years. It may not be as entertaining as it was during the 80s when everyone just threw shots up as soon as they got past half court, but offenses today are actually more efficient than in the 80s and the pace is a lot faster than it was in the late 90s.

There's some great basketball being played now, but "the NBA sucks" is all a lot of people want to think.

[Groundhog]

Revisiting this, I don't get to watch him play anywhere near as much as I did last season but Scott Brooks moving him to SF seems to be what he needed. He's actually rebounding like someone his size should, he's shooting better, and getting to the free throw line a little bit more.

I don't think he's as athletic as he was made out to be coming out of Texas, but it looks like his upside is higher than I thought based off of his play at shooting guard.

And it wasn't at all surprising. Did anybody outside of the Sonics coaching staff think Durant would actually be an NBA SG? SF is clearly his position, rather than hanging on the perimeter exclusively.

[Chief Rum]

This isn't about traveling, but more about the NBA sucks comment (also not really directed at Bucc, just frustrated because I have friends here that say the same thing even though they haven't watched a game in at least 5 years).

I think the NBA is still being judged by the Pat Riley with the Knicks years. It may not be as entertaining as it was during the 80s when everyone just threw shots up as soon as they got past half court, but offenses today are actually more efficient than in the 80s and the pace is a lot faster than it was in the late 90s.

There's some great basketball being played now, but "the NBA sucks" is all a lot of people want to think.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Bucc's post yesterday. The NBA game today is actually a lot of fun and interesting, and I enjoy watching most any game now. It has improved tons from the thug game of the late 90s and earlier this decade.

[stevew]

But it's so much easier just to say it sucks. If they would just cut down the length of the contracts I think play would get even better.

[Groundhog]

Whenever I watch a game from the early 90s in particular I'm amazed at the disparity in athleticism between the very athletic guys (Jordan a prime example) and the other guys on the court. It's like he's three steps ahead of everybody. You just don't see that in today's NBA with everybody as athletic as they are.

[stevew]

JJ Hickson made some amazing athletic move the other night. It got me thinking about how the Cavs haven't had an athletic 4 since Larry Nance. I'm hoping JJ develops.

[Groundhog]

Me too. I wasn't happy at all when we drafted Hickson, but I've come around with the hints of potential we've seen from him so far.

[stevew]

Nobody watched the game last night?

[RainMaker]

I can't believe my Bulls are a game out of the 8th playoff spot. Would be nice to see them get in and give Rose a little playoff experience (even if it's a 4-0 sweep).

The Bulls need to dump Larry Hughes fast. I would also not be against moving Gordon too. The team really needs to build around Rose and those guys are stunting his growth. Sure they won't be as good without them, but this team isn't contending for anything. It's filled with too many guards playing for themselves. Del Negro is too pussy to bench Hughes because he knows he'll cry to the media.

[DaddyTorgo]

problem is you can't dump hughes - nobody wants him.

although this is the nba - i guess his massive contract gives him value when it gets close to expiring

[RainMaker]

problem is you can't dump hughes - nobody wants him.

although this is the nba - i guess his massive contract gives him value when it gets close to expiring

He's got one year left after this. It probably makes him valuable this coming offseason. The Bulls are going to refuse to add years or salary as they want to be in the running for Wade/Lebron/Bosh/etc in 2010. The problem is that he's such a cancer that it hurts Rose's development.

If I was the Bulls, the next time he mouths off to the media, I'd send him home. Sure it sucks to pay someone who isn't playing, but he is hurting the long term development of this team. Not just for Rose, but for guys like Sefolosha who the Bulls need to find out whether he can play.

[stevew]

The trade to dump Gooden and Hughes has been amazing for the Cavs. It's sad ill take a declining and overpaid Big Ben instead. Neither Hughes or gooden are "winning" players. They should be 8th or 9th men on a good team.

Delonte West also came over in the trade and has been a key contributor.

Hughes should be good to trade next year. The Bulls have a really bad mix of players. It's starting to look like Chandler Curry deja vu with the high picks they've missed on. Other than Rose

[Big Fo]

Orlando set an NBA record by making 23 three-point shots tonight, going 23 of 37. They won 139-107. I'm so impressed with their first half of the season, on pace for over 60 wins.

[MrBug708]

Good win for the Lakers and Kobe!

[Buccaneer]

This isn't about traveling, but more about the NBA sucks comment (also not really directed at Bucc, just frustrated because I have friends here that say the same thing even though they haven't watched a game in at least 5 years).

I think the NBA is still being judged by the Pat Riley with the Knicks years. It may not be as entertaining as it was during the 80s when everyone just threw shots up as soon as they got past half court, but offenses today are actually more efficient than in the 80s and the pace is a lot faster than it was in the late 90s.

There's some great basketball being played now, but "the NBA sucks" is all a lot of people want to think.

No, not being judged by the Riley years but by the rampant selfishness of play since the Be Like Mike days started, with a lot of showboating and "look at me" crap. Here's a good summary from our local Nuggets beat writer


DENVER • Carmelo Anthony is physically healthy. His fractured right hand is healed.

Here's what is more important:

Anthony is mentally healthy. Don't worry. I'm no psychoanalyst. I can only comment on his basketball state of mind.

And, on the court, he's thriving.

He has grown - and this has been a long time coming - into a team player. He's ready to carry his Denver Nuggets on a long ride in the NBA playoffs.

A snapshot from Friday's 110-99 victory over the Charlotte Bobcats revealed the new Anthony. He was driving through the lane when two defenders pounced on him.

The old Anthony would have lowered his shoulder, battled both defenders, forced a shot and angered his teammates.

The new, improved Anthony flipped the ball to Nene, who shook the rim with an uncontested dunk. It was a selfless play by a formerly selfish player.


Imo, there have been and still continues to be way too many players like the "old" Melo, and that what makes the NBA sucks.

[Karlifornia]

No, not being judged by the Riley years but by the rampant selfishness of play since the Be Like Mike days started, with a lot of showboating and "look at me" crap. Here's a good summary from our local Nuggets beat writer



Imo, there have been and still continues to be way too many players like the "old" Melo, and that what makes the NBA sucks.


Yeah, sounds like someone who...doesn't watch any NBA games.

[stevew]

Yeah if you watch a good team like the cavs, celts, magic, spurs lakers or a few others you really can enjoy the game a lot more.

The scheduling is still one of the biggest factors in why the league can suck at some points. Back to back games tend to be horrible. there are too many games as well.

[Chief Rum]

Sorry, Steve, I agree with these others. I don't get the feeling you have been watching too many games recently.

Not saying if you haven't and watch now, that you're not going to see the same thing, since, certainly, selfish players still exist.

But the game has really improved tons, IMO, in the past 3-4 years really. Not sure really what to pin it on.

[Buccaneer]

You're right of course. I have heard (esp. in previous year's threads) about how there have been some changes but I was surprised that "old Melo" had persisted that long, esp. being a star player and an All-Star. I guess there was a period where selfishness ruled the game and that's what many ex-fans remembered. Glad to see some indication that it may have been a bad thing?

[MrBug708]

Bynum out for 8-12 weeks with a torn MCL

[miami_fan]

It is almost time time to have the same concerns about Bynum's injury history that there are about Greg Oden's.

[Groundhog]

If anything, should be MORE concerned about Bynum at this point. His production (offensively, at least) of late had started to match the size of his contract, and now this. Again.

I have serious concerns about his ability as a defender, as well. DeAndre Jordan looked like a superstar the other night against Bynum, and he's not the first guy to have a career game against Bynum/Gasol this season.

[MrBug708]

It is almost time time to have the same concerns about Bynum's injury history that there are about Greg Oden's.

I dunno really, his seem to be more about things crashing into him or stepping onto a players foot

[kingfc22]

The Kings are losing 101-55 right now to the Suns...oh my...

[Crapshoot]

No, not being judged by the Riley years but by the rampant selfishness of play since the Be Like Mike days started, with a lot of showboating and "look at me" crap. Here's a good summary from our local Nuggets beat writer



Imo, there have been and still continues to be way too many players like the "old" Melo, and that what makes the NBA sucks.

I'm curious Bucc - do you sit and bitch about how things were better in the ol' days when "men were men"? Stop whining so much about guys having a good time.

[LloydLungs]

Chris Paul down with a groin injury. Hornets had a 72-55 lead on Portland at the time of his injury and get outscored 42-17 over the final 14 minutes. The Hornets aren't going to beat anyone with him out, which could be awhile, so I expect them to end up being the odd team out in this nine-team playoff scramble in the West.

[Groundhog]

First Kobe tears the Knicks a new A-Hole on their home court, and now LeBron has 18 points and the 1st quarter isn't over yet. Oh dear.

[Pumpy Tudors]

go grizzlies

there i said it

[Groundhog]

gtfo

having said that, OJ Mayo #1.

[Groundhog]

LeBron finishes up with 52 points and a triple-double.

In other news, the Golden State warriors have scored 17 points in three minutes to start the game against the Suns, and are up 17-2. With 9:15 remaining in the first.

[RainMaker]

Is anyone else sick over the fawning ESPN is giving Kobe and Lebron? The Knicks suck and don't play defense. It also didn't hurt that the refs were sending Lebron to the line everytime someone looked at him.

Both are great players, but this is news when they put those numbers up against the Celtics.

[Ramzavail]

Kobe got to the line alot as well.

[Chief Rum]

Is anyone else sick over the fawning ESPN is giving Kobe and Lebron? The Knicks suck and don't play defense. It also didn't hurt that the refs were sending Lebron to the line everytime someone looked at him.

Both are great players, but this is news when they put those numbers up against the Celtics.

Are you actually suggesting LeBron and Kobe are relatively mediocre players who pad their stats against weak teams? Just wanted to be sure.

[Neon_Chaos]

Is anyone else sick over the fawning ESPN is giving Kobe and Lebron? The Knicks suck and don't play defense. It also didn't hurt that the refs were sending Lebron to the line everytime someone looked at him.

Both are great players, but this is news when they put those numbers up against the Celtics.

61 points is still 61 points. And a 50+ point triple double is still a 50+ point triple double.

It was only icing in the cake that both happened in MSG.

[Young Drachma]

Apparently the Lakers traded Radmonovic to Charlotte for Adam Morrison. We'll see how "The Stasch" does playing for Showtime 2.0

[MrBug708]

I think they did it to sign Ariza to a deal and keep him around. That Walton deal is a bad deal still though.

[sterlingice]

I hadn't really seen Morrison until going to a Wizards game this year and, man, he should have stayed with that hair he had at Gonzaga.

SI

[Oilers9911]

Good God the Raptors suck. That is all.



----------------------------------------
Basketblogging - Hoops News and Opinion (http://www.basketblogging.com)
Basketball News and Opinion
From the Blogosphere

[MrBug708]

Hell of a road trip for the Lakers

[stevew]

Yeah. So Rum. You guys lookin good in preseason?

Just being a jackass. :)


And the injury bug is biting the Cavs hard it seems.

Would really like a 2 guard that won't get hurt for a change. Our top 3 are out.

[Groundhog]

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2779~2177~1966~3418~1987~990~383~1717~509~2782~739&teams=18~18~18~18~18~5~5~3~14~3~3&te=&cash=)

[miami_fan]

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2779~2177~1966~3418~1987~990~383~1717~509~2782~739&teams=18~18~18~18~18~5~5~3~14~3~3&te=&cash=)

Dat shit ain't funny!

[sterlingice]

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2779%7E2177%7E1966%7E3418%7E1987%7E990%7E383%7E1717%7E509%7E2782%7E739&teams=18%7E18%7E18%7E18%7E18%7E5%7E5%7E3%7E14%7E3%7E3&te=&cash=)

I could see David Stern making it happen. ;)

"Now, Memphis, you'd better trade Pau Gasol to the Lakers for spare parts"

SI

[sterlingice]

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090212)

SI

[larrymcg421]

Rondo 19 pts, 15 rebounds, 14 assists.

Unreal.

[JPhillips]

Rondo 19 pts, 15 rebounds, 14 assists.

Unreal.

He may be the most improved player over the course of the season. I saw his month by month assist numbers have climbed from just over 6 to just over ten this season. If he ever gets a jump shot he'll make it a Big Four.

[Sublime 2]

He may be the most improved player over the course of the season. I saw his month by month assist numbers have climbed from just over 6 to just over ten this season. If he ever gets a jump shot he'll make it a Big Four.

I'd say by the time that happens one of the current 3 will be gone or at the very least, far less "Big," Ray Allen being the most likely.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'd say by the time that happens one of the current 3 will be gone or at the very least, far less "Big," Ray Allen being the most likely.

stop demeaning jesus shuttlesworth!

In 2001, he was named honorary captain of the 25-member UConn All-Century Basketball Team!

NBA Champion: 2008
All-NBA Second Team: 2005
All-NBA Third Team: 2001
9-time NBA All-Star: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1997
NBA Joe Dumars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Dumars) NBA Sportsmanship Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sportsmanship_Award): 2003
The Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News) "Good Guy": 2000, 2001, 2005<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-raynbabio_21-3>[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Allen#cite_note-raynbabio-21)</SUP>
NBA All-Star Weekend Three-point Shootout champion: 2001
Holds NBA record for most three-point field goals made in a regular season with 269 in 2005-06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005-06_NBA_season)<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-22>[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Allen#cite_note-22)</SUP>
NBA regular season leader, three-point field goals attempted: 2006 (653)
NBA all-time career three-point field goals made (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_three-point_field_goals_made_in_National_Basketball_Association_history): 2nd with 2,213 (as of January 29, 2009)
Holds NBA record for most seasons leading the league in three-point field goals made with 3 (2001-02 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001-02_NBA_season) with 229, 2002-03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002-03_NBA_season) with 201, 2005-06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005-06_NBA_season) with 269)
Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 with Tracy Mcgrady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Mcgrady) (April 14, 2002 vs. the Charlotte Hornets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Hornets)).
Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in a single NBA Finals Game with 7 with Kenny Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Smith) and Scottie Pippen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Pippen) (June 17, 2008, in Game 6 of the 2008 NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_Finals))
Holds NBA record for most three-point field goals made in an NBA Finals series with 22 (2008 NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_Finals))
Holds Milwaukee Bucks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bucks) franchise records for most consecutive games played (400), most career three-point field goals made (1,051), and most career three-point field goals attempted (2,587).
Ranks 53rd all time on the NBA's scoring leader list trailing Dave Bing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bing) (as of April 16, 2008).
Member of the 2000 United States men's basketball team, which won gold at the Sydney Olympics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Summer_Olympics).

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL - don't mind me. I just loves me some Ray Allen.

[Young Drachma]

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090212)

SI

I'm not usually a fan of his, but I really enjoyed that column.

[sterlingice]

I'm not usually a fan of his, but I really enjoyed that column.

I like his NBA stuff but, again, it's hard to find him on the NBA

SI

[sterlingice]

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av9tyn_d9a.7tqsSBlaeb5a8vLYF?slug=ap-raptors-heattrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090212)

SI

I enjoyed the column as well.

Question: I admit I'm not a die-hard NBA fan, but Kobe at 6 - really? Gun to your head, it seems to me that he ought to be slightly higher than Duncan or Wade, though I recognize he's 30. Either way, tough call.

PS - Manu at 16? You're saying if a team could trade a 30-year old SG with bad knees for Chris Bosh or Carmelo Anthony, they wouldn't do it?

[MikeVic]

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av9tyn_d9a.7tqsSBlaeb5a8vLYF?slug=ap-raptors-heattrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

I like this for the Raps.

[Karlifornia]

NBADraft.net has Darren Collison slated as a late first round pick. Any non lottery team that picks him up will have a steal on their hands. Here's my top 10 as of right now:


1.Blake Griffin- Oklahoma
2.Brandon Jennings- Euroleague
3.Al-Farouq Aminu- Wake Forest
4.James Harden- Arizona State
5.Hasheem Thabeet- Connecticut
6.Demar DeRozan- USC
7.Jordan Hill- Arizona
8.Greg Monroe- Georgetown
9.Jeff Teague- Wake Forest
10.Stephen Curry- Davidson

[whomario]

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av9tyn_d9a.7tqsSBlaeb5a8vLYF?slug=ap-raptors-heattrade&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

Good Trade for the Raptors for once. Finally a halfway competent SF. Yeah, Marion also doesn´t create shots but at least he gives them a legit fastbreak option (provided Calderon learns how to run one ...) and also gives them the option to play him with either Bosh or Bargnani at the 5, especially with Bargnani might work well with Bargnani as a "set-defender" who boxes out and Marion roaming a bit defensively.
O´Neal really hindered Bargnani too, so that is another bonus in the "adition by subtraction" mold.

For the Heat it makes sense as well, it´s not like Marion was having a big role offensively and even if O´Neal is a shadow of his former self, he´s replacing an even more messed up Magloire and Joel Anthony ...

Other players involved are Jamario Moon and Marcus Banks, i guess both will play a role as well with Moon taking over partially for Marion (15-20 minutes) and Banks has the backup spot at the point up for grabs if i am not mistaken concerning Ukic/Salomon being rather shaky there.


as for Rondo : He´s really fun to watch, great young PG. The Jump Shot Part won´t work out though, he´s just not "build" to be a jumpshooter. But then again, he does everything else so great it won´t be that big of a problem as long as you don´t get a ball-needy scorer next to him (sounds strange seeing the Big 3, but neither of them nescesserily needs the ball much to be effective) .

[Atocep]

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=3&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all)

[Peregrine]

Yeah I was going to post that article too - just a really excellent read.

[sterlingice]

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=3&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all)

Just wanted to second this as an interesting read

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=3&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all)

+3

great read

[Chief Rum]

I was surprised to see Porter let go already, and then I read about some of the details of how his coaching style has been really bad there. Ouch.

Gentry's a decent guy, I remember from his Clips days, nice to see him get another shot, even as an interim.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I didn't quite "get" Simmons' trade value column at first. I had to go through the first 25 players before I even figured out what exactly he was ranking. I guess it's because he assumed that everyone had read the ones from previous years, which I had not done. Ugh.

[Sublime 2]

I didn't quite "get" Simmons' trade value column at first. I had to go through the first 25 players before I even figured out what exactly he was ranking. I guess it's because he assumed that everyone had read the ones from previous years, which I had not done. Ugh.

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.

[Groundhog]

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=3&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all)

Very good read, but I had no idea Battier was so under-rated?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.
Looking at it again, I read everything except the last rule which makes it fairly clear. If that rule had been first, I would've gotten it. Instead, I read the first three or four rules or whatever and didn't know what he was measuring, so I tried to figure it out on my own. Then I figured it out after reading up on 25 players. So I know it's my fault for not reading all the rules, but I suppose I just expected a little more explanation for a column that only gets written once a year.

[Anthony]

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.

"DOROTHY DICKTOOTH IS A SAINT!"

[sooner333]

Wow...looks like the Thunder didn't have to give up any of their five first rounders over the next two seasons to acquire Tyson Chandler. Just the rights to a second round pick from last season, and the expiring contracts of Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith.

[sterlingice]

Wow...looks like the Thunder didn't have to give up any of their five first rounders over the next two seasons to acquire Tyson Chandler. Just the rights to a second round pick from last season, and the expiring contracts of Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith.

That's another nice move by the Thunder. The success of their franchise in OKC will rest on what they do with these next two drafts- what they trade up for and draft and how they manage this young team.

SI

[Groundhog]

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.

2) PG-Westbrook-Durant-Green-Chandler. Who's the odd one out here? I say Green. He is a talented young player, but I don't think he's a PF, not of a winning team. If you can't get Blake Griffin (or maybe Monroe) in the draft, I'm trading Green and a draft pick or two and trying to get my hands on a bigman who can score and play D. With Chandler in the middle he doesn't need to be a big rebounder or shot blocker.

3) A scorer off the bench. Watson, Collison, and Kristic are all pretty good guys to have coming off the bench, but none of them are going to light up the opposition. It should be an easy task to acquire a scorer in the draft. Teague or Harden would fit the bill, but Harden likely won't be around when they pick if the Thunder keep winning games.

4) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE THUNDER DRAFT PROJECT BIGMEN! Stay the hell away from BJ Mullens and Jerome Jordan, if history is anything to go by.

I have to say though, the Thunder are beginning to look like they could be in a position to rebuild Trailblazers style.

[Karlifornia]

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.



While I agree with most of your points, I have to slightly disagree with this one:

Brandon Jennings | NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/brandon-jennings)

[sooner333]

I hear a lot about Rubio too, but don't really know much about his game (other than he looked cool in the Olympics). Is he a true PG type or is he more of the combo guard variety which we don't need as much?

Westbrook has adjusted well to the PG spot, but I agree, he's not a true PG. I would rather have him run point, however, then have him play SG because he doesn't have the range. While Durant and Green are adept at shooting 3's, the team is still low in the league in three's per game. They need someone who can fill it up from out there (but shouldn't overpay like NO did for Peja).

[Groundhog]

While I agree with most of your points, I have to slightly disagree with this one:

Brandon Jennings | NBADraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/brandon-jennings)

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

[muns]

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

totally agree with groundhog here. He doesnt look like much at at all at very moment

[Groundhog]

I hear a lot about Rubio too, but don't really know much about his game (other than he looked cool in the Olympics). Is he a true PG type or is he more of the combo guard variety which we don't need as much?


Rubio is definitely a PG, with a very strong handle and court vision. But I believe he is likely to be in the 2010 draft rather than 09 due to his current contract.

When I watch him play Euro ball he doesn't stand out like perhaps you'd expect a high lottery pick with his credentials to stand out, but he shows a few glimpses each game of the sort of moves he'd be able to provide far more frequently in the NBA-style game.

[muns]

NBADraft.net has Darren Collison slated as a late first round pick. Any non lottery team that picks him up will have a steal on their hands. Here's my top 10 as of right now:


1.Blake Griffin- Oklahoma
2.Brandon Jennings- Euroleague
3.Al-Farouq Aminu- Wake Forest
4.James Harden- Arizona State
5.Hasheem Thabeet- Connecticut
6.Demar DeRozan- USC
7.Jordan Hill- Arizona
8.Greg Monroe- Georgetown
9.Jeff Teague- Wake Forest
10.Stephen Curry- Davidson

Hasheem Thabeet is weak as hell. Honestly I dont think he is gonna last 2 years in the NBA.

[Groundhog]

Hasheem is better than Roy Hibbert, but I don't ever see his production matching the spot where he'll likely get drafted. With his size and pretty good physical tools he should be a far more consistently dominant player than he is. When he does dominate it has more to do with his size than his raw skills, and I don't think that translates well to the NBA.

If I had a top-10 pick in the draft, my wishlist would be in this order right now:

Blake Griffin
James Harden
Greg Monroe
Jeff Teague
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Jrue Holiday
Earl Clark
Stephen Curry
Tyreke Evans

[Karlifornia]

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

I'm not too worried about Jennings struggles in Italy. Things are a bit different over there. I really think he has the physical tools to be a Top-10 NBA PG. The question I have is whether he has held up mentally. I would still risk it if I needed a PG.

[sterlingice]

Can we agree that this looks like a pretty weak draft class?

SI

[MrBug708]

Westbrook will fill into the PG role, albeit not in the mold of a Chris Paul PG

[MrBug708]

Dola

Adding James Harden would be a great draft for the Thunder.

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Green
Chandler

That is a very good core of players

[Groundhog]

Can we agree that this looks like a pretty weak draft class?


I think at this stage, yes. Griffin and Harden are the only two guys that look to me like impact NBA guys early on.

[Karlifornia]

Aminu is going to be a beast, I think. Not when you add the "immediate impact" caveat, though.

[Groundhog]

For some reason I'm having real issues embedding this link, but if you're 6'7 and you want to know how to dominate a 7'3 guy, watch this:

YouTube - Blair Ownership of Thabeet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WASWhKKQfY)

[Crapshoot]

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.

2) PG-Westbrook-Durant-Green-Chandler. Who's the odd one out here? I say Green. He is a talented young player, but I don't think he's a PF, not of a winning team. If you can't get Blake Griffin (or maybe Monroe) in the draft, I'm trading Green and a draft pick or two and trying to get my hands on a bigman who can score and play D. With Chandler in the middle he doesn't need to be a big rebounder or shot blocker.

3) A scorer off the bench. Watson, Collison, and Kristic are all pretty good guys to have coming off the bench, but none of them are going to light up the opposition. It should be an easy task to acquire a scorer in the draft. Teague or Harden would fit the bill, but Harden likely won't be around when they pick if the Thunder keep winning games.

4) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE THUNDER DRAFT PROJECT BIGMEN! Stay the hell away from BJ Mullens and Jerome Jordan, if history is anything to go by.

I have to say though, the Thunder are beginning to look like they could be in a position to rebuild Trailblazers style.

I'd dispute 4) - when you have 5 first round picks in 2 years, why not take a shot or two at a prospect? Ideally, you'd package a couple of them to move up, but I don't think it works quite that way often in the NBA. I'm shocked they didn't have to throw in a lower-pick in this draft.

[Groundhog]

Outside the lottery, sure, go nuts with the projects, but I think they need to value their lottery picks more than that.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah. So Rum. You guys lookin good in preseason?

Just being a jackass. :)


And the injury bug is biting the Cavs hard it seems.

Would really like a 2 guard that won't get hurt for a change. Our top 3 are out.

Heh, missed this last week. ;)

Actually, no, we didn't have a good preseason. :p

BTW, boo hoo on your injury problems. I'm getting all weepy over here. Camby's out again. Kaman and Taylor are still out. Randolph is probably going to get suspended for trying to slap some Suns player tonight. And over the weekend, we managed to bring over yet another highly-rated but forgotten guard in Acker from Detroit. He join Jason Hart, Mardy Collins, Fred Jones and Steve Novak on our bench.

Thank God for Eric Gordon. At least he makes them watchable.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, so the Carter to the Rockets deals sounded interesting until this. Now the only one that makes sense for the Rockets if the TMac for Vince but there's no way I would do that if I were the Nets. As I told a co-worker at the beginning of the season, "Hey, at least you're not going to rely on hurt, hurt, and crazy to get the job done"

McGrady says he needs surgery, is out for year - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3914888)


McGrady says he will have surgery
ESPN.com news services

The season has been a major disappointment for Tracy McGrady and the Houston Rockets. It might have just gotten worse.

The forward told ESPN.com's Stephen A. Smith on Tuesday that his troublesome left knee will end his season and that he will undergo microfracture surgery.

McGrady's name had come up earlier Tuesday in reported trade discussions between the Rockets and New Jersey Nets. The Nets were leery of McGrady's contract and health in discussions involving Nets forward Vince Carter.

McGrady had arthroscopic surgery on the knee last May and has been slow to recover. The seven-time All-Star missed much of January trying to get the knee back in shape and had an MRI last week to try to discover why it was still bothering him.

"The last couple of games, I've regressed," McGrady said during halftime of last Wednesday's game. "I've felt pain."

McGrady's numbers are down across the board this season. He is the Rockets' third-leading scorer at 15.6 points per game and is averaging 4.4 rebounds and 5.0 assists per contest. He is shooting a career-worst 39 percent from the field.

After trading for Ron Artest in the offseason to create a triple threat with McGrady and Yao Ming, the Rockets were expected to challenge for one of the top spots in the Western Conference. But all three players have missed time due to injuries and Houston sits in fifth in the conference, with only two games separating them from the eighth and final spot.

Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire is an example of the tough road that comes with microfracture surgery. His procedure ultimately cost him all but three games of the 2005-06 season. He returned the next season, however, to play in 82 games and regained his All-Star form.

This is really starting to remind me of 97 or 98- whenever it was the Rockets had Olajuwon, Barkley, and Pippen and they couldn't stay healthy at all. But that was to be expected with 3 guys around 35 years old. There's no excuse for this.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

TMac is just fragile. It's too bad too, because he was an absolute physical freak. Looks like he's made of glass though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Word is Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni, Cedric Simmons, and Michael Ruffin to Sacramento for Brad Miller and John Salmons.