Building around a TE

[Hammer]

Its got to the stage where its almost impossible to get a stud WR when you draft late 20's/30's in some MP leagues. In one particular league that is short of WRs they may be even tougher to get hold of than a good QB. Trading is a no go, just not happening :banghead:

I have a great veteran WR currently in his 9th year, and with little confidence of getting a quality WR to replace him I went after a stud TE. Here he is...


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard01-3.jpg



I'm almost certain that potential figure of 65 is false, he will be better than that.

I am aware of the studies that have been done, so fully understand its going to be a tough job ahead. I am going to keep the RR down on the RBs in particular, and once the veteran WR goes I am aiming to get another 50ish guy in a similar mold to this guy I already have...


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard02-1.jpg



I have a strong run blocking line, although am average/below average at RB right now.

I am going to tilt the formations and gameplan towards this stud TE, and see how far he can take me. Its going to be a learning experience with the familiar messages. Any advice or thoughts on this would be appreciated. I have a 12 formation QB, who has 8 TE formations.

Whats the best you have had out of a TE, and how far did you go to push him to the forefront of your offense?

[Ben E Lou]

I've gotten strong TE production pretty consistently in multiple leagues. The two biggest keys that I've seen are pretty intuitive:

1. Use as many formations as you can where the TE is on the field.
2. Keep most of your passes in the areas where the TE gets the ball (5-26 yards mostly).

Here are the two best ones that I've had:

http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=347 (his last three seasons were with my team)

http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12471 (career 9.3ypt. That's, uh, pretty good. Most WRs don't get that high. If he were a qualifier yet, that would be good for #6 all-time among all positions in the IHOF.)

[mmarra82]

Hey Nick, based on the above post, I had to link Gates.

vNFL - Antonio Gates (TE) (http://www.frontofficenfl.com/vnfl/player.php?player=1569)

[Hammer]

Thanks Mike, Ben.

Guys like Gates are what inspired me. In the vNFL Dallas Clark and Vernon Davis are 1st and 4th in all-time yards per target, 10.2 and 9.5 respectively.

There seems a barrier around 70 catches per year though. I'm sure I can achieve more, but I'm worried it opens a can of worms with familiar messages. We'll see.

[marcmoustache]

I think one key factor in favour of TEs is that they aren't [often] doubel teamed. In fact, when the WRs are heavily doubled, the TE can pick up a lot of key receptions if the QB has good read defense.

this guy does alright for me http://www.braddersnet.co.uk/rdfl/player/player.php?playerid=1891

[RedKingGold]

I have also had great success with production out of a stud TE. Coincidentally, he's built very similar to the future values of your TE:

TE Toby DeLorraine Player Details (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=4972)

I should note that the offense does not run through DeLorraine per se because I also have a stud WR and two very solid #2 and #3 receivers. However, we focus on Twin-TE formations and 95% of our attempted passes are the 1-yard to 25-yard variety. Also, we have a 25 in "Keep TE in to Pass Block", if that has any impact whatsoever.

[RedHawk00]

at the eNFL we dont have quite the player sites as others, but Roman Dux my TE with the Chiefs had a great season:

Receiving Team GP GS Targ Ctch Pct Yards Avg/C Avg/T YAC Long TD Drop PPlay TPct 20+C 100+G
Roman Dux KCY 16 13 99 76 76.8 932 12.26 9.41 342 68 10 2 404 24.5 10 1

I use a VERY balanced set of formations, and user a slightly higher number of double TE sets. I also use a gameplan that is heavy on the short/medium passes.

Sorry cannot get the formatting right, but 76 catches, 932 yards, 9.41 yards/target

[Hammer]

I'm thinking this guy can make 100 catches with all the effort I am going to, to promote him as the no.1 guy in our offense. I will do some testing over the weekend, replicating my intentions, and see how it pans out. As I said before, my concern is featuring him so heavily will cause issues. Only one way to find out.

[Hammer]

End of season 1 update. Zachery appears to be every bit as good as I hoped. His RR is a little lower than I hoped, although I think it might push up to 80. He has posted a solid first season. Extender thinks he should be 2nd team All-Pro. I made gameplan alterations to push him to the forefront of the offense at the start of the year. At this point though our no.1 WR is understandably the dominant receiver in the passing game. In particular, I think he is taking away Zachery's share of the intermediate routes. I think his yardage totals will vastly improve down the line. As a 9th year veteran, we hope for a smooth passing of the torch from Williams to Zachery.

As an offense we passed for 4,633 yards, with a 121.9 passer rating. While having these 2 guys together we are obviously have a nice situation, whether we can keep that kind of pace going with Zachery at the forefront of the offense remains to be seen.


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Zachery.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard11-1.jpg





http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard16.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard20.jpg

[MIJB#19]

With a WR like that, of course you won't be seeing a lot of catches for your TE. :D But even with crappy WRs, I think you'll find out it's near impossible to reach 100 targets and 1,000 yards.

[MIJB#19]

Heh, I think I stand corrected on that statement about 100 targets for 1000 yards by Ben's post in the other thread...

[tarcone]

Dont forget to lower his "stay in to block when he isnt the primary or secondary receiver" number.

[Lintyfresh85]

A guy in the OSFL had a TE this year post over 100 catches.

http://www.simgamingnetwork.com/osfl/ben/playercard.php?playerid=4926

I'm not sure if Elprez post on this board but he's the username you'd want to talk to about getting the TE the ball.

[Hammer]

I have worked out how to get him the ball. Problem is I am finding yards per target, and overall passing production and efficiency are slipping when you pass a certain point. It seems to me if you get too hell bent on getting the ball to the TE, the team stats to suffer. Familiar messages start to have an effect as the TE only has a limited number of patterns presumably. Its finding that balance in the gameplan.

I have been doing my testing in SP. In the MP league with this guy, we are just nearing the end of his rookie year. We have just made our 4th consecutive bowl in the vNFL, and TE bloke is now reading 85/85. Not quite maxed yet either.

[Yoda]

Familiar messages start to have an effect as the TE only has a limited number of patterns presumably. Its finding that balance in the gameplan.


FOF2k7 Play's chart (images heavy) - Front Office Football Central (http://fof.sportplanet.gamespy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61350)

That should help you find what you are looking for.

[Ben E Lou]

Through 12 games, TE Tyrell Hutchins (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=17481) in the FOFL has 69 catches, 960 yards, and 9 TDs. That's a 92-1280-12 pace, and barring injury, pretty much a sure thing for something like 80-1100-10. And we're right around average in number of passes thrown. This is a case where I have a VG WR, stud TE, decent WR2, and not much else.

[bighouserulez]

IF that goes through, that has to be the best single TE season i have ever seen. Does your offense run more of a balanced attack because i am sure you have to feed off the run to not get the familiar messages?

[Ben E Lou]

29.8 rushes per game (#8)
33.8 passes per game (#18)

We've run it 46.9% of the time, which is small amount above the NFL average, and probably a bit more above the FOF MP average...but nothing extravagant, either. My run-pass split in my primary game plan is pretty middle-of-the-road.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

But it's possible to run soem pretty crazy game plans sucessfully in FOF if you spread out your formations enough. Screenies coming up...

[Hammer]

This is what I had in mind Ben, the yards per target in particular. Having just drafted the WR Wetzel, that I highlighted in another thread, Zachery now has a weight of expectation off of his shoulders. I think the offense will be that much healthier, although Zachery's numbers may not be what I originally aimed for.

[johnnyshaka]

Maybe a little late to the party but this guy (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/fowl/ben/playercard.php?playerid=11694) has been the focus of our passing game (well, that's deceiving, we run the ball exclusively and he picks up what he can when we do pass it...which is rarely) in the FOWL where the rookie QBs and WRs are nerfed every season.

[Ben E Lou]

Forgot to do an end-season update on Hutchins. He finished with 87 catches, 1220 yards, 12 TDs, 10.80 ypt. 8 games into the next season, his numbers are looking quite similar to that: 42 catches, 613 yards, 9 TDs, 11.35ypt. I just noticed that he has moved into #1 in league history in career ypt:



<table class="playerstats" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="playercareer"><th colspan="3">YARDS/TARGET</th></tr> <tr class="playeryear"><td>1.</td><td align="left">Tyrell Hutchins (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=17481)</td><td>10.3796</td></tr><tr class="playerhof" style="font-style: italic;"><td>2.</td><td align="left">Geoff Thompson (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=7480)</td><td>9.5985</td></tr><tr class="playergame" style="font-style: italic;"><td>3.</td><td align="left">Chris Sanders (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=9925)</td><td>9.4882</td></tr><tr class="playeryear"><td>4.</td><td align="left">Jimmy Fulcher (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=14994)</td><td>9.4224</td></tr><tr class="playerhof" style="font-style: italic;"><td>5.</td><td align="left">Isaac Mansour (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=5826)</td><td>9.3752</td></tr><tr class="playergame" style="font-style: italic;"><td>6.</td><td align="left">Les O'Grady (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=5796)</td><td>9.2976</td></tr><tr class="playeryear"><td>7.</td><td align="left">Bernie Tanner (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=13311)</td><td>9.2719</td></tr><tr class="playergame" style="font-style: italic;"><td>8.</td><td align="left">Burt Pearson (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=9132)</td><td>9.2602</td></tr><tr class="playeryear"><td>9.</td><td align="left">Brian Kasperczak (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=12489)</td><td>9.2529</td></tr><tr class="playergame" style="font-style: italic;"><td>10.</td><td align="left">Bennie Perkins (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=10778)</td><td>9.2275</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Brownkeg8]

Just finished the 1998 season in the VNFL house w/ T. Gonzalez 96/96. Ran a west coast style offense with 11 yr. vet T. Brown 67/67 on the outside.

vNFL House Database (http://vnflhouse.jdavidbaker.com/show_player.php?id=11655)

[Ben E Lou]

Bumping this as the career of Tyrell Hutchins (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=17481)is nearing the end. After 9 seasons, Hutchins has a career 9.56 ypt. That's #4 in league history, #1 (by far) in my team's history. However, it's worth noting that 17 FOFL tight ends with 1,000 or more pass plays have 8.0 ypt or better. Any receiver, be it a TE or WR, who passes that number is worth the targets. So I firmly believe that there are quite a few tight ends that you want to work into the offense as a main target.

But in analyzing the numbers on Hutchins and a couple other tight ends of mine, I think I've hit on why I tend to have tight ends with bigger numbers than nearly everyone else. I'm sure some think it's because of some super-secret beat-the-system game plan. And I'm sure that there's a small component to that. But the more I look, the more I see that the bigger component is simply formations. My good tight ends get wayyyyyyyyyyyy more pass plays than other people's because when I have a worthy one, I keep him on the field a *lot*.

For example, Hutchins has the best ypt among TEs in the FOFL. However, he is only #49 among TEs in target percentage. In other words, he's not (as I thought earlier) getting an inordinate amount of targets for when he's on the field. However, his participation simply blows every TE in league history away. He has averaged 927 plays per season. The next-highest TE is at 815. (And that guy is RKG's TE. As he mentioned above, he's another guy who gets big number from tight ends.) No other TE in league history averaged over 800 plays per season. My young stud IHOF TE has had 1017 and 951 plays in his two seasons. My primary WOOF TE doesn't have top-tier endurance, but even he is up around 875 plays per full season. All three of these guys are top receiving TEs, but none of them have particularly high target percentages. Sure, they get more targets than Joe Average Tight End, but they're nowhere near tops in the league among TEs, either.

So, I believe the bottom line is this:

The most important factor in getting your tight end involved in the passing game is heavily reducing or simply eliminating formations that do not involve the tight end.

Pass distance is important, too, but having him on the field is the #1 factor.

The key question to me when determining how much to reduce the usage of non-TE formations is this: who better receiver-TE1 or backup WRs???

I'd rather have my stud TE out there getting 8 to 9 yards per target than some 42/42 WR4 who is lucky to get 7.0, so I simply do not use the 4-WR and 5-WR formations when I have a big-time TE. And if my WR3 is that 42/42 type, I get rid of strong-3wr and weak-3wr too.

[bulletsponge]

thanks for the update ben e. im having problems with a TE and i should try what you sAid

[Ben E Lou]

Another passing thought...

I wonder about this.The strong-side linebacker is often assigned to the tight end.Given the dearth of LBs with good coverage skills in FOF, I wonder if that helps top-tier TEs put up very good ypt numbers. That's the best explanation I can come up with if you ask me why my FOFL TE has consistently topped my VG WRs in ypt: he's being covered by lesser players than the WRs.

[Steel]

I tried this offense in 3 separate leagues, and it failed in all 3. One of the leagues I have a 96/96 stud QB, and a TE that is 74/74 with big bars all around. While my TE averaged 10.52 yards per target, and he was getting his fair share of balls thrown his way, the offense as a whole played extremely sporadic. We couldn't generate points, and even the run game was inconsistent. Not only that, but my QB struggled, and was throwing interceptions left and right, which he hadn't done since I drafted him(5 year vet). Soon as I spread the formations out, and ran a more conventional type of offensive scheme, the offense played well, and my QB went 7 straight games without an INT.

[Ben E Lou]

I tried this offense in 3 separate leagues, and it failed in all 3. One of the leagues I have a 96/96 stud QB, and a TE that is 74/74 with big bars all around. While my TE averaged 10.52 yards per target, and he was getting his fair share of balls thrown his way, the offense as a whole played extremely sporadic. We couldn't generate points, and even the run game was inconsistent. Not only that, but my QB struggled, and was throwing interceptions left and right, which he hadn't done since I drafted him(5 year vet). Soon as I spread the formations out, and ran a more conventional type of offensive scheme, the offense played well, and my QB went 7 straight games without an INT.What do you mean by "this offense?" I run a regular balanced offense to get the TE big numbers and it works quite well. Are you talking about some sort of gimmick offense? I don't think that's the primary discussion here...

[Hammer]

Another passing thought...

I wonder about this.Given the dearth of LBs with good coverage skills in FOF, I wonder if that helps top-tier TEs put up very good ypt numbers. That's the best explanation I can come up with if you ask me why my FOFL TE has consistently topped my VG WRs in ypt: he's being covered by lesser players than the WRs.


I kind of wonder if the game isn't as complicated as we would like it to be, I don't know that there is any "matchup" as such. More of an overall offense versus defense, with the stats as a window dressing.

Double coverage does help though, I'm pretty sure about that. VG WRs would see a lot of DC, and would explain a lot of the benefit your seeing IMO.

[Ben E Lou]

I kind of wonder if the game isn't as complicated as we would like it to be, I don't know that there is any "matchup" as such. More of an overall offense versus defense, with the stats as a window dressing.I strongly suspect it's in between. There's a "coverage cloud," but it's weighted. The weighting therefore creates "matchups" to some degree. In other words, on a pass where the TE is the main target, everyone's ratings matter, but the TE and the SLB get weighted the most heavily in the calculations. And as I mentioned above,

Double coverage does help though, I'm pretty sure about that. VG WRs would see a lot of DC, and would explain a lot of the benefit your seeing IMO.Well, in 2-TE sets, the TE with high RR can get double covered. We saw that a ton in the WOOF during the two years I went with 2-TE exclusively. Marcus Bennett (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=10829) (RR=86) was often double covered.

[Yoda]

Also, depending on if a player is playing zone, a player that might not be DC'ed by the GP, could be DC'ed because they were in man coverage and ran through that defensive players zone.

[Steel]

What do you mean by "this offense?" I run a regular balanced offense to get the TE big numbers and it works quite well. Are you talking about some sort of gimmick offense? I don't think that's the primary discussion here...

I was referring to the '2 TE Offense'. Not sure what you mean by 'gimmick'.

[Yoda]

The 2 TE offense (that is, only running the 2 TE's formations and all others zeroed out) is a gimmick offense.

[Ben E Lou]

Right, and this thread isn't about the 2-TE offense.

That said, my experience with the 2-TE offense in 6.3 was quite good. My team went to the Bowl twice with it, winning once. Granted, we had a dominating defense, but we did finish #2 in total offense. Here are the stats from that year:

WOOF: Lowcountry Gators 2021 (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/teampage.php?teamid=29&year=2021)

[Hammer]

Well, in 2-TE sets, the TE with high RR can get double covered. We saw that a ton in the WOOF during the two years I went with 2-TE exclusively. Marcus Bennett (RR=86) was often double covered.

Sure, but usually that will account for the minority in the bigger picture. I don't think the TE can be DC'd in a 1 TE set. That is a big leg up for the TEs stats, when compared to a VG WR.

[aston217]

Ben E Lou, have you noticed that the Patriots are running your 2-TE offense this year? Pretty cool stuff.

65 of 80 snaps in their first game were from 2-TE (or more) sets.
60 of 71 snaps in their second game were from 2-TE (or more) sets. Actually 18 of these were from 3-TE sets.

And they didn't get any familiars! Judging from the numbers, anyway.

[TheFoosballWizard]

Obviously, Belichick has been reading Ben's guide to drafting. Unfortunately, Laurence Maroney was hit with the VSOD.

[aston217]

Wait a minute.

Ben E Lou...BEL...BEL...ichick?

:eek:

[Julio Riddols]

Wouldn't it be the weirdest thing if Ben E Lou was just an elaborately planned false identity used by Bill Belichick so he could test gameplanning strategies using FOF without people going all Roger Clemens fanboy on him? Weird how the rise of FOF and the rise of the Patriots coincide..

[gstelmack]

Ben E Lou, have you noticed that the Patriots are running your 2-TE offense this year? Pretty cool stuff.

Where have you been? The Patriots have been running a 2 TE offense for quite some time.

[aston217]

Well, I don't have the numbers for previous years but I don't think the % was near this high.

Also '07-'09 may have been exceptions to this. A lot of 3WR if I remember.

[conception]

I'm toying around with a TE based passing game in my SP league. I'm playing an historical and I picked up Ozzie Newsome in the draft because I missed out on all the top WR's. I've worked alot using the balanced gameplan as a template, but heavily working with the formations to keep the TE on the field. Like some others, I noticed a decreased overall offensive performance when I limited the formations, so I've actually used Newsome as a slot receiver when there is no TE on the field.

What I wanted to ask about is whether or not it's a smart idea to keep the TE out as a slot receiver. All of my receivers, including my #2, are in the 30-40 range, though my #2 is a young receiver with much higher potential. I'm not real enthused on keeping any of them out on the field. Newsome is a 72 at TE, with big red bars for all receiving skills. Is he going to be so incompetent as a slot receiver that I should remove him, or is the performance loss going to be negligible?

[Ben E Lou]

Do not put a RB or TE in the slot in FOF. The developer said this pretty definitively in a Q&A.

Incidentally, I'm working on a new game plan library right now with revamps of the ones I did in the past, plus some new ones. There's a new one that I'm simply calling "TE Focus." It's basically how I'd game plan with a good-not-great QB, strong running game, average WRs, and a stud TE. The TE is consistently leading the team in receptions and receiving yardage. Just ran a quick test season and the 81/81 TE had 82 catches, 1187 yards, 9.13ypt, 10 TDs. The WRs are both rated around 50/50 with a combined RR of a little over 100, and the RB is a stud with 100 RR. It's basically a 55-30-15 game plan with 10-5-85 short, and 45-40-5-5-5 long, keeping the great majority of passes in the "TE Zone." And of course formations are set so that the TE will never leave the field. I hope to get these out by the weekend.

[conception]

Ok, thanks for the response. I'll just severely limit the non-TE formations, though I won't get rid of them entirely for the sake of balance and not having too many familiars.

It's great that you are putting out a TE focus gameplan, that's one thing that was really missing in the old one.

[aston217]

Here's a question for you, Ben - say you only got 4 active WRs for a week. Who do you put in as the 5th WR (whether or not you run that formation, I'm guessing the game will take that guy as one of the subs for your other WRs in the event of injury or tiredness) - some RB, or a TE?

[Ben E Lou]

Here's a question for you, Ben - say you only got 4 active WRs for a week. Who do you put in as the 5th WR (whether or not you run that formation, I'm guessing the game will take that guy as one of the subs for your other WRs in the event of injury or tiredness) - some RB, or a TE?That's a tough one, and purely hypothetical for me. In the effort to chemistry-boost my WR corps, the fewest WRs I carry on any of my MP teams currently is 7 at WOOF. I have 9 or 10 on my roster in every other league. ;) But if faced with that situation, I guess I would put the guy in with the highest positional experience at WR. And I'd absolutely avoid using 5-WR and limit 4-WR too. The last time I checked, RBs and TEs thrust into this situation weren't just a little worse; they were completely nerfed.

[gstelmack]

The last time I checked, RBs and TEs thrust into this situation weren't just a little worse; they were completely nerfed.

And somewhere Bill Belichick is crying...

[conception]

That's a tough one, and purely hypothetical for me. In the effort to chemistry-boost my WR corps, the fewest WRs I carry on any of my MP teams currently is 7 at WOOF. I have 9 or 10 on my roster in every other league. ;) But if faced with that situation, I guess I would put the guy in with the highest positional experience at WR. And I'd absolutely avoid using 5-WR and limit 4-WR too. The last time I checked, RBs and TEs thrust into this situation weren't just a little worse; they were completely nerfed.

Would the same apply to fullbacks who are playing TE? I know that you can switch a lot of FB's to TE without too much of a penalty (besides experience lost).

[Yoda]

Ben isn't talking about position switching, he's referring to playing a player out of position (TE or RB at WR, not)

[Ben E Lou]

Correct. Position-switching is something else entirely. I'm talking about playing a guy out of position.

[Ben E Lou]

IHOF's DogBytes Offensive Rookie O' The Year. (Dunno if Solecismic is gonna give him props. Never seen a TE get that one...)

http://108.59.255.76/~benelou/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=26761 (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=26761)

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</center><center></center><table style="border-collapse: collapse" border="3" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YEAR</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>TEAM</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>G</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>GS</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>TGT</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>CTCH</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YD</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>TD</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YPT</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YPC</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>DRP</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YAC</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>YAC/CTC</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>1DN</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>3DN%</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>20+</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>20+%</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>100+</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>PSPLY</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>TGT%</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>SCORE</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>RNK</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>POSRNK</center></th><th bgcolor="#C0A35A"><center>VORP</center></th></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>2033 (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/seasonleaders.php?category=3&playerid=26761&year=2033)</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/slivers/helmet3.png (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/teampage.php?teamid=3)</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>16</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>16</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>109</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>84</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>1328</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>17</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>12.2</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>15.8</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>3</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>565</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>6.73</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>63</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>72.7273</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>22</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>26.1905</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>8</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>472</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>23.1%</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>1,322.2</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>1 (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/seasonleaders.php?category=3&year=2033&playerid=26761)</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>1 (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/seasonleaders.php?category=3&year=2033&playerid=26761&positiongroup=4)</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffffff"><center>124.9 (http://108.59.255.76/%7Ebenelou/ihof/ben/seasonleaders.php?category=3&year=2033&playerid=26761)</center></td> </tr> </tbody></table>

(His ratings are actually up to 90/90 now, at the end of his first regular season, by my scout. I just haven't had time to update the database.)

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/suck_it_gronkowski.png

[Chubby]

uhhh why don't you post the stats for the rest of your offense :)

He certainly had a crazy season but he wouldn't have put up those numbers without the talent around him IMO

[Ben E Lou]

Because the stats for my offense have nothing to do with the point of this thread. My point in posting is that this TE led or tied for the team lead in every key receiving category, and was in the top 10 in the league (top 5 in many categories) in nearly every receiving category. He's is a classic example of what I said earlier:Bumping this as the career of Tyrell Hutchins (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=17481)is nearing the end. After 9 seasons, Hutchins has a career 9.56 ypt. That's #4 in league history, #1 (by far) in my team's history. However, it's worth noting that 17 FOFL tight ends with 1,000 or more pass plays have 8.0 ypt or better. Any receiver, be it a TE or WR, who passes that number is worth the targets. So I firmly believe that there are quite a few tight ends that you want to work into the offense as a main target.

But in analyzing the numbers on Hutchins and a couple other tight ends of mine, I think I've hit on why I tend to have tight ends with bigger numbers than nearly everyone else. I'm sure some think it's because of some super-secret beat-the-system game plan. And I'm sure that there's a small component to that. But the more I look, the more I see that the bigger component is simply formations. My good tight ends get wayyyyyyyyyyyy more pass plays than other people's because when I have a worthy one, I keep him on the field a *lot*.

For example, Hutchins has the best ypt among TEs in the FOFL. However, he is only #49 among TEs in target percentage. In other words, he's not (as I thought earlier) getting an inordinate amount of targets for when he's on the field. However, his participation simply blows every TE in league history away. He has averaged 927 plays per season. The next-highest TE is at 815. (And that guy is RKG's TE. As he mentioned above, he's another guy who gets big number from tight ends.) No other TE in league history averaged over 800 plays per season. My young stud IHOF TE has had 1017 and 951 plays in his two seasons. My primary WOOF TE doesn't have top-tier endurance, but even he is up around 875 plays per full season. All three of these guys are top receiving TEs, but none of them have particularly high target percentages. Sure, they get more targets than Joe Average Tight End, but they're nowhere near tops in the league among TEs, either.

So, I believe the bottom line is this:

The most important factor in getting your tight end involved in the passing game is heavily reducing or simply eliminating formations that do not involve the tight end.

Pass distance is important, too, but having him on the field is the #1 factor.

The key question to me when determining how much to reduce the usage of non-TE formations is this: who better receiver-TE1 or backup WRs???

I'd rather have my stud TE out there getting 8 to 9 yards per target than some 42/42 WR4 who is lucky to get 7.0, so I simply do not use the 4-WR and 5-WR formations when I have a big-time TE. And if my WR3 is that 42/42 type, I get rid of strong-3wr and weak-3wr too.As best as I can tell, Tucker ran ~933 plays from scrimmage this season (may have been a few less than that if we faked a FG or punt at some point...) Glenn, with his 100 endurance and my using formations involving TEs nearly 100% of the time, was on the field for 888 of those plays--over 95%. We only used the TE-Focus game plan in one game this year. The other 15 games, we were doing our typical Run-N-Stun style offense with lots of passes outside the "sweet spots" for TEs, yet he still got Gronkowski-level numbers. I'm suggesting that a huge reason for that is simply that he was out there for nearly every play, which doesn't happen using default formation settings.

[Chubby]

The point of the thread was building an offense around a TE as a guy's WR aged and retired, it's entirely different from plugging a stud TE into a loaded offense. The offense doesn't revolve around Glenn like Hammer wanted his to revolve around Zachery.

I still maintain that as awesome as his season was (it was), he's a product of the offense. Simply throwing him out there with a mediocre QB and no WRs is not going to net you Glenn's stats. Your QB throwing for 5000+ yards and almost 60 tds DOES influence howone looks at Glenn's stats IMO

[aston217]

I think the point Ben is trying to illustrate is that you can build around a stud TE - and the key to getting that kind of production, is to avoid the formations where the TE is off the field (3WR except singleback, 4WR, 5WR).

If you pull out all the stops and make him the focus of your offense, you can get real production out of a guy.

Maybe not like that, but I think the focus is more on the relative production of his TE to the WRs on that team.

[Chubby]

I think the point is more about how a stud TE can be a real impact player on an offense, one you can build around, versus selling out to try to get the best WRs you can.

That's my point, he did sellout and draft WRs top 10. The offense isn't built around Glenn, it's a SP offense in MP with a great GP.

[GridGlory]

FOF2k7 Play's chart (images heavy) - Front Office Football Central (http://fof.sportplanet.gamespy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61350)

That should help you find what you are looking for.

Wish I could still see this Yoda. I'm a little late to the game :(

[Yoda]

I wish I had those images saved....

But, in running a 2-TE offense, you'll want to run some formations in addition to the 2TE ones or if you run just the 2-TE sets, make sure you are balanced. It seems to me that familiars are more based off type of plays out of a formation rather than just the usage of the formation itself.

I've run offenses with just 4 formations with limited familiars showing up.

[aston217]

It seems to me that familiars are more based off type of plays out of a formation rather than just the usage of the formation itself.


I think this is true. Recently I've had to run with a very limited set of formations, and was hit by a lot of familiars. When I went to check, the formations were different but they were all outside left runs.

I don't think the play sheet is relevant in the MP play engine, but I suppose the way to achieve balance would be to spread around the passing distances. Might not be that ideal, as Yoda told me a while ago that you really want the screen-18 range for TEs.

[Disturbed]

When I used to play FOF I would always try to build offense that incorporated heavy use of the TE, especially on 3rd downs as I found that I would generally complete 70% of my passes to the TE.