Is NBC even trying anymore?

[RainMaker]

Have you seen some of the shows they've put out lately?

Rosie Live
My Own Worst Enemy
Knight Rider
Crusoe
America's Toughest Jobs
Bionic Woman

Now we have a couple new shows coming out:

Howie Do It
Momma's Boy

Seriously, this is the kind of stuff I would come up with if I was drunk and joking around with friends on what the worst shows I could possibly create.

[terpkristin]

Well, aren't Rosie Live and My Own Worst Enemy canceled?

Most broadcast TV sucks I'm finding. Yay for sports, cartoons, and Netflix.

/tk

[Lathum]

My own worst enemy was canceled?

link please?

[ISiddiqui]

We are talking about the network with Chuck, Heroes, the Office, and 30 Rock, right? And Friday Night Lights is coming back to it.

It may be the network that I most DVR during the week.

[terpkristin]

My own worst enemy was canceled?

link please?

Canceled My Own Worst Enemy Was Its Own Worst Enemy | The Underwire from Wired.com (http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/11/canceled-my-own.html)

/tk

[Lathum]

thats a drag, I really liked that show.

I think networks are to quick to pull the plug these days

[ISiddiqui]

Well the ratings for it were utterly abysmal.

[Raiders Army]

I wonder who thought giving an ugly fat lesbian a show would be a success. At least Roseanne was somewhat funny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wonder who thought giving an ugly fat lesbian a show would be a success. At least Roseanne was somewhat funny.

Probably would have been a hit for Bravo though.

[JeeberD]

Canceled My Own Worst Enemy Was Its Own Worst Enemy | The Underwire from Wired.com (http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/11/canceled-my-own.html)

/tk

Thank god. My wife makes me watch it with her...she's had a crush on Christian Slater since she was like 12.

What's this about Friday Night Lights coming back?!?!?

[ISiddiqui]

It comes back on January, I believe. Showing the eps that we showing this fall on the satellite only network.

[Alan T]

I think NBC is just behind Fox for the station with the most shows I watch. I catch Chuck, Heroes and various Law and orders every week. I still occasionally watch ER even though not as much these days.

I loved Journeyman and was sad they got rid of it, and probably would have given Crusoe a shot if they hadn't put it on when they did in the schedule (Didn't they put it on Saturday nights or something rediculous?)

If there was a station that is pretty much never on for me, it would be ABC. I can't think of any show other than Lost which I have watched on ABC in at least 5 years.

[Matthean]

Well, aren't Rosie Live and My Own Worst Enemy canceled?

Bionic Woman was also canned last year so it was only around for one season. I doubt Knight Rider last long as well. Do they put out crap? Yes, but I can easily ramble off a bunch of crap that's not only still on, but heavily promoted on other networks.

[Honolulu_Blue]

We are talking about the network with Chuck, Heroes, the Office, and 30 Rock, right? And Friday Night Lights is coming back to it.

It may be the network that I most DVR during the week.

I am in the same boat. I know NBC is struggling and is a distance last place in terms of ratings and all, but I record four shows every week: Heroes (which, admittedly, sucks), Terminator, The Office, and 30 Rock. Three of the four shows I watch are NBC shows. So, they are at least doing soemthing right.

[JeeberD]

It comes back on January, I believe. Showing the eps that we showing this fall on the satellite only network.

Awesome. I downloaded them a couple of weeks ago but haven't gotten around to watching them. I think I'll wait to watch it on the big(ger) screen, now...

[MikeVic]

NBC has the most shows that I watch, so I was surprised when I found out they suck with ratings.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Have you seen some of the shows they've put out lately?

Rosie Live
My Own Worst Enemy
Knight Rider
Crusoe
America's Toughest Jobs
Bionic Woman

Now we have a couple new shows coming out:

Howie Do It
Momma's Boy

Seriously, this is the kind of stuff I would come up with if I was drunk and joking around with friends on what the worst shows I could possibly create.
Hell, maybe I should pitch them with my TV show idea. I wasn't drunk and joking around with friends when I was coming up with it, but it was truly terrible, probably just as bad as "Howie Do It." So here's the idea:

Find a person who openly admits to hating a certain group of people. I mean, this person hates these people, whether it's atheists, hippies, unwed mothers, whatever. So you find this person and offer them $500 to sit down in a restaurant and eat one meal with someone from this group. Then you sit these two people at the table and bring one bowl of soup. Now, they can each use a separate spoon - I'm not trying to shame anybody here - but they have to both eat from the same bowl. If they finish the bowl, the contestant gets $100.

Move on to the entree round. It's a plate of spaghetti with two forks. If they finish the plate, the contestant gets another $300. Finally, there's the dessert round. Oh, yes. Wait for it... Yes, it's a single bowl of ice cream with two spoons in it. That's worth the final $100. Maybe you can add in a bonus round. Put a cherry in the ice cream. Have the "hated person" hold the cherry stem in their mouth, and the contestant has to bite off the cherry while the other person holds the stem.

I was about to put that idea into the trash where it belonged, but I think NBC just might greenlight this.

[sterlingice]

Needs a snappy title, Pumpy. C'mon, think like a tv executive ("well, first I'm going to remove half of my brain- you know, the half with the thinking and morals part")

SI

[MikeVic]

Hell, maybe I should pitch them with my TV show idea. I wasn't drunk and joking around with friends when I was coming up with it, but it was truly terrible, probably just as bad as "Howie Do It." So here's the idea:

Find a person who openly admits to hating a certain group of people. I mean, this person hates these people, whether it's atheists, hippies, unwed mothers, whatever. So you find this person and offer them $500 to sit down in a restaurant and eat one meal with someone from this group. Then you sit these two people at the table and bring one bowl of soup. Now, they can each use a separate spoon - I'm not trying to shame anybody here - but they have to both eat from the same bowl. If they finish the bowl, the contestant gets $100.

Move on to the entree round. It's a plate of spaghetti with two forks. If they finish the plate, the contestant gets another $300. Finally, there's the dessert round. Oh, yes. Wait for it... Yes, it's a single bowl of ice cream with two spoons in it. That's worth the final $100. Maybe you can add in a bonus round. Put a cherry in the ice cream. Have the "hated person" hold the cherry stem in their mouth, and the contestant has to bite off the cherry while the other person holds the stem.

I was about to put that idea into the trash where it belonged, but I think NBC just might greenlight this.


I think they'll be showing this during the summer, to give it a trial run.

[Schmidty]

To their credit, they have my current favorite show - "Chuck".

[Chief Rum]

I think I have mentioned this before, but if not, here it is. I have also long had an idea for a crappy reality show.

Basically, grab ten hot young women under the age of 22, and put them in a house together for a month. The house has one bathroom and one phone.

Take away their cellphones. Lock the door and when there is only one left, unlock it.

Ratings gold!

[MikeVic]

I think I have mentioned this before, but if not, here it is. I have also long had an idea for a crappy reality show.

Basically, grab ten hot young women under the age of 22, and put them in a house together for a month. The house has one bathroom and one phone.

Take away their cellphones. Lock the door and when there is only one left, unlock it.

Ratings gold!

I'd watch this if it had a mix of young girls. I mean, it'll have a couple spoiled bitches, a couple country women, a couple urban women, etc... different races too. That'd be a great show. But they'd all have to be hot.

[sabotai]

I think I have mentioned this before, but if not, here it is. I have also long had an idea for a crappy reality show.

Basically, grab ten hot young women under the age of 22, and put them in a house together for a month. The house has one bathroom and one phone.

Take away their cellphones. Lock the door and when there is only one left, unlock it.

Ratings gold!

They would all go crazy and kill each other within 30 minutes.

Better make it PPV.

[GrantDawg]

If there was a station that is pretty much never on for me, it would be ABC. I can't think of any show other than Lost which I have watched on ABC in at least 5 years.


It is CBS for me. I watch absolutely nothing on CBS, and haven't in quite awhile, yet it is the most watched channel. *Shrug*

[mattlanta]

I'm waiting for that one show that will save us all!

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm waiting for that one show that will save us all!
I know, I know, I'm working on the pitch to NBC right now. Hold your horses!

[cuervo72]

Hell, maybe I should pitch them with my TV show idea. I wasn't drunk and joking around with friends when I was coming up with it, but it was truly terrible, probably just as bad as "Howie Do It." So here's the idea:

Find a person who openly admits to hating a certain group of people. I mean, this person hates these people, whether it's atheists, hippies, unwed mothers, whatever.

Hey, if you can somehow get JiMGa in front of the camera.

[RendeR]

Hey, if you can somehow get JiMGa in front of the camera.


Ok I just snorted pepsi Max out of my nose, thank you OH so much cuervo :lol:

[Cringer]

All the shows listed in the first post suck, except My Own Worst Enemy, I enjoyed the show and can't wait to see what horrible crap they replace it with.

NBC does have good stuff as other pointed out though. Thursday night is a decent night with the Office, and the Katt and Kim show or whatever it's called is ok enough to watch so far, as is My Name is Earl. I am a big fan of Life if they stop moving what night it is on for a while, and of course Heroes.

I can't even think of what CBS and ABC have on that I watch on a regular basis, though that show with the nerdy guys is funny but I can't remember the name or when it's on. :)

Fox has the hot local news anchor and weather girl, so that is must watch TV for me usually.

[Crapshoot]

The Office, 30 Rock, and Chuck - all fairly enjoyable (the first 2 are obviously top notch, and Chuck is fun). More than I record on any other network.

Other DVR shows:
- How I Met Your Mother
- Pushing Daisies

[DaddyTorgo]

All the shows listed in the first post suck, except My Own Worst Enemy, I enjoyed the show and can't wait to see what horrible crap they replace it with.

NBC does have good stuff as other pointed out though. Thursday night is a decent night with the Office, and the Katt and Kim show or whatever it's called is ok enough to watch so far, as is My Name is Earl. I am a big fan of Life if they stop moving what night it is on for a while, and of course Heroes.

I can't even think of what CBS and ABC have on that I watch on a regular basis, though that show with the nerdy guys is funny but I can't remember the name or when it's on. :)

Fox has the hot local news anchor and weather girl, so that is must watch TV for me usually.

Big Bang Theory - it's on in 4 minutes (Mondays at 8pm EST)

[Cringer]

Yup, I almost came to post it after I happened on it while flipping. Good show that I wish I caught more often. One day I will have a DVR.

[Neon_Chaos]

Yay for Big Bang Theory!

(although it's slowly becoming the Sheldon show)

[RainMaker]

Apparently NBC is moving Leno to 10pm EST timeslot. So you'll have 3 and a half hours of talk shows at night.

Leno 10-11
Local News 11-11:30
Conan 11:30-12:30
Fallon 12:30 - 1:30
Daly 1:30 - 2:00

[Neon_Chaos]

Apparently NBC is moving Leno to 10pm EST timeslot. So you'll have 3 and a half hours of talk shows at night.

Leno 10-11
Local News 11-11:30
Conan 11:30-12:30
Fallon 12:30 - 1:30
Daly 1:30 - 2:00

Good move by NBC. There was speculation as to where Leno would go once Conan takes over the Tonight Show in June next year. At least they're completely avoiding giving away a home-grown talent to other networks to possibly go head-to-head with the Tonight Show with Conan O'brien.

[saldana]

Bionic Woman was also canned last year so it was only around for one season. I doubt Knight Rider last long as well. Do they put out crap? Yes, but I can easily ramble off a bunch of crap that's not only still on, but heavily promoted on other networks.

knight rider is not long for this earth...they apparenly only contracted the actors for 13 episodes, so since the contracts are up for all the people that run the organization they work for, they arent renewing them. instead, they are going back to just Mike, the hot chick, and the 2 dorks roaming around the country helping random people instead of working for the government.

[sterlingice]

Apparently NBC is moving Leno to 10pm EST timeslot. So you'll have 3 and a half hours of talk shows at night.

Leno 10-11
Local News 11-11:30
Conan 11:30-12:30
Fallon 12:30 - 1:30
Daly 1:30 - 2:00

Jimmy Fallon is replacing Conan? Ugh

SI

[Matthean]

Jimmy Fallon is replacing Conan? Ugh

SI

The bigger shocker is The Roots being his band.

[sterlingice]

So does that mean the Max Weinberg 7 are moving to Conan's new show?

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

So does that mean the Max Weinberg 7 are moving to Conan's new show?

Apparently yes on Max (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04122008/tv/max_to_keep_beat_in_la_106128.htm), unclear about the other six.

[kcchief19]

This is bad news for Conan. A talk show like Leno's has a low ceiling in prime time -- he'll be lucky to get 6 million viewers. And have you seen the competition? Leno vs. CSI: NY, CSI: Miami and Without a Trace is bad news -- his demo is watching CBS. If Leno pulls in 6 million (or less) and CSI is pulling in 13 million, that's not exactly a victory.

This is Leno-Letterman all over again. NBC tried offering Letterman prime time to keep him and even offered him a deal just like Conan's that would have given him the Tonight Show at the end of the Leno's contract. Letterman didn't go for it because he knew that if Leno was a hit NBC would reneg on the deal.

It's bad news for Conan because if he tanks in the Tonight Show slot, NBC still has Leno. They can move him back to the 11:30 slot and send Conan out the door as damaged goods.

Technically it's evil genius by NBC because they are able to give Conan his shot but still have Leno there to take over if needed. Then again, the only reason NBC can afford to do this is because their prime lineup is garbage. Sadly, 6 million viewers at 10 pm is a decent number for them on most nights.

[Greyroofoo]

As a viewer I like moving Leno to 10pm. I enjoy both Leno and Conan but I can't stay up late enough to watch Conan. So now I'll be able to see them both regularly.

[RendeR]

I can't believe Conan O'brien still has a job. The man is an idiot with no real talent. I hear him speak and I want to blow up my TV.

The only late night show I ever watch at all is Furgeson. And thats pretty much only if there isn't a movie or sporting event on worth watching.

Always hated Leno/Letterman.O'brien too. Then again I grew up watching Carson and have never seen any of them show even the lsightest ability to entertain the way Johhny used to.

[RainMaker]

This is bad news for Conan. A talk show like Leno's has a low ceiling in prime time -- he'll be lucky to get 6 million viewers. And have you seen the competition? Leno vs. CSI: NY, CSI: Miami and Without a Trace is bad news -- his demo is watching CBS. If Leno pulls in 6 million (or less) and CSI is pulling in 13 million, that's not exactly a victory.

He doesn't have to compete with those shows though. The show costs much less than a TV show. I've read that it's less than 20% of the cost of an hour of drama. All he has to do is grab half the audience and it's worth it for NBC.

But another important aspect is that new programming only accounts for half the year on most networks. Leno will be on 46 weeks. That means he will have a huge advantage during re-run weeks.

[Fidatelo]

I'm not a huge fan of Leno, but I'll watch Leno over all but a handful of existing primetime shows.

[kcchief19]

He doesn't have to compete with those shows though. The show costs much less than a TV show. I've read that it's less than 20% of the cost of an hour of drama. All he has to do is grab half the audience and it's worth it for NBC.
On a per hour basis, that might be close to right. There is no way Leno will get half the audience of CSI on average. 6 million viewers is at the end high end -- I think he'll probably draw fewer viewers than he gets now, which is about 4.8 million. Think about this -- Rosie O'Donnell's variety show was a colossal failure and it drew more viewers than Leno does on average. If his show is drawing a third of a third of the ratings of CSI at a quarter of the cost, that's not a victory.
But another important aspect is that new programming only accounts for half the year on most networks. Leno will be on 46 weeks. That means he will have a huge advantage during re-run weeks.
That swings both ways -- if they rerun Leno shows in prime time it will get crushed to a pulp, especially if Leno is on vacation against first-run programs.

Two things I throught were interesting from Jeff Zucker, who is bound and determined to get fired by Don Geiss:

* In talking about how NBC might program less than 22 hours of prime time a week to cut costs, Zucker said three of NBC's competitors don't and one doesn't have program seven days a week. The three competitors are Fox, CW and MyNetworkTV and MyNetworkTV only has six day programming. The difference between NBC and Fox is American Idol. Fox has a half dozen shows that beat anything on NBC in the ratings other than Sunday Night Football, which right now is carrying NBC. Take SNF out of the ratings and NBC is in the crapper. Is Zucker essentially saying NBC is a second-tier network and can't (or won't) compete with the CBS, ABC and Fox?

* Zucker said Leno is "DVR proof" in that people watch the show and don't record it to skip commercials making it more attractive to advertisers. If any show on TV is DVR proof, I would agree that it's Leno. If you are DVRing Leno, you have serious problems.

[DaddyTorgo]

why is leno dvr-proof??

[DaddyTorgo]

ugh - and i didn't mention - i hate the idea of leno in primetime. as much as you want to say it makes good business sense or whatever, it's essentially NBC mailing it in, throwing in the towel.

and it sets a bad precedent

[Schmidty]

It's just TV. Who cares.

I don't mean that to be a smart-ass, but seriously, TV will always be changing - for the better, for the worse, etc. If every format stayed the same forever, we'd be stuck with something like......the text-sim world.

[Chief Rum]

This will revolutionize the way I don't watch talk show TV.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There is no way Leno will get half the audience of CSI on average.

Actually he should, or very close to it. CSI:Miami is only pulling a 4 around a these days, Leno should be able to get around a 2 by pulling only half the share he currently gets (for the unfamiliar, share = percentage of TVs in use at a given time where rating = percentage of all TV's period).

In other words, he can lose half his regular audience & still exceed the total just by picking up strays from the larger pool of viewers at 10p vs 1130p.

Is Zucker essentially saying NBC is a second-tier network and can't (or won't) compete with the CBS, ABC and Fox?

If so, he deserves credit for honesty. A lot of buyers already look at them that way for large chunks of their programming. If we're looking for older viewers we head to CBS, if we're looking younger/female we head to Fox or ABC. If we're looking to spend some remnant budget, we look to NBC.

edit to add: Truth is, there really may not be room for four "major" networks at this point. Once total cable viewership exceeded total broadcast viewership a few years back, there was a good bit less water in the pool and it seemed at least possible that we would eventually return to a Big Three (remember folks, Fox hasn't always been in the picture). NBC Universal has been bleeding money, just laid off 500 employees last week, eliminated the production of pilots for new shows entirely last spring, has been selling as many product placements as possible to defray production costs, and is getting closer and closer to having as many US viewers for Univision as for NBC. If that isn't a second tier network, well ... they're closer to being CW than ABC.

[kcchief19]

Actually he should, or very close to it. CSI:Miami is only pulling a 4 around a these days, Leno should be able to get around a 2 by pulling only half the share he currently gets (for the unfamiliar, share = percentage of TVs in use at a given time where rating = percentage of all TV's period).
I'll buy Leno getting a 2 share but are you sure about CSI:Miami's ratings? Are you just looking at a specific demo? The chart I've been looking at shows them with a 15 share so far this season for both the New York and Miami versions and a 13 for Without a Trace, all at 10 p.m. Leno's currently getting a 5 share in late night.

Leno has always outperformed my expectations, mostly because I hold a dim view of him as a performer. But a 5 share in late night is the same as a 5 share in prime time. A 5 share at 10 p.m. would be just under 5 million viewers. A 2-3 share -- which I think is likely -- it would be the lowest rated prime time show on the network. He might get beat by Gossip Girl.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll buy Leno getting a 2 share

Actually I was prediciting about a 4 share or roughly half the around 8 he seems to get in late night. A 4 share (depending upon the night) would give him about a 2.5 rating.

ut are you sure about CSI:Miami's ratings? Are you just looking at a specific demo? The chart I've been looking at shows them with a 15 share so far this season for both the New York and Miami versions and a 13 for Without a Trace, all at 10 p.m. Leno's currently getting a 5 share in late night.

A 15 share for CSI is probably correct, it works out to around a 4 to 5 rating I believe. Something I looked at earlier put Leno in the 8's for share but it was a quick look at a few days so maybe I caught him on a good week or something (although the rating appeared slightly lower than his average).

But a 5 share in late night is the same as a 5 share in prime time.

Nope, you've got that backwards. Share varies with the number of TV's in use at a given time, it's number of viewers divided by number of persons watching television at that time. Rating is comparable across all dayparts as it's simply number of viewers divided by total viewers in the given universe (regardless of whether they're watching TV, sleeping, working, whatever)

edit to add: FTR, that last bit wasn't meant to sound snippy or anything. It can sometimes take a second to remember which is which even when you work with the stuff everyday.

[kcchief19]

If so, he deserves credit for honesty. A lot of buyers already look at them that way for large chunks of their programming. If we're looking for older viewers we head to CBS, if we're looking younger/female we head to Fox or ABC. If we're looking to spend some remnant budget, we look to NBC.

edit to add: Truth is, there really may not be room for four "major" networks at this point. Once total cable viewership exceeded total broadcast viewership a few years back, there was a good bit less water in the pool and it seemed at least possible that we would eventually return to a Big Three (remember folks, Fox hasn't always been in the picture). NBC Universal has been bleeding money, just laid off 500 employees last week, eliminated the production of pilots for new shows entirely last spring, has been selling as many product placements as possible to defray production costs, and is getting closer and closer to having as many US viewers for Univision as for NBC. If that isn't a second tier network, well ... they're closer to being CW than ABC.
Sadly, this is true. NBC has no plan to get better and really doesn't know what their doing. NBC just has a bizarre lineup. I think The Office and 30 Rock work together well but the rest of their shows are just a huge conflict. Nothing fits together and flows well. They do reality, but they do bad reality.

But what makes it all the more baffling is that we're really talking about NBC Universal -- a company that produces Monk, Psych, Project Runway, Top Chef, Battlestar Galactica, Burn Notice, In Plain Sight and The Starter Wife -- a collection of shows that are almost all more critically acclaimed than anything on their air right now. Most of these shows usually dominate their time slots on cable and occassionally even beat network fare.

NBC has tried given test runs of those first five shows in prime time with stale reruns with more success than you'd think. NBC wrote off Monk and Psych's runs last spring as failures despite the fact that a rerun of Monk beat reruns of The Simpons and King of the Hill in the same time slot. Why they think that is a failure I have no idea.

Given how much trouble NBC has had developing shows on their network, I have no idea why they aren't promoting their successful cable shows to the big leagues. Reruns of Monk and Psych were drawing an average of 5 million viewers on NBC. Originals of 30 Rock and The Office are only drawing 7-8 million some nights. Both shows beat their competition on NBC in total viewers and their demos are spectacular. Heck, Burn Notice is in one of the toughest time slots on TV and it has actually won the night against cable and network TV on occasion among men.

All of these shows would certainly have bumps in their audience from their cable draws if NBC aired originals on a regular schedule.

[kcchief19]

Nope, you've got that backwards. Share varies with the number of TV's in use at a given time, it's number of viewers divided by number of persons watching television at that time. Rating is comparable across all dayparts as it's simply number of viewers divided by total viewers in the given universe (regardless of whether they're watching TV, sleeping, working, whatever)

edit to add: FTR, that last bit wasn't meant to sound snippy or anything. It can sometimes take a second to remember which is which even when you work with the stuff everyday.
Sorry, that was my bad ... I left out a very critical word. I meant to say a 5 share in late night is NOT the same as a 5 in prime time. :) Makes more sense, eh?

I'm looking at this chart which I believe to be reliable:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||season,00.html

Season to date has CSI: Miami with a 9.6 rating, a 15 share and 14.95 million viewers.

Here are the late night ratings form the November sweeps:
NBC “Tonight,” 1.3 rating, 5 share, 4.924 million viewers
CBS “Late Show,” 1.1/5, 4.050 million
ABC “Nightline,” 1.3/5*

I admit, I'm pretty surprised at how low the share numbers are for those three shows combined. Only 15% of the people watching TV are watching those shows? What in the hell are the other 85% watching? Granted I think 1% are watching Colbert and 2% are watching Adult Swim. After that ... I'm drawing a blank.

If Leno posts a 1.3 rating in prime time, it'll be a disaster. Rosie O drew a 1.2. I just don't see him building on his late night audience.

[Scoobz0202]

why is leno dvr-proof??


"

[Young Drachma]

Seems like a coup of a move to keep a property that they'd certainly have lost to another network. Even if it fails, it's a low risk move for NBC. I never watch him, but...it's certainly a bold move.

[DaddyTorgo]

i can't fathom leno building on his late-night audience honestly. i think for better or worse most people have a "set roster" of shows that they watch during a week or any given night, and throwing a 5 nights a week show into primetime isn't going to fly. sure maybe you get one or two nights a week depending on his guests (but there's a fairly finite number of currently-hot guest stars so how they allocate them starts to become a problem), but I don't seriously think you can hope to get 5 nights a week of people watching your network from 10-12:30am just by offering them essentially two hours of the same thing with a half hour of news in the middle. It'll get stale very fast. Are Leno and Conan even going to be able to crack different jokes??

And I don't think Leno is at all DVR-proof. Really do you know anyone anymore who comes into work and goes 'man did you see Leno last night? Wow that was awesome." Because I sure as hell don't.

[Butter]

DVR-proof meaning that people won't DVR Leno's show and skip the commercials, I assume. If they watch it, they're going to watch it "live".

[JonInMiddleGA]

DVR-proof meaning that people won't DVR Leno's show and skip the commercials, I assume. If they watch it, they're going to watch it "live".

+1

It's not a show considered to have much appeal beyond it's live run, you either watch it or you don't.

[DaddyTorgo]

+1

It's not a show considered to have much appeal beyond it's live run, you either watch it or you don't.

to me that's just fundamentally ignorant on the part of advertisers. I think pretty much everyone with a DVR has figured out that you can start a half hour show roughly 9 minutes late and an hour long show roughly 17 minutes late and be caught up perfectly at the end. Even if they haven't figured out the exact amount of commercials I think everyone with a DVR realizes that you can start a show late and not have to watch the commercials, and I don't see why Leno would be immune to that...particularly in a more conventional 10pm time slot.

[BrianD]

to me that's just fundamentally ignorant on the part of advertisers. I think pretty much everyone with a DVR has figured out that you can start a half hour show roughly 9 minutes late and an hour long show roughly 17 minutes late and be caught up perfectly at the end. Even if they haven't figured out the exact amount of commercials I think everyone with a DVR realizes that you can start a show late and not have to watch the commercials, and I don't see why Leno would be immune to that...particularly in a more conventional 10pm time slot.

I can't believe many people watch TV that way. If you care enough to have caught up by the end of the show, you probably aren't going to wait 17 minutes in just so you can miss commercials. Most people will record the whole show to watch whenever, or possibly catch a show in progress if they happen to have time for it in the middle. Generally people won't record a show they are planning to watch live. I'd be very surprised if Leno got recorded often beyond someone wanting to see a particular celebrity interviewed.

[Logan]

I think DT misunderstood a bit...think more along the lines of "using a DVR to watch it at a later date" instead of "using a DVR to skip commercials."

If I'm up, I'll watch Conan as it's one of my favorite shows. But I won't DVR it and then catch up on it when I'm home from work or on the weekends. It's the show's premise of more or less talking about the current day's news that removes that desire from people. But I'll DVR a bunch of other comedy/drama types because it doesn't really matter when I watch it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think DT misunderstood a bit...think more along the lines of "using a DVR to watch it at a later date" instead of "using a DVR to skip commercials."

+1

[kcchief19]

to me that's just fundamentally ignorant on the part of advertisers. I think pretty much everyone with a DVR has figured out that you can start a half hour show roughly 9 minutes late and an hour long show roughly 17 minutes late and be caught up perfectly at the end. Even if they haven't figured out the exact amount of commercials I think everyone with a DVR realizes that you can start a show late and not have to watch the commercials, and I don't see why Leno would be immune to that...particularly in a more conventional 10pm time slot.
That's not how most people watch shows on DVR though. They DVR them and watch them later. If I'm home and 30 Rock comes on, I'll watch 30 Rock, not do something else until 8:39 and then watch. If I DVR it, it's because I'm watching it another time completely, not just to time delay by a few minutes.

The reality of late night shows is that most people fall asleep while watching them. No one is going to any great lengths to watch Leno. Like Jon said, if it's on while they're going to bed, they'll watch.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That's not how most people watch shows on DVR though. They DVR them and watch them later. If I'm home and 30 Rock comes on, I'll watch 30 Rock, not do something else until 8:39 and then watch. If I DVR it, it's because I'm watching it another time completely, not just to time delay by a few minutes.

Maybe that's not how most people do it, but that's how I do it. I know I've done that with "Lost" on a number of occassions. We just did other stuff until around 9:40 or 10:40 or whatever and then started watching it.

Typically, even if I'm home with nothing to do, I will just do something else and then watch my shows in the morning.

Other than sports and the rare occassions (maybe once, twice a year tops) when I get together with friends to watch a show, I can't remember the last time I watched a show "live".

[cuervo72]

I do it all the time with sporting events. I'll put the tuner on the correct station, take care of whatever I need to do (this could be going out to lunch after church, getting the kids ready for bed Sun/Mon night, etc), then catch up later.

For non-sporting events I'll tape the show then watch it later.

[Logan]

Just as a side note...I don't know if it's exclusive to the three DVRs in my apartment, but the TWC DVR sucks so much when it comes to resuming from fast-forwarding (I hit stop and then it continues to fast-forward a bit more so it goes into the show, then I rewind a bit too much, and then go forward too much again, etc) that even when I'm watching a show on DVR, I usually end up sitting through commercials just so I don't want to kill myself from dealing with that hassle.

[GrantDawg]

Maybe that's not how most people do it, but that's how I do it. I know I've done that with "Lost" on a number of occassions. We just did other stuff until around 9:40 or 10:40 or whatever and then started watching it.

Typically, even if I'm home with nothing to do, I will just do something else and then watch my shows in the morning.

Other than sports and the rare occassions (maybe once, twice a year tops) when I get together with friends to watch a show, I can't remember the last time I watched a show "live".


I never watch anything live either (except sports). But, this show would not be one I'd wait to watch. If I watched, it would be just to kill some time before bed. I can see how it will work for NBC, but it just sucks because it means less actual programming. Of course, they basically did this with Dateline a few years back.

[BrianD]

Just as a side note...I don't know if it's exclusive to the three DVRs in my apartment, but the TWC DVR sucks so much when it comes to resuming from fast-forwarding (I hit stop and then it continues to fast-forward a bit more so it goes into the show, then I rewind a bit too much, and then go forward too much again, etc) that even when I'm watching a show on DVR, I usually end up sitting through commercials just so I don't want to kill myself from dealing with that hassle.

If your TW DVR is like mine, you probably have a button that will jump backwards 3-5 seconds. This works pretty well to back you up without rewinding too far. You can also stop the FF process with this button so you always jump back 5 seconds to cover the reaction time. Also make sure you fast forward at a speed you can handle. My DVR has 4 speeds of FF but I always use speed three to get the timing down. After a while you can generally feel the amount of time needed to get past a commercial break.

[SirFozzie]

Logan: That's why I love my tivo and it's programmable 30 second skip :)

While watching a playback enter the following code:

Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select

(you should hear three dings when you do this.)

Then your skip to beginning/end button (kinda looks like ( >| ) becomes a thirty second skip button :)

Not only is it great for screaming through commercials, I've found it useful to speed through taped football games. As soon as the play ends, hit the button, and usually you're at the next play (usually thirty seconds or so between plays)

[BrianD]

Logan: That's why I love my tivo and it's programmable 30 second skip :)

While watching a playback enter the following code:

Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select

(you should hear three dings when you do this.)

Then your skip to beginning/end button (kinda looks like ( >| ) becomes a thirty second skip button :)

Not only is it great for screaming through commercials, I've found it useful to speed through taped football games. As soon as the play ends, hit the button, and usually you're at the next play (usually thirty seconds or so between plays)

I miss that functionality with my old ReplayTV. It actually had a 30 second skip button and a 5 second replay button. Program a nice little macro for 4 30-second skips and it was practically a one-touch commercial skip.

Thinking about that, with some playing I could probably program the TW DVR to do something similar by 3-speed FF with a short delay before turning back off...

[Desnudo]

It seems like there's a lot worse shows out there than My Own Worst Enemy. Slater is a decent actor and I thought the bald guy was funny.

[RainMaker]

Sorry, that was my bad ... I left out a very critical word. I meant to say a 5 share in late night is NOT the same as a 5 in prime time. :) Makes more sense, eh?

I'm looking at this chart which I believe to be reliable:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||season,00.html

Season to date has CSI: Miami with a 9.6 rating, a 15 share and 14.95 million viewers.

Here are the late night ratings form the November sweeps:
NBC “Tonight,” 1.3 rating, 5 share, 4.924 million viewers
CBS “Late Show,” 1.1/5, 4.050 million
ABC “Nightline,” 1.3/5*

I admit, I'm pretty surprised at how low the share numbers are for those three shows combined. Only 15% of the people watching TV are watching those shows? What in the hell are the other 85% watching? Granted I think 1% are watching Colbert and 2% are watching Adult Swim. After that ... I'm drawing a blank.

If Leno posts a 1.3 rating in prime time, it'll be a disaster. Rosie O drew a 1.2. I just don't see him building on his late night audience.

Late night talk shows have been getting hit hard because that is typically the time people watch their DVR'd shows. Apparently they've been seeing a good drop in it as DVR has gotten more popular. But even though the ratings aren't good, they are when you factor in the costs of producing the show.

[Logan]

Interesting DVR tips, thanks guys.

[Logan]

Now we have a couple new shows coming out:

Momma's Boy

Seriously, this is the kind of stuff I would come up with if I was drunk and joking around with friends on what the worst shows I could possibly create.

Fuckin A, I just found out that a kid I grew up with, Rob Kluge, is going to be on the show with his mother, possibly for the premiere (which could be the entire series run I guess).

I haven't seen him or his mother in a really long time, but I'm 99% sure this is being played up for TV. Not that it makes it okay.

Momma's Boys - Momma's Boys "Trailer" - Video - NBC.com (http://www.nbc.com/Mommas_Boys/video/clips/mommas-boys-trailer/853741)

[Thomkal]

Fuckin A, I just found out that a kid I grew up with, Rob Kluge, is going to be on the show with his mother, possibly for the premiere (which could be the entire series run I guess).

I haven't seen him or his mother in a really long time, but I'm 99% sure this is being played up for TV. Not that it makes it okay.

Momma's Boys - Momma's Boys "Trailer" - Video - NBC.com (http://www.nbc.com/Mommas_Boys/video/clips/mommas-boys-trailer/853741)

No relation to me, I promise. :)

[cuervo72]

Heh.

[Logan]

I didn't realize the same guys would be on for the entire run of the show.

I made it about 15 minutes, enough to see the shots of Marlboro and to realize that watching any more would make my eyes bleed.