NFL Conference Championship Games Discussion

[Thomkal]

There, happy now?

OMG, I'm so glad it time for football, this week just crawled, I may go insane waiting for the Super Bowl if the Cards win. Good luck to the Eagles, Steelers, and Ravens fans, but of course:

Go Cards!

I think the Steelers will win the other game. Sooner or later a rookie coach and QB are going to make mistakes that are going to cost them in one of these games, and the Steelers will certainly take advantage of them.

[EagleFan]

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles!!!!!

Kind of a strange day though. I have to leave for the airport basically right around the time the game is ending, hopefully it gets done on time, which means I have to miss the AFC game. Really dreading this trip too so I at least hope the game turns out right to at least start it off well.

It's also funny how there are suddenly "Cardinals fans". Most weeks there are more fans of the visitors in the stadium. They are probably all just like my brother, the fair weather fan type. He moved out there several years ago and now I hear that he is a "Cardinals fan" and when asked wy he says it's because he lives there. Funny how he was never a "Cardinals fan" the first X number of years when he was out there. Hell, he never even mentioned them once duing the year until this week.

We can now return to our regularly scheduled thread.... :)

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles!!!!

[duckman]

Fuck the Iggles! Fuck McChoke! Go Cards!

[Chubby]

Go Eagles!

[EagleFan]

Fuck the Iggles! Fuck McChoke! Go Cards!

Funny a Cowboys fan would use the word Choke, but I guess they are experts at watching something choke (Romo, the king of choke).... How long has it been since they've even won a playoff game?

[Buccaneer]

Go Cards. Go Anyone-But-the-Steelers.

[Buccaneer]

My wife and son always watched the early pre-game show on ESPN and just happened to catch TJ with that holodeck thing. I had not seen that before but that was very cool.

[Eaglesfan27]

I can't wait for the Eagles game to start. Just trying to keep busy to make the wait easier. I haven't been this excited for a game since the USC-Texas game. Hopefully this one will go better.

[Dr. Sak]

I can't wait for the Eagles game to start. Just trying to keep busy to make the wait easier. I haven't been this excited for a game since the USC-Texas game. Hopefully this one will go better.

I'm headed over my dad's now. He's the only other Eagles fan I know in the area. I've learned to temper my excitement but it is ramping up now!

[Thomkal]

Funny a Cowboys fan would use the word Choke, but I guess they are experts at watching something choke (Romo, the king of choke).... How long has it been since they've even won a playoff game?

Longer than the Cardinals have now :)

[Thomkal]

i just hope they are two well played, close games without any serious injuries for any of the teams. But after that...

Go Cards! :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm headed over my dad's now. He's the only other Eagles fan I know in the area. I've learned to temper my excitement but it is ramping up now!

There aren't any I know down here, so I'll be sharing my excitement with those on the board.

[EagleFan]

Longer than the Cardinals have now :)

Actually, the Cardinals had already won a playoff game since the Cowboys' last playoff win. They beat the Cowboys.

Since the Cowboys last playoff win the following teams have had playoff wins:

Arizona 3
Atlanta 4
Baltimore 7
Carolina 6
Chicago 2
Denver 8
Green Bay 8
Indianapolis 6
Jacksonville 4
Miami 3
Minnesota 5
New England 17
New Orleans 2
New York Giants 6
New York Jets 3
Oakland 4
Philadelphia 10
Pittsburgh 9
San Diego 3
San Francisco 3
Seattle 4
St. Louis 6
Tampa Bay 5
Tennessee 5
Washington 2


25 of the 31 other teams have won a playoff game in that time span. So in reality the Cowboys are in the same league as:

Detroit
Cleveland
Buffalo
Houston
Cincinnati

[Buccaneer]

25 of the 31 other teams have won a playoff game in that time span. So in reality the Cowboys are in the same league as:

Detroit
Cleveland
Buffalo
Houston
Cincinnati

Ouch.

[Thomkal]

Man that was a perfect start for the Cards-woohoo!

[Radii]

Great drive for Arizona to open the game.

[Dr. Sak]

Can't miss tackles like that and expect to win

[Lathum]

Fitzgerald is good.

[Buccaneer]

Go Kurt (and Fitzgerald)!

[Lathum]

BAD KICKER!!`

[Thomkal]

yeah that was just dumb to give the Eagles good field position like that

[Lathum]

and then a free play for the Eagles

[Eaglesfan27]

Love seeing them come out with what appeared to be a planned run for McNabb.

[Thomkal]

well kept them out of the endzone at least

[Izulde]

Although I'm rooting for the Eagles because of McNabb, I'm fine with either team winning. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

Heck of a hit on Fitzgerald. Nice to see the defense come back this drive.

[Neuqua]

McNabb is having all the time in the world.

[Eaglesfan27]

What a great job by DeSean Jackson to keep hustling after that play and then a perfect strip.

[Dr. Sak]

Heads up play by Jackson

[Thomkal]

man what a change of emotion that was on those turnovers

[Dr. Sak]

Mcnabb needs to calm down

[Thomkal]

woohoo akers streak is over

[Eaglesfan27]

Fuck!

Please be on the Cardinals..

[Northwood_DK]

Wow

[Thomkal]

OMG!

[Izulde]

Man, Fitzgerald is -awesome-.

[Lathum]

Fitzgerald Is Good

[Radii]

WOW

[Neuqua]

That was a beautiful play.

[Northwood_DK]

Thats just to easy for Fitzgerald

[SnowMan]

I have a mancrush on Fitzgerald. He's just a beast.

[Buccaneer]

Wow. Wow. Wow. I am so glad I saw that. You guys probably heard my wife and son scream all the way to where you are.

[Eaglesfan27]

Kevin Curtis!!!

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't see how that wasn't a penalty.

[Danny]

Looked like an easy call to me and I am leaning towards rooting Arizona at this point.

[Thomkal]

Cards are getting lucky with their stupid plays not costing them too much so far-bad punt, stupid penalty while McNabb was being sacked, and just two FG's out of it

[Danny]

I like both teams though, so it's tough for me to pick a team here. I mostly just want a great game.

[Thomkal]

And Joe Buck is not a McNabb fan is he?

[Thomkal]

yeah probably should have been an interference penalty there

[Eaglesfan27]

And Joe Buck is not a McNabb fan is he?

He hates everything associated with Philly.

[Danny]

Aikman seems to have a bias against Mcnabb too.

[Dr. Sak]

The defense is still sleeping

[Dr. Sak]

And Joe Buck is not a McNabb fan is he?

Joe buck hates Philly

[Voo]

I wonder if the Eagles defense is going to show up at some point. If not we're looking at a 42-15 game.

[Eaglesfan27]

Kurt is playing very well. Eagles need to hit him and rattle him.

[Northwood_DK]

Thats some nice play calling by Arizona right now

[Voo]

I guess I shouldn't pin it all on the defense, as you can clearly see Arizona made a game plan for the team they are facing...What did the brain trust of Reid and Morningwheig do for the Eagles?

[Jas_lov]

Buck is from St. Louis and is rooting for Warner and the Cards. Aikman hates Philly from his playing days. These two have always been extremely biased and they basically only call Cowboys or Giants games in the regular season.

[MrDNA]

I think people's problems with McNabb - in this game at least - are his godawful throws. Although it's true Joe *uck really does hate Philly. He was impossible to listen to during the World Series.

And when did the Cardinals become this good? And can the please send the recipe to Eric Mangini c/o the Cleveland (haven't won a playoff game since Dallas has) Browns? http://prince.org/i/s/icon_pray.gif

[Thomkal]

woohoo Cards!

[MrDNA]

Holy friggin' crap, Larry Fitzgerald. 21-6?!?!

[Izulde]

Man, this is just crazy.

[DeToxRox]

Larry Fitzgerald is having the best playoffs I've ever seen by one player.

[bhlloy]

Aikman seems to have a bias against Mcnabb too.

In his defense, McNabb had missed at least 3 wide open guys in the first 2 drives, 2 of which would have been easy touchdowns. That being said, if anyone is qualified to comment on overrated QB's that only win because of the talent around them, it's Aikman :lol:

Fizgerald might been turning in one of the performances for the ages. He's on a complete other level. Reading the other thread on who you would build a franchise around, he might be my pick. And he's only going to get better.

[Danny]

Wow, Arizona is looking like it's headed to the Superbowl so far. Amazing.

[Jas_lov]

Larry Fitzgerald is dominating everybody. The Eagles are finished.

[bhlloy]

Larry Fitzgerald is dominating everybody. The Eagles are finished.

So, Eagles by 14 anyone? :lol:

[Eaglesfan27]

Oh my. :(

[Northwood_DK]

Cardinals ball

[Jas_lov]

It never went out of bounds. Cardinal ball! Terrible all around effort by the Eagles. Just atrocious.

[Buccaneer]

To the Phil Eagles, please continue to make only FGs and to put single coverage on Fitzgerald. kthx.

[Neuqua]

Is that reviewable?

[Northwood_DK]

or not?

[bhlloy]

I'm watching without the sound on because my wife is working from home. Can somebody explain the call on the field? Is it because he touched it while his foot was out of bounds? That's a tough break for the Cards...

[Neuqua]

This could be HUGE.

[Tekneek]

Big screw up by the officials if this cannot be fixed.

[Dr. Sak]

The eagles just got a gift

[Jas_lov]

BS call. That should be reviewable.

[Thomkal]

how the hell is that not reviewable?

[Lathum]

Cards got screwed

[Tekneek]

Unbelievable. Those officials should be ashamed and I expect the league to admit this blunder.

[Eaglesfan27]

The Eagles are very lucky there. When it was live I thought it was Cardinals ball and I still do.

[Thomkal]

Merry Christmas Eagles

[kingfc22]

Guess that "rule" will change this offseason

[Tekneek]

So, if you run out of bounds when the ball gets near you, the play is dead and that's the end of it? What the hell is that about?

[Radii]

It seemed to me like it hit the returner's left arm while his foot was out of bounds. Guess I'm in the minority on that one though! Not that it matters either way with it being unreviewable.

[kingfc22]

Intentional grounding. Not sure what took that flag so long. What the hell are these officials watching.

[Dr. Sak]

Unbelievable. Those officials should be ashamed and I expect the league to admit this blunder.

If the ball was touching the eagles player when he was oob the play is dead too

[RendeR]

Wow talk about a fucking gift for Philly. This game should be over at this point if Arizona punches in a 4th td.

I couldn't see the guy touch the ball and the ball NEVER went out of bounds.

Holy shit....Just awful.

[Thomkal]

nice way to come back from that bad call, blitzing, causing intentional grounding

[Tekneek]

If the ball was touching the eagles player when he was oob the play is dead too

It certainly wasn't clear from the replay that it happened that way. Perhaps that is their escape clause here, but every single play should be reviewable. What's the point in having replay challenges if it doesn't apply to every possible play in the game? The NFL has always found some way to handicap the replay challenge.

[RendeR]

If the ball was touching the eagles player when he was oob the play is dead too


Well he wasn't touching it WHEN he went out of bounds, so thats not the case here, the ball itself never went out either so what I tihnk they're sticking with is that the player touched the ball in flight, and they claim it went out of bounds killing the play.

Utterly terrible. And absolutely no reason that play can't be reviewed at all.

[Dr. Sak]

Intentional grounding. Not sure what took that flag so long. What the hell are these officials watching.

Officials talk to ensure there was no we in the area. Since the head referee only looks at the qb he has no idea what is going on downfield

[Tekneek]

Intentional grounding. Not sure what took that flag so long. What the hell are these officials watching.

Surprised they didn't huddle together to then announce that they've blown another call.

[RendeR]

Just want to take a moment to say, WOW, go Cardinals, I really wasn't expecting them to play at this level.

[bhlloy]

It should be reviewable, but I thought it pretty clearly touched the Philly player in the leg while he was out of bounds. Tough play but don't see how you can really blame the officials. Just another wierd rule book quirk that will get fixed in the offseason.

You would have thought by now they would have gone through the list of plays that can and can't be reviewed, and sorted this out however. Seems like every season since replay came in, we've had a couple of these WTF plays where nobody is sure why it's not reviewable.

[QuikSand]

I think this is just another manifestation of the long-standing principle that once the whistle blows, the play must be over, period. You can't have most guys stopping play, but a few still blocking pr pushing or whatnot. Basically the same thing if the officials miss a fake and think guy A gets tackled with the ball and blow the whistle... play is dead, period, even if guy B has the ball elsewhere. Whistle can't mean maybe we're done, it has to mean we're done.

[hoopsguy]

Larry Fitzgerald is having the best playoffs I've ever seen by one player.

I'm wondering what the record is for TD receptions in the playoffs (one year). I'm guessing he is closing in on this mark.

[Dr. Sak]

Well he wasn't touching it WHEN he went out of bounds, so thats not the case here, the ball itself never went out either so what I tihnk they're sticking with is that the player touched the ball in flight, and they claim it went out of bounds killing the play.

Utterly terrible. And absolutely no reason that play can't be reviewed at all.

I was just making a statement. I couldn't tell if he was or not but you must have better eyes than all of us

[Tekneek]

You would have thought by now they would have gone through the list of plays that can and can't be reviewed, and sorted this out however.

What is the rationale for not letting every play be challenged? Since you have a limited number of challenges available, it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the time involved.

[kingfc22]

Wow. That is a cheap shot if I've ever seen one

[Eaglesfan27]

Quentin Demps is an idiot.

[Dr. Sak]

Surprised they didn't huddle together to then announce that they've blown another call.

I'd love to see know it alls like you out there

[Yellow5]

Wow that was bullshit.

[Jas_lov]

The Eagles are now self destructing. They've gotten gift after gift and they're still down by 15. I guess we'll have to wait for Baltimore-Pitt to get good efforts by both teams.

[Phototropic]

It should be reviewable, but I thought it pretty clearly touched the Philly player in the leg while he was out of bounds. Tough play but don't see how you can really blame the officials. Just another wierd rule book quirk that will get fixed in the offseason.

You would have thought by now they would have gone through the list of plays that can and can't be reviewed, and sorted this out however. Seems like every season since replay came in, we've had a couple of these WTF plays where nobody is sure why it's not reviewable.

I thought it touched his arm. I hate the non-reviewable plays when the whistle blows, but I couldn't see anything to overturn the call one way or the other with any certainty.

[Eaglesfan27]

Gotta make that interception.. and that definitely wasn't a catch.

[Thomkal]

Man that was so stupid by Demps

[kingfc22]

Gotta make that interception.. and that definitely wasn't a catch.

Yes and Yes. When Warner threw it I thought it was a for sure INT.

[Northwood_DK]

I'm wondering what the record is for TD receptions in the playoffs (one year). I'm guessing he is closing in on this mark.

Jerry Rice had 6 in the 1989 playoffs but not sure if thats the record

[Tekneek]

I think this is just another manifestation of the long-standing principle that once the whistle blows, the play must be over, period.

Ah. I can see the point of that, but it would be nice if they waited to be sure. I have the impression that they have often blown the whistle based on the assumption that this play is going just the way it did the last 99 times they saw this happen. Human error from that causes mistakes to be made in just about any walk of life.

[Radii]

What is the rationale for not letting every play be challenged? Since you have a limited number of challenges available, it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the time involved.

It's exactly as Quiksand explained above. If the refs blow a play dead you can't expect all the players to continue going full speed, that gets really dangerous and would lead to some nasty injuries where someone stops at the whistle and relaxes and gets destroyed by someone else still playing full speed. Additionally you would have all kinds of game management problems where players were constantly continuing to play after the whistle, just in case. So if a play is blown dead on the field, there's just no way to review a play based on what happens afterwards.

[Radii]

I guess I don't feel as frustrated about the Panthers refusal to cover Larry Fitzgerald. The Eagles appear to not want to see him covered either.

[Tekneek]

I'd love to see know it alls like you out there

Why? Are you one of the types who says you have to be an official to be critical of one? Anyone who criticizes the President of the United States should have to be one first?

I wouldn't want to be an official for a league that doesn't want to get it right on every single play. If we got a call wrong, I would want the chance to fix it right then. Not hide behind some rule that it isn't reviewable and trot along as if all is well.

[Neuqua]

The Cardinals have pretty much played a flawless first half. Congrats to them.

[Tekneek]

It's exactly as Quiksand explained above.

I didn't think about the whistle blows the play dead part of the argument until I read Quiksand's response and replied to it.

[ISiddiqui]

I guess I don't feel as frustrated about the Panthers refusal to cover Larry Fitzgerald. The Eagles appear to not want to see him covered either.

I'm guessing it is less of a refusal than an inability ;).

[Thomkal]

god my Cards are 30 mins away from the Super Bowl-unbelievable

[Tekneek]

I'm guessing it is less of a refusal than an inability ;).

It appears to be much more difficult to do than it seems.

[Radii]

I'm guessing it is less of a refusal than an inability ;).

Perhaps on some plays, but if that was entirely the case I would at least expect to see two defensive backs in Fitzgerald's dust on occasion instead of just one with no help anywhere in sight. :D

[SirFozzie]

A long way from when the Cardinals quit in the snowstorm against the Pats, huh Thomkal? :D

[Danny]

Despite not having the longevity of others, I think Kurt Warner is putting himself over the top in regards to getting into the hall of fame.

[bhlloy]

I didn't think about the whistle blows the play dead part of the argument until I read Quiksand's response and replied to it.

Yeah, me either. Of course that makes sense.

I'm still a big proponent of the refs swallowing their whistles until they are 100% sure however. If the ref in this situations isn't willing to bet his career that he saw the ball go out of bounds, he shouldn't blow the damn whistle. There should be a league mandate to that effect. Players get hurt in many worse situations (free plays on offside, fair catch punts etc..), I don't think letting them work the call out on the field is going to be armageddon.

[Dr. Sak]

Why? Are you one of the types who says you have to be an official to be critical of one? Anyone who criticizes the President of the United States should have to be one first?

I wouldn't want to be an official for a league that doesn't want to get it right on every single play. If we got a call wrong, I would want the chance to fix it right then. Not hide behind some rule that it isn't reviewable and trot along as if all is well.

The rules are the rules. The whistle sounded and when that happens the play ends. Right or wrong that is the rule.

You get the best view of the call and don't have to make a split second decision; you sit there and get to see replays then make a comment on the call. Then when they wait to make the correct call you bitch about them taking their time. So what do you want them to do? Make the call right away and then mess it up so that you can bitch some more?

I will never bitch about an official making a wrong judgement call because we all see plays differently. If they interpret a rule wrong then it is a problem. The RULE states when the whistle blows the play is dead. See Ed Hoculi earlier this year, you don't think if he had one play in his entire life he'd want to have over again it wouldn't be the one in the SD/Denver game?

They make mistakes too. I thought there was a PI call on Avant, but hey sometimes it doesn't get called.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, me either. Of course that makes sense.

I'm still a big proponent of the refs swallowing their whistles until they are 100% sure however. If the ref in this situations isn't willing to bet his career that he saw the ball go out of bounds, he shouldn't blow the damn whistle. There should be a league mandate to that effect. Players get hurt in many worse situations (free plays on offside, fair catch punts etc..), I don't think letting them work the call out on the field is going to be armageddon.

yeah. absolutely.

[Dr. Sak]

Also, the Cards really have Jim Johnson's number. Gotta take my hats off to them, they played a superb first half.

[MrDNA]

I have to admit, I didn't think Arizona would even beat Atlanta, let alone BLOW OUT what I thought were superior teams. If they win today, I hope like heck they go on and win the whole thing.

[bhlloy]

Let me clarify my comments a bit in light of Dr. Sak's post (which I think makes some pretty good points) Of course referees are going to make mistakes. Nobody expects them to be perfect.

However, my perception is that right now, the prevailing attitude is "if I think it's a dead play, but I'm not sure, blow it dead asap". I'd like that to change to "I think it's a dead play but I'm not sure, let's see what happens on the field and let replay fix it"

[ISiddiqui]

Perhaps on some plays, but if that was entirely the case I would at least expect to see two defensive backs in Fitzgerald's dust on occasion instead of just one with no help anywhere in sight. :D

Well, with Boldin healthy and playing, you really double Fitzgerald at your own risk. And remember, you say you may want to take the chance, but Boldin is a Top 10 receiver in his own right.

[BrianD]

Yeah, me either. Of course that makes sense.

I'm still a big proponent of the refs swallowing their whistles until they are 100% sure however. If the ref in this situations isn't willing to bet his career that he saw the ball go out of bounds, he shouldn't blow the damn whistle. There should be a league mandate to that effect. Players get hurt in many worse situations (free plays on offside, fair catch punts etc..), I don't think letting them work the call out on the field is going to be armageddon.

If you tell refs to only make calls that are reviewable, you might as well take them off the field altogether. They are there to make the calls they see, and the challenge process will correct as many mistakes as possible.

[Neuqua]

Also, the Cards really have Jim Johnson's number. Gotta take my hats off to them, they played a superb first half.

+1

I don't have a dog in this race, just rooted for the Cardinals cuz of Boldin doing so well for me in fantasy, but I've been really impressed with their first half game plan today.

[bhlloy]

If you tell refs to only make calls that are reviewable, you might as well take them off the field altogether. They are there to make the calls they see, and the challenge process will correct as many mistakes as possible.

Not sure how you got that from my post. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

[Dr. Sak]

However, my perception is that right now, the prevailing attitude is "if I think it's a dead play, but I'm not sure, blow it dead asap". I'd like that to change to "I think it's a dead play but I'm not sure, let's see what happens on the field and let replay fix it"

Right, no doubt he should've swallowed the whistle. Stuff like that happens, but when it is followed up by them trying to get a call right and taking their time only to have someone complain about that is when it gets annoying.

[Thomkal]

A long way from when the Cardinals quit in the snowstorm against the Pats, huh Thomkal? :D

Light years away Fozz, just unbelievable how they have come on in the playoffs.

[Comey]

It is painstakingly easy to see what the Cardinals are doing. The Eagles are not doing a good job of disguising their blitzes. Kurt Warner is throwing it to the blitz, where there is a lack of coverage. It is painful to watch, and stunned that adjustments have not been made.

The first possession of the second half is the ballgame. Eagles have to get a touchdown to have a shot of dragging themselves back in the game.

[Comey]

By the way, the Cardinals deserve every piece of praise for their play in the first half. They outplayed the Eagles in every way, shape, and form.

[Thomkal]

the head of the referrees said the ball was clearly in bounds and that the refs at the game missed the call

[BrianD]

Not sure how you got that from my post. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

No, I get what you are saying. At NFL speeds though, there isn't time to see everything perfectly and to evaluate the level of certainty before making a call. The ref that blew the whistle on the kickoff believed he saw the play exactly as he called it. Finding out later you are wrong doesn't mean that you weren't certain when you made the call.

[Comey]

Double dola (probably not at this point)--

That no-call on Avant (the no-PI call) has played *huge*, given how the rest of the half has shaken out. I am not at all sure the Eagles would be in the game if that call had happened...but the way things have played out since that third down, that no-call was HUGE.

[BrianD]

the head of the referrees said the ball was clearly in bounds and that the refs at the game missed the call

I hard that too on the halftime show. I would agree that the ball clearly landed in bounds, but I disagree that it clearly didn't hit the Eagle after the bounce. The only thing an allowed Cardinal challenge would have done in the case was change it from Eagles ball on the 26 to Eagles ball on the 40 after a kickoff out of bounds penalty.

[Northwood_DK]

That got to hurt.

[Thomkal]

yes! another TD and I think this game is over

[Comey]

Good game, Arizona. Good luck in the SB.

This Eagles' era has to be one of the most frustrating in the history of the league...right up there with the 90s Buffalo teams, the 80s Broncos teams (probably more the Browns), and the 70s Vikings squads. Usually a good team year in and year out, get deep into the playoffs when they're there, and no payoff to show for it.

Sigh. The Phillies' win seems so long ago. Hell, my trip to the Meadowlands last week seems forever in the past.

[Thomkal]

oh man, too bad there Boldin would have been gone

[Tekneek]

Right, no doubt he should've swallowed the whistle. Stuff like that happens, but when it is followed up by them trying to get a call right and taking their time only to have someone complain about that is when it gets annoying.

My comment was made out of frustration over the bad kickoff call. I've made it abundantly clear that I want the right calls made, and I wouldn't care if getting it right made the game take a lot longer either.

[Thomkal]

crap, it was looking awfully good there when it was 3rd and 19

[Thomkal]

thanks akers!

[Eaglesfan27]

Good game, Arizona. Good luck in the SB.

This Eagles' era has to be one of the most frustrating in the history of the league...right up there with the 90s Buffalo teams, the 80s Broncos teams (probably more the Browns), and the 70s Vikings squads. Usually a good team year in and year out, get deep into the playoffs when they're there, and no payoff to show for it.

Sigh. The Phillies' win seems so long ago. Hell, my trip to the Meadowlands last week seems forever in the past.

This game isn't over yet. But, I do agree with your earlier posts. The no-call on the Avant play where there was clear PI was huge and I agree with your post that the Cards deserve all of the credit for a great 1st half.

Oh yeah, that Akers kick really hurts.

[Suburban Rhythm]

My kids are watching Blue Clues...so I am just following along online on CBS until the Steelers start.

The description for the last play:

Last Play: D.Akers kicks -33 yards from PHI 35 to PHI 2, out of bounds.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I am trying to make up in my head what could have possibly happened...and i got nothing.

[Neuqua]

Here come the Eagles

[Thomkal]

now that's the defense I expected from the Eagles. Cards O-Line has gotta stay tough

[Eaglesfan27]

He kicked it out of bounds at the Cards 2 yard line.

[Comey]

This game isn't over yet. But, I do agree with your earlier posts. The no-call on the Avant play where there was clear PI was huge and I agree with your post that the Cards deserve all of the credit for a great 1st half.

Oh yeah, that Akers kick really hurts.

I am attempting the "reverse psychology" method. I believe you should know that well. ; )

So far, I think it's working. Because, you know, I have a direct effect on this game.

[MrDNA]

Where did this Eagles passrush come from? We've got a game again, fellas!

[RendeR]

I hard that too on the halftime show. I would agree that the ball clearly landed in bounds, but I disagree that it clearly didn't hit the Eagle after the bounce. The only thing an allowed Cardinal challenge would have done in the case was change it from Eagles ball on the 26 to Eagles ball on the 40 after a kickoff out of bounds penalty.


This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.

Replay of the play could have easily corrected this and gotten the call right.

Its just a matter of removing the loophole of "not reviewable"


and Sak, no one has complained about the time it takes to get it right, at least not in this thread that I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that into the equation. This is the playoffs, they need to get it right.

[Eaglesfan27]

I am attempting the "reverse psychology" method. I believe you should know that well. ; )

So far, I think it's working. Because, you know, I have a direct effect on this game.

Ahh, in that case carry on, please. :D

[Eaglesfan27]

McNabb is looking more relaxed and accurate this drive.

[JW]

That blown call has soured me on the game. RendeR has it right. Either way, it should have been Cardinals' ball. And I don't really care for either of these teams, but now I am 100% behind the Cards.

[Eaglesfan27]

YES!!!! McNabb to Celek!!

[Thomkal]

sigh Cards apparantly thought the game was over at halftime

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.
It looked to me that the ball did contact the Philadelphia player's hip while he was out of bounds. I am not sure they could've overturned the call.

[Eaglesfan27]

David Akers is killing the Eagles now.

[SackAttack]

sigh Cards apparantly thought the game was over at halftime

So did you, in fairness. :D

[Izulde]

Impressive. We've got ourselves a game now.

[Thomkal]

wow a missed xp

[Comey]

Tough to kick the laces.

[Thomkal]

So did you, in fairness. :D

Nope, all I said was that they were 30 mins away from the Superbowl, not that it was a done deal., I'm a Cardinal fan afterall, I've seen them pull defeat from victory too many times to count

[RendeR]

It looked to me that the ball did contact the Philadelphia player's hip while he was out of bounds. I am not sure they could've overturned the call.


The ball was in free fall after passing his fingertips before his foot ever went out of bounds, it never came near his body itself. The only thing that could have physically touched the ball was his fingertips.

Not sure how anyone sees anything beyond that from those two angles.

[BrianD]

This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.

Replay of the play could have easily corrected this and gotten the call right.

Its just a matter of removing the loophole of "not reviewable"


and Sak, no one has complained about the time it takes to get it right, at least not in this thread that I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that into the equation. This is the playoffs, they need to get it right.

I think this is an overstatement. Both angles of the ball after the bounce was inconclusive at best. I thought it touched the Eagle while he was out of bounds, but I could see arguments both ways. Had the review been allowed, it had at least a fair chance of standing. It may even have been confirmed.

Again though, what is the alternative? Don't blow the ball dead when you believe it is dead? Allow a review after a play has been blown dead? Create a rule that if the ball has been blown dead, any action that couldn't be stopped immediately after the whistle can still be called part of the play? You create problems any way you choose.

[SackAttack]

Nope, all I said was that they were 30 mins away from the Superbowl, not that it was a done deal., I'm a Cardinal fan afterall, I've seen them pull defeat from victory too many times to count

Which is why you of all people should have known better than to invoke the Super Bowl before they had actually cemented their trip. Heck, you also said a touchdown on one of their early 3rdQ drives would seal it, and then they didn't score.

This one is totally your fault if they lose. ;)

[BrianD]

The ball was in free fall after passing his fingertips before his foot ever went out of bounds, it never came near his body itself. The only thing that could have physically touched the ball was his fingertips.

Not sure how anyone sees anything beyond that from those two angles.

It was after the bounce. The ball looked to miss his fingers, land in bounds, and bounce up into his hip/arm. I thought the rotation of the ball changed after that possible touch which is why I thought it hit him.

[Suburban Rhythm]

He kicked it out of bounds at the Cards 2 yard line.

According to that it was out at the Philly 2.
A -33 yard kick.

[BrianD]

Which is why you of all people should have known better than to invoke the Super Bowl before they had actually cemented their trip. Heck, you also said a touchdown on one of their early 3rdQ drives would seal it, and then they didn't score.

This one is totally your fault if they lose. ;)

Nah, blame Jas_lov for calling the game. He did the same thing to Seattle against the Packers last year.

[RendeR]

I think this is an overstatement. Both angles of the ball after the bounce was inconclusive at best. I thought it touched the Eagle while he was out of bounds, but I could see arguments both ways. Had the review been allowed, it had at least a fair chance of standing. It may even have been confirmed.

Again though, what is the alternative? Don't blow the ball dead when you believe it is dead? Allow a review after a play has been blown dead? Create a rule that if the ball has been blown dead, any action that couldn't be stopped immediately after the whistle can still be called part of the play? You create problems any way you choose.


How does it create any problems? They blew the call dead, fine, now get on the booth and look at what actually happened, figure out what SHOULD have been called and put the ball in the hands of the team it should belong to, very simple really, they do it all the time on fumbles and receptions and interceptions. Why should a kickoff be any different?

I watched the DVR of the braodcast a few times now, I don't see from either angle how you can think it touched anything when his foot was out of bounds, as his foot comes down the ball is almost on the ground and about to bounce back towards the field. *shrug* Either way it should have been reviewed at the least, wether they overturned it or not.

[BrianD]

How does it create any problems? They blew the call dead, fine, now get on the booth and look at what actually happened, figure out what SHOULD have been called and put the ball in the hands of the team it should belong to, very simple really, they do it all the time on fumbles and receptions and interceptions. Why should a kickoff be any different?

What do you think should have been called? Action after the whistle? You don't see that creating problems?

I watched the DVR of the braodcast a few times now, I don't see from either angle how you can think it touched anything when his foot was out of bounds, as his foot comes down the ball is almost on the ground and about to bounce back towards the field. *shrug* Either way it should have been reviewed at the least, wether they overturned it or not.

Try watching past what the ball was "about" to do and see what it actually did.

[RendeR]

Granted I am taking advantage of my ability bto re-watch the replays, so perhaps thats something not everyone in the discussion has access too atm.

[Philliesfan980]

Ugh, next year Eagles, fly out on a Thursday morning rather than Friday night. Jeff - I know you're really cheap and all, but spring for the hotel rooms for an extra few nights.

[Eaglesfan27]

I love that 4th quarter Post Season stat they just showed for McNabb for all of those haters who want to say he is a choke artist. Now, time for him to continue that great trend of 4th quarter play this post season.

[RendeR]

What do you think should have been called? Action after the whistle? You don't see that creating problems?


The whistle was being blown AS the ball was recovered by the cardinals. just because they blew it dead doesn't mean they can't see what happened at the same time. good god why is that so hard to see?


Try watching past what the ball was "about" to do and see what it actually did.

Ok this is just an asshole remark, fuck you too, stick to the discussion. The ball bounced back into play well past the player in question, the only thing that could have touched the ball at all was his fingertips.

[kingfc22]

Oh my!

[larrymcg421]

Holy shit!

[Eaglesfan27]

DeSean Jackson!!!!

[Comey]

OH MY GOD

[Jas_lov]

Nah, blame Jas_lov for calling the game. He did the same thing to Seattle against the Packers last year.

LOL, I've gone and done it again. And now Philly has the lead! Sorry Cardinals fans.

[Thomkal]

unfuckingbelievable

[Pumpy Tudors]

Granted I am taking advantage of my ability bto re-watch the replays, so perhaps thats something not everyone in the discussion has access too atm.
Just so you don't think I'm ducking out on the conversation after making one comment, BrianD is saying pretty much exactly everything I would say regarding that kickoff play.

The ball bounced back toward the field and may have hit the Philadelphia player's leg along the way. The trajectory of the ball appeared the change as it got up near the player's hip. It was a very close play, and I can't say for sure whether it touched him or not, but I don't think they would've overturned it.

[Lathum]

jesus

[Noop]

I am impressed by Philly.

[Chief Rum]

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.

[ISiddiqui]

The wheels on the bus for Arizona done fell off

[MrDNA]

Oh, Cards fans, I am so sorry. It's not over yet.

[Noop]

RendeR do you ever get off your high horse?

[RendeR]

Just to be perfectly clear here, this is what my review of the replays shows me:

Ball comes down on the kickoff, eagles player stretches his arm out to the ball, he may or may not touch it with his fingers at this point. Player continues out of bounds. The ball is NOT contacting him in either angle as he goes out of bounds. The ball bounces IN bounds and goes towards the center of the field where a cardinal player falls on it.

Thats the whole play. Even if you decide he touches it with his hands he is still in bounds at the time, so the ball is still live.


The refs were wrong, blew the whistle and killed the play.

Replay could have fixed it. Thats all I'm saying. based on whats on the tape it SHOULD have been Cardinals ball somewhere near the 25-26 yard line.

[SackAttack]

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.

Arizona is Snowbird Country.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Just to be perfectly clear here, this is what my review of the replays shows me:

Ball comes down on the kickoff, eagles player stretches his arm out to the ball, he may or may not touch it with his fingers at this point. Player continues out of bounds. The ball is NOT contacting him in either angle as he goes out of bounds. The ball bounces IN bounds and goes towards the center of the field where a cardinal player falls on it.
It's the bolded part that I disagree with.

[RendeR]

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.


Those weren't cheers.

[Eaglesfan27]

Except that maybe the Eagles dive on the ball if a whistle hadn't blown. You can't go and change it as Quiksand rightly pointed out because guys have to stop playing once the whistle blows.

[Lathum]

:popcorn:

[RendeR]

It's the bolded part that I disagree with.


From the above/midfield camera angle you can see space all around the ball after it passes his hand and bounces back up, no contact there, at that point the player is off the field and the ball is on it, how can he be touching it?

[BrianD]

The whistle was being blown AS the ball was recovered by the cardinals. just because they blew it dead doesn't mean they can't see what happened at the same time. good god why is that so hard to see?

Because when you see the ball go out of bounds (or think you see it), your mechanics as a ref change. You go for your whistle and either run to mark the spot or potentially throw the bag.

In a situation like this, do you want the refs to decide what action in simultaneous with the whistle and what is after the whistle? The old referee maxim is that the whistle doesn't kill the play, the action kills the play and the whistle just announces that the play is dead.

Ok this is just an asshole remark, fuck you too, stick to the discussion. The ball bounced back into play well past the player in question, the only thing that could have touched the ball at all was his fingertips.

You are the one who talked about what the ball was clearly about to do. While you are going through and rewatching your DVR replays, listen to the commentary. Even the announcers talked about it looking like the ball hit his forearm after the bounce. You are allowed to have your opinion on what you saw, but I don't believe you can dismiss the possibility that you are wrong. Watch the ball and watch the rotation of the ball. You may be right in your view, but it was questionable enough to not allow certainty.

[Danny]

I don't see them overturning that kickoff play either. It was not conclusive that the ball didn't touch the player while he was out of bounds. I think whatever called was made on the field does not get overturned in that case.

That said, can we let it go and focus on whats happening now?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm so glad we have Jim Johnson. The adjustments him and his staff have made in the 2nd half have been amazing.

If this is short, I wonder if the Cardinal punt?

[Pumpy Tudors]

From the above/midfield camera angle you can see space all around the ball after it passes his hand and bounces back up, no contact there, at that point the player is off the field and the ball is on it, how can he be touching it?
I don't know, but the ball's trajectory appeared to change as it passed his hip. The only thing that could cause that to happen is contact.

[BrianD]

If the Eagles manage to win this game, I'm going to love seeing the explanation in the Divisional Championship in Pictures.

[mauchow]

I personally thought the ball hit the player while his foot was out of bounds. The spiral of the ball changed because it hit his arm. It was a tough call but shit happens.

[Northwood_DK]

That was close

[Radii]

Except that maybe the Eagles dive on the ball if a whistle hadn't blown. You can't go and change it as Quiksand rightly pointed out because guys have to stop playing once the whistle blows.

Yeah, I don't really understand why that play warranted discussion other than "oh, unreviewable, right, its in the rule book, next play."

Even if we want to play what if, I don't see why we bother here. Arizona got the ball back and was in philly territory with ~1 minute left in the half. They had more than enough time to score and couldn't.

[Noop]

Fitzgerald has to be the best WR in football; that guy is a beast.

[Eaglesfan27]

Desperately need a Kurt fumble here...

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think this game will turn out to be the exact opposite of the AFC championship game. This one is exciting, the ball is moving up and down the field, we've seen a trick play, a quarterback catching his own pass, a receiver dominating the first half, a controversial kickoff play, a missed extra point, a huge comeback, and there's still almost half a quarter to go. Although the rivalry aspect of the AFC game is interesting, I wouldn't be surprised to see under 300 total yards of offense in that whole game.

[Noop]

Like I said pure beast.

[hoopsguy]

Desperately need a Kurt TD pass here ...

[Noop]

I think this game will turn out to be the exact opposite of the AFC championship game. This one is exciting, the ball is moving up and down the field, we've seen a trick play, a quarterback catching his own pass, a receiver dominating the first half, a controversial kickoff play, a missed extra point, a huge comeback, and there's still almost half a quarter to go. Although the rivalry aspect of the AFC game is interesting, I wouldn't be surprised to see under 300 total yards of offense in that whole game.

Ed Reed alone is worth the price of admission.

[Radii]

What a HUGE drive by the Cardinals.

[mauchow]

Incredible game, btw.

[Young Drachma]

Larry is serious

[Scoobz0202]

C'mon Arizona..

Don't throw a pick in the endzone..Don't throw a pick in the endzone...

[Pumpy Tudors]

Ed Reed alone is worth the price of admission.
This is a good point. I wonder how much the Steelers will even bother throwing the ball. The weather here is pretty awful today, and Roethlisberger is so hit-and-miss that I'd probably keep things really safe for him. Then again, I'm not an offensive coordinator, so we'll see.

[Noop]

C'mon Arizona..

Don't throw a pick in the endzone..Don't throw a pick in the endzone...

Got to try positive reinforcement like cmon Arizona score 6 points in the end zone.

[Danny]

I expected Kobe to pop out when that GH commercial started. That was a pleasant surprise.

[Eaglesfan27]

I expected Kobe to pop out when that GH commercial started. That was a pleasant surprise.


Yeah, there have been some good commercials today.

[Chief Rum]

Those weren't cheers.

Cheers must sound different in Buffalo.

[Thomkal]

yes!

[BrianD]

Nice safe play for a score.

[Northwood_DK]

dident see that play comming

[Chief Rum]

That...was a great play.

[ISiddiqui]

And the Cards answer with an impressive drive!

[Eaglesfan27]

Darn. Heck of a play by Hightower and the Cardinals.

[Tasan]

Wow. This game is a ton of fun, especially when I don't have a do-or-die rooting interest.

[Noop]

Well Donovan McNabb has a chance to cement his legacy with the next drive.

[Chief Rum]

Nice safe play for a score.

Safe play in that it wasn't going to be intercepted, yes. For a score? No. That play would have only netted two or three yards normally. Instead, Hightower manned up and made it a 6-er. Kudos to him.

[mauchow]

Interestingly enough, I believe the time out call there by Reid is bad decision. Let Arizona have to make a play-call in 15 seconds rather than two minutes. Worst thing that could have happened was that the Cardinals would have scored on the 3rd down play, which HAS to be a pass, so its most likely a touchdown or an incomplete pass with the clock stopping with over two minutes to play. Take your two timeouts and go for the win. Now you've given the Cardinals a chance at getting the ball back again after the Eagles possible score.

So, the Cardinals scored just now. 3 minutes to go. That gives the Eagles plenty of time. If they do a great two minute drill and score in two minutes.. that leaves the Cardinals with their timeouts and some possible time to get a field goal to win it anyways.

Maybe I'm just overthinking this way too much.

[Thomkal]

well I did say I wanted a close game :)

[ISiddiqui]

Nice two pointer as well.

[Tasan]

Well Donovan McNabb has a chance to cement-shoe his legacy with the next drive.

Fixed that for ya.

[Noop]

Wow. This game is a ton of fun, especially when I don't have a do-or-die rooting interest.

:+1:

If the Dolphins had a game like this I would be too tense to enjoy it until it was over.

[hoopsguy]

37 members + 6 guests in thread.

[Racer]

Biggest defensive series in Arizona Cardinals history coming up.

[SirFozzie]

Donovan McNabb and the two minute drill. Is it bad to say that this won't end well?

[Travis]

Odds on this one going to OT? Be kind of ironic given McNabb's comments after the infamous tie earlier this season.

[Alan T]

Wow. This game is a ton of fun, especially when I don't have a do-or-die rooting interest.


Same here, I can't think of many other possible NFC matchups that I could care less one way or another who wins. So this has been enjoyable to watch without any rooting interest whatso ever.

And for the kickoff that was ruled touched out of bounds from earlier in the game, add me to the list of people who thought it did hit him while he was out of bounds. I was suprised at halftime when they said the head of NFL referees stated so boldly that it was probably the wrong call.

[BrianD]

Safe play in that it wasn't going to be intercepted, yes. For a score? No. That play would have only netted two or three yards normally. Instead, Hightower manned up and made it a 6-er. Kudos to him.

Sorry, I meant a safe play that went for a score. I figured they would try to force something and get picked. As it was, great blocking let Hightower build up a head of steam before first contact at the 2.

[Philliesfan980]

Call me the typical negative Philadelphia guy, but I don't see this ending well for the Eagles. This is when McNabb is at his worst.

[Eaglesfan27]

I feel good about McNabb putting together a great drive here.

First play was Westbrook's fault for the incompletion. Nice catch there by Celek.

[Tasan]

Cellek should grow a mustache. Just because.

[Eaglesfan27]

Westbrook makes up for it there. Nice catch and run!

[BrianD]

McNabb is doing well so far. A couple of questionable passes, but all close enough to let players make plays.

[Chief Rum]

Odds on this one going to OT? Be kind of ironic given McNabb's comments after the infamous tie earlier this season.

If it does, do you think he asks someone on the sideline to be sure?

[Tasan]

Wait I think he may have one. Is that just a stache or is it a goate+

[Philliesfan980]

I'll take a TD anyway I can get it here, but I hope they don't score too quick.