October 2008 Sales Numbers (RIP Sony's silver medal hopes) [Archive]

Big Fo

10-16-2008, 06:28 PM

Hardware: ....... Sept ..... (Aug).... Lifetime

Wii ................... 687.0K (453k) 12.6m
Nintendo DS ..... 536.8K (518k) 22.4m
Xbox 360 ......... 347.2K (192k) 11.2m
PSP .................. 238.1K (253k) 12.7m
PlayStation 3 .... 232.4K (185k) 5.5m
PlayStation 2 .... 173.5K (144k) 42.9m

Software:

360 STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED ........... 610K
WII WII FIT W/ BALANCE BOARD ......................... 518K
360 ROCK BAND 2 ....................... ..................... 363K
WII MARIO KART W/ WHEEL ............................... 353K
PS3 STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED .......... 325K
360 MERCENARIES 2: WORLD IN FLAMES ........... 297K
WII WII PLAY W/ REMOTE .................... .............. 243K
360 MADDEN NFL 09 ............... ............... .......... 224K
WII STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED ............ 223K
PS2 MADDEN NFL 09 ................ .............. ........... 158K

Others:

PC Spore ............ ............. 409k
PC Warhammer Online ....... 274k
360 Too Human ................. 34k
360 Tales of Vesperia .......... 37k
NDS Dragon Quest IV ......... 34k

Star Wars: FO = 1.42m units combined across all platforms
Lego: Batman = 544k units combined across all platforms

Lifetime sales:

Wii Play ................. 6.852.000
Mario Kart Wii .......... 3.086.000
Wii Fit ............. ........ 2.346.000
Smash Bros. Brawl .... >3.7m
Super Mario Galaxy .... 3.3m
Madden NFL 09 .. 1.224.000 (360 version)

"This is the first true monthly decline the industry has experienced since March of 2006. It's important to keep in mind, however, that this month's 7% decline is against a month (September 2007) that itself was up 75% from the prior September. Last year, Halo 3 released in September 2007 and that game had a huge impact on hardware and software sales."

"Overall, the health of the video games industry remains quite strong despite the rocky economic conditions. Tracking against typical industry seasonality, the U.S. video games industry is positioned to realize $22B or more in revenues for the year (does not include PC Games)."

Software

"A full 35% of last year's software sales came from one title: Halo 3. This year, the wealth is spread a bit more broadly as seven titles achieved sales of 250K units or more while last year only three hit that mark."

"A wide array of content found retail success from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, to Wii Fit, to LEGO Batman. Rock Band 2 achieved sales of over 360K units on just one platform and this title should continue to make its mark on the industry when the PS3, Wii and PS2 versions are released later this year."

"Although PC games sales are not included in these numbers, there were two that should be pointed out. Spore realized sales of 406K units and Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning sold 274K which would put them both in the top 10 list of combined console, portable and pc games sales for the month."

Hardware

"Hardware unit sales were flat versus last year so the decline in dollars is due to lower prices. The average retail price of hardware across all platforms declined 8% from last September."

"Compared to August, nearly all hardware systems realized an increase in unit sales in September. The price reduction on the Xbox 360 helped deliver a month-over-month unit sales increase for that platform of 78%. This increase, despite the acceleration of economic turmoil during the month of September, is solid indicator of the health of the industry heading into the holiday season."

Accessories

"Although down slightly in dollars, unit sales of accessory items increased slightly as compared to last year."

Unique Controls Put Wii at No. 1 for September NPD; Nintendo DS at No. 2

Backed by a variety of unique interfaces, Nintendo’s Wii™ console topped the U.S. video game hardware sales charts with nearly 687,000 units sold in September, according to the independent NPD Group, which tracks video game sales in the United States. Nintendo DS™ was the No. 2 best-selling system, with nearly 537,000 sold.

Wii enjoyed the biggest monthly unit sales increase with 234,000 more units sold in September than August. Wii also saw a year-over-year increase of more than 37 percent over September 2007.

Four games made for Nintendo systems placed in the top 10 best-selling games of the month, including Wii Fit™ at No. 2 with nearly 518,000 sold, Mario Kart™ Wii at No. 4 with more than 353,000 sold, Wii Play™ at No. 7 with nearly 243,000 sold and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed for Wii at No. 8 with more than 223,000 sold.

“The four Wii games in the top 10 all feature controls just not possible on other video game systems,” said Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo of America’s executive vice president of Sales & Marketing. “The Wii Balance Board and Wii Wheel give players new ways to interact with their games, while the Wii Remote controller transforms into a pool cue, table tennis paddle or lightsaber. Consumers have truly responded to this variety of entertainment options.”

PS3 Sales Setting the Stage for a Solid Holiday Season; Total PlayStation Sales Up 20 Percent Year-Over-Year
PlayStation 3 Hardware Unit Sales Top 232,408
PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) again experienced consistent momentum in September 2008, with 232,408 hardware units sold according to The NPD Group, an increase of over 94% year-over-year and an increase of more than 25% over the previous month. Additionally, software sales for PS3 experienced year-over-year growth of 130% with 1.72 million units sold.
Software sales are expected to continue their upward projection in October as SCEA kicks off the holiday season with the highly anticipated launches of LittleBigPlanet, SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Confrontation, MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, and NBA ’09: The Inside.
PlayStation®Network remained a popular destination with newly added games and entertainment content such as WipEout HD, Linger in Shadows and PAIN: Amusement Park. There are currently more than 12 million registered accounts worldwide and over 240 million pieces of content have been downloaded worldwide.
PSP also experienced strong sales, with 238,056 hardware units sold.
Fueled by enthusiasm for the limited-edition LEGO Batman: The Videogame PlayStation®2(PS2) Pack, PS2 generated solid sales in September, with 173,527 hardware units sold, 20% growth from last month. An impressive 42.9 million PS2s have been sold in the U.S. as of September 2008.

Power of the PlayStation Portfolio
The PlayStation brand experienced strong sales across all three platforms, earning $379 million in September.
Year-to-date (Jan-Sept), the PlayStation brand has generated $4.03 billion in revenue, representing an increase of 20% year-over-year.
PlayStation total hardware revenue was $160.5 million in September, representing a year-to-year growth of 11%.
PlayStation total software revenue in September was $180 million, representing a year-to-year growth of 17%.

CEO Perspective

“We remain confident that our footing is solid as we enter the holiday season this year. Our new 80GB PS3 model has made its way to retail shelves and into consumers’ living rooms as the best value for both their gaming and entertainment needs. If the impressive pre-sale numbers and ratings for LittleBigPlanet, SOCOM: Confrontation, and Resistance 2 are any indication, we anticipate hardware and software sales to continue to lift in October as we officially kick off the broadest and deepest software line-up this holiday, including LittleBigPlanet, SOCOM: Confrontation, MotorStorm: Pacific Rift and NBA ’09: The Inside.

- Jack Tretton, president and CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment America

347,000 Xbox 360 consoles sold in September following our U.S. price cut on Sept. 5 contributing to a U.S. install base of 11.3 million (September NPD data). Xbox 360 is now the most affordable next generation console on the market—$50 less than the Wii and half the price of the PlayStation 3.

Backed by September sales data, which showed $326 million in total consumer spend in the U.S. and a record software attach rate of 8.1 (September NPD data), we know Xbox 360 owners will continue to flex their buying power in the coming weeks when blockbusters like “Gears of War 2,” “Lips,” “Fable II,” “You’re in the Movies” and “Scene It? Box Office Smash” hit shelves.

Xbox 360 is the preferred stage for this holiday’s hottest music games

New music tracks for popular games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero extend every music experience so every party feels like a new party. Xbox LIVE has delivered more than 80% of the downloadable songs for music games, currently averaging 3.8 million music downloads per month. In total, Xbox 360 users have enjoyed more than 45 million music downloads. (Microsoft internal data)

In addition to leading the online music game market, Xbox 360 sells more copies of the world’s favorite music franchises. To date this generation, in the U.S., nearly 2 million copies of the Rock Band franchise have sold on the Xbox 360, almost 1 million more than the competition combined. Life-to-date sales of the Guitar Hero franchise on Xbox 360 top 4 million, securing more than 50% of franchise sales this generation (September NPD data).

“Rock Band 2” debuts exclusively on Xbox 360

· Since its U.S. launch on Sept. 14, “Rock Band 2” on the Xbox 360 sold 363,000 copies in September, making it September’s #3 selling game.

· This holiday, Xbox 360 will continue to sell more third-party games like “Rock Band 2” than the competition. In September alone, Xbox 360 generated $167 million in third party game sales.

Calling all shower singers, wanna-be rappers and pop princesses – “Lips” hits the stage in November

· “Lips” will have music fans singing their favorite tunes this holiday season as this totally new singing IP lands around the globe. “Lips” lets people sing the music they want with breakthrough wireless motion-sensitive microphones, backed by master tracks and original music videos. “Lips” hits in mid-November, exclusively for Xbox 360 from Microsoft and iNiS.

“Guitar Hero® World Tour” drops on Oct. 26 with a cooperative band experience, newly redesigned controllers and in-game Music Studio music creator

· “Guitar Hero World Tour” launches on Oct. 26. Xbox 360 gamers worldwide have early access to an R.E.M. track pack featuring three songs from the band’s new album, and Metallica’s highly anticipated full-length album, “Death Magnetic,” was offered to music fans around the world as downloadable content on Xbox LIVE in its entirety on the same day the record was released.

At the Tokyo Game Show last week we announced that the New Xbox Experience will launch worldwide on Nov. 19. For the first time in the history of the internet, 14 million consumers across 24 countries will all tune in at the same time to watch their Xbox 360 completely reinvent itself, for free, with the New Xbox Experience.

From the best music games and blockbuster titles, to LIVE Parties, photo sharing and access to a movie and TV show library 30,000 deep through the New Xbox Experience, Xbox 360 has something for everyone this holiday.

The XBox 360 price drop almost doubled monthly sales. But do keep in mind that this was a five-week month while August was a four-week month so a 25% increase across the board is natural.

Looks like Nintendo found some extra Wiis and Wii Fits this month, though it could just be the start of the holiday ramp-up.

Never underestimate the power of Star Wars to help sell a mediocre game.

Anyone that owns a DS but didn't buy Dragon Quest IV is a bad person.

wade moore

10-16-2008, 07:48 PM

This is a big impact than the PS3 pricecut had, right?

Big Fo

10-16-2008, 07:58 PM

PS3 sales had a jump of 209k to 406k from May to June. Metal Gear Solid 4 (and the MGS4 bundle) might have played a big role in this though. Although Rock Band 2 and Star Wars: Force Unleashed were big sellers this month I don't know if those are as big as MGS4 in terms of selling systems.

edit: Also, in June Wal-Mart had their $100 gift card if you buy any Blu-Ray player deal.

twothree

10-16-2008, 08:30 PM

Hardware: ....... Sept ..... (Aug).... Lifetime

PlayStation 2 .... 173.5K (144k) ?

An impressive 42.9 million PS2s have been sold in the U.S. as of September 2008.

Your Sony PR quote has a lifetime number for the PS2.

Big Fo

10-16-2008, 08:32 PM

Nicely spotted! (op edited)

twothree

10-16-2008, 08:42 PM

Anyone that owns a DS but didn't buy Dragon Quest IV is a bad person.

In my opinion, $40 is to much for a DS game. That is why I didn't buy DQ IV or any of the other DS Square-Enix games that have been released at that price point.

I will probably pick them up in a few years when they are cheaper.

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-17-2008, 06:55 AM

This easily had to be the most predictable month we've seen in awhile. Wii's aren't selling quite as well as the increase in stock has shown, so a slight decrease was expected. 360 gets a price cut, so we see a jump in sales for the first month of cheaper prices. PS3 doesn't change much at all with no big releases to boost sales. That doesn't appear to be changing much in the future either, due to Sony's continued comments that no price break is coming this fall. Looks like the chip set costs on the PS3 will be significantly reduced in early 2009 due to 45nm chips being introduced. I'm guessing that they're targeting that time period for a price cut, but that's only a guess.

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-17-2008, 06:56 AM

In my opinion, $40 is to much for a DS game. That is why I didn't buy DQ IV or any of the other DS Square-Enix games that have been released at that price point.

I will probably pick them up in a few years when they are cheaper.

I totally agree. There's absolutely no way that a DS game should cost over $30. $40 falls outside a level of comfort for most people who own a DS.

Eaglesfan27

10-17-2008, 07:04 AM

I'm still waiting for the Tsunami or whatever the Sony exec predicted when saying the PS3 would catch the 360 by the end of 2009.

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-17-2008, 07:21 AM

I'm still waiting for the Tsunami or whatever the Sony exec predicted when saying the PS3 would catch the 360 by the end of 2009.

A wave has to have a source to trigger its creation. Someone in Sony evidently has yet to realize that they are the ones who are the sole source of the creation of that tsunami.

Big Fo

10-17-2008, 07:43 AM

I'm still waiting for the Tsunami or whatever the Sony exec predicted when saying the PS3 would catch the 360 by the end of 2009.

Heck they've been outsold by the 360 in Japan for the fifth consecutive week which is just amazing considering their predecessors. All those JRPGs that Microsoft bought are bearing some fruit, or at least keeping them off the PS3 is hurting that console. As far as the US goes I think it's more about pricing than a lack of games people want because outside of a few games on either side both consoles have a very similar library.

Wii's aren't selling quite as well as the increase in stock has shown, so a slight decrease was expected.

Nearly 700k sold in September (the best September any console has had in US history and 150k more than the PS2's best September in 2002) and a 230k increase from August. I'm confused.

In my opinion, $40 is to much for a DS game. That is why I didn't buy DQ IV or any of the other DS Square-Enix games that have been released at that price point.

I will probably pick them up in a few years when they are cheaper.

I forgot about that point, a lot of people loathe the Square-Enix tax. For me I don't mind so much if the game is good, I get the same 30+ hours of fun as I do out of a good $60 PS3 game or $50 Wii game. On the bright side the fact that the games are released at $40 often means they get discounted sooner than normal $30-35 DS games.

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-17-2008, 07:53 AM

Heck they've been outsold by the 360 in Japan for the fifth consecutive week which is just amazing considering their predecessors. All those JRPGs that Microsoft bought are bearing some fruit, or at least keeping them off the PS3 is hurting that console. As far as the US goes I think it's more about pricing than a lack of games people want because outside of a few games on either side both consoles have a very similar library.

The problem with Japan right now is that it's just a lousy console market. The sales are brutally underwhelming over there. There will obviously be a very heavy surge in PS3 sales when FFXIII comes out over there as a PS3 exclusive, but Sony can't wait on that. Sony's only saving grace is that they're doing very well in Europe.

I agree that price is by far the biggest hinderance.

MJ4H

10-17-2008, 08:58 AM

Isn't DQ4 an RPG? I just don't like RPGs. I don't mind paying $40 for a good DS game, either.

TroyF

10-17-2008, 08:59 AM

I'm still waiting for the Tsunami or whatever the Sony exec predicted when saying the PS3 would catch the 360 by the end of 2009.

I'd left this thread for awhile and decided to come back and see what the numbers were now. What a surprise, the 360 still has a commanding lead on the PS3, it still has double the base of installed units in the US and the WII continues to slaughter them both worldwide.

I'm still not at all convinced Sony will ever catch MS in this generation and will go from dominance in the market to last in it.

gstelmack

10-17-2008, 09:18 AM

Your Sony PR quote has a lifetime number for the PS2.

Which in itself is telling...

gstelmack

10-17-2008, 12:12 PM

Sony's news gets even better:

Sony issues planet-wide LittleBigPlanet recall - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6199562.html)

Big Fo

10-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Sony's news gets even better:

Sony issues planet-wide LittleBigPlanet recall - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6199562.html)

Translations from the Arabic lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

'All that is on earth will perish'

So is this a disgruntled employee trying to sabotage Sony and Media Molecule from the inside, a strange stunt from Sony to increase awareness of their big fall release, or just an honest mistake? Crazy either way. (I bet it's the latter)

If anyone gets a copy with the Koran lyrics still in there it might be worth something as a collector's item one day.

edit: The game is only going to be delayed one week in the US. It will be out October 27.

Big Fo

10-18-2008, 10:42 AM

Top 20 for the month and top 10 per each console are out:

September 2008
Overall Top 20 Video Game Titles

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (360)
2. Wii Fit (Wii)
3. Rock Band 2 (360)
4. Mario Kart (Wii)
5. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (PS3)
6. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames (360)
7. Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii)
8. Madden NFL 09* (360)
9. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Wii)
10. Madden NFL 09* (PS2)
11. Madden NFL 09* (PS3)
12. Lego Batman (PS2)
13. Super Mario Sluggers (Wii)
14. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (PS2)
15. Kirby Superstar Ultra (NDS)
16. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames (PS3)
17. NHL 09 (360)
18. Lego Batman (Wii)
19. Lego Batman (360)
20. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway (360)

Breakdown:

360 - 7
Wii - 6
PS3 - 3
PS2 - 3
NDS -1

Top 10 Wii Titles

1. Wii Fit
2. Mario Kart
3. Wii Play w/ Remote
4. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
5. Super Mario Sluggers
6. Lego Batman
7. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
8. Madden NFL 09*
9. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
10. Rock Band

Top 10 (top 9?) Xbox 360 Titles

Something doesn't make sense. Since NHL 09 made the top 20 it should be #5 for the 360 in between Madden and Lego Batman. Maybe whoever posted this made an error.

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
2. Rock Band 2
3. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
4. Madden NFL 09*
(NHL 09)
5. Lego Batman
6. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway*
7. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*
8. Infinite Undiscovery
9. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09

Top 10 PS3 Titles

1. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
2. Madden NFL 09*
3. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
4. Lego Batman
5. NHL 09
6. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare*
7. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
9. Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway*
10. Silent Hill: Homecoming

Top 10 PS2 Titles

1. Madden NFL 09*
2. Lego Batman
3. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
4. Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
5. TNA Impact
6. God of War II
7. NCAA Football 09
8. Guitar Hero: Aerosmith*
9. WWE Smackdown vs. RAW 2008
10. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

Top 10 Nintendo DS Titles

1. Kirby Superstar Ultra
2. New Super Mario Bros.
3. Lego Batman
4. Mario Kart
5. Guitar Hero: On Tour
6. Spore Creatures
7. Mario Party
8. Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games
9. Mystery Case File: Millionheir
10. Imagine: Babyz

*Includes Collector's, Limited, Bundles editions.

The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (http://www.interactive.org/top-ten.php?id=32)

SackAttack

10-18-2008, 11:51 AM

Translations from the Arabic lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

'All that is on earth will perish'

So is this a disgruntled employee trying to sabotage Sony and Media Molecule from the inside, a strange stunt from Sony to increase awareness of their big fall release, or just an honest mistake? Crazy either way. (I bet it's the latter)

If anyone gets a copy with the Koran lyrics still in there it might be worth something as a collector's item one day.

edit: The game is only going to be delayed one week in the US. It will be out October 27.

A few games arrived back home just after I moved out here, and one of them is from Sony. In light of the last couple of days' events, I am, needless to say, curious which of the recent SCEA releases it is.

stevew

10-18-2008, 03:44 PM

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-20-2008, 07:53 AM

That's pretty silly that they are so afraid of muslims that they recalled the entire game. Meanwhile they have no problem with throwing pentagrams or upside down crosses in games. I guess those wouldn't be a kids title though.

Still, this a stupid recall.

Agreed. The world has become an over-sensitive society as a whole when this kind of thing provokes a recall on this scale.

With that said, it's only a 7 day delay, so no big effect from a release standpoint.

Mustang

10-23-2008, 11:33 AM

Not sure how the game will be, but the commercial for Resistance 2 made me want to go get a PS3...

(although, still planning on one by the end of the year)

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-28-2008, 07:28 AM

Huge release day. Several great multiplatform titles and 3 PS3 exclusives hit the shelves. The Nerf game has also been generating some hype.............

Xbox 360

Fallout 3
Guitar Hero World Tour
MotoGP 08
Scene It? Box Office Smash Bundle
High School Musical 3: Senior Year DANCE
Baja 1000: Score International

PS3

LittleBigPlanet
Fallout 3
Guitar Hero World Tour
SingStar Vol. 2
Motorstorm: Pacific Rift
Baja 1000: Score International
Moto GP ‘08

Wii

Guitar Hero World Tour
FIFA Soccer 09 All-Play
MySims Kingdom
Nerf N-Strike
Six Flags Fun Park
Twin Strike: Operation Thunder
TV Show King Party
Baja 1000: Score International
Hunt for Black Beard’s Booty
Ben 10: Alien Force
Monster Jam: Urban Assault
Ultimate I Spy

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-28-2008, 07:40 AM

Some info about the new feaatures on the Xbox Experience coming next year.......

5 reasons hardcore gamers will love the New Xbox Experience | GamesRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/5-reasons-hardcore-gamers-will-love-the-new-xbox-experience/a-20081027102236671049)

Great deal at Amazon for those looking for a PS3. $100 rebate on a PS3 when you buy 4 Blu-ray movies. Not only that, but the Sony Style credit card deal can be stacked with this deal ($150 off a PS3 when you purchase it with the Sony Style card). So, you can get an 80 GB PS3 with 4 BR movies for roughly $230-250 total depending on which movies you buy.

Save $100 When You Buy a Blu-ray Player and Four Warner Blu-ray Discs Together (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&ref_=amb_link_7767122_2&docId=1000279241&tag=bluraynews-20)

Interesting numbers coming out in the latest financial reports that mirror the 3rd party sales trend that EA has shown in earlier financial statements. Namco, Konami, Ubisoft and EA are all reporting in the 3rd quarter that worldwide software sales on the PS3 are 33-70% higher than the Xbox 360, despite the fact that the 360 has a 5 million unit lead in installed hardware base.

EA

In our previous story, we talked about how the PS3 is EA’s new bread-winner in terms of bringing home the bacon. According to EA’s previous financial statement, the PS3 accounted for about 17% of total revenue in comparison to the Xbox 360’s 10%. That is quite significant when considering that EA is the largest third party video game publisher in the world.

Namco Bandi

Namco Bandi is the largest third party publisher in Japan. According to the publisher’s recent financial statement, the PS3 currently moved approximately 57% more software than it’s direct competitor, the Xbox 360. Namco Bandi is sort of the EA of Japan, considering the amount of revenue it generates from software.

Konami

Konami is one of the top three publishers in Japan in terms of revenue. With the recent release of Metal Gear Solid 4, it is not all that surprising that the PS3 would have a larger piece of the pie. However, according to Konami’s recent financial statements, the PS3 accounted for a whopping 57.3% of the sales this past quarter, while the Xbox 360 accounted for only 2.6%. This changed from last year, when the Xbox 360 brought in more sales compared to the PS3.

UbiSoft

UbiSoft is considered to be one of the top three publishers in all of Europe. According to UbiSoft’s half year financial report (6 months 2008/09), the PS3 accounted for about 20% of the software sales compared to the Xbox 360’s 14%. Considering UbiSoft’s presence in Europe, this is quite a significant turn of event.

Analysis: PS3 selling more games than Xbox 360 with smaller install base - GAMER.BLORGE (http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/10/26/analysis-ps3-selling-more-games-than-xbox-360-with-smaller-install-base/)

Neon_Chaos

10-28-2008, 07:48 AM

Managed to join a live auction and bought a PS3 for about $200.

Woohoo.

Only thing missing in my gameroom now is a Wii.

Big Fo

10-30-2008, 03:14 AM

Icy

10-30-2008, 04:17 AM

On a related note to Mizzou post, one thing that i think is helping the PS3 support by software companies is that after over a year, the PS3 is still the only console that has not been pirated, while you can run pirated games in every other console in the market.

At least in Spain, everybody wants a PS3 but people is buying 360's because are cheaper and because you can run pirated games on them. At 60€ per game (around $80), just getting 3 or 4 pirated games makes the 360 purchase price equal to zero.

It's weird how being un-pirateable is helping the Ps3 in this generation to get support by games companies, when being easy to run pirated games was probably one of the big reasons of the sales of the PS2 and it's now helping the 360 sales. I'm talking specially about Europe were piracy is way more common than in USA (20% rate), lead by Italy, Greece, France and Spain with over 50% rate of pirated software vs original as reported by the BSA. (pirated software numbers in the world http://www.bsa.org/upload/idc-findings_summary.pdf )

Eaglesfan27

10-30-2008, 07:21 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-30-2008, 07:26 AM

Sony's game division lost over 400 million for the last 3 months and Sony's overall profits and operating income are way down. I guess that is why no price cut is coming:

PS3 sales near 17M as Sony profits sink - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200208.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;2)

Interestingly enough, they would have actually lost more with a price cut. You know you're in a catch-22 position when selling more units increases your losses. :)

Another interesting statistic from the last quarter is that the PS3 did outsell the 360 worldwide. Note that quarter included the September numbers boost due to the slashing of Xbox 360 sales. Microsoft has got to be discouraged that a price cut of that magnitude still didn't allow them to win the quarter.

The holiday season will be interesting to watch.

cartman

10-30-2008, 10:46 AM

Interestingly enough, they would have actually lost more with a price cut.

Really? Charge less for something that it costs you to make and you'd lose more money? How can that be considered interesting? That is Economics 101.

Another interesting statistic from the last quarter is that the PS3 did outsell the 360 worldwide. Note that quarter included the September numbers boost due to the slashing of Xbox 360 sales. Microsoft has got to be discouraged that a price cut of that magnitude still didn't allow them to win the quarter.

Microsoft erased almost the entire sales deficit for the quarter in the last month of the quarter. How on earth can that be considered discouraging?

gstelmack

10-30-2008, 10:54 AM

Microsoft erased almost the entire sales deficit for the quarter in the last month of the quarter. How on earth can that be considered discouraging?

So MBBF, how's that "catch Microsoft in total sales by 2009 end" prediction coming?

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-30-2008, 10:55 AM

Microsoft erased almost the entire sales deficit for the quarter in the last month of the quarter. How on earth can that be considered discouraging?

1. The sales in the first two months were miserable.

2. They used their silver bullet against a console that is roughly double the price of its competitor and still broke even for the quarter. That's very concerning. A console at their price point should be beating the higher priced competitor by a much bigger margin.

The PS3 is a relative lame-duck at this price point. This should be the prime sales point in the Xbox 360's lifecycle. It's not turning out that way at all.

PurdueBrad

10-30-2008, 11:02 AM

1. The sales in the first two months were miserable.

2. They used their silver bullet against a console that is roughly double the price of its competitor and still broke even for the quarter. That's very concerning. A console at their price point should be beating the higher priced competitor by a much bigger margin.

The PS3 is a relative lame-duck at this price point. This should be the prime sales point in the Xbox 360's lifecycle. It's not turning out that way at all.

I usually avoid this but I've got to say, you seem to be arguing both sides of this.

IF the sales were so "miserable" than the fact that they made up that ground in the third month would be quite the opposite of discouraging but could actually signal a good trend (kind of like the first month when PS3 outsold the 360 and you touted it as encouraging) and quite an accomplishment.

OR on the flip side, the sales were miserable and yet they were able to make up the defecit means that PS3's sales were also quite miserable and it is basically a dead stick right now.

Fidatelo

10-30-2008, 11:23 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-30-2008, 11:42 AM

Arguing with MBBF is like fighting a punching bag. The bag acts nothing like a normal opponent, doesn't have any real substance behind it, you can land devastating blows with relative ease, and yet it will always win, because eventually you will get tired and walk away.

Ironic that you would make a post like this with little relevance to the discussion and then complain about a lack of substance in the discussion.

I don't believe that staying even with a PS3 that is at a high price point and not selling well is on the top of Microsoft's goals, but maybe someone has some information saying something otherwise.

Fidatelo

10-30-2008, 11:49 AM

Ironic that you would make a post like this with little relevance to the discussion and then complain about a lack of substance in the discussion.

There is nothing ironic about it at all. I refuse to bother trying to have a substantive discussion with you involved at this point because it is pointless, as described in my post above. I'd put you on ignore except that people tend to quote your inane offerings so often that it becomes pointless, and also that you flood the threads you are interested in so badly that every second post becomes hidden and I can't follow what is going on anymore.

Frankly at this point I'm just going to spend my energy highlighting the pointlessness to others in a hope that more people will stop feeding you.

Big Fo

10-30-2008, 11:51 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

10-30-2008, 12:29 PM

Coming into this generation Microsoft would have been delighted to be matching the PS3's sales but you're probably right, with all the problems Sony has had they are probably thinking a bit more ambitiously at this point.

Exactly. I don't think the PS3 bar is the one that Microsoft is shooting for at this point. At least they shouldn't be.

Big Fo

11-02-2008, 11:19 AM

Nintendo's latest financial results are out and with them are new lifetime worldwide totals:

Wii - 34.55m
DS - 84.33m

With the DSi about to launch in Japan and coming to the West next year, it just might pass the PS2 (which is around 130m iirc) in a few years.

Nintendo Consolidated Financial Highlights (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2008/081030e.pdf)

Some lifetime totals for first-party software (worldwide):

Wii:

Wii Sports - 30.87m (bundled everywhere except Japan remember)
Wii Play - 16.15m
Mario Kart Wii - 9.53m
Wii Fit - 8.76m
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 7.47m
Link's Crossbow Training - 2.75m

DS:

Nintendogs - 20.03m
New Super Mario Bros. - 15.89m
Brain Age - 14.48m
Mario Kart DS - 12.12m
Brain Age 2 - 12.03m
Mario Party DS - 4.73m
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time/Darkness - 4.12m
Pokémon Platinum - 1.56m

Awesome sales for Mario Kart in just six or seven months which is nice to see, it's such a good game. I would like to have seen updated Super Mario Galaxy numbers.

sterlingice

11-02-2008, 01:04 PM

The Wii Fit numbers jump out at me, too- that's sick

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-04-2008, 06:50 AM

BIG release day today. Gears of War 2 and Resistance 2 hit the shelves along with 2 other PS3 exclusives. Crazy good games to be had. Get those trade-ins ready!

BrianD

11-04-2008, 08:11 AM

I'm about to do my part to help Microsoft win the console war. After a long time being on the fence and not sure if I needed a new console, I'm going to be getting a 360 for my birthday this year. The actual purchase will be made sometime in the next few days.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-10-2008, 08:40 AM

Saw that the 40 GB bundles at Toys R Us have all been discounted to $299. It's in-store only, but probably worth a quick drive-by for those looking for a cheap PS3 deal.

Neon_Chaos

11-12-2008, 03:49 AM

Xbox Live: Microsoft Swings Xbox Live Banhammer, Thousands Fall (http://kotaku.com/5083456/microsoft-swings-xbox-live-banhammer-thousands-fall)

Great timing by M$. Expect all those banned users to flood the market and boost XBOX360 sales for the holiday.!

Kodos

11-12-2008, 08:37 AM

Yep. Screw those guys.

gstelmack

11-12-2008, 08:40 AM

Good for Microsoft. It also helps keep cheating away by making sure folks are playing legitimate rather than hacked copies. It's one reason I pay my $50/year for the service.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 08:46 AM

Good for Microsoft. It also helps keep cheating away by making sure folks are playing legitimate rather than hacked copies. It's one reason I pay my $50/year for the service.

You should expect that kind of service for no cost. You may be paying for certain services that you enjoy such as matchmaking, but you're certainly not paying to keep other people from playing pirated games. That's Microsoft's job. Kudos to them for whacking those accounts.

Surprisingly, Sony has managed to keep the pirates from hacking the PS3. Not sure what they've done to make it difficult, but it seems to be working. The PSP on the other hand.........

BrianD

11-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Surprisingly, Sony has managed to keep the pirates from hacking the PS3. Not sure what they've done to make it difficult, but it seems to be working. The PSP on the other hand.........

This is surprising. I'm wondering how long this will be the case. On a side note, what do you think this fact does to hardware sales? I have to believe they would sell more units if people could hack them. Of course software sales would go down, but is it possible that hackability would lead to a net gain?

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:06 AM

This is surprising. I'm wondering how long this will be the case. On a side note, what do you think this fact does to hardware sales? I have to believe they would sell more units if people could hack them. Of course software sales would go down, but is it possible that hackability would lead to a net gain?

I think I'd probably agree. The PSP continues to be a very popular handheld and I think the home-brewed firmware only furthers those sales. I haven't played a pirated copy of a game in some time, but I remember when I was young and had an Apple II GS. I'd copy games from friends all the time and it was great to have free games. I can definitely see the attraction, though I don't pirate anymore as I see the downside now that I'm older.

Big Fo

11-12-2008, 09:09 AM

I think it costs too much to burn Blu-Ray discs at this point and that's the reason pirates have yet to embrace the PS3 like they have most other consoles past and present.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:15 AM

I think it costs too much to burn Blu-Ray discs at this point and that's the reason pirates have yet to embrace the PS3 like they have most other consoles past and present.

I'm sure that's not the case. You can buy a Blu-ray burner for $80 or less now. The discs can be found in quantity at a very cheap price. If there was a home-brew firmware available on the PS3 to actually read those discs, you can be sure those fraudulent copies would be pouring out into the market.

Big Fo

11-12-2008, 09:21 AM

I thought each Blu-Ray writable was like $10-20, far higher than DVDs. Maybe it has come down recently.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:27 AM

I thought each Blu-Ray writable was like $10-20, far higher than DVDs. Maybe it has come down recently.

In internet retail sites, you can pick them up for around $13-15. Wholesale, you can get them for less than $10 if you buy in bulk. But even if they buy for $10 and sell a 'new' game for $25-30, they're making one hell of a profit. But at this point, there's no market due to the PS3 security

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 09:28 AM

I'm sure that's not the case. You can buy a Blu-ray burner for $80 or less now. The discs can be found in quantity at a very cheap price. If there was a home-brew firmware available on the PS3 to actually read those discs, you can be sure those fraudulent copies would be pouring out into the market.

Cheapest Blu Ray burner on newegg is $225 and the range in price up to $400.
Newegg.com - Blu-Ray Burners, CD / DVD Burners & Media (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000100600&bop=And&Order=PRICE&SpeTabStoreType=0)

Cheapest price on newegg for BD media is $6-7/disc (25 for $170).
Newegg.com - BD-R(Blu-ray) DL, BD-RE(Blu-ray), BD-R(Blu-ray), CD / DVD Media, CD / DVD Burners & Media, Computer Hardware (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=71&Description=&Type=&N=2010100071&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A22108&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A44985&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A23444)

Where are you getting your numbers?

spleen1015

11-12-2008, 09:31 AM

Cheapest Blu Ray burner on newegg is $225 and the range in price up to $400.
Newegg.com - Blu-Ray Burners, CD / DVD Burners & Media (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000100600&bop=And&Order=PRICE&SpeTabStoreType=0)

Cheapest price on newegg for BD media is $6-7/disc (25 for $170).
Newegg.com - BD-R(Blu-ray) DL, BD-RE(Blu-ray), BD-R(Blu-ray), CD / DVD Media, CD / DVD Burners & Media, Computer Hardware (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=71&Description=&Type=&N=2010100071&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A22108&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A44985&PropertyCodeValue=874%3A23444)

Where are you getting your numbers?

The same place he gets everything else.

:D I couldn't resist.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:33 AM

Cheapest Blu Ray burner on newegg is $225 and the range in price up to $400.

Cheapest price on newegg for BD media is $6-7/disc (25 for $170).

Where are you getting your numbers?

They're expecting burners to be available for $80-100 by the end of this holiday season. The word in the Blu-ray market right now is that some of the BR hardware companies are not going to release their product because the expected price points in the coming months won't be high enough to meet their profitable price point. Bad for them, but good for consumers.

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 09:35 AM

They're expecting burners to be available for $80-100 by the end of this holiday season. The word in the Blu-ray market right now is that some of the BR hardware companies are not going to release their product because the expected price points in the coming months won't be high enough to meet their profitable price point. Bad for them, but good for consumers.

You can buy a Blu-ray burner for $80 or less now.
So basically now doesn't mean the same thing for you as it does everyone else? :)

Also how does the cheapness of making duplicates in the future have any relevance to the argument of why duplicates haven't existed in the past or present?

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 09:37 AM

Personally I agree with Big Fo. Once BR burners gets to less than $100 and media falls to the $1-2 range all the copy protection stuff will quickly be figured out and we'll have stuff like DVDShrink for Blu-ray and pirated PS3 games.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:39 AM

Also how does the cheapness of making duplicates in the future have any relevance to the argument of why duplicates haven't existed in the past or present?

Nothing, other than Big Fo saying that the cost of the disc is cost-prohibitive, which it is not. There's plenty of profit to be had if the firmware existed, but it does not. I'm thankful that it does not.

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 09:50 AM

BrianD

11-12-2008, 09:53 AM

For the home burners the entry costs are prohibitive. They would have to burn six or seven games at today's prices (or significantly more at six months ago prices!) to break even over paying full retail for games. I'm not sure there are enough good PS3 games yet to justify that for many people.

I'm not sure those that burn games are interested in how good the games are. Since they are probably burning just about everything they can find, I'd be surprised if many games got a full play.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 09:55 AM

Seems like you're focusing on the industrial pirates and ignoring the home pirates who rent and burn and borrow and burn. Personally, I don't know anyone who purchases pirated games, but I know a ton of people who burn their own.

For the home burners the entry costs are prohibitive. They would have to burn six or seven games at today's prices (or significantly more at six months ago prices!) to break even over paying full retail for games. I'm not sure there are enough good PS3 games yet to justify that for many people.

I agree with most of that. I am referring to the industry pirates. You have to remember that the PS3 and Xbox 360 are two different beasts in that regard. The PS3 is not region locked, so the industry pirates are a much bigger concern for Sony. If the security gets broken, they lose a ton of money in Europe and Asia on games sales.

If you're talking about home pirates, then Fo and your comments make much more sense. I don't agree with the 'good PS3 games' comment as a person who home-burns games will burn lots of games regardless.

Big Fo

11-12-2008, 09:56 AM

Yeah as Daimyo says I was talking in terms of individual pirates who download and burn their own games. What's the point of spending that much when you're partaking in that illegal solely to get games as cheap as possible.

Also the XBox 360 has 90%+ of the games that PS3 does so maybe a lot of people that would pirate those games already have modded 360s.

BrianD

11-12-2008, 10:10 AM

Also the XBox 360 has 90%+ of the games that PS3 does so maybe a lot of people that would pirate those games already have modded 360s.

This is why I was wondering if the PS3's hackability status is what will keep it below the 360 in hardware sales. If you are going to burn games anyway, the 360 is an easy choice for a console. Heck, I've even heard of people buying 2 360s so they can play burned single player games in one and purchased multiplayer games in the other non-modded console.

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 10:45 AM

I don't agree with the 'good PS3 games' comment as a person who home-burns games will burn lots of games regardless.
Sure, once they're all setup they will burn a lot of crap. However, to get setup with BR you're looking at close to $300. You better have at least six games you want to play to justify that expense. With DVDs you need less than $30 to get started... if there is even one game you want to play you can justify the investment!

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Sure, once they're all setup they will burn a lot of crap. However, to get setup with BR you're looking at close to $300. You better have at least six games you want to play to justify that expense. With DVDs you need less than $30 to get started... if there is even one game you want to play you can justify the investment!

Yes, but your scenario does not include BR movies in the equation. You could burn out a pretty nice library of HD movies with that same drive (once again assuming the firmware were available).

Daimyo

11-12-2008, 11:15 AM

People who burn DVDs have already decided said they're okay with sub-DVD quality because they almost always have to compress the video to fit on a SL DVD. I'm sure they'll embrace BR eventually, but I don't see them leading the charge.

Neon_Chaos

11-12-2008, 12:30 PM

I live in the Philippines, and, well, we're probably the game piracy capital of the world. Heh.

The word on the vendors is that the only reason that pirated PS3 games do not exist is because pirated bluray movies aren't available yet.

Once the bluray movies start getting pirated, then the games will come soon.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 12:53 PM

The word on the vendors is that the only reason that pirated PS3 games do not exist is because pirated bluray movies aren't available yet.

Correct. They don't exist at this point because no one has been able to break the security measures on Blu-ray discs (i.e. there are no home-brew updates to PS3's or BR players to allow the machines to read pirated copies of the games/movies). The problem is that until they break through the security, those pirated discs are all but worthless because they aren't encoded properly to play on the official firmware..

Cringer

11-12-2008, 01:57 PM

I have had my 360 for years now, though not exactly a fan-boy by any means. It was out before the PS3, cheaper, and had way better games even a year after the PS3 was out.

With that said, I do love having a PS3 now to go along with it. (And the Wii which is the daughter's #1 by far). Why I love the PS3? It made certain things easier for me then the 360 ever did.

Built in wireless? Love it. Lets face it, after all this time I probably won't hook up my 360 to the internet because I am not buying a $100 wireless adapter and I am not real big on the idea of running 30 feet or so of cat5 cable across the house. I will be able to do some online play for the first time if I ever want to. I can access my laptop music and crap on the TV, which is nice to have finally. Plus the online stuff is free, nice for a guy who is cheap with things like that.

Blu-ray will be great. My $10 (with shipping) HDMI cable should be here in a day or so and then I will watch my first blu-ray movie on it.

I realize that I still love the PS controller and how it feels in my hands.

The end all, be all of game systems? Nope. But I think it is worth the price of it now that I have used one.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-12-2008, 02:08 PM

FYI.....Family Video website has some good deals on recently released games. Fable II and Gears of War are both $49.99 shipped. Resistance 2 is $52.99 shipped. Check techbargains.com for the coupon codes.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-13-2008, 11:08 AM

Alright, for those that complain that Wii's aren't ever available, here's your chance. Nintendo shipped a monsterous shipment of Wii's this week and virtually everywhere has them in stock today. Here's the Amazon link for a start.........

Amazon.com: Wii: Video Games (http://www.amazon.com/Wii-nintendo/dp/B0009VXBAQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1226595963&sr=8-1)

Big Fo

11-13-2008, 01:14 PM

Patcher has said October's numbers (coming out tonight) will be even more huge than normal for Nintendo, maybe pushing 800k. The Wii selling 519k last October is the record for the month.

Cringer

11-13-2008, 03:57 PM

Does anyone know if there is a wire that goes from HMDI to DVI, and is so can you use that with a PS3? It seems my 4+ year old HD TV doesn't have HDMI, but DVI. No, I have never actually checked until now. :D

I would like my PS3 using something better then RCA wires for crying out loud, and my two component inputs are already in use.

Going to have to get a new TV within a year or so anyways I think, but it won't be soon.

Big Fo

11-13-2008, 07:19 PM

October numbers and top ten are out.

Hardware: ....... October ..... (Sept).... Lifetime

Wii ................... 803K .... (687.0K) ... 13.4m
Nintendo DS ..... 491K .... (536.8K) ... 22.9m
Xbox 360 ......... 371K .... (347.2K) ... 11.6m
PSP .................. 193K .... (238.1K) ... 12.2m
PlayStation 3 .... 190K .... (232.4K) ... 5.7m
PlayStation 2 .... 136K .... (173.5K) ... 43.0m

Software:

360 FABLE II ...................................................... 790K
WII FIT W/ BALANCE BOARD ................................ 487K
360 FALLOUT 3 ................................................... 375K
WII MARIO KART W/ WHEEL ..................................... 290K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE ........................................... 282K
360 SAINTS ROW 2 ................................................ 270K
PS3 SOCOM: U.S. NAVY SEALS CONFRONTATION ... 231K
PS3 LITTLE BIG PLANET ......................................... 215K
360 NBA 2K9 ........................................................ 202K
360 DEAD SPACE .................................................. 193K

Looks like Sony might take a whoopin' this holiday season. They need a price drop badly but can't afford it.

Wii sales are through the roof again.

LittleBigPlanet sold pretty well in only a few days. Same goes for the 360 version of Fallout 3. I'd like to know how much the PS3 and PC versions sold.

Great sales for Fable II.

Guitar Hero: World Tour and Rock Band 2 didn't chart. Are people sick of the fad, don't feel like buying all those plastic instruments in this economy, or have the sequels been released too close to the previous versions? Wii Music didn't make the charts either.

Voo

11-13-2008, 07:42 PM

wade moore

11-13-2008, 07:52 PM

Ok, a little message board ettiquette here..

Why are we changing the thread title of the September sales and posting October numbers rather than starting a new thread?

SirFozzie

11-13-2008, 07:55 PM

Big Fo

11-13-2008, 08:13 PM

Ok, a little message board ettiquette here..

Why are we changing the thread title of the September sales and posting October numbers rather than starting a new thread?

Last month's thread was only a page and a half long and a decent portion of those posts occurred in the last day or two, I figured why not just keep this thread going?

Big Fo

11-13-2008, 08:16 PM

Wow. No version of GHWT broke 200K. The RB2 PS3 version isn't so surprising.. (PS3 smaller install base etcetera), but I'm sure that no version of GHWT breaking 200K is a shock. I joke about ActiBlizzard killing the Goose that laid the Golden Eggs, but that might have happened.

The one thing that might make the thread subtitle a little too sensationalistic is that you have the 360 version full bundle/guitar+game/game only and all the other systems. I don't know if they are all counted together or separately...

SirFozzie

11-13-2008, 08:17 PM

all versions lumped together on one platform

Big Fo

11-13-2008, 09:43 PM

Wii Music: 81k

And from a gamedaily.com article (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-wii-fable-ii-fuel-sales-of-131-billion-in-october-for-us-game-industry/?biz=1&page=1) here's some info on the other music games:

BIZ: There are no Guitar Hero or Rock Band SKUs in the top 10. How did these fare? Is the higher pricing on these games finally becoming an issue for the publishers?

Frazier: Given how well GH3 did at launch last year, there was bound to be some extra scrutiny on these new releases. While not living up to last year's launch, Guitar Hero World Tour sold a very strong 534K units at an average retail price of $126. Not shabby! And Rock Band 2 has sold 600K since its release so I'd say the genre is holding up quite well. These will make great gift-giving items over the next two months as well.

BIZ: Thanks Anita.

So music games are alive and well it seems, even if they aren't at GH3 levels.

stevew

11-13-2008, 10:01 PM

So basically now doesn't mean the same thing for you as it does everyone else? :)

Apparently not

ColtCrazy

11-13-2008, 10:06 PM

Count me in the masses that bought Fable II (excellent game) which is something since I've only bought 2 games for the system since I got it in August and got another free.

I can't believe PS3 is still doing so poorly with the holidays approaching. What will Sony do if they are still dead after Dec.?

sterlingice

11-13-2008, 10:20 PM

I wonder why they didn't make the list as they would be at 2 and 3.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-14-2008, 07:10 AM

I can't believe PS3 is still doing so poorly with the holidays approaching. What will Sony do if they are still dead after Dec.?

The 360 price cut has more to do with it than anything else. The 360 is a very cheap viable alternative at this point. Sony is expected to whack the prices in early 2009 due to cost cutting on the components. Until then, they're just going to have to ride it out. This situation is of their own doing.

I do think that the death of the PS3 is highly exaggerated based on just two months in the U.S. when the PS3 has beaten the 360 worldwide this year. That shouldn't diminish the fact that it's certainly not a good two months in the U.S. for Sony.

gstelmack

11-14-2008, 08:08 AM

I think Bill Harris is saying it best at Dubious Quality: That Is Some Serious Decepticon Bullshit (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/11/that-is-some-serious-decepticon.html):

From Sony's press release in response to the NPD numbers (thanks Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5086649/sony-responds-to-october-npd-sales-seems-pleased)):
LAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) continued its positive momentum in October, with 190K hardware units sold, a 90% growth year-to-date. This represents an increase of 56% when compared to October 2007, during which SCEA introduced a price cut for PS3.

Tell me they didn't just try to do that.

Take a look at this sentence:
This represents an increase of 56% when compared to October 2007, during which SCEA introduced a price cut for PS3.

They're not talking about the ACTUAL price cut, which came November 2. They're talking about the PRESS RELEASE on October 18 of last year announcing the price cut.

So really, they're comparing this year's sales to the month when no one bought a PS3 for the last two weeks unless they were clinically insane. In other words, it's the easiest possible compare imaginable. By the way the press release reads, though, you'd think October was the month when the actual price cut took place and tons of units were sold--the toughest possible compare.

That is some outstandingly high-level dickery.

You know when companies deceive? When they feel like they have to. That's all you need to know about how Sony perceives their own results for October.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-14-2008, 08:15 AM

I think Bill Harris is saying it best at Dubious Quality: That Is Some Serious Decepticon Bullshit (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/11/that-is-some-serious-decepticon.html):

Bill's right. The monthly PR releases from both Microsoft have become a 'who can artificially try to look better' situation. Nintendo's release just says the numbers and little more. Why? Because they're way ahead and can do so.

BTW.......My prediction that 'Wii Music' would flop was obviously spot-on. I'm surprised that anyone thought otherwise. 81K for a 1st party Nintendo game with that kind of installed hardware base is an unmitigated disaster.

sterlingice

11-14-2008, 08:27 AM

BTW.......My prediction that 'Wii Music' would flop was obviously spot-on. I'm surprised that anyone thought otherwise. 81K for a 1st party Nintendo game with that kind of installed hardware base is an unmitigated disaster.

Yes, they'll just have to cry about outselling the 360 by double and PS3 by quadruple despite no major software releases for the month.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-14-2008, 08:46 AM

Yes, they'll just have to cry about outselling the 360 by double and PS3 by quadruple despite no major software releases for the month.

SI

That's certainly one way of putting it, but Nintendo is reportedly very unhappy with the sales on Wii Music.

But I do understand that the preference in this thread is flaming, so flame away. :D

Big Fo

11-14-2008, 10:15 AM

I haven't played Wii Music but from reading reviews and watching videos of people play the game I'm glad it bombed. Hopefully Nintendo gets the message when comparing the sales of that game to Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid Prime 3, Galaxy, Smash Bros., etc.

Looking back, Guitar Hero: World Tour still did pretty poorly compared to Guitar Hero III.

GH:WT - 534k

And from October 2007 (all four of these made the top 10):

# Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock w/guitar (Xbox 360, Neversoft/Activision) - 383,200
# Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock w/guitar (Wii, Neversoft/Vicarious Visions/Activision) - 286,300
# Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock w/guitar (PlayStation 2, Neversoft/Budcat/Activision) 271.1K
# Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock (PlayStation 2, Neversoft/Budcat/Activision) - 231,700

All four of these bundles charted, totaling 1.17m, plus there are no numbers for the PS3 version or the disc only version on 360. So World Tour sold far less than half as much as the previous version.

SirFozzie

11-14-2008, 10:33 AM

Japan: This Is How Much Japan's Market Has Declined In 12 Months (http://kotaku.com/5086592/this-is-how-much-japans-market-has-declined-in-12-months)

Well, the good news is for Microsoft that 360 outsold the PS3 in Japan again last month (27K v 22K), the bad news is that year-over-year (ie, October 2008 vs October 2007) software sales are down 14.9% and Hardware sales are down an impressive 29.1%...

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-14-2008, 01:34 PM

I don't know why anyone is arguing about 2nd place. The PS3 is a failure, plain and simple. Just look at Sony's stock price. They are dramatically behind, getting beat on monthly totals today, and we're in the midst of a huge economic slowdown. Blu-Ray has bombed bigger than anyone could have possibly expected. The "tsunami" is not coming.

Absolutely. The PS3 has performed far below expectations at this point. The only thing more shocking than that is that the Xbox 360 hasn't been able to take advantage of that. They slashed their prices and still sold roughly the same number of units as last October. In addition, both Microsoft and Sony are still losing money on each console sold. Both consoles are huge failures at this point.

It's too early to write off the Blu-ray format at this point. The first run movies are now reaching the $20 price point and the players are just now getting to the $200 price point. Both are price points that they need to reach to really start selling to the mass market. Given the emphasis on HDTV's and Blu-ray as major selling points by big box retailers this fall, most expect a good holiday season in regards to those markets, though you are correct that they will be hindered somewhat by the economy.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 02:10 PM

Absolutely. The PS3 has performed far below expectations at this point. The only thing more shocking than that is that the Xbox 360 hasn't been able to take advantage of that. They slashed their prices and still sold roughly the same number of units as last October. In addition, both Microsoft and Sony are still losing money on each console sold. Both consoles are huge failures at this point.
Microsoft's XBOX division is profitible, Sony's PS3 is not. That is the only statistic that matters to either company.

And of course they both lose money on console sales. Consoles are nothing more than a loss leader. It's about building up marketshare, especially going into the final years of the console's lifespan. Microsoft will be able to sit back and cash in on video game sales, 3rd party licensing, and Live memberships. They will make major profits on this console, Sony won't.

It's too early to write off the Blu-ray format at this point. The first run movies are now reaching the $20 price point and the players are just now getting to the $200 price point. Both are price points that they need to reach to really start selling to the mass market. Given the emphasis on HDTV's and Blu-ray as major selling points by big box retailers this fall, most expect a good holiday season in regards to those markets, though you are correct that they will be hindered somewhat by the economy.

The HDTV boom happened last Christmas and it didn't help Blu-Ray. They still sell a miniscule amount of the total number of movies sold (isn't it like 3%?). The costs still remain high on producing and the lack of marketshare means the selection is going to be limited to new major movie releases. Upsampling DVD players work just fine at a fraction of the cost.

Sony missed the boat. The next step wasn't blu-ray, it was digital. No one is going to be touting their massive library of DVDs and Blu-Ray discs in 5 years. They'll have a hard drive filled with them instead. I can watch just about every new Blu-Ray release through my cable provider and in HD. $3.95 vs $250 blu-ray player and $20 disc. What do you think is going to win in a horrible economy? I can DVR tons of movies in HD for a cheap monthly fee to a couple premium channels like HBO. Heck, my 360 will be able to stream my Netflix account in a few days.

Blu-Ray is dead. Jobs knows it, Gates knows it, and just about everyone else at the forefront of technology knows it. In fact, one of the greatest business moves in recent history may be Microsoft's backing of HD-DVD. They knew it wasn't going to win out but they left enough indecisiveness in the minds of people that it never allowed Blu-Ray to get mass appeal.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-14-2008, 02:20 PM

Microsoft's XBOX division is profitible, Sony's PS3 is not. That is the only statistic that matters to either company.

And of course they both lose money on console sales. Consoles are nothing more than a loss leader. It's about building up marketshare, especially going into the final years of the console's lifespan. Microsoft will be able to sit back and cash in on video game sales, 3rd party licensing, and Live memberships. They will make major profits on this console, Sony won't.

Sony missed the boat. The next step wasn't blu-ray, it was digital.

Neither is profitable. Microsoft made money for a few months per console before the price cut reportedly put them back into a loss on each console sold. Either way, both companies are in WAY over their head in losses for their hardware.

Also, the comment you make regarding consoles being 'loss leaders' is extremely short-sighted. The Wii has been profitable from the start. After the fall by both MS and Sony this generation, you can be sure that they'll be moving to a 'profit from the start' model in future generations. The PS4 is reportedly going to be basically PS3.5. They'll have a lot of the same chips in the PS4 with a tweak on the system speed. Nothing firm has come out of MS concerning their plans for the future, but I'd be shocked to see them introduce another Xbox that isn't profitable from the start.

The 'digital card' has been played over and over in these discussions without much merit. We'll just agree to disagree. The internet isn't going to be fast enough to deliver Blu-ray quality on a mass market level. Also, your assumption that last year should have been the year for BR are highly flawed when compared to previous market trends. Both VHS and DVD had their breakout year in their 3rd holiday season. This holiday season is the 3rd for Blu-ray and major retailers are asking their sales staff to emphasize sales of HDTV's and Blu-ray.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 02:46 PM

Neither is profitable. Microsoft made money for a few months per console before the price cut reportedly put them back into a loss on each console sold. Either way, both companies are in WAY over their head in losses for their hardware.
The XBox 360 is profitible. They have been for awhile now.

Microsoft's Xbox division turns Q1 profit, ships 2.2 million consoles - Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/24/microsofts-xbox-division-turns-q1-profit-ships-2-2-million-con/)

Where are you getting your data from?

The 'digital card' has been played over and over in these discussions without much merit. We'll just agree to disagree. The internet isn't going to be fast enough to deliver Blu-ray quality on a mass market level. Also, your assumption that last year should have been the year for BR are highly flawed when compared to previous market trends. Both VHS and DVD had their breakout year in their 3rd holiday season. This holiday season is the 3rd for Blu-ray and major retailers are asking their sales staff to emphasize sales of HDTV's and Blu-ray.
Blu-Ray has a 4% market share. They are entering one of the worst holiday season we've seen in decades. This isn't going to be the big breakout year.

Digital is the future. Cable companies have ramped up their VOD sections. Online services are offering movie downloads. And some companies are putting together streaming digital movie services. Sure it has some warts, but it's the future, and it's coming on fast.

Blu-Ray may gain some minor market share and may have a nice little niche amongst tech nerds. But it's not going to be the mainstream choice for watching movies. An expensive piece of hardware with expensive discs and no selection is not going to cut it in a horrible economy. People will stick with their current setup, using VOD, or buying a cheap upsampling DVD player.

Daimyo

11-14-2008, 02:47 PM

Neither is profitable. Microsoft made money for a few months per console before the price cut reportedly put them back into a loss on each console sold. Either way, both companies are in WAY over their head in losses for their hardware.
You're comparing apples to oranges. RainMaker compared the whole product division and you're comparing just the hardware. Microsoft may well still be losing money on each console sold, but it doesn't matter because they knew it was a loss leader. They make money on every game sold (even the ones they don't publish themselves), Live, and everything else with an Xbox logo.

PS3 lost more money on each console sale and never really hit enough of a critical mass to make that loss back on software and accessories and they don't have the same reliable revenue stream from online services as Microsoft.

Also, the comment you make regarding consoles being 'loss leaders' is extremely short-sighted. The Wii has been profitable from the start. After the fall by both MS and Sony this generation, you can be sure that they'll be moving to a 'profit from the start' model in future generations. The PS4 is reportedly going to be basically PS3.5. They'll have a lot of the same chips in the PS4 with a tweak on the system speed. Nothing firm has come out of MS concerning their plans for the future, but I'd be shocked to see them introduce another Xbox that isn't profitable from the start.
The Wii has been wildly successful, but its a little early to say that it will kill the hardware-as-a-loss-leader model that every manufacturer other than Nintendo (and even them for the N64!) has been following since the PSX. I think it will certainly keep future consoles from over-reaching as much in that regard as the PS3 did this generation.

The 'digital card' has been played over and over in these discussions without much merit. We'll just agree to disagree. The internet isn't going to be fast enough to deliver Blu-ray quality on a mass market level.
People are so fixated on the internet as the next-gen video delivery mechanism and it probably will be eventually. Right now though, I can get near-Blu-Ray quality, 1080p movies on-demand through DISH Network so technology isn't a limiting factor.

The bigger question though is who is to say that the next-gen of video after DVD has to be high-def? Maybe the next-gen is just DVD-quality delivered on-demand over the internet and everyone's perfectly happy with that? What I mean is that BR isn't just fighting a battle against a single opponent.... it has to beat out like five or six opponents.

Also, your assumption that last year should have been the year for BR are highly flawed when compared to previous market trends. Both VHS and DVD had their breakout year in their 3rd holiday season. This holiday season is the 3rd for Blu-ray and major retailers are asking their sales staff to emphasize sales of HDTV's and Blu-ray.
Agreed. This is the make or break year for BR. If its not at critical mass after this Christmas, its a niche product. Looks like they may be able to reach the $200 price point just in time, but that might not even be enough with the economy the way it is now...

Having said that you can't compare BR to VHS or DVD. They faced such significantly different competition an environments that there isn't really much commonality to anchor any comparison.

gstelmack

11-14-2008, 03:07 PM

Are the $200 BR players going to be 2.0? Or the older 1.1 models? Will they be upgradable? Are they still dog slow to actually load a disc?

$200 DVD players were actually pretty good. How do the $200 Blu-Ray players stack up quality-wise? Or do you still need to spend $400 on a PS3 to get a good, stable, fast, upgradable player?

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 03:07 PM

MikeVic

11-14-2008, 03:15 PM

Yeah I have a PS3 and wanted to try BluRay. Saw that prices for movies were too crazy for me, so I bought the cheapest movie that I'd still want to watch... and that was Troy, for like $20 or something.

I watched part of it, and didn't see the wow in quality, so I'm thinking it wasn't shot in HD and therefore I could've just bought it on DVD for $10 or whatever. I still buy DVDs and ask for them as gifts, and don't care much for BluRay.

Ryan S

11-14-2008, 03:36 PM

I doubt bluray has bombed, I just think that the players are still too expensive for an average buyer to consider. In a couple of years when Bluray players are $100 or less and the disks are the same price a DVDs today it could pass DVD in popularity, but we are still in the early days of the format.

Deattribution

11-14-2008, 03:42 PM

Another difference is that one of the nice things about DVD was that you could go back 10-20 years in movies and TV shows without losing much quality. Nowadays, unless it's shot specifically for HD, the Blu-Ray is worthless. It limits consumers to new movie releases. As someone who owns a ton of DVDs, the biggest asset was that I could buy up movies I loved from 10 years ago. Only about 20% of the DVDs I purchased were new releases.

Specifically shot for HD? That isn't how film works, With about any film they can get better results. Also you may want to look at the blu-ray selection before you talk about something you obviously have no clue about, they have old releases that go back 40+ years.

And with TV, if they really wanted to, they could release in 'standard' definition on less disc than DVD.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 03:54 PM

Specifically shot for HD? That isn't how film works, With about any film they can get better results. Also you may want to look at the blu-ray selection before you talk about something you obviously have no clue about, they have old releases that go back 40+ years.

And with TV, if they really wanted to, they could release in 'standard' definition on less disc than DVD.

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.

Daimyo

11-14-2008, 04:17 PM

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.
Yes. Anything shot on film going back about 20 years can be re-transferred at HD quality. Of course being doable and being done are two very different things. I doubt many older things will really be-transferred at that level of quality though. I have a copy of the Shinking on HDDVD and it really is stunning how good it looks!

Upscaling DVD players don't really do all that much -- they certainly don't produce an HD image. Depending on your TV and the quality of the DVD player it might actually make the picture worse if the TV is better at doing it on its own. IMO though regular DVD quality is good enough for most people though.

Deattribution

11-14-2008, 05:51 PM

IMO though regular DVD quality is good enough for most people though.

Agreed, but the same thing was said about VHS until DVD became cheap enough.

Obviously the difference is VHS was much larger to store, and a bit more cumbersome to use so whether that argument will have the same play this time around we'll never really know until/unless blu-ray becomes cheap enough that there is no reason not to buy it over DVD.

Deattribution

11-14-2008, 05:56 PM

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.

There is no comparison between a upconverting DVD player and a blu-ray player. Still good enough? yes, but the same thing? no effin way.

As far as the library size, I don't know how that has anything to do with anything you were trying to argue. Besides the fact that about 150,000 of those DVDs are crap, special editions, wide screens, re-releases, compilations of the same films ect ect. Blu-ray hasn't had half the time DVD has to build a library.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 07:54 PM

There is no comparison between a upconverting DVD player and a blu-ray player. Still good enough? yes, but the same thing? no effin way.

As far as the library size, I don't know how that has anything to do with anything you were trying to argue. Besides the fact that about 150,000 of those DVDs are crap, special editions, wide screens, re-releases, compilations of the same films ect ect. Blu-ray hasn't had half the time DVD has to build a library.
So Blu-Ray is superior quality and the selection isn't a factor in anyone's decision. It's just a fluke that no one buys it.

BrianD

11-14-2008, 07:59 PM

Agreed, but the same thing was said about VHS until DVD became cheap enough.

Obviously the difference is VHS was much larger to store, and a bit more cumbersome to use so whether that argument will have the same play this time around we'll never really know until/unless blu-ray becomes cheap enough that there is no reason not to buy it over DVD.

Reasons to switch to Blu-Ray are much smaller than the reasons to switch from VHS. DVD gave instant access and chapter stops with no rewinding necessary...and most importantly, consistent quality. Not necessarily from one release to another, but the 100th view of a movie was the same quality as the first. Another big deal with cheap (compared to VHS) movies available the same day you could rent.

All Blu-Ray gives that is new is better quality. Very little extra convenience, no new longevity. One could make the argument that VHS was "good enough", but degrading quality killed that. If DVD is "good enough", there really is no other benefit. If the prices become the same so it doesn't matter what you buy...is that really a win?

Ryan S

11-14-2008, 07:59 PM

So Blu-Ray is superior quality and the selection isn't a factor in anyone's decision. It's just a fluke that no one buys it.

The players and the media are too expensive for it to be mainstream right now. There was once a time when DVD was in a similar position (though the upgrade from VHS to DVD was bigger).

Unless you think that there is no future for high def movies, bluray is going to become the new standard for movie discs.

Ryan S

11-14-2008, 08:07 PM

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 08:08 PM

The players and the media are too expensive for it to be mainstream right now. There was once a time when DVD was in a similar position (though the upgrade from VHS to DVD was bigger).

Unless you think that there is no future for high def movies, bluray is going to become the new standard for movie discs.
I think there is a future for high def movies. I just think it'll be digital and not on discs.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 08:13 PM

Another huge factor in the slow growth of bluray is the fact that you need an HDTV. You could watch DVDs on your 14" set, but there is no point in buying a bluray player if you don't have an HD ready TV.

I also think a huge factor is the fact that people already own a lot of DVDs of shows/movies they like. I have around 200 DVDs and there is really no point in "upgrading" them.

Cringer

11-14-2008, 09:20 PM

I think there is a future for high def movies. I just think it'll be digital and not on discs.

It is digital for you, not for my 55 year old mother, not for myself, not for 35 year old mom who isn't popping a disc into a player seems so much easier then anything 'digital' or downloading. I like how you (or someone else maybe) said blu ray may end up being a good niche market for super nerds, but the same thing could be said about digital/download. Just because you like digital download/PPV and the like, doesn't mean the masses will. A lot of people will always feel a disk is not only the easier way to watch a movie, but also the safest ("What happens if my HD crashes? I don't understand how this digital download works, do I have to hook my computer up to my TV?").

I also think a huge factor is the fact that people already own a lot of DVDs of shows/movies they like. I have around 200 DVDs and there is really no point in "upgrading" them.

Ah, another reason I think blu ray still has a future. You have 200 DVDs. So do a lot of other people. When their DVD player dies they are not going to say screw those DVD I will just watch PPV from now on, they are more likely to upgrade to a blu ray player then do that. Some will get a blu ray, some may just buy another $20 DVD player every year. Either way, blu ray grows some that way as well.

Both ways will end up being around IMO. Both will have markets.

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 09:52 PM

It is digital for you, not for my 55 year old mother, not for myself, not for 35 year old mom who isn't popping a disc into a player seems so much easier then anything 'digital' or downloading. I like how you (or someone else maybe) said blu ray may end up being a good niche market for super nerds, but the same thing could be said about digital/download. Just because you like digital download/PPV and the like, doesn't mean the masses will. A lot of people will always feel a disk is not only the easier way to watch a movie, but also the safest ("What happens if my HD crashes? I don't understand how this digital download works, do I have to hook my computer up to my TV?").
The music companies said the same thing about digital music. Digital is simply cheaper and easier to use. Most cable companies will be offering their own Netflix style service in the next two years. We'll have Netflix streaming through 360's. VOD services are expanding dramatically. Set-top boxes are coming out by numerous companies.

Digital is simply the future. Sure there will be people like you mentioned who will buy Blu-Ray discs, just as their are still people who buy compact discs for their music. But it will not be the primary method of watching movies.

Ah, another reason I think blu ray still has a future. You have 200 DVDs. So do a lot of other people. When their DVD player dies they are not going to say screw those DVD I will just watch PPV from now on, they are more likely to upgrade to a blu ray player then do that. Some will get a blu ray, some may just buy another $20 DVD player every year. Either way, blu ray grows some that way as well.
I just think it's tough to convince someone to upgrade when DVD player's can be bought for literally 10% the price of a Blu-Ray player.

While I own 200 DVDs, I haven't bought many at all in the past year and a half. Basically just a few TV shows I liked. I switched to Netflix which was cheaper and more efficient. If there is a new movie in HD that I really want to see, I just pay the $3.95 on VOD. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but there are just too many options available for me now to stick to one format.

Both ways will end up being around IMO. Both will have markets.
I agree, although I don't think Blu-Ray will come remotely close to what DVD has done. There are too many good options these days for movie fans. Plus, Blu-Ray is still years away from being competitively priced. I think we're still looking at 3-4 years before they have the selection and pricing that can match today's current DVDs. And in 3-4 years, I just think digital will be so far ahead of where it is now, it'll be tough to compete.

Deattribution

11-14-2008, 10:31 PM

Digital will be limited by bandwidth and download speeds. The only people who can offer on demand HD quality content is the cable companies and their services are limited to what they feel will be enough to keep subscribers (for free content) and will make PPV money for paid.

360's, set top boxes and all the other crap will have the 10 to 15 hour download waits for a HD movie on top of all the other previously mentioned concerns. Top that off with a company like Comcast limiting bandwidth use and it ain't happening anytime soon.

Eaglesfan27

11-14-2008, 10:42 PM

Satellite is also providing HD movies that you can queue easily. I downloaded a movie that looked great earlier this week.

Cringer

11-14-2008, 10:43 PM

The music companies said the same thing about digital music. Digital is simply cheaper and easier to use. Most cable companies will be offering their own Netflix style service in the next two years. We'll have Netflix streaming through 360's. VOD services are expanding dramatically. Set-top boxes are coming out by numerous companies.

Digital is simply the future. Sure there will be people like you mentioned who will buy Blu-Ray discs, just as their are still people who buy compact discs for their music. But it will not be the primary method of watching movies.

I just think it's tough to convince someone to upgrade when DVD player's can be bought for literally 10% the price of a Blu-Ray player.

While I own 200 DVDs, I haven't bought many at all in the past year and a half. Basically just a few TV shows I liked. I switched to Netflix which was cheaper and more efficient. If there is a new movie in HD that I really want to see, I just pay the $3.95 on VOD. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but there are just too many options available for me now to stick to one format.

I agree, although I don't think Blu-Ray will come remotely close to what DVD has done. There are too many good options these days for movie fans. Plus, Blu-Ray is still years away from being competitively priced. I think we're still looking at 3-4 years before they have the selection and pricing that can match today's current DVDs. And in 3-4 years, I just think digital will be so far ahead of where it is now, it'll be tough to compete.

That is my point, yet you won't apply it to digital for some reason. There are options, and they will continue to be there. I won't use VOD because that is a cable thing, I won't get cable because cable doesn't have NFL Sunday Ticket or MLS Direct Kick. I can get pay per view, but why use PPV when I can now go down to the corner store and rent the same movie for $.99 from Red Box (great things by the way) and pick up a Coke at the same time.

We have a lot of choices, and not just for moives. One may not dominate, I am not sure why people always have to argue that one has to. The past doesn't always show how the future will be.

General Mike

11-14-2008, 10:52 PM

RainMaker

11-14-2008, 11:11 PM

Downloading music is viable because the files are very small and 99.9999% of computers have at least a CD burner to provide a method of backing up the application.

Maybe you don't care about having a physical copy of things you buy, but if I am spending $10 to buy a CD as a digital download, I'm going to take the 5 minutes and burn a copy. If I bought a movie as a download, I would burn a copy, but with the price of blank DVDs, or in the future blank BR discs, It is just easier to buy from the store.
Music files are small to us now but would have seemed huge 15 years ago. In 5 years, who is to say that movie files won't be considered small to us. It seems that many of you who are trying to make cases against digital are of the belief that digital technology won't make any advancements.

As for backups, why not just make a digital backup somewhere else? It's not like hard drive space will be expensive in a few years. Heck, you can get 1TB for a little over $100 these days.

Cringer

11-15-2008, 02:27 AM

Music files are small to us now but would have seemed huge 15 years ago. In 5 years, who is to say that movie files won't be considered small to us. It seems that many of you who are trying to make cases against digital are of the belief that digital technology won't make any advancements.

As for backups, why not just make a digital backup somewhere else? It's not like hard drive space will be expensive in a few years. Heck, you can get 1TB for a little over $100 these days.

Sounds like it is getting more expensive now, and not as simple as it first looked. Maybe I will just buy that disk that goes in and out of the machine. ;)

gstelmack

11-15-2008, 07:10 AM

When the compression formats are good enough / the TV providers are willing to provide enough bandwidth so I don't get pixellation in high-action sequences, then I will believe digital has arrived. But unless it's a low-action chick-flick, I'm getting tired of compression artifacts in my HD On-Demand and HBOHD movies. And I loves me an action flick...

BillJasper

11-16-2008, 04:47 AM

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-19-2008, 01:54 PM

I still think it is going to take a major studio to release something big exclusively on Blu-Ray. Perhaps Sony does it with Quantum of Solace?

People aren't going to switch to Blu-Ray until it has something they want and can't get anywhere else.

As is noted in this research, the biggest holdback right now for Blu-ray is clearly the price.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/files/DEGWhitePaper.pdf

The sharp decrease in price of both the players and discs in recent months is a direct response to that. With sub-$150 Blu-ray players now a reality this holiday season if you shop around, that hurdle appears to have been crossed. A Blu-ray player can be had for $50-60 more than a upconverting DVD player. Also, the research by the Digital Entertainment Guild seems to conflict with Microsoft's PR assertion that the HD consumer market is trending to digital download. The opposite seems to be true.

I was also shocked to see that 3 in 10 HDTV owners already have a Blu-ray player (PS3 or stand-alone). That should bode well for Blu-ray given the increased emphasis on HD entertainment this holiday season by retailers.

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-19-2008, 01:56 PM

Surprise release upcoming from Sony this holiday season. "Afrika" has been rebranded as "National Geographic: Afrika" and will be available via Blu-ray and PSN in the next few weeks.

Big Fo

11-19-2008, 06:13 PM

Boom Blox 2 (working title) is being made for the Wii, no word on when it will be out.

gamespot.com link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201358.html?part=rss&tag=gs_wii&subj=6201358)

MJ4H

11-19-2008, 06:17 PM

Awesome.

sterlingice

11-20-2008, 10:17 AM

That's a game I need to get when it drops in price or when there's some sort of sale.

SI

Big Fo

11-20-2008, 05:07 PM

That's a game I need to get when it drops in price or when there's some sort of sale.

SI

$20 at Target on Black Friday.

sterlingice

11-20-2008, 07:46 PM

Well, damn. That's just peachy :)

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-21-2008, 12:55 PM

Aylmar

11-21-2008, 03:36 PM

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Absolutely. I have "The Cowboys" (you know, the old John Wayne movie from 1972) on Blu-Ray and it looks phenomenal. Amazingly crisp picture. My buddy and I watched it and were amazed at how awesome they made it look. It's like night and day from the DVD copy.

RainMaker

11-21-2008, 04:52 PM

Unbelievable. Eidos gets outed again for trying to keep low scores for the upcoming Tomb Raider game from being posted until well after release. You would have thought they would have learned their lesson after the whole Kane and Lynch review fiasco.........

videogaming247 » Blog Archive » UK Tomb Raider: Underworld reviews under 8/10 silenced until Monday [Update] (http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/11/21/uk-tomb-raider-underworld-reviews-under-810-silenced-until-monday/)

Can a company really silence a review? I mean how can they really punish someone? Seems there is some moral issues that some of these review sites have to deal with. Not just Eidos fault here.

People should flood the review sites giving the game a 1 out of 10.

Deattribution

11-21-2008, 05:02 PM

Can a company really silence a review? I mean how can they really punish someone? Seems there is some moral issues that some of these review sites have to deal with. Not just Eidos fault here.

People should flood the review sites giving the game a 1 out of 10.

Out of all the companies, I don't see how Eidos could strong arm a reviewer or site since they haven't been relevant in about a decade.

gstelmack

11-21-2008, 05:06 PM

Absolutely. I have "The Cowboys" (you know, the old John Wayne movie from 1972) on Blu-Ray and it looks phenomenal. Amazingly crisp picture. My buddy and I watched it and were amazed at how awesome they made it look. It's like night and day from the DVD copy.

Everyone forgets that film has a much higher resolution.

MJ4H

11-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Not everyone!

Eaglesfan27

11-27-2008, 09:06 PM

THQ cancels the PS3 version of the Destroy No Humans 3, citing "development problems" as the primary reason for canceling the PS3 version. They are still releasing a 360 version next week:

THQ Destroying no Humans on PS3 - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201734.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;6)

The Wii has sold over 7 million units in Japan. That is approximately 3 times more than the PS3 totals:

Wii hits 7 million in Japan - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201735.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3)

Mizzou B-ball fan

11-28-2008, 08:10 AM

This is going to be an interesting holiday season as far as Sony goes. The PS3 isn't priced well at all at this point and will struggle during this holiday season. The 360 just has too many good deals at this point, mostly due to the cost advantage of their console.

On the other hand, the Blu-ray stand-alone players have hit the magic price point at just the right time. They're expected to do extremely well this holiday season.

It'll be interesting to see just how poorly the PS3 does (the spring '09 price cuts can't come quick enough) and if the upswing in Blu-ray business will help to offset those losses.

Cringer

11-28-2008, 12:36 PM

I missed out on all the $20 games at Target, kind of disappointed. Brothers at Arms: Hell's Highway on all consoles, and Boom Blox were two games I wanted. Too slow, oh well. I did pick up Call of Duty 5 for PS3 since I am now addicted to multiplayer for it, it was $10 off.

Big Fo

11-28-2008, 02:09 PM

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much but there was a lot of interest in the $200 Sony and Samsung Blu-Ray players at Best Buy today.

Like Cringer I missed out on Boom Blox for $20. Oh well.

Big Fo

12-01-2008, 07:19 PM

According to Microsoft they kicked some butt over Black Friday and the holiday weekend.

Xbox 360 Registers Biggest Black Friday in Its History

Xbox 360 consoles and games sell at record levels; outsells PlayStation 3 by three-to-one ratio.

REDMOND, Wash., Dec 01, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system kicked off the holidays with record- breaking console sales on one of the biggest shopping weekends of the year in the U.S. Retailers reported Xbox 360 console sales over the Black Friday weekend were on pace to beat previous years, outselling the PlayStation 3 by a three-to-one ratio and estimating a 25 percent increase from Xbox 360 Black Friday sales figures from 2007.

Strong game sales rounded out a historic Black Friday for Xbox 360, with record-paced software sales continuing for key Microsoft titles, such as "Gears of War 2," "Fable II," and "Lips." Xbox 360 continues to have the highest game attach rate of any console at 8.1 games per console.

"We entered into the Black Friday sales period with cautious optimism, knowing that dollar for dollar, Xbox 360 offers more social entertainment value than any other console on the market," said Don Mattrick, senior vice president of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft. "Record Black Friday sales in the U.S., coupled with our existing global install base of 25 million and an online community of more than 14 million Xbox LIVE members, have laid the groundwork for continued global sales momentum in 2009."

Xbox 360 sales have also surged worldwide since the September price drop, outselling the PlayStation 3 week over week across Europe. Console sales in Europe are up as much as 400 percent, with sales nearly double year over year and reaching 7 million consoles sold this generation.

With a mass-market price point starting at $199.99 worldwide (estimated retail price) for Xbox 360 Arcade, a games lineup of more broad-appeal social titles than any other platform, and the recently launched New Xbox Experience, Xbox 360 is leading the industry and inviting everyone to play.

The European numbers are nice as well and they've even been keeping pace with the PS3 in Japan over the last month or two.

sterlingice

12-01-2008, 08:05 PM

So how'd the Wii do? ;)

And the lack of numbers is just annoying

SI

Big Fo

12-01-2008, 08:40 PM

November 2007:

Wii - 981k
360 - 777k
PS3 - 466k

The Wii numbers for Nov. 08 should be well over a million due to increased production. Maybe it will beat the PS2's November record of 1.3 million in 2002.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-02-2008, 08:11 AM

So how'd the Wii do? ;)

And the lack of numbers is just annoying

SI

Agreed. The lack of numbers in the MS and Sony releases are very telling.

TroyF

12-02-2008, 08:19 AM

Agreed. The lack of numbers in the MS and Sony releases are very telling.

Not sure that they are. Here is an article I found from VG Chartz:

Did somebody say recession? VG Chartz presents an early look at hardware and software sales from Thanksgiving week, traditionally the start of the holiday season in the US and home to black friday - the biggest single retail day of the year. Note that these figures represent early estimates based on only a small sample of data - the finalised figures will be released in the next few days.

As expected, the big winner during last week was Nintendo. According to our early estimates, over 1.7 million Wii and DS units were sold last week in the Americas (with DS selling more than Wii), eclipsing the 1 million units of Nintendo hardware sold during the same period last year. This represents around $300 million in sales with a similar amount grossed for software. Top software performers were Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Guitar Hero: World Tour, Rock Band, Wii Music, New Super Mario Bros, Brain Age and Nerf-N-Strike.
Microsoft will also be pleased with their performance last week, over half a million Xbox360s were sold with around half of those being the $199 Arcade SKU. Strong software performers were Call of Duty: World at War, Gears of War 2, Guitar Hero: World Tour and Rock Band 2.
Last but by no means least, Sony saw some good increases for black friday with PS3 selling around 225,000 units and PSP managing to move slightly more (around 275,000). PS2 also performed well on around 175,000 units. Strong software performers were LittleBigPlanet, Resistance 2, Call of Duty: World at War and Guitar Hero: World Tour.
So overall that is around 2.9 million units of hardware sold compared to just over 2 million for Thanksgiving week last year. It seems that price is king in 2008 and with the current financial situation the big winners for the holidays will be Wii, DS and Xbox360 Arcade - assuming of course that manufacturers can cope with demand!

If their estimates for Thanksgiving week are even close, Nintendo and Microsoft are going to have ridiculously large months.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-02-2008, 08:25 AM

Not sure that they are. Here is an article I found from VG Chartz:

If their estimates for Thanksgiving week are even close, Nintendo and Microsoft are going to have ridiculously large months.

Yes, but I should have obviously clarified why they were telling. Sure, the 360 and PS3 sold units, but the fact that they didn't report the numbers illustrates that they're trying to avoid showing just how badly they're getting hammered by Nintendo at this point. That's been the case for some time now.

TroyF

12-02-2008, 08:42 AM

Yes, but I should have obviously clarified why they were telling. Sure, the 360 and PS3 sold units, but the fact that they didn't report the numbers illustrates that they're trying to avoid showing just how badly they're getting hammered by Nintendo at this point. That's been the case for some time now.

You seriously think Sony and MS are competing with the Wii at this point?

That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. Both realize it, no matter what they say. The Wii has crushed them in this generation and that won't change.

Big Fo

12-02-2008, 08:47 AM

I found an article from last year (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16436) that says MS sold 310k XBox 360's during Black Friday weekend 2007. That plus the 25% increase mentioned in the PR this year is about 380k.

Nintendo sold 350k Wiis and a ridiculous 653k DS's last year during the holiday weekend. (http://kotaku.com/gaming/black-friday/nintendo-350k-wii-sold-last-week-record-ds-sales-327167.php)

Between the 360 and the Wii Black Friday weekend 2007 represented 36-40% of November 2007's total sales so if that held true we'd be looking at 950k-1.05m 360's sold in November, a very impressive number. Obviously Microsoft did well getting the arcade unit down to $199 for the holiday season.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-02-2008, 08:55 AM

You seriously think Sony and MS are competing with the Wii at this point?

That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. Both realize it, no matter what they say. The Wii has crushed them in this generation and that won't change.

Would they like to? Sure. Do they have a chance? No.

Big Fo

12-08-2008, 06:30 AM

800,000 Wiis were sold during Thanksgiving weekend. Crazy.

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8131440)

Samdari

12-08-2008, 07:55 AM

Nowadays, unless it's shot specifically for HD, the Blu-Ray is worthless.

This is not true at all.

Film has higher resolution than any electronic recording methodology. In fact, its infinite relative to the electronic focal plane arrays, even the HD ones.

The question is how are things transferred. If they make the Blu-Ray from something shot on film, there would be no difference between mastering a movie from 50 years ago vs one shot yesterday.

If they master the Blu-Ray from an existing digitization (i.e. 480p DVD) or from something recorded electronically at a lower resolution, then it will look terrible.

I'd imagine that lack of older movies on Blu Ray has a lot to do with how much money they think they will make. But, the reason is NOT technical considering all of those movies were shot on film.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-08-2008, 08:19 AM

This is not true at all.

Film has higher resolution than any electronic recording methodology. In fact, its infinite relative to the electronic focal plane arrays, even the HD ones.

The question is how are things transferred. If they make the Blu-Ray from something shot on film, there would be no difference between mastering a movie from 50 years ago vs one shot yesterday.

If they master the Blu-Ray from an existing digitization (i.e. 480p DVD) or from something recorded electronically at a lower resolution, then it will look terrible.

I'd imagine that lack of older movies on Blu Ray has a lot to do with how much money they think they will make. But, the reason is NOT technical considering all of those movies were shot on film.

I usually check out some of the film geek sites like The Digital Bits when the old movies are released on Blu-ray. They'll quickly let you know how good (or bad) the transfer is on the new releases.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-08-2008, 08:26 AM

800,000 Wiis were sold during Thanksgiving weekend. Crazy.

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8131440)

I noticed that Pachter predicted the following for November......

Wii: 1.4M
360: 800K
PS3: 400K

Interesting that the Wii sales have increased 30% over last year, while the 360 and PS3 sales have remained similar to last year (360 up 30K and PS3 seeing a 50K downturn). The PS3 shouldn't be that big of a surprise with the higher price tag still in place, but the 360 should have seen more movement given the major price-slashes from a year ago.

JonInMiddleGA

12-08-2008, 10:00 AM

I figure the people who know this stuff will be in this thread, so, once again, please talk to me like I'm stupid.

Start by correcting me where I'm wrong:
-- There's at least 3 versions of the 360 at the moment.
1) Arcade, which has no hard drive, and zero backwards compatibility
2) "Regular", which has a 60 GB drive, and can run some regular XBox games
3) Elite, which has a 120 GB drive, and also runs some regular XBox games

From looking at the official site I think I've got that part right.

Q1) If so, what's the current pricepoint for the Arcade vs the regular/standard/whateveritscalled? And what's availability like these days?

So far I've found
-- an Elite bundle at target.com (w/Kung Fu Panda & Lego Indiana Jones) for $299 atm, same thing is called Pro bundle at walmart, and at Best Buy
-- an Arcade bundled with GH3 & GHWT (wireless guitar only) & 5 arcade games for $269.

Are those about as good as it gets or should I be looking elsewhere?

Q2) Gamewise, best price I'm finding on GHWT full instrument package for 360 is $189 at Wal-Mart. That's my son's top priority for the 360, although frankly I imagine he'll end up spending as much time in the long run with Destroy All Humans (Lord knows he's played the first two enough). Better deal out there somewhere on GHWT?

Q3) I know you have to do something with X-Box Live to get backward compatibility to work, is it idiot proofed enough that even I can handle it? And is that something that requires a paid membership/credits/whatever to do or is it like a freebie for owning the 360? (I know a lot of Live stuff has costs associated, I just don't know whether all of it does or not)

3b) Generally speaking what is/isn't back compatible? Although he's got more PS2 titles than XBox titles, I know his Lego Star Wars & earlier Halo's are XBox, as well as some other stuff that I can't keep track of. Good chance they'll work? Little chance they'll work? 50/50?

I still prefer he get the PS3 personally, but he leans slightly 360, his mother even moreso, (based on the notion that "if it dies we can buy another one for what the PS3 costs), so who am I to argue with them?

Thanks in advance {as I grumble about playing Pong & being damned happy about it, much less the technological marvel that was Intellivision}

gstelmack

12-08-2008, 10:12 AM

1) $199/$299/$399. I think that Target thing is just the Pro: right now that comes with those two games everywhere.

2) Not up on GHWT. But get him on the Rock Band 2 bandwagon, it's a much better game...

3) Backward compatibility is an update over Live downloaded when the console is updated, and you should just need a Silver account for those updates. Silver is free and allows you to buy things and download updates. Gold on Live is $50/year (you can occasionally find 12+1 13 month membership cards for $40) and gets you online matchmaking and the ability to buy some things early or get downloads early.

3b) Most stuff is backward compatible. There's a list on xbox.com somewhere, but there are only a few titles, many of which were not good sellers, that aren't.

gstelmack

12-08-2008, 10:14 AM

Here you go: Xbox.com | Xbox 360 - Original Xbox Games on Xbox 360 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm)

JonInMiddleGA

12-08-2008, 10:24 AM

2) Not up on GHWT. But get him on the Rock Band 2 bandwagon, it's a much better game...

Oh trust me, he wants that too but at least a little fiscal responsibility is required this Christmas. Swear to God, the only reason he wants GHWT over RB2 first is because he thinks he's got to have the drum kit with more pads than RB1 had. {cue curmudgeonly parental grumbling}

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-08-2008, 10:42 AM

Oh trust me, he wants that too but at least a little fiscal responsibility is required this Christmas. Swear to God, the only reason he wants GHWT over RB2 first is because he thinks he's got to have the drum kit with more pads than RB1 had. {cue curmudgeonly parental grumbling}

There's supposed to be a patch to resolve the drum problem between the two. RB2 has a $20 expansion that adds two cymbals to the drum set, making a total of 4 drums and 2 cymbals. They're going to add a patch so one of those cymbals becomes the 5th drum and allows the player to use all 5 drums on the GHWT game with a RB2 drum set.

I'd echo the others. RB2 is far superior to GHWT. Much better 'hit' recognition and the refusal of Gamestop franchises to accept any GHWT instrument returns is very concerning from a quality perspective.

gstelmack

12-08-2008, 11:32 AM

Daimyo

12-08-2008, 11:40 AM

gstelmack

12-08-2008, 11:46 AM

You could also just buy him something like that ION real electric drum kit that works with RB2 ;-)

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-08-2008, 12:50 PM

Wii available online WITH NO BUNDLE. $249. Get it quick if you want one.

Walmart.com - Always Low Prices! (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?dest=9999999997&product_id=10726532&sourceid=31154312963959859587)

SackAttack

12-08-2008, 01:29 PM

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-08-2008, 01:48 PM

What he said. Cymbal expansion is out there, although you'd need the RB2 drums to use it, I think. I don't think it works with the RB1 drums he may already have.

Correct. Cymbals only work with RB2 drum kit.

Big Fo

12-08-2008, 04:33 PM

For the people who regularly read these threads, which would you prefer for Thursday and the months to follow?

(a) A new thread each month when the NPD numbers come out

(b) Keep one thread going with title changes when the next month's numbers are released

The main advantage with (a) is that the numbers are in the first post, the main advantages with (b) is that discussions in the latter days of one month can continue into the next month and that there is never a situation where two of these threads are on the first page. It's not very important at all of course, but last month I went with (b) and at least one person asked about it, so I figured why not throw the question out there.

gstelmack

12-08-2008, 06:09 PM

We could have rivaled the Maximum Football and Who Will Win the Election? threads if we'd been doing (b) since day one.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-09-2008, 06:57 AM

Couple of good deals.....

ToysRUs has buy 1, get $20 off the second on all Wii games.

Amazon has Warhawk and Ridge Racer 7 for $10.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-09-2008, 01:45 PM

Some leaked info about God of War 3. Really looking forward to this game to see if it can meet the high expectations created.........

The VG Tilt: God of War 3 details (http://www.vgtilt.com/2008/12/god-of-war-2-details.html)

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-09-2008, 06:13 PM

Pretty good package deal for a PS3 if you looking to buy The Dark Knight. PS3 80 GB + Resistance 2 Collector's Edition + Dark Knight Blu-ray Disc for $399.

Save When You Buy the PS3, "The Dark Knight" Two-Disc Blu-ray, and "Resistance 2" Together (http://slickdeals.net/?pno=16347&lno=1&afsrc=1)

Edit: Sold out.

Cringer

12-09-2008, 06:33 PM

Well, that kind of pisses me off since I just got mine not too long ago. I hate electronics. :)

Big Fo

12-09-2008, 06:46 PM

EA might be feeling the effects of the weakened economy.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Video game publisher Electronic Arts Inc. said Tuesday it expects revenue and earnings for fiscal 2009 to miss its prior outlook because of weaker-than-expected holiday sales. The company will also cut more jobs to reduce costs.

The Redwood City, Calif.-based publisher of games like the "Madden" football series and "Rock Band" said its sales in North America and Europe were below expectations.

The company does not plan to provide an updated forecast for the fiscal year, which ends in March, until it posts its third-quarter results in February.

In October, EA predicted adjusted earnings per share of between $1 and $1.40 for the year. It had lowered its estimates already because of the delay of the latest "Harry Potter" game. On this basis, analysts polled by Thomson Reuters are forecasting earnings of $1.16 per share.

The company's adjusted revenue forecast -- which exclude deferred revenue for some online games -- had been for $5 to $5.3 billion. Analysts are predicting sales of $5.06 billion.

The company also said at the time it plans to cut 6 percent of its work force, or about 500 to 600 jobs, across all functions and locations to lower costs. EA said Tuesday it is reducing its product portfolio for fiscal 2010, with more job cuts and facility consolidations. It did not say how many additional jobs would be affected.

While some of EA's holiday titles, such as "Dead Space" and "Left 4 Dead," have performed well, others, like "Need for Speed Undercover" "Mirror's Edge" and even the latest installment of the popular "Rock Band" franchise have not, according to analysts.

The company said many older titles have been selling below expectations.

Chief Executive John Riccitiello told analysts in a conference call EA plans to reduce costs, but also invest more in areas like marketing its hit games.

"We are cutting at the bottom of the range and planning to push our top titles more aggressively," he said.

EA's shares fell $1.92, or 9.9 percent, to $17.43 in after-hours trading. The stock had closed down $2.52, or 11.5 percent, at $19.35. The stock is down about 67 percent since the start of the year.

Game maker Electronic Arts warns on profit, sales - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Electronic-Arts-warns-on-2009-apf-13787862.html)

Making better games for Wii and DS probably wouldn't hurt either.