November 2008 Console Sales Figures (featuring broken records)

[Big Fo]

November numbers and top ten are out. NPD figures are USA only as always.

Hardware: ....... November ..... (October).... Lifetime

Wii .................2.04M....... 803K .... ... 15.4m
Nintendo DS ......1.57M.. ...491K .... ... 24.4m
Xbox 360 ...........836k... ....371K .... ... 12.4m
PSP ................ 421k......... 193K .... ... 13.2m
PlayStation 3 .....378k...... 190K .... ... 6.1m
PlayStation 2 ......206k..... 136K .... ... 43.0m

Software:

GEARS OF WAR 2* (360) ............... ........ 1.56m
CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR* (360) ... 1.41m
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE (WII) .................... 796K
WII FIT (WII) ...................................... 697K
MARIO KART (WII) ............................... 637K
CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR (PS3) ..... 597K
GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* (WII) .......... 475K
LEFT 4 DEAD (360) .............. ................. 410K
RESISTANCE 2* (PS3) ................ .......... 385K
WII MUSIC (WII) ................... ................297K

(*includes CE, GOTY editions, bundles, etc. but not those bundled with hardware)

Others:

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King (PC) .... 1.4m
Fable II (360) ................ 184k



Overall

"The video games industry continues to set a blistering sales pace, overall, with total month revenues 10% higher than last November, even with 7 less days of post-Thanksgiving shopping this year as compared to last."

"With $16B realized for the year so far through November, the industry is still on pace to achieve total year revenues of $22B in the U.S."

"One reason for the continued strength of the industry compared to other forms of entertainment comes from a number of sources. Certainly, the expanded audience for gaming due to the availability of a wider variety of compelling content is a strong contributor. Economic factors are also at play given that a video game is a relatively inexpensive form of entertainment for the hours of value it provides. Our Consumer Spending Indicator shows that video games is the category consumers are least likely to cut back on this holiday."


Hardware

"All three of the newer generation console systems have something to brag about. The expanded supply of Wii systems at retail was clearly evident in the sales figures this month. The 360 realized a nice unit sales bump over last November and the PS3 year-to-date unit sales growth is impressive. It's clear there can be more multiple victors this generation and while price is certainly a strong factor, particularly as the current economic situation continues to prevail, the most important factor that will drive success in 2009 will be the line-up of compelling games that will keep consumers involved in the industry."


Software

"Reinforcing that at this point in the cycle, content is once again king, year-to-date games sales growth is 31%. The top-10 list of games shows just how varied the most popular games have become."

"Gears of War II certainly didn't disappoint, achieving a 13% attach rate to the Xbox 360 install base. These are the types of platform exclusive games that are so important to the continued strength of any given platform."

"After a soft introduction last month, Wii Music came back to score a spot on the top 10 list for the month. I think this is a testament to the power of a comprehensive marketing campaign and the very strong brand equity that the Wii platform enjoys."

"We would be remiss not to point out the strength of PC game sales this month as lead by the release of the latest World of Warcraft expansion pack. Wrath of the Lich King sold over 1.4 million units in the U.S. during its debut month at retail."

Lifetime software:

Software LTD's:
Wii Play: .......... 7.929.501
Mario Kart Wii:.... 4.013.000
Wii Fit: ............ 3.530.134
Wii Music: ......... 378.000
Fable II ............... 974,000

Best selling single SKU titles of all time (since NPD began tracking in the mid to late 90's, otherwise Super Mario Bros. 3 would be listed among other older games):

Wii Play (7.9m)
GTA SA PS2 (6.9m)
GTA VC PS2 (6.8m)
Super Mario 64 (5.9m)
GTA3 PS2 (5.6m)

Industry numbers:

Dollar Sales Nov-07 Nov-08 CHG YTD Nov 07 YTD Nov 08 CHG

Video Games $2.64B $2.91B 10% $13.14B $16.04B 22%
VG Hardware $1.1B $1.21B 10% $5.22B $5.93B 14%
VG Software $1.31B $1.45B 11% $6.28B $8.21B 31%
VG Accessories $238.6M $255.4M 7% $1.64B $1.91B 17%


The Wii smashed the previous November record of 1.3 million consoles sold set by the PS2 in November of 2002. The all time record for one month's sales is 2.7 million set by the PS2 in December of that year. Supply issues may or may not prevent the Wii from besting that number next month.

It looks like Wii Music didn't bomb after all.

In addition to their pricing problems, Sony is barking up the wrong tree with their focus on shooters. The sales of Gears of War 2 v. Resistance 2 and the 360/PS3 split on Call of Duty: World at War sales show that shooter fans have largely gone with the 360 in part due to popularity of Gears and Halo, the 360's one year head start, and oh yeah the price.

Keep in mind that just because a game doesn't appear in the top ten doesn't mean it hasn't sold well, especially in a month like this where the #10 game is around 300k. So Animal Crossing: City Folk, LittleBigPlanet, Guitar Hero: World Tour on 360/PS3, CoD: WaW on Wii, Motorstorm: Pacific Rift, etc. may all be selling rather well but we won't know about it.

Although I haven't played Left 4 Dead, assuming it's as good as most people say it is I'm glad to see it sell so well considering it's a new IP. Plus I'm sure it sold even more on the PC than on 360.

I don't expect the DSi to come out in US anytime soon with these continued DS sales.

Microsoft PR (http://kotaku.com/5108032/microsoft-responds-to-november-npd-sales-seems-pleased)
Nintendo PR (http://kotaku.com/5108008/nintendo-responds-to-november-npd-sales-seems-pleased)
Sony PR (http://kotaku.com/5108011/sony-responds-to-november-npd-sales-seems-pleased)

[MJ4H]

It looks like Wii Music didn't bomb after all.



expect spin

[sterlingice]

Broken records in that it's the same thing as pretty much every month this year or that the Wii and DS sold crazy numbers? ;)

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Amazing numbers by the Wii. The 360 numbers are impressive as well. I guess the recession isn't affecting game buying.

[Big Fo]

Broken records in that it's the same thing as pretty much every month this year or that the Wii and DS sold crazy numbers? ;)

SI

Both actually.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It looks like Wii Music didn't bomb after all.

LOL......When you have an installed base as big as the Wii and you only sell 378K of a first-party Nintendo title to date during the holiday season, that's a pretty big flop.

As far as sales go, nothing surprising this month. PS3 won't pass the 360 again month over month until we see the expected price drop early next year. Wii continues to sell extremely well.

[wade moore]

In addition to their pricing problems, Sony is barking up the wrong tree with their focus on shooters. The sales of Gears of War 2 v. Resistance 2 and the 360/PS3 split on Call of Duty: World at War sales show that shooter fans have largely gone with the 360 in part due to popularity of Gears and Halo, the 360's one year head start, and oh yeah the price.

I'm surprised MBBF didn't jump all over this.

You're right about GoW vs. Resistance 2 - but I'm not sure you're right on your conclusion about CoD.

COD 360 - 1.4m
COD PS3 - 597k
Total COD - 1.997m

360 Install Base - 12.4m
PS3 Install Base - 6.1m
Total Next Gen - 18.5

360's Share of the install base is 67% and their share of COD sales was 70%. That's not really that far off of what you would expect, it may not even be statistically significant.

[sterlingice]

expect spin

LOL......When you have an installed base as big as the Wii and you only sell 378K of a first-party Nintendo title to date during the holiday season, that's a pretty big flop.

As far as sales go, nothing surprising this month. PS3 won't pass the 360 again month over month until we see the expected price drop early next year. Wii continues to sell extremely well.

Ooh! Ooh! Found it!

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ooh! Ooh! Found it!

SI

The only spin there was MJ4H trying to downplay the the inferior sales of Wii Music. Wii Music has not done well at all. He chose not to discuss the actual figures because he knows how weak they have been. The weakness of that attempt was only surpassed by the press releases of Sony and Microsoft that tried to minimize (as they have over the past few months) just how badly they're getting hammered.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Amazing numbers by the Wii. The 360 numbers are impressive as well. I guess the recession isn't affecting game buying.

In a broader sense, I really have a tough time reconciling this recession & what my own eyes tell me at the consumer level on a daily basis.

[MJ4H]

LOL......When you have an installed base as big as the Wii and you only sell 378K of a first-party Nintendo title to date during the holiday season, that's a pretty big flop.



great success

[MJ4H]

The only spin there was MJ4H trying to downplay the the inferior sales of Wii Music. Wii Music has not done well at all. He chose not to discuss the actual figures because he knows how weak they have been. The weakness of that attempt was only surpassed by the press releases of Sony and Microsoft that tried to minimize (as they have over the past few months) just how badly they're getting hammered.

lol

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm surprised MBBF didn't jump all over this.

You're right about GoW vs. Resistance 2 - but I'm not sure you're right on your conclusion about CoD.

COD 360 - 1.4m
COD PS3 - 597k
Total COD - 1.997m

360 Install Base - 12.4m
PS3 Install Base - 6.1m
Total Next Gen - 18.5

360's Share of the install base is 67% and their share of COD sales was 70%. That's not really that far off of what you would expect, it may not even be statistically significant.

It's been pointed out regarding several multi-platform games. GTAIV was another good example. Based on percentage of installed base when compared to its competitor, it actually had a better attach rate on the PS3 worldwide.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Hey, now we have three broken records!

[MJ4H]

I know you are probably including me in that, but that's ok, it's still spot on. :)

[Calis]

While it's definitely not a "bomb", I'd have to think Nintendo is a pretty disappointed with the Wii music sales. That's not exactly a rousing success compared to the majority of their 1st party stuff.

It's obviously one that isn't reliant on the first rush of sales, it'll continue selling but be interesting to see how much. I haven't tried it out yet, but I haven't heard many glowing reviews so far, but that probably doesn't matter.

I'm more surprised to see a 3rd party Wii game on the list, that seems like a bigger shock. :)

[MJ4H]

While it's definitely not a "bomb", I'd have to think Nintendo is a pretty disappointed with the Wii music sales. That's not exactly a rousing success compared to the majority of their 1st party stuff.

It's obviously one that isn't reliant on the first rush of sales, it'll continue selling but be interesting to see how much. I haven't tried it out yet, but I haven't heard many glowing reviews so far, but that probably doesn't matter.

I'm more surprised to see a 3rd party Wii game on the list, that seems like a bigger shock. :)

I doubt they expected it to take off like a rocket. If they are disappointed in it, they really have no one to blame but themselves, anyway. That presentation at E3 was a disaster and turned so many people off of it permanently.

That said, the numbers are still great numbers, and this is one of those steady seller games. I would seriously doubt that at the end of its life Nintendo were anything like disappointed with how it will have sold.

But lol at saying it "bombed" while being in the overall top 10 of software sales.

[chesapeake]

In a broader sense, I really have a tough time reconciling this recession & what my own eyes tell me at the consumer level on a daily basis.

As you probably know, in a recession, movie ticket sales have traditionally done very well. The long-held theory is that movies provide a cost-effective form of entertainment/escape at a time when the public is desperately seeking this.

There has been a lot of speculation that says that video games probably fit the same niche, perhaps even more so. Although acquiring a game console requires a significant buy-in from the consumer, the console with good games that you will play for a bunch of hours works out to be a solid entertainment bargain.

Also, the extraordinarily awful unemployment numbers haven't shown up fully in these sales numbers. When the hundreds of thousands of folks that have recently lost their jobs reach the end of their unemployment benefits, I expect the downturn in consumer spending will be much more evident.

[spleen1015]

I saw a reference to the PS3 as the Gamecube of this generation. Made my chuckle.

[Samdari]

In a broader sense, I really have a tough time reconciling this recession & what my own eyes tell me at the consumer level on a daily basis.

I agree.

Noone I know has lost their job (in fact, my wife got found a job with a "real" raise this fall) or their house due to a bad mortgage, nor any income due to the poor stock market. In fact, we all have more money due to lower gas prices, and are buying more shares with our 401k contributions.

[JPhillips]

As you probably know, in a recession, movie ticket sales have traditionally done very well. The long-held theory is that movies provide a cost-effective form of entertainment/escape at a time when the public is desperately seeking this.

There has been a lot of speculation that says that video games probably fit the same niche, perhaps even more so. Although acquiring a game console requires a significant buy-in from the consumer, the console with good games that you will play for a bunch of hours works out to be a solid entertainment bargain.

Also, the extraordinarily awful unemployment numbers haven't shown up fully in these sales numbers. When the hundreds of thousands of folks that have recently lost their jobs reach the end of their unemployment benefits, I expect the downturn in consumer spending will be much more evident.

Retail sales are already down 10% from last year.

[Cringer]

At the risk of being bunched up with MBBF ( yikes ;) ), I kind of agree that Wii Music is a bit of a disappointment in sales. As much hype as it had, and as much advertising they still have for that game, The sales numbers were expected to be higher. A flop? No, it is probably a solid game and the sales numbers will continue to rise at a steady number is my guess. Still, it is not Wii Fit level, which is probably what the hope was with the popularity of music games.

As for the economy being down, I can't say I am too surprised games are still doing so well. I have always been a skeptic with the economy because of comments like the one above. Sales are down 10% from last year. My response is usually, "Oh no's! Company A is making $900 million in profit instead of $1 Billion, it's the Great Depression for sures!" :) Then again, I am not a genius.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No one I know has lost their job (in fact, my wife got found a job with a "real" raise this fall) or their house due to a bad mortgage, nor any income due to the poor stock market. In fact, we all have more money due to lower gas prices, and are buying more shares with our 401k contributions.

:+1:

[gstelmack]

TMQ had a great point this week about how the media tends to create these recessions, as there is never any GOOD economic news. Heck, household debt fell for the first time since they started tracking it, something experts have pushed for for a LONG time, and it's buried on page 3 in a little sidebar next to the big "evil Republicans thwart auto bailout because workers won't take wage cut" article.

Gas prices go up? Bad because people can't afford things. Gas prices go down? Bad because oil company profits tank. Interest rates go down? Bad because people can go into debt easier. Interest rates go up? Bad because people can't borrow any more. Nothing the economy does is ever good for the media.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Noticed some speculation over on NeoGaf about the possibility of Disney purchasing EA. Certainly would be an interesting merger and with EA really struggling right now, the price is right for a takeover.

[Big Fo]

Wii Music is well on it's way to selling over a million copies worldwide, and with the typical long legs of Nintendo's casual games I bet it hits over two million. You might say the sales figures are somewhat disappointing (and I would disagree) but by no means did the title bomb.

[Cringer]

I get the impression that if you don't say it is a success, then all the Wii Music defenders are just going to think keep insisting it isn't a bomb, even though I and others didn't say that. With the amount of promotion spent for Wii Music, all I am saying is that they probably had the hopes of it being Wii Fit like in sales and it hasn't been. If I had those expectations and it fell short of being that, it is a bit of a disappointment. A disappointment my company will make money off of probably, but still not what we hoped for. That is what a disappointment is IMO. Doesn't mean it's doing bad.

Kind of like a football team. You were Superbowl champs last year, this year struggled to make the playoffs. It's a hell of a lot better then being the Oakland Raiders, just not as good as hoped for.

[MJ4H]

Nah, this is about MBBF insisting in an earlier thread that Wii Music would "bomb." It hasn't and it won't. That's the whole point.

And they have themselves to blame for it being "disappointing" (and I don't personally buy that what it has done so far is disappointing, but that's a separate issue). Nintendo shot this game in the forehead at E3.

[Daimyo]

I have no interest in purchasing Wii Music, but as someone pointed out earlier its almost certain to sell a million copies and likely to hit two million lifetime. Not every first party game will hit Mario Kart/Wii Fit/Galaxy levels.

And FWIW, at least one person in this thread did say it was bomb... I believe the exact wording was "big flop".

[Big Fo]

LittleBigPlanet sold 141k last month, putting it's total US sales at 356k through November. It was the fourth placed PS3 game behind CoD: WaW, Resistance 2, Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe and did not make the top 20 (which hasn't been posted anywhere yet unfortunately).

So the 20th placed game, whatever it was, sold more than 141k in November.

gamesutra.com (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21509)

It's not a big series in the US but RPG fans might find it interesting that Square-Enix has announced Dragon Quest X for the Wii. It's kind of surprising that this happened before Dragon Quest IX comes out for the DS in March (in Japan, no date for the US yet. The DQ V remake is coming out in Feburary on the DS here though).

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata wants to make Dragon Quest a big series in the West.

“With the release of Dragon Quest IX, there are two things I’d like to make reality. The first is to build a thriving Japanese game market together with Dragon Quest that rivals the West’s. The second is to form a strong tag team to promote Dragon Quest overseas. At Nintendo, we were able to popularize the Brain Age series overseas, which was said to be unmarketable. I want to increase the number of people worldwide that understand the appeal of Dragon Quest, which represents all Japanese gaming culture…even if that only turns out to be a single person. I’m looking forward to working together with Mr. Horii and Square Enix.” - Satoru Iwata

gonintendo.com (http://gonintendo.com/?p=65991)

I'd love to see the DQ games become more popular over here. I don't think Square-Enix charging $40 for their DS games helps them though.

[SackAttack]

Noticed some speculation over on NeoGaf about the possibility of Disney purchasing EA. Certainly would be an interesting merger and with EA really struggling right now, the price is right for a takeover.

Got some tax refund checks the other day. Was toying with the idea of putting some of that into EA, and then this broke.

[TimGuru]

PS3 as Gamecube of the next gen is shocking.

The PS3 is a much better system. I love the operating interface. While the 360 has a 1 year headstart, PS3s have to start croaking in droves to catch up with the reliability failure rate. The BluRay player doesn't really justify the extra 100 bucks price tag, but it does add some value. The self charging included remote is a mile and half better than having to buy 30 bucks worth of recharging supplies separately. Plus the remote is just better, its more comfortable, and has motion sensing. The XBOX dashboard feels like a funnel to the marketplace. Playstation network is free, and easy to create multiple online enabled accounts on one machine.


The first party/system exclusive games are better for the 360, especially shooters. Obviously, Halo and Gears own Resistance in most gamers' minds, I can't speak about it yet since Gamefly still has Resistance on the way to me. Little Big Planet is better than anything I've ever player only on xbox/360 though. Little Big Planet might be the best thing I've played since Everquest, actually. Its certainly lived up to the reputation that made it a factor in trading in my Wii for the PS3. God of War moving to the PS3 will be exciting too.

My new PS3 has also sent me back to my PSP for the main reason that it reminded my how much I liked the PSP "experience". If I had to pick one manufacturer I would certainly keep my Sony systems (original Guitar Hero, Rocks the 80s and God of War, Kingdom Hearts and .hack on PS2, Patapon and Daxter on PSP, LBP on PS3....I couldn't part with any of em). Except for Gears which my boys still play online and are getting v2 for xmas, I wouldn't miss anything all that badly for my xbox or 360 (well, maybe Project Gotham a little). And my Wii, I've posted about my Wii experience here....the disc handling mechanism proved unreliable for my family, and the games wore out their welcome fast.

[Big Fo]

Here's the top 20:

1) Gears of War 2 (Xbox 360) / Microsoft / 1,560,000
2) Call of Duty: World at War (Xbox 360) / Activision Blizzard / 1,410,000
3) Wii Play w/ Remote (WII) / Nintendo / 796,000
4) Wii Fit w/ Balance Board (WII) / Nintendo / 697,000
5) Mario Kart Wii w/ Wheel (WII) / Nintendo / 637,000
6) Call of Duty: World at War (PS3) / Activision Blizzard / 597,000
7) Guitar Hero World Tour (Wii) / Activision Blizzard / 475,000
8) Left 4 Dead (Xbox 360) / Electronic Arts / 410,000
9) Resistance 2 (PS3) / Sony / 385,000
10) Wii Music / Nintendo / 297,000
11) Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii) / Nintendo
12) Fallout 3 (Xbox 360) / Bethesda Softworks
13) Rock Band (Wii) / MTV Games
14) Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia (DS) / Nintendo
15) Guitar Hero World Tour (Xbox 360) / Activision Blizzard
16) Mario Kart (DS) / Nintendo
17) Guitar Hero World Tour (PS2) / Activision Blizzard
18) WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009 (PS2) / THQ
19) Fable II (Xbox 360) / Microsoft (181,000)
20) Madden NFL 09 (Xbox 360) / Electronic Arts

:lol: @ Rock Band on Wii outselling the PS3/360 versions of Rock Band 2

It's nice to see Fallout 3 still selling.

Mario Kart DS is still charting three years after release. America loves Mario Kart.

Sadly, Valkyria Chronicles (PS3) didn't do so well, selling only 33k in it's debut month and unable to crack the top 100 accoring to Edge-Online (http://www.edge-online.com/news/valkyria-largely-ignored-us-gamers). I just got this a few days ago and it's really good so far. If you like strategy games or RPGs check it out.

[Mota]

Here's the top 20:
:lol: @ Rock Band on Wii outselling the PS3/360 versions of Rock Band 2


That's really sad considering that the Wii is by far the most inferior way to play Rock Band. DLC is limited by the tiny flash memory on the Wii or the super slow SD cards. Online play is terrible because of those god-awful friend codes. I almost feel sorry for anybody who buys Rock Band on that platform, they have no idea how much better their experience would be on 360 / PS3.

PS3 may not be selling well but kudos to Sony for fixing my broken PS3 in record time. Shipped it Monday morning and got a brand new unit back today. That's service.

[Mota]

Here's the top 20:
3) Wii Play w/ Remote (WII) / Nintendo / 796,000


Another thing, I have no idea how Nintendo gets away with calling Wii Play software. It is so obviously an accessory sku, with everybody purchasing it for the Wiimote, and a tiny little "freeware" type game thrown in for good measure.

Microsoft needs to do something crazy like throw in a free copy of Ninety Nine Nights with each controller they sell and call in the GREATEST GAME EVAH!!! when it starts outselling the AAA titles.

[Big Fo]

There's nothing stopping the other companies from doing the same thing, and they have tried similar approaches. Sony has bundled SOCOM and Warhawk with headsets, I'm pretty sure there was a Viva Pinata: Party Animals + 360 controller combo at some point after that game bombed, Nintendo has also bundled Animal Crossing with Wii Speak, but none of those sold nearly as well as Wii Play.

[MJ4H]

I think the issue is that Wii Play is a nothing game bundled with a must-have accessory, while something like Animal Crossing is a fantastic game coupled with a nearly irrelevant accessory (actually, though, Wii Speak works really well and is very nice to have).

[Big Fo]

But everyone knows it sells for the controller so what's the big deal? Nobody says "Wii Play has sold 7m+ so it must be a great game."

Hopefully more games will support Wii Speak in the future, it'd be great to be able to hear someone curse you when you take them out with a red shell in Mario Kart.

[MJ4H]

Well The Counduit is supposed to support it.

[cartman]

Those numbers are horrible news on a YtY basis for the PS3. Comparing Nov. 2007 to Nov. 2008, Wii more than doubled their console sales, the 360 increased by about 10%, but the PS3 dropped 19%.

[Eaglesfan27]

Those numbers are horrible news on a YtY basis for the PS3. Comparing Nov. 2007 to Nov. 2008, Wii more than doubled their console sales, the 360 increased by about 10%, but the PS3 dropped 19%.

Yes they are, but I'm sure the Tsunami is coming any day now for Sony.

[MJ4H]

I keep thinking that bluray will help the PS3 any day now. I mean, it's really the only reason I've ever considered a PS3. I have never even briefly entertained the idea of getting a 360 because of the hardware failures. More and more people will be wanting bluray players, right? Right?

I mean, I'm not even an HD whore and I wouldn't mind having a bluray player.

[Cringer]

The only bad thing about a PS3 is that it's in last place and gets treated that way. COD: WaW online support for the PS3 version is crap so far. It's a great system, my favorite of the three now, but they bobbled the ball and the Wii is a juggernaut.

Damn good system though MJ4H, and the BR is indeed nice to have.

[Cringer]

Those numbers are horrible news on a YtY basis for the PS3. Comparing Nov. 2007 to Nov. 2008, Wii more than doubled their console sales, the 360 increased by about 10%, but the PS3 dropped 19%.

This reminded me of being in the store the other day. Someone's mom was getting info about systems from a Target employee and I could see her trying to absorb the actual differences between the different 360 models, and of course the arcade (I think that is the model name) that is $199 just naturally seemed to be what she kept going back to. It's pretty simple to me, PS3 is too expensive compared to the others when mom's do a lot of the buying and see no difference between the systems.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It's pretty simple to me, PS3 is too expensive compared to the others when mom's do a lot of the buying and see no difference between the systems.

Totally agree. The 360's pricing IS the reason it's remaining competitive. When the pricing reaches the point where you can buy 2 360's for the price of one PS3 as it is now, people can justify the purchase of a system that they know has quality issues. As someone said before, if it breaks a couple of years down the road, you can still buy another one and end up paying the same thing (or less on the second one as prices will drop in the future).

The PS3 was beating the 360 in sales for the first 2/3 of this year because the price difference wasn't as great. Until the PS3 drops to a $299 model next year and makes it a bit more competitive, the 360 is probably going to do better than the PS3.

[sterlingice]

The only bad thing about a PS3 is that it's in last place and gets treated that way. COD: WaW online support for the PS3 version is crap so far. It's a great system, my favorite of the three now, but they bobbled the ball and the Wii is a juggernaut.

Again, as already stated- Wii owners are more than getting the shaft on these sorts of things. The Wii gets treated as the bastard stepchild by devs and still is selling more copies of anything remotely worth playing.

SI

[Mota]

Again, as already stated- Wii owners are more than getting the shaft on these sorts of things. The Wii gets treated as the bastard stepchild by devs and still is selling more copies of anything remotely worth playing.

SI

Seeing that the Wii is horribly underpowered, does not output a high definition signal, and with a inaccurate controller that only works well with specific types of games, isn't that to be expected?

[MJ4H]

No.

[Atocep]

Again, as already stated- Wii owners are more than getting the shaft on these sorts of things. The Wii gets treated as the bastard stepchild by devs and still is selling more copies of anything remotely worth playing.

SI

Well, you can make a game that ports very well across 3 platforms (360, PS3, PC) or develop a game for the Wii that doesn't carry over well to the other 3 platforms and has a customer base that is finicky about anything that isn't made by Nintendo.

[MJ4H]

Well, you can make a game that ports very well across 3 platforms (360, PS3, PC) or develop a game for the Wii that doesn't carry over well to the other 3 platforms and has a customer base that is finicky about anything that is just thrown together as an excuse for a Wii game.

fixed

[Atocep]

fixed

Okami
Zack and Wiki
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
and on, and on, and on

There's a large list of games for the Wii now that have very positive reviews and you can probably count the games that that sold well and weren't made by Nintendo on one hand.

[MJ4H]

I agree, there are some great games. Very few approach the quality of most Nintendo games, though. And the ones that do tend to sell pretty well.

Anyway, blah blah. 3rd parties shaft the Wii with sub-standard ports 99% of the time is the point. And no it isn't acceptable because the Wii isn't HD capable.

[Atocep]

I agree, there are some great games. Very few approach the quality of most Nintendo games, though. And the ones that do tend to sell pretty well.

Anyway, blah blah. 3rd parties shaft the Wii with sub-standard ports 99% of the time is the point. And no it isn't acceptable because the Wii isn't HD capable.

I agree that the Wii does get the shaft and some of the blame definitely goes to the studios, but I just wanted to point out that blame also falls on Wii owners (they need to support the good games that aren't made by Nintendo if they want to see more good games not made by Nintendo) and even Nintendo as well (the lack of even a small hard drive is a big issue).

[sterlingice]

Okami
Zack and Wiki
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
and on, and on, and on

There's a large list of games for the Wii now that have very positive reviews and you can probably count the games that that sold well and weren't made by Nintendo on one hand.

Let's be fair- Okami was already on the PS2 and it didn't sell all that great there with an even larger install base than the Wii has. Both systems have sold around 150K.

I can't speak for others but I own Zack and Wiki and Boom Blox. As as aside, Boom Blox has some funky ratings- 85% on gamerankings but IGN only gave it a 8.1 and Gamespot a 7. But let's not kid ourselves- lots of good games don't sell well. Neither has been a complete bust, either, each selling over 500K.

And it's not as if all 3rd party games don't sell on the Wii. Mario and Sonic at the Olympics (Sega) at over 6M, good for 7th, and Sonic and the Secret Rings is almost 2M. Guitar Hero 3 rounds out the top 10 at over 3.5M. Both Resident Evil games have gone Platinum. Both Rayman games are at 1.5M. Lego Star Wars: the Complete Trilogy for the Wii has outsold both the PS3 and 360 combined at over 1.5M.

But, again, the problems is twofold with lots of shovelware burying the good games and lots of devs half-assing anything Wii, making the problem worse.

I'm really curious to see how GH: World Tour and Rock Band 2 do for the Wii since Activision went a bit further out of their way to dev for the Wii than Red Octane. However, Rock Band 1 completely stiffed the Wii on features and they improved quite a bit.

SI

[sterlingice]

Also, along with development budgets- how about ad budgets. Has anyone seen ads for a Wii-exclusive 3rd party game? It was hard to watch tv and not see an ad for GTAIV or MGS4 before they came out. Or Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed or Bioshock. Or, hell, any Tom Clancy game or EA Sports game or Music Game.

But are there ads for any 3rd party Wii games? No, unless they're something like "Here's a multi-platform game, and in the last 10 seconds we'll say 'Also available on the Wii and PS2'" and that's the only advertising blurb.

If you don't even spend a minimum baseline of money, don't be surprised when you don't make money even when making money on the Wii is like shooting fish in a barrell if you're halfways competent.

SI

[sachmo71]

Also, along with development budgets- how about ad budgets. Has anyone seen ads for a Wii-exclusive 3rd party game? It was hard to watch tv and not see an ad for GTAIV or MGS4 before they came out. Or Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed or Bioshock. Or, hell, any Tom Clancy game or EA Sports game or Music Game.

But are there ads for any 3rd party Wii games? No, unless they're something like "Here's a multi-platform game, and in the last 10 seconds we'll say 'Also available on the Wii and PS2'" and that's the only advertising blurb.

If you don't even spend a minimum baseline of money, don't be surprised when you don't make money even when making money on the Wii is like shooting fish in a barrell if you're halfways competent.

SI


you see them often enough on the Cartoon Network.

[Atocep]

Also, along with development budgets- how about ad budgets. Has anyone seen ads for a Wii-exclusive 3rd party game? It was hard to watch tv and not see an ad for GTAIV or MGS4 before they came out. Or Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed or Bioshock. Or, hell, any Tom Clancy game or EA Sports game or Music Game.

But are there ads for any 3rd party Wii games? No, unless they're something like "Here's a multi-platform game, and in the last 10 seconds we'll say 'Also available on the Wii and PS2'" and that's the only advertising blurb.

If you don't even spend a minimum baseline of money, don't be surprised when you don't make money even when making money on the Wii is like shooting fish in a barrell if you're halfways competent.

SI

Boom Blox was advertised on TV quite a bit.

Call of Duty and the EA Sports games are on the Wii so they're getting advertising as well.

But, lets be honest here, pretty graphics are easier to sell through TV advertising and the Wii simply doesn't compare. That's why when Call of Duty or an EA Sports game is shown its going to be the PS3 verison or the 360 version and then at the end of the ad they'll mention its also available on the Wii. Nintendo has also been making games a certain way for 20+ years and it differs a lot from what is currently mainstream as far as videogames go. So you can do something you're not familiar with, try to emulate Nintendo, and probably end up with a shitty game or you can stick with what you do best and make First-person shooters and action games which play very well on 3 platforms and appeal to a large number of gamers right now.

You also have to point the finger at Nintendo as well. The made hardware with some major limitations that prevent developers from doing direct ports. The big GoY candidates this year are Fallout 3, GTA4, MSG4, Gears of War 2, Left 4 Dead, and Little Big Planet. Not a single one of those would be possible on the Wii hardware (I know 3 of those are exclusives but the point is they wouldn't be possible on the Wii to begin with). Nintendo is also about 5 years behind when it comes to online content which really makes them look bad in the eyes of your teenagers to mid 20s gamers.

Nintendo made a solid console that appeals to a lot of people, but if they want 3rd party support they need to make hardware at least in the same ballpark as Sony and Microsoft and they need to step up their online support.

[Big Fo]

Okami
Zack and Wiki
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
and on, and on, and on

There's a large list of games for the Wii now that have very positive reviews and you can probably count the games that that sold well and weren't made by Nintendo on one hand.

Okami - had disappointing sales on the PS2 (with a far larger userbase mind you) and the Wii port met Capcom's expectations. Also the Wii version was criticized for wonky controls and having a more subdued parchment filter effect that gave the PS2 version such distinct graphics. Even Nintendo Power said "just play the PS2 version" in it's review. Still 300,000+ sold in NA/Europe (link (http://www.cubed3.com/news/11050)), not bad for a non-advertised, inferior port of a game that wasn't a big seller on the most successful home console of all time.

(Okami Wii)"was never predicated on reaching the sales of the PS2, so from a profitability standpoint, [Capcom is] relatively pleased with where it’s at and where it’s going."

Zack and Wiki - over 300k sold (as of June) according to one of Capcom's financial statements, if you've played it you'd know it wouldn't exactly have required an MGS4-esque budget. link for 300k figure (http://www.cubed3.com/news/9468)

No More Heroes - the best selling game ever created by the developer, and a sequel is coming for the Wii. Around half a million sold worldwide.
Quote from the publisher "We are weeping with delight. Especially as sales should improve further with the TV campaign moving up a gear from tonight. It is a verification of all the posturing and ambitious claims made these past months. I think a 'told you so' would be apt at some point. Thanks to Nintendo and the Wii console. Thanks to Mastertronic for their sales efforts and all our retail partners. Most of all thanks to Grasshopper for the greatest of products" link for quote (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29950/Rising-Star-enjoys-Wii-chart-success)

Boom Blox - 450k sold as of June and was "continuing to sell well" according to EA. Again, it almost assuredly made money and a sequel is coming for the wii. link (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ea-reveals-40-games-in-development-for-wii-and-ds)

Then there are multiplatform games that sell best on Wii, like Guitar Hero, Tiger Woods, the recent Shaun White Snowboarding, etc. Hell, as mentioned in a few posts back, Rock Band on the Wii outsold it's sequel (a recent release) on the PS3/360 last month. Not to mention that other than Wii Music and Animal Crossing Nintendo left the biggest sales season of the year wide open for third-parties to exploit, so the usual excuse of "omg nobody can compete with Nintendo" has even less merit than it ever did.

There have been at least ten (15 if you go by vgchartz) third-party million sellers for the Wii so unless you're some horribly disfigured mutant you won't be able to count them on one hand.

I know that since this is the Internet people like to spout off ignorant meme posts like it's 2006 (lol 360 sux RROD and who pays for online, lol PS3 $600 and no good games, lol Wii is just for grandmas, babies, and Ntards) but if people actually paid any attention they'd realize that while Nintendo software sells great, third parties can, have, and will continue to sell a lot of games on the platform as well.

[Atocep]

Are we seriously going to consider 300k a successful game for a console with an install base over 41 million? I mean, that barely puts it in the top 100 and just ahead of Barbie Island Princess' 270k sold. That's one hell of a prize for a solid game. 500k for one of the 7-8 best reviewed games on the system? Its successful because its the developer's best selling game ever?

That's a different argument, though, because you missed the point of my posts altogether. The point was, and I made it pretty clear, that the fault doesn't fall strictly with the developers for lack of 3rd party support on the Wii. If you pull up the sales charts for the PS3 and the 360 you see that games that get good reviews generally sell pretty well. The Wii is all over the place. Carvnival games is a steaming pile of crap and it sold over 2.5 million copies (a bit more than 300k). Nintendo has 13 of the top 20 selling games on the platform.

So why would a big company work hard to release a good game on the Wii when they could make a game without the hardware limitations for the PC, 360, and PS3 and feel comfortable about it selling well if its good?

[Big Fo]

Your game doesn't have to sell like Mario Kart to make money. If you're Grasshopper and all of your games have sold 100k-200k (again some on the PS2 which had a higher userbase that the time of those releases than when NMH came out on Wii) at the most yet you've stayed in the business for years, then you make a Wii game that sells close to half a million, that isn't a success? Have you played No More Heroes? If so, can't you see that such a game doesn't require a massive budget like some of the bigger games on the HD consoles?

Also, just because a shitty game sold well doesn't erase the money you made from your good game that sold well. The PS2 had a bunch of crappy games that sold well (50 Cent's game sold over a million ffs), that's part of being the market leader.

Good games can and have sold poorly on the PS360, like Mirror's Edge, Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Vesperia, and Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. Hell, Stranglehold practically bankrupted Midway.

You're right that the lack of quality third-party games isn't all on the developers, it's more the fault of the third-party publishers that are afraid to take a chance on doing something different despite the clear evidence that good games aimed at core gamers can sell well on the Wii.

If it's all about the graphics and using the latest and greatest hardware, why don't they go PC exclusive? Top-end PCs are far more powerful than the 360 and PS3, why make technical compromises?

[Atocep]

Good games can and have sold poorly on the PS360, like Mirror's Edge, Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Vesperia, and Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. Hell, Stranglehold practically bankrupted Midway.

Did I say all games that reviewed well sold well? No. But your chances of selling well are better on the PS3 and 360 with good reviews than they are on the Wii.



If it's all about the graphics and using the latest and greatest hardware, why don't they go PC exclusive? Top-end PCs are far more powerful than the 360 and PS3, why make technical compromises?

Because you can develop for all 3 and hit an install base larger than the Wii's without having to deal with hardware limitations? Pretty crazy, I know.

For the record, and in order to prop up my fanboy cred, I've owned a Wii since January of '07 and have around 20 games for it. I'm just realistic about why it doesn't get the support that the other systems get. I can post pics if that's needed.

[Daimyo]

From VGChartz, number of games with over 1M in sales for each platform:
<table><tr><td></td><td>1st</td><td>3rd</td><td>Total</td></tr><tr><td>Wii</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>32</td></tr><tr><td>360</td><td>11</td><td>44</td><td>55</td></tr><tr><td>PS3</td><td>7</td><td>14</td><td>21</td></tr></table>

[Big Fo]

Did I say all games that reviewed well sold well? No. But your chances of selling well are better on the PS3 and 360 with good reviews than they are on the Wii.

I don't agree. There just haven't been that many good third-party Wii games. Half of the ten best (by review scores on metacritic) were made by Nintendo, and Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Smash Bros. (the three best) all sold multiple millions.

Because you can develop for all 3 and hit an install base larger than the Wii's without having to deal with hardware limitations? Pretty crazy, I know.

This is true, I was just saying it's not all about the tech/power.

For the record, and in order to prop up my fanboy cred, I've owned a Wii since January of '07 and have around 20 games for it. I'm just realistic about why it doesn't get the support that the other systems get. I can post pics if that's needed.

No need, I believe you. I enjoy my PC and PS3 (not to mention the DS) games fwiw. My bad if you felt I was accusing you of trolling, that was not my intention. Not even the most ardent Nintendo fan is going to argue that companies should stop making games on other platforms, just that a majority of third-party efforts on the Wii have been lousy and the platform will support well-made games (and yes, some bad games too) in general.

From VGChartz, number of games with over 1M in sales for each platform:
1st 3rd Total
Wii 16 16 32
360 11 44 55
PS3 7 14 21

Games sell great on the 360 (highest tie ratio around 8-9 with the PS3 and Wii around 5-6), and it's one year head start on the market certainly doesn't hurt.

[sterlingice]

There have been at least ten (15 if you go by vgchartz) third-party million sellers for the Wii so unless you're some horribly disfigured mutant you won't be able to count them on one hand.

I know it's early but this line had me cracking up.

SI

[Samdari]

So why would a big company work hard to release a good game on the Wii when they could make a game without the hardware limitations for the PC, 360, and PS3 and feel comfortable about it selling well if its good?


I am curious as to why you think having more advanced hardware makes it harder/more expensive to develop for.

I can assure you, quite the opposite is true.

[gstelmack]

Can we get back to laughing at all the folks who predicted a few months ago that the PS3 would catch the 360 and eventually zoom past the Wii?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Can we get back to laughing at all the folks who predicted a few months ago that the PS3 would catch the 360 and eventually zoom past the Wii?

It's somewhat silly to even discuss this at this point in time. The premise of those statements by most people were set upon the thought that Sony would have a $299 model available by this holiday season. Obviously, Sony didn't get that done and likely won't until a few months from now. Given the sudden boom in Blu-ray player and movie sales, there's no question that a $299 model would have done much better this holiday season. As it is, we have the 360 with a price cut while the PS3 remains at $399. The only thing that would be surprising would be if the 360 didn't do well after the price cut given the lack of a cut on the PS3. Sony had clear momentum over the first 8 months of this year, then failed to keep it when MS made their price cut.

The PS3 vs. 360 competition will continue to go to MS as long as the PS3 remains at the $399 price point. It's not terribly complicated.

As for the Wii, I continue to be amazed at the defensive nature of Wii owners. While it's selling a lot of units, there's no question that there are some severe concerns in regards to first party/third party sales and the relatively lousy quality of many of the games being released for the system.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

It's over (all three places), and has been for a while.

[Samdari]

As for the Wii, I continue to be amazed at the defensive nature of Wii owners. While it's selling a lot of units, there's no question that there are some severe concerns in regards to first party/third party sales and the relatively lousy quality of many of the games being released for the system.

I think that they are no more or less defensive than owners that spent hundreds of dollars on any other system and had that decision ridiculed publicly.

I think the reason that third party games are so unsuccessful so far is the same reason the Wii appeals to people who previously hated console games, and turns off those who previously loved them: the motion controls.

There really has been only one third party game where the developer "got" the appeal of the Wii - Boom Blox. The motion controls are integral to the game. That really has not happened very often. Most third party titles try to use a more traditional analog stick and button control scheme, with one or two "shake the Wiimote" controls added in. People who love the Wii because it does not feature those type of controls are going (and do?) hate those games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

There really has been only one third party game where the developer "got" the appeal of the Wii - Boom Blox. The motion controls are integral to the game. That really has not happened very often. Most third party titles try to use a more traditional analog stick and button control scheme, with one or two "shake the Wiimote" controls added in. People who love the Wii because it does not feature those type of controls are going (and do?) hate those games.

Agreed. Boom Blox was really well done and appealed to both audiences that you mention.

BTW.....the recent commercials that I've seen for Boom Blox are also very well done. Showing lots of gameplay and people having fun playing it. MS and Sony should take some hints in that regard. Their commercials should emulate that formula.

[gstelmack]

There really has been only one third party game where the developer "got" the appeal of the Wii - Boom Blox.

Rayman: Raving Rabbids. Yeah yeah I work for Ubi, but my daughter and son LOVE the "Bunny Game" and it makes heavy use of the controls.

But BoomBlox is definitely awesome.

[Samdari]

Rayman: Raving Rabbids. Yeah yeah I work for Ubi, but my daughter and son LOVE the "Bunny Game" and it makes heavy use of the controls.

But BoomBlox is definitely awesome.



I did not mean to imply I'd played every 3rd party game - just point out what I thought the problem was that 3rd party developers were having being successful making Wii games. The problem is, they are not making Wii games, they are trying to make traditional console games for the Wii.

Rayman: Raving Rabbids - this was considered a success, no? Enough to produce a sequel anyway. Boom Blox is perhaps not unique, but somewhat a rarity then.

[Daimyo]

As for the Wii, I continue to be amazed at the defensive nature of Wii owners. While it's selling a lot of units, there's no question that there are some severe concerns in regards to first party/third party sales

I'm guessing the vast majority of Wii owners don't really care much about those things.
I've had my Wii for about 20 months and I've purchased or played through seven games that each gave me at least a good month of solid game play (I've also purchased a few others like Wii Play that didn't give any):

Wii Sports
Wii Fit
Mario Kart Wii
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Super Mario Galaxy
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Paper Mario

That averages out to about a game every three months. Factor in games for the PS2, DS, and PC and I bet I purchase one game every two months. With a busy job, a two year old son, and all the other entertainment options I really couldn't consume video games any faster than that and wouldn't really want to.

For me its not so much defensiveness about the lack of 3rd party games, but apathy. As long as Nintendo or the occasional 3rd party continues releasing AAAA games every three months or so, I will continue to be very pleased with the Wii. There are already more than enough games I want to buy (Bloom Blox, NMH, etc) that having better third party support wouldn't really add anything for me.

. . . and the relatively lousy quality of many of the games being released for the system.

As for all the crappy games released on the Wii, I simply don't buy them. Just like I didn't buy the crappy games released on the PS2 or any console I've owned. Crappy games always get thrown at the market leader every generation. Luckily they're trivial to identify and avoid.

[gstelmack]

I continue to be amazed that people who attack other platforms are amazed that those owners get defensive...

[Big Fo]

Can we get back to laughing at all the folks who predicted a few months ago that the PS3 would catch the 360 and eventually zoom past the Wii?

Laugh at me on the first part. A year or so ago I thought the PS3 would catch up to the 360 in America before either Sony or Microsoft launched a successor console, I was definitely wrong on that one. Heck, now I don't even think that the PS3 will catch up worldwide.

[SackAttack]

Laugh at me on the first part. A year or so ago I thought the PS3 would catch up to the 360 in America before either Sony or Microsoft launched a successor console, I was definitely wrong on that one. Heck, now I don't even think that the PS3 will catch up worldwide.

I will say that the current situation feels similar to the Genesis/SNES dustup. Leaving the Wii out of the discussion for the moment, since it's pretty clearly on its own planet (and I suspect the majority of its market share would not defect to either Sony or Microsoft if somehow Nintendo vanished), look at the parallels.

Nintendo was a dominant market leader in 1988, with Sega occupying a minority role with the Sega Master system. They released their new system ahead of Nintendo, launching in 1989, and by 1991 held something like a 60/40 split of the market. Nintendo was seen as vulnerable at that point in time, and eventually recovered to flip the percentages to ~60% Nintendo, 40% Genesis.

Sony was the dominant leader in the last generation, with Microsoft occupying a minority role with the Xbox, and 2-3 years into its lifespan, the 360 is sitting on top with people questioning whether Sony's leadership will continue.

Now, here's the problem - Nintendo's philosophy has *always* been centered around great games on affordable (and profitable) hardware.

Sony's got a $400 boondoggle that was designed to add another profitable product line to the company's balance sheet. It was not designed purely with games in mind, nor with the idea of getting it into as many homes as possible as quickly as possible. As a result, they're in a vulnerable position, and their market share is being attacked by both a direct and an indirect competitor.

I say indirect because even though a large part of the Wii base is the 'blue ocean' gamer, it still has that perception as being a system "for kids," and so parents who are buying a game system for their children still compare all three of them.

See, the problem is just about anybody with an interest in the industry can see a path out of this for Sony, but they may have painted themselves into such a corner that they can't avail themselves of that path. They're not dead yet, but the Romans are rolling the boulder in front of the tomb, and they don't have that whole "Son of God" thing going for them as a way out once that boulder is in place.

[Big Fo]

Xbox 360 is one million units ahead of the PS3 in Europe (or at least the five biggest European gaming markets).

Xbox 360 currently has a combined lead over PlayStation 3 of around one million lifetime sales across five key European territories - the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy.

That's according to GfK Chart-Track data seen by Eurogamer that shows like-for-like sales of console hardware across October and November.

The installed base totals suggest that Sony is catching up on Microsoft, which launched Xbox 360 over a year earlier than PS3.

But following a price cut in September, Microsoft's figures have jumped and the platform holder can be confident of holding its lead into the New Year.

eurogamer.com link (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=344133)

The momentum gained from the price drop wasn't limited to the North American market. Sony really needs a price drop that they just can't afford at the moment.

[dawgfan]

Rayman: Raving Rabbids. Yeah yeah I work for Ubi, but my daughter and son LOVE the "Bunny Game" and it makes heavy use of the controls.
Rayman: Raving Rabbids was awesome - I'd put it up there with pretty much any of the first party Wii games.

[sterlingice]

Rayman: Raving Rabbids was awesome - I'd put it up there with pretty much any of the first party Wii games.

And, go figure, RRR and RRR2 sold 1.42 and 1.48M copies, good for #21 and #23 on the console, sandwiched around Metroid Prime 3. Wait? So if you make a good game, it will sell on the Wii? Even if you're a third party?

SI

[sterlingice]

As for the Wii, I continue to be amazed at the defensive nature of Wii owners. While it's selling a lot of units, there's no question that there are some severe concerns in regards to first party/third party sales and the relatively lousy quality of many of the games being released for the system.

With compliments of that level of backhandedness, I don't know why anyone would be so defensive. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's not as if that paragraph could be broken down into the following sour grapes bullet points:
-I don't know why Wii owners are defensive
-It sells well (understatement), BUT
-sucks {reason 1}
-and sucks {reason 2}

SI

[Big Fo]

Platform top 10's with numbers drawn from the top 20 report:

Top 10 Wii Titles

1. Wii Play w/ Remote = 796,000
2. Wii Fit = 697,000
3. Mario Kart = 637,000
4. Guitar Hero World Tour* = 475,000
5. Wii Music = 297,000
6. Animal Crossing: City Folk* > 181k
7. Rock Band* > 181k
8. Star War: Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels < 181k
9. Nerf N Strike
10. Link's Crossbow Training


Top 10 Xbox 360 Titles

1. Gears of War 2* = 1,560,000
2. Call of Duty: World at War* = 1,410,000
3. Left 4 Dead = 410,000
4. Fallout 3* > 181k
5. Guitar Hero World Tour* > 181k
6. Fable II* = 181,000
7. Madden NFL 09* < 181k
8. Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe*
9. Need for Speed: Undercover
10. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009


Top 10 Playstation 3 Titles

1. Call of Duty: World at War = 597,000
2. Resistance 2* = 385,000
3. Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe* ~ 141k-181k
4. Little Big Planet = 141k
5. Guitar Hero World Tour*
6. Fallout 3*
7. Madden NFL 09*
8. Need for Speed: Undercover
9. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009*
10. Rock Band 2*


Top 10 Nintendo DS Titles

1. Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia > 181k
2. Mario Kart > 181k
3. Kirby Superstar Ultra < 181k
4. Club Penguin: Eleite Penguin Force
5. New Super Mario Bros.
6. Guitar Hero On Tour
7. Mario Party
8. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day
9. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day
10. Mystery Case File: Millionheir


Top 10 Playstation Portable Titles

1. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009 < 181k
2. Lego Batman
3. Madden NFL 09
4. Midnight Club: LA Remix
5. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
6. Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions
7. Iron Man
8. FIFA Soccer 09
9. NBA Live 09
10. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories

* Includes Collector's, Limited, Legendary, Bundled (Guitars) Editions



- No Chrono Trigger :( *grumbles about $40 SNES port on DS* still a great game though

- 360 and Wii software sales >>>> PS3 software, par for the course really

- Has anyone gotten that Wii Nerf game for their kids and have anything to say regarding its quality? I was looking online and only saw two reviews, both said it was decent. Just curious.

- Need for Speed used to be a million seller type franchise. It just came out and clearly didn't do so well. Rumors are circulating that plans for the series in the future have been cancelled. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3171828)

- Are Rock Band 2 sales affected more by the economy or by the sequel coming out relatively soon after the original?

[SackAttack]

- Are Rock Band 2 sales affected more by the economy or by the sequel coming out relatively soon after the original?

I don't think it's an either/or proposition.

I think it's probably more a factor of incredible DLC support. Because Rock Band 1 still enjoys such robust support, there's not a mass movement to Rock Band 2, the way we usually see with the Guitar Hero franchise.

[Big Fo]

So when a DLC song is released, it is available for Rock Band 1 and 2?

[SackAttack]

So when a DLC song is released, it is available for Rock Band 1 and 2?

Yes. All DLC is compatible with both games. This is also true of the track packs that are exportable to the hard drive.

[Big Fo]

That's pretty cool, now I get your point, that probably would have a large effect on the sequel's sales.

[SackAttack]

That's pretty cool, now I get your point, that probably would have a large effect on the sequel's sales.

Or at least spread those sales out. There's no rush to go get it now now now because there's always new music to get.

So you don't have to pay $60 for it...you can wait and get it for $45, say.

[Fidatelo]

I don't get why they released RB2 when they did. It was way too soon after RB1. They should have milked RB1 for another year, done the DLC stuff, and then dropped RB2 in September of '09.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

With compliments of that level of backhandedness, I don't know why anyone would be so defensive. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's not as if that paragraph could be broken down into the following sour grapes bullet points:
-I don't know why Wii owners are defensive
-It sells well (understatement), BUT
-sucks {reason 1}
-and sucks {reason 2}

SI

So are you going to address the point or just write it off as sour grapes? I think SackAttack did a good job of making the points without any complaints of perceived bias. I think his points regarding there being just enough games to keep him busy is a very good one. I think the PS3 is very similar in that regard (new exclusive every few months to play). His point is spot on regarding Sony moving forward from here and it's exactly why gstelmack's comment seems silly at this point. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE knows exactly what needs to be done to put Sony in a position to compete and outsell the 360. The problem is that the message hasn't been received by Sony, so many of the predictions based on common sense management fall flat on their face at this point due to Sony's unwillingness to make the right move. It's mind-boggling to be honest.

[SackAttack]

I don't get why they released RB2 when they did. It was way too soon after RB1. They should have milked RB1 for another year, done the DLC stuff, and then dropped RB2 in September of '09.

World Tour, mostly. They had to react to that. Just like there was an anti-GH backlash for a while after Rock Band because "this is way cooler," they couldn't afford to see a similar backlash against the RB brand when World Tour came out.

[Scoobz0202]

Gents, I need some help.

This is coming from somebody who was a massive console gamer back in my day. My day being 10 years ago, as I am only 21 years old now. Well, I left console games and went to pc gaming and am FINALLY going back to console gaming. Back then, my parents would buy me whatever I wanted. Now, my poor college ass is looking to be cheap.

I'm only taking the plunge because my older brother is going to give me his 360 as he only plays his PS3 now. I have a couple of questions.

I want to put this in my bedroom. I would put it in the living room with the HDTV, but it's just would be easier to have it in my bedroom.

In there I have a regular, old-ass, tv that would probably not be good to use, but I have a Samsung 204BW 20 inch computer monitor. I figure I can use a VGA adapter to hook up to that, correct? The problem is the RCA cables, as there is no where to plug them in to the monitor and there is there no where to plug into the speakers I have, which are these:

Amazon.com: Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX Certified Computer Speaker System (Black): Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ProMedia-Certified-Computer-Speaker/dp/B000062VUO)

What do I do? That is probably such a stupid question, but like I said, I have been out of this game since the old-gen, and the new-gen is totally out of my element.

So:

1. Above

2. I understand the xbox has reliability issues. I'm not sure what he has for the system, but just in case, what are the must buy things to help me, and the system.

3. He has had this system for three years, since it came out pretty much I think. The warranty has to be up. Once this baby dies, am I toast? Basically, enjoy it while it lasts?


Thanks guys!

[SackAttack]

Gents, I need some help.

This is coming from somebody who was a massive console gamer back in my day. My day being 10 years ago, as I am only 21 years old now. Well, I left console games and went to pc gaming and am FINALLY going back to console gaming. Back then, my parents would buy me whatever I wanted. Now, my poor college ass is looking to be cheap.

I'm only taking the plunge because my older brother is going to give me his 360 as he only plays his PS3 now. I have a couple of questions.

I want to put this in my bedroom. I would put it in the living room with the HDTV, but it's just would be easier to have it in my bedroom.

In there I have a regular, old-ass, tv that would probably not be good to use, but I have a Samsung 204BW 20 inch computer monitor. I figure I can use a VGA adapter to hook up to that, correct? The problem is the RCA cables, as there is no where to plug them in to the monitor and there is there no where to plug into the speakers I have, which are these:

Amazon.com: Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX Certified Computer Speaker System (Black): Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ProMedia-Certified-Computer-Speaker/dp/B000062VUO)

What do I do? That is probably such a stupid question, but like I said, I have been out of this game since the old-gen, and the new-gen is totally out of my element.

So:

1. Above

2. I understand the xbox has reliability issues. I'm not sure what he has for the system, but just in case, what are the must buy things to help me, and the system.

3. He has had this system for three years, since it came out pretty much I think. The warranty has to be up. Once this baby dies, am I toast? Basically, enjoy it while it lasts?


Thanks guys!

1) Chances are the monitor has a line in. I think there's an adapter out there that'll let you 'reverse split' the RCA audio into a single line in and plug that into a monitor. Not ideal, but since you're looking to be cheap and the alternative would be a new speaker system or a 5.1, a few bucks for one of those adapters is probably the way to go.

2) I don't really buy the notion that there are specific accessories you can use to prevent issues. i would say it's going to be primarily environmental. Keep the room temperate and keep the Xbox off of heat-conducting surfaces. Beyond that, pray.

3) Give Microsoft a call. They may not sell you an extended warranty because of its age, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility.

That said, because it's older than three years, they might sell an extended warranty that covers everything *except* the red ring, so...

[Scoobz0202]

1) Chances are the monitor has a line in. I think there's an adapter out there that'll let you 'reverse split' the RCA audio into a single line in and plug that into a monitor. Not ideal, but since you're looking to be cheap and the alternative would be a new speaker system or a 5.1, a few bucks for one of those adapters is probably the way to go.



Samsung 204BW 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 6ms, 700:1, WSXGA+ 1680x1050, DVI, VGA, Black, Height Adjustable, 16:10 Aspect Ratio at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?Sku=S203-2014)

The above is the monitor, see there are no builit in speakers.

Is there a coupler you think that would work for headphones, maybe?

[SackAttack]

It needs to have an aux port or a line-in port for a coupler to work. If it doesn't have that, then you need a separate 2.1 or 5.1 system to hook the 360 audio into.

[Big Fo]

A new game in the Metal Gear Solid has been announced in Famitsu magazine :cool:

for iPod Touch/iPhone. :mad:

[Scoobz0202]

Wonder if a pair of headphones with that would be easy to find.

This is turning out to be more hassle then I anticipated :D

[SackAttack]

Wonder if a pair of headphones with that would be easy to find.

This is turning out to be more hassle then I anticipated :D

Sure. You can get the...X3 headphones, I think, from Best Buy. Headphones that you can use for both game sound and Xbox Live chat. They're only about a hundred bucks.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sure. You can get the...X3 headphones, I think, from Best Buy. Headphones that you can use for both game sound and Xbox Live chat. They're only about a hundred bucks.

I've heard that those headphones are excellent. I've been considering purchasing a wireless headphone set to use on my PS3. That may end up being the one.

[Neon_Chaos]

Samsung 204BW 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 6ms, 700:1, WSXGA+ 1680x1050, DVI, VGA, Black, Height Adjustable, 16:10 Aspect Ratio at TigerDirect.com (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?Sku=S203-2014)

The above is the monitor, see there are no builit in speakers.

Is there a coupler you think that would work for headphones, maybe?

You can use something like this:

Audiogear.com (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=ADPT-2RCFMSF&preadd=action)

You can plug in the male RCA jacks and plug in the male audio sterio mini jack so the audio from your XBOX goes into your headphones.

[Fidatelo]

World Tour, mostly. They had to react to that. Just like there was an anti-GH backlash for a while after Rock Band because "this is way cooler," they couldn't afford to see a similar backlash against the RB brand when World Tour came out.

But isn't World Tour just the reaction to RB1? I don't follow the exact details of these franchises super closely, which probably puts me in line with the average consumer, and in my eyes RB1 = GH:WT = RB2. Aside from track lists, I honestly don't see the difference... oh, except that GH3 sucked and RB1 has huge acclaim, so I'd purchase RB1 over GH:WT if I could choose.

I honestly think the Rock Band guys should have just spent some money on advertising RB1, especially advertising all the DLC, maybe thrown out a DLC "expansion" in November, and focused on RB2 for Q3 '09.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But isn't World Tour just the reaction to RB1? I don't follow the exact details of these franchises super closely, which probably puts me in line with the average consumer, and in my eyes RB1 = GH:WT = RB2. Aside from track lists, I honestly don't see the difference... oh, except that GH3 sucked and RB1 has huge acclaim, so I'd purchase RB1 over GH:WT if I could choose.

I honestly think the Rock Band guys should have just spent some money on advertising RB1, especially advertising all the DLC, maybe thrown out a DLC "expansion" in November, and focused on RB2 for Q3 '09.

Word of mouth was going to help GH:WT a lot. I know personally that a lot of the kids in my extended family raved on pre-release about how the GH:WT had 5 pads instead of 4 and it had cymbals! To us, it doesn't mean all that much. To kids under the age of 14, it's the latest and greatest and the cool thing to buy.

You see the same phenomenon with games like Madden. Most of us realize it's basically a roster update most years with some PR talk thrown in to promote a feature or two that doesn't enhance the game that much overall. But that same PR talk and word of mouth makes it the greatest Madden ever in the 14 and under crowd, resulting in huge (though declining) sales of a game that really isn't much of an advance over the previous version of the game.

[Scoobz0202]

You can use something like this:

Audiogear.com (http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=ADPT-2RCFMSF&preadd=action)

You can plug in the male RCA jacks and plug in the male audio sterio mini jack so the audio from your XBOX goes into your headphones.


Damn, that is exactly what I need.

Thanks a lot, Neon.

[KWhit]

Word of mouth was going to help GH:WT a lot. I know personally that a lot of the kids in my extended family raved on pre-release about how the GH:WT had 5 pads instead of 4 and it had cymbals! To us, it doesn't mean all that much. To kids under the age of 14, it's the latest and greatest and the cool thing to buy.

You see the same phenomenon with games like Madden. Most of us realize it's basically a roster update most years with some PR talk thrown in to promote a feature or two that doesn't enhance the game that much overall. But that same PR talk and word of mouth makes it the greatest Madden ever in the 14 and under crowd, resulting in huge (though declining) sales of a game that really isn't much of an advance over the previous version of the game.

Or how some people will yell and scream that PS3 IS TEH GREATEST!! AND HAS THE MOST HORSEPOWER AND SONY RULEZ AND THE WII SUCKS BUTT AND SO DOES THE 360!!!!!!!11!!ONE!!

Where most of us just want to play great games.

[SackAttack]

But isn't World Tour just the reaction to RB1? I don't follow the exact details of these franchises super closely, which probably puts me in line with the average consumer, and in my eyes RB1 = GH:WT = RB2. Aside from track lists, I honestly don't see the difference... oh, except that GH3 sucked and RB1 has huge acclaim, so I'd purchase RB1 over GH:WT if I could choose.

Well, except for the fact that it's not quite *that* straightforward. Especially, as MBBF pointed out, among a certain crowd. Really, there are three things you're trying to accomplish here, if you're EA/MTV. Three groups you're trying to cater to, if you will.

1) Retailers. You want to make sure that GHWT isn't getting the lions' share of the shelf space just because it's new and your product is older. So you release Rock Band 2 in reaction to GHWT so that you have significant shelf space for *a* Rock Band product.

2) Kids. The "nag factor" is as powerful as it ever was, and kids are going to see a few different things. One is, yeah, "the drums are way better!" Not a lot you can do about that except release the cymbal expansion after the fact if you haven't materially changed the way the game is played. Another, though, is going to be the music. DLC is definitely a trump card for Harmonix and MTV, but there are a LOT of parents out there who are worried about "that internet thing." They don't want to even hook the machine up to the network for Xbox Live Silver, for fear that the pedophiles will somehow get to their kids. Reasonable? Maybe, maybe not. Not gonna judge. But I bring that up to point out that if a kid has been playing Rock Band at a friend's house for the last year, and here comes GHWT, and NOW Mom is ready to buy one for Junior...which one is he going to ask for? The new one he hasn't played yet, or the one he's spent the last year on?

3) Stockholders. Gotta keep them happy, and "we're going to combat our primary competition by continuing to promote last year's game" probably isn't going to do that.

I honestly think the Rock Band guys should have just spent some money on advertising RB1, especially advertising all the DLC, maybe thrown out a DLC "expansion" in November, and focused on RB2 for Q3 '09.

Might be. But remember that RB1 doesn't have the ability to expand the drums for cymbals, which...and I know this sounds kinda facile, but there you are...is going to matter to the young kids. They like to bang on stuff, and the more stuff on which there is to bang, the happier they are.

It's not an A+B=C equation.

[gstelmack]

In the olden days, RB2 would have been an expansion + patch on the PC for RB1 rather than a full sequel. Not as easy to do on the console.

[RainMaker]

JamLegend :: Music Gaming Unleashed (http://www.jamlegend.com)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Or how some people will yell and scream that PS3 IS TEH GREATEST!! AND HAS THE MOST HORSEPOWER AND SONY RULEZ AND THE WII SUCKS BUTT AND SO DOES THE 360!!!!!!!11!!ONE!!

Where most of us just want to play great games.

Certainly you have the right to make those kinds of claims, but the industry trends tend to show right now that pricing of hardware and word of mouth in software are the two most powerful ways to make sales at this point. Even quality takes a secondary back seat for both hardware and software. It's a factor, but for the majority of the purchasing public, quality is not the primary deciding factor.

I do think that the people in this discussion probably use quality as a primary decision point, but the public doesn't follow that trend.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know personally that a lot of the kids in my extended family raved on pre-release about how the GH:WT had 5 pads instead of 4 and it had cymbals! To us, it doesn't mean all that much. To kids under the age of 14, it's the latest and greatest and the cool thing to buy.

Sounds like my house.

It took probably the hardest game related lobbying effort I've ever done to swing my son to RB2 instead of GH:WT as his primary game for Christmas.

Intellectually he knows he's ultimately better off with RB2 as their DLC makes up for the less appealing initial song list. Intellectually he knows that there are even more issues with the GH:WT hardware than with the RB2. But emotionally ... the extra pads go to eleven.

[Mota]

I do think that the people in this discussion probably use quality as a primary decision point, but the public doesn't follow that trend.

In the rest of the world, it's all about the hype and nothing about quality. I work in the video game industry and get tons of non-traditional gamers so intrigued with the Wii. They don't want to hear about anything else.

So at that point I wish them the best, have fun with Wii Sports for 2 weeks until the console gets turned off and becomes a dust collector.

I know tons of people with Wii's and nearly all of them go unused for long periods of time. All my friends with 360's put them through fairly regular use.

[gstelmack]

I dunno, my Wii and 360 both get tons of use. Right now MLB Power Pros 2008 is getting a ton of playing time from me.

[Fidatelo]

I go in phases, mostly based on what games are coming out. Last year I played my Wii way more through the January-April months, but since then it's been mostly 360. I plan on getting Animal Crossing at some point in the next little while, so that will likely get the Wii more prominently involved again, with the bonus of having the wife playing as well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Arstechnica puts out a 'Biggest Disappointments of 2008' list. Nintendo, Home, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Mirror's Edge, and Spore make the top list. Honorable mention goes to Sonic Unleashed and Little Big Planet.......

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081218-the-most-heart-rending-gaming-disappointments-of-2008.html

[Cringer]

Is Mirror's Edge a crap game, or is it a disappointment because of bad sales? I may rent it some time, perhaps over the holidays. From the promos it looks decent.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is Mirror's Edge a crap game, or is it a disappointment because of bad sales? I may rent it some time, perhaps over the holidays. From the promos it looks decent.

I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like it's one of those 'love it or hate it' games. You either really like the new concept of gameplay or you get bored by it. Rental sounds like a good option, especially with the shorter length of the single player game.

[Big Fo]

The demo of Mirror's Edge was alright, but I haven't played it since trying it out initially. Other games (mainly FM2009) have been sucking up all my gaming time.

[Daimyo]

Yeah, Nintendo was such a disappointment in 2008. All they could manage after the November 2007 release of Super Mario Galaxy was Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Smash Bros., and WiiWare. You really have to wonder what the 25M people who purchased one in 2008 were smoking.

[Eaglesfan27]

I posted about a couple of gaming studios closing due to the recession in the recession thread. Anyway, EA is now joining in by consolidating a studio and laying off 10% of their worldwide work force (over 1,000 people losing jobs.) They state they will narrow their product portfolio as well:

EA layoffs hit 1,000, Black Box 'consolidated' - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6202573.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1)

[Big Fo]

Free Radical (Timesplitters series, Haze) are shutting down apparently. kotaku.com link (http://kotaku.com/5113037/free-radical-shuts-down)

[SackAttack]

Arstechnica puts out a 'Biggest Disappointments of 2008' list. Nintendo, Home, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Mirror's Edge, and Spore make the top list. Honorable mention goes to Sonic Unleashed and Little Big Planet.......

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081218-the-most-heart-rending-gaming-disappointments-of-2008.html

Is Mirror's Edge a crap game, or is it a disappointment because of bad sales? I may rent it some time, perhaps over the holidays. From the promos it looks decent.

I think some of them are on the list in terms of 'disappointment to the player' and some are 'disappointment to the studio.'

LittleBIGPlanet is fantastic. It has also sold like shit warmed over.

Spore was cool for a while, but I put it away after a couple weeks, and haven't touched it since. That would be a disappointment to the player.

[Kodos]

Free Radical (Timesplitters series, Haze) are shutting down apparently. kotaku.com link (http://kotaku.com/5113037/free-radical-shuts-down)

:( I love the Timesplitters series.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yeah, Nintendo was such a disappointment in 2008. All they could manage after the November 2007 release of Super Mario Galaxy was Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Smash Bros., and WiiWare. You really have to wonder what the 25M people who purchased one in 2008 were smoking.

Ummmm, I'm guessing you didn't read the article. There's no question that the sales were good, but that doesn't have much to do with the point made in the article.

[Daimyo]

Actually I did read the article. The article stated that there wasn't much released by Nintendo in 2008 and I listed four things from Nintendo that were all really good and a fifth that was right before the cutoff. I didn't even include games like Animal Crossing that are huge for some people, but not for me. How many good games did Microsoft or Sony publish in 2008?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Actually I did read the article. The article stated that there wasn't much released by Nintendo in 2008 and I listed four things from Nintendo that were all really good and a fifth that was right before the cutoff. I didn't even include games like Animal Crossing that are huge for some people, but not for me. How many good games did Microsoft or Sony publish in 2008?

Obviously, both Sony and Microsoft had very good years related to software releases. Sony likely had the best of the three, but does it matter if no one notices because the system is so expensive?

Including WiiWare as a good release is a huge stretch. It's a download/development platform, not a game. And it really doesn't have a mass market appeal to the casual gamer.

I don't think that there's any question that the Wii had a down year from the perspective of game releases. The article was spot-on in that regard. With that said, the people who bought the console do have other options from past years to catch up on at a discount price. Many Wii owners are hoping that the lull in games in 2008 means a big uptick in games next year. Hopefully that's the case.

[Samdari]

I don't think that there's any question that the Wii had a down year from the perspective of game releases.

You need to rephrase this.

There is no question that the Wii had a down year from the perspecitve of game releases that appeal TO YOU.

Smash Bros Brawl, Mario Kart, Wii Fit - all huge successes. Most console owners buy 4 or less games per year, right? Wii owners may even tend tend to buy less. They are not going to be disappointed at all that there weren't 20+ quality 3rd party games released for the system. They are going to buy Smash Bros, GH/RB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit (if they can find them, 6 and 7 months post release - definitely a bad year for games on that system) maybe a Boom Blox or some other smaller title (and there are a few good ones). They are not going to feel that this was a down year for releases, instead they are going to feel like they are playing great games and continue to love their system.

Its amazing that you want people to take you seriously, yet you continue to paint huge successes by Nintendo in the darkest possible terms, compared to the shining light of the dismal failures of the other two platforms. We get it, the Wii does not appeal to you. We get it, its not the right system for a "serious" gamer like yourself.

Why is it so important to you to convince the rest of the world they are flat out wrong for liking it?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You need to rephrase this.

There is no question that the Wii had a down year from the perspecitve of game releases that appeal TO YOU.

Smash Bros Brawl, Mario Kart, Wii Fit - all huge successes. Most console owners buy 4 or less games per year, right? Wii owners may even tend tend to buy less. They are not going to be disappointed at all that there weren't 20+ quality 3rd party games released for the system. They are going to buy Smash Bros, GH/RB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit (if they can find them, 6 and 7 months post release - definitely a bad year for games on that system) maybe a Boom Blox or some other smaller title (and there are a few good ones). They are not going to feel that this was a down year for releases, instead they are going to feel like they are playing great games and continue to love their system.

Three big games over the course of a year is a disappointment to any system. I'd even give the nod that the Wii is somewhat a victim of its own success in that regard. They blew out all their big games early in the console life and it paid off in spades in regards to console sales.

The Mario creator admitted in an interview earlier this year that Wii Music was the final big title that he had envisioned for the console and that they weren't even sure what was next. Thanks to the success of the 1st person titles, a whole lot of sequels is the likely next step. Another Zelda is already in the works along with a 3rd party sequel of Boom Blox.

As for the backlog of good games, I pointed that out in my previous post as a positive for the Wii. I'm assuming you're agreeing with my point in that regard.

Its amazing that you want people to take you seriously, yet you continue to paint huge successes by Nintendo in the darkest possible terms, compared to the shining light of the dismal failures of the other two platforms. We get it, the Wii does not appeal to you.

I stated that the good games on the PS3 don't do a whiff of good if the console remains at a high price. That's certainly not a 'shining light' assessment. I've been very forthright in how disappointing Sony's handling of the price structure has been.

[Samdari]

Three big games over the course of a year is a disappointment to any system.

You responded before I finished my edit, but I thing you're wrong on this point.

With attach rates being what they are, three great releases per year seems to satisfy 2/3 (or more) of console owners. And I don't think Nintendo minds at all that all of them are their titles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

With attach rates being what they are, three great releases per year seems to satisfy 2/3 (or more) of console owners. And I don't think Nintendo minds at all that all of them are their titles.

I'd actually agree with that with one caviat. I think your statement is true of Nintendo, but not the other consoles. Nintendo fans generally have a relatively narrow focus in regards to games. If Nintendo releases 3 big games, I'd agree that most of the user base will like those games because Nintendo is know for putting out great quality games and something that caters to their fans (Wii Music being the exception thus far).

On the 360, 3 great games won't be enough. The only possible way that might work is 3 great shooters since the 360 base tends to gravitate to those games.

There's absolutely no way that 3 good PS3 games of different genres will cut it. There's far too many variances in what their owner base likes. Price aside, the lack of focus on any genre has hurt Sony IMO. PR has been a nightmare as well.

[gstelmack]

If Nintendo is considered to have had a bad year, then can I have some of that pain please?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If Nintendo is considered to have had a bad year, then can I have some of that pain please?

Agreed. It's a good situation for them when they can put out a small number of quality titles and still sell tons of hardware.

[Big Fo]

Compared to what they have released up to that point, Nintendo's fall/Christmas 2008 lineup for Wii (Mario Super Sluggers, Wario Land: Shake It, Animal Crossing, and Wii Music) isn't up there with Aug 2007 to May 2008 where they came out with a ton of good to great games (Mario Strikers Charged, Metroid Prime 3, Battalion Wars 2, Fire Emblem, Super Mario Galaxy, Link's Crossbow Training, Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart Wii, Wii Fit).

Since standard practice in the video games industry has been to release your best stuff in the fall, the gaming media looks back at the last few months and calls 2008 a disappointment. If Wii Music and Animal Crossing had swapped release dates with Mario Kart Wii and SSB:B I bet Nintendo's 2008 would be viewed in a more positive light despite all the games coming out in 2008 either way. How many great games is one company expected to produce per year anyway? Even Nintendo can't maintain their late 2007-early 2008 pace all the time.

As far as whatis coming from Nintendo on the Wii for 2009 and the future, here's what I know of:

The New Play Control series (GameCube ports with added features or IR/motion controls):

Pikmin - March 09
Mario Tennis - March 09
Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat, Chibi-Robo! - dates TBA

Wii games confirmed for North America in 2009

Wii Sports Resort - Spring 2009 (includes Wii Motion Plus)
Punch Out Wii
Sin and Punishment 2

Wii games released elsewhere in 2008, waiting for NA announcements in '09:

Disaster: Day of Crisis
Fatal Frame IV
Captain Rainbow (likely not coming over)

Wii games announced for 2009 release in Japan, still waiting for NA info, some but not all will be coming probably:


* Start w/ 100 Conversations! English Conversation (probably not coming over obviously)
* Another Code: R, Gateway of Memory
* Kensax
* Cosmic Walker
* Spawn Smasher
* Dynamic Slash
* Tact of Magic
* Forever Blue 2: Beautiful Ocean
* Everyone's the Star on the NHK Red-and-White Quiz Battle
* Line Attack Heroes

Games it's known Nintendo is working on, release dates unknown anywhere:

Kirby
next Mario platformer
next Legend of Zelda
Pikmin 3

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

THQ cancels the PS3 version of the Destroy No Humans 3, citing "development problems" as the primary reason for canceling the PS3 version. They are still releasing a 360 version next week:

THQ Destroying no Humans on PS3 - News at GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201734.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;6)

Judging from the reviews on the 360 version, they probably should have cited development problems on the 360 as well and not released it at all. They obviously have development problems on all platforms, not just the PS3. Following review is pretty similar to other reviews of the game.............

Review: Destroy All Humans! Path of the Furon - Loot Ninja (http://loot-ninja.com/2008/12/22/review-destroy-all-humans-path-of-the-furon/)

[Eaglesfan27]

The sole reason I'm hoping I get a PS3 for Christmas:

ESPN - MLB 09 The Show: Exclusive first look - Videogames (http://sports.espn.go.com/videogames/news/story?id=3775962)

[SackAttack]

They are releasing it in Europe still, though, so maybe they'll solve the problems and then the PS3 will get to go 'nanny nanny boo boo' with a region-free release that doesn't suck?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The sole reason I'm hoping I get a PS3 for Christmas:

ESPN - MLB 09 The Show: Exclusive first look - Videogames (http://sports.espn.go.com/videogames/news/story?id=3775962)

Wow. Just wow. You're definitely right that it's the biggest and best reason to own a PS3.

[Neon_Chaos]

Well, one month in and my PS3 is essentially collecting dust. Too many good games on the 360 right now for me to be bothered to buy any for the PS3. I'm going to shop for Bluray movies so that the PS3 can get some exercise.

[GrantDawg]

Punch Out Wii? Color me excited.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Punch Out Wii? Color me excited.

Yeah, that's definitely one to be excited about. Motion controls should work well for that one.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

A few articles of interest. First, it looks like 3D game development will be available as an option in 2009. Probably a pie in the sky thought, but it's worth watching as this is expected to be the next big home entertainment thing.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200812/N08.1219.1622.44781.htm

PS3 build price has come down to $448. That's a vast improvement, but it demonstrates why Sony is in the predicament they are in. They can't drop prices at this point and make any profit.

Teardown of Sony's PlayStation 3 - BusinessWeek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2008/tc20081222_257990.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology)

Gaming has been demonstrated to improve brain function for people who are 60+ years of age.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE4BI63O20081219

[Big Fo]

The 60 GB PS3 cost $840 to make at launch :eek:

Sony should have present-proofed it in addition to making it future-proof.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The 60 GB PS3 cost $840 to make at launch :eek:

Sony should have present-proofed it in addition to making it future-proof.

Oh yeah. That was widely reported before release. Obviously a very expensive lesson for Sony.

[SackAttack]

A few articles of interest. First, it looks like 3D game development will be available as an option in 2009. Probably a pie in the sky thought, but it's worth watching as this is expected to be the next big home entertainment thing.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200812/N08.1219.1622.44781.htm

PS3 build price has come down to $448. That's a vast improvement, but it demonstrates why Sony is in the predicament they are in. They can't drop prices at this point and make any profit.

They can't leave prices where they are and make any profit, either.

Why not drop prices to spur the install base and hope like hell that the new buyers get in on blu-ray as well as a result, since that's supposed to be the second pillar of Sony's profit base?

[Mustang]

Speaking of PS3 prices, anyone know who has the best bundle deal out there presently (or possibly in another week or so?)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Why not drop prices to spur the install base and hope like hell that the new buyers get in on blu-ray as well as a result, since that's supposed to be the second pillar of Sony's profit base?

Welcome to the thoughts of the entire industry in June 2008. :D

[Kodos]

Gotta be honest. I've played more PS2 games on my PS3 than PS3 games so far. Doesn't help that most games that I might do multiplayer on are bought for the 360 due to the large contingent from FOFC. Mostly, mine has been a DVD/Blu Ray player so far.

[Jon]

Here's a quick question that I'm certain has been asked hundreds of times:
after years of both consoles being out, which system is better--xbox 360 or PS3? Is the red ring of death a killer for most 360s? I may upgrade my system and am wondering which one to get.

[Kodos]

I think if you want to play multiplayer, go with the 360. If you plan to play by yourself most of the time, go with the PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Gotta be honest. I've played more PS2 games on my PS3 than PS3 games so far. Doesn't help that most games that I might do multiplayer on are bought for the 360 due to the large contingent from FOFC. Mostly, mine has been a DVD/Blu Ray player so far.

The community definitely has something to do with it. I'm a regular over at CAG and they have Warhawk game nights on the PS3 with 200-300 people in multiple rooms. Gears and Halo are obviously the big ones on the 360. Warhawk, Metal Gear Online, and SOCOM: Confrontation have big followings on the PS3. COD4 is also still huge on both systems. Really just depends on preference more than anything else.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here's a quick question that I'm certain has been asked hundreds of times:
after years of both consoles being out, which system is better--xbox 360 or PS3? Is the red ring of death a killer for most 360s? I may upgrade my system and am wondering which one to get.

Depends on what you want. If you are someone who has a HDTV and expects to get a Blu-ray player, the PS3 is the clear choice at this point. It's a great value as a gaming and home entertainment platform. If you don't expect to be a Blu-ray user, the 360 is the better option at this point assuming you purchase the cheaper model. There's some inherent risk of failure, but the cheaper price of the base system probably justifies the risk.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think if you want to play multiplayer, go with the 360. If you plan to play by yourself most of the time, go with the PS3.

So true. I still have very few friends who have/play a PS3, but most of my friends who I game with have a 360. Even if I get a PS3 tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be buying most of my sports games on the 360 to play with guys from here in MP leagues/online games.

[Kodos]

In a way, it's a shame, because the dual shock is my favorite controller, but all my sports games get bought on the 360. It pretty much has to be an exclusive or an offline game for me to buy it on the PS3.

[cartman]

There's some inherent risk of failure, but the cheaper price of the base system probably justifies the risk.

This is only true these days if you buy a used launch model. From all reports out there, starting with the Falcon design, the failure rates of the 360 have fallen dramatically, and are no better or worse than the failure rates for the PS3 or Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is only true these days if you buy a used launch model. From all reports out there, starting with the Falcon design, the failure rates of the 360 have fallen dramatically, and are no better or worse than the failure rates for the PS3 or Wii.

The Wii and PS3 failure rates are between .2 and .3%, which is extremely good for an electronics product. Even the Falcon model still has a failure rate well in excess of that number. They've done a pretty good job of compiling numbers over in the RROD NeoGaf thread. Interestingly enough, the reduction in failure from the 30% pre-Falcon to sub 10% post-Falcon has been offset by the fact that Microsoft is replacing the pre-Falcon models with the Xenon which was returned in record number and sending them out as replacements. The return rates of the refurbished units are off the charts.

It's silly to even engage in this discussion at this point. Anyone who tries to say that the 360 failure rate is in the same ballpark as the other two systems is merely whistling through the graveyard. The evidence is overwhelmingly against the 360 on that front.

[hukarez]

http://i44.tinypic.com/24y5lyv.jpg

[Fidatelo]

So true. I still have very few friends who have/play a PS3, but most of my friends who I game with have a 360. Even if I get a PS3 tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be buying most of my sports games on the 360 to play with guys from here in MP leagues/online games.

My brother owns both a PS3 and 360. When his 360 went tits up a few weeks ago and wasn't covered under warranty (wasn't an RROD), he went out and bought another one to replace it, which pretty much went against every fiber in his being because he was so angry at MS for their crappy hardware. His reason? All of his friends play online with their 360's, and the PS3 just can't fill that void. I suspect this is true of most gamers at this point.

[Mustang]

Such compelling arguments they bring up. I had not thought about the cons of having to plug it into the TV.

[Eaglesfan27]

The Wii and PS3 failure rates are between .2 and .3%

I think you are going to find this isn't true by this time next year. It took time for the RROD data to come out and there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that both the PS3 and Wii rates of failure are much higher than has been reported.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think you are going to find this isn't true by this time next year. It took time for the RROD data to come out and there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that both the PS3 and Wii rates of failure are much higher than has been reported.

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up. :D

Sure, go to OS or any of the major gaming boards and look at the various threads about people's PS3's dying. There are many threads on gaming boards about it. There was also a recent thread on Gamespot where an editor wrote about his PS3 dying. There have been quite a few people here who have reported having their PS3's already having to be sent in for repairs as well.

[Voo]

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up. :D


In the smallest of sample sizes I have sent back 1 of both systems for repairs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sure, go to OS or any of the major gaming boards and look at the various threads about people's PS3's dying. There are many threads on gaming boards about it. There was also a recent thread on Gamespot where an editor wrote about his PS3 dying. There have been quite a few people here who have reported having their PS3's already having to be sent in for repairs as well.

Link would be great. Thanks.

[MJ4H]

I hear very few stories about people's Wiis needing repair, and I hang out at a lot of Wii-centric places.

[SackAttack]

My PS3 turned on one morning to report that it had to "rebuild the hard drive," and spent the next day and a half so doing. Or attempting. That's the only issue I've seen reported with any regularity.

[Eaglesfan27]

I hear very few stories about people's Wiis needing repair, and I hang out at a lot of Wii-centric places.

I've read much less than the PS3. I just hear about a fair number of disc read errors (I've had several myself, particularly with Smash Brothers.)

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them ;)

[Cringer]

Here's a quick question that I'm certain has been asked hundreds of times:
after years of both consoles being out, which system is better--xbox 360 or PS3? Is the red ring of death a killer for most 360s? I may upgrade my system and am wondering which one to get.

I bought a 360 within 6 months after it came out, and still have the same one. I would say I got somewhat lucky there just from what others always say. Still, always have loved the system. (I did need to have the dvd drive replaced earlier this year)

Just got a PS3, uh...er, a couple months ago now I guess. Anyways, I love it. I think it's the complete package with built in wireless internet connection, BR, my favorite controller, free Playstation Network.

With that said, I echo what others say. If you want online play with people you know then 360 is probably the way to go. I don't know people and don't care about who I play with (yes, I fondle strangers), so playing on PSN is just fine for me and I am having a blast playing COD: World at War on there when I can. I have never even hooked up my 360 online, but I am sure it is better for that as everyone says.

PS3 best system to me, just not enough people with one to win the MP battle.

[MJ4H]

I've read much less than the PS3. I just hear about a fair number of disc read errors (I've had several myself, particularly with Smash Brothers.)

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them ;)

Ah, a fair point. I remember when Brawl was released there was a mini-flurry of people reporting their machines couldn't read the disc because it was in a new kind of format that required the lens to be cleaner or something like that. Don't remember the exact reason, but there was something like that now that you mention it.

[Eaglesfan27]

My last patient is a no show, so I just did a quick search on OS. Here is a thread in which much more than 0.3% of the respondents note a problem (specifically the Blu Ray Drive dies.) The thread quickly veers off topic, but it is useful info as it points out that users are getting charged by Sony if it isn't within the 1 year warranty or they haven't purchased the extended warranty. There are multiple similar threads on OS and other places that can easily be found.

Anyone buying any of these consoles (except maybe the Wii) should invest in an extended warranty. Give it another year and I'm willing to bet money that the PS3 failure rate will be much higher than what was initially reported:




Operation Sports Forums (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/console-portable-talk/251755-ps3-problem.html)

[Fidatelo]

I disagree with ever purchasing an extended warranty on any electronics. The 360 is the only product I would even consider it on, and even then, I'd take my chances. Extended warranties are a great way to throw away your money.

[Atocep]

My last patient is a no show, so I just did a quick search on OS. Here is a thread in which much more than 0.3% of the respondents note a problem (specifically the Blu Ray Drive dies.) The thread quickly veers off topic, but it is useful info as it points out that users are getting charged by Sony if it isn't within the 1 year warranty or they haven't purchased the extended warranty. There are multiple similar threads on OS and other places that can easily be found.

Anyone buying any of these consoles (except maybe the Wii) should invest in an extended warranty. Give it another year and I'm willing to bet money that the PS3 failure rate will be much higher than what was initially reported:




Operation Sports Forums (http://www.operationsports.com/forums/console-portable-talk/251755-ps3-problem.html)



I posted something about my experiences dealing with Sony in another thread, but my PS3 died about a month or so ago and I when I looked at the Playstation forums for info on the problem there was certainly quite a few with the exact same problem I was experiencing (PS3 wasn't reading any disks).

Their customer support was absolutely horrible as well.

Microsoft and Nintendo will usually do their repairs without a receipt (at least from what I read on their forums). Sony will not; not under any circumstances I tried to work around it because after a move I couldn't find the receipt and the manufacture date was less than a year from when I was calling them about it breaking (seemed pretty simple to me). The person I spoke told me that sounded reasonable and that they would push the issue up the chain and for me to call back to check on the status of my issue. I call back a week and a half later and the customer service rep I spoke to then told me there weren't any notes on my account to show something was being worked on or that I had even called them. So my options were to either pay $150 to repair a PS3 that was under warranty or see if Best Buy could find my receipt in their records. Luckily, after speaking with a Best Buy manager they were able to find my receipt after about 10 minutes of searching purchases made with my bank card.

I also asked Sony why they wouldn't repair my PS3 under warranty even though the manufacture date was under a year and I was told that a receipt isn't actually to prove the date of purchase, its to prove that I didn't steal my PS3.

On the bright side, they are incredibly fast in getting your PS3 back to you. Took about a week for me to get it back from the day I sent it to them.

[Daimyo]

The RROD stuff was just starting to hit the radar 25 months into the 360's lifecycle and the shit didn't really hit the fan until a few months after that. The PS3 is just now in its 25th month.

I don't think anyone expects the PS3 to ultimately come near the 360's failure rate. At the same time, two years in is too early for the failure numbers to mean much.

[Eaglesfan27]

The RROD stuff was just starting to hit the radar 25 months into the 360's lifecycle and the shit didn't really hit the fan until a few months after that. The PS3 is just now in its 25th month.

I don't think anyone expects the PS3 to ultimately come near the 360's failure rate. At the same time, two years in is too early for the failure numbers to mean much.

That is all I was saying.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them ;)

Of course I will, because your assertion is ludicrous. You produced a thread with barely 50 posts. The RROD thread on this board alone is larger than that. The RROD/DVD drive error thread on NeoGaf now is over 9500 posts and growing daily. There's little question that anyone even comparing the two situations got the gift of laughing gas from Santa yesterday. The 360 has been a QA nightmare.

It should be noted that I know you to be a very smart person. I get the distinct impression that you'd rather yank my chain in this thread more than anything else. :D

[SirFozzie]

Wow. Year Over Year Sales DOWN nearly 20% in November (any good games released Nov 07 compared to Nov 08?) and they expect that sales will either be flat or down this month.

Really looks like Sony gambled that people wanted their video game systems to be and do MORE, and with the recession in full swing, lost big time.

PS3 Sags in Battle Again Xbox 360, Wii - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123050978162738293.html)

If Sony doesn't close the gap with its rivals, it could risk making the PS3 an afterthought to game publishers, who focus most of their resources on the machines with the most users. At the end of September, the Wii had a wide lead with nearly 35 million units sold since its launch in 2006 compared with about 22 million Xbox 360 consoles and 17 million PS3 machines. Nintendo last month sold 2 million Wii machines in the U.S., while Microsoft sold 836,000 Xbox 360s and Sony sold 378,000 PS3s, according to NPD.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. Year Over Year Sales DOWN nearly 20% in November (any good games released Nov 07 compared to Nov 08?) and they expect that sales will either be flat or down this month.

Really looks like Sony gambled that people wanted their video game systems to be and do MORE, and with the recession in full swing, lost big time.

PS3 Sags in Battle Again Xbox 360, Wii - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123050978162738293.html)

If Sony doesn't close the gap with its rivals, it could risk making the PS3 an afterthought to game publishers, who focus most of their resources on the machines with the most users. At the end of September, the Wii had a wide lead with nearly 35 million units sold since its launch in 2006 compared with about 22 million Xbox 360 consoles and 17 million PS3 machines. Nintendo last month sold 2 million Wii machines in the U.S., while Microsoft sold 836,000 Xbox 360s and Sony sold 378,000 PS3s, according to NPD.

There's a few silly statements in the article, but there's absolutely no new info. It's basically another author looking for page views by stirring the fanboy pot. Little has changed since the discussion in last month's thread. Until the PS3 price drops, there's really not much of a sales race to discuss.

The real news story that you should have been posting if you wanted to post something new was that Sony's Stringer made the statement that he didn't think they'd have a price drop until Summer 2009. Previous stories noted that a price drop was likely in Feb./March 2009. My guess is that they believe that sales in the interim won't improve enough with a price drop given the economy. I'm not sure I follow that logic as a couple of months won't make that big of a difference..

It is looking more and more likely that this generation may hang around longer than previous consoles given the global financial situation. Both Microsoft and Sony are suggesting that it doesn't make sense to release a console in 2010-2011. We may see the companies stick with the status quo, trying to increase the profitible end game of the console and wait to release a new console until the economic climate improves.

[Big Fo]

I don't think Sony will start losing a ton of games. The PS3 still sells well enough for it to get versions of 360 games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I don't think Sony will start losing a ton of games. The PS3 still sells well enough for it to get versions of 360 games.

It's the opposite regarding software. PS3 makes more profit for the major publishers than the 360 software despite the smaller number of units sold. Hardware is the real issue for Sony. It's just too damn expensive.

[Ryan S]

It's the opposite regarding software. PS3 makes more profit for the major publishers than the 360 software despite the smaller number of units sold.

Why? Is Microsoft taking a huge fee for licensing?

[SirFozzie]

There's a few silly statements in the article, but there's absolutely no new info. It's basically another author looking for page views by stirring the fanboy pot. Little has changed since the discussion in last month's thread. Until the PS3 price drops, there's really not much of a sales race to discuss.

Because, you know the Wall Street Journal needs the page views and has to resort to "Stirring the fanboy pot".

Do you even believe half the shit you write?

[Cringer]

I hope this generation of systems stick around longer then normal. Heck, it seems like it just started in many ways. I mean the PS2 still sells, there really is no point in moving too far ahead of what is needed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Because, you know the Wall Street Journal needs the page views and has to resort to "Stirring the fanboy pot".

Do you even believe half the shit you write?

It happens whether you choose to accept that or not. The media isn't getting richer writing stories about a guy helping an old lady across the street. Articles on the console war get posted to message boards everywhere and help increase advertising revenue. They know that stories like this drive page views and revenue. Your assumption that the Wall Street Journal doesn't need page views is highly flawed and without much merit. If anything, they need them now more than ever.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I hope this generation of systems stick around longer then normal. Heck, it seems like it just started in many ways. I mean the PS2 still sells, there really is no point in moving too far ahead of what is needed.

Agreed. I think a longer than normal generation would help the industry quite a bit. The HD graphics in this generation are a pretty good step forward and the developers are really starting to put out some good work at this point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Why? Is Microsoft taking a huge fee for licensing?

There is a good-sized licensing fee involved, but I'm pretty sure that's not the whole reason for the difference in profits.

Interestingly enough, the PS2 is still raking in great profit numbers in companies like EA. The development costs are very low and the installed base is large. They can make a lot of money with very little effort on that console.

[wade moore]

There is a good-sized licensing fee involved, but I'm pretty sure that's not the whole reason for the difference in profits.

Interestingly enough, the PS2 is still raking in great profit numbers in companies like EA. The development costs are very low and the installed base is large. They can make a lot of money with very little effort on that console.

Do you have facts to back this up? I can't imagine that companies make more on PS3 sales than 360 sales when the 360 sells twice as many games.

[Daimyo]

If its true, it must be creative accounting. My guess is that because the 360 is used as the primary development platform the bulk of development costs get counted as expenses on the 360 side and only the relatively minor costs of porting get counted as expenses on the PS3 side.

[Eaglesfan27]

If its true, it must be creative accounting. My guess is that because the 360 is used as the primary development platform the bulk of development costs get counted as expenses on the 360 side and only the relatively minor costs of porting get counted as expenses on the PS3 side.

That is exactly the reason and it has been posted in several articles which I'm sure MBBF has read.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Do you have facts to back this up? I can't imagine that companies make more on PS3 sales than 360 sales when the 360 sells twice as many games.

Easy thing to do is to look up some of the major multiplatform developers for any FY2009 quarter. EA is a prime example. Their biggest profit source on the 3 major consoles has been the PS3 thus far this year.

Here's a link for the investor's reports for EA....

http://investor.ea.com

Income numbers for Q1 of FY2008 and FY2009 (April-June) are below:

Q1 FY2009

PS3: 139mln
360: 81mln
PS2: 79mln
Wii: 57mln

Q1 FY 2008

PS2: 61mln
360: 47mln
Wii: 29mln
PS3: 13mln

[sterlingice]

Easy thing to do is to look up some of the major multiplatform developers for any FY2009 quarter. EA is a prime example. Their biggest profit source on the 3 major consoles has been the PS3 thus far this year.

Here's a link for Q1 report for EA....

http://investor.ea.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=88189&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1180823&highlight=

Income numbers for Q1 of FY2008 and FY2009 (April-June) are below:

Anyone else getting a 404?

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Anyone else getting a 404?

SI

Just use the generic site name, which has links that should allow you to access the report.....

Electronic Arts Inc. - Investor Relations (http://investor.ea.com)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That is exactly the reason and it has been posted in several articles which I'm sure MBBF has read.

Obviously I haven't or I would have posted that information. I know it's fun to poke the monkey in the cage, but would it be too much to ask that you provide the information first to counter my point rather than assuming that I'm ignoring articles that I haven't read? If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

[Eaglesfan27]

Obviously I haven't or I would have posted that information. I know it's fun to poke the monkey in the cage, but would it be too much to ask that you provide the information first to counter my point rather than assuming that I'm ignoring articles that I haven't read? If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

I read these articles months ago and don't remember where to find a link to them and google is not helping me right now. However, it is why developers cancel the PS3 version of games that they are having difficulty getting ported such as the recent release of the Destroy all Aliens game, or whatever it is called. It is a fact that many companies develop on the 360 because it is easier to develop for (and easier to port to the PC) and then port to the PS3. Therefore, development costs are primarily attributed to the 360 version.

[sterlingice]

If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

No, but you do like to make smartass leading questions posts that you think you already know the answer to (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=1910794&postcount=1829).

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I read these articles months ago and don't remember where to find a link to them and google is not helping me right now. However, it is why developers cancel the PS3 version of games that they are having difficulty getting ported such as the recent release of the Destroy all Aliens game, or whatever it is called. It is a fact that many companies develop on the 360 because it is easier to develop for (and easier to port to the PC) and then port to the PS3. Therefore, development costs are primarily attributed to the 360 version.

And as I've already mentioned in this thread, using the Destroy All Aliens game as an example is one of the worst arguments you can make. The reviews and feedback on that game for the 360 show that development group didn't know how to make a 360 game either and should have cancelled both versions of the game. It's a blessing that game wasn't released on the PS3 because it was a poor excuse for a game.

I'd also like to see those articles to determine why the accountant didn't spread those costs across all platforms on the multiplatform games if what you say is true. I'm trying to think back to my accounting classes to determine a situation where that would be adventageous to the company. May have to drag out the text books when I get home.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No, but you do like to make smartass leading questions posts that you think you already know the answer to (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=1910794&postcount=1829).

SI

Yes, well we all know that no one else engages in that practice on this board. Not a smart ass in this group outside of me.

[Kodos]

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans. :)

[sterlingice]

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans. :)

You would know ;)

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans. :)

Should have been named 'Destroy the Developers'.

[Kodos]

I'm just going to use Yellowstone to accomplish that goal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting read for those who haven't heard this story before. In summary, Microsoft worked with IBM to build the 360 chip based on the development being done on the Cell processor in the exact same building. It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........

Playing the Fool - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123069467545545011.html)

[cartman]

It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........


You make that sound like a bad thing.

[Big Fo]

It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9321/controllerevolution1dz5.jpg

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You make that sound like a bad thing.

On the contrary, it's worked extremely well for them from a profitability standpoint, especially in the PC market.

[sterlingice]

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9321/controllerevolution1dz5.jpg

Someone needs to make a line from the Gamecube controller to the original XBox controller as well. The 4 buttons are not configured the same but they are in the same place as are the two analog sticks and the control panel. So let's not pretend Microsoft doesn't do the exact same thing.

SI

[dervack]

No mention that Sony and Nintendo were working on a disc based system together and then Sony changed their mind and released the Playstation system?

[SackAttack]

No mention that Sony and Nintendo were working on a disc based system together and then Sony changed their mind and released the Playstation system?

Revisionist history.

Nintendo signed a deal with Sony to create a disc-based add-on to the SNES called the SuperDisc.

Problem was, the way the contract was originally written, it gave Sony control over ALL SuperDisc licensing. Games, non-games, whatever. Basically would have bled Nintendo dry.

Nintendo signed a deal with Phillips to get Sony back to the negotiating table, which ultimately worked, and did ultimately give Nintendo back licensing control over the games, but it wasn't Sony changing their mind that led to the PlayStation finding separate release. Nintendo dragged their heels on CD - stuck with silicon chips for N64, so Sony struck out on their own.

But Sony didn't make the decision to do that unilaterally.

[SackAttack]

Someone needs to make a line from the Gamecube controller to the original XBox controller as well. The 4 buttons are not configured the same but they are in the same place as are the two analog sticks and the control panel. So let's not pretend Microsoft doesn't do the exact same thing.

SI

Well, in fairness, Xbox and GameCube were released three days apart, and Xbox hit the shelves first. Unless the GameCube controller design got released ridiculously early in the development of the system, it's hard to make a direct ripoff accusation there. Not like the analog PlayStation controller coming out two years after the N64, for sure.

[twothree]

If you live in the midwest and have a Meijer near you, my local Meijer store has both Lego Indiana Jones and Lego Batman for the PS3 on sale this week for only $14.99. They also might have had those prices for the XBOX360 versions, but I forgot to look.

Edited to add: The sale has ended.

[gstelmack]

Sony slams 360, Wii as "peddling add-ons". They do a nice feature-set comparison of the $399 PS3, $249 Wii, and $199 360 Arcade, which of course allows them to tout things like "HDMI" that are available on the $299 360... Nice try to take advantage of your higher price point, though.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56661

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony slams 360, Wii as "peddling add-ons". They do a nice feature-set comparison of the $399 PS3, $249 Wii, and $199 360 Arcade, which of course allows them to tout things like "HDMI" that are available on the $299 360... Nice try to take advantage of your higher price point, though.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/56661

There's no question that the PS3 is a fine system, but using that kind of logic to justify why it's so much more expensive than the other systems is falling on deaf ear. They need to spend less time comparing geeky feature sets and more time showing off video footage of games and dropping the price. Sony's PR is a disaster right now. I'm guessing it will be one of the major overhauls with the rumored Sony restructuring that is supposed to happen soon.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is pretty good news for Sony and Microsoft. If the prediction of a longer current generation does come to pass, it will allow both Microsoft and Sony a couple extra years on the end of this generation, allowing them to finally make some noticable profit on the current consoles. These kinds of announcements also result in better development support on those consoles since the developer has a longer period of time to work on the known development platform rather than reinventing the wheel again on a new platform.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11417526?nclick_check=1

Microsoft will rely on its Xbox 360 game console for longer than the previous version because it's getting harder to persuade consumers to upgrade, the head of the company's entertainment unit said.

The world's largest software maker will focus on improving the Xbox's games and features rather than rushing to introduce a new model, President Robbie Bach said in an interview.

"Just coming up with something that's faster and prettier isn't going to be sufficient," said Bach, 47. "The life cycle for this generation of consoles — and I'm not just talking about Xbox, I'd include Wii and PS3 as well — is probably going to be a little longer than previous generations."

"When you look at consumers, they are going to be more value-conscious," Bach said.

"We want to make sure that as the economy does start to recover, that we're positioned well."

[Coffee Warlord]

God, blisters are developing on my thumb just from looking at the original Ninteno controller. Ahhh, the old days.

[wade moore]

Totally random 360 questions for those reading this thread..

How do I change the default profile that loads up when I start the 360?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm not sure Wade.


For those with the Xbox Arcade Edition, there is either a free or cheap upgrade option available via www.xboxstorageupgrade.com (http://www.xboxstorageupgrade.com) where you can get a 20 GB refurbished harddrive and 3 months of Xbox Live Gold for either free or 29.99 (the announcement is a bit ambigious, it sounds like it is free, but then mentions it is a 29.99 value.) However, I can't go any further to look because you have to enter the Console Serial number of your arcade version.

[cartman]

For those with the Xbox Arcade Edition, there is either a free or cheap upgrade option available via www.xboxstorageupgrade.com (http://www.xboxstorageupgrade.com) where you can get a 20 GB refurbished harddrive and 3 months of Xbox Live Gold for either free or 29.99 (the announcement is a bit ambigious, it sounds like it is free, but then mentions it is a 29.99 value.) However, I can't go any further to look because you have to enter the Console Serial number of your arcade version.

It's a 20GB refurb HDD plus 3 months of Xbox Live Gold for $29.99. My aunt got this for her Xbox 360 Arcade, just so she could DL tracks for Rock Band.

[stevew]

Thanks. My niece got an arcade and I will forward the link to her grandma.

[Cringer]

My Grandma made cakes and knitted things.

[stevew]

I guess I could have said mother in law. :)

[Big Fo]

The PlayStation 2 recently passed 50 million sold in North America. (7 million more than total sales in the US)

gamesutra.com (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21837)

Going by the 2008 statistics of 2.56 people per American household there are roughly 117 million households in the US, therefore 36% of homes have a PS2 (although I'm sure some portion of these were replacements for consoles that broke). It's still impressive though.

[Cringer]

These people are going to flip their lids when they find out about the PS3 coming out any time now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

These people are going to flip their lids when they find out about the PS3 coming out any time now.

Most already have flipped their lids about the PS3, but it's mainly due to the high price at this point.

[Cringer]

MBBF, one of us today is taking the other's posts much more serious then they should be taken. My problem is, I honestly can't figure out if it's you or I doing this. Use smilies in applicable places please. ;)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MBBF, one of us today is taking the other's posts much more serious then they should be taken. My problem is, I honestly can't figure out if it's you or I doing this. Use smilies in applicable places please. ;)

Naw, I'm not taking them too seriously. I'm just not a huge fan of smilies, which likely leaves my posts open to misinterpretation. When in doubt, blame me.

[Cringer]

:thumbsup:

[Big Fo]

Rumor: DSi U.S. Launch Date, Price Revealed (http://ds.ign.com/articles/944/944589p1.html)

Multiple sources close to Nintendo tell IGN that the company is gearing up to debut the anticipated successor to its DS Lite handheld during the first half of this year in America. More specifically, the company has allegedly relayed to its partners that DSi will ship stateside in early April, most likely on April 4. Insiders assert that they have been told the system will retail for $179.99 when it launches domestically.

NOA's president had previously said not to expect the DSi until the latter half of the year.

[Big Fo]

December numbers come out on Thursday, here's one of the usual estimates from EEDAR compared to NPD results from December 2007:
http://www.edge-online.com/files/EEDAR%20DECEMBER%20HARDWARE%20FIGURES.jpg
They also estimated the top ten software, I guess because December is such a huge month:
http://www.edge-online.com/files/EEDAR%20DECEMBER%20SOFTWARE%20FIGURES.JPG
Some other tidbits from the article:

- "Nintendo’s Wii and DS software will account for over 50 percent of all games sold in December across America, saving the game industry from the “full wrath” of the recession."

- overall industry growth for the year at 14%

- they expect 145 games to sell over 100k copies in December alone

- 2009 will be a year of single-digit growth for the industry, a significant slowdown from the previous two years.

Edge Online (http://www.edge-online.com/news/analyst-nintendo-saving-market-from-recession?page=0%2C0)

Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter has similar estimates:

Wii - 3.25m
360 - 1.35m
PS3 - 750k

Software growth from Dec 07 to Dec 08:

Wii - 71%
360 - 4% (lower number partially due to new 360s coming with two games)
PS3 - 48%
PS2 - (-54%)

He also predicts that both the 360 and PS3 get a price drop by sometime between April and June, to $249 (for the Pro) and $299 respectively.

gamasutra.com (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21823)

[Mota]

Software growth from Dec 07 to Dec 08:

Wii - 71%
360 - 4% (lower number partially due to new 360s coming with two games)
PS3 - 48%
PS2 - (-54%)


This kinda pisses me off. How do they get away with counting Wii Sports as a game sale with every Wii, but if 360 gives away Lego Indiana Jones & Kung Fu Panda as part of their holiday bundle they don't count?

[Big Fo]

This kinda pisses me off. How do they get away with counting Wii Sports as a game sale with every Wii, but if 360 gives away Lego Indiana Jones & Kung Fu Panda as part of their holiday bundle they don't count?

Wii Sports is not counted as a game sale with every Wii (except in Japan where Wii Sports is not bundled), nor are any other bundled games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Software growth from Dec 07 to Dec 08:

Wii - 71%
360 - 4% (lower number partially due to new 360s coming with two games)
PS3 - 48%


I think these numbers have a lot to do with both pricing and demographics.

1. The Wii games usually have a MSRP of $40-50 on release. That's going to spur the opportunity to buy additional games no matter how you slice it.

2. I think the PS3 sales increases are better than the 360 mainly due to demographics. Anyone who is spending an extra $100-200 for the PS3 likely has the coin to buy more games, whereas much of the 360 sales are on the lower end (arcade) of the price spectrum where a parent or a child who doesn't have a large amount of funds is looking for a good next-gen alternative. Also, as Big Fo mentions, the pack-in games reduce the number of impulse purchases when buying the system.

[Butter]

Totally random 360 questions for those reading this thread..

How do I change the default profile that loads up when I start the 360?

I think you have to redo the whole thing under "Console setup".

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI......great deal on a PS3 for those that might be interested. $316 for an 80 GB machine over at Dell. Lower price should be show when added to cart.............

Dell : PlayStation PLAYSTATION 3 Gaming Console with 80 GB Hard Drive : Games : Member Purchase Program (http://slickdeals.net/?pno=17383&lno=1&afsrc=1)

[Deattribution]

FYI......great deal on a PS3 for those that might be interested. $316 for an 80 GB machine over at Dell. Lower price should be show when added to cart.............

Dell : PlayStation PLAYSTATION 3 Gaming Console with 80 GB Hard Drive : Games : Member Purchase Program (http://slickdeals.net/?pno=17383&lno=1&afsrc=1)

No mention of the 360 Arcade for $169 at Dell from the same thread? Not a bad deal when you throw in the 20 gig refurb HD for 30 bucks from MS with 3 months of Xbox Live too. It's also the HDMI model.

A couple other 360 models on sale at decent prices.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No mention of the 360 Arcade for $169 at Dell from the same thread? Not a bad deal when you throw in the 20 gig refurb HD for 30 bucks from MS with 3 months of Xbox Live too. It's also the HDMI model.

A couple other 360 models on sale at decent prices.

Honestly, the 360 deals aren't quite as good. Their price is already pretty low, so 20-30 bucks isn't going to sway many buyers to suddenly jump at it. If you can afford $169, you probably are just as likely to jump at $199. The console is already priced at a very affordable price level.

I suppose to some extent that the PS3 deal is much better BECAUSE the console is so expensive. So it's a good and bad situation. Nonetheless, $316 for one of the better BR players on the market and a gaming console is a heckuva deal. The main reason I posted it is because MLB: The Show is a console seller for sports gamers and the new release is coming up. Good opportunity for those people.

[Mustang]

That PS3 thing, is there some membership to something needed to buy???

Says something about Dell EPP Members. (?)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That PS3 thing, is there some membership to something needed to buy???

Says something about Dell EPP Members. (?)

A membership gets you a further discount above what I listed.

[Ajaxab]

FYI......great deal on a PS3 for those that might be interested. $316 for an 80 GB machine over at Dell. Lower price should be show when added to cart.............

Dell : PlayStation PLAYSTATION 3 Gaming Console with 80 GB Hard Drive : Games : Member Purchase Program (http://slickdeals.net/?pno=17383&lno=1&afsrc=1)

The link seems to now list the price as $340 after the discount.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The link seems to now list the price as $340 after the discount.

Yeah, the deal is being listed as 'price change' by several sites. Guessing the cheap deal is gone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting read. Certainly, the 2K exec is correct that there's a large percentage of 'crapware' on the Wii, but I'm not sure that he or his company should be the ones throwing stones at the glass house given the games they've released for the Wii.......

2K Boss: Wii Market Is Full Of Crap (http://kotaku.com/5131077/2k-boss-wii-market-is-full-of-crap)

[Mustang]

Certainly, the 2K exec is correct that there's a large percentage of 'crapware' on the Wii,

Hopefully they come out with E.T on the Wii.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but apparently Sony believes that anyone buying a PS3 (despite it being out for two years) is still an early adopter..........

Sony: PS3 'still in early adopter phase' - Heavy Rain for PS3 News - VideoGamer.com (http://www.videogamer.com/news/14-01-2009-10372.html)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but apparently Sony believes that anyone buying a PS3 (despite it being out for two years) is still an early adopter..........

Sony: PS3 'still in early adopter phase' - Heavy Rain for PS3 News - VideoGamer.com (http://www.videogamer.com/news/14-01-2009-10372.html)

As long as you include the disclaimer that Sony is the reason for them still being in that stage, I suppose you could pass it off as being correct.........or not.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hopefully they come out with E.T on the Wii.

Virtual Console FTW.

[Cringer]

Early adopter phase? Just call me Mr. Trendsetter, Mr. Trailblazer perhaps. I am among the highly cool. ;)

[Deattribution]

Honestly, the 360 deals aren't quite as good. Their price is already pretty low, so 20-30 bucks isn't going to sway many buyers to suddenly jump at it. If you can afford $169, you probably are just as likely to jump at $199. The console is already priced at a very affordable price level.

I suppose to some extent that the PS3 deal is much better BECAUSE the console is so expensive. So it's a good and bad situation. Nonetheless, $316 for one of the better BR players on the market and a gaming console is a heckuva deal. The main reason I posted it is because MLB: The Show is a console seller for sports gamers and the new release is coming up. Good opportunity for those people.

Did anyone else find this explanation really stupid?

Are you saying that if someone can afford $169, they should be able to afford $199, however if they can't afford $399, they should be able to afford $316?

[stevew]

Did anyone else find this explanation really stupid?

Are you saying that if someone can afford $169, they should be able to afford $199, however if they can't afford $399, they should be able to afford $316?

Nah I see what he's saying.

[SirFozzie]

The Official NPD #'s are out.

* Nintendo DS - 3,040,000
* Wii - 2,150,000
* Xbox 360 - 1,440,000
* PSP - 1,020,000
* PlayStation 3 - 726,000
* PlayStation 2 - 410,000


Npd Group: Nintendo Breaks More Sales Records, Sells Over 5 Million Consoles In December (http://kotaku.com/5132536/nintendo-breaks-more-sales-records-sells-over-5-million-consoles-in-december)