Inauguration 2009, Barack Hussein Obama, 44th President of the United States

[lordscarlet]

I can't believe there isn't already an inauguration thread!

As you may or may not know, I live in downtown (well, for people that don't know dc, that's the best description -- 10 or 15 blocks from the White House). After a lot of consideration we decided to leave town for the inauguration. The madness that is likely to ensue (and has) was just beyond our level of tolerance. :) Tourists are bad enough on a regular day!

Anyway, we're in Charlottesville, VA and watching the inauguration progress unfold. The crowds on the National Mall are already insane. We have a report from a friend that they have been stuck in a subway tunnel for over 3 hours (the ride should take about 25 minutes). It certainly seems insane. Having said that, I am feeling a bit of regret for leaving. But, I'm also very glad I'm not dealing with it.

[DaddyTorgo]

bah - you wuss!

did you rent out your apartment?

fuck man - i would have come down and camped out in your place had i known you were leaving, just to say i was there!!

[lordscarlet]

bah - you wuss!

did you rent out your apartment?

fuck man - i would have come down and camped out in your place had i known you were leaving, just to say i was there!!

I did not. The prices people were trying to get turned out to be unobtainable and it just wasn't worth it. We have a friend staying in our condo that got tickets to the parade and to one of the balls.

[lordscarlet]

From wtopnews.com: A 68-year-old woman has been struck by a Metro train at Gallery Place. She is still alive.

Metro says the train struck the woman around 9:30 a.m.

Metro spokesman Doug Karas says it's not clear whether crowding on the platforms is to blame for the woman falling on to the tracks.

Gallery Place Station and Metro Center stations are shut down. Anticipate delays.

[DaddyTorgo]

really? people couldn't get decent prices for them? that's a shame. always was under the impression they went for an okay chunk of change.

ah well.

[RPI-Fan]

Where are you staying in Charlottesville? What have you been doing around here???

[lordscarlet]

I'm reading stuff that says the whole surrounding area is jam-packed. They have compeltely closed the 14th street bridge (which was open only to pedestrian traffic) because it is too full. For those that don't know, that is one of the bridges coming over the Potomac River from Virginia, this one from directly south. It is the bridge that enteres closest to the National Mall (considering the Memorial Bridge is completely closed).

[lordscarlet]

really? people couldn't get decent prices for them? that's a shame. always was under the impression they went for an okay chunk of change.

ah well.


I mean, people were trying to get ~$1,000/night for a 1 bedroom. It came down to more like ~$300/night.

Where are you staying in Charlottesville? What have you been doing around here???

Are you in C'ville? We're staying at the Dinsmore House. It's a bed and breakfast right be The Corner, across from the hospital.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's pretty damn amazing

[Senator]

That is crazy. What is going on down there today?

[lordscarlet]

Dola: Oh, and we're mostly relaxing. :) We went to a movie yesterday, we're watching the inauguration in the room, and we may go see a band at Gravity Lounge tonight.

[RPI-Fan]

I mean, people were trying to get ~$1,000/night for a 1 bedroom. It came down to more like ~$300/night.



Are you in C'ville? We're staying at the Dinsmore House. It's a bed and breakfast right be The Corner, across from the hospital.

Yep, I live just outside of Charlottesville proper. Hadn't seen anyone from the board mention being aruond here ever!

[lordscarlet]

That is crazy. What is going on down there today?

Some dude is giving a speech I think.

[lordscarlet]

Yep, I live just outside of Charlottesville proper. Hadn't seen anyone from the board mention being aruond here ever!

My wife went to UVA. :) We stay here (at this same B&B) almost every MLK day (since 2005). We also come 1 or 2 other times during the year, generally. Normally for a basketball and/or football game. Wade and I will certainly be here for the W&M vs. UVA game in September.

[Lathum]

I'm with LordScarlet, I would have been as far from there as possible ( he could have come and crashed with me)

I hope everyone maintains order, it already looks like a total cluster.

[lordscarlet]

This picture (from dcist.com) is from 12th & E st NW, which is about 4 blocks east of the White House and about 3 blocks from the National Mall. Apparently theyre only letting 4 people through at a time (as of 8:57, which was a while ago).

[wade moore]

I'm with LordScarlet, I would have been as far from there as possible ( he could have come and crashed with me)

I hope everyone maintains order, it already looks like a total cluster.

Yeah, I hate to be this way but I worry about how many things can go wrong with that many people in one place in a city that just isn't built for it.

[JPhillips]

CNN was showing the line at the Carrollton station and it stretched well into the parking lot at three different angles. It looked fairly orderly, but I'm certain a lot of people waiting for the Metro won't make it to the inauguration.

[Lathum]

I have been to DC but am not 100% familiar with the layout.

How far, in miles, are the stations these people are waiting at from the mall?

[lordscarlet]

CNN was showing the line at the Carrollton station and it stretched well into the parking lot at three different angles. It looked fairly orderly, but I'm certain a lot of people waiting for the Metro won't make it to the inauguration.

And New Carrollton is a fairly far-out metro station. The farthest parking lots were full by about 8am from what I have read.

[lordscarlet]

I have been to DC but am not 100% familiar with the layout.

How far, in miles, are the stations these people are waiting at from the mall?

The one that JPhillips is talking about is in the Maryland suburbs. It's about 11 miles from downtown DC.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yep, I live just outside of Charlottesville proper. Hadn't seen anyone from the board mention being aruond here ever!

that's because your location is improperly listed as Troy, NY :p

[wade moore]

CNN was showing the line at the Carrollton station and it stretched well into the parking lot at three different angles. It looked fairly orderly, but I'm certain a lot of people waiting for the Metro won't make it to the inauguration.

Yeah - I worry as it gets closer to Noon and people aren't even on a metro yet, etc. Imagine you showed up at 8am, it's 11:00, the oath is at noon, and you're not on the metro yet.

[JPhillips]

And New Carrollton is a fairly far-out metro station. The farthest parking lots were full by about 8am from what I have read.

Carrollton is at the end of the Orange Line if I remember right. The problem with all the other stops is that the trains will be so packed from the first station that nobody else can get on. The Metro stops in between DC and the end stops are likely impossible to use right now.

[Lathum]

I can only imagine the gouging that is going on with the cab drivers

[Noop]

Wow. This is insane and I can not believe how many historical moments I have seen in my life.

[lordscarlet]

Carrollton is at the end of the Orange Line if I remember right. The problem with all the other stops is that the trains will be so packed from the first station that nobody else can get on. The Metro stops in between DC and the end stops are likely impossible to use right now.

As I said, we have a friend that has been stuck somewhere on the orange line in Virginia (the text messages aren't very clear) since 6:45am.

[lordscarlet]

I can only imagine the gouging that is going on with the cab drivers

It'll be interesting to hear. Most of the roads are blocked off, I don't even know if the cabs are allowed to drive on them.

[wade moore]

It'll be interesting to hear. Most of the roads are blocked off, I don't even know if the cabs are allowed to drive on them.

Yeah - my impression is that a cab really wouldn't do you much good.

[Lathum]

It'll be interesting to hear. Most of the roads are blocked off, I don't even know if the cabs are allowed to drive on them.

Yeah - my impression is that a cab really wouldn't do you much good.

well if it could get you from 11 miles away to 3-4 thats an eaiser walk.

[wade moore]

well if it could get you from 11 miles away to 3-4 thats an eaiser walk.

For the Maryland folks I suppose that is true, but all bridges from VA to DC are closed.

[Barkeep49]

Does anyone know where I can find a video of the San Francisco Children's Choir singing "Give Us Hope" this morning? Our school knows the composer of the song, but none of the cable/networks showed it live. We're hoping to show it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Does anyone know where I can find a video of the San Francisco Children's Choir singing "Give Us Hope" this morning? Our school knows the composer of the song, but none of the cable/networks showed it live. We're hoping to show it.

i'd imagine it would be up on youtube already, if not it should be soon.

failing that, they must have a website right? I'd assume it would be there.

but you're no dolt - i'm sure you've thought of these things.

[Barkeep49]

It's not up on youtube, cnn, msnbc, or hulu that I could find at this time. I'm sure it'll be up in the future, but we're wanting it now :)

[DaddyTorgo]

indeed you have. my google-fu has failed me so far.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

You can tell how much Bush-41's back is bothering him.

[Neon_Chaos]

Over under on the decibel levels of booing GWBush gets?

[Neon_Chaos]

That was smart. Following up Bush and Cheney with a crapload of names. :) Didn't give the people a chance to react.

[sooner333]

Over under on the decibel levels of booing GWBush gets?

None, because we're all supposed to be coming together. :rolleyes:

[Noop]

I think the happiest person there is George W. Bush.

[Senator]

We are one nation. Finally.

Well, that is what they keep telling me.

A friend of mine here at work keeps telling me, "Just think. At the end of the day, you can walk around and complain about the 8 hours of oppression your people have had to endure."

I told him I wanted his 40 acres and his mule.

[Izulde]

I liked Diane Feinstein's speech. Warren's prayer's making me snort. Way to overemphasize the monotheism and cracky voice there buddy.

[Logan]

I was in DC all last week for work, a few blocks south of the Capitol, and just looking at how it was set up already I couldn't imagine how it could possibly accomodate all those people.

I have a buddy who's a Fairfax County cop...I know they sent their entire riot squad to DC, hopefully they're only used to keep basic order.

[Izulde]

I'm digging this instrumental piece they're playing.

[JeeberD]

I'm digging this instrumental piece they're playing.

I made sure to record that for my wife, who used to play the cello (and is thinking about picking it back up for the local symphony) and loves Yo Yo Ma.

[kcchief19]

Too bad on the stumble during the oath. Roberts actually read it wrong the first time. He got closer the second time he read it. I think Roberts flubbing it threw Obama off because he seemed to think he had it wrong.

[Izulde]

Excellent inauguration speech by Obama.

[Izulde]

The bad poem brought the crowd's mood down.

[Sun Tzu]

I approve of Obama's speech.

[Izulde]

Amusing rimes by Wright. I thought his benediction kicked the tar out of Warren's bit.

[Neon_Chaos]

And in one fell swoop, America once again takes shape in the image of a shining city on top of a hill. :D

Here's to a successful term for Obama.

[Drake]

Maybe I'm cynical, but I thought Obama's inauguration speech sounded just like every inauguration speech I've ever heard, only delivered more eloquently.

Give me policy I can get behind and I'll cheer. Concatenate a bunch of platitudes about the responsibilities of citizenship and you get a resounding, "Meh."

All in all, about what I expected.

[ISiddiqui]

Decent speech, but no real iconic phrases or sentances. Every time though, I wonder how cold they must be in that weather, with just a simple woolen overcoat.

[DaddyTorgo]

And in one fell swoop, America once again takes shape in the image of a shining castle on top of a hill.

Here's to a successful term for Obama.

city on a hill Neon.

As I said after the election to a friend, I feel like it is really a time for us to grab up the torch of progress and light the flame anew, to selflessly give of ourselves in order to make this country, this world, a better place for our children. It is now that we must answer the clarion-call of history, to ensure that as it was in the 20th century, America in the 21st century will be that city on a hill whom all people's eyes are upon. It is a daunting task to be sure, but we have risen to similar challenges in the past, and we will rise to this one.

[Raiders Army]

I'm digging this instrumental piece they're playing.

Watched this on cnn.com. Some guy commented that John Williams ripped himself off because a section in that piece was exactly like when the Ewoks got their asses kicked.

[DaddyTorgo]

Decent speech, but no real iconic phrases or sentances.

I agree. Decent speech, but nothing iconic. There were a few parts that I think he really hit out of the park though - mostly for some reason the foreign policy stuff. I think maybe he fell victim to overly high expectations by the public in some sense?

Whatever, it's not the speech that's going to define how he does as President, so I'm okay.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe I'm cynical, but I thought Obama's inauguration speech sounded just like every inauguration speech I've ever heard, only delivered more eloquently.

Give me policy I can get behind and I'll cheer. Concatenate a bunch of platitudes about the responsibilities of citizenship and you get a resounding, "Meh."

All in all, about what I expected.

There were some policies in there. At least foreign policy. I surmised from the speech that we're going to be playing the economic-side of foreign policy in the future...offering carrots for good behavior.

[Raiders Army]

I thought it was great. $160M great, no. Maybe $150M great, but not $160M great.

[MrDNA]

A couple good lines (I liked the "We're willing to extend a hand if you will unclench your fist" part) and a good job of subtly setting up some of his policies. You could hear parts that foreshadowed digitizing medical records and setting up an information-age infrastructure rather than using the bailout on roads and bridges.

[JediKooter]

Watched this on cnn.com. Some guy commented that John Williams ripped himself off because a section in that piece was exactly like when the Ewoks got their asses kicked.

It also sounded like it had a lot of Close Encounters in it.

[Noop]

Look Obama is a lefty like me.

[Young Drachma]

Amusing rimes by Wright. I thought his benediction kicked the tar out of Warren's bit.

Joseph Lowery isn't Jeremiah Wright, just FYI.

[Young Drachma]

Look Obama is a lefty like me.

He is. They talk about it all of the time in reference to how much basketball he plays and how he's a leftie point guard.

[Young Drachma]

I think that speech had to be toned down a bit, everyone is saying that with the economy being shitty that "they didn't think we should even have this big a party..."

Ok, only my boss said that.

[Warhammer]

I can't get over how the radio people are covering this. One girl was mad because his speech wasn't more uplifting and didn't sound like he did when he was campaigning. Another was going on about Bush leaving the White House and what a happy moment it was.

I understand this is a historic moment. However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones?

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.

[digamma]

We always watched inaugurations in school.

[sooner333]

However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones?


Hint: What do all of the former presidents have in common other than being a male.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I understand this is a historic moment. However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones? .

Do you really need someone to answer this question for you? There are two reasons. Well, there is really only one reason (and it's a damned good one), the second reason is a far, far distant second.

1. First black president.

2. The country is in shambles and, fair or not, the Bush administration is inextricably linked to current state of our country. People are eager for change and this is the first time there has been a sense of hope for many folks in the last decade or so. I think, in many peoples' eyes, this isn't so much an inauguration as it is a liberation.

Remember the joyous celebrations that broke out in the streets when Obama won the election? That was the kind of liberation celebration that the Bush Administration had hoped for, but never really got, in Iraq.


Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.

See #2.

[DaddyTorgo]

I can't get over how the radio people are covering this. One girl was mad because his speech wasn't more uplifting and didn't sound like he did when he was campaigning. Another was going on about Bush leaving the White House and what a happy moment it was.

I understand this is a historic moment. However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones?

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.

1. Because he's the first black President, and also because of the renewed interest in political activism that he has fostered in a lot of people. huge voter registration/voter turnout thanks to his message and his organization.

And Regan's inauguration had a ton of coverage.

2. Because no other former Presidents have had approval ratings so low at the end of their terms, or probably throughout their terms by whatever statistic you use to measure it.

That being said, I'm not one of those cheering because Bush is gone. Am I happy he's gone...yes. Oh yes. But the day isn't about him, and frankly he had a metric shitload of stuff to deal with during his adminstrations. Did he fuck a lot of it up - yes. But I have some sympathy for the guy. Doesn't mean I condone his fucking it all up, but I have an appreciation of the magnitude of the challenges he faced.

[ISiddiqui]

One girl was mad because his speech wasn't more uplifting and didn't sound like he did when he was campaigning.

Well, this may be a culmination of liberal disillusionment with his transition. Far more moderate and pragmatic than a lot of them were hoping.

[Honolulu_Blue]

We always watched inaugurations in school.

http://www.horrordvds.com/reviews/misc/pictures/nerds.jpg

NERRRRRRRRRDDD!

[DaddyTorgo]

A liberation HB? I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a good way of characterizing it.

[Cringer]

I can't get over how the radio people are covering this. One girl was mad because his speech wasn't more uplifting and didn't sound like he did when he was campaigning. Another was going on about Bush leaving the White House and what a happy moment it was.

I understand this is a historic moment. However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones?

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.

All of the previous President's have been 100% white, fyi. Just to answer your questions.

Alsp, Bush leaving office is a joyous occasion for some people.

[Fighter of Foo]

And in one fell swoop, America once again takes shape in the image of a shining castle on top of a hill.

Here's to a successful term for Obama.

Sorry for being a cynic/asshole, but this kind of stuff makes me want to vomit.

[Fighter of Foo]

I can't get over how the radio people are covering this. One girl was mad because his speech wasn't more uplifting and didn't sound like he did when he was campaigning. Another was going on about Bush leaving the White House and what a happy moment it was.

I understand this is a historic moment. However, why haven't any of the other inaugurations had this much air time? (I'd actually prefer all of them to be shown, but I find the timing for this interesting) Heck, they're making the kids at school watch it today. Why wasn't this done for any of the previous ones?

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.

First and most importantly, respect is earned, not given.

Second, we watched both Bush I's and Clinton's inaugurations when i was in school.

[JPhillips]

I'm sure it didn't happen, but I can swear there was a shitload of talk about restoring dignity and honor to the White House when GWB was elected.

[Warhammer]

I get that he is black. I have a problem with the media falling all over themselves regarding all of this.

I also have issues with the emotion shown towards Bush as he left. I get that people didn't like him. He wasn't my favorite guy either. That said, he was our President and he should be shown some respect.

Watching everything, I am hoping that we can move beyond race. I am sick of it being injected everywhere, and the only way that we can move past it is by looking at the person inside and not what is outside.

[flere-imsaho]

A friend of mine here at work keeps telling me, "Just think. At the end of the day, you can walk around and complain about the 8 hours of oppression your people have had to endure."

I told him I wanted his 40 acres and his mule.

LOL :D

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect.

Jeez, where were you in 2001?

Far more moderate and pragmatic than a lot of them were hoping.

Not this liberal. Moderate and pragmatic is why I voted for him, basically. And even as an agnostic, I like that he's a man of faith - he's going to need it.

[Warhammer]

First and most importantly, respect is earned, not given.

Good point. My question then is this: What has Obama done to earn our respect? If it is the fact he has become President, then why was this not given to Bush when he entered office?

Regarding the inaugurations, I have no problem with schools showing them, provided it is done regardless of party affiliation, race, creed, etc. None of the previous ones were done down here which is what raised my question.

[ISiddiqui]

Not this liberal. Moderate and pragmatic is why I voted for him, basically. And even as an agnostic, I like that he's a man of faith - he's going to need it.

Well I was talking about the people like the radio person quoted. I can't tell you how many times I've been told "Oh, he's just doing this now during the transition to seem moderate, but wait until he gets into office", etc. Which has been a bit strange to me (he's already been elected, not like they can refuse to let him be President if he turns out to be a liberal loony or anything).

[Warhammer]

Jeez, where were you in 2001?

I distinctly remember people moaning and groaning and saying that he was not actually the President because he had stolen the election. I don't remember much of any respect given to him at that point. After 9/11, the country did rally around him.

[JPhillips]

It's impossible to use 2001 as a comparison to any other inauguration in history. The conditions around that election were unique. The closest modern comparison would be Reagan's election, but at 9 yrs old I don't remember much about that one.

[flere-imsaho]

I distinctly remember people moaning and groaning and saying that he was not actually the President because he had stolen the election. I don't remember much of any respect given to him at that point. After 9/11, the country did rally around him.

Er, when you said "Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect." and I said "Jeez, where were you in 2001?" the former President being treated with such a lack of respect to which I was referring was Clinton.

[flere-imsaho]

Well I was talking about the people like the radio person quoted. I can't tell you how many times I've been told "Oh, he's just doing this now during the transition to seem moderate, but wait until he gets into office", etc. Which has been a bit strange to me (he's already been elected, not like they can refuse to let him be President if he turns out to be a liberal loony or anything).

Yeah, I hear that. Equally amusing are the folks who figure everything will change 100% overnight once he's President. That won't happen either.

I'd attribute it to age, but I was in college when I attended Clinton's first inauguration (while doing an internship in the Senate) and I didn't think Clinton was going to change everything 100% overnight.

But everyone has hopes and dreams, and they ascribe these hopes and dreams to a person they think can realize them. That's how people get elected.

[Fighter of Foo]

Good point. My question then is this: What has Obama done to earn our respect? If it is the fact he has become President, then why was this not given to Bush when he entered office?


Re: Obama Nothing. The whole respect the office mantra is bullshit. Your comment was about Bush not being respected today and that one ain't hard to figure out.

[flere-imsaho]

I respect the office. I figure it only makes sense to respect the office and its occupant up until the moment that they do something (or some things) to no longer merit that respect. Sadly, every President in my conscious life (so that goes back to Reagan, really) has done just that.

This is different from how I normally operate. Normally I let people earn my respect, even including the leaders of companies I have as clients. But I think this particular office is a little different. Ostensibly the occupant of the office is going to try to do his best for the country, and I think he should be given support and the benefit of the doubt until proven unworthy of it.

But there you go.

[Young Drachma]

Let's not cry a river here for GWB. I mean, seriously. That guy made his own bed. He had two terms for goodness sakes.

[Raiders Army]

I gotta say, that poem lady was horrible. I hope they didn't spend a million on her. I could've read from Oh the Places You'll Go! for a cheap $900K.

Edit--I would've used hand puppets too.

[JPhillips]

Nobody should ever agree to be the speaker after Obama.

[Raiders Army]

Nobody should ever agree to be the speaker after Obama.

Well, on the plus side (not that he needed it), it made him look better.

[Galaxy]

A solid speech.

However, not it's time for Obama to sink or swim. Hopefully he can fix things (of course, that will be subjective to one's political beliefs).

[Honolulu_Blue]

I get that he is black. I have a problem with the media falling all over themselves regarding all of this.

.....

Watching everything, I am hoping that we can move beyond race. I am sick of it being injected everywhere, and the only way that we can move past it is by looking at the person inside and not what is outside.

Least. Surprising. Response. Ever.

[BYU 14]

Alsp, Bush leaving office is a joyous occasion for some people.

+1

And I am a registered Repulican. It is the hardest job in the world and I hate to be critical because I wouldn't want it. But part of being a good leader is flexibility and holding those under you accountable and at times Bush lacked both traits.

In regards to Warhammer, you realize it is the media making an issue about race, so take it for what it is....their job to get the most sensational angle. I have seen past race for my entire life and I feel more americans share that sentiment with me than don't. That said, it is still a historic occassion and race is a big part of that, but it won't have a thing to do with now he is as a president, so eventually the focus will shift.

I didn't vote for a black man, I voted for who I thought was the best man and I wish him luck.

One last comment regarding the race issue. My Pastor, who is black, told an interesting story in Church this week. He was at a multi-cultural function in preparation for civil rights day and as the conversation shifted to Obama being sworn in the day after the holiday, another black gentleman turned to him and whispered "We still haven't made any progress." He turned to the gentleman and said "Brother, you are the one that hasn't made any progress. It's easy to recognize progess, you just need to open your eyes, your mind and your heart."

A brilliant response that many others (of all backgrounds/ethnicities) need to take to heart.

[RedKingGold]

He's a rockstar president.

Let's just hope that his substance matches his style.

[GrantDawg]

Senators Byrd and Kennedy is receiving medical treatment. Teddy seems to have had a seizure.

[lordscarlet]

Senators Byrd and Kennedy is receiving medical treatment. Teddy seems to have had a seizure.

They seem to be saying it was just Ted Kennedy on NBC (after originally saying it was Byrd). He had a "prolonged seizure" according to NBC (which is showing msnbc coverage).

[JediKooter]

Senators Byrd and Kennedy is receiving medical treatment. Teddy seems to have had a seizure.

Did they have the fish or chicken?

[Crim]

Did they have the fish or chicken?

Gawd, JK, that's terrible.


Cracked me up though.

[ISiddiqui]

They seem to be saying it was just Ted Kennedy on NBC (after originally saying it was Byrd). He had a "prolonged seizure" according to NBC (which is showing msnbc coverage).

Apparently Byrd was overcome after seeing Kennedy have a seizure and taken out on a streacher.

[lordscarlet]

...now they're saying Byrd as well.

[JediKooter]

Gawd, JK, that's terrible.


Cracked me up though.

I'm glad somebody got the reference. :)

[SirFozzie]

Update: Kennedy suffered some big seizures, but remained conscious and was able to say a few words during it. Byrd became distraught about Kennedy's condition, and needed some fresh air. He is now fine, and is not going to the hospital.

[DaddyTorgo]

cmon Teddy!!!

pull through big fella!!!

and also: nothing irritates me more than the constant need of the media and some people to inject race into everything. honestly, at times i wish i lived in a society where everyone was blind, because then it wouldn't matter. it really frigging aggrivates me. I'd love to live my life not acknowledging the color of anybody's skin please.

[RainMaker]

I get that he is black. I have a problem with the media falling all over themselves regarding all of this.

I also have issues with the emotion shown towards Bush as he left. I get that people didn't like him. He wasn't my favorite guy either. That said, he was our President and he should be shown some respect.

Watching everything, I am hoping that we can move beyond race. I am sick of it being injected everywhere, and the only way that we can move past it is by looking at the person inside and not what is outside.

It is a historic event. A black person couldn't eat at the same restaurant as you 50 years ago. Now we have a black man in the most powerful position in the world.

I understand wanting to look past race, and that day will come. But we should celebrate the event regardless of whether you like the guy or not. We are probably the only democratically elected country that would put a minority into power. Ask yourself if a black man would ever be elected to office in the UK or France. It's a showcase for our country and the progress it's made.

As for Bush, I do think people go a bit overboard. But I understand the anger. He has screwed over a lot of people and lied to the public. He has shown little respect for us and can't complain when he gets it back.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

To show what a geek I can be, I noticed a flaw in Obama's speech... He said 44 Americans have now taken the oath. It's actually only 43. Grover Cleveland had non-consecutive terms, so he is counted twice. Only 43 men have been President.

[DaddyTorgo]

To show what a geek I can be, I noticed a flaw in Obama's speech... He said 44 Americans have now taken the oath. It's actually only 43. Grover Cleveland had non-consecutive terms, so he is counted twice. Only 43 men have been President.

GEEK!!! GEEK!!!! :D

[Autumn]

It is a historic event. A black person couldn't eat at the same restaurant as you 50 years ago. Now we have a black man in the most powerful position in the world.

I understand wanting to look past race, and that day will come. But we should celebrate the event regardless of whether you like the guy or not.

I agree. I think it's unfair for whites to say, "I want to look past color, enough about race," just when African-Americans, and Americans in general, have an amazing thing to celebrate. Nobody celebrates when a sports team hires a black player nowadays, but they did, or should have, when Jackie Robinson was hired. We need to stop to mark an amazing achievement before we move on to "getting beyond race." To do otherwise, to me, is disrespectful, and far too easy for those who haven't had to deal with racism.

[Eaglesfan27]

We always watched inaugurations in school.

Same here. I thought his speech was very good and I really enjoyed the line about unclenching the fist.

[kcchief19]

Finally, I don't remember any other former President treated with such a lack of respect. One person talking about Bush leaving the White House was talking about how this was such a joyous occasion.
I'm assuming you don't remember the Carter-Reagan transition -- that was similar in nature.

The ruckus is also a result of the fact that party-to-party transitions always generate more excitement and attention than intra-party transitions or second-term inaugurals. If you're younger than 35 to 40, at most you've probably only experienced three of these transitions.

And of course Bush is hurt by the fact that he has the lowest approval rating of any outgoing present ever. There wasn't as much anticipation from Clinton to Bush -- Clinton had an approval rating about 60.

[kcchief19]

I thought Obama's speech was decent. Reasonably high marks on delivery, I'd given average marks on content. He wasn't going for a campaign call-and-response feel yet there was no ask-not-what-your-country-can-do-line.

However, there was an interesting line that caught my eye reading the text:
Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.
Now one of the most famous lines from Jefferson's First Inaugural:
Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations--entangling alliances with none, I deem the essential principles of our government, and consequently those which ought to shape its administration.
No way is the wording coincidental. We've gone from no entangling alliances to sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. I thought he did a good job of diplomatically stating a new course for foreign policy, not by attacking Bush but by breaking with Jefferson.

[Fighter of Foo]

No way is the wording coincidental. We've gone from no entangling alliances to sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. I thought he did a good job of diplomatically stating a new course for foreign policy, not by attacking Bush but by breaking with Jefferson.

And this is why Obama becoming President makes me sad. He could use his approval rating and political capital to get us back to the novel concept of following the Constitution. Instead he's only going to focus on tactics.

Not that I'm surprised in the slightest, just sad.

[cartman]

And this is why Obama becoming President makes me sad. He could use his approval rating and political capital to get us back to the novel concept of following the Constitution. Instead he's only going to focus on tactics.

Not that I'm surprised in the slightest, just sad.

How is changing the foreign policy course considered not following the constitution?

[lighthousekeeper]

How is changing the foreign policy course considered not following the constitution?

isn't it obvious:

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We are probably the only democratically elected country that would put a minority into power.

Well, I won't disagree with you on that one. I believe that factoid has already been out there somewhere a little, although I forget the precise wording used to make it true statement (i.e. whether it's ethnic minority or racial minority or whatever).

Of course there's a question of whether that will be to our advantage, detriment, or neither that looms large over the next ever how many years.

[Buccaneer]

I thought it was a good speech (on paper). Quite moderate and a bit hawkish. I'm sure the extreme left cringed at this references to Scripture, to America's military might, to Manifest Destiny and to our country and way of life setting the standard for the world. I also could hear members of Congress snorting in derision at the Executive Branch holding them accountable for taxpayer's dollars; proclaiming an end to the petty grievances and false promises; and that programs will end. I don't believe a word of those will be true. Obama may want them and will push for them, but Congress will push back even harder.

[lighthousekeeper]

Of course there's a question of whether that will be to our advantage, detriment, or neither that looms large over the next ever how many years.

:rolleyes: Who would even think that?

[JonInMiddleGA]

:rolleyes: Who would even think that?

Well, it isn't as though there's a notably successful example of a similar situation to use as a basis for optimism now is there? (see the previous point about the largely unprecedented nature of the situation)

[bhlloy]

Well, I won't disagree with you on that one. I believe that factoid has already been out there somewhere a little, although I forget the precise wording used to make it true statement (i.e. whether it's ethnic minority or racial minority or whatever).

Of course there's a question of whether that will be to our advantage, detriment, or neither that looms large over the next ever how many years.

I'd imagine it would have to be a racial minority, seeing as there have been numerous Welsh and Scottish prime ministers of the UK over the years (including the incumbent)

[Critch]

We are probably the only democratically elected country that would put a minority into power.

Peru elected an Asian president in 1990, Alberto Fujimori. The Prime Minister of India is a democratically elected minority too, he's a Sikh. Britain had a Jewish Prime Minister in the 1800s, Benjamin Disraeli. I'm sure there's more too.

I guess de Klerk and Botha in South Africa don't really count :)

[lighthousekeeper]

Well, it isn't as though there's a notably successful example of a similar situation to use as a basis for optimism now is there? (see the previous point about the largely unprecedented nature of the situation)

that logic could be used to say that we don't know between 'positive' and 'neither', for sure. but detriment? how could obama being black be a possible detriment? :confused:

[JonInMiddleGA]

Peru elected an Asian president in 1990, Alberto Fujimori.

Thanks, you reminded me of what the kicker was.

First yada yada yada of an industrialized/developed/high income nation (phrase depends upon which definition you like, CIA or World Bank or IMF or whomever).

[RainMaker]

that logic could be used to say that we don't know between 'positive' and 'neither', for sure. but detriment? how could obama being black be a possible detriment? :confused:

The melanin in his body will cause him to make bad decisions!

[JonInMiddleGA]

that logic could be used to say that we don't know between 'positive' and 'neither', for sure. but detriment? how could obama being black be a possible detriment? :confused:

The most obvious would be if his actions were aimed at the specific benefit of his own minority instead of the nation as a whole.

Has nothing to do with being black however, he could be Asian, Jewish, atheist, left-handed, near-sighted, whatever. Any minority would fit the "detriment" if it were used as the primary influence on courses of action rather than the good of the nation as a whole.

[cartman]

But, to be honest about it, the US is the most heterogeneous society of all the first world nations. So it is not surprising that it happened here.

[ISiddiqui]

From the part of the speech that kcchief referenced:

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions.

Yes, sometimes with other fascists or communists! ;)

[Tim Tellean]

My son and I went to the swearing-in, arrived at Courthouse Metro about 6:45 am and waited an hour and a half on the platform at the front for a train we could actually board, once on we were at Fed Triangle and out of station by 8:15, on the Mall, far left of the Smithsonian Castle, jumbotron blocked by tree limbs but we sang with the crowd, cheered Obama, Biden and jeered Bush, Cheney (weird poetic justice in Cheney leaving by wheelchair), watched the speech and were leaving the mall by 1:15, 3 packed/closed Metro Stations later we waited in line for an hour at Fed Center SW and were back at West Falls Church by 5:30, home in Reston by 5:45 pm.
Side note- 2 guys in front of us turned there backs when Rick Warren spoke.
It was amazing to be with my youngest (16) and see/feel the energy and positive vibe of the crowd, except for the dethaw that continues as I write the experience was well worth it.

[lighthousekeeper]

The most obvious would be if his actions were aimed at the specific benefit of his own minority instead of the nation as a whole.

Has nothing to do with being black however, he could be Asian, Jewish, atheist, left-handed, near-sighted, whatever. Any minority would fit the "detriment" if it were used as the primary influence on courses of action rather than the good of the nation as a whole.

if that's the argument you're going to select, then you have nothing to worry about. there have been a handful of lefty presidents in the past and to my knowledge none have put forth vast amounts of pro-lefty handouts. Truman, for example, didn't enforce affirmative action for lefties.

sometimes i wish you were more crafty at hiding your racism.

[Buccaneer]

Side note- 2 guys in front of us turned there backs when Rick Warren spoke.
It was amazing to be with my youngest (16) and see/feel the energy and positive vibe of the crowd,

They must have not seen the 2 guys in front, huh?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Truman, for example, didn't enforce affirmative action for lefties.

Which is great, but it remains to be seen whether Obama will follow that precedent. Which reminds me, how good is the track record of elected officials actually following through on what they promised while campaigning?

But if you want to live in a state of denial about the uncertainty then by all means knock yourself out.

[Raiders Army]

:rolleyes: Who would even think that?

The thought has crossed my mind. I've spoken to some pretty adamant supporters of Obama simply because he's black. I could see it as a detriment because he was elected because he is black.

Who knows, though? I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt (probably the same as I would have McCain).

[sterlingice]

Well, I was there and it was cold. I had some pics but not sure anyone is interested since they're not the greatest and you can find some better ones online.

SI

[Autumn]

People not worrying about a black president governing poorly because he's black is exactly what we're celebrating here. The ridiculous fact that anyone is still worrying about this issue is apparently why it took so long to happen.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I only voted for him because he's black.

Well, actually, I only got halfway to the voting station because he's half black. Then I just kinda stood there for a while. Then I forgot where I was going so I went home.

Happy belated Pumpy Day, everyone.

[Drake]

Side note- 2 guys in front of us turned there backs when Rick Warren spoke.

Glad they were able to celebrate the inclusivity everyone else is so inspired by.

I only voted for him because he's black.

Well, actually, I only got halfway to the voting station because he's half black. Then I just kinda stood there for a while. Then I forgot where I was going so I went home.

Happy belated Pumpy Day, everyone.

If you were single, I would leave my wife for you.

[sterlingice]

Did they have the fish or chicken?

:D

SI

[sterlingice]

I gotta say, that poem lady was horrible. I hope they didn't spend a million on her. I could've read from Oh the Places You'll Go! for a cheap $900K.

Edit--I would've used hand puppets too.

I'd do Yertle The Turtle for $500K!

SI

[Buccaneer]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/t1wide.mall.satellite.geoeye.jpg (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/index.html)

Can someone tell me what I am looking at (this was the lead picture on cnn.com just now)? Those 8 round splotches are groups of people? If so, why are they grouped like that?

[sterlingice]

Peru elected an Asian president in 1990, Alberto Fujimori. The Prime Minister of India is a democratically elected minority too, he's a Sikh. Britain had a Jewish Prime Minister in the 1800s, Benjamin Disraeli. I'm sure there's more too.

I guess de Klerk and Botha in South Africa don't really count :)

Heck, a couple of Muslim countries have had women leaders- Turkey and Indonesia, for two. And that's pretty substantial and something we haven't done.

SI

[sterlingice]

Yes, sometimes with other fascists or communists! ;)

To be fair, I have yet to see the true Communist country that we've seen. All of them have been dictatorships in communist clothing.

SI

[sterlingice]

(you guys had to know you weren't getting away with a little one line snippet from me...)

We stayed with my wife's college roommate who lives in Alexandria. We took their apartment shuttle to the King Street metro at around 5:30 and didn't have any real issue getting there. Got to L'Enfant not much after 6 on the yellow and staked out an area on the Mall near the American History Smithsonian, where one of the giant tvs were located. We had a blanket so we kindof had a "perimeter" that was the 3 of ours so we didn't get crushed too much in the crowd- that turned out to be a great life saver.

The hassles involved trying to move in the crowd. Both my wife and I made a bathroom run around ~8 and then ~9 and getting there was a little trying, but not too bad. The problem was getting back to our location- it took me nearly 45 minutes to "fight" my way back- there were no real "lines" to get back through to your seat so you basically had to bull your way through the crowd and there was no way to say "excuse me" and "sorry" that was enough for everyone.

Still, once the ceremony started, it was worth it. Again, a fun ceremony, a historic ceremony, and just fun to be there with the people around you. The music was great, especially the instrumental one. I liked the prayer- great rhetorical devices. And the benediction was funny with the closing reference (Hughes, right?).

The speech- I dunno. I didn't get that "tingle" in me from a hit-it-out-of-the-park speech. But it could have been because I was in sub-freezing weather for around 6 hours at that point. I like the description of it being "pragmatic"- I hope he can deliver. But, as Bucc said, Congress will push back hard on that.

Other notes:
-Bush (41) looked bad. Is he is ill health?
-Did I see Cheney in a wheelchair?
-I wish people hadn't boo'd Dubya. I have as much vitriol here for him as anyone and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the worst President in my lifetime. But this is a day to cheer his accomplishments, no matter how few they may be in some of our eyes, and for the passing of the torch.

(edits for grammar)
The one thing that bothered me was that I'm not sure people are ready to change- no one really clapped on his line of "the world has changed and we must change with it" and it was the only time in the speech he really misjudged the crowd. Frankly, after that mass of people were there- it was a giant trass heap- no responsibility for anyone, much less selflessness. Lastly, while leaving, with a lot of the electric atmosphere and the message of sacrifice, there was a lot of the same old selfish and rude people, unfortunately. Even during Christmas season, you see a lot of people acting nice, even for a month of the year. How much do people really want to change?

Would never go again, but definitely worth doing this once. And if you have to choose a "once", this one might have been it.

SI

[Tim Tellean]

Bucc- The "splotches are masses of people" gathered within view of a Jumbotron. The open areas of the mall is lined with large trees and the view was obstructed by the trees and limbs.

[lighthousekeeper]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/t1wide.mall.satellite.geoeye.jpg (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/index.html)

Can someone tell me what I am looking at (this was the lead picture on cnn.com just now)? Those 8 round splotches are groups of people? If so, why are they grouped like that?

...and they're all black! :eek:

[Tim Tellean]

(you guys had to know you weren't getting away with a little one line snippet from me...)

We stayed with my wife's college roommate who lives in Alexandria. We took their apartment shuttle to the King Street metro at around 5:30 and didn't have any real issue getting there. Got to L'Enfant not much after 6 on the yellow and staked out an area on the Mall near the American History Smithsonian, where one of the giant tvs were located. We had a blanket so we kindof had a "perimeter" that was the 3 of ours so we didn't get crushed too much in the crowd- that turned out to be a great life saver.

The hassles involved trying to move in the crowd. Both my wife and I made a bathroom run around ~8 and then ~9 and getting there was a little trying, but not too bad. The problem was getting back to our location- it took me nearly 45 minutes to "fight" my way back- there were no real "lines" to get back through to your seat so you basically had to bull your way through the crowd and there was no way to say "excuse me" and "sorry" that was enough for everyone.

Still, once the ceremony started, it was worth it. Again, a fun ceremony, a historic ceremony, and just fun to be there with the people around you. The music was great, especially the instrumental one. I liked the prayer- great rhetorical devices. And the benediction was funny with the closing reference (Hughes, right?).

The speech- I dunno. I didn't get that "tingle" in me from a hit-it-out-of-the-park speech. But it could have been because I was in sub-freezing weather for around 6 hours at that point. I like the description of it being "pragmatic"- I hope he can deliver. But, as Bucc said, Congress will push back hard on that.

Other notes:
-Bush (41) looked bad. Is he is ill health?
-Did I see Cheney in a wheelchair?
-I wish people hadn't boo'd Dubya. I have as much vitriol here for him as anyone and I'm pretty sure I've witnessed the worst President in my lifetime. But this is a day to cheer his accomplishments, no matter how few they may be in some of our eyes, and for the passing of the torch.

The one thing that bothered me was that I'm not sure people are ready to change- no one really clapped on his line of "the world has changed and we must change with it" and it was the only time in the speech he really misjudged the crowd. Frankly, after that mass of people were there- it was a giant trass heap- no responsibility for anyone, much less selflessness. Lastly, ,while leaving, with a lot of the electric atmosphere and the message of selflessness, a lot of the same old selfish and rude people, unfortunately. Even during Christmas season, you see a lot of people acting nice, even for a month of the year. How much do people really want to change?

Would never go again, but definitely worth doing this once. And if you have to choose a "once", this one might have been it.

SI

Well put and yeah Cheney is in a wheelchair, apparently he pulled a muscle in his back moving some of the boxes.
Personally I wanted to throw some shoes at Bush, but thats me. harsh to the bitter end.

[ISiddiqui]

Other notes:
-Bush (41) looked bad. Is he is ill health?

Well he is 84, going on 85.

-Did I see Cheney in a wheelchair?

Yes, he hurt his back moving.

The one thing that bothered me was that I'm not sure people are ready to change- no one really clapped on his line of "the world has changed and we must change with it" and it was the only time in the speech he really misjudged the crowd. Frankly, after that mass of people were there- it was a giant trass heap- no responsibility for anyone, much less selflessness. Lastly, ,while leaving, with a lot of the electric atmosphere and the message of selflessness, a lot of the same old selfish and rude people, unfortunately. Even during Christmas season, you see a lot of people acting nice, even for a month of the year. How much do people really want to change?

I get the feeling people like hearing about change and changing themselves, but they'd rather want the guy next to them to start.

[JonInMiddleGA]

-Bush (41) looked bad. Is he is ill health?
-Did I see Cheney in a wheelchair?

My wife mentioned both of those things to me after watching.

She said Barbara was pretty much having to help 41 up & down stairs, etc., so I have to think that isn't a sign of good health although they didn't mention anything specific.

As for Cheney, I believe she said the explanation given was that he had injured his back while moving books (or boxes of books, or something like that) and that he was using the wheelchair because his back wasn't up to all of the sitting, moving around, etc. FWIW she didn't buy that explanation after watching him.

[Young Drachma]

They've been calling him President-Elect so long that they're still having trouble saying "The President."

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting fact - Bush (41) and Jimmy Carter are the same age. Both born in 1924. But damn Carter looks a hell of a lot better!

[sterlingice]

As for Cheney, I believe she said the explanation given was that he had injured his back while moving books (or boxes of books, or something like that) and that he was using the wheelchair because his back wasn't up to all of the sitting, moving around, etc. FWIW she didn't buy that explanation after watching him.

Cheney: "So, if I put a weapon in my wheelchair and get the new President before he takes the oath-- maybe I'll be the new Empero-- err.. President" ;)

SI

[Buccaneer]

Personally I wanted to throw some shoes at Bush, but thats me. harsh to the bitter end.

Cool. :rolleyes:

I get the feeling people like hearing about change and changing themselves, but they'd rather want the guy next to them to start.


Yep...and as long they change to something they agree with.

Frankly, after that mass of people were there- it was a giant trass heap- no responsibility for anyone, much less selflessness

They must not have heard President Obama talk about responsibility. Oh that's right, that's for the guy next to them.

[Buccaneer]

Cheney: "So, if I put a weapon in my wheelchair and get the new President before he takes the oath-- maybe I'll be the new Empero-- err.. President" ;)

SI

You must not have read the ending to Debt of Honor? :) That's why they do the VP first.

[sterlingice]

Oh, it's Cheney. He probably put in an Executive Order to change the order of succession. ;)

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

cool thing - check out the new whitehouse.gov

we'll see how well they follow through, but at least at the moment it looks like a whole new era of transparency - pledging to post all non-critical bills for 5 days before obama signs them for public commentary and stuff like that. videos...web addresses...etc.

i was very impressed. the thought crossed my mind that i'd have to put the site on a "every few days" type of rotation.

[Buccaneer]

Oh, it's Cheney. He probably put in an Executive Order to change the order of succession. ;)

SI

LOL. Very well done.

[flere-imsaho]

She said Barbara was pretty much having to help 41 up & down stairs, etc., so I have to think that isn't a sign of good health although they didn't mention anything specific.

Apparently he's been that way since he had back surgery, which I believe wasn't too, too long ago. At least that's what they said on PBS.

[Buccaneer]

Oh, it's Cheney. He probably put in an Executive Order to change the order of succession. ;)

SI

Speaking of that, I read that Obama purposely kept Gates away to ensure a successor. I don't know if it's always customary to keep the Sec Def away (makes sense because that's exactly what we would need in case the Mall blew up), but that would mean a Rep would have been President. Probably like in Executive Orders, parties would not matter at that point but I'm sure someone would have seen the irony of it all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

interesting fact - Bush (41) and Jimmy Carter are the same age. Both born in 1924. But damn Carter looks a hell of a lot better!

Interesting factoid along a similar vein - the outgoing Bush is the first President to ever leave office with both parents still alive (according to his speech upon landing in Texas, mentioned in relation to his plans for retirement).

Just an odd something I'd never really thought about before.

[Autumn]

Yeah, one of the newscasters was mentioning that since they were running a bit slow on the ceremony, Biden was actually president for a time since they hadn't sworn Obama in but time had run out on Bush and Cheney, I guess? Funny.

I thought not only did Bush 41 look bad (which he didn't last time I had seen him), but Bush 43 looked awful too. Despite it all I"ve never really seen him out of sorts or nervous, even when I thought he should have been. But when he walked out he looked like he was going to toss his cookies or cry, I thought.

It would have been nice to hear that all those people gathered took the chance to try a little neighborly kindness. I can imagine what they were like instead though, crowded events seem to bring the worst out of people.

[DaddyTorgo]

Biden wasn't actually President. Until 12pm Bush was President. At 12pm Obama became President.

(although to be fair i guess constitutional scholars even disagree on this precise point as far as does he have to take the oath of office or not)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Despite it all I"ve never really seen him out of sorts or nervous, even when I thought he should have been.

His voice also broke for a moment during his speech in Midland today.

[cartman]

Speaking of that, I read that Obama purposely kept Gates away to ensure a successor. I don't know if it's always customary to keep the Sec Def away (makes sense because that's exactly what we would need in case the Mall blew up), but that would mean a Rep would have been President. Probably like in Executive Orders, parties would not matter at that point but I'm sure someone would have seen the irony of it all.

There is always at least one member of the succession list that is sequestered whenever there is a critical mass of the list gathered. The most common occurrence of this happening is during the State of the Union address.

[JetsIn06]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/t1wide.mall.satellite.geoeye.jpg (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/20/obama.inauguration/index.html)

Can someone tell me what I am looking at (this was the lead picture on cnn.com just now)? Those 8 round splotches are groups of people? If so, why are they grouped like that?

I saw this on CNN's television coverage and they said that there were big screens set up, so I'm assuming everyone was getting as close as possible.

[Raiders Army]

I only voted for him because he's black.

Well, actually, I only got halfway to the voting station because he's half black. Then I just kinda stood there for a while. Then I forgot where I was going so I went home.

Happy belated Pumpy Day, everyone.

He's only half-black??? What next? Are you gonna tell me the Rock and Tiger Woods aren't black?

[kcchief19]

Speaking of that, I read that Obama purposely kept Gates away to ensure a successor. I don't know if it's always customary to keep the Sec Def away (makes sense because that's exactly what we would need in case the Mall blew up), but that would mean a Rep would have been President. Probably like in Executive Orders, parties would not matter at that point but I'm sure someone would have seen the irony of it all.
Technically it's the outgoing president's call who will not attend since only the current cabinet secretaries are still in the presidential line of succession. But it has to be a cabinet secretary whose resignation has not yet been accepted by the president-elect effective at noon, so the outgoing president can dictate who it will be by forcing the outgoing president to select someone who still has a job. In this case, Gates made sense on all fronts because he's a holdover from the previous cabinet. Plus, he's a Republican so Obama is fine not having him front and center with the rest of his new cabinet -- he doesn't want a Republican overshadowing his cabinet at the inaugural with who gets face time on TV.
Yeah, one of the newscasters was mentioning that since they were running a bit slow on the ceremony, Biden was actually president for a time since they hadn't sworn Obama in but time had run out on Bush and Cheney, I guess? Funny.
Not true. The vice president only becomes president if the 25th amendment is invoked or the president dies. Many argue that the 20th Amendment means the president elect becomes president at noon regardless of whether the oath has been taken. Some would argue that he would technically be the president but would not have the powers of the office until he takes the oath. Biden would still only be the VP either way. If you stipulate that the oath must be taken, Biden wouldn't be president because he didn't take the presidential oath; he took the oath that senators take, not the president. Of course, don't remind Cheney of that because he'll start convincing Biden he's not in the executive branch. There is also nothing preventing Obama from taking the oath in the Capitol beforehand just in case something goes wrong.

Other Constitution trivia: the words "so help me God" are not in the oath. There is no evidence when the tradition started but lore says it was Lincoln.

[RainMaker]

cool thing - check out the new whitehouse.gov

we'll see how well they follow through, but at least at the moment it looks like a whole new era of transparency - pledging to post all non-critical bills for 5 days before obama signs them for public commentary and stuff like that. videos...web addresses...etc.

i was very impressed. the thought crossed my mind that i'd have to put the site on a "every few days" type of rotation.

I'm very optimistic about him. I'm not a Democrat either. I think he has the chance to really set the tone for future administrations. We forget that these guys are our employees. We pay their salaries, they work for us. We shouldn't have to fight for transparency when it comes to our money.

I hope this will bring on a new era of politics that is for the people and not the biggest lobbyist.

[Pumpy Tudors]

He's only half-black??? What next? Are you gonna tell me the Rock and Tiger Woods aren't black?
If it makes you feel better, Chris Rock is black.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm very optimistic about him. I'm not a Democrat either. I think he has the chance to really set the tone for future administrations. We forget that these guys are our employees. We pay their salaries, they work for us. We shouldn't have to fight for transparency when it comes to our money.

I hope this will bring on a new era of politics that is for the people and not the biggest lobbyist.

i hope so! that might even make Bucc happy!

[EagleFan]

Interesting day but what I found the most amusing was watching people's reaction to it. Things like the little snippets of people's remarks on some of teh web sites that were broadcasting the innauguration. People were treating this event as if the world was going to change when he took the oath. Guess what people, it's still business as usual and it's up to you to make this work, he is not going to "lead you to the promised land".

[kcchief19]

We've now moved on to the Inaugural Ball portion of the gala, and let me just say something that I have know but not truly appreciated before -- Shakira is beyond smokin' hot. That is all.

[Autumn]

Barack Obama, 44th President: I'll bring the smoking hot chicks.

Should have just run on that.

[Buccaneer]

i hope so! that might even make Bucc happy!

Don't count on it. It will take a generation or two to reduce the Potomac Fever because the system of lobbyist-/special interest-driven legislation is very strong - because that's the way we want it. In other words, we have never cared about the details, nor will we even if bills are posted on teh internets (as they have been for a while now), we let those with access to Congresspersons and their staffs (and legislative/departmental employees) draft the deviled details.

Rule #1 is for Congresspersons to keep their seat and to gain more power that seniority gives them. In order to do that, you have to get re-elected and those that contributes the most to that effort while be owed favors. It is no different than how it works on a state and local level, just the scale.

The federal Congress never had to be concerned with balanced budgets (unlike many states), so adding onto pending legislations becomes very easy to do (whether 'pork' or legalese that creates a favorable loophole). In order to get that passed in committee and on the floor, it becomes quid pro quo.

So you tell me, why would any of that need to change, esp. when Executive becomes part of that game to get what they want - quid pro quo? Nothing will change in Congress (even when switching majority parties) unless something very drastic happens. (You might call a financial crises a drastic event but you've seen what their response was - enormous deficit spending with little accountability.)

[JPhillips]

We've now moved on to the Inaugural Ball portion of the gala, and let me just say something that I have know but not truly appreciated before -- Shakira is beyond smokin' hot. That is all.

I consider this a failed first day of the Obama presidency because no one at FOFC has made a beautiful balls joke.

[RainMaker]

Don't count on it. It will take a generation or two to reduce the Potomac Fever because the system of lobbyist-/special interest-driven legislation is very strong - because that's the way we want it. In other words, we have never cared about the details, nor will we even if bills are posted on teh internets (as they have been for a while now), we let those with access to Congresspersons and their staffs (and legislative/departmental employees) draft the deviled details.

Rule #1 is for Congresspersons to keep their seat and to gain more power that seniority gives them. In order to do that, you have to get re-elected and those that contributes the most to that effort while be owed favors. It is no different than how it works on a state and local level, just the scale.

The federal Congress never had to be concerned with balanced budgets (unlike many states), so adding onto pending legislations becomes very easy to do (whether 'pork' or legalese that creates a favorable loophole). In order to get that passed in committee and on the floor, it becomes quid pro quo.

So you tell me, why would any of that need to change, esp. when Executive becomes part of that game to get what they want - quid pro quo? Nothing will change in Congress (even when switching majority parties) unless something very drastic happens. (You might call a financial crises a drastic event but you've seen what their response was - enormous deficit spending with little accountability.)

Congressman should have term limits in my opinion. I'd be much more inclined to give them two 4-year terms. Roots out the career politicians and slows down the people who sell out to lobbyists.

I'd also enact a law that states a Congressman/Senator/Administration Official cannot work for a lobbying group for 5 years after they have been removed from power or left office. Would help reduce the instances where shitbags like Billy Tauzin can ripoff the country for billions.

[Buccaneer]

I'd be much more inclined to give them two 4-year terms. Roots out the career politicians and slows down the people who sell out to lobbyists.


I agree with that. We have term limits for Presidents, Governors, state Legislatures and Mayors, but not for federal Legislatures?

[JPhillips]

At the state level term limits have often done the opposite. Career lobbyists know how things work much better than short term politicians and can run circles around them.

I'm all for making it harder to go back and forth from elected office to lobbying firm.

[kcchief19]

At the state level term limits have often done the opposite. Career lobbyists know how things work much better than short term politicians and can run circles around them.
Couldn't agree more. Lobbyist have so much more power in our state capitols in Missouri and Kansas than before term limits, especially in the houses. In Missouri you're limited to eight years in the house. It typically takes a house member at least one term to get their feet wet. Good ones will start to exert influence in a second term but most don't get going until a third term. Once they get a hang of things, they're done. Most then run for the Senate, so the Senate has a bit more experience.

But with so many house members having so little experience, they rely on lobbyists big time to help them sort through which bills are important and which ones aren't. If you're a lawmaker proposing a bill, it isn't going anywhere unless there is a lobbying behind it. As a result, even seasoned lawmakers have to sell lobbyists on why bills are good for them so they can sell it to the rookie lawmakers.

I use to be in favor of term limits and I'm generally in favor of term limits for executive offices because I generally think it's good for executives to leave too early rather than too late.

Would the U.S. Senate be better off if Ted Kennedy were booted out of the senate 24 years ago? Should McCain have booted from the Senate eight years ago? We have term limits -- they are called elections.

It's not really that money has too much influence, it's just that "dumb money" has too much influence. The Big 3 automakers spent tons of money fighting requirements that would have made their cars more fuel efficient and competitive against foreign-cars because they wanted the short-term benefits but ignored the long-term consequences. Banks and investment firms have spent tons of money getting candidates elected and opposing the very regulation that would have prevented the collapse we've experienced.

I don't know how you get the "dumb money" out and the "smart money" -- getting lobbyists and PACs to support policies such as balancing the budget that are good for everyone. Nothing we've done so far has worked.

[ace1914]

...and they're all black! :eek:

:lol:. You got my head hurting on that one!!!!!!

[DanGarion]

Watching everything, I am hoping that we can move beyond race. I am sick of it being injected everywhere, and the only way that we can move past it is by looking at the person inside and not what is outside.
Please read the Bart Shooting thread and come back here. It's always about race... No matter how many of us that don't want to look at it that way...

[Neon_Chaos]

Biden wasn't actually President. Until 12pm Bush was President. At 12pm Obama became President.

(although to be fair i guess constitutional scholars even disagree on this precise point as far as does he have to take the oath of office or not)

CNN announced that as of 12noon (during the john williams piece), that Obama was the POTUS even without swearing in.

[Buccaneer]

Would the U.S. Senate be better off if Ted Kennedy were booted out of the senate 24 years ago?

Yes. :) But being from Massachussets, the Family would've hand-picked someone else.

I don't know how you get the "dumb money" out and the "smart money" -- getting lobbyists and PACs to support policies such as balancing the budget that are good for everyone. Nothing we've done so far has worked.

I think one idea would be to reduce the need for such power in the first place. If, for example, the Department of [Something] was objectively evaluated that it was redundant to other federal and state agencies, and provide almost no ROI (besides employing people that basically do nothing), then it wouldn't be worth the time and resources for lobbyists/lawyers/staff to craft more rules/expenditures and thereby eliminating such bills for quid pro quo efforts.

In a Republic, money flows to those with power and influence - that will not change. What can change will be the need for such power and influence in the first place.

[SFL Cat]

Sh*t. Was the inauguration today???

[DanGarion]

interesting fact - Bush (41) and Jimmy Carter are the same age. Both born in 1924. But damn Carter looks a hell of a lot better!

And he was still a worse president then GB Jr.;)

[RainMaker]

At the state level term limits have often done the opposite. Career lobbyists know how things work much better than short term politicians and can run circles around them.

I'm all for making it harder to go back and forth from elected office to lobbying firm.

That's probably the bigger issue. Most of these guys go into the lobbying firms for big bucks. They sell out their constituents and don't care. A law like that will never happen but it would really help fix some of the major corruption problems.

[DaddyTorgo]

And he was still a worse president then GB Jr.;)

Carter worse than lil Bush??

I wasn't born until 1979 so I don't have a firsthand perspective on Carter, but I think that's a tough sell. Why don't you ask Pumpy and EF and anyone else from New Orleans? Or any of the military vets? Or...well the list goes on.

[DanGarion]

Other Constitution trivia: the words "so help me God" are not in the oath. There is no evidence when the tradition started but lore says it was Lincoln.

According to the show I was watching on Presidents on the History channel it was Washington that started it I think. I'd have to check again to verify that though...

[Autumn]

That guy was a real groundbreaker. They should put him on a coin or something.

[DanGarion]

Carter worse than lil Bush??

I wasn't born until 1979 so I don't have a firsthand perspective on Carter, but I think that's a tough sell. Why don't you ask Pumpy and EF and anyone else from New Orleans? Or any of the military vets? Or...well the list goes on.
Jimmy Carter did something in New Orleans while he was president?

[DanGarion]

That guy was a real groundbreaker. They should put him on a coin or something.

Only time Carter broke the ground was to plant peanuts! ;)

[Groundhog]

So, now we get to see if ya'll selected a change maker, or a politician.

I'm hoping it's the former, but my pessimistic streak has me thinking it's the later.

[Galaxy]

Sh*t. Was the inauguration today???

Yeah...Didn't you feel the change????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!

[Crapshoot]

Sh*t. Was the inauguration today???

Dude, I figured you would seen it down at the local Klan office. :D

[sabotai]

According to the show I was watching on Presidents on the History channel it was Washington that started it I think. I'd have to check again to verify that though...

That's what I found through the magic of googling as well, but I did find indications that it may be a bit of a legend. There's no evidence that he said it. There are accounts of him putting his hand on a Bible and kissing it after taking the oath, but no accounts of him actually saying those words.

But Franklin Pierce affirmed the oath (rather than swear to it) and did not put his hand on the Bible. Herbert Hoover used a Bible, but he affirmed the oath as well.

[RainMaker]

And he was still a worse president then GB Jr.;)

The funny thing about Carter and Bush is that Carter was more conservative than Bush. Republicans are so upside down right now they don't even know what they stand for.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That guy was a real groundbreaker. They should put him on a coin or something.

Better idea: break some ground & put him under it.

If only the good really die young, Carter may live to be 250.

[panerd]

This is like watching an AFC and an NFC fan sit around and argue who is worse: The Lions or the Bengals? Can't we just agree that Bush and Carter both sucked?

[Butter]

Did they have the fish or chicken?

Ah yes I remember, I had the lasagna.

[JPhillips]

That's what I found through the magic of googling as well, but I did find indications that it may be a bit of a legend. There's no evidence that he said it. There are accounts of him putting his hand on a Bible and kissing it after taking the oath, but no accounts of him actually saying those words.

But Franklin Pierce affirmed the oath (rather than swear to it) and did not put his hand on the Bible. Herbert Hoover used a Bible, but he affirmed the oath as well.

I also read that JQ Adams used a book on the constitution instead of a Bible.

[KWhit]

I also read that JQ Adams used a book on the constitution instead of a Bible.

Oooo. I like that!

[CraigSca]

I agree with that. We have term limits for Presidents, Governors, state Legislatures and Mayors, but not for federal Legislatures?

WHAT?! But then we'd have people without EXPERIENCE in Congress!!! The world would end!

[Buccaneer]

WHAT?! But then we'd have people without EXPERIENCE in Congress!!! The world would end!

I would rather have some bringing in real-world, decision-making experience (like some in Obama's cabinet) and then look around the Washington system and say, "that's stupid, get out of my face". Problem is, we elect waaayyyy too many lawyers, whom are ripe for butt licking from lobbyists, that perpetuate a bad system. So there. :)

[ISiddiqui]

What, like Obama? ;)

[flere-imsaho]

There's got to be a way to write a lobbying bill in such a way that lobbyists (in either a state legislature or Congress) wouldn't have inordinate sway over term-limited legislators.

I used to be very anti-term limits for primarily this reason, but in the past decade or so I've come around to the other side. I don't think the founders ever intended for us to have career politicians, and I don't think having career politicians does us a lot of good. I'd much rather do anything to move to a model where Congress is composed of a group of civic-minded citizens taking a few years out to represent their "neighbors".

Hrm, that sounded pretty naive and idealistic. Must be the new pony I just got from Barack Obama. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

There's got to be a way to write a lobbying bill in such a way that lobbyists (in either a state legislature or Congress) wouldn't have inordinate sway over term-limited legislators.

I used to be very anti-term limits for primarily this reason, but in the past decade or so I've come around to the other side. I don't think the founders ever intended for us to have career politicians, and I don't think having career politicians does us a lot of good. I'd much rather do anything to move to a model where Congress is composed of a group of civic-minded citizens taking a few years out to represent their "neighbors".

Hrm, that sounded pretty naive and idealistic. Must be the new pony I just got from Barack Obama. :D


you got a pony?? i want my 40 acres and a mule!!

[larrymcg421]

I don't htink term limits are a good idea. I understand the thought process behind them that getting rid of corrupt career politicians will bring in Jimmy Stewart, but I think there's a limitless supply of corrupt jerkoffs that will take over. I mean, look at what happened when Rostenkowski was finally forced out due to legal trouble. The guy we eventually ended up with in that seat was Blago.

Plus, it takes responsibility away from the voters. If the voters don't want a guy in there for a career, they should get off their asses and vote him out. Jowever, if they love their representative, why shouldn't they be allowed to keep him/her? I'm completely opposed to any law thta would take that right away from the voters. I actually think the 22nd Amendment should be repealed for this reason.

[Fighter of Foo]

How about more representatives? Congresscritters represent some hundreds of thousands of people and it's obviously not effective as they don't give two shits what you, I or any citizen who's not a top donor thinks.

What if we mandated the proportion of representatives to keep adding them as the population grows? In New Hampshire, their house has 400 reps for 1.3 million people. The US Congress is 435 for 300 million. If there were say 2000 reps, it'd be much more difficult for lobbyists to, well, lobby. And it would be easier for normal people to do so. And that would be a good thing.

[SackAttack]

How about more representatives? Congresscritters represent some hundreds of thousands of people and it's obviously not effective as they don't give two shits what you, I or any citizen who's not a top donor thinks.

What if we mandated the proportion of representatives to keep adding them as the population grows? In New Hampshire, their house has 400 reps for 1.3 million people. The US Congress is 435 for 300 million. If there were say 2000 reps, it'd be much more difficult for lobbyists to, well, lobby. And it would be easier for normal people to do so. And that would be a good thing.

Where would you seat them? Or would this be more of a 'stay in the home district and tele-vote' proposal?

[Fighter of Foo]

Where would you seat them? Or would this be more of a 'stay in the home district and tele-vote' proposal?

They can use lawn chairs and sit outside for all I care. We saw yesterday there's room for a million people out there.

[Coffee Warlord]

How about more representatives? Congresscritters represent some hundreds of thousands of people and it's obviously not effective as they don't give two shits what you, I or any citizen who's not a top donor thinks.

What if we mandated the proportion of representatives to keep adding them as the population grows? In New Hampshire, their house has 400 reps for 1.3 million people. The US Congress is 435 for 300 million. If there were say 2000 reps, it'd be much more difficult for lobbyists to, well, lobby. And it would be easier for normal people to do so. And that would be a good thing.

Interestingly...

1830 US Population: 12,785,928, 1832 House: 240 members. Roughly 50,000 people per congressional rep.

Versus roughly 690,000 people per congressional rep nowadays.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If there were say 2000 reps, it'd be much more difficult for lobbyists to, well, lobby.

And considering how much trouble we have finding 500 or so with even half enough sense to be anywhere near actual decision making, I can only imagine what a gigantic cluster trying to find 2000 would be.

All I can see that doing is expanding the number of idiots involved in the process & that's never really beneficial to anybody except the idiots.

[SackAttack]

And considering how much trouble we have finding 500 or so with even half enough sense to be anywhere near actual decision making, I can only imagine what a gigantic cluster trying to find 2000 would be.

All I can see that doing is expanding the number of idiots involved in the process & that's never really beneficial to anybody except the idiots.

My God, I agree with Jon on something.

This can't be good.

[Fighter of Foo]

And considering how much trouble we have finding 500 or so with even half enough sense to be anywhere near actual decision making, I can only imagine what a gigantic cluster trying to find 2000 would be.

All I can see that doing is expanding the number of idiots involved in the process & that's never really beneficial to anybody except the idiots.

Rebuttal: Law of large numbers. The larger the number of idiots the more likely they are to end up on the correct result. One idiot in charge = bad Many idiots = not quite as bad.

That's the best I've got.

I'll stop with the fantasy talk now.

[Noop]

How about we just do away with lobbyist?

[sterlingice]

How about more representatives? Congresscritters represent some hundreds of thousands of people and it's obviously not effective as they don't give two shits what you, I or any citizen who's not a top donor thinks.

What if we mandated the proportion of representatives to keep adding them as the population grows? In New Hampshire, their house has 400 reps for 1.3 million people. The US Congress is 435 for 300 million. If there were say 2000 reps, it'd be much more difficult for lobbyists to, well, lobby. And it would be easier for normal people to do so. And that would be a good thing.

I actually think this line of thought it decent.

Term limits are interesting in that on one side you have the career politician problem whereas on the other you might as well be just doing American Idol for half of your time as if it's just a popularity contest for the first of only two terms.

That said- there need to be less perks to being in office so it's not as desirable for those looking for power and influence.

And the bigger thing is that the incumbent advantage needs to be taken away or at least limited. Seemingly no one likes their folks in Congress, judging by approval ratings. However, 80-90% of these yahoos are re-elected due to huge built in advantages in influence, fund raising, and just simply name recognition. You can at least affect change with the first two of those- but good luck getting Congress to vote against their own interests.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

How about we just do away with lobbyist?

There does happen to be that pesky 1st Amendment.

[Subby]

How about we just do away with lobbyist?
Legislative staffs lean VERY heavily on lobbyists both to help them write legislation and to become educated on the technical minutae of whatever specialized knowledge is being legislated. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seemingly no one likes their folks in Congress, judging by approval ratings.

Wrong.

Nobody likes everybody else's people in Congress. By & large they like their own Rep/Sen just fine.

[Noop]

There does happen to be that pesky 1st Amendment.

Freedom of Speech? How about nothing buying influence?

[Noop]

Legislative staffs lean VERY heavily on lobbyists both to help them write legislation and to become educated on the technical minutae of whatever specialized knowledge is being legislated. It's a symbiotic relationship.

Interesting.

[RedKingGold]

Legislative staffs lean VERY heavily on lobbyists both to help them write legislation and to become educated on the technical minutae of whatever specialized knowledge is being legislated. It's a symbiotic relationship.

Gosh, it's like you know a lobbyist or two or something.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Interesting.

Isn't that pretty much common knowledge, at least among the subset of the population that knows what a lobbyist is?

[Noop]

Isn't that pretty much common knowledge, at least among the subset of the population that knows what a lobbyist is?

I knew that but the term symbiotic is not a term I would use unless it meant that the lobbyist pay and the congressmen receives.

[ISiddiqui]

Freedom of Speech? How about nothing buying influence?

One has not read Buckley v. Valeo, I see.

[Subby]

I knew that but the term symbiotic is not a term I would use unless it meant that the lobbyist pay and the congressmen receives.
It just means that it's a mutually beneficial relationship. It goes beyond money.

[ISiddiqui]

Wrong.

Nobody likes everybody else's people in Congress. By & large they like their own Rep/Sen just fine.

Bingo.

[RainMaker]

Legislative staffs lean VERY heavily on lobbyists both to help them write legislation and to become educated on the technical minutae of whatever specialized knowledge is being legislated. It's a symbiotic relationship.

That shouldn't happen though. If a legislator or their staff needs to become educated on a topic, they should be able to hire people to research or educate them. A lobbyist has a vested interest in the legislation and will never give a fair view of the topic.

When you hire a contractor to fix something in your house, you shop around for estimates and do some research. You don't bring in the first guy to show up at your door, hand him your credit card and tell him to bill you whatever he thinks is right since he's the expert.

[Fighter of Foo]

You're not Congress.

[RainMaker]

Wrong.

Nobody likes everybody else's people in Congress. By & large they like their own Rep/Sen just fine.

That's probably the biggest issue we face in trying to fix the deficit. We all hate the debt and hate the excess spending. But we love it when our Representatives bring home that money to our district.

[RainMaker]

And the bigger thing is that the incumbent advantage needs to be taken away or at least limited. Seemingly no one likes their folks in Congress, judging by approval ratings. However, 80-90% of these yahoos are re-elected due to huge built in advantages in influence, fund raising, and just simply name recognition. You can at least affect change with the first two of those- but good luck getting Congress to vote against their own interests.


Lets not forget heavily gerrymandered districts. For the most part, there are only 100 districts that even have the ability to be competitive. Typically much less in a regular election.

The two party system also makes it difficult to replace someone. The system can claim to be democratic, but it inches closer and closer to Russian style democracy every year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That shouldn't happen though. If a legislator or their staff needs to become educated on a topic, they should be able to hire people to research or educate them. A lobbyist has a vested interest in the legislation and will never give a fair view of the topic.

And the resulting legislation that results isn't likely to be all that different from what we see now, but with the added significant cost of the researchers, research, management of said employees, benefits (cause you know they aren't going to be allowed to use freelancers long since it'd be perceived as anti-union), and so forth is a waste of time, money, and maybe most importantly expertise since the lobbyists (and their employers) have ready access to experts already whereas Congress would need 42 committee meetings to figure out what the standards are & how many set asides the hirings should have. And that's just to get started trying to find out whatever it is they need to know, never mind getting it done.

But the real reason that the end result wouldn't likely change is because you're overlooking the reality that politicians are going to ultimately go with whatever benefits them most. And they'll find that benefit whether it's through the current lobbyist setup or through three additional layers of middlemen who influence the hiring process for researchers, the access to information, etc.

In the end, lobbyists are just people doing their job same as everybody else. And like most professions, their job is to satisfy some human need, in this case satisfying whatever desire politicos have, be that money, power, fame, influence, whatever. The problem with lobbyists isn't about them, it's about human nature.

And I'm thinking robo-Reps are still at least one generation away from being accepted.

[SFL Cat]

Dude, I figured you would seen it down at the local Klan office. :D

Nope...the eye holes in my new hood aren't quite right...can't see a thing. :p

[RedKingGold]

One has not read Buckley v. Valeo, I see.

Nobody likes a legal snob.

[ISiddiqui]

Snark tends to get answered by snark.

[flere-imsaho]

PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION!!! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation)

:D

[Autumn]

Obama's first executive orders seemed relevant to this discussion of lobbyists. Per the NYT:

"The new president also moved to fulfill his campaign pledge to end the so-called revolving door, the longstanding Washington practice whereby White House officials depart for the private sector and cash in on their connections by lobbying former colleagues.

In what ethics-in-government advocates described as a particularly far-reaching move, Mr. Obama barred officials of his administration from lobbying their former colleagues “for as long as I am president.” He barred former lobbyists from working for agencies they had lobbied within the past two years and required them to recuse themselves from issues they had handled during that time. "

These first days are symbolic, I know, but it is encouraging to me that he's making an effort to change the culture of Washington. I think that's just what we need. I think if he can keep up the momentum then he'll keep regular citizens putting the pressure on Washington and we might see some shift in how things are done.

[lungs]

OMG!@!!!


They didn't use a bible at the do-over (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/21/AR2009012103685_pf.html)!!!

More proof he is a Moslem.

I love how Drudge makes a big deal about it.

[JediKooter]

You mean it's actually possible to take an oath without a religious book having to be present? This is NOT what the founding fathers had in mind.

[RainMaker]

OMG!@!!!


They didn't use a bible at the do-over (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/21/AR2009012103685_pf.html)!!!

More proof he is a Moslem.

I love how Drudge makes a big deal about it.

If you read Drudge before the election, you'd be certain McCain would win. He'd always pull out the one poll out of 10,000 that had McCain doing well and plaster it on the site like crazy. Nate Silver had a field day tearing that hack apart.

[Scoobz0202]

Tangent: I just saw a clip of I think the Neighborhood Ball and it was of the president and the first lady dancing to Beyonce singing At Last.

I didn't realize Beyonce had that... voice... BUT GAWD DAYUM! It was beautiful..

[Buccaneer]

Great photo, awesome technology, a 1,474-Megapixel Photo.


http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c

Zooming in, I spotted the Invisible Man, Two-Face and a Walking Legs.

[Subby]

that is really cool...

[Subby]

That shouldn't happen though. If a legislator or their staff needs to become educated on a topic, they should be able to hire people to research or educate them. A lobbyist has a vested interest in the legislation and will never give a fair view of the topic.

When you hire a contractor to fix something in your house, you shop around for estimates and do some research. You don't bring in the first guy to show up at your door, hand him your credit card and tell him to bill you whatever he thinks is right since he's the expert.
That's an unbelievably simplistic view of the issue and a poor analogy.

Good legislators get input from all sides. You cannot create legislation in a vacuum. That's a horrible way to legislate.

[JPhillips]

Great photo, awesome technology, a 1,474-Megapixel Photo.


http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c

Zooming in, I spotted the Invisible Man, Two-Face and a Walking Legs.

I remember seeing a guy on Sunday Morning a few years ago that did this sort of thing with WWII surveillance cameras. I don't remember exactly, but each shot he digitized was several gigabytes worth of info.

[Mustang]

Zooming in, I spotted the Invisible Man, Two-Face and a Walking Legs.

I found two-face.

twelve o'clock from Obama is a Packer Hat.

[cuervo72]

Great photo, awesome technology, a 1,474-Megapixel Photo.


http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c

Zooming in, I spotted the Invisible Man, Two-Face and a Walking Legs.

Bah - you can't even read the sheet music clearly!


(that IS really cool)

[Mustang]

I haven't found Oprah yet though.

[RainMaker]

That's an unbelievably simplistic view of the issue and a poor analogy.

Good legislators get input from all sides. You cannot create legislation in a vacuum. That's a horrible way to legislate.
I'm not suggesting a vacuum. I'm suggesting that legislators put the best interest of the country in their decisions and not a handful of people.

The last Medicare bill is a perfect example of this. The bill was written to literally screw over every taxpayer in this country. Not allowed to negotiate prices on prescriptions? That is absolutely insane. Especially considering how much buying power the government would have with these companies.

Creating laws that would limit the incentives involved with dealing with lobbyists would help alleviate this mess. Restricting jobs after terms are up, donations, and so on. Since the "democratic" system we have in place is not built for change, we must create laws that help limit what the crooks in power can get away with.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bah - you can't even read the sheet music clearly!


LOL, that's exactly what I tried to see just how far down this thing would go.

[Klinglerware]

I found two-face.

twelve o'clock from Obama is a Packer Hat.

Is two-face different from the guy with two heads? (He's a few rows behind GWB and Cheney)...

[Dutch]

That's an amazing picture!

[Mustang]

Is two-face different from the guy with two heads? (He's a few rows behind GWB and Cheney)...

There is another guy up (twelve o'clock) from Obama that has 4 sets of eyes.

Also, is Clarence Thomas sleeping???

[JPhillips]

I saw Thomas as well.