The OFFICIAL 2009 NFL Offseason Thread - What else comes in 3's? Firing OC's!

[DeToxRox]

Because when you're a Lions fan, it's always the offseason.

But really, with all the draft news and coaching positions being discussed, it all has to do with the off season.

First real note of interest:

REPORT: PATS TO FRANCHISE CASSEL
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 10:47 a.m.

With New England quarterback Matt Cassel set to become a free agent — and with two key current members of the organization, offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli, possibly heading to new teams — the Patriots are prepared to slap the franchise tag on Cassel.

Former NFL exec Mike Lombardi said on the most recent edition of Showtime’s Inside the NFL that the move will be made.

“The Patriots are way too smart, and I’ve talked to people in the organization,” said Lombardi, via the Providence Journal. “They are going to franchise Matt Cassel. He’s an asset, and they can control their ability to trade him if they franchise him.”

Though the move will result in the quarterback position commanding upwards of $26 million in cap space for 2009, it’s the right decision, regardless of whether it’s a hedge against Tom Brady not being healthy or it’s a strategy for getting something of value in exchange for Cassel.

The franchise tender for Cassel will be based upon the average of the five highest-paid quarterbacks in the league. It’s expected that the number will be in the range of $12 million.

The amount becomes fully guaranteed if Cassel signs the tender.

Though the move might be nothing more than an effort to ensure that the Patriots will receive significant compensation by trading Cassel, we still wouldn’t be surprised if Cassel and the Pats work out a relatively short-term deal, perhaps only two or three years in duration, aimed at keeping him around until it’s clear that Brady is back to 100 percent — and giving Cassel a crack at becoming the Steve Young to Brady’s Joe Montana.


And to add:FRANCHISE TENDER WILL TRIGGER $14.4 MILLION PAYDAY FOR CASSEL
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 11:52 a.m.

A reader has forwarded to us the 2008 cap numbers for the five highest-paid quarterbacks, and we’ve confirmed via a league source that the numbers are indeed accurate.

Here they are: (1) Peyton Manning, $18,704,320; (2) $14,621,320; (3) Carson Palmer, $13,980,001; (4) Eli Manning, $12,916,666; and (5) Brett Favre, $12,000,000.

It works out to an average of $14,444,461.40 — and that’s the amount of the one-year tender that the Patriots would have to extend to quarterback Matt Cassel if/when the franchise tag is applied to him.

Given that Brady’s cap number in 2009 will be $14,626,000, franchising Cassel will tie up more than $29 million in cap space in only two players.

[DaddyTorgo]

Absolutely the right move. Can't not do it.

[Logan]

And stupid for Cassell to accept a 2 or 3 year deal unless he's getting a ton of money.

[DeToxRox]

Cassel gets 14 mil now, and to be a FA in an uncapped year.

Not a bad gig at all.

[stevew]

I think he will need 6 years of experience to hit FA if this Uncapped year comes to fruition.

[larrymcg421]

Okay Dolphins.

So Ginn is getting better and Bess is a nice surprise, but let's get a real quality WR. Thanks.

[RainMaker]

The Franchise tag also makes me think that Brady is not going to be ready for the start of 2009. While I understand he's a nice asset, it's still a ridiculous amount of money to pay for the QB position in one year. This Patriot team is aging in a lot of areas and needs to fill a few holes. $14 million seems ridiculous if he's going to be a backup QB considering that money would get you 2-3 good players at other positions.

[stevew]

I'm sure they can restructure enough guys to make this work. Hell welker's had 200 plus catches over the last 2 years makng about 3 million per, so they are very good at saving money in other spots.

I would exclusive tag cassell actually, since if you have any concerns about Brady for 2009 you can't go into the year without a good QB who you know can perform well in your system.

And its possible after Favre gets cut that the tender won't be much higher than the 14 million it is now. I don't know what number 6 on the QB list would be tho.

[terpkristin]

Dunno if it's been posted yet, didn't see it but admittedly didn't do the most thorough search. Found this through George R.R. Martin's "Not A Blog" LiveJournal. As some may know, GRRM lives and dies with the Jets and the Giants. I say this almost literally, as I'm sure his real job (being an author) has suffered, as when they lose or do well, he's too feisty to write (and I'm admittedly bitter and waiting for the next book in his A Song of Ice and Fire series). Anyway, the NYT has an Op-Ed piece that says that the Jets are cursed. Go see it for yourself (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/opinion/03herbert.html?_r=1&ref=opinion). I guess I have to have a little pity for Jets fans. ;)

/tk

[Suburban Rhythm]

Mort reported on the ESPN pregame that the Pats would be franchising Cassell, and it's both that there are questions that Brady will be ready, as well as getting the best value (compensatory) for Cassell if Brady is ready and Cassell is moved.

Of course, in the next sentence, he talked about where they'd be able to fit both under the cap, and I swear he said the cap is going up "$93 million next season". WTF

Everything I've found online says about $123M next season, up from $116M this season.

[miami_fan]

Mort reported on the ESPN pregame that the Pats would be franchising Cassell, and it's both that there are questions that Brady will be ready, as well as getting the best value (compensatory) for Cassell if Brady is ready and Cassell is moved.

Of course, in the next sentence, he talked about where they'd be able to fit both under the cap, and I swear he said the cap is going up "$93 million next season". WTF

Everything I've found online says about $123M next season, up from $116M this season.

I thought he say that is was going up FROM $93 million to about $123 million.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I thought he say that is was going up FROM $93 million to about $123 million.

That would make sense, but I am 100% sure it was well above $93M this year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

dola

found this - ESPN - Sources: New England Patriots to put franchise tag on Matt Cassel (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3809444)


That would mean the Patriots would have about $29 million in salary cap space tied up in two quarterbacks, with Brady earning almost $15 million and Cassel guaranteed over $14 million.
However, the cap jumps to $123 million per team, which gives the Patriots $94 million to manage the rest of their roster.


Maybe that is the $93M (or $94 per the article) he was referencing. Sure seemed like the way Mort worded it, they would have an additional increase of $93.

[DaddyTorgo]

There is ZERO chance the Pats will not franchise Cassel, so it's a non-story as far as I'm concerned. Any other news? Let the Tony Dungy speculation begin!

[BishopMVP]

The Franchise tag also makes me think that Brady is not going to be ready for the start of 2009. While I understand he's a nice asset, it's still a ridiculous amount of money to pay for the QB position in one year. This Patriot team is aging in a lot of areas and needs to fill a few holes. $14 million seems ridiculous if he's going to be a backup QB considering that money would get you 2-3 good players at other positions.Franchising Cassell has nothing to do with Brady's health. If they haven't traded him by the draft/minicamps/training camp, then you can start reading into it what you want, but at this point even if Tom Brady were 100% healthy they would still tag Cassell because the return from a trade is greater than the worth of $14m in cap space (of which none is immediately guaranteed).

That said, what do people think the trade value is? I'm thinking since most of the teams that would want Cassell the most are drafting top 5/10, something like a 3 this year and next year's #1 would fit the Patriots style.

[Logan]

Generally the thought is that a future pick is worth a pick one round lower in the preceding year, so that would be like getting a 2nd and a 3rd which wouldn't be enough for me if I was NE.

I know there's people out there who don't think Detroit should go QB with the #1 overall. Do they have enough interest in Cassell to part with their second 1st rounder?

[JPhillips]

Given the uncertainty around Brady I don't see how they can trade him before this year's draft.

[Bad-example]

Singletary is interviewing OC candidates and it looks like Linehan, Chudinski (from Cleveland) and Dennison (from Denver) are the leading candidates. No idea which would be the right choice.

[Galaxy]

With Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow coming back to college, will it make the value of quarterbacks higher this off-season?

[Logan]

Pretty sure Bradford is the only one who would've went in the 1st. The other two were projected anywhere from the 3rd to the 5th I believe, so to answer your question, I don't think very much.

[albionmoonlight]

If I were Cassell, I'd sign the tender. $14 million is a lot of money to leave un-guaranteed.

[gstelmack]

Peppers wants out of Carolina:

Julius Peppers won't sign long-term deal with Panthers - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/01/17/peppers.panthers.ap/index.html)

Wonder who'll give up at least a first-round pick for him this year? Carolina kind of has to trade him now and get something decent in return, right? Especially without a first-round pick in this draft.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Multiple media sources are indicating that Matt Cassel will be traded to the Chiefs for a second round draft pick.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

... and those media sources are?

Have the Patriots even franchised him yet? Is "multiple media sources reporting that Cassel makes sense for the Chiefs, and pick #34 would probably be included" more accurate?

[Logan]

How about "multiple media sources [who have been] reporting [for months] that Cassel makes sense for [wherever Pioli ended up, which is now] the Chiefs, and pick #34 would probably be included"?

[Logan]

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/other_nfl/view/2009_02_02_Matt_Cassel_draws_interest/srvc=sports&position=also)speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/other_nfl/view/2009_02_02_Matt_Cassel_draws_interest/srvc=sports&position=also)speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

ESPN Insider is giving similar information. There was also a KC TV sports reporter giving the same offer and he said the Chiefs and Patriots were already talking (but that was on Monday so negotiations may be close to done). The asking price had been a 1st rounder. I'm guessing they're willing to take KC's 2nd rounder since it's near the top of that round. Obviously, KC's not going to part with the #3 pick, so the 2nd rounder would likely be the only option.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

ESPN Insider is quoting only the Herald article.

It's just the Herald article, whose only source is a guy saying "I’d really look at Pioli down there in Kansas City. Why wouldn’t he want him?"

Like I said first, Cassel isn't even franchised yet. But let's get the ball rolling on discussion - would it take more than #34? How much better is Cassel than Thigpen?

Edit: In a fantasy football kind of way, I would love Cassel + 5th for Gonzalez + 2nd

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Like I said first, Cassel isn't even franchised yet. But let's get the ball rolling on discussion - would it take more than #34? How much better is Cassel than Thigpen?

He's a LOT better than Thigpen, but that's not saying much. Tyler played hard for us all year long, but he's not the solution. The rumor mill locally is that Pioli probably won't retain any of the current QB's. He's going to clean that position out and start fresh.

I don't think it will take any more than a low 1st/early 2nd round pick. The Patriots are in a big cap mess and really need to unload someone to make room. If they don't unload one of their big contracts, they'll be left with $58M to sign the other 46 players. That's not much.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Right now the Pats are about 20M under their adjusted cap with 49 players signed.

http://www.patscap.com/

[gstelmack]

The Patriots also have a lot of guys whose contracts are up this year, so don't be surprised to see renegs that give some cap relief it they think its needed (although my guess is he gets franchised and traded before they have to worry about signing draft picks, etc). And if they need to keep him, they'll be fine.

[sterlingice]

So MBBF are your "multiple sources" really a guy from Sirius NFL radio (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/other_nfl/view/2009_02_02_Matt_Cassel_draws_interest/srvc=sports&position=also)speculating on Cassel ending up there, and thinking a 2nd rounder is the right price?

As an aside, notice that it's becoming trendy for "multiple sources" or "unconfirmed sources" to now be Sirius or XM?

SI

[JPhillips]

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would think a veteran QB (Garcia?) would have to be brought in to be the backup.

[sterlingice]

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.

If I'm the Pats, this is really easy. I tag Cassell and then only trade him once I'm sure Brady is ready. If training camp rolls around and Brady is ok, there will still be a market for Cassell and what you have lost is access to the 2009 draft instead of the 2010.

I'm sure we'll see the nonsense angle about "but you have $30M tied up in QBs". However, if you have a gimpy QB at $15M on the sidelines who cannot play, then you have nothing. Brady is a sunk cost.

SI

[Thomkal]

*sigh* I've been thinking it was pretty much inevitable since Pioli became the Chiefs GM, that Cassel would end up there. Makes sense really because as much as I love my guy Thigpen, I'm not sure he has what it takes to be a regular starter in the NFL. Cassel makes a lot of sense for KC, but I would think the Patriots have to have some insurance if Brady can't come back right away, and wouldn't trade Caseel till closer to next season.

[RendeR]

Little does anyone know that Donavon McNabb is being traded to the Pats, Cassell is going to the Chiefs and Brady will only return to the pats if he shows up 110% ready to play come camp time. if not he will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

[Draft Dodger]

I would think a veteran QB (Garcia?) would have to be brought in to be the backup.

I've been thinking the same thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The squeaky wheel is back in KC. Larry Johnson shot off at the mouth this morning on 610 AM radio. He said he wanted to be released or traded. Said he'd like to go to Dallas or an east coast team.

They can't get rid of this guy soon enough. It's a damn shame that Peterson didn't trade him away two years ago when we were being offered multiple picks including a first rounder for this guy.

[JeeberD]

He said he wanted to be released or traded. Said he'd like to go to Dallas or an east coast team.


Thank god we've already got a glut at RB...

[gstelmack]

He'll come to New England, be a model citizen, and have a 1600 yard / 12 TD season...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

He'll come to New England, be a model citizen, and have a 1600 yard / 12 TD season...

I'm not sure the phrase 'needs a change of scenery' was ever more appropriate.

[BishopMVP]

I still don't see how the Pats can trade Cassel without knowing the status of Brady for the 2009 season. Do they really want to risk playing games with Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell at QB? But if they do decide to trade him I'd hold out of at least a first rounder.O'Connell going into next season will be a better QB than Cassell coming into this one. If we can get the #34, we'll probably try to get a 2009 pick included, maybe a 3 or more likely a conditional one.

[Passacaglia]

O'Connell going into next season will be a better QB than Cassell coming into this one. If we can get the #34, we'll probably try to get a 2009 pick included, maybe a 3 or more likely a conditional one.

Yeah, but you probably also thought Michael Bishop was better than Tom Brady!

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, but you probably also thought Michael Bishop was better than Tom Brady!I still do.

[stevew]

Cassell's best leverage is to sign the tag within an hour of receiving it. At that point the ball is in his court. He can then choose where to go.

[RainMaker]

The franchise tag just makes me believe that the Pats think that Brady won't be ready. The Patriots have some holes and I can't see them putting $15 million into a backup QB.

[Eaglesfan27]

The franchise tag just makes me believe that the Pats think that Brady won't be ready. The Patriots have some holes and I can't see them putting $15 million into a backup QB.

Me too, but it could be a move just to have leverage in trading him. Either way, good for Matt and good for USC. :)

[RainMaker]

Me too, but it could be a move just to have leverage in trading him. Either way, good for Matt and good for USC. :)
If he gets traded, does he still have to be paid the $15 million for the year? That would seem to dramatically reduce his trade value.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

No, he'll sign a new contract with his new team.

[Masked]

No, he'll sign a new contract with his new team.

But any new contract would have to have at least $15m in guaranteed money which is rather steep.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would guess that he is looking at somewhere between Matt Schaub and Aaron Rodgers money.

[RainMaker]

No, he'll sign a new contract with his new team.

If he chooses to. Why would you give up $15 in guaranteed money for 1 year. I would have no motivation to sign elsewhere. Take the cash and then sign the following year. Just seems like this gives him a ton of leverage.

[Masked]

If he chooses to. Why would you give up $15 in guaranteed money for 1 year. I would have no motivation to sign elsewhere. Take the cash and then sign the following year. Just seems like this gives him a ton of leverage.

Well, if the new deal gives significantly more guaranteed money (say $20-$25M) it provides him protection against injury or poor play (which could be due just to less talent around him outside of New England) - $15M is a floor.

[RainMaker]

Well, if the new deal gives significantly more guaranteed money (say $20-$25M) it provides him protection against injury or poor play (which could be due just to less talent around him outside of New England) - $15M is a floor.

Wouldn't you be better off sitting as a backup in New England for a year and then testing the free agent waters after? That way you already have the the $15m in guaranteed in your pocket for an injury free year as a backup. Your demand is still high and you can cash in on the $25-$30 million in guaranteed money that quarterbacks like him seem to be getting.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I'm Cassell, I don't even negotiate with the current year. I just say "I'm getting $15 million no matter what and that has nothing to do with my extension". Then I work out a deal for what guys like Rodgers have gotten. That would then mean a team would have to invest $25-$30m in guaranteed for an extension on top of the $15m owed to him for the current year.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

How much is the ability to be a starter worth to him? It's a little cynical to think he'd have to favor the cash grab if he's getting paid well and starting elsewhere.

[molson]

I don't think the Pats are going to have a $15 million backup on the roster.

My guess is that they know Brady will be back, but are creating some mystery for the purpose of trade leverage.

Sure, you can't be 100% sure Brady will be back to his old form, but no team can be 100% sure of their QB. That doesn't mean you pay a backup $15 million.

[JPhillips]

I don't think he'll be on the roster as a 15 mil backup, but I don't think they can make that decision until they've seen Brady at close to full practice. Trading him before the 2009 draft is very risky.

[Draft Dodger]

The franchise tag just makes me believe that the Pats think that Brady won't be ready. The Patriots have some holes and I can't see them putting $15 million into a backup QB.

the buzz on sports radio around here today is that Brady is throwing, running and is in good shape on the rehab

[stevew]

I'm wondering what the rules for next offseason will be. If the Pats can just put a restricted tag on him he doesn't have the leverage I think he does. He will have less than the 6 years required to be a FA. If the tender that year is only like 3M, then signing the tag this year is dumb.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Todd Haley has accepted the head coach spot in KC. Announcement won't be made until contract details are ironed out.

Chiefs hire Haley as head coach - Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1020332.html)

[Samdari]

I'm wondering what the rules for next offseason will be. If the Pats can just put a restricted tag on him he doesn't have the leverage I think he does. He will have less than the 6 years required to be a FA. If the tender that year is only like 3M, then signing the tag this year is dumb.

The 'uncapped year' was put in, supposedly as a poision pill for the owners. There are so many restrictions though, it will not be the bonanza for the players that many think it will be.

If he signs the franchise tender and stays with the Pats next year, and 2010 is uncapped, Cassell's choices will be the same as players' options prior to FA - take whatever the Pats offer, or hold out. Cassell would be in the interesting position of making 15 mil in 2009, and the vet minimum in 2010. He would not be tagged that year - there is no reason to use one on a player who is not eligible for FA.

[stevew]

Yes but as far as I understand he would be part of the rfa process. I'm not sure whether his RFA tender would be something like the 3m first and third tender or if it would be 120 percent or thereabouts of his 2009 number

Regardless I doubt it can be the vet min and totally restrict his movement. I will be shocked if we see an uncapped year anyways.

[miami_fan]

The blackout rules extend to the Pro Bowl too? Really?

NFL grants Hawaii a second local TV blackout extension for Pro Bowl - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3890043)

HONOLULU -- The NFL has granted Hawaii a second TV blackout extension for the Pro Bowl.

The league said Friday that Sunday's all-star game at Aloha Stadium must be sold out by 11:30 a.m. Saturday -- 24 hours before kickoff -- or the contest won't be televised in the state.

The original 72-hour deadline came and went Thursday, with the league granting a one-day extension. It passed Friday morning with about 1,500 tickets still available, about half the number that remained Thursday.

The Pro Bowl has sold out, usually weeks in advance, every year since moving to the 50,000-seat Aloha Stadium in 1980. The 1982 game was blacked out locally, although it was sold out by kickoff.

[stevew]

Did the chiefs interview a minority?

[DeToxRox]

some franchise tags handed down:

Giants franchise Jacobs
Cards franchise Dansby
Ravens franchise Suggs
Bengals franchise Graham
Chargers franchise Sproles
Rams franchsie Atogwe

Peppers and Asomugah are going to be probably be franchised. Looking like Bucs will franchise Antonio Bryant also.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, Marvin Harrison to be cut.

[Travis]

Wow, that seems silly for Sproles. I know his stock has gone through the roof but I still can't imagine he'd last as a full time #1, let alone being worth the tag price if he's going to be a 3rd down/insurance back.

[RendeR]

Wait, the Bengals put the franchise tag on...the KICKER?

Graham is good but he aint THAT good.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wait, the Bengals put the franchise tag on...the KICKER?

Graham is good but he aint THAT good.

I don't see a problem with it. I mean, is there another impending free agent on the Bengals more worthy of the franchise tag? It probably makes sense financially.

The Lions were considering it with Hanson and would have if they hadn't reached a deal.

[Thomkal]

Not surprised at all that my beloved Cards franchised Dansby. They couldn't afford to let him get away considering their lack of depth at the LB spot. I think the Chargers franchising Sproles probably means the end of Tomlinson there.

[Neuqua]

Thomkal, do you always refer to them as "my beloved Cards?" Just something I've noticed, not hating.

:)

[Thomkal]

Thomkal, do you always refer to them as "my beloved Cards?" Just something I've noticed, not hating.

:)

Yep, I do. At least now I really have a reason to love them. ;)

[DeToxRox]

Seahawks franchsied Leroy Hill
Texans franchised Dunta Robinson

[DeToxRox]

And more ..

Panthers franchise Peppers
Titans are going to franchsie Scaife

Panthers also make Jordan Gross the highest paid OT in the NFL, garauntee him 30.5 mil over the next 3 years of a 6 year, 60 million dollar deal.

Aso is also about to finalize a new deal giving him 26 mil garaunteed over the next 2 years.

[DeToxRox]

And Stevew is happy ..

Steelers franchise Max Starks

[Suburban Rhythm]

Aso is also about to finalize a new deal giving him 26 mil garaunteed over the next 2 years.

Seeing $45.3M over 3. I wonder if it includes a massive roster bonus in the 2nd year, 2010, which would be the famous uncapped year.

And weird wording at ESPN-


Sources said Asomugha is guaranteed $28.5 million in a complicated deal that features a provision in which the entire contract can be guaranteed if the Raiders decide to keep the 27-year-old for the third season.


If he's kept for all 3 seasons of the deal, wouldn't it in essence already be "guaranteed"?

And Stevew is happy ..

Steelers franchise Max Starks

Had to do something, they only had Willie Colon returning...which is a nice way of saying we had no tackles.

[Danny]

Wow, for once the Raiders are actually having a great off-season.

We locked up the leagues best man-to-man corner, punter and a pretty good #2 corner in Chris Johnson. I'm very surprised, but it's great to give some money to our best players and not throw it at other team's crappy free agents. All these players were here last year, so this doesn't make them a playoff team, but it helps establish some belief in the players that things are turning around. It says a lot that the league's #1 corner and punter chose to sign those deals with the team when they could have gotten at least that on the open market.

I also think the players had to be happy to have coach Cable back. We'll see more about how good of a coach he is this year, but his positive attitude and motivational style has clearly gained the respect of the players. I'm sure Also would not have resigned otherwise as he clearly wanted out of Oakland during last season, especially when Kiffin was here..

I had pretty much given up on the Raiders being a good team the past few years, but I have hint of optimism right now that things could be turning around. Again, we'll see how this translates to on the field, but the culture of the team appears to be changing. Hopefully the team continues this by having a solid draft and signing some under the radar value free agents.

[Danny]

And weird wording at ESPN-


If he's kept for all 3 seasons of the deal, wouldn't it in essence already be "guaranteed"?



I think this is just ESPN saying something stupid. Of course if a player plays out all the years of a contact everything is guaranteed.

[SackAttack]

If he's kept for all 3 seasons of the deal, wouldn't it in essence already be "guaranteed"?I think this is just ESPN saying something stupid. Of course if a player plays out all the years of a contact everything is guaranteed.

Six year deal. If he's kept for the first three seasons, the final three become guaranteed.

[Danny]

Six year deal. If he's kept for the first three seasons, the final three become guaranteed.

It's not though, that was the rumor originally. It's a 3 year deal only.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm not sure that this has been officially passed to the media yet, but Mizzou defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus is going to be hired as the new defensive coordinator for the Cleveland Browns.

[JPhillips]

The Mizzou defensive coordinator gets a promotion?

[stevew]

I thought Rob Ryan was the defensive coordinator for the Browns.


And as for Starks, there were no other options. They have enough cap space so I would have been angry if they didn't do anything with him.

[Butter]

The Mizzou defensive coordinator gets a promotion?

Yeah, what's up with that... I wonder if it was the Kansas or Oklahoma games from last year that convinced the Browns to give him a shot?

[Danny]

Yeah, what's up with that... I wonder if it was the Kansas or Oklahoma games from last year that convinced the Browns to give him a shot?

As was just said, the Browns have a DC, maybe he getting a spot as a position coach.

[Pyser]

Wow, for once the Raiders are actually having a great off-season.

uhh, i havent seen it, but ok.

$16m for a punter?

i mean, they gave that dt turned de who had no sacks $50m last year, so just re-signed your own players doesnt mean anything.

but good luck!

[Logan]

If we're really progressing to talking about position coaches...Rutgers Offensive Coordinator John McNulty is now the Cardinals WR coach, while our RB coach Gary Brown is taking the same role with the aforementioned Browns.

[Danny]

uhh, i havent seen it, but ok.

$16m for a punter?

i mean, they gave that dt turned de who had no sacks $50m last year, so just re-signed your own players doesnt mean anything.

but good luck!

I explained why this has been a great off season so far with the rest of my post. And their off season last year was bad, but I didn't say anything about that.

[Travis]

I explained why this has been a great off season so far with the rest of my post. And their off season last year was bad, but I didn't say anything about that.

Not trying to pile on, but I honestly (maybe for the first time) feel bad for Raider fans due to them hiring John Marshall to be their DC. I hope for your sake that he improves his play calling dramatically from the last few years. It was a happy, happy day for Seahawk fans when he was shown the door after how brutally he misused the talent at his disposal last year.

That said, can't say I personally agree with how much money they threw at Asomugha (something like $6 million more than the franchise tag would have paid him and nearly $3 million more per year than the next highest paid CB) but hopefully he can keep his level of play where it was last year. That kind of money for a punter is just insane though.

[Danny]

Not trying to pile on, but I honestly (maybe for the first time) feel bad for Raider fans due to them hiring John Marshall to be their DC. I hope for your sake that he improves his play calling dramatically from the last few years. It was a happy, happy day for Seahawk fans when he was shown the door after how brutally he misused the talent at his disposal last year.

That said, can't say I personally agree with how much money they threw at Asomugha (something like $6 million more than the franchise tag would have paid him and nearly $3 million more per year than the next highest paid CB) but hopefully he can keep his level of play where it was last year. That kind of money for a punter is just insane though.

Raiders fans felt the same way about Rob Ryan and Cleveland is happy to have him. I thought the DC hire was decent, he had some good years with Seattle before falling apart the last year or two. Hopefully he will do better here.

Franchising Aso would have cost about 3 mil less over the contract, but I'm glad they didn't. You don't need that kind of unhappiness from your best player. It showed me a lot that they payed someone who deserved it even if it is a couple million too much per season. And on the open market, I'm sure someone would have payed just as much. Take a look at his numbers, he had one of the best seasons for a CB ever last year.

As for Lecher, he's been the Raiders best player over the past several years. It's a lot for a punter, but it's worth it to show the team that if your perform you will get paid. Like I said, it's about changing the culture and mindset of the team. That doesn't necessarily equal wins, but it at least gives some hope.

The one thing Davis has always done well is finagle with the cap. I'm not worried about a couple million too much here and there. He locked up the Raiders only two pro bowl players and that's good. It needs to be accompanied by better coaching and the development of young players, but after the last 6 years it is at least a good sign.

[JetsIn06]

RoarReport.com has learned that the Detroit Lions may have dealt veteran quarterback Jon Kitna to the New York Jets in exchange for a late-round draft choice.

Interesting. I happen to like this move as long as it's for a 6th or 7th rounder.

[Logan]

Good move, if it keeps them away from going after someone like Leftwich while giving Ratliff/Clemens a shot. Ratliff looked good in those preseason games, and the last I read from Ryan said the org was split about who would probably end up being the starter.

[Atocep]

Crabtree has a stress fracture in his leg and won't be able to run before the draft. He's also measured about 2 inches shorter than he was listed by Tech. Speed was the big question for him so it'll be interesting to see if he slips out of the top 5 because of this.

Also, either Andre Smith has the worst agent in all of sports or he's just completely ignoring all advice. His time at the combine has been a disaster according to what I've read and CNNSI has reported a few teams are just taking him off their board altogether.

In other news, USC's kicker did 25 reps and ran a 4.54....


EDIT: right after I post this ESPN reports Crabtree is going to put off surgery so he can run the 40 so it must be a pretty big deal as far as his draft position goes.

[JetsIn06]

Good move, if it keeps them away from going after someone like Leftwich while giving Ratliff/Clemens a shot. Ratliff looked good in those preseason games, and the last I read from Ryan said the org was split about who would probably end up being the starter.

Eh, just found out it wasn't true (The Lions denied it....guess there is a chance it still might happen). Kind of bummed. I'm a big fan of Ratliff, but would have loved Kitna to be a backup.

[JPhillips]

Crabtree seems a lot like Peter Warrick to me, a productive receiver, but never sniffing a Pro Bowl.

[Danny]

Crabtree seems a lot like Peter Warrick to me, a productive receiver, but never sniffing a Pro Bowl.

I have some concerns about him as well, but I think he'll be much better than Warrick.

[Eaglesfan27]

In other news, USC's kicker did 25 reps and ran a 4.54....


I read that and wasn't surprised. David Buehler is very athletic. That being said, I think some USC fans who are saying he could be a backup safety as well as kicker for an NFL team are crazy.

[Radii]

In the studio:


ESPN has decided after two seasons that former Dallas Cowboys great Emmitt Smith doesn’t cut it as an NFL analyst.

Spokesmen for the network said his contract, which expired this month, would not be renewed.


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[RPI-Fan]

Good to hear. I don't think I ever heard him offer any statement with even a hint of insight.

[Atocep]

Pat White had one hell of a day throwing the ball. Everyone from the NFL network said he threw the ball better than any other QB today and possibly moved up into the 2nd round now.

[TurnerONU22]

Derrick Brooks and Warrick Dunn released by Tampa Bay

Tampa Bay Buccaneers to release Derrick Brooks, four other veteran players - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3933807)

Maybe they can work on a singing career together? :)

[DataKing]

Derrick Brooks and Warrick Dunn released by Tampa Bay

Tampa Bay Buccaneers to release Derrick Brooks, four other veteran players - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3933807)

Maybe they can work on a singing career together? :)

I just saw the headline on ESPN.com and thought the same thing. :D

[Poli]

My boot camp division had both a Brooks and a Dunn. Our recruit commanders made them bunkmates and do pushups while singing B&D songs.

[Lathum]

My boot camp division had both a Brooks and a Dunn. Our recruit commanders made them bunkmates and do pushups while singing B&D songs.

thats awesome.

[DeToxRox]

DeAngelo Hall resigns with Washington:



As the clock struck midnight, CB DeAngelo Hall struck it rich.

Hall reached an agreement with the Redskins on a six-year, $54 million deal that includes $22.5 million guaranteed and $30 million in the first three seasons.

Agents Alvin Keels and Joel Segal spent recent weeks negotiating with the Redskins and put the finishing touches on the deal as free agency kicked off.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Haley and Pioli aren't going to dance with the veterans looking to whine. I like how Brian Waters flew into town to find out 'the direction of the team' and then pretends like he didn't have any alterior motives. You don't ask about the direction of the team unless you're considering exiting stage right. It's going to take a year or two to de-Herm this organization..........

Chiefs’ All-Pro guard Waters wants out of Kansas City - Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/1057650.html)

My favorite part of the article........

And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said.

I like this coach already.

[Samdari]

It may take awhile to De-Herm the organization, although I actually liked what they did going young last season.

I don't see what Waters has to do with Herm though? He was there before that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It may take awhile to De-Herm the organization, although I actually liked what they did going young last season.

I don't see what Waters has to do with Herm though? He was there before that.

Herm treated the players with kid gloves. Vets would throw a tantrum and Herm would just smile.

Obviously, there's going to be some vets who are going to react adversely to Haley's demeanor. There's going to be an adjustment period that will likely be pretty bumpy.

[Lathum]

ugh, Fred Taylor to the Pats

[gstelmack]

ugh, Fred Taylor to the Pats

Nice veteran presence, and he won't need to be an everydown back so should reduce the wear & tear.

I'm wondering if TJ Houshmenwhatever will sign with the Pats. We need a receiver, and he's never been nearly the flamboyant type that Ocho Cinco was. He'd be nice starting on the other side of the field from Moss.

[JPhillips]

Nice veteran presence, and he won't need to be an everydown back so should reduce the wear & tear.

I'm wondering if TJ Houshmenwhatever will sign with the Pats. We need a receiver, and he's never been nearly the flamboyant type that Ocho Cinco was. He'd be nice starting on the other side of the field from Moss.

Isn't Welker almost identical to TJ?

[stevew]

Haynesworth puts together a 100 over 7 pact with the skins. The Redskina never cease to amaze me.

[Dr. Sak]

I've heard that the Eagles have signed Stacey Andrews...but haven't found a link to confirm it.

[Galaxy]

Where do the Redskins keep getting this money and space every year?

[Bad-example]

Where do the Redskins keep getting this money and space every year?

Satan.

He has a bad rep but he gets shit done.

[JPhillips]

I've heard that the Eagles have signed Stacey Andrews...but haven't found a link to confirm it.

I've seen it too. I've also read that the deal is pending a physical, but how does a guy with a blown ACL pass a physical?

[DeToxRox]

Kellen Winslow traded to the Bucs for picks

[JetsIn06]

Jets sign Ravens LB Bart Scott.

Woo!

Edit: Many sources are saying it's a done deal, but I guess it's not 100% official yet.

[JPhillips]

Kellen Winslow traded to the Bucs for picks

Bucs then release Winslow.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Pats are hosting Bodden today. Man, it would be great to sign him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Pats are hosting Bodden today. Man, it would be great to sign him.

He stinks.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The again, compared to the other corner backs that are available, he may not be so bad.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Our CBs stink. He most definitely is an upgrade, and one that I would hope not to have to break the bank for.

[DeToxRox]

Baltimore continues to be one of the busiest teams on the first day of free agency. The Ravens signed cornerback Domonique Foxworth to a four-year, $28 million deal that includes $16.5 million guaranteed.

[DeToxRox]

Sounds like Nate Washington is going to sign with the Lions. I like him as a #2 in this situation because he has some talent, and is going to play opposite the biggest beast in the NFL.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Mike Vrabel off to KC for a draft pick.

Probably best for both teams, but I'll miss him.

[stevew]

Sounds like Nate Washington is going to sign with the Lions. I like him as a #2 in this situation because he has some talent, and is going to play opposite the biggest beast in the NFL.

His hands aren't the greatest but I will miss the guy. Should be a good number 2.

[stevew]

Also PFT has been down all day. Glad to see the Steelers are keeping Kemo. 5/20 seems reasonable.

[Butter]

Nate Washington is going to be the Lions #2 WR? Sounds like they need to draft a WR. Or 2.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Also PFT has been down all day.

Yeah. I was just checking this thread to see if anyone else was having the same issue or if I had missed some web address change or something.

[DeToxRox]

Twitter / ProFootballTalk (http://twitter.com/profootballtalk)

[lordscarlet]

Shawn Springs released by the Redskins.

[molson]

Mike Vrabel off to KC for a draft pick.

Probably best for both teams, but I'll miss him.

That's kind of depressing.

I guess Bellichick thinks he's washed up. I can't imagine its anything but low pick.

[RainMaker]

I actually think the Haynesworth deal isn't that bad. A great DT can completely change the defense. It makes everyone around him better. The Bears had one of the best defenses in the league till Tommie Harris got hurt. I'm still convinced they would have won the Super Bowl a couple years ago if they had him.

[DeToxRox]

Nothing to report on the Nate Washington to Detroit front. Sounds like they were close but nothing confirmed.

Derrick Dockery is also in town. Would love to add both and find some secondary help and call it a day.

[DeToxRox]

Lions sign Seattle RB Maurice Morris to a 3 year, 7 million dollar deal.

Love the signing. Not really overpaying a proven backup. We're going to be running a lot, and Morris will complement Kevin Smith well.

[MrDNA]

Let me go on record as saying: The way Washington approaches free agency will never win them a Superbowl. Archive this shit Redskins fans. :p

[DataKing]

The Saints reached agreement with free-agent linebacker Jonathan Vilma on a five-year, $34 million contract that includes $17 million guaranteed and $23 million in the first three years.

[Balldog]

Nothing to report on the Nate Washington to Detroit front. Sounds like they were close but nothing confirmed.

Derrick Dockery is also in town. Would love to add both and find some secondary help and call it a day.

Lost Dockery to the Redskins, kind of a bummer.

[Balldog]

He stinks.

Bodden just doesn't fit the cover 2 scheme, he was a decent corner before he came to the Lions. When I was living in Ohio I had the misfortune of watching the Browns play. Now I get to watch the Lions play...:banghead:

[Honolulu_Blue]

Bodden just doesn't fit the cover 2 scheme, he was a decent corner before he came to the Lions. When I was living in Ohio I had the misfortune of watching the Browns play. Now I get to watch the Lions play...:banghead:

Well, luckily, you'll only have to watch them 8 or 9 times next season. I predict many, many blackouts.

Might I suggest you become a hockey fan and start watching the Red Wings. It helps ease the pain...

I have no hope for this organization at the moment. I think Mayhew and Lewand are a bit of a joke. Apparently, it was Mayhew who was enamoured with Culpepper and wanted him here. It was also Mayhew who pretty much declared him the starter for next season. That doesn't bode well for his decision-making. Culpepper was awful last year. He's been awful for the last few years. I have no idea what Mayhew sees in him. Orlovsky was much better than Culpepper last year.

The Lions will struggle to get anything but the bottom of the barrel free agents, unless they pay way above the player's worth. Who would want to come play here?

[sterlingice]

Lost Dockery to the Redskins, kind of a bummer.

Apparently the Redskins think that they are the NFL bailout plan ;)

SI

[tucker rocky]

DeAngelo Hall resigns with Washington:



As the clock struck midnight, CB DeAngelo Hall struck it rich.

Hall reached an agreement with the Redskins on a six-year, $54 million deal that includes $22.5 million guaranteed and $30 million in the first three seasons.

Agents Alvin Keels and Joel Segal spent recent weeks negotiating with the Redskins and put the finishing touches on the deal as free agency kicked off.

Sounds like the Redskins were finishing decorating the tree, and putting presents under it. :D

The biggest present being Hannesworth, but he has to be hidden behind the tree, like a Red Ryder BB Gun.
Daniel Snyder will probably shoot his eye out. :D

[tucker rocky]

Brian Dawkins to the Broncos.

Basically, a salary cut for the Eagles, and a player at or near the end of his career for the Broncos.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions sign WR Bryant Johnson.

They also trade Jon Kitna to the Cowboys.

[stevew]

The Haynesworth deal actually being 4/48 virtually all guaranteed sounds a lot more reasonable. I knew there was gonna be a ton of bullshit money in there, but this takes the cake.

[Danny]

The Haynesworth deal actually being 4/48 virtually all guaranteed sounds a lot more reasonable. I knew there was gonna be a ton of bullshit money in there, but this takes the cake.

At this money, it was a great signing for the Redskins.

[Julio Riddols]

Cassel to the Chiefs for a 2nd rounder... Cheap if you ask me. A favor for a friend maybe.

[Danny]

Seems like a good deal for the Chiefs, they get Cassel and Vrabel for the 34th pick. It's not bad for NE as long as Brady is at full strength. They could use that 14 million to shore up other areas.

[stevew]

At this money, it was a great signing for the Redskins.

Yeah. He aint seeing the 29M he makes during the 5th year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Brian Dawkins to the Broncos.

Basically, a salary cut for the Eagles, and a player at or near the end of his career for the Broncos.


I hate to see this. Dawkins was always one of my favorite players and I was hoping he would retire an Eagle.

[stevew]

Here's a trade I just thought of that I think makes sense. Browns trade number 5 and Braylon to the Lions for number 1 overall. Browns draft Curry who they desperately need. Lions get another playmaker at WR and can probably still get Stafford or a tackle or that DT from BC.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Apparently the Lions were trying to swing a trade to the Patriots for Matt Cassel and then they were going to turn around and trade Cassel to the Broncos for Cutler.

[mauchow]

Vikings going to get Houzmeandaszah?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

They need weapons for Rosenfels, right? Right?

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions sign WR Bryant Johnson.

They also trade Jon Kitna to the Cowboys.

In return the Lions get CB Anthony Henry from Dallas.

[sabotai]

The Giants signed (or are about to sign) DT Rocky Bernard (Seattle). I like the signing since both Cofield and Robbins seemed to run out of gas at the end of the season. Bernard, Cofield and Robbins rotating in and out (while also getting Alford in there to help him develop) should keep the Giants defensive line fresh through the entire season.

The Giants also signed LB Michael Boley (Atlanta). Apparently they plan to play him on the weakside. I like this signing, too, since I thought the outside LBs for the Giants was where they were the weakest last season.

Not the biggest names out there (Seems like Hoosyourmamma is going to visit the G-Men soon, but I doubt they have the money to make a try at him) but the Giants don't really need many pieces and they really needed some depth at LB and DT.

[Swaggs]

Apparently the Lions were trying to swing a trade to the Patriots for Matt Cassel and then they were going to turn around and trade Cassel to the Broncos for Cutler.

Has Cutler fallen out of favor or did McDaniel just want one of his guys there?

Sounds like it would have been a pretty risky move from the Broncos' point of view.

[stevew]

It is getting stupid how we have the same conversations going on in multiple threads.

Merger time.

Especially if you're me and like looking back at old threads 3 or 4 years later.

And it's about time for that 5 years later draft thread. That's always one of my faves.

[Danny]

It is getting stupid how we have the same conversations going on in multiple threads.

Merger time.

Especially if you're me and like looking back at old threads 3 or 4 years later.

And it's about time for that 5 years later draft thread. That's always one of my faves.

Yeah, I much prefer it when all of the signings and posts are just kept to one thread.

[Danny]

I think both the Boley and Bernard are really good ones for the Giants. They may not be stars, but they add to an an already really good defense.

[Doug5984]

Saints Resigned Vilma & Stinchcomb, its great to get both of these players locked up.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Didn't see in here yet-

Lito Sheppard to the Jets for a 5th and conditional.

NFL Network said something about him falling to 5th on the depth chart. Has he fallen THAT far? I get Samuel and Brown. But Joselio Hanson and whoever else is on the roster?

[Logan]

Sheppard was supposedly almost gone for a late 1st/early 2nd last year.

[tucker rocky]

I hate to see this. Dawkins was always one of my favorite players and I was hoping he would retire an Eagle.

A popular player leaving to sign with another team is disappointing.

Examples include: Taylor-Jaguars-Patriots, Harrison-Colts-unsigned,
Brooks-Tampa Bay-unsigned, and a few others. These 3 though were the most popular with the team, and figured to retire with their original team.

As the saying goes in the NFL(not-for-long), and it's a business.

When one goes, another younger player comes along to replace him in the popularity department.

[Danny]

A popular player leaving to sign with another team is disappointing.

Examples include: Taylor-Jaguars-Patriots, Harrison-Colts-unsigned,
Brooks-Tampa Bay-unsigned, and a few others. These 3 though were the most popular with the team, and figured to retire with their original team.

As the saying goes in the NFL(not-for-long), and it's a business.

When one goes, another younger player comes along to replace him in the popularity department.

Yeah, sometimes it has to do with a player who is oblivious to their declining skill level and is unwilling to take any kind of a pay cut (Harrison).

[cartman]

Sounds like the Coast Guard is searching for a missing boat that had 3 NFL players on it. They went out fishing yesterday, but didn't come back last night.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/3/1/443250.html

[Swaggs]

Kurt Warner is apparently visiting the 49ers now.

It would be pretty hard to believe that he'd leave the Cards.

[Chief Rum]

Sounds like the Coast Guard is searching for a missing boat that had 3 NFL players on it. They went out fishing yesterday, but didn't come back last night.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/3/1/443250.html

It seems like these stories hardly ever end up well. :(

I'm not the praying sort, but I am wishing fervently that they will be found okay. Others who do pray, though, are welcome to contribute.

[Dr. Sak]

I hate to see this. Dawkins was always one of my favorite players and I was hoping he would retire an Eagle.

+1

[Logan]

Kurt Warner is apparently visiting the 49ers now.

It would be pretty hard to believe that he'd leave the Cards.

Word is the organization hosted him knowing full well his agent is trying to drive up the price for Arizona.

[JS19]

Giants sign Canty from the Cowboys. Bunch of defensive moves for the GMen over the past couple days, I guess this means TJ Whosyourmamma isn't in their plans, although, I have no clue what their cap space is looking like.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Canty got PAID for a guy who never impressed me all that much as a Cowboy. I guess he's switching to DT.

[sabotai]

Giants sign Canty from the Cowboys. Bunch of defensive moves for the GMen over the past couple days, I guess this means TJ Whosyourmamma isn't in their plans, although, I have no clue what their cap space is looking like.

Surprised the Giants kept after Canty after signing Bernard. So far, they said they will use Canty a lot like how they've used Tuck in the past by moving him around the line (he'll play both DT and DE). The Giants will probably have to cut one of their DL players after signing Canty and Bernard, though.

And I've read that the Giants aren't really going after TJ, neither are the Eagles, neither are a lot of teams.

[JPhillips]

TJ is apparently down to Min, SEA and CIN with MIN in the lead.

[JS19]

I like what the Giants are doing, adding depth to an already solid defense, but WR is clearly a problem. Reese has done a phenomenal job in the draft, but I can't imagine he plans on addressing the WR issue through the draft. I'm in the "bring back Plax" boat, so maybe thats what they have planned. TJ would be a nice addition, but probably not for the $$$ he's gonna get. As far as I know, as of now they have Smith, Manningham, Moss, and Tyree, not exactly the core of receivers I would feel comfortable starting the season with, although I do like them all and they have potential. Who knows, maybe they are working on a trade (Boldin, I know, wishful thinking, although I have heard rumors of Braylon Edwards). Should be interesting to see, because Reese likes to build through the draft, so I don't see them making a big trade.

[sabotai]

As far as I know, as of now they have Smith, Manningham, Moss, and Tyree

And Dominik Hixon, who I think is going to become a really good receiver.

[Pyser]

isnt moss a f/a?

[fantom1979]

I have Manningham (and James Hardy) on my keeper team stashed away in my "rookie reserve area" (some interesting rules in my league). So I am hoping like no other that Manningham gets a chance to play this year.

[Matthean]

Word is the organization hosted him knowing full well his agent is trying to drive up the price for Arizona.

And he would be crazy to leave a team that has as good of a pair of wideouts in the league for a team that pretty much has nobody to throw too.

Random thought that just came to me that I doubt I would actually pull is what if the Lions actually had the money to bring in Harrison. He becomes a #2 guy and can help mentor Johnson. Even if he's just there for a couple of years, he helps fill a role for now and can give the Lions time to develop other people. Of course, there's no way in hell Harrison would want to go there...

[Logan]

And he would be crazy to leave a team that has as good of a pair of wideouts in the league for a team that pretty much has nobody to throw too.

Come on, we just gave Brandon Jones $16.5 million over 5 years!

While the guaranteed money is fairly low (I think $4.5MM), I still didn't understand the move. There is actually some talent at the position in Jason Hill and Josh Morgan who just need time to develop, along with a QB who has time to get them the ball.

[miked]

If you go in to the season with Smith, Manningham, Moss, and Tyree as your WRs, you will not be throwing the ball well. Maybe they're banking on getting Britt in the 1st or 2nd and him being the savior. :)

[gstelmack]

Peter King is reporting that the reason Cassel went to the Chiefs for a high second was that the 3-way deal never surfaced until after that trade was agreed to. Basically no one was knocking on Bill's door, so he took the best deal he had early to clear the cap room. If Denver had been talking to him on Thursday, Cassel might well be a Bronco, and Cutler a Buc right now.

[stevew]

If you go in to the season with Smith, Manningham, Moss, and Tyree as your WRs, you will not be throwing the ball well. Maybe they're banking on getting Britt in the 1st or 2nd and him being the savior. :)

There's not even a legit 2 in that group. I like Smith but when he's clearly the best of the bunch your team has to be playing with house rules or something.

[Danny]

If you go in to the season with Smith, Manningham, Moss, and Tyree as your WRs, you will not be throwing the ball well. Maybe they're banking on getting Britt in the 1st or 2nd and him being the savior. :)

Looks about the quality of the Raiders WR corps.

[Danny]

More bad Broncos news. Now not only do they have to deal with their unhappy quarterback, but Brandon Marshall was arrested again for disorderly conduct. It his 4th arrest and the Denver posts says a suspension up to a year and SI's peter king says he expects 8 games.

[stevew]

Looks about the quality of the Raiders WR corps.

Johnny Lee Mays might have a breakout season.

[Danny]

Johnny Lee Mays might have a breakout season.

I actually like both Johnny Lee Higgins and Chaz Schilens, but neither are a #1 receiver. As a #2 and #3 I think they would be solid.

[Draft Dodger]

Peter King is reporting that the reason Cassel went to the Chiefs for a high second was that the 3-way deal never surfaced until after that trade was agreed to. Basically no one was knocking on Bill's door, so he took the best deal he had early to clear the cap room. If Denver had been talking to him on Thursday, Cassel might well be a Bronco, and Cutler a Buc right now.

lots of chatter about the Cassel deal on sports radio here today, with all kinds of crazy theories floated about (from BB was afraid of what McDaniels and Cassel could do with the Broncoes to BB prefers 2nd rounders to 1st rounders to, my personal fave, BB is planning to follow Pioli to KC when his contract is up and is sending some of his players there in advance). The Peter King thing makes the most sense...

[cartman]

Sounds like the Coast Guard is searching for a missing boat that had 3 NFL players on it. They went out fishing yesterday, but didn't come back last night.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/3/1/443250.html

It seems like these stories hardly ever end up well. :(

I'm not the praying sort, but I am wishing fervently that they will be found okay. Others who do pray, though, are welcome to contribute.

Doesn't look good. They found the boat capsized, but only one person clinging to the boat. He's recovering from hypothermia, so they haven't been able to ask him any questions yet.

Boater found, NFL players still missing off Florida, guard says - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/02/florida.missing.boaters/index.html)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Doesn't look good. They found the boat capsized, but only one person clinging to the boat. He's recovering from hypothermia, so they haven't been able to ask him any questions yet.

I did hear that he told the rescue people that the other three guys did have life vests on, but if hypothermia was an issue, they probably would be in big trouble even with life vests on.

I saw video of the surviving guy on TV. He was hurting. They had to help him from the basket on the chopper to the gurney. Looked exhausted.

[Swaggs]

Johnny Lee Mays might have a breakout season.

I sure hope so.

I've been waiting since 2003 for it to happen.

[Travis]

Houshmandzadeh to Seattle for 5 years and $40 million (around $15 million guaranteed). Haven't seen a yearly breakdown yet, but apparently this beat Cincy's deal (5/35) and wasn't quite what I had read he was asking for (4/40). Not sure if I'm excited about this one though. Haven't seen much of him live, but looking at his numbers it looks like the last 2 years were a drop off from his first 5, so hopefully we can get at least 2-3 years of him at his current level before another drop off.

And hopefully they still nab Crabtree if he's there at #4.

[Danny]

Looks like they overpaid considering he is 32, but he is a good receiver.

Hopefully this means they pass on Crabtree with #4 and then he has a decent shot to be there for the Raiders at #7

[DeToxRox]

Don't be shocked if Crabtree goes #3 to KC.

It's looking very possible Curry goes #1 to Detroit, then Jason Smith goes #2 to STL. KC does not need a QB now, and KC took a LT last year. Crabtree makes the most sense to run the offense Haley probably wants to run. Plus, if you're going to invest all that money in Cassel, you better put weapons around him.

[Danny]

Don't be shocked if Crabtree goes #3 to KC.

It's looking very possible Curry goes #1 to Detroit, then Jason Smith goes #2 to STL. KC does not need a QB now, and KC took a LT last year. Crabtree makes the most sense to run the offense Haley probably wants to run. Plus, if you're going to invest all that money in Cassel, you better put weapons around him.

I'm hoping for one of Crabtree, Raji, Monroe or J Smith at this point.

[DeToxRox]

I'm hoping for one of Crabtree, Raji, Monroe or J Smith at this point.

Raiders will have a shot at Monroe. I am doubtful Raji is there. I honestly expect Davis to take Bey or Maclin, but I have read they love Harvin.

If they take Harvin, well, I feel bad for you.

[Danny]

Raiders will have a shot at Monroe. I am doubtful Raji is there. I honestly expect Davis to take Bey or Maclin, but I have read they love Harvin.

If they take Harvin, well, I feel bad for you.

That was a Raiders blogger who suggested the Raiders could take Harvin. he doesn't appear to have any inside info. At least I hope not as I would not be happy with that pick.

I like Maclin and DHB fine, and wouldn't be too upset about picking either of those. It is a bit early for DHB though and would prefer the Raiders trade back if that is who they want. Unfortunately that's something they never do.

[DeToxRox]

That was a Raiders blogger who suggested the Raiders could take Harvin. he doesn't appear to have any inside info. At least I hope not as I would not be happy with that pick.

I like Maclin and DHB fine, and wouldn't be too upset about picking either of those. It is a bit early for DHB though and would prefer the Raiders trade back if that is who they want. Unfortunately that's something they never do.

DHB is a solid, solid player. A stretch at 7, but Al loves those sick athletes, and no doubt DHB is one.

[JPhillips]

Houshmandzadeh to Seattle for 5 years and $40 million (around $15 million guaranteed). Haven't seen a yearly breakdown yet, but apparently this beat Cincy's deal (5/35) and wasn't quite what I had read he was asking for (4/40). Not sure if I'm excited about this one though. Haven't seen much of him live, but looking at his numbers it looks like the last 2 years were a drop off from his first 5, so hopefully we can get at least 2-3 years of him at his current level before another drop off.

And hopefully they still nab Crabtree if he's there at #4.

He'll be good for a couple of years. Don't worry about YPC, especially last season when Palmer was out. The offense has him constantly running the under routes because he'll catch anything. He's maybe the best third down receiver in the NFL right now. Sorry to lose him, but realistically the Bengals wouldn't be a serious contender even with him.

[stevew]

I'm not sad to see him leave the division. Guys a real player and yeah, he will catch everything. Hopefully Matt doesn't try to kill him like Carson often did.

[Travis]

Well, fingers crossed that with only $15 million in guaranteed money that there is some back loading here so that it's really more like a 3 year deal that will still leave the team with enough room to consider Crabtree at #4 (if he's still there). Being able to have Burleson as our #4 instead of in the top 3 would give them great options for the return game as well as being able to present some pretty fun personnel groupings for defenses to adjust to. That said, if Carlson goes down for any extended period of time there's really no backup plan currently in place.

[Swaggs]

Steelers lose Nate Washington to the Titans. Haven't seen the terms yet.

Probably a good fit for him. He is one of the more athletic receivers in the league, has great size, and seems to be able to get open pretty well. Unfortunately, he has below average hands, but I would expect him to do pretty well and put up decent numbers as a #1 or #2. Would have liked to have kept him, but with Ward, Holmes, and Sweed, there probably was not enough remaining money allocated for him as a #3 with the Steelers.

[stevew]

I really hope we can land a vet WR in FA. I'd take Galloway if his physical checks out. Steelers also should be looking corner, safety and both lines in the first 3 rounds.

[Swaggs]

Dola...

Looks like Washington gets 6-year/$27M, with $9M guaranteed.

Probably not a ridiculous deal, but after using a #2 on Sweed last season, not worth it for Pittsburgh. I didn't realize that he was just 25-years old, so he probably could continue to improve.

[Swaggs]

I really hope we can land a vet WR in FA. I'd take Galloway if his physical checks out. Steelers also should be looking corner, safety and both lines in the first 3 rounds.

Sean Morey? :)

[DeToxRox]

Yah. Seems like Nate was going to come here but he wanted more money to play for an 0-16 team (which makes sense) and when the Lions got Johnson, I held out hope we'd get him still but it wasn't in the cards.

[Swaggs]

I'm not sure if he'd consider himself a #3 receiver (or want to be paid more like a starter), but Amani Toomer might be a good 2-year fix for the Steelers. He has good size and is probably still fit enough to beat nickel or dime backs fairly regularly in 3-wide sets.

[stevew]

Sean Morey? :)

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

[Swaggs]

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

Arizona would probably consider Morey untouchable. Whisenhut seems to have held on to the tradition of "Cowher Guys." Wouldn't surprise me to see Kordell become their QB coach at some point.

[stevew]

I'm not sure if he'd consider himself a #3 receiver (or want to be paid more like a starter), but Amani Toomer might be a good 2-year fix for the Steelers. He has good size and is probably still fit enough to beat nickel or dime backs fairly regularly in 3-wide sets.

I'd prefer we sign someone who got cut, just to get comps for Washington and McFadden. Also I'd seriously consider offer sheeting Lance Moore for a 2nd rounder. Ward won't be here forever. Depends on how much Moore wants.

[sabotai]

Derrick Ward signed with the TB Bucs. Hope he does well with them, except if and when they play the Giants.

[cartman]

And it is the worst case scenario for the guys on the boat. The Coast Guard called off their search at 6:30pm Eastern.

[Qwikshot]

And it is the worst case scenario for the guys on the boat. The Coast Guard called off their search at 6:30pm Eastern.

Those guys were probably goners the moment they left the boat. It's a tragedy.

[Buccaneer]

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

[Qwikshot]

What are the Eagles doing?

Shawn Springs?

Really?

[Swaggs]

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

That sounds like reasonable logic. It would improve the 49ers while weakening the division champs or, at worst, they drive up the price and make the Cards "overpay" for Warner.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

BITE YOUR TONGUE!! :eek: :eek:

I'd prefer we sign someone who got cut, just to get comps for Washington and McFadden. Also I'd seriously consider offer sheeting Lance Moore for a 2nd rounder. Ward won't be here forever. Depends on how much Moore wants.

Moore, or Shaun McDonald is available. Not great, but nice as a slot guy, still pretty quick. Just won't replace Nate as a deep threat.

[sabotai]

Giants signed Safety CC Brown (Houston) today. He'll be replacing James Butler (who I thought was overrated).

[Scarecrow]

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

So Damon Huard is a better solution?
San Francisco 49ers bring back LB Takeo Spikes, add Damon Huard to QB mix - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953308)

[Julio Riddols]

Looks like Cincy is going to replace Housh with Laveranues Coles. Not a bad replacement. Maybe even a little more of a big play type who can stretch the d and return some kicks.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The contract they gave Coles is pretty ridiculous.

[Butter]

I thought that too, RD2... that's way too much money for him.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, 28 over four is a bit much, especially knowing that Brown is very reluctant to release guys. Good to see another wideout in front of our three 2008 draft picks.

[Galaxy]

T.O. released by the Cowboys.

[MikeVic]

BITE YOUR TONGUE!! :eek: :eek:



Moore, or Shaun McDonald is available. Not great, but nice as a slot guy, still pretty quick. Just won't replace Nate as a deep threat.

I think they may try Sweed as a deep threat? I know he dropped two open passes in the playoffs, but I liked his blocking hit after one of those drops... and the fact that he actually got open was nice to see.

[DataKing]

The Cowboys have released Roy Williams. He could be a nice replacement for Mike Brown at safety for the Bears, but I'm concerned about the sort of price tag he may have. Still he's only 28, so a bit younger than a lot of the big-name free agents out there.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Depends on whether you're interesting in your safeties being good, or just blowing coverage after coverage and occasionally putting a big hit on.

[DeToxRox]

Roy Williams just needs to gain 10 lbs and play OLB. He still could't cover a TE though.

[Galaxy]

Cowboys releasing T.O. and Roy Williams at the same time? Wow.

[albionmoonlight]

Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?

Or is it that his mesurables are such that we assume he is a top five talent regardless of the offensive style?

Edit--just to be clear, I am not saying that he isn't that good. Just that I have not heard anyone question whether a Run and Shoot receiver might be hard to project into the NFL.

[DeToxRox]

Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?

Or is it that his mesurables are such that we assume he is a top five talent regardless of the offensive style?

Crabtree is a monster. He has long arms, which makes up for his being only like 6'1". What he does well is he attacks the ball. He goes up and gets it. Plus he runs good routes, and never gives up on plays. He's like an Anquan Boldin, but faster. This could would've been a stud in any offense.

[Danny]

Woot, great news here. Javon Walker restructured his contract, giving lots of money back overall and reducing his cap figure from 10 million to 2 million for this season. The Raiders would have faced a 11 million cap hit this year if they released him under his old contract, so this is great news. At least that horrid contract they gave him last off season is rectified now.

SFGate: Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Breaking news: Javon takes paycut (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=11&entry_id=36608)

[watravaler]

Respectable move by Walker...

[RainMaker]

The Cowboys have released Roy Williams. He could be a nice replacement for Mike Brown at safety for the Bears, but I'm concerned about the sort of price tag he may have. Still he's only 28, so a bit younger than a lot of the big-name free agents out there.

Interesting option although the Bears biggest problem last year was pass defense. Williams is a huge liability out there. I could see him alongside Brown which would allow him to play the pass and Williams the run. Could also swap him out on passing downs with one of our faster safeties.

[RainMaker]

Crabtree is a monster. He has long arms, which makes up for his being only like 6'1". What he does well is he attacks the ball. He goes up and gets it. Plus he runs good routes, and never gives up on plays. He's like an Anquan Boldin, but faster. This could would've been a stud in any offense.

That's how I see him too. I don't think he'll ever be an elite WR or considered amongst the best in the NFL, but I think he'll have a real solid career. Probably make a few Pro Bowls and get in the top 10 in receptions/yards in many years.

[Travis]

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

[Lathum]

[QUOTE=albionmoonlight;1961163]Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?
QUOTE]

One of my best friends, who is also a casual poster here, is the Video editor for a BCS conference team ( I want to respect his privacy) and also used to work on the Redskins staff.

He has seen thousands of hours of tape and been involved in many sessions. He says Crabtree is a product of the system, and while very talented, not nearly as skilled as he is made out to be.

[RainMaker]

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

When I say elite level, I mean the top few receivers in football. The guys that scare the living daylight out of defensive coordinators. Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson come to mind. I don't think he'll ever reach that level. I think he'll be in that tier underneath them. Guys like Hines Ward, Laverneus Coles, Joe Horn type careers.

[fantom1979]

Top Receivers the last 3 years... not sure why this is relevant, but the post about the elite receivers made me wonder the difference between those that i perceive as elite compared to who the stats say are elite.

<table style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 288pt;" width="384" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><col style="width: 48pt;" width="64" span="6"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt; width: 48pt;" width="64" height="17">Reggie Wayne</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64" align="right">3</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64" align="right">30</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64" align="right">272</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64" align="right">3965</td> <td style="width: 48pt;" width="64" align="right">25</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Larry Fitzgerald</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">265</td> <td align="right">3786</td> <td align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Steve Smith</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">29</td> <td align="right">248</td> <td align="right">3589</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Terrell Owens</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">35</td> <td align="right">235</td> <td align="right">3587</td> <td align="right">38</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Andre Johnson</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">278</td> <td align="right">3573</td> <td align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Donald Driver</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="right">248</td> <td align="right">3355</td> <td align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Chad Johnson</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">233</td> <td align="right">3349</td> <td align="right">19</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Torry Holt</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">250</td> <td align="right">3173</td> <td align="right">20</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Lee Evans</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">200</td> <td align="right">3158</td> <td align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Tony Gonzalez</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">268</td> <td align="right">3130</td> <td align="right">20</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">T.J. Houshmandzadeh</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">294</td> <td align="right">3128</td> <td align="right">25</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Anquan Boldin</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">243</td> <td align="right">3094</td> <td align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Roddy White</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">201</td> <td align="right">3090</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Randy Moss</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">209</td> <td align="right">3054</td> <td align="right">37</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Braylon Edwards</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">196</td> <td align="right">3046</td> <td align="right">25</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Wes Welker</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">290</td> <td align="right">3027</td> <td align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Marques Colston</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">215</td> <td align="right">3000</td> <td align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jerricho Cotchery</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">235</td> <td align="right">2949</td> <td align="right">13</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Brandon Marshall</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">226</td> <td align="right">2899</td> <td align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Derrick Mason</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="right">251</td> <td align="right">2874</td> <td align="right">12</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Edit... Accidentally combined the two Steve Smith's before.

[sterlingice]

That's how I see him too. I don't think he'll ever be an elite WR or considered amongst the best in the NFL, but I think he'll have a real solid career. Probably make a few Pro Bowls and get in the top 10 in receptions/yards in many years.

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

How about something like the career path of Rod Smith (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitRo01.htm)? Never the best in the league, but you could definitely use him as a #1, was on the top 10 quite a few times in his career and made the Pro Bowl 3 times.

If you drafted Crabtree and knew you would be getting Rod Smith, would that be ok?

SI

[Galaxy]

Do you feel that receivers can be overvalued? If you got a quality offense with a quarterback who can make those throws, is an "elite" receiver going to be that much of an upgrade over a "good" receiver?

[DeToxRox]

An elite WR is quite an upgrade over a good WR.

Few in the NFL can do what Larry Fitz, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson can do. Have a 6'5 WR who can jump out of the stadium makes an okay QB good, a good QB great, and in some instances, a great QB elite.

[fantom1979]

How about something like the career path of Rod Smith (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitRo01.htm)? Never the best in the league, but you could definitely use him as a #1, was on the top 10 quite a few times in his career and made the Pro Bowl 3 times.

If you drafted Crabtree and knew you would be getting Rod Smith, would that be ok?

SI

If I thought I was getting Rod Smith, I would be thrilled. Rod Smith had a 6 year run where he was very good. The year he had 1600 yards he had Brian Griese and Gus Frerotte throwing to him (who both actually had a pretty good year).

You could always flip the coin and end up with David Terrell or Charles Rogers

[sterlingice]

That's why I thought he was a good name to throw out there. I think some people would be disappointed if they took a WR in the top 5 and he was "only" Rod Smith and not Moss or Fitz or Steve Smith or TO in terms of overall talent. I certainly would not be among them

SI

[JPhillips]

That's why I thought he was a good name to throw out there. I think some people would be disappointed if they took a WR in the top 5 and he was "only" Rod Smith and not Moss or Fitz or Steve Smith or TO in terms of overall talent. I certainly would not be among them

SI

I'd sure as hell take Smith over Peter Warrick.

[tucker rocky]

T.O. released by the Cowboys.

He'll end up just like Joe Horn.
Retired, and out of work.

No team wants an ego trip player like him.
He's 35, and on the backside of his career.

Not even a deep-pocketed team like the Redskins will take him.

[fantom1979]

He'll end up just like Joe Horn.
Retired, and out of work.

No team wants an ego trip player like him.
He's 35, and on the backside of his career.

Not even a deep-pocketed team like the Redskins will take him.

I am going to bet against you here. I really believe that someone will take a chance on him.

[gstelmack]

Patriots trade a 5th round pick to the Eagles for Greg Lewis and a 7th rounder in 2010. Gives them some depth at receiver.

They also sign CB Shawn Springs in FA.