The Wrestler

[Sun Tzu]

So, this last friday night the wife and I had our date night. We had a nice little dinner in San Fran, and then went to the 10:30 showing of The Wrestler @ the Metreon. The theater was nearly empty (which we prefer). Now, I grew up watching wrestling so I knew I was going to be able to connect to this movie in one way or another...but my wife can't stand it and thinks it's an absolute joke. In fact the only reason we decided on this movie was becasue of the rave reviews Rourke had gotten for the role. What happened between 10:30pm and 12:30am was amazing.

This has got to be one of the most powerful films I have ever seen. Throughout the movie you truly feel like you're living his life with him. You can't help it. Now i've been known to get emotional in powerful movies before (qeue up a SF related response now), but I can usually hold back in the theater. This was an exception. But the amazing thing was this. I looked over at the lady through blurred eyes, and saw tears streaming down her face too...in fact she was emotional the entire walk back to the car too.

Whether you grew up with wrestling, or you think it's a complete joke, don't be turned off by the title. This is not a film about Wrestling. <i>The Wrestler</i> is gripping story about a mans life. At first he's hard to understand...you don't quite get him. However...as you follow him around...you start to understand him, you really start to feel everything he feels, all the way until the end which I can only describe as beautiful.

If you've seen it, then you probably know exactly what I'm talking about. If you haven't, I implore you to take a couple hours out of your life to see a movie that is touching and real.

[DeToxRox]

Yup. Sensational. Rourke better win an Oscar for this because it was one of the best performances in a film I've ever seen.

[DaddyTorgo]

noted. i will have to go see this.

[Maple Leafs]

Saw this on Friday. Good movie, great performance. And Sun is right, the movie isn't really about wrestling. If anything, hardcore wrestling fans might be disappointed that there's not enough behind-the-scenes stuff.

One question for those that have seen it... not looking for a long discussion since it's a spoiler, just wondering yes or no.

Did you get the impression that Rourke dies at the end of the movie?

It's certainly not made clear, but the way the crowd noise goes from a cheer to scattered boos right before the credits seems to hint at it, no?

[DeToxRox]

Saw this on Friday. Good movie, great performance. And Sun is right, the movie isn't really about wrestling. If anything, hardcore wrestling fans might be disappointed that there's not enough behind-the-scenes stuff.

One question for those that have seen it... not looking for a long discussion since it's a spoiler, just wondering yes or no.

Did you get the impression that Rourke dies at the end of the movie?

It's certainly not made clear, but the way the crowd noise goes from a cheer to scattered boos right before the credits seems to hint at it, no?

I think he does die, but I like how it's open ended. It was truly an awesome final scene.

[Sun Tzu]

What the...how do you do that spoiler thing?

[DeToxRox]

"[spoiler"] ["/spoiler]"

Without the " obv

[Chief Rum]

I saw this last night, and it is very good. It wasn't in the wow, phenomenal range with me, though. It was memorable, and it has kept me thinking about it, so it's at least an 8. Rourke did do a great job with the role, and I was touched by some scenes, and laughed at others ("spring chicken", lol), but it just didn't hit the "wow" level with me that it seems to with others. I would probably put it at an 8.5/10 if this were the movie thread.

It's among the better films I have seen this year, but for sure, it still ranks behind Dark Knight and Slumdog Millionaire on a list of my best movies for 2008.

The thinking part about this film to me is what gives it cred. It really has got me thinking more than most movies do, about the choices people make and how they affect their lives, and how important other people and connections and being loved is to most people.

Maple Leaf:

I don't have an answer for you, but, IMO, he has to die at the end, and I think that's what they're hinting at. The story is much more poignant for having that be the end. I don't think the movie even really needed to show it (and glad they didn't), it was sorta assumed.

[Sun Tzu]

Got it, tnx detox.

I think they leave it open for everyones own interpretation. My innitial thought was that he died, and that the end of the movie was some kind of f'ed up happy ending...but I've really been thinking about it in either way. Whether he lives, dies, or goes into a coma, it's still beautiful/tragic.

[Scoobz0202]

I think he dies. After thinking about it I felt he did this match not with the sole intention of dieing, but understanding that it was a good possibility. Even though he tried everything in a power, in the end, he lost his daughter. He realized that there was a slim chance anything would work with Cassidy. I felt that as the match progressed, and he started feeling weaker, he knew what was coming. By looking up at the curtain and seeing Cassidy gone, that was his final decision. All he had in his life now was wrestling, and without that, why go on?

[Noop]

Maresi Tomei is beyond sexy.

[RedKingGold]

Does Hulk Hogan make a cameo?

[MizzouRah]

I've heard nothing but great things about this movie. Can't wait to see it!

[Calis]

Did you get the impression that Rourke dies at the end of the movie?

It's certainly not made clear, but the way the crowd noise goes from a cheer to scattered boos right before the credits seems to hint at it, no?

I think the way the camera works throughout this movie also helps me lean towards saying he died. We see the camera following him through most of the movie in almost a chase cam, like a 3rd person game. It helps put you in his shoes, and connect with the character. We see almost everything through his viewpoint, including the screen cutting when he has his heartattack and coming back when he wakes up. The cut to black at the end then could be the end of it all together. I like that it's not spelled out though and you can change it. Aronofsky did much the same thing with The Fountain which you could interpret many different ways in the end.

Really enjoyed the movie. It had weakpoints and I wouldn't say it's my favorite of the year, but it's definitely in the running and Rourke's performance is far and away my favorite. I've loved basically everything Aronofsky has done, but I especially loved him going for a simpler more straightforward story. Good stuff.

[Atocep]

Fantastic movie. Even if you don't watch wrestling (I don't) I strongly recommend it.

I didn't think he died in the ring during that match. After what he said to Marisa Tomei's character before going out in the ring I got the impression that he accepted the fact that his life belonged in the ring and he was likely going to die at some point in the ring, but not necessarily there. I pictured him going back to living his life the way he had prior to the heart attack before eventually dying in the ring at some point down the raod.

I'm probably reading too much into the open ending, but I thought accepting him dying at the end was too easy for a rather complicated film.

[Maple Leafs]

Re: ending

I generally don't like endings that let "you" decide. I like to see an ending to a story.

In this case, though, I really think it works. Because once you start having the familiar "did he or didn't he" argument with yourself, you immedialtey realize that it doesn't matter. After all, is there any doubt that wrestling was going to kill Randy, and soon? If he lived through that match, there would have been another one, and another.

He had a chance to walk away from the business and build some sort of other life, and he was dead as soon as he went back in the ring. Having that driven home somehow gives the film more impact than seeing it happen.

[Calis]

Re: ending


He had a chance to walk away from the business and build some sort of other life, and he was dead as soon as he went back in the ring. Having that driven home somehow gives the film more impact than seeing it happen.

How many more spoiler tagged posts until we just make it a spoiler thread? :)

Agreed. There is no way that he stops wrestling. You can argue that he doesn't die at the end, but it's inevitable and it's happening soon. The movie revolved around Randy and his inability to separate the wrestler from the person. He was always Randy. He didn't know how to be anything else. You contrast this with Pam/Cassidy and you see her focus on separating the stripper from the person, and ultimately she chooses the person.

Randy surviving or quitting wrestling in the future lessens the impact of the film imo.

The daughter and her portion was imo the weakest part of the film. She wasn't developed much as a character, and I think the bonding scene with the dancing was the one part of the movie that really didn't need to be there.

[Maple Leafs]

Calis...


She wasn't developed much as a character
Given that the whole movie is told from Randy's viewpoint, isn't that the only way she could be?

[Senator]

I thought it was a great movie but I never considered crying once.

[digamma]

All three of the leads put on great acting performances, but the movie as a whole fell flat for me. Way too predictable and way too cliche for me.

Did appreciate the final scene, but overall, the movie was pretty blah for me, even considering the acting jobs.

[dervack]

Dig,

Have you seen Beyond the Mat? The reason why I ask is because, to me, this movie is almost the biography of Jake Roberts.

[BYU 14]

Dig,

Have you seen Beyond the Mat? The reason why I ask is because, to me, this movie is almost the biography of Jake Roberts.

I haven't seen it yet, cause it is only at 1 theater in Phoenix now about 40 miles from my house, but watching the trailers made me think totally of Jake. If the screenplay was loosely based on Jake, they couldn't have picked a better subject. I am really looking forward to seeing this one.

[The Afoci]

I thought it was a great movie but I never considered crying once.

Is it because the government didn't pay you too?







Really?

[Dutch]

Great movie, I was definately moved by it.

In my opinion, the ending strongly suggested he was dead. Not neccessarily physically (though that is obviously a possability) but that his life as he wanted it or knew it was finished. He (and we) basically realized all at once that he was a maimed one-trick pony. I was almost hoping he did die so he didn't have to go through anymore anguish. A very well done movie, I thought.

[Senator]

Is it because the government didn't pay you too?







Really?

I have no clue what you are talking about.

[Noop]

Is it because the government didn't pay you too?







Really?

When did you come back?

[BYU 14]

Saw it this afternoon and I wouldn't say it was one of the best movies I have ever seen, but it is definitely very, very good.

I give it an 8 and I think it actually might have benefited from another 15 minutes or so. I would have liked the film to have explored more of his past relationship with his daughter, though the scenes they did have were quite powerful.

The performances by Rourke and Tomei were incredible and you could almost feel the anguish he went through in his day to day existence. I think any of us who have played competitive sports in our lives and sometimes miss the "glory" days can identify with his struggles. :)

I really liked the ending as well and Rourke deserves all the acclaim he is getting.

Thumbs up from me.

[Sun Tzu]

This came out on DVD today...

If you haven't seen it, it's at your local Blockbuster/Hollywood Video/Best Buy on the shelf.

[Oilers9911]

Watched this over the weekend. Awesome movie. Mickey Rourke was incredible. As stated above, even if you are not a wrestling fan this is a great movie.

[AgustusM]

I saw it and liked it, although not as much as some others. I will say it was the kind of movie I reflected on and liked more after the fact. Also, while it has become entirely cliche to say so, Rourke was simply brilliant. I don't believe any other actor could have done better, or even come close. and he hit the rare accomplishment of being so believable that it was hard to believe he was even acting, it almost felt like a documentary.

Funny, it never occurred to me that he died, sure I knew he was having a heart attack, but my interpretation was him being broken down defeated, but not dying. Of course now that I have read all the others interpretations, I do think that is one of the most plausible explanations.

The one scene no one has mentioned but I absolutely loved was the first Deli scene as he really started to get into it and enjoy himself. Something about that was so humanizing and endearing.

[BYU 14]

I saw it and liked it, although not as much as some others. I will say it was the kind of movie I reflected on and liked more after the fact. Also, while it has become entirely cliche to say so, Rourke was simply brilliant. I don't believe any other actor could have done better, or even come close. and he hit the rare accomplishment of being so believable that it was hard to believe he was even acting, it almost felt like a documentary.

Funny, it never occurred to me that he died, sure I knew he was having a heart attack, but my interpretation was him being broken down defeated, but not dying. Of course now that I have read all the others interpretations, I do think that is one of the most plausible explanations.

The one scene no one has mentioned but I absolutely loved was the first Deli scene as he really started to get into it and enjoy himself. Something about that was so humanizing and endearing.



Totally agree on the second paragraph. You could almost see him thinking, gee, this isn't so bad afterall.

[Julio Riddols]

The Wrestler - See it for Rourke, buy it for Marisa.

[AgustusM]

The Wrestler - See it for Rourke, buy it for Marisa.

being old I am not normally a fan of piercings, especially in sensitive places - but damn she was sexy in that first scene.

[stevew]

Minor thing. In the hospital after he has the bypass, was the doctor calling him Mr Ram-something. If so I thought it was a cool little insight into how he got his stage name. And probably very common how guys would change their last names to something generic. Bothered me that I couldn't place the heel from the last match. Looked it up and it was Ernest the Cat Miller. The entry to the deli scene was brilliant. I thought the daughter sub plot was kind of weak. So that knocks it down about one notch below perfect. Tomei is hot for 45.

[chinaski]

Minor thing. In the hospital after he has the bypass, was the doctor calling him Mr Ram-something.

His name is Randy Robinson., I dont think it was ever told where the Ram nickname came into play. Im assuming it was just alliteration on his name. His finishing move is the Ram Jam!

Saw some cool trivia on the IMDB page.....

The movie ends with Randy coming off the top rope with the Ram Jam before going to black, and playing Bruce Springsteen's song as the credits roll. When the match was filmed at a March 2008 Ring of Honor event, Ram nailed the move and scored the pin.


and that Mickey Rouke wasnt paid for his performance, neither was Bruce Springsteen for his music.

[stevew]

The scorn at the Robin nametag leads me to believe that it is his real first name as well.

[Qwikshot]

I still get chills when he's on the top buckle at the end...

[SteveMax58]

Just saw this tonight.

I'm in agreement with those that say it was very, very good. I think because of the hype surrounding it, I may have expected more...but certainly was not dissappointed. Very entertaining. No tears for me but my wife cried during the father/daughter scenes (a bit close to home for her).

As far as his real (movie) name...his real first name was Robin, as his nametag said (and boss confirmed it came from his W4)...and his last name was Ramzinksi(spelling could be off) as the doctor called him. So, Robin Ramzinksi became Randy "The Ram" Robinson.

[Young Drachma]

I saw it with a friend this past week and was really impressed with it. I don't like wrestling much at all. But I thought it was a heck of a story (save for, like most people said the whole kid angle which seemed shoved into the story unnaturally but they needed something, I guess...) and I just think everyone involved did some really good work with it.

I especially enjoyed the random Jersey references and Tomei might have just been on the pole, but...she did her thing.

[Carman Bulldog]

Just saw this tonight.

I'm in agreement with those that say it was very, very good. I think because of the hype surrounding it, I may have expected more...but certainly was not dissappointed. Very entertaining. No tears for me but my wife cried during the father/daughter scenes (a bit close to home for her).

As far as his real (movie) name...his real first name was Robin, as his nametag said (and boss confirmed it came from his W4)...and his last name was Ramzinksi(spelling could be off) as the doctor called him. So, Robin Ramzinksi became Randy "The Ram" Robinson.

Yep, as this guy pointed out, his name is Robin Ramzinski. Randy "The Ram" Robinson is merely his ring name, although one that he appears to have adopted to "real" life.

The same way I assume that Lex Luger went by Lex as opposed to Lawrence Pfohl and would have likely cringed if people called him Lawrence or Larry.

[AgustusM]

Interesting that so many people felt the daughter sub plot landed flat. I thought it was an integral part. It felt it was a key component of his return to the ring. He tried to move on and live a normal life, but it wasn't really an option.

[Chief Rum]

Interesting that so many people felt the daughter sub plot landed flat. I thought it was an integral part. It felt it was a key component of his return to the ring. He tried to move on and live a normal life, but it wasn't really an option.

Agreed. The daughter subplot was absolutely key to the plot, to the Ram's motivations. I'm not sure how it could be done the way it is without that subplot.

[BYU 14]

Interesting that so many people felt the daughter sub plot landed flat. I thought it was an integral part. It felt it was a key component of his return to the ring. He tried to move on and live a normal life, but it wasn't really an option.

Agreed. The daughter subplot was absolutely key to the plot, to the Ram's motivations. I'm not sure how it could be done the way it is without that subplot.

I agree with both of you, but my problem with it is I felt it could have been explored in more detail. Some flashbacks to her childhood, the Daughter making him work a little harder to get back in her life initially. There is only so much time though and in the end they did the best they could with it I suppose. Definitely isn't weak for me, just not robust enough.

[Chief Rum]

I agree with both of you, but my problem with it is I felt it could have been explored in more detail. Some flashbacks to her childhood, the Daughter making him work a little harder to get back in her life initially. There is only so much time though and in the end they did the best they could with it I suppose. Definitely isn't weak for me, just not robust enough.

That's a tough choice. I like what you're thinking there, but I don't think it really fit with the "real/documentary" feel. After all, real life doesn't have flashbacks. I think they were trying to show the past through remembrances, the devotion the wrestlers showed to The Ram, the references to glories of the past, the pain in the daughter's face and voice. I think in the end the "reality" in which the movie is built up is more important to it than working up the daughter angle with flashbacks.

Now, if it could be built up using plot elements that are completely within the scope of that documentary feel, I'm all for that.

[Grammaticus]

Watched it last night. Yeah, the daughter piece was key. He said it outright to the stripper before he walked into the ring at the end. "The only place I get hurt is out there", meaning outside of the the ring.

Her (daughter) rejection of him was the main reason he said screw it and kept wrestling. Very key piece. I also think it was pretty well done within the scope of a movie. Sure I wondered more about the history of the relationship and the mom, etc. But it definately showed enough to support the overall motive and impact it was designed to do.

That was a pretty depressing movie.

If you rent it, definatly watch the extra about "in the ring". It's about 40 minutes long, but really worth it. They talk to the neighborhood style wrestlers about life and making the movie. I didn't realize there was a whole segment of wrestling like that out there. But then I really don't watch wrestling at all.

[Maple Leafs]

I thought the stuff with daughter was great. And flashbacks wouldn't have worked because the whole movie is from Randy's perspective, and he probably doesn't know/remember enough about her to have a flashback.

[JeeberD]

Bothered me that I couldn't place the heel from the last match. Looked it up and it was Ernest the Cat Miller.

In reference to this...I really haven't watched wrestling in almost 20 years, but were most of the other wrestlers in the film actual pro wrestlers? I didn't see anyone I recognized, but like I said, it's been a LONG time...

[Karlifornia]

I agree with all the people that said the daughter scenes were integral. I think I posted my little review in the the movie thread, but, yeah. I really liked this movie.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In reference to this...I really haven't watched wrestling in almost 20 years, but were most of the other wrestlers in the film actual pro wrestlers? I didn't see anyone I recognized, but like I said, it's been a LONG time...

Virtually all of them, mostly workers from the independent scene and specifically the promotion where the wrestling crowd shots & background was filmed.

Probably the most recognizable name/face among those might be former WCW midcarder/jobber Ernest "The Cat" Miller and former tag team champion Johnny Valiant. Another name you might recognize would be Afa Anoai aka Afa the Wild Samoan, who trained Rourke for his ring work. Afa's daughter Lynn Tovale Anoai also appeared in the movie credited as "the pharmacist".

[Karlifornia]

Virtually all of them, mostly workers from the independent scene and specifically the promotion where the wrestling crowd shots & background was filmed.

Probably the most recognizable name/face among those might be former WCW midcarder/jobber Ernest "The Cat" Miller and former tag team champion Johnny Valiant. Another name you might recognize would be Afa Anoai aka Afa the Wild Samoan, who trained Rourke for his ring work. Afa's daughter Lynn Tovale Anoai also appeared in the movie credited as "the pharmacist".

Don't forget the Necrobutcher. I'm not all that familiar with him, but I'm told he's a fairly big name on the indie circuit.

[JeeberD]

Don't forget the Necrobutcher. I'm not all that familiar with him, but I'm told he's a fairly big name on the indie circuit.

Was that the dude with the staple gun?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Don't forget the Necrobutcher. I'm not all that familiar with him, but I'm told he's a fairly big name on the indie circuit.

Oh absolutely, just not someone that I think Jeeber would know after not watching for "almost 20 years".

Other names that would stand out a bit above the rest of the indy crowd would include ROH's Nigel McGuinness, ROH/ex-TNA Austin Aries, TNA's Jay Lethal, ROH/ex-WWE developmental Claudio Castognoli, ex-WWE Romeo Roselli, WWE/ ex-TNA Ron Killings, ex-ECW Blue Meanie, ROH's Larry Sweeney, and CZW's John Zandig & Nick Berk.

[Sgran]

Re: daughter and ending

The daughter plot was played out perfectly. We see Randy's charm and charisma (as he works his way back into her life), the whole he's dug himself into, his longing for love, and ultimately why he's such a screw-up. The wrestling world is his family, and in the end he wants them to be with him at his deathbed.

[Sun Tzu]

There was another wrestler I saw...a black guy with funny looking dreads. His wrestling name was something Kwik, or something...I forget. He is still in really good shape, and The Ram was talking to him and another guy about the match that they had together. In fact, the guy I'm refering to even offers to buy Randy a drink and the next scene is the one where he meets the "party like a fireman" girl.

[molson]

There was another wrestler I saw...a black guy with funny looking dreads. His wrestling name was something Kwik, or something...I forget. He is still in really good shape, and The Ram was talking to them about the match that they had together. In fact, the guy I'm refering to even offers to buy Randy a drink and the next scene is the one where he meets the "party like a fireman" girl.

Sounds like Ron Killings.

[Sun Tzu]

Actually, I just looked it up. His name was K-Kwik. I think he was in the WWF for a few months, back in the Rocky Maivia "Rocky Sucks" days.

[molson]

Actually, I just looked it up. His name was K-Kwik. I think he was in the WWF for a few months, back in the Rocky Maivia "Rocky Sucks" days.

Yup, that's Killings.

He had that short run in the WWE as K-Kwik, then he was something of a big deal in TNA, and now he's back in the WWE as "R-Truth".

[Sun Tzu]

Oh...yeah that's what I meant :)

good job