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Why wont the US television stations play the footage that is obviously being shown everywhere else in the world? CNN claims that the live footage from the war zone is "groundbreaking" and "historic" but they still refuse to provide the people of the US with the FULL account of ALL things that are going on. Why are we not getting the footage of the POWS?
Airhog
03-23-2003, 08:36 PM
I agree CBS has shown the same footage for the past two days...
Ragone
03-23-2003, 08:40 PM
In accordance with the military, i don't think they are allowed to show footage of the pow's till the families are informed.. same thing with military deaths
Tarkus
03-23-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Hyde
Why wont the US television stations play the footage that is obviously being shown everywhere else in the world? CNN claims that the live footage from the war zone is "groundbreaking" and "historic" but they still refuse to provide the people of the US with the FULL account of ALL things that are going on. Why are we not getting the footage of the POWS?
Because the major networks have been asked not to show it until the next of kin or relatives have been notified, and unlike those uncivilized assholes we're cognizant of the affects of learning a loved one has just perished or been captured.
Tarkus
My point is that CNN showed the terror attacks on 9/11 and all of the bombings the US does in Iraq but not that. It just seems too slanted.
Tarkus
03-23-2003, 08:58 PM
Did you even read my post? Okay, screw the relatives of the troops, Hyde wants to see the video. :rolleyes:
Tarkus
I did read your post and I just disagree about the footage not being shown. If you dont want to watch it and know everything that is going on over there then by all means dont watch it. I want to see it. The United States has no problems showing dead Iraqi troops and footage of other people from all over the world being tortured and killed, but not this....
Ben E Lou
03-23-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Hyde
I did read your post and I just disagree about the footage not being shown. If you dont want to watch it and know everything that is going on over there then by all means dont watch it. I want to see it. The United States has no problems showing dead Iraqi troops and footage of other people from all over the world being tortured and killed, but not this.... ...and because YOU want to watch it, you think it should be shown before the families of the victims are notified, huh????? Unbelievable.
Daimyo
03-23-2003, 09:16 PM
Wow.
Ben E Lou
03-23-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Hyde
Yep. I am going to just hold my thoughts in.
Airhog
03-23-2003, 09:27 PM
I just want to clarify my thoughts on this subject. I dont think its right to show footage of pow's....however I dont think the US media should hold back covereage unless its vital to the security of an operation. I have yet to see any live footage of troops fighting, and I guess we probably will not see that footage. I have seen very few clips of any fighting. They have even toned back other footage. Wheres the footage from baghdad of the air strikes? Wheres the footage from all of the reporters stationed with troops inside iraq? Why show 2-3 day old footage?
Tekneek
03-23-2003, 09:27 PM
CNN showed 9/11, fine. I don't recall closeups on the dead bodies though. Do you? I never saw such footage. Did you record it, by any chance? I sure would love to see that, just so you can prove your point.
I can't believe how sick some people in this world are. Hyde, what would you do if that were one of your family members? Ask for the footage to be shown then?
Have you ever seen footage of chemical attacks in the Middle East from the past? They showed alot of dead bodies in alot of footage. My point has already been proven. Its just supposed to somehow be different when the dead bodies are those of people from the United States. But, like I said before, my point has already been proven.
Originally posted by Hyde
Have you ever seen footage of chemical attacks in the Middle East from the past? They showed alot of dead bodies in alot of footage. My point has already been proven. Its just supposed to somehow be different when the dead bodies are those of people from the United States. But, like I said before, my point has already been proven.
No, your point hasn't been proven. The Television stations are doing what is right by not showing the footage before families are notified. Even if the families have been notified maybe people just don't want to see those images. Why exactly do you want to see them?
Tekneek
03-23-2003, 09:39 PM
Hyde - The only footage of a 'chemical attack' from the Middle East that I have ever seen is about two or three seconds from when Saddam gassed some people. It was from a distance and you could not even begin to recognize who anyone was. Aside from that, I never saw the footage myself until several years after the event. Not hours or even days. You have not proven your point. Present evidence.
couriers
03-23-2003, 09:39 PM
Part of the problem is that the media in Iraq is state run, which means that there could be problems with the video in regards to authenticity. In this respect the U.S. is doing a good job of making sure that the timing is correct before jumping the gun. If anyone has a problem with waiting until the right moment for the video then they obviously have other underlining problems to begin with. Maybe a trip to the local video store to pick up a copy of Faces of Death might sooth the adolescent mentality for a while.
kiwiLB57
03-23-2003, 09:41 PM
Hyde,
Follow your al-jazeera bookmark. The footage is there. Hope you like what you find..
I, for one, am glad that a news organisation such as CNN has shown the commercial courage NOT to screen certain things, when other global networks have screened live combat footage etc .
In the ratings bonanza that the war has obviously become it is somehow pleasing to see that a company can make ethical decisions without regard to $$$.
My thoughts and prayers are with the captured soldiers and their families. And with the brave service people from other countries fighting on my behalf.
kiwiDE57
Just what country do you guys think that you live in? Just because it is reported that something has happened does not make it so. I say they should have to show the footage and prove that it happened. One last thing and I am leaving this alone...Americans are in severe denial about the amount of deaths that the United States has been responsible for. And now that it comes into our homes as being very real, it is shocking to most Americans. Unless that footage is shown in the United States it proves my point that the United States stations, by not showing the footage, is just as guilty of state run media control as Iraq is by showing it. Same thing on different sides of the coin. No matter how you slam my thoughts on this subject you will never change my thoughts on this subject. Just as I have no intention of changing your thoughts on it.
Tekneek
03-23-2003, 09:53 PM
The video/pictures are out there. Learn how to use a search engine instead of blaming CNN.
CamEdwards
03-23-2003, 09:54 PM
Since I can never change your thoughts on this subject, I guess I'll just leave it at calling you an asshat.
Fritz
03-23-2003, 09:58 PM
I think Cam gives a tap when a full fledged bitchslap is called for.
Fritz,
If you think your enough of a bad ass to do that then just post your address and we can find out.
Airhog
03-23-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by CamEdwards
Since I can never change your thoughts on this subject, I guess I'll just leave it at calling you an asshat.
I aspire to one day being called an Asshat by Cam
Oh yeah, Fritz, your wife left her panties in my bed this morining, your sister left her bra in the back of my car, and your mom told me that she left her dentures under your desk at your office. Just thought you would like to know.
Tekneek
03-23-2003, 10:07 PM
Ok. I believe you are crossing the lines of acceptable conduct on the message board with that one, Hyde. Threatening talk like that can only lead to trouble, and in this day and age the police consider that kind of stuff to be akin to terrorism. Just keep that in mind, if you are inside the US.
Fritz
03-23-2003, 10:08 PM
are you trying to pick a fistfight on an internet forum?
Ben E Lou
03-23-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Hyde
Fritz,
If you think your enough of a bad ass to do that then just post your address and we can find out. Now THAT is a no-no. Hyde, you've just earned yourself a week in the box.
Fritz
03-23-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Hyde
Oh yeah, Fritz, your wife left her panties in my bed this morining, your sister left her bra in the back of my car, and your mom told me that she left her dentures under your desk at your office. Just thought you would like to know.
My wife is leaving me, my mother is dead, and my sister was stillborn. Got another one for me asshole?
couriers
03-23-2003, 10:15 PM
lol
Qwikshot
03-23-2003, 10:22 PM
It's discomforting to know that Americans were captured, and some executed. It is no surprise since we are dealing with a less than humane dictatorship (no not the U.S.). This will occur again, there will be isolated incidents, though for our 12 servicemen captured, the U.S. has captured over 2,000? So the ratio is still quite impressive (not to sound robotic, I do value human life and any life lost is senseless).
This will only serve to draw the division between pro-war and pro-peace deeper...as both will state this as proof for being there/not being there.
I can only hope that this war ends quickly, I think Iraqis are being lulled into a sense of overconfidence (which the U.S. had been in) since the bombings are strategic enough to not hit civilian areas (Baghdad still has running water and electricity). It must be a surreal experience to go about your daily life with bombs flying around (confident enough to know that they won't hit you).
As for the Hyde thing, I leave that up to the mod, it is disappointing to know there are people like this, but it is no surprise.
Daimyo
03-23-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Fritz
My wife is leaving me, my mother is dead, and my sister was stillborn. Got another one for me asshole?
I assume you're joking about the first part, but if not I'm really sorry to hear that Fritz... :(
Tarkus
03-23-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Daimyo
I assume you're joking about the first part, but if not I'm really sorry to hear that Fritz... :(
Fritz, if the first part is true, I'm very sorry. But keep in mind Easy Mac might have a girl for ya. ;)
Tarkus
sabotai
03-23-2003, 11:21 PM
Wow, a personal threat just because he wants to see some footage...wow.
It's best not to threaten Fritz to get what you want.
Just slip some ruffies into his Diet Dr. Pepper and he's yours. All night long.
ColtCrazy
03-24-2003, 12:24 AM
somebody cross reference this psycho ip address and location and see if there are any cerial killers loose in that are. Yeesh.
What little they showed on CNN was enough for me. Sad enough as it is.
EagleFan
03-24-2003, 12:40 AM
Wow, I don't even know where to begin, so for once I'll just keep my trap shut. It's sad that people like that even exist.
There has been some good live footage of some of the skirmishes, but with the time difference a lot of that has been late at night, early morning. Also with the Bagdad stuff, they are under direct control of the Iraqis at that point. They are only allowed shots from certain points and in certain directions.
Personally, yes I get lured in by some of the coverage, but it's a war, not a TV event.
GoldenEagle
03-24-2003, 12:46 AM
Im glad CNN is not showing the footage, and I hope they dont show it period. I will not watch if they show it.
stkelly52
03-24-2003, 12:48 AM
I think that another reason that the US media isn't showing the footage is because they have, by far, the most access that they have ever had to a war. They know that having embeded soldiers is a priveledge not a right, and if they don't want to risk losing that access.
Tasan
03-24-2003, 12:57 AM
I cannot hold my anger. I am a longtime poster and reader of this forum, and some might have noticed that I have kept my mouth shut in most of the political and war debates that occur on this board, I do not like the way most deteriorate into name calling and bickering. I cannot hold my tongue on this issue though. As the son of a US Army Vietnam veteran, and having my dad server 15 years in active duty the first 15 years of my life, I cannot abide by any news agency showing and footage of CAPTURED, TORTURED, and EXECUTED soldiers, especially if their families don't even know they've been captured or even killed. Put yourself in one of their places, you are flipping the channels and you pass a station that is showing this, just in flipping and you catch a glance of your WIFE'S HEAD BLOWN OFF. If you want to see the pictures of this, go to www.drudgereport.com and click the God Damned link. I made that mistake. I think we should level the God Damned country for what they did. Yes soldiers die in war, fully understand that. Yes they get captured. But to execute a surrendered, unarmed soldier in your custody is the lowest of low. I say again, kill every one of those FUCKING IRAQI now. I am shaking with anger and I do not care if anyone wants to ban me for this post. Fuck you to any of you people that can't understand the pain and loss you would feel just happening by the image of your dead spouse who is serving their country for you and all of you lowlifes that want this played on TV. Find it on the net where viewing is easily controlled, and where the pics are fairly deep linked from what I've heard. I regret clicking on the link that I did. I sincerely hope every site out there is warning people that they should not look.
Tarkus
03-24-2003, 03:02 AM
I agree with much of what you say (it'd be tough to nuke the whole country though), and I doubt you'll be banned for it. That was relatively tame actually. And I do think most people here agree with not showing the video so don't get down too much because of some insensitive jerks.
Tarkus
User #2735
03-24-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Hyde
Oh yeah, Fritz, your wife left her panties in my bed this morining, your sister left her bra in the back of my car, and your mom told me that she left her dentures under your desk at your office. Just thought you would like to know. Place your bets gentlemen....
A) Angsty teenager who just learned some new insults or...
B) College student who has interpreted their new found freedom as a license to be an ass or....
C) Middle aged loser who is still "Ragin' Against the Machine" (tm)
Fritz
03-24-2003, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by STK
Just slip some ruffies into his Diet Dr. Pepper and he's yours. All night long.
Doctor Doctor!
cthomer5000
03-24-2003, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Hyde
My point is that CNN showed the terror attacks on 9/11 and all of the bombings the US does in Iraq but not that. It just seems too slanted.
Believe me, we didn't see close to all of the 9/11 footage.
JonInMiddleGA
03-24-2003, 06:30 AM
Im glad CNN is not showing the footage, and I hope they dont show it period.
Sad for me to say but I strongly suspect it's just a matter of time before the genie is out of the bottle on the airing of the footage in the U.S. and I'm not sure that anyone, including FoxNews, will resist to the ratings it would generate. If one network airs it (as ABC seemed to indicate it planned to do) the others are very likely to follow IMO.
I hope to God they prove me wrong.
Ben E Lou
03-24-2003, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Sad for me to say but I strongly suspect it's just a matter of time before the genie is out of the bottle on the airing of the footage in the U.S. and I'm not sure that anyone, including FoxNews, will resist to the ratings it would generate. If one network airs it (as ABC seemed to indicate it planned to do) the others are very likely to follow IMO.
I hope to God they prove me wrong. It sounds like the pictures of the dead were rather gory (bullet holes in foreheads of some?). I would hope they don't show that kind of footage. Period.
As far as the interviews, maybe I'm off base here, but after the families are notified, I don't have a big problem with those being shown, (assuming the families are ok with it.) The networks' decision not to show the interviews was their decision, in deference to the families of the victims. (I'm sure the Pentagon strongly suggested it to them, but all five major American news outlets had their option...) My hope is that they continue to show the same respect for the families' wishes.
I do feel it was a MAJOR problem for State-run Iraq TV to show such footage, and probably a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. The networks, be they CNN, ABC, FOX News, CBS, NBC or even Al-Jazeera, are independent operations. They aren't bound by the Geneva Conventions. Kudos to the American networks for showing the class not to show them before the families were notified. Shame on Al-Jazeera. That was utterly heartless. The General who gave the briefing yesterday afternoon/evening gave a very stinging and direct indictment of Al-Jazeera when one of their reporters asked him a question (after answering the question). Good for him.
Can you guys remind me what's going on on Guantanamo ? Didn't we see prisonners ? Wasn't that contrary to Geneva convention ?
Ah, no, better than that : those prisonners are even denied the rights to be war prisonners... strange, strange.
If someone can come up with an explanation, I am ready to listen
Fritz
03-24-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Alf
If someone can come up with an explanation, I am ready to listen
We don't put the ones we execute with a shot to the head on TV.
Tekneek
03-24-2003, 08:38 AM
The Guantanamo Bay situation is something that I can't immediately explain why it is 'different' than this. The difference may be that the 'Taliban' and 'Al-Qaeda' were not a Nation, and the 'rules of war' apply to Nations. If the 'Taliban' were legitimate, they would've had the Afgahnistan seat in the UN, but they were not recognized as the legitimate government. 'Al-Qaeda' is nation-less. So, in reality, it is quite a different situation.
Actually there are guys from various countries and although they couldn't be technically considered prisoner of war, to what kind of rights are they submitted too (even limited ones).
Do they have a lawyer to represent them ?
PS Fritz : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?form=1&term=Fritz
Ben E Lou
03-25-2003, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by Alf
SkyDog definition (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?form=1&term=skydog)
SkyDog
"sky-dawg" Click once to rate this definition: (votes: 6)
The head negro in charge, or so he thinks.
I don't know who submitted this definition (and it clearly applies to OUR SkyDog, no ?), but that must be a real sick and racist person. :confused: Please explain why that must be a "real sick and racist person." I'd love to hear this one....
I just love it when over-sensitive PC-ism creates a boy-who-cried-wolf effect that dulls things when real racism actually does rear its ugly head. :rolleyes:
Fritz
03-25-2003, 05:36 AM
too late...
Balldog
03-25-2003, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by Fritz
We don't put the ones we execute with a shot to the head on TV.
We don't execute enemies who surrender either.
Originally posted by SkyDog
Please explain why that must be a "real sick and racist person." I'd love to hear this one....
I just love it when over-sensitive PC-ism creates a boy-who-cried-wolf effect that dulls things when real racism actually does rear its ugly head. :rolleyes:
Sorry if there is any confustion, but Negro has a very racist connotation in French. Please delete my post.
Alf
Ben E Lou
03-25-2003, 05:53 AM
You apparently haven't read my title:
SkyDog
H.N.I.C.
No harm. No foul.
ice4277
03-25-2003, 10:57 AM
There is nothing worse than people who enjoy watching war footage, especially of things such as this, just for the sake of watching. I can't think of one thing that could possibly be gained from a news or information standpoint by watching this footage. We know they were executed, we know the means, and we know the circumstances. What could possibly be the reason we would need to see it? I don't want to see executed POW's, I don't want to see people falling from the 110th floor of the World Trade Center, I don't want to see Iranians who were gassed by the Iraqis 15 years ago. I think people who do are sick fucks who are watching it purely for entertainment value.
Fidatelo
03-25-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by stkelly52
I think that another reason that the US media isn't showing the footage is because they have, by far, the most access that they have ever had to a war. They know that having embeded soldiers is a priveledge not a right, and if they don't want to risk losing that access.
So how does this make them anything more than an excellent propaganda tool for the army? If the networks are too afraid to air controversial footage because they might have their access taken away then they are an even better tool than a state run station, because they give the illusion of independance.
HornedFrog Purple
03-25-2003, 11:36 AM
Hehe don't worry Alf, this negro doesn't care. ;)
Tekneek
03-25-2003, 12:33 PM
H.N.I.C.... I always thought that was Hockey Night In Canada... ;)
vtbub
03-25-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Alf
Can you guys remind me what's going on on Guantanamo ? Didn't we see prisonners ? Wasn't that contrary to Geneva convention ?
Ah, no, better than that : those prisonners are even denied the rights to be war prisonners... strange, strange.
If someone can come up with an explanation, I am ready to listen
IIRC, The shots of prisoners at Gitmo were of fully hooded men, no face shots were shown, at least in this country. Second, the Pentagon went off on CNN when they had footage of the prisoners on the plane, secured to the floor.
I don't see a double standard here. CNN was airing limited shots of the POW's as early as Sunday night when family was confirming that their son had been captured.
A mother from New Mexico found out that her son was captured by watching satalite Phillipino television.
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