Game of Thrones on HBO

[lordscarlet]

With George R.R. Martin's announcement (http://grrm.livejournal.com/58155.html) (as seen in the original book thread (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=20478)) that the pilot has been approved for filming by HBO, let's start this off with some rampant speculation about good casting. I'm sure they'll actually go with mostly unknowns; the cast will be too large to have more than 1 or 2 known actors. But, this is FOFC, we make stuff up all the time.

EDIT:

Some key characters in A Game of Thrones:


Lord Eddard Stark
Lady Catelyn Stark
Sansa Stark
Arya Stark
Bran Stark
Jon Snow
Tyrion Lannister
Lord Tywin Lannister
Jaime Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
King Robert Baratheon
Theon Greyjoy
Robb Stark
Myrcella Baratheon
Tommen Baratheon
Joffrey Baratheon
Lysa Arryn
Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish
Bronn
Renly Baratheon
Stannis Baratheon
Maester Aemon
Lord Command Mormont
Khal Drogo
Lord Jorah Mormont
Viserys Targeryen


Shew. I'll stop there. Like I said, way too many characters to have big names. :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to speculate on cast. The effects, costumes, sets, etc. will be straining the budget something fierce. If "Rome" had budget problems, this series' budget could be off the charts.

I guess they could use CGI a ton, but, unlike, "Rome", most of which took place in, well, Rome, there are just so many different locations that are so varied in look and feel. You have Winterfell, Kings Landing, the Wall, all that stuff out East with Dany and those are just the "main" locations in the books. (Beyond that is Dorne, Harenhal, The Aerie, Riverrun, The Twins, etc, etc.). It would be sweet to see those locations come to life, but I don't know how they will do it well and in a cost-effective manner.

HBO always seems to do a decent job of getting relatively unknown, yet extremely talented, actors for its shows. I really wasn't familiar with much of anyone (other than a few exceptions) who starred in "The Wire", "Rome", or "Deadwood" and they all had very solid casts. I would imagine that this series would be cast in a similar vein.

The only two "big name" actors I can think of off the top of my head that would be perfect would be Liam Neeson for Ned Stark (there's really no one of note who'd fit better for that role) and Peter Dinklage as Tyrion.

I always pictured Bryden Tully looking almost exactly like Sam Elliot, but he's a pretty minor character and I certainly wouldn't expect that casting. He's just one of the few characters in the books I had always matched up with an actor.

One problem they will encounter will be the fact that a lot of the main characters in these books are children. Children are notoriously hard to cast not only because there are so few good child actors, but because they age between seasons (see, e.g., Walt from "Lost"). I think they will just have to bite the bullet and make all of the kids a bit older and cast actors who appear younger than they are.

[lordscarlet]

That's the benefit of being on FOFC, we don't have a budget. ;)

[lordscarlet]

They have put enough money into everything else, so I think they'll do a good job. I don't think we'll recognize any of the actors, though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I've never read it, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say you all will be disappointed. I doubt that they're going to put as much money into this as it will need to do it right.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

The only way I will be disappointed is if they manage to make the series, it's really done well and then they end up having to cancel it due to money problems. Then I will be disappointed.

If they make it and it turns out to be very good, then so be it. It's not like a poor series is in any way going to tarnish the awesomness that is the series.

That said, I think it's pretty much impossible to translate these books into a successful series. I don't think it is so much a matter of money, though that will be play a big role (i.e., limited sets and the absence of most, if not all, of the battle scenes, many of which are super cool), but rather the books rely on too much subtly to really come across well on TV. I love the complexity of the books, the cast of thousands, etc. You're really asking a lot of your audience to keep track of everything.

What they will inevitibly end up doing is significantly shrinking down the cast of characters, combining multiple characters into one and cutting out certain character all together, and streamlining the plots. While one could easily argue Martin's plots could use some streamlining, there are just so many great moments and characters that will be necessarily lost that it may really take away some of what makes the series so enjoyable.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is what I meant when I said disappointed. I'm sure that they will put 100% effort into it, but with something as massive as this unless the budgets are sky high for years and years, things are going to get cut. And with fans as huge as I've seen on this board many are likely to have parts that they think are crucial cut out.

I know there are a lot rabid fans out there. I probably love this series more than most. I've read/listened to all four books at least three times. Given how little I have left to listen to of "Feast", and the amount of leaves in my yard, I will probably be starting up "A Game of Thrones" yet again on iPod this weekend.

That said, any reasonable person has to accept that you can fit everything that takes place in a 700 page book in 12 episodes (or fewer). Some things are going to have to be cut, some characters are going to have to be written out and some things are going to be changed. That's a given. You just have to have faith that they make the right calls.

For example, look at the LOTR movies. If you include all the director's cuts, those films total around 8-9 hours in length. I don't know how many pages the entire trilogy is, but I doubt it's too much longer than 700 pages. Still, they had to cut scenes out, combine characters, write some out, make some dramatic changes. I thought almost everything they did worked (and, in fact, vastly improved on the original source). I've watched the "making of" DVDs where they explain what they did and why and it all made perfect sense.

Similar choices will have to be made in this series and they will be a lot more significant than what was done for LOTR. You just hope that they make the right choices and it all makes sense. (I have similar concerns about the upcoming "Watchmen" movie. Though I remain hopeful.)

One interesting wrinkle in all of this is that the series isn't done yet. Granted the books and TV series will be two completely different animals, but I wonder how much, if any, one could read into decisions made regarding the TV series. For example, if they decide to go without Brynden Tully or Sandor Clegane or whoever, does that mean that these characters are "disposable" enough that they will not really play a significant role in the upcoming books? I think that would be reading way too much into things, but it's still something to consider.

[lighthousekeeper]

Tyrion Lannister: the dude from Willow.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think GRRM will write the rest of the books based in any way upon the choices that are made for the TV series. *shrug*

[BrianD]

Tyrion Lannister: the dude from Willow.

Val Kilmer? Nah, I don't see it. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

dude i'm way stoked for this series. wayyyyyyyyyyy stoked

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't think GRRM will write the rest of the books based in any way upon the choices that are made for the TV series. *shrug*

I was thinking more in the opposite direction. The choices that are made for the TV series could reflect or could give some indication what type of role, if any, certain characters will, or will not, play in the "end game" of the books.

Like I said, I think that would be reading way too much into things, but it's still something to consider.

[GrantDawg]

I am guessing they will definitely age the Stark children. Martin already said he wished he had started with them a little older. I think they'll have a hard time putting ten year olds in the situations they are put in the books.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am guessing they will definitely age the Stark children. Martin already said he wished he had started with them a little older. I think they'll have a hard time putting ten year olds in the situations they are put in the books.

Agreed. I think that's one of the problems Martin is struggling with at the moment. Given he's scrapped his idea for a 5 year gap between books 3 and 4, he now has a bunch of characters who, presumably, will play a pretty major role in the series but are all pretty young and sort of a ways off from becoming capable.

[Galaril]

I am wondering if George Martin will have finished the series of books beofre the tv series gets to the end as slow as he writes his books in the series.

[lighthousekeeper]

I am guessing they will definitely age the Stark children. Martin already said he wished he had started with them a little older. I think they'll have a hard time putting ten year olds in the situations they are put in the books.

I always just assumed they had a different time scale in the books, so someone who was written as a 10 year old was the equivalent of a 16 year old in our world.

[3ric]

Did anyone see that "Carcetti" from "The Wire" has been cast as Littlefinger?

[MrBug708]

Less than a week til it premiers. I saw that 720,000 people tuned in to watch the preview last week, hopefully that is a good sign

[MrBug708]

With the Game of Thrones set to air this coming week, it’s a new property that is certainly going to help boost HBO and their revenue. According to this piece over at The Hollywood Reporter, HBO is indicating that company is expecting to top $1 billion in international revenue this year, which is up 50% from what it was three years ago. And a good part of that is Game of Thrones, which is now the channels best selling series abroad ever, with episodes getting $2.5 million each, which is 50% more than the Soprano’s international pricing from a few years before.
“We have significantly accelerated our international thrust over the past few years,” said HBO CEO Bill Nelson. “We have broken through at a much, much higher level than in the past, and have found that our programming not only crosses geographical boundaries but cultural ones as well.”
The international market continues to grow in importance across many media markets and HBO is seeing that as a big win for them. Their subscriber rate in the US is essentially a non-growth area, having remained flat at 40 million or thereabouts for the last couple of years. On the international side, it’s reporting that it’s grown to more than 42 million subscribers, which is a significant increase from its 2008 numbers at 28 million. The original programming continues to be the selling point and the company is also indicating that a lot of its subscriber growth is coming because of its streaming service which they’re considering to be an essential and vital part of being a subscriber.

HBO looks to be doing well financially, which bodes well for the series lasting the whole seven books and forcing Martin to actually write the books

[MrBug708]

Nifty Cheat Sheet from the Times on teh characters

The Cheat Sheet: 'Game of Thrones' - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-game-of-thrones-cheat-htmlstory,0,6734586.htmlstory)

First time I saw Tywin's character, I think he looks the part well

[DaddyTorgo]

I literally cannot wait for this damn show to premiere. Like...cannot wait.

I'm just glad that my week this week looks to be relatively "standard" with nothing unusual hopefully cropping up so that this weekend can get here sooner!!

[Thomkal]

<----doesn't have HBO. :(

[DaddyTorgo]

<----doesn't have HBO. :(

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo.

Friends with HBO?

Barring that you know they'll get it out on BluRay and you can watch it then...assuming you're scrupulous and don't pirate it.

[MrBug708]

<----doesn't have HBO. :(

Sign up for three months?

[cschex]

Sign up for three months?

That's what I've done, effective today. Can't emphasize enough how excited I am for this

[cougarfreak]

I ordered HBO this weekend for this exact reason.

[MrBug708]

And I bumped this thread over the otehr one since this was more specific to the tv show rather than the book series. Just need a thread title change :)

[Thomkal]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo.

Friends with HBO?

Barring that you know they'll get it out on BluRay and you can watch it then...assuming you're scrupulous and don't pirate it.

We had HBO for a long time here, and almost never watched it, add that to financial difficulties, and we can't really justify the cost just for one show. So I'm mostly content to wait for the DVD to come out (with someone hopefully offering it a better price than the initial cost)

[wade moore]

I considered getting HBO just for this, but their pricing is absurd. I'm not paying $45 for one tv show.

[Glengoyne]

I considered getting HBO just for this, but their pricing is absurd. I'm not paying $45 for one tv show.

+1

[tyketime]

I considered getting HBO just for this, but their pricing is absurd. I'm not paying $45 for one tv show.
What? Why so much? I thought it was about half that price...

[wade moore]

What? Why so much? I thought it was about half that price...

$15/month, 3 months... $45...

[bronconick]

Netflix/someone will have it in a few months when they release it on DVD. I've had to wait a decade for half a book, I can wait half a year to watch the tv series.

[DaddyTorgo]

Netflix/someone will have it in a few months when they release it on DVD. I've had to wait a decade for half a book, I can wait half a year to watch the tv series.

This

[wade moore]

Netflix/someone will have it in a few months when they release it on DVD. I've had to wait a decade for half a book, I can wait half a year to watch the tv series.

Yeah, just annoying that it will be DVD rather than streaming.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I loved the books and everything, but anytime I see preview, I can't help thinking that it looks just like any one of the low budget medieval movies you'd typically see on the SciFi channel. Or maybe highbrow Xena?

I don't get that at all. I think it looks fantastic. Much, much more like the quality of the LOTR movies than Xena.

[tyketime]

I saw this preview in the Philly paper:

By Ellen Gray
Philadelphia Daily News
Daily News TV Critic
GAME OF THRONES. 9 p.m. Sunday, HBO. WINTER is coming.

And for once, it's not just TV weather-people who are breathless with excitement.

The motto of the House of Stark, whose members figure among the major players in George R.R. Martin's best-selling fantasy series "A Song of Ice and Fire," warning of an impending cold that will be much more than a snap, is also a rallying cry to Martin's fans, who've been waiting to see his Seven Kingdoms come to life in Sunday's premiere of HBO's new series "Game of Thrones."

I'm a straggler on the road to Westeros - as I write this, I'm only 462 pages, or a little more than halfway, into the series' first book, Game of Thrones - so I'm probably never going to be able to hold my own in a fanboy/girl discussion of the modern-fantasy genre, much of which until now has struck me as warmed-over Tolkien.

I think I can speak, though, to those HBO subscribers who wonder why the network that brought them "The Sopranos" and "Deadwood" and "The Wire" is trying to interest them in fictional kings and warlords, in direwolves and wildlings and other things that go bump in the night:

Because it can.

Because a great TV series, like a great book, opens up an unfamiliar world and accords it enough respect that we can come to see ourselves in strangers, be they middle-aged mobsters, Wild West saloon-keepers or West Baltimore drug dealers.
Or even Eddard Stark (Sean Bean), lord of Winterfell and the boyhood friend of King Robert Baratheon (Mark Addy), whose kingdom he helped win and which he must now help guard from threats without and within.

It's giving little away to say that there's a wicked queen (Lena Headey), a lecherous dwarf (Peter Dinklage, seemingly the only possible choice for a pivotal role that demands much, much more than mere lack of height) and a scheming knight (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau), and that these three are siblings.

Or that Stark has some of the most interesting children to be seen on HBO since Meadow and A.J. Soprano.

There's also murder and intrigue and a considerable amount of sex (more about the sex later) and a story that in the six episodes I've seen sticks to Martin's book without feeling like a slavish re-enactment.

It helps that there's a story worth sticking to.

Unlike HBO's "True Blood," in which creator Alan Ball took a not-particularly-distinguished series about a telepath who attracts vampires and massaged it into something people who wouldn't be caught dead reading about the undead might be willing to watch, "Game of Thrones" is a show worth watching based on a book worth reading.

(So far, at least. Maybe I'll have made it through the fourth book of Martin's series by the time the long-awaited No. 5, A Dance with Dragons, is published July 12.)

"One incredible luxury that Dan [executive producer D.B. Weiss] and I have had working on this is that we're not making it up as we go along," executive producer David Benioff told reporters in January. "We're going into it knowing that we have an incredibly well-mapped-out, well-plotted story line that's going to continue for, if we're lucky, season after season, and George has already done so much of the work for us."

Martin, a longtime sci-fi and fantasy author who spent time in the trenches himself as a script writer - his TV credits include, not surprisingly, "Beauty and the Beast" - even wrote the eighth episode of "Games."

"It had been 10 years since I wrote a teleplay or a screenplay," Martin said, "so when the time came for me to sit down and do my script, 'Boy, I hope I still know how to do this.' What do you know? I did. The biggest challenge was actually mastering the new software, because screenwriting programs had changed."

"There's part of me that would love to be more involved, that would love to write several episodes per season and be there every day on the set with these guys. On the other hand, I still have the books to finish, and the books are 1,500 pages long and take me years, and I have a mob outside of my house with pitchforks and torches that are already very irritated about Book 5 being late, and after that, I have Books 6 and 7," he said. "I think I better stay where I am and finish the books because, of course, the real scary thing is if these guys [Benioff and Weiss] catch up with me."

This being HBO, that's not the only scary thing, of course.

I did promise to tell you about the sex, didn't I?

Parents who wonder whether their fantasy-mad kids are ready for a fleshed-out version of "Game of Thrones" that lingers longer than Martin tends to on his sex scenes (and is at least as graphic in the choreography of his often far-more-detailed descriptions of violence) should know that the customs of the country seem to run to rear-entry copulation (always a boon to premium cable, which likes to keep the breasts out front where everyone can see them), and that brothels get visited pretty regularly.

Much of this applies to other HBO series, but how many kids are demanding to watch, say, "Boardwalk Empire," a show about Atlantic City during Prohibition?

"Game of Thrones" isn't "Harry Potter," and no one involved is pretending it is.
As Benioff puts it, "George's fantasy is not a for-children fantasy. It's sexy and it's violent and it's brutal, and none of the characters are safe.

"And, truly, none of the characters. Characters that you might think are going to go on for six seasons meet an early end, and you think of all those shows that have done that kind of putting-character-in-jeopardy drama, who has done it best? It's been HBO in 'The Sopranos.' And one of the things that was so exciting about tuning in to 'The Sopranos' or 'The Wire' is you never knew who was going to get whacked. We're not a gangster show, but it's got elements of that within it."

So, winter is coming. If you're old enough to feel a chill at the thought, you're probably old enough for this bedtime story.

[JAG]

Netflix/someone will have it in a few months when they release it on DVD. I've had to wait a decade for half a book, I can wait half a year to watch the tv series.

That was my thought as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Cool note:

"All of the dogs we received were from rescues and some from private parties that felt that they couldn't deal with the dogs anymore, because they were rambunctious big dogs," said Warren.

The dogs were such a hit among the cast that 15-year-old Sophie Turner (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3849842/), who plays Sansa, adopted the dog who plays her direwolf, Lady, after production had wrapped.

Game of Thrones: 10 Secrets About HBO's Adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-04/game-of-thrones-10-secrets-about-hbos-adaptation-of-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-by-george-rr-martin/)

[MrBug708]

Martin agreed. "If I was in charge, I would split Storm of Swords into two seasons," he said. "I'd even make the second season a little longer. Have them give us 12 hours instead of 10… When you hit Storm of Swords, it's 500 pages longer than [the second book] in manuscript. If you don't divide that one into two seasons, then you are going to have to do some severe cutting of plots and subplots."

While I agree with the premise, I dismiss it as Martin wanting more time to write his books

[Honolulu_Blue]

The New York Times Review of this series is causing a bit of a sitr.

The review is pretty horrible written and borderline offensive.

FYI, TK, as a woman, who is alive, you shouldn't be watching this or reading this series.

‘Game of Thrones’ Begins Sunday on HBO - Review - NYTimes.com (http://tv.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/arts/television/game-of-thrones-begins-sunday-on-hbo-review.html?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto)

Here is an excerpt:

"Like “The Tudors” and “The Borgias” on Showtime and the “Spartacus” series on Starz, “Game of Thrones,” is a costume-drama sexual hopscotch, even if it is more sophisticated than its predecessors. It says something about current American attitudes toward sex that with the exception of the lurid and awful “Californication,” nearly all eroticism on television is past tense. The imagined historical universe of “Game of Thrones” gives license for unhindered bed-jumping — here sibling intimacy is hardly confined to emotional exchange.

The true perversion, though, is the sense you get that all of this illicitness has been tossed in as a little something for the ladies, out of a justifiable fear, perhaps, that no woman alive would watch otherwise. While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first. “Game of Thrones” is boy fiction patronizingly turned out to reach the population’s other half."

[ISiddiqui]

FWIW, it appears the writer may have been a woman herself and is writing her impression (is Ginia a woman's name?)

[DaddyTorgo]

The New York Times Review of this series is causing a bit of a sitr.

The review is pretty horrible written and borderline offensive.

FYI, TK, as a woman, who is alive, you shouldn't be watching this or reading this series.

‘Game of Thrones’ Begins Sunday on HBO - Review - NYTimes.com (http://tv.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/arts/television/game-of-thrones-begins-sunday-on-hbo-review.html?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto)

Here is an excerpt:

"Like “The Tudors” and “The Borgias” on Showtime and the “Spartacus” series on Starz, “Game of Thrones,” is a costume-drama sexual hopscotch, even if it is more sophisticated than its predecessors. It says something about current American attitudes toward sex that with the exception of the lurid and awful “Californication,” nearly all eroticism on television is past tense. The imagined historical universe of “Game of Thrones” gives license for unhindered bed-jumping — here sibling intimacy is hardly confined to emotional exchange.

The true perversion, though, is the sense you get that all of this illicitness has been tossed in as a little something for the ladies, out of a justifiable fear, perhaps, that no woman alive would watch otherwise. While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first. “Game of Thrones” is boy fiction patronizingly turned out to reach the population’s other half."






What a crappy review from a hater. Every other review I've read has been overwhelmingly positive. The NYT is the last bastion of a dying institution (print newspaper) anyways.

[DaddyTorgo]

Interview: Game of Thrones author George R.R. Martin - HitFix.com (http://hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-game-of-thrones-author-george-r-r-martin) - (by Alan Sepinwall)

Review: HBOs Game of Thrones an epic, mature, well-crafted fantasy series - HitFix.com (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/review-hbos-game-of-thrones-an-epic-mature-well-crafted-fantasy-series)

[Honolulu_Blue]

FWIW, it appears the writer may have been a woman herself and is writing her impression (is Ginia a woman's name?)

Yes, it is a woman. I am not sure what difference that makes when she's making claims about "no woman alive would" watch or read. As a man, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable stating what "no man alive would" or would not do.

[Honolulu_Blue]

What a crappy review from a hater. Every other review I've read has been overwhelmingly positive. The NYT is the last bastion of a dying institution (print newspaper) anyways.

The review on Slate is actually quite a bit worse. The guy admits that he hates fantasy and decides to take the series to task because of it.

Here is the one from Slate and excerpt:

http://www.slate.com/id/2291119/

Thus does the reviewer feel daunted to face an old nemesis at a late hour. You see, Game of Thrones—adapted by David Benioff and Dan Weiss from a series of novels by George R.R. Martin—is quasi-medieval, dragon-ridden fantasy crap. That's not a comment on its quality but a definition of its type. The reviewer happens to have an anti-weakness for that general sensibility and those armor-clad generic trappings. Hey, his loss, he knows, but, for instance, he cannot trust his taste to tell him if the Harry Potter books are written well. An undergraduate attempt to learn to read Middle English led to naps in multiple Chaucer seminars. He recalls the emotional pain he suffered one lunch period back in the Reagan Era—the pain of wasting the time experimenting with icosahedral dice. Once, bowing to peer pressure, he lyingly implied that he thought Peter Jackson's adaptation of Lord of the Rings to be in the same league as Lawrence of Arabia, when the honest answer was, "I don't care." Many, many years ago, before escaping the provinces, he was horribly unchivalrous in canceling a date at the last minute. Word was going around that the lady in question made like a serving wench at many a Renaissance Festival, and he called off the plans for their Olive Garden rendezvous. Sorry.



Since it hasn't been aired yet, I haven't seen this. It could be bad. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who gives the show a fair, honest review and actually critiques it legitimately. I have read some positive reviews and some less so, all of which were honest and well written.

[DaddyTorgo]

Writing a critical review about a show in genre that you admit (in the review!) that you're biased against is just stupid. I give that no weight at all, and I would presume any reader with two braincells to rub together would do the same.

As far as the woman above re: the sex, see Sepinwall's take on the sex:

There's also abundant violence (it's like a masterclass in beheading techniques) and sex (particularly in, but far from limited to, the scenes with Daenerys and her primitive new husband, played by Jason Momoa). It's an adult series in every possible way. But where a comparable show like Starz's new "Camelot" might throw in the nudity just as a lure to get people to watch, the sex scenes in "Game of Thrones" almost always have major narrative value, whether they're establishing a foreign culture or telling us more about a character who plays things close to the vest outside the bedroom.

[MrBug708]

HBO: Game of Thrones: Viewer's Guide (http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/)

Pretty cool map and even better family lineage

[sabotai]

I've read a few bad reviews for the show, and they all are of the "I hate fantasy, therefore, I hate this" variety. I have yet to see a review from someone who likes fantasy and/or read and like the books that was negative.

[Shkspr]

While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first.

While I do not doubt there are women in this world who read books like Ms. Moore's, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up at her book club and specifically requested to read "Birds of America".

[terpkristin]

FYI, TK, as a woman, who is alive, you shouldn't be watching this or reading this series.

But if I were a dead woman, it'd be OK. :D ;)

Yeah, that review is nuts.

Funny, I've read the books and never thought of them as a vague global warming horror story. And nor do I think keeping track of the principals requires much skill. And while I've read The Hobbit and AGoT, I've never read the latest Lorrie Moore.

Bad writing, bad pesudo-journalism, giving a bad name to women.

/tk

[GrantDawg]

Anyone catch "Chuck" on Monday? His opening line: "Eddard, don't give your children direwolves. That's crazy!"

[DaddyTorgo]

Anyone catch "Chuck" on Monday? His opening line: "Eddard, don't give your children direwolves. That's crazy!"

Must have missed the opening line...that's awesome though!!

[Chief Rum]

Anyone catch "Chuck" on Monday? His opening line: "Eddard, don't give your children direwolves. That's crazy!"

Wow, really? lol...that's great. What was the context?

[GrantDawg]

Wow, really? lol...that's great. What was the context?


He was reading a book (apparently the first one, they don't really show) and just blurts out the comment to Sarah.

[DaddyTorgo]

T-minus 7hrs 56mins

[DaddyTorgo]

2hrs 19mins till the 15 minute pre-show (whatever that will include)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CANNOT WAIT!!!!!!!!

[Noop]

I have heard mention of "A Song of Ice and Fire" on this board before but assumed it wasn't for me. However on Twitter this morning I noticed A Game of Thrones as a trending topic and decided to investigate it. I stumbled upon a preview of the show on HBO.com and was immediately drawn to the show.

Wikipedia was then my next destination where I did some background on the show in order to get familiar. I am eager to watch this show as HBO has always had my respect with regard to their series. With all of that being said you can count me in as one who is excited and will be following faithfully.

I will give my thoughts on the first episode Monday or Tuesday depending on work.

Noop

[DaddyTorgo]

Cool - the show is attracting non-core fans!!

[DaddyTorgo]

13:30...

[DaddyTorgo]

3:30!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

GAME ON!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Poor Jon Arryn

[cschex]

Viserys is spot on

[DaddyTorgo]

Viserys is spot on

Seriously.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wondering what the hook at the end of the first episode is going to be to entice people to tune in next week...

[DaddyTorgo]

Sean Bean has done great in making me forget that he was Boromir. Damn damn good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Really? They're going to shoehorn this into the last 4 minutes of the first episode? Wowsers. Makes sense, but I didn't think they'd get to it...

[Chief Rum]

Really? They're going to shoehorn this into the last 4 minutes of the first episode? Wowsers. Makes sense, but I didn't think they'd get to it...

I thought that was well done, to end it like that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh I thought it was well done too, and it makes sense in terms of like, ending a very exposition-heavy episode with some action and a "WOW" to get people to tune in next week...I was just looking at the time and figuring there was no way they were going to get to it -- very impressed with the script that they managed to get to it and also introduce so many of the characters in that period of time.

[cougarfreak]

That was my first "hook" for the book, so I assumed they'd end it with that this week. Good show.

[Chief Rum]

Oh I thought it was well done too, and it makes sense in terms of like, ending a very exposition-heavy episode with some action and a "WOW" to get people to tune in next week...I was just looking at the time and figuring there was no way they were going to get to it -- very impressed with the script that they managed to get to it and also introduce so many of the characters in that period of time.

Actually, just like the book, that's a very good hook. You're set up in the book (and in the show) to like Bran; he's a very likeable character. An ending like this is the first clue for those not familiar with Martin's novels of his calling card--his seeming willingness to kill off, maim, hurt or change just about any character in his story, regardless of importance to the reader's feelings.

[DaddyTorgo]

Actually, just like the book, that's a very good hook. You're set up in the book (and in the show) to like Bran; he's a very likeable character. An ending like this is the first clue for those not familiar with Martin's novels of his calling card--his seeming willingness to kill off, maim, hurt or change just about any character in his story, regardless of importance to the reader's feelings.

Dude - you're misunderstanding me.

I agree that it's a great hook.

I was just saying that I was surprised that they managed to fit it in the first episode is all. Seemed like time was flying by. That's all.

[Chief Rum]

Dude - you're misunderstanding me.

I agree that it's a great hook.

I was just saying that I was surprised that they managed to fit it in the first episode is all. Seemed like time was flying by. That's all.

Oh, no, I don't misunderstand you. I was just making another statement on top of yours. Not meant to contradict.

[Chief Rum]

It's 10 episodes, I believe, too--even with as relatively short as AGOT is, they're going to need to squeeze in a lot each episode.

BTW, I was surprised (unless I missed it) that Rickard was never mentioned or shown, so much as I recall. I realize he is little more than a baby at this point, but I would have thought we would at least see him.

I think the only reference to him even in abstract was Jon speaking of the 5 (legitamite) Stark children at the direwolf scene.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's 10 episodes, I believe, too--even with as relatively short as AGOT is, they're going to need to squeeze in a lot each episode.

BTW, I was surprised (unless I missed it) that Rickard was never mentioned or shown, so much as I recall. I realize he is little more than a baby at this point, but I would have thought we would at least see him.

I think the only reference to him even in abstract was Jon speaking of the 5 (legitamite) Stark children at the direwolf scene.

He was seen - wasn't that him sitting on the beam when Bran was shooting arrows?

[GrantDawg]

Overall, I enjoyed it. I think they did well with casting for the most part. I don't like the casting of Cat (too old. She was supposed to be still on the edge of child-bearing, and she is about 50 on the show), and not very attactive. Dany is also worrying me a bit. She looks the part, but the acting was very stiff. Her character is so important that I hope it was just that she was trying to play scared, and she'll be able to not be robot-like as the show goes on.

I hope that people who haven't read the books don't get lost as it goes, because there isn't going to be a whole lot of time to flesh out the plots and motives going on. I imagine there are somethings that will be cut off and simplified, but still there is a lot of moving pieces in this story to keep up with.

[Chief Rum]

He was seen - wasn't that him sitting on the beam when Bran was shooting arrows?

Was it? I'll need to watch again and see.

[GrantDawg]

He was seen - wasn't that him sitting on the beam when Bran was shooting arrows?


Yes.

[cschex]

He was seen - wasn't that him sitting on the beam when Bran was shooting arrows?

Yep, and it's his hair Robert ruffles when he's saying hello to the Starks

[GrantDawg]

Oh, and the magister is supposed to be fatter than the king. I guess they went another direction with that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh, and the magister is supposed to be fatter than the king. I guess they went another direction with that.

Fatter than Robert?? I'm not sure such a thing is possible. Dude is hefty!!

[cschex]

Speaking of Robert, Mark Addy may not be as tall as Robert is in the books, but I love him in this role. Honestly, I thought he stole his scenes with Ned.

[MrBug708]

Great episode. Joffery didn't say anything during this episode, but I certainly wanted to smack his face. I didn't see Tommen either

[DaddyTorgo]

Great episode. Joffery didn't say anything during this episode, but I certainly wanted to smack his face. I didn't see Tommen either

He wasn't there when they got out of the carriage? Thought he was, right next to Myrcella...

[MrBug708]

He might have been, just didnt notice him then

[Vince, Pt. II]

My impressions, in no particular order...

The woman playing Catelyn is too old.
Khal Drogo, Arya, Viserys and Petyr Baelish are simply fantastic. Spot on with the casting there.
I love the actor who is playing Robert, but I was disappointed to see him wearing a sword at Winterfell. Also, his hair seems like it needs to be a darker black - that is sort of the main calling card differentiating his bastard children from Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen.
I was quite disappointed that Cat wasn't pushing Ned Stark to accept the position as Robert's Hand. It's mostly cosmetic, but it didn't feel right.

Very impressed with the show, and am really excited about forthcoming episodes.

[DaddyTorgo]

My impressions, in no particular order...

The woman playing Catelyn is too old.
Khal Drogo, Arya, Viserys and Petyr Baelish are simply fantastic. Spot on with the casting there.
I love the actor who is playing Robert, but I was disappointed to see him wearing a sword at Winterfell. Also, his hair seems like it needs to be a darker black - that is sort of the main calling card differentiating his bastard children from Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen.
I was quite disappointed that Cat wasn't pushing Ned Stark to accept the position as Robert's Hand. It's mostly cosmetic, but it didn't feel right.
Very impressed with the show, and am really excited about forthcoming episodes.

Everyone's saying Cat is too old, but I don't buy it - frankly I just think it's sexist.

Ned in the books is 35 and is being played by 50 year old (and wrinkly) Sean Bean. The kids are all aged up a few years too. No reason Cat shouldn't be aged-up to 50ish also, and the actress looks fine for that age.

[Chief Rum]

I agree, I like Catelyn just fine.

Okay, I know I missed Rickard. How did I miss Baelish? Which scene was he in? I can't recall if he made the trip north to Winterfell in the book, and I wasn't even thinking of him while watching the show tonight.

[CrimsonFox]

Does EVERYONE except mer have HBO? :(

I'm really impressed with some of the cast so far. Bean is a gimme to put in a fantasy king thing thanks to Boromir. Peter Dinklage is AWESOME! He's amazing in everything I've seen him in, especially The Station Agent.

Mark Addy too is great. He's wasted on Yes, Dear or whatever. He was better in The Full Monty.

[JPhillips]

I haven't read the books, but enjoyed the premiere. My favorite part of the night, though, was the commercial for HBOGo. Every episode of every series streaming!

[terpkristin]

Baelish shouldn't have been in it, he didn't go to Winterfell. I didn't see him last night...did somebody say he was in it?

[GrantDawg]

I agree, I like Catelyn just fine.

Okay, I know I missed Rickard. How did I miss Baelish? Which scene was he in? I can't recall if he made the trip north to Winterfell in the book, and I wasn't even thinking of him while watching the show tonight.


He wasn't on the show last night. Someone was projecting I believe. The problem with Cat is, she is supposed to be a rival of Cersi. A little older and not quite as beautiful, but she is supposed to be more of a contemporary. This actress looks more like her mom. That is not sexist, it changes the dynamic. I also agree that I wish they hadn't changed the fact she pushes Eddard to take the job of Hand. It makes you wonder if they are going to change her character completely. At least her little look at Jon suggests she might still show him disdain.

[aran]

I enjoyed it. There was a hell of a lot of nudity though. I wasn't really expecting it to be such a near-constant thing. They didn't have to be so explicit, though I guess there is a place for that kind of thing in the book.

[wade moore]

I enjoyed it. There was a hell of a lot of nudity though. I wasn't really expecting it to be such a near-constant thing. They didn't have to be so explicit, though I guess there is a place for that kind of thing in the book.

Blah, sorry to hear this.

May sound silly to say that, but my wife isn't big on nudity/sex in shows, so likely I'm going to have to watch this solo. Was really hoping it would be a show she would enjoy.

[cschex]

Yeah, I agree that there was more nudity than I was expecting, though I know that the "sex/gore" angle is something that HBO is using to sell to certain groups in order to attract viewers. I thought it didn't detract from the story, but I would have preferred less.

[aran]

Wade: There are at least two scenes that show sex in a pretty savage fashion (there's an orgy scene) and probably 5 or 6 that have some combination of topless women and bare ass. You probably see 15 different women topless throughout the episode. Definitely not the kind of thing you'd want to watch with someone who doesn't like seeing partial nudity and sex in movies.

[cschex]

Does anyone know when we might have rating numbers? I want to know when I can start getting my hopes up for a 2nd season

[wade moore]

Wade: There are at least two scenes that show sex in a pretty savage fashion (there's an orgy scene) and probably 5 or 6 that have some combination of topless women and bare ass. You probably see 15 different women topless throughout the episode. Definitely not the kind of thing you'd want to watch with someone who doesn't like seeing partial nudity and sex in movies.

Yeah, and we're not even close to some of the stuff with Dany obviously.

Ahwell, such is life.

Deadwood got to be too much for her, so yeah, I'll be watching solo.

[DaddyTorgo]

I haven't read the books, but enjoyed the premiere. My favorite part of the night, though, was the commercial for HBOGo. Every episode of every series streaming!

What?!?! I must have missed that.

As far as someone who hadn't read the books - how well did you find yourself following everything? I started thinking when I woke up this morning that maybe the book needed a voiceover/flashback to quickly summarize the history of say the Rebellion & the Targaryn's in exile and stuff. Be curious to hear if you felt like...lost with anything?

[DaddyTorgo]

Baelish shouldn't have been in it, he didn't go to Winterfell. I didn't see him last night...did somebody say he was in it?

He was in the "this season on GoT" bits though...

[Bad-example]

Just plain bad casting on Cat and especially Arya Horseface. Still, a strong opener.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just plain bad casting on Cat and especially Arya Horseface. Still, a strong opener.

While Arya doesn't look "horsefaced", I thought she was brilliant. I am not sure if she even had a line in the first episode, but she nailed the esseance of Arya in every single scene she was in. I can't wait to see more from her.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, and we're not even close to some of the stuff with Dany obviously.

Ahwell, such is life.

Deadwood got to be too much for her, so yeah, I'll be watching solo.

There is a lot of nudity. But, there is almost always a lot of nudity on HBO shows. Rome, True Blood, Deadwood, etc, etc.

For what it is worth, my wife watched and loved it and she's not huge on all of that kind of thing. Then again, she's a big big fan of the books, so I am sure that has something to do with it.

Besides, didn't you read the New York Times review? All of the sex and nudity was added especially for the womens.

[PraetorianX]

Just plain bad casting on Cat and especially Arya Horseface. Still, a strong opener.

Cat is open to debate I suppose, personally I didn't mind much but I can understand.

Arya though? Even in the books she's not exactly a looker you know, hell, half the time people think she's a boy! As it is, I thought she did a very good job.

[wade moore]

There is a lot of nudity. But, there is almost always a lot of nudity on HBO shows. Rome, True Blood, Deadwood, etc, etc.

For what it is worth, my wife watched and loved it and she's not huge on all of that kind of thing. Then again, she's a big big fan of the books, so I am sure that has something to do with it.

Besides, didn't you read the New York Times review? All of the sex and nudity was added especially for the womens.

Yeah, this is why I was happy and sad to see this on HBO. I knew it would be done well, but I knew it would focus on the sex.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, this is why I was happy and sad to see this on HBO. I knew it would be done well, but I knew it would focus on the sex.

I think it's a bit of a reach, and wrong, to say that the show "focuses" on the sex. It certainly doesn't shy away from the sex/nudity, but it most certainly is not the "focus" of the show.

[JPhillips]

What?!?! I must have missed that.

As far as someone who hadn't read the books - how well did you find yourself following everything? I started thinking when I woke up this morning that maybe the book needed a voiceover/flashback to quickly summarize the history of say the Rebellion & the Targaryn's in exile and stuff. Be curious to hear if you felt like...lost with anything?

I found it pretty easy to follow. Ned is the good guy, the incest twins are bad, the guy with the pony tail is really bad, the King is good, but irresponsible, etc. I have no idea how well this correlates to the books, but it was easy for me to understand/get in to.

[timmynausea]

While Arya doesn't look "horsefaced", I thought she was brilliant. I am not sure if she even had a line in the first episode, but she nailed the esseance of Arya in every single scene she was in. I can't wait to see more from her.

Agreed completely. The girl playing Arya was the one thing that really exceeded expectations for me. Tyrion, Robert and Visyres were the others I was impressed with, but Arya most of all.

[wade moore]

I think it's a bit of a reach, and wrong, to say that the show "focuses" on the sex. It certainly doesn't shy away from the sex/nudity, but it most certainly is not the "focus" of the show.
ok, fine.. "highlights"... "makes prominent".. however you want to put it, it is more of a focus in the show than it was in the books.

I'm saying that without having seen the show fwiw.

[cougarfreak]

ok, fine.. "highlights"... "makes prominent".. however you want to put it, it is more of a focus in the show than it was in the books.

I'm saying that without having seen the show fwiw.

[/LIST]

Agreed, I thought it was overdone. Loved the show, but there seems to be more focus on the nudity in the show vs. the books.

[Honolulu_Blue]

ok, fine.. "highlights"... "makes prominent".. however you want to put it, it is more of a focus in the show than it was in the books.

I'm saying that without having seen the show fwiw.

I think I will have to see more than one episode before I can agree or disagree with that statement. In fact, I believe the only scene with nudity in the first episode that was not in the books was the scene with Tyrion and the whores.

I am pretty sure that the Dany/Viserys scene in the bath was in the book, since Viserys is creepy and believe in the book he mentioned how based on the traditional Targaryen ways she would be his wife, everything at the Dothroki wedding and the scene with Dany and Drogo were in the book, and, obviously, the scene with Cersei and Jamie was in the book (though I can't rightly recall whether there was any nudity in that scene or not).

Granted, they could have cut those scenes or shot them in way that didn't show any nudity, but they were all in the books.

There is actually quite a bit of sex/nudity in the books and some of it gratuitous (e.g., the Dany lesbian scene, the Cersei lesbian scene, etc.). I actually don't really like them since I don't think George is very good at writing those scenes. Everything is sopping wet and there are glistening manhoods and things.

That said, a friend of mine wrote an email and part of his reactions to the show was that he thought that there was excessive nudity as well. It is definitely a legitimate gripe. And, like I said, something HBO tends to do with it shows. It's been doing it ever since waaaay back in the day on shows like "First & Ten". It's like they have to show breasts in an effort to say, "Hey! You're watching a show on cable. It's HBO, not TV. See, look, tittays!"

I think the worse offender I can recall was that HBO show "Tell me You Love Me." There, it was a combination of gratuitous nudity and excessive and completely unncessary "foul" language. I am by no means prudish or anything, and I know that show was supposed to be "real' and about adult relationships, but it felt like they were trying waaay too hard to be "adult."

[Chief Rum]

I found it pretty easy to follow. Ned is the good guy, the incest twins are bad, the guy with the pony tail is really bad, the King is good, but irresponsible, etc. I have no idea how well this correlates to the books, but it was easy for me to understand/get in to.

Heh. :D

JPhillips, you will soon find that there is no good or bad, but only individual characters, some mostly good, some mostly bad, some conflicted between the two, and some that go from one spectrum to the other. It's a characteristic of Martin's stories.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. :D

JPhillips, you will soon find that there is no good or bad, but only individual characters, some mostly good, some mostly bad, some conflicted between the two, and some that go from one spectrum to the other. It's a characteristic of Martin's stories.

Beat me to it. :)

Though there is no small amount of rampant forehead-smacking stubborn stupidity with some of the characters.

edit: Oh. And the actor playing Dany has one smoking hot ass.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Heh. :D

JPhillips, you will soon find that there is no good or bad, but only individual characters, some mostly good, some mostly bad, some conflicted between the two, and some that go from one spectrum to the other. It's a characteristic of Martin's stories.

While that's mainly true, especially for the main characters, there are a few characters who are, without a doubt, simply "bad" or "evil". Martin has his share of "monster" characters who are really completely unredeemable. That's not a complaint mind you.

[Chief Rum]

While that's mainly true, especially for the main characters, there are a few characters who are, without a doubt, simply "bad" or "evil". Martin has his share of "monster" characters who are really completely unredeemable. That's not a complaint mind you.

Even those characters I would describe as simply focused on particular objectives. They're not simply bad or evil, as much as they have a very narrow focus for what they want to get, and they lack a clear moral compass with respect to how best to achieve that focus.

Certainly, there are unredeemable characters. But Martin does that (adjust these characters' focus or appreciation for morality) enough that you can never trust him with any of them. And frankly, some of them die before they get the chance to change.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Even those characters I would describe as simply focused on particular objectives. They're not simply bad or evil, as much as they have a very narrow focus for what they want to get, and they lack a clear moral compass with respect to how best to achieve that focus.

Certainly, there are unredeemable characters. But Martin does that (adjust these characters' focus or appreciation for morality) enough that you can never trust him with any of them. And frankly, some of them die before they get the chance to change.

I guess it depends on a deeper, more philosophical, discussion on the nature/definition of "evil" and whether it exists at all.

That discussion aside, I firmly consider, at the very least, the following characters to be "evil" or at least such complete vile dickheads that the vast majority of their actions in the novels could never really be justified:

Joffery, Visreys, Gregor Clegane, Roos Bolton's bastard son. Also charcters like Rorge, Biter, many of the Brave Companions and many of Gregor Clegane's men. The others who are on the fringe of being "evil", would be Roos Bolton himself. Granted he could be one with a "very narrow focus" and is simply playing the game for power, but he's a fucker. Same with Walder Frey. Those two, however, are not quite in the same category of the initial list.

Granted, most of those are very minor characters and we are talking about a handful out of a cast of thousands.

[Noop]

I wonder why this wasn't made into a movie a la Lord of the Rings. I didn't even notice an hour has passed. I have no issue with the nudity and when I saw the pale blond haired girl I said to myself I want to see her naked. I love all the political intrigue and can tell the little dwarf is a slick bastard.

The incest scene was a bit weird and maybe a little too much for me. The rest of the episode was great and has laid a solid foundation for the series. I give the first episode a 8/10

[Honolulu_Blue]

I wonder why this wasn't made into a movie a la Lord of the Rings. I didn't even notice an hour has passed. I have no issue with the nudity and when I saw the pale blond haired girl I said to myself I want to see her naked. I love all the political intrigue and can tell the little dwarf is a slick bastard.

Because the first book (of 7 planned) is longer than the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. The LOTR movies were three 2.5 - 3 hour films, so, in order to even do the first three books, you would be talking at least nine 2.5 - 3 hour long movies. That'd be crazy.

[Peregrine]

Regarding the casting on Catelyn Stark, I guess they may have changed direction on the character, or there may have been issues, since the actress changed for that role during casting (also for Daenerys.) Personally I feel that she is okay, but I would have liked to see her presented in the first episode as a bit younger looking at the least, since with all she has to deal with in the books it would be natural for her to look a bit older as the series goes on. But I don't think it's really a big deal.

[Chief Rum]

I guess it depends on a deeper, more philosophical, discussion on the nature/definition of "evil" and whether it exists at all.

That discussion aside, I firmly consider, at the very least, the following characters to be "evil" or at least such complete vile dickheads that the vast majority of their actions in the novels could never really be justified:

Joffery, Visreys, Gregor Clegane, Roos Bolton's bastard son. Also charcters like Rorge, Biter, many of the Brave Companions and many of Gregor Clegane's men. The others who are on the fringe of being "evil", would be Roos Bolton himself. Granted he could be one with a "very narrow focus" and is simply playing the game for power, but he's a fucker. Same with Walder Frey. Those two, however, are not quite in the same category of the initial list.

Granted, most of those are very minor characters and we are talking about a handful out of a cast of thousands.

Yeah, I was thinking of Joffrey and Viserys when I said "died too quick"; Jaime is pretty much as bad as them at the start and look at the winding path he has travelled. They were kids who died before they grew up. Now, mind you, I really do think both were true pieces of shit and likely to remain so, but still... I figured you would bring up The Mountain, and I agree he's probably your best example. I am losing the thread on Bolton's son, amidst the thousands of characters; I forget what he did.

Walder Frey is an excellent example in my mind of the "narrow focus" type I am talking about. Even better examples would be Tywin, Cersei, Robert's brother (drawing a blank on his name right now, doh!), the Dorne princess, etc.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Littlefinger was not in the episode, but was in the preview for the next. It was only a snippet ("That would be treason!" "Only if we lose." /evilgrin), but man did he pull off smarmy and sly well for that snippet.

I thought Arya was completely perfect, and while I figured Sansa would be a bit more beautiful, she does seem to be good at simpering and calf-eyed innocence.

The other thing that disappointed me was the Drogo/Dany consummation scene. Way too brief, and it felt a lot more like Dany was being taken unwillingly. The book's version where he seemingly asks permission and she grants it was a huge moment to me, and did a lot to shape their relationship. I also echo the worries about the actress playing Dany, though as someone else stated, it's probably just because she is scared as hell.As my roommate pointed out, her life in the Khalasar after wedding Drogo does a lot to define and create her personality, so the way she's acting now is probably spot-on for her character.

While I wasn't as surprised at the lack of snow around Winterfell, I WAS surprised by the lack of trees. I pictured Winterfell nearly surrounded by trees (the Wolfswood, I think?), and the empty, moor-looking lands around it was disconcerting to me.

[DaddyTorgo]

I found it pretty easy to follow. Ned is the good guy, the incest twins are bad, the guy with the pony tail is really bad, the King is good, but irresponsible, etc. I have no idea how well this correlates to the books, but it was easy for me to understand/get in to.

Nope - that's the gist of it (for now). Cool.

Would it have enhanced your viewing experience at all to know the backstory though?

To know for example that Robert was once promised to Ned's sister, who ended up running off with the Targaryn crown prince (brother of the white-haired crazy guy), and that Ned's brother was killed by the crazy Targaryn king who then demanded that Ned & Robert be turned over to him to be killed too, and that then the Starks and Baratheon's (to simplify - the rebellion was actually led by Jon Arryn, their foster-father) led a rebellion that toppled the Targaryn's (complete with the male incest twin slitting the throat of the crazy king and opening the city gates to the invaders), and drove the last two Targaryn babies (crazy guy and naked girl) into exile on the other continent, and that as the price of having incest twin's powerful (rich) father support his crown that Robert had to marry her? Or is that level of backstory not necessary for your enjoyment?

You definitely nailed the gist of the characters by the way (at least for the moment as others have said) - I'm just wondering purely from an intellectual standpoint. Like I said - I liked it last night, but woke up this morning wondering if non-readers might be wanting a little more back-story.

[JPhillips]

I didn't need that backstory and frankly too much of it would have made things really confusing. An hour just isn't that long and I thought they did a good job of moving the action forward while balancing the need for exposition. Boardwalk Empire failed at that IMO by spending way too much time on exposition and historical trivia.

[JPhillips]

Heh. :D

JPhillips, you will soon find that there is no good or bad, but only individual characters, some mostly good, some mostly bad, some conflicted between the two, and some that go from one spectrum to the other. It's a characteristic of Martin's stories.

At least on television, I think it's damn near impossible to make a guy that pushed a ten-year old to his death anything but a bad guy.

[DaddyTorgo]

I didn't need that backstory and frankly too much of it would have made things really confusing. An hour just isn't that long and I thought they did a good job of moving the action forward while balancing the need for exposition. Boardwalk Empire failed at that IMO by spending way too much time on exposition and historical trivia.

Cool. Thanks for that POV.:D

[ISiddiqui]

The incest scene was a bit weird and maybe a little too much for me.

If it made you queasy, I must warn that it isn't a one and done thing... it has lots of implications for the story going forward.

[ISiddiqui]

At least on television, I think it's damn near impossible to make a guy that pushed a ten-year old to his death anything but a bad guy.

:D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Does anyone know when we might have rating numbers? I want to know when I can start getting my hopes up for a 2nd season

Numbers aren't expected until tomorrow, once HBO can gather up all the replays and put the data together.

A minor rumor floating today (at TVBTN) was that the initial reports from the fast overnights were a bit underwhelming but I don't think that's enough to be concerned about. Given the investment, I figure a 2nd season is assured by anything short of outright bombtastic.

[SirFozzie]

Early Ratings: Game of Thrones Is No Boardwalk Empire -- Vulture (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/early_ratings_game_of_thrones.html)

Unofficials are 1.6, but it had much less promotion than Boardwalk Empire, and as Jon said, a 2nd season is pretty much guaranteed unless all flee in horror

[DaddyTorgo]

Early Ratings: Game of Thrones Is No Boardwalk Empire -- Vulture (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/early_ratings_game_of_thrones.html)

Unofficials are 1.6, but it had much less promotion than Boardwalk Empire, and as Jon said, a 2nd season is pretty much guaranteed unless all flee in horror


FYI - from westeros.org forum

From AICN:
Quote
For their part, HBO execs are said to be so pleased with the results they’re poised to announce a second season come Monday morning.

And a 1.6 premiere (even on the early numbers) is better than the S1 premiere of True Blood.

[MrBug708]

Did I miss the announcement then?

[DeToxRox]

I loved the premier, but I get the sense this will go the way of Rome. Two seasons and then the costs don't end up justifying more seasons.

[DaddyTorgo]

Did I miss the announcement then?

No - I don't think there's been a formal announcement - still just all speculation.

[DaddyTorgo]

I loved the premier, but I get the sense this will go the way of Rome. Two seasons and then the costs don't end up justifying more seasons.

I think that's far from certain. They've apparently made a bundle off it internationally already (or are set to make a bundle). I'm going to be optimistic.

[rowech]

Tough call for me whether to continue watching. I've never read any of the books and this seems like it'll be awesome for fans of the series. Seems like a lot of characters to keep track of and I'm assuming that just gets worse as the series will go on. Seems like they can't go slow enough to get those never having read the books enough to really piece everything together.

Maybe...

[DaddyTorgo]

Tough call for me whether to continue watching. I've never read any of the books and this seems like it'll be awesome for fans of the series. Seems like a lot of characters to keep track of and I'm assuming that just gets worse as the series will go on. Seems like they can't go slow enough to get those never having read the books enough to really piece everything together.

Maybe...

Actually I daresay you've now met the vast majority of the characters that will be important in the first season.

And we here are happy to help you piece it together. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Unofficials are 1.6, but it had much less promotion than Boardwalk Empire, and as Jon said, a 2nd season is pretty much guaranteed unless all flee in horror

Yoinks, 43% lower than BE. That ain't good, might still be good enough (and probably is) but in that light I'm not quite as certain as I was yesterday.

Tell you what I believe it does, it makes it harder for anything similar to get produced. The numbers simply don't appear to be good enough to justify the expense.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yoinks, 43% lower than BE. That ain't good, might still be good enough (and probably is) but in that light I'm not quite as certain as I was yesterday.

Tell you what I believe it does, it makes it harder for anything similar to get produced. The numbers simply don't appear to be good enough to justify the expense.

You're the ratings-guru out there, but I have been reading a bunch and I'm not so sure that HBO was expecting it to do Boardwalk Empire #'s, considering that BE premiered at a different time of year, was promoted more, and had Scorcese directing the first episode, plus a Steve Buscemi as the main character.

You look at the unofficial numbers (which may still be revised upward of course), and it did the same premiere numbers as True Blood. BE also has dropped off massively I thought (the season finale was seen by less people than those who watched last night’s GOT premiere), so the key isn't necessarily premiere numbers...(trying to be an optimist here is all).

It's also done quite well internationally.

Media analyst Brad Adgate is reporting (https://twitter.com/#!/badgate/status/60328382663102464) that the total viewer number for the premiere of Game of Thrones was 2.22 million. The median age was 44.2.

Meanwhile, initial news from the other side of the Pond is very good: Game of Thrones got highest ratings (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/apr/19/game-of-thrones-sky-atlantic-ratings?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+UK:) of all shows on Sky Atlantic so far.

Critical reaction and "pushing the envelope with quality drama" is almost important to HBO...

[GrantDawg]

"The things I do for love"

Just watched the episode again, and I want to mention I might not have as much a problem with Cat's not wanting Ned to take the Hand's job. I started thinking about it, and really the change fits more with her character than her reaction in the book, and it might be why Martin signed off on it.

Cat never really shows anything even bordering on ambition for herself or family anywhere else in the books except at the begining in pushing Ned to take the job and letting Sansa betroth Joffery. Her motivations always comes from emotions, chiefly fear. She only shows bravery when she wants to protect her children, and she consistently shows she'd be just as happy if her kids lost titles, power, position, etc. if that meant they grew old and happy. So, maybe they are just letting be more consistent. She wouldn't want Ned, and most especially any of the kids, to go off into least bit of danger if she could help it. It fits more with what she does throughout the rest of the stories.

[Honolulu_Blue]

"The things I do for love"

Just watched the episode again, and I want to mention I might not have as much a problem with Cat's not wanting Ned to take the Hand's job. I started thinking about it, and really the change fits more with her character than her reaction in the book, and it might be why Martin signed off on it.

Cat never really shows anything even bordering on ambition for herself or family anywhere else in the books except at the begining in pushing Ned to take the job and letting Sansa betroth Joffery. Her motivations always comes from emotions, chiefly fear. She only shows bravery when she wants to protect her children, and she consistently shows she'd be just as happy if her kids lost titles, power, position, etc. if that meant they grew old and happy. So, maybe they are just letting be more consistent. She wouldn't want Ned, and most especially any of the kids, to go off into least bit of danger if she could help it. It fits more with what she does throughout the rest of the stories.

I totally agree with this assessment.

[Honolulu_Blue]

As for the whole ratings thing. It's not something I can really get too worked up about either way. I just hope, whatever the out come, they make a second or third season or whatever. Even if they don't make a second or third season, that's fine too.

There's really nothing I can do about the ratings, so why worry about it?

[cschex]

Great perspective on Cat, GrantDawg, that I completely agree with.

On the ratings front, I'm not as worried now knowing how much money HBO has made from this already on the international scene. I would love getting the whole series, of course, but getting any seasons at all was such a pipe dream that I'm just trying to enjoy the ride

[DaddyTorgo]

Officially renewed by HBO for a 2nd season

[JonInMiddleGA]

BE also has dropped off massively I thought (the season finale was seen by less people than those who watched last night’s GOT premiere), so the key isn't necessarily premiere numbers...(trying to be an optimist here is all).

Oh BE definitely tanked after the premiere. But, renewal or not, this sort of debut is not a major U.S. hit out of the box. And at a budget of between $50m-$60m for the first year, I just don't see similar productions getting the green light in the future w/out being successful both domestically and abroad.

Critical reaction and "pushing the envelope with quality drama" is almost important to HBO...

Not as important as at least getting in the neighborhood of breaking even, don't kid yourself. They aren't in this to lose money any more than the next guy. The 2nd season seemed likely (as I mentioned) as long as they did okay, I would expect the budget to be somewhat smaller next year, as they try to get into the black (and beyond) over the longer haul.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Officially renewed by HBO for a 2nd season

Sweet!

Davos!

Stanis!

Jaqen H'ghar!

Brienne of Tarth!

HOT PIE!!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh BE definitely tanked after the premiere. But, renewal or not, this sort of debut is not a major U.S. hit out of the box. And at a budget of between $50m-$60m for the first year, I just don't see similar productions getting the green light in the future w/out being successful both domestically and abroad.



Not as important as at least getting in the neighborhood of breaking even, don't kid yourself. They aren't in this to lose money any more than the next guy. The 2nd season seemed likely (as I mentioned) as long as they did okay, I would expect the budget to be somewhat smaller next year, as they try to get into the black (and beyond) over the longer haul.

They've apparently made about 50% of the budget back through overseas rights already though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They've apparently made about 50% of the budget back through overseas rights already though.

And they have to hope that DVD profits make up the rest.

[Honolulu_Blue]

And they have to hope that DVD profits make up the rest.

Which could be likely. These types of shows usually do very well with respect to DVD sales.

[Vince, Pt. II]

You may be swaying me on Cat, GrantDawg. That being said...

Cat did not seem to start reacting with fear until she started losing people. A big theme for her later is calling others "children of summer," and although her "summer" ended when Ned went off to war, she didn't really experience it, outside of having to deal with Jon Snow. I always envisioned her fear beginning when she lost Ned.

[DaddyTorgo]

And they have to hope that DVD profits make up the rest.

And new subscriptions, and merchandise, and etc.

That's their business model. They don't do advertising (obviously), so it's not like that is unexpected.

[GrantDawg]

You may be swaying me on Cat, GrantDawg. That being said...

Cat did not seem to start reacting with fear until she started losing people. A big theme for her later is calling others "children of summer," and although her "summer" ended when Ned went off to war, she didn't really experience it, outside of having to deal with Jon Snow. I always envisioned her fear beginning when she lost Ned.


In a way, true Vince. But recognize there is going to be some simpling of characters from book to show (you can't go into the mind and thoughts of a character in a show like a book without a cumsly thought "voice over" or something), so I expect we'll see some but lighter character growth, and a bit of simplification and smoothing of character traits.

Dany will definitely grow into herself. The complexities of Tyrion stays. But someone like Cat will be simpler to be consistent.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Things I don't understand:

1) Why is the thread called "A Song of Ice and Fire" but you're talking about a TV show called "Game of Thrones"?
2) Why didn't anyone send me a PM telling me that there would be a show full of nudity on TV?
3) Why didn't my wife call me into the room while all this nudity was going on?
4) Why doesn't this TV show have dongs in it (I asked my wife, and she said there were no dongs)?

I hate HBO.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Things I don't understand:

1) Why is the thread called "A Song of Ice and Fire" but you're talking about a TV show called "Game of Thrones"?
2) Why didn't anyone send me a PM telling me that there would be a show full of nudity on TV?
3) Why didn't my wife call me into the room while all this nudity was going on?
4) Why doesn't this TV show have dongs in it (I asked my wife, and she said there were no dongs)?

I hate HBO.

1. The series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire". The first book of that series is called "A Game Of Thrones." They decided to go with the name of the first book instead of the name of the series for the show. Good move. The series name is a mouthful, like my dong. We don't yet know whether the second season will be re-titled "A Clash of Kings", which is the name of the second book of the series, or will still be called "A Game Of Thrones" in order to avoid confusing the masses.

2. It was HBO. Pretty much all HBO shows have nudity. You should know that. But, now that you know, watch it On Demand! You can pause and rewind all the boobs.

3. Pass.

4. It's only the first episode. There are yet nine more episodes. Tell your wife to keep watching. You just never know when a dong might show up!

[Pumpy Tudors]

I haven't watched an HBO show regularly since "Mr. Show with Bob and David" went off the air, and as I recall, there was one sketch in the entire series that had boobs, and all the rest of the nudity was Bob's or David's bare ass... which I'm not necessarily complaining about.

And I just called my wife to find out why she didn't summon me into the room, and she said that I would've just killed her enjoyment of all the boobs. :(

[DaddyTorgo]

None of the HBO shows show dongs - the most you'll get is a bare-assed man. Even on something like "Hung" you don't get dong.

[Honolulu_Blue]

None of the HBO shows show dongs - the most you'll get is a bare-assed man. Even on something like "Hung" you don't get dong.

From what I recall, "Oz" showed plently of dongs.

[Pumpy Tudors]

loved oz

[DaddyTorgo]

From what I recall, "Oz" showed plently of dongs.

Oh...I missed Oz.

[rowech]

None of the HBO shows show dongs - the most you'll get is a bare-assed man. Even on something like "Hung" you don't get dong.

Rome did.

[DaddyTorgo]

Fair enough. I forgot about some dongs.

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh yeah, and FYI (bolding is of course mine)


Among the early critical raves, TV Guide has called the show “a crowning triumph” and “brilliant,” while the Los Angeles Times termed GAME OF THRONES “a great and thundering series,” as well as “wild and bewitching.” The Hollywood Reporter praised the “excellent storytelling, superb acting and stunning visual effects,” and the New York Post observed that the “art directing, acting and incredible sets are as breathtaking as the massive scope of the series.”

The gross audience for the premiere night of GAME OF THRONES on the main HBO channel was 4.2 million viewers.

[Pumpy Tudors]

For some reason, when I saw that the series was called "Game of Thrones", I thought it was going to be about basketball. I don't know why. My wife sort of explained to me what it was, so I didn't watch. Then I find out that there were no dongs, so I'm glad I didn't watch.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to get dongs mentioned in a handful of posts here, though.

[JPhillips]

Pumpy: Six Feet Under had a lot of dongs, but they were all on dead people so I don't know if that counts for you.

[Honolulu_Blue]

For some reason, when I saw that the series was called "Game of Thrones", I thought it was going to be about basketball. I don't know why. My wife sort of explained to me what it was, so I didn't watch. Then I find out that there were no dongs, so I'm glad I didn't watch.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to get dongs mentioned in a handful of posts here, though.

You know, if I had moved to Akron, I would totally come over and watch the show with your wife. I'd even bring lemon cakes and we'd sit there, eating lemon cakes, enjoying the show and all of the boobs.

I promise we'd call you in if there was ever a dong on screen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh yeah, and FYI (bolding is of course mine)

*which includes repeat viewers

[DaddyTorgo]

*which includes repeat viewers

Which is fine. Repeat viewers, time-shifted viewers, whatever. There was a lot of talk on blogs (although I didn't see any actual numbers quoted so i don't know about the validity of it) about how the NBA playoff games affected ratings - that after the games were over the 10PM and 11PM showings did very good numbers as well as people switched over.

That's the number HBO cited in THEIR press release, so that's obviously the number they want to highlight.

We could sit here and discuss if they are just trying to put a super positive spin on it, or if that's actually the number that they truly care about, but bottom line is that none of us know that.

[GrantDawg]

*which includes repeat viewers


How much does that matter on a show that doesn't sell ads? I really don't know how success is measured as much on premium channels. It can't be just the first run of the episode. It has to based on re-watchability and marketing because they make their money on suscriptions and marketing, not ad dollars.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You know, if I had moved to Akron, I would totally come over and watch the show with your wife. I'd even bring lemon cakes and we'd sit there, eating lemon cakes, enjoying the show and all of the boobs.

I promise we'd call you in if there was ever a dong on screen.
DAMMIT H_B

[sabotai]

*which includes repeat viewers

Does that also include those who watched it On Demand later that night or the next day? (which is how I watched the first episode, On Demand later that night).

[JonInMiddleGA]

How much does that matter on a show that doesn't sell ads? I really don't know how success is measured as much on premium channels. It can't be just the first run of the episode. It has to based on re-watchability and marketing because they make their money on suscriptions and marketing, not ad dollars.

I'd think the opposite actually. They hype the cumulative because it makes them sound more significant than the reality of single ep numbers that put them closer to second tier cable reality show numbers than to significant programming (it got a 0.9 A18-49, Khole & Lamar did a 1.3 the week on Sunday night 10p, Housewives of Orange County did a 0.9 in the same time slot).

Outside of secondary sources (like overseas rights, dvd's, etc) they make their money by retaining customers and attracting new ones. The latter presumably is helped by things like water-cooler buzz, i.e. making it seem like must-see-tv, and this really didn't pull the kind of numbers I believe would be needed for that.

As for how it accomplishes the retention goal, I can't say that I've got a firm opinion, simply isn't something I've read about/pondered a ton, since as you pointed out, the lack of ads really means it's not a big deal to me one way or the other.

From last fall though, I'll offer this bit (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/exclusive-hbo-subscribers-dwindling-27724)about how HBO's subscriber count has been stagnant since 2006 and actually took a dip last year, pointing out how original programming isn't really what drives the pay networks up or down.

edit to add: I ran across that story as part of something much simpler, I was looking for a subscriber estimate to figure what they're internal rating was (viewers/subscribers). Figuring 28.6m subscribers at 1.5 persons per household (wild ass guess), the gross eyeballs are about 10% of subscribers give or take a little.

[timmynausea]

The True Blood premiere in '08 only had 1.4 million viewers on Sunday night and 2.4 cumulative. GOT had 2.4 and 4.2 cumulative. True Blood has steadily built its ratings and hit 5.38 million (and a 3.0 for 18-49) for the season 3 finale (can't find what the cumulative was on that). It wouldn't surprise me if GOT builds similarly once word of mouth gets going and the S1 DVDs are out there, but we'll see.

[terpkristin]

Been skimming this thread while at work on my iPhone, I agree with a lot of what I've seen said here. All in all, I enjoyed it, though I had some nitpicks.

The actress who played Dany played her much more scared and stiff than I was expecting. I hope she loosens up.

Viserys was spot-on.

I think if I didn't know that Jamie and Cersi were twins, this adaption would not have indicated to me that they were even related....

I saw somewhere someone said that Joffrey didn't even have any lines in this episode, and still he looked like he deserved a kick in the keester. :D

I thought the wedding night scene with Drogo and Dany ended up coming off much more like rape than it did the de-flowering of a timid virgin. When I read the book, I interpreted that scene to be much more of Drogo caring and being careful, not being so forceful...

Also, Tyrion is too pretty. Where's his hump?

Finally, I know they had to do this, but that castle looked way too contrived to be easy to climb. The way they added the foot/hand holds wasn't like I imagine a castle really looks.

/tk

[JonInMiddleGA]

It wouldn't surprise me if GOT builds similarly

That's the part that would surprise me considerably.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Been skimming this thread while at work on my iPhone, I agree with a lot of what I've seen said here. All in all, I enjoyed it, though I had some nitpicks.

The actress who played Dany played her much more scared and stiff than I was expecting. I hope she loosens up.

Viserys was spot-on.

I think if I didn't know that Jamie and Cersi were twins, this adaption would not have indicated to me that they were even related....

I saw somewhere someone said that Joffrey didn't even have any lines in this episode, and still he looked like he deserved a kick in the keester. :D

I thought the wedding night scene with Drogo and Dany ended up coming off much more like rape than it did the de-flowering of a timid virgin. When I read the book, I interpreted that scene to be much more of Drogo caring and being careful, not being so forceful...

Also, Tyrion is too pretty. Where's his hump?

Finally, I know they had to do this, but that castle looked way too contrived to be easy to climb. The way they added the foot/hand holds wasn't like I imagine a castle really looks.

/tk

Yes, to just about all of the above. I'm going to give the Jaime/Cersei thing a complete pass if the actors pull off their roles well. I also think they should be more blonde, but I can see the difference there being to offset Dany and Viserys in a way. For what it's worth, I thought Jaime's hair looked WAY better outside than it did inside, color-wise.

In a way, true Vince. But recognize there is going to be some simpling of characters from book to show (you can't go into the mind and thoughts of a character in a show like a book without a cumsly thought "voice over" or something), so I expect we'll see some but lighter character growth, and a bit of simplification and smoothing of character traits.

Dany will definitely grow into herself. The complexities of Tyrion stays. But someone like Cat will be simpler to be consistent.

Totally agree. I just want everything in the books to be in the show too :)

[OldGiants]

Also, Tyrion is too pretty. Where's his hump?


/tk

What hump? (Start it at 1:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaPZZJVDx6Y

[terpkristin]

By the by, if anybody hasn't read the books or wants a refresher on characters and such, the Game of Thrones Companion iOS app is actually very well done. Game of Thrones Companion for iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad on the iTunes App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/game-of-thrones-companion/id400598887?mt=8)

/tk

[terpkristin]

Dola, I shared this on FB, but in case you aren't friends with me....

Secrets Behind 'Game of Thrones' Opening Credits (Video) - Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/secrets-game-thrones-opening-credits-179656) is an article that talks about the opening credits to the show. I thought they were pretty slick, cool to read a little of the inspiration.

/tk

[Ramzavail]

just bought the app for the hell of it, looks awesome so far.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Does breaking the ratings down demographically really matter for HBO? I know its important for advertisers, but outside of a "the younger they are, the longer they could be a customer" does it really matter who is subscribing?

[Pumpy Tudors]

any word on if season 2 will have the addition of dongs

[JPhillips]

I think you'll be able to customize the blueray version to add dongs. Even on the women.

[Pumpy Tudors]

love that

[terpkristin]

I want the opening credits theme as a ringtone. Still love the opening credits artwork.

/tk

[Bad-example]

I liked the understated music throughout.

[DaddyTorgo]

I want the opening credits theme as a ringtone. Still love the opening credits artwork.

/tk

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1980852/Game_of_Thrones_-_Intro_1080p_HD_5.1_Sound%21.mp3

you might want to trim it down some though

[terpkristin]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1980852/Game_of_Thrones_-_Intro_1080p_HD_5.1_Sound%21.mp3

you might want to trim it down some though

You, sir, are AWESOME.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

You, sir, are AWESOME.

/tk

It's not perfect or anything - I just found a youtube video and DLed it and encoded it as an MP3...but it's a start.

[Coffee Warlord]

And it works pretty well as a ringtone. I cut out the first 8 or so seconds, sounds good.

[DaddyTorgo]

And it works pretty well as a ringtone. I cut out of the first 8 or so seconds, sounds good.

Sweetttttttttt

Might do that myself!

[DaddyTorgo]

And it works pretty well as a ringtone. I cut out the first 8 or so seconds, sounds good.

-8.5 seconds (close as I could get without being TOO anal), saved as MP3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1980852/GoT%20ringtone.mp3

[DanGarion]

I think it's a bit of a reach, and wrong, to say that the show "focuses" on the sex. It certainly doesn't shy away from the sex/nudity, but it most certainly is not the "focus" of the show.

I just watched it last night and I agree with you, the sex was not the focus during the episode.

[DanGarion]

Just an FYI, I've never read the books, but I'm going to invest my time in the series. For those that are trying to figure out who is who and the relation of each of them to each other, HBO has done a nice job with the Viewers Guide.

HBO: Game of Thrones: Viewer's Guide (http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/)

I was confused at the end because I thought the Queen was having sex with a guy I thought was her brother and now after going through the guide I was assured that my initial understanding was correct.

[MrBug708]

Sucks being the last post on a page :(

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - A Song of Ice and Fire (The Television Series) (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2456162&postcount=50)

[DanGarion]

Sucks being the last post on a page :(

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - A Song of Ice and Fire (The Television Series) (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2456162&postcount=50)
Hah, and that was before I watched the 1st episode, I didn't read or post in here till I watched it, and I purposely avoided any comments posted before the show aired to make sure I didn't get anything that could be sort of spoilerish.

[Aylmar]

Maybe it was anticipation of things to come, but I thought the pilot drug a bit. In fact, most of the people I talk to shared the opinion that it was slow in a few places. There's a lot of exposition in a novel I just don't care about when it gets adapted to the screen (see the drawn-out "is it finally over" ending to Return of the King with all the fading to black). I fully admit that it could have been my wanting to "get to the good part", though.

I couldn't disagree more about Cat. I always felt her sense of duty was one of the pillars of her character in the beginning and that's why she urges Ned to go with Robert in the novels. Her sense of duty is constantly at war with love and fear for her family throughout her storyline. I think by taking that strong early position away, they crippled her character arc. Ah well, such is life. Not enough screen time for all of it.

Don't think I need spoilers since I didn't reveal any plot points (except the fact that Cat does in fact have a story)...

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe it was anticipation of things to come, but I thought the pilot drug a bit. In fact, most of the people I talk to shared the opinion that it was slow in a few places. There's a lot of exposition in a novel I just don't care about when it gets adapted to the screen (see the drawn-out "is it finally over" ending to Return of the King with all the fading to black). I fully admit that it could have been my wanting to "get to the good part", though.

I couldn't disagree more about Cat. I always felt her sense of duty was one of the pillars of her character in the beginning and that's why she urges Ned to go with Robert in the novels. Her sense of duty is constantly at war with love and fear for her family throughout her storyline. I think by taking that strong early position away, they crippled her character arc. Ah well, such is life. Not enough screen time for all of it.

Don't think I need spoilers since I didn't reveal any plot points (except the fact that Cat does in fact have a story)...

I thought it dragged a bit too, but there was a lot of exposition in introducing the vast cast of characters and trying to move things along to the point where they could end it with "The things I do for love." There's also not a ton of action-action that early in the book - you could have spent some time on the kids training in the yard or something to get some swordplay in there, but it wouldn't have been real action, and it also would have necessitated either making the episode longer (thus not really reducing the drag), or taking out something else and moving it to episode 2 (Dany/Drogo wedding? But then that pushes more of the Dany/Drogo story to next week and sets off a ripple-effect).

I agree with what you said about Cat and her whole sense of duty being at war with love and fear for the family, and we didn't see that with her just jumping to telling Ned to go. But maybe we'll get that in this next episode before they leave for Kings Landing - we haven't seen it yet so we don't know whether they just simplified her internal struggle a bit (lack of an internal monologue making it more time-consuming to show her internal struggle and they felt they didn't have the time?), or just rearranged it a bit.

Same thing with the Dany/Drogo bit - I wouldn't put it past them having some sort of more tender "you have given me the wind" type moment early in this coming episode (before the girl-on-girl action) that would sort of make more clear that the whole wedding-night thing wasn't "rape."

[Galaril]

I read the books and like everyone immensely enjoyed them but the 1st episode didn't suck me in enough to spend $16 bucks for the next three months for another 9 hours. I will probably hold off on signing up for HBO and just wait for it on DVD or another avenue. Fortunately with the NBA playoffs I still have other things to watch.

[Chief Rum]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. Even knowing what was going to happen, the last scene was very powerful.

[DaddyTorgo]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. Even knowing what was going to happen, the last scene was very powerful.

Yeah. I know some reviewers who have seen ahead said that this was the weakest of the first 6 or so episodes...if so, I'm very happy.

[terpkristin]

I agree, though this was guaranteed to be one of my "least favorite" episodes. The scene at the end, and the one where Arya sends Nymeria away, are two of my least favorite scenes in the books. I love the wolves.

/tk

[Chief Rum]

Yeah. I know some reviewers who have seen ahead said that this was the weakest of the first 6 or so episodes...if so, I'm very happy.

Wow, really? This was better than the first one. There was a lot wading around in the first one, a lot of story and characters to introduce (and understandably, it being a premier episode).

With that behind them, they were really able to get into the meat of some of these characters, and it showed tonight.

I actually think tonight might end up being a very critical night for followers of the show. If you don't feel some attachment to some of these characters here now, you never will.

[MrBug708]

I agree, though this was guaranteed to be one of my "least favorite" episodes. The scene at the end, and the one where Arya sends Nymeria away, are two of my least favorite scenes in the books. I love the wolves.

/tk

My girlfriend HATED this episode and said she wouldn't watch it anymore. I told her that the first wolf needed to die for Bran to live and be able to be one with the wolves. She might have come around it.

I'm with Chief though, I thought this episode was better than the first.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I really enjoyed last night's episode. Despite knowing what was coming the scene with Lady was still emotionally powerful and I liked how they shot that along with Bran waking up.

I also loved the scene with Catelyn, the killer and Summer in Bran's chambers. It's one of those scenes that has always been so vivid in my head that it was great to see it play out in live action.

That scene with Lady was one of the toughest in all the books and wasn't any easier.

I am really liking Mark Addy's Robert. He may be shorter than I imagined and his hair not quite black enough, but I think he really captures the essence of the character perfectly.

[DaddyTorgo]

I really enjoyed last night's episode. Despite knowing what was coming the scene with Lady was still emotionally powerful and I liked how they shot that along with Bran waking up.

I also loved the scene with Catelyn, the killer and Summer in Bran's chambers. It's one of those scenes that has always been so vivid in my head that it was great to see it play out in live action.

That scene with Lady was one of the toughest in all the books and wasn't any easier.

I am really liking Mark Addy's Robert. He may be shorter than I imagined and his hair not quite black enough, but I think he really captures the essence of the character perfectly.


Agreed on all parts. The Lady/Nymeria stuff coming so close together, in the books as well as here obviously, was always hard for me to take. You thought the direwolves were going to be so important and then Martin goes off and kills 1/3 of them right after introducing them. Tough.

[MrBug708]

I think Lady was the only one who was killed. I always assumed Nymeria is was the direwolf who is spoked about leading the band of wolves roaming the countryside

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think Lady was the only one who was killed. I always assumed Nymeria is was the direwolf who is spoked about leading the band of wolves roaming the countryside

Yes and yes.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think Lady was the only one who was killed. I always assumed Nymeria is was the direwolf who is spoked about leading the band of wolves roaming the countryside

You right. I should haven't said killed 1/3...that was a misspeak. "Removed from the story directly" would have been a better way to put it (although yes, Nymeria will come back into play later I'm sure). My bad.

[Honolulu_Blue]

We should aim to keep this thread spoiler free beyond any episodes that have been aired.

[Noop]

Got to be honest the platinum blond who is married to that tall guy is hot. I seriously want to engage in numerous sexual activities with her. I hate the Queen and her son. I also hate that little tomboy who doesn't seem to know when to stop.

I love this show.

[DaddyTorgo]

Got to be honest the platinum blond who is married to that tall guy is hot. I seriously want to engage in numerous sexual activities with her. I hate the Queen and her son. I also hate that little tomboy who doesn't seem to know when to stop.

I love this show.

Yay!!!!

Yes - the lil tomboy (Arya) did mess things up there. But her storyline gets progressively more interesting in the future.

[DaddyTorgo]

We should aim to keep this thread spoiler free beyond any episodes that have been aired.

Of course.

[Coffee Warlord]

It being HBO, I was actually surprised at how much restraint they showed in this episode. They had a chance for full-on lesbo action, and took it easy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It being HBO, I was actually surprised at how much restraint they showed in this episode. They had a chance for full-on lesbo action, and took it easy.

When I watched the trailer it looked like they were going to go the full-on lesbo route and I'm kind of glad they didn't. I liked the scene with Dany and her hand maidens and the subsequent scene with Drogo.

[Coffee Warlord]

As did I. They did that whole thing well without the 'ADD MORE BOOBS AND HOT SEX' that HBO has a tendency to do with their shows.

(Though I can't say I would mind seeing more nekked Dany)

[Swaggs]

I'm not at all familiar with the book/series, but after reading about the series over and over, I watched the first two episodes last night. A little overwhelming at first (with so many characters), but I really enjoyed the show (aside from the end of episode 2).

I read a little bit about the series on wikipedia, so I think I am up to speed enough to enjoy and understand the show now. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not at all familiar with the book/series, but after reading about the series over and over, I watched the first two episodes last night. A little overwhelming at first (with so many characters), but I really enjoyed the show (aside from the end of episode 2).

I read a little bit about the series on wikipedia, so I think I am up to speed enough to enjoy and understand the show now. :)

Welcome Swaggs!!:popcorn:

[Alan T]

I never read this series either, but after the first two episodes I have been really enjoying it and look forward to more.

[GrantDawg]

It was a good episode. You always wonder why they feel the need to add scenes not in the story when you have to remove so much. Some times it makes sense to explain story arcs that might not translate as well from book to action, but sometimes they seem like baffling filler when there is no need. I'd say the Jon-Jamie exchange was one of those scenes. Not a big deal, just a "why?"

I wish the Jon-Cat scene was closer to the book, but it was close enough to get the gist. Dany was a little more animated, but now I worry about another favorite. The Dog is under-whelming me. A little more life in him, please. He always seemed he could be silently threating when he wanted to be, but very loud and in your face threating as well. The director seems to like robots too much. Does come from Sci-fi background or something?

I am two for two at guessing the ending shots so far. I am still puzzling the next chapters end. I dodge the previews like the plague because I know I am watching, and I really don't want to know what is coming. I can guess where the next stories will be, but I am puzzling on the next break. It is my own little fun trivia game. :) (No guesses, I don't want clues)

[Honolulu_Blue]

GrantDawg, I had some similar concerns about The Hound as well. I really liked how he delivered his line about Micah, but before that I wasn't too terribly impressed. That said, he hasn't had that much screen time, so I will withold judgment.

[MrBug708]

I wonder how in-depth the three-eyed crow will play in the story. Personally, I didn't like that part and while I understand the importance of it, I think HBO Might gloss over that part of the storyline, at least early on.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The three-eyed crow thing also makes me wonder how many, if any, dream sequences/flashbacks will even be in the show. There is so much present day stuff that needs to happen and so many present day characters out there, that I wonder if they will delve much into history or do much with any of the dream sequences.

[GrantDawg]

The three-eyed crow thing also makes me wonder how many, if any, dream sequences/flashbacks will even be in the show. There is so much present day stuff that needs to happen and so many present day characters out there, that I wonder if they will delve much into history or do much with any of the dream sequences.


My guess will be conversationally. They might be brought up verbally, but not actually shown.

[Peregrine]

May have been posted before, but HBO has a really slick guide to all the Houses and characters in the show - helpful if you haven't read the books. Some of the houses don't come into play until later, of course.

HBO: Game of Thrones: Viewer's Guide (http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/)

Also there is a map tab at the top.

[DaddyTorgo]

Haha - the OtakuASSEMBLE guy's Episode 2 review on youtube is entitled "Why I Hate the Lannisters."

http://www.youtube.com/user/OtakuASSEMBLE#p/a/u/1/TFGlVBvmC4o

Great lines:

"Tyrion...Tyrion's obviously a G."

"I'm entitling this episode Why I Hate the Lannisters. They're all pompous douches. Seriously...all of them. Except for Tyrion...he's a prick also but 1 he's a smart one and 2 because of his circumstances he's not full of himself."

[timmynausea]

The ratings held steady for the 2nd episode and in fact grew 0.1 in the 18-49 demographic, which as someone pointed out probably matters less for HBO since they don't sell ads, but a gain is still good. As a comparison, Boardwalk Empire's total viewers dropped 31% from its 1st to 2nd episodes.

Game of Thrones Renewed for a Second Season by HBO - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/26/game-of-thrones-second-episode-steady-treme-season-two-premiere-down/90626)

[JonInMiddleGA]

The ratings held steady for the 2nd episode and in fact grew 0.1 in the 18-49 demographic, which as someone pointed out probably matters less for HBO since they don't sell ads, but a gain is still good.
Game of Thrones Renewed for a Second Season by HBO - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/26/game-of-thrones-second-episode-steady-treme-season-two-premiere-down/90626)

Meanwhile something called 'Treme lost nearly half it's audience vs last year's premiere. No connect between the two audiences maybe? (I have no clue, I can't say that I'd ever heard of 'Treme before today)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Meanwhile something called 'Treme lost nearly half it's audience vs last year's premiere. No connect between the two audiences maybe? (I have no clue, I can't say that I'd ever heard of 'Treme before today)

Treme is the show by the guy who did "The Wire", David Simon. It's about post-Katrina New Orleans.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The ratings held steady for the 2nd episode and in fact grew 0.1 in the 18-49 demographic, which as someone pointed out probably matters less for HBO since they don't sell ads, but a gain is still good. As a comparison, Boardwalk Empire's total viewers dropped 31% from its 1st to 2nd episodes.

Game of Thrones Renewed for a Second Season by HBO - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/26/game-of-thrones-second-episode-steady-treme-season-two-premiere-down/90626)

That is pretty good news. I was afraid a bunch of people would tune into the premiere just to see what it was all about and then not come back because it was "too confusing" or "too fantasy" or just because it didn't click with them.

[timmynausea]

Meanwhile something called 'Treme lost nearly half it's audience vs last year's premiere. No connect between the two audiences maybe? (I have no clue, I can't say that I'd ever heard of 'Treme before today)

Treme is made by the people that created the Wire. It's a serious/political/intellectual drama about New Orleans after Katrina. So yeah, putting harsh reality back to back with total fantasy seems like a poor match to me. Also, what show debuts a new season on Easter?

Anyway, the show was already down in the 600,000 range by the middle of the first season last year, so it looks worse when you compare the two premieres.

[Alan T]

I stopped watching Treme about 2-3 episodes into last season. Just didn't have any desire to continue watching it.

[cougarfreak]

That is pretty good news. I was afraid a bunch of people would tune into the premiere just to see what it was all about and then not come back because it was "too confusing" or "too fantasy" or just because it didn't click with them.

Especially since a LOT of people had free HBO the weekend of the premiere.

[Peregrine]

Personally I think the ratings are fine for the show. If it were another network, and not HBO, it might be something to be concerned with, but if the ratings stay stable (and more importantly keep a lot of fantasy fans subscribed to HBO when they might not otherwise be) I think HBO will be happy.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm impressed that many people that haven't read the books seem to be enjoying the show. Having read the books, I feel like I would be pretty lost on who is who and what is going on at this point if I hadn't and was just watching the show.

I was also a little put off by the Jaime/Jon scene, I guess it's just there to reinforce Jaime's character at this point? Not really sure you need to play up the fact that he's a dick after he just chucked a kid out a window, but...

I also agree on the Hound. I think the end of the Tyrion/Joffrey/Hound scene in the courtyard was rushed, as it looked like Clegane just took Tyrion's insults without putting up a fight. Quite disappointed by that, actually.

The more I think on Drogo and Dany, I think that this version of things is way more true to Drogo's character. Looking back at the books, why in the hell would Drogo be gentle with her at any point, ever? The only thing we're missing this way is in watching Dany attempt to please him: why is she doing this, if he is the cruel savage that he seems to be?

I'd be enjoying this even more if f***ing Comcast would fix my HBO High Definition channels.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Dola - Doesn't it seem that Theon is notably absent thus far? I mean, I know he's been there, and even spoken lines...but I'm pretty sure that his name hasn't even been mentioned, and we have seen absolutely nothing of his character yet. I am aware that he is not at all an integral part of the story as of yet, but I'd imagine they could begin building his character, if only a little.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dola - Doesn't it seem that Theon is notably absent thus far? I mean, I know he's been there, and even spoken lines...but I'm pretty sure that his name hasn't even been mentioned, and we have seen absolutely nothing of his character yet. I am aware that he is not at all an integral part of the story as of yet, but I'd imagine they could begin building his character, if only a little.

You could argue that Rob's character hasn't really been built up all that much yet either (more than Theon, but not all that much really).

[Vince, Pt. II]

You could argue that Rob's character hasn't really been built up all that much yet either (more than Theon, but not all that much really).

True, but he's been in it enough that we have the foundation laid - the scene with Jon in the courtyard, and with Cat and Maester Luwin in Bran's room in particular. Theon has had ample opportunity (specifically the scene where they found the Direwolves) where he could have had a line and someone drop his name, but nothing yet. I guess they may simply be leaving things streamlined, as he's completely irrelevant at this point.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It does feel like they are rushing through things, but given the amount of material they have to go through I don't think they really have any other choice.

I don't think there has been a good opportunity to explain who Theon is and why he's there. It is a bit of an involved story. I am sure there will be a scene where it comes out. They have established that he isn't a Stark, he's a bit of a jerk - his willingness to kill the wolf pups so quickly and his reply to Jon - but also willing to stand with Jon - the scene on the Godswood.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, the more I think on it, the more it makes sense. I'd imagine they'll flesh him out a little in a Robert - Ned discussion of the Greyjoy Rebellion.

One of my favorite things about these books is the complexity, and it is very difficult to get that right and retain an audience in the tv medium.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, the more I think on it, the more it makes sense. I'd imagine they'll flesh him out a little in a Robert - Ned discussion of the Greyjoy Rebellion.

One of my favorite things about these books is the complexity, and it is very difficult to get that right and retain an audience in the tv medium.

I agree. I love the complexity as well. I've read these books at least 4 times each and never get tired of thinking about all the relations and plots and schemes and learn something new and detailed each and every time in.

You knew that they would have to sacrifice a lot of that for the show. Not only would it be confusing, but that kind of stuff takes time to establish, put into context and flesh out. It also involves a cast of thousands and that, too, has to be reduced.

So long as the show keeps the essence of the books, which I believe it has done very well so far, I am happy. They are separate things in separate medium in my eyes and I enjoy each one for it what it is.

[MrBug708]

Syrio was great, I thought they nailed his character

[cschex]

Syrio was great, I thought they nailed his character

+1. Good episode overall, loved Littlefinger and Varys, but the last scene with Syrio made the episode.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Great episode last night.

1. The Wall. I thought they did a good job, in limited scenes, setting up the Jon/Grenn/Pyp relationship. Tyrion remains fantastic in each scene he's in. It was great to see characters like the Old Bear and Yoren on screen.

2. I loved all of the Jamie scenes. The scene between him and Ned in the throne room was fantastic. I loved the look on Jamie's face after Ned coldly shot down Jamie's suggestion that what he did to Aerys was justice for what he did to Ned' brother and father. He was so desperately seeking some validation for what he did and just got smacked down and then immediately went back on the offensive. Great seeing Barristan Selmy in the scene with Robert and Jamie. Addy continues to be a fantastic Robert.

3. Definitely looking forward to more Littlefinger.

4. I really liked the scene with Jorah and the Bloorider guy too. I forget which one he is, but I know at least one of Dany's bloodriders had a whip. I liked the interaction between him and the handmaiden as well.

5. Syrio Florel was one of the characters I have been looking forward to seeing the most. They nailed it. The scene was fantastic. It was very well shot, with the camera sort of spinning around to simulate the whole fluidity of the Water Dancer technique. And the shot of Ned watching and the sound of the wooden swords turning to the sound of steel swords and combat was an incredibly nice touch.

[Coffee Warlord]

We were kind of disappointed that the bloodrider instead of Dany ordered Viserys to walk. BUT...I think with this truncated timetable (you just can't replicated the hundreds of pages of buildup that books allow), they needed to wait a few more episodes to push Dany further towards being in charge. Having her "turn" on Viserys in episode 3 may just of been too soon.

And Tyrion is just stealing this show.

[MrBug708]

Pretty good article about episode 3

Game of Thrones recap: Lord Snow, Littlefinger and Back Alley Sally | Season 1 Episode 03 | EW.com (http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/game-of-thrones-episode-3/)

In other news, ratings went up 10%!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Pretty good article about episode 3

Game of Thrones recap: Lord Snow, Littlefinger and Back Alley Sally | Season 1 Episode 03 | EW.com (http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/game-of-thrones-episode-3/)

In other news, ratings went up 10%!!!

And we haven't even gotten to the good shit yet - we're still moving pieces into position. Man...this is gonna be so great!!

LMAO - that OtakuASSEMBLE guy is going to have a heart attack when things really start going down.

[Arles]

Yeah, this was one of my fav episodes so far. I haven't read any of the books, but really enjoy this series. I think it's been setup in a way that will draw in people who haven't read the books, but also only *slightly* frustrate the people who know the books well with what has been left out. That's a tough balance to achieve and it seems like the producers are well on their way to getting that result.

[Arles]

Quick sidebar, Jason Momoa (actor that plays Khal Drogo) will be the lead in the remake of Conan the Barbarian (coming out this summer).

[Grammaticus]

I thought they kind of missed it on the casting for Little Finger. Petry Baelish is supposed to be a charismatic, good looking, intelligent guy. Small in stature with one of those pointy beards. That guy on the show is, well...not that.

[MrBug708]

I thought that at first, but he seemed to be everything but having a super pointy beard.

[Grammaticus]

Maybe he will grow on me. In the book it seemed like he was one of the characters that sort of started out a little slow and built up a presence as the story progressed and some of the main characters took a subdued role.