FOFC Deeproute League [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

gstelmack

03-06-2009, 08:26 AM

As noted in this thread (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=59462), the developer of Deeproute, an online web-based football text sim that is free-to-play for the basics (you can pay to open up certain aspects of the game, which supports development) has come along looking for customers and soliciting feedback. He's agreed to open up an FOFC-only league if we have 10-12 interested owners. So, if you are interested in joining the league and providing honest feedback to the developer to help him improve the game (something FOFC has never had a problem doing in the past :D ), post here.

I'm in.

The developer is also the guy who runs the horse racing sim over at SimulatedSports.com - Free Online Sports Simulations And Sports Games including Football, Horse Racing, and Basketball (http://simulatedsports.net/), which also hosts the college basketball game several of us have played in the past.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 168pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1 x:str=""><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 78pt" width=104><COL style="WIDTH: 90pt" width=120><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="WIDTH: 78pt; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=104 height=18>FOFC_name</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 90pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=120>deeproute_name</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>gstelmack</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">gstelmack</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>rjolley</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">rjolley</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>fantom1979</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">fantom1979</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>RPI-Fan</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">rsr28</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>lordscarlet</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">lordscarlet</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>Bisbo</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">Bisbo</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>larrymcg421</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">larrymcg</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>DeToxRox</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">DeToxRox</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>sachmo71</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>SirFozzie</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">SirFozzie</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>21C</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">21c</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>dbd1963</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">dbd1963</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>wade moore</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">wademoore</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>eiskrap</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">Eiskrap</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>Raiders Army</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">Richardweed</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>ageofquarrel</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">ageofquarrel</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>TimGuru</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">TimGuru</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>Autumn</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">autumn</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>Racer</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">Racer</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt" height=18><TD style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=18>Chief Rum</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">chiefrum</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

rjolley

03-06-2009, 08:45 AM

I'll join if you need someone, but I don't want to take a spot from someone new to the game. I currently have a couple of teams, so I'll just follow the dynasty whenever someone decides to do one. :)

fantom1979

03-06-2009, 08:47 AM

I would be interested in joining... i just made a team in another league, so if I am able to move that team, or create a new team, that would be great. My username is the same over there.

RPI-Fan

03-06-2009, 08:52 AM

lordscarlet

03-06-2009, 10:00 AM

I would definitely be in.

Bisbo

03-06-2009, 12:44 PM

I'm interested in giving this a try.

larrymcg421

03-06-2009, 12:58 PM

I'm interested.

DeToxRox

03-06-2009, 01:12 PM

Never played but I would love to be in.

sachmo71

03-06-2009, 02:22 PM

lordscarlet

03-06-2009, 03:33 PM

Never played but I would love to be in.
I think that's the boat most of us are in. :) I treied it during the beta but I don't know that I got past the preseason.

SirFozzie

03-06-2009, 06:08 PM

I;m in

Schmidty

03-06-2009, 07:14 PM

This thread is begging for a parody. I won't do it though.

21C

03-06-2009, 07:19 PM

I would be interested in joining... i just made a team in another league, so if I am able to move that team, or create a new team, that would be great. My username is the same over there.
Same here. Only just signed up for a second team - I'd be happy to drop that team to get in this league.

dbd1963

03-06-2009, 09:58 PM

I will try it again.

wade moore

03-07-2009, 09:18 AM

I'm in if there is still space.

gstelmack

03-07-2009, 11:36 AM

We certainly seem to have the required 10-12, so a 16-team league would probably work well for us. I'll ping billgulch.

billgulch

03-07-2009, 12:01 PM

Hey Guys!

First off, thank you for your willingness to try the game and help give me feedback to improve it.

I will open a new league for you guys to start joining Tuesday. Before I do, however, I'd like a general consensus as to what sort of league you guys would like. The information I need is :

* On what days should it process (it can process weekly.. daily.. any combination of days throughout the week)

* I am assuming you guys want the realistic injuries and realistic contract negotiations?

* Do you want a 16 or 32 team league? I can open a 32 team league to allow for growth and fill any of the leftover with CPU coaches, though they are generally pretty uncompetitive after the initial season (somewhat by design, incoming new owners will have a lot of cap room)
Once I get the league started, I can post back here and let you guys know it is available.

Since it is a private league, I will need to get you guys passwords for the league. I can post the passwords publicly here (as they are user specific). Just post in this thread with your DeepRoute user name (you'll have to sign up at http://deeproute.com (http://deeproute.com/) if you haven't already done so), and I will respond with the correct passwords once the league is ready for signups. If you already have a Deeproute team, just let me know and I will bump you up and allow you to get another. Per my initial post, I will start all owners in the league out with $10 worth of free game credits. This will allow you extra time to see and take advantage of all of the game's features. Also, if it's OK and you have room, I will manage a team myself... that way I can see exactly the same things you guys do. :)

You guys will be on the "ground floor" of a new league, which has options existing leagues don't have. The initial draft uses a "weighting system" by position and experience. This is simply a way to get things "going quickly" since, as many of you know, an initial league draft can prove pretty cumbersome. It can seem overwhelming but, if you choose not to use it or use the basic selection method, you'll still get a pretty balanced team. We can run the draft after we feel enough people from the site that want to join have done so.

This is the first time I've kicked off a new league in a few months, and have made some modifications to parts of the code and database layouts since then. I'm assuming it will all go through just fine but, if something does go goofy, I'll keep you updated and fix it ASAP. ;)

Thanks again! I look forward to your participation!

--Mike

wade moore

03-07-2009, 12:05 PM

Username: wademoore

It's my old account, but no teams so I should be good there.

DeToxRox

03-07-2009, 12:16 PM

Username: DeToxRox .. Just opened it so I have no existing teams.

dbd1963

03-07-2009, 12:57 PM

Username: dbd1963

Oh yes, the other bits - I prefer 32 teams. I'm open to whatever with the salary and injuries.

eiskrap

03-07-2009, 01:16 PM

If you go for a 32 users, I'm in Username: Eiskrap

Bisbo

03-07-2009, 01:44 PM

Username: Bisbo

rjolley

03-07-2009, 01:46 PM

rjolley over there as well.

I'm good with a 32 team league. I like the leagues that process daily.

wade moore

03-07-2009, 02:04 PM

Username: dbd1963

Oh yes, the other bits - I prefer 32 teams. I'm open to whatever with the salary and injuries.

rjolley over there as well.

I'm good with a 32 team league. I like the leagues that process daily.

As much as I'd hate uncompetitive 32 team leagues, I'm thinking a smaller league doesn't give us the best view of the game? I'm thinking if a lot of the goal here is constructive feedback we should be matching as closely to a "standard" league as possible? Knowing this crew, even if we don't start with 32 it wouldn't take us long to get there.

So with salaries, etc - I'd like whatever the "standard" is. I think for our first league and trying to give feedback on the game that's the best route.

Raiders Army

03-07-2009, 02:18 PM

I'm game. username: Richardweed

rjolley

03-07-2009, 02:37 PM

I believe the current NFL format is the "standard" size.

ageofquarrel

03-07-2009, 02:44 PM

Would be into giving this a try username: ageofquarrel

gstelmack

03-07-2009, 03:27 PM

username: gstelmack

32 teams, realistic financials seems to be the consensus and the settings we'll go with.

As for schedule, I'm sure we'll be all over the map, but with most FOF leagues being either daily or MWF, my initial thought is a TuThSa schedule, but I could also be talked into a MTWTF if people want a faster pace. Weigh in with opinions through tomorrow and we'll make a decision by Sunday night.

SirFozzie

03-07-2009, 04:06 PM

Username:SirFozzie

Registered and good to go

32/realistic is fine by me.

I like the Tue/Thur/Sat schedule, but if folks want a five weekday thing, I'm cool with that as well

TimGuru

03-07-2009, 04:42 PM

u/n: TimGuru

regged

I like the tu/th/sa sched

21C

03-07-2009, 06:10 PM

Username: 21c

I currently have two teams and would like to drop the most recent team I got - LA Cheetahs (lg 9). Timewise I can only handle two teams at the most.

I think we should go with 32 teams with full injuries and salaries/bonuses.

I personally prefer leagues that sim daily but I am happy to go with any option.

RPI-Fan

03-07-2009, 10:42 PM

username: rsr28

defer to the majority on everything else

fantom1979

03-07-2009, 10:45 PM

username: fantom1979

larrymcg421

03-08-2009, 08:04 AM

username: larrymcg

gstelmack

03-08-2009, 11:46 AM

Is there anyone that WANTS a league that only sims 3 days per week? Seems we have a mix of "3 days sounds good" and "I'd prefer every day, but willing to do 3 days". At this point I'm tempted to say we should sim Monday through Friday every day.

RPI-Fan

03-08-2009, 02:30 PM

DeToxRox

03-08-2009, 02:31 PM

5 days works

Autumn

03-08-2009, 04:17 PM

I'd like to give this a try if there's still slots. I'm okay with whatever settings people decide on, though I'd tend to 3 sims a week just because I'm worried about overcommitting. I'm assuming though that things will work on autopilot fairly well if I can't get to it for a day or two.

Username: autumn

Raiders Army

03-08-2009, 04:29 PM

I'm good with weekdays.

Can the first post be updated with who's in the league?

ageofquarrel

03-08-2009, 05:30 PM

I would also prefer a 5 day schedule

wade moore

03-08-2009, 07:32 PM

I'd prefer a 5 day schedule.

gstelmack

03-08-2009, 07:55 PM

Can the first post be updated with who's in the league?

If I get a chance to comb through. I think everybody will get in just fine though.

Racer

03-08-2009, 09:15 PM

If there's still room, I'll give it a try.

Username: Racer

Chief Rum

03-08-2009, 09:32 PM

I'll give this a try, too, if there's room.

Username: chiefrum

That name might actually come up in the simulatedsports database, since I was a longtime player of the old college bball game a few years back.

21C

03-09-2009, 12:38 AM

Can the first post be updated with who's in the league?
Feel free to add this to the first post.
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</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">SirFozzie</td> <td style="text-align: center;">SirFozzie</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">21C</td> <td style="text-align: center;">21c</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">dbd1963</td> <td style="text-align: center;">dbd1963</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">wade moore</td> <td style="text-align: center;">wademoore</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">eiskrap</td> <td style="text-align: center;">Eiskrap</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">Raiders Army</td> <td style="text-align: center;">Richardweed</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">ageofquarrel</td> <td style="text-align: center;">ageofquarrel</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">TimGuru</td> <td style="text-align: center;">TimGuru</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">Autumn</td> <td style="text-align: center;">autumn</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">Racer</td> <td style="text-align: center;">Racer</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;" height="18"> <td style="height: 13.5pt; text-align: center;" height="18">Chief Rum</td> <td style="text-align: center;">chiefrum</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

gstelmack

03-09-2009, 07:02 AM

Thanks, done.

lordscarlet

03-09-2009, 09:41 AM

3-5 days is good with me. 3 days including a weekend day is good, but if it's more than that (we could consider 4 days? MTuThF maybe?) I think should be all weekdays. I can do everyday, though.

What time would sims be?

And someone posted it above, but in case you didn't get it, my username on the site is lordscarlet (which y ou already know :) )

billgulch

03-09-2009, 11:44 AM

Thank you guys again for trying things out.

I have set the league up for realistic salary negotiations, real injuries, and a M-F schedule.

Be brutally honest; if there's something you really dislike or find wrong, let me know and I'll move it to the top of my "fix list." (I am currently considring changes to the "drop down" menu to better group related actions). If it's something you dislike but can live with, still let me know and I'll at least make a note of it for future modification. All I ask is that you guys keep in mind that I'm one guy (that is currently running 2 online games and trying to overhaul the backend of one while improving the frontend of the other), so changes may take time. ;)

Again, I haven't had a "new league" run in months, so some of the mods I've made since then may cause an unexpected problem or two. If you see anything, let me know ASAP. Assuming everything does work alright, however :

Simply log in to your account and choose the "Click here to sign up for a new team or view team openings" button. After hitting this button, scroll down to the FOFC Appreciation League (#15). Click the sign up button.

On the next screen simply pick a team and scroll to the bottom of the page. Enter the series of character listed next to your user name below (copying and pasting recommended; make sure you have no trailing spaces).

You should then be able to confirm your team. Once you do that, you can change your helmet / team name /cityname and employee different draft strategies. Simply scroll over "My Teams+" and your team name. your options will appear to the right.

I will award all of you guys $10 worth of game credits once the draft is completed.

Below is a list of all usernames and passwords listed in the top message. You guys may want to "spread out" across different divisions / etc; we probably don't an entire division full of CPU teams. If you need to be added or need me to give the ability to open up a second team, just post your DeepRoute.com user name in this thread with your request. I have assumed sachmo71 will eventually create and account named sachmo71. ;)

billgulch - 3523d606a69aa9f1e5d634a92b9abcd6
gstelmack - 74acf7393816c8f30d0b28eac15537b4
rjolley - 90f70cdd7efb0cafb5e72e3cec461912
fantom1979 - 4280b2ac2ff31cda4503dbe5f12529cf
rsr28 - 9621002e865bc3e9b3bd1d0ceec7f77b
lordscarlet - c2fa24d0a1056b6b5d8c3c96f6b54043
bisbo - ee799d32649e711f6bc6150c728d1de1
larrymcg - d225ec161248f49eae0dc9b96e07902c
detoxrox - f9ee68a6645c40c5fdaae3a58de18e4d
sachmo71 - 7e99131dcc3c188a0ab5280d11ca4fb3
sirfozzie - 0eeedb5dc8b885cb5578beb867e2249c
21c - 5feafdea6062b1b62e1027f6ad434e41
dbd1963 - 85966b2d4c38c28ad8b6852979387685
wademoore - f919b09a8bb7c6e1904397723231598a
eiskrap - 8e769a00edc724a938fd8ee324d6824b
richardweed - 5d91bd1bfa9b2367d3ed43c3e5a221bf
ageofquarrel - 1fa6dab7428479e513c3c96cc133227c
timguru - e715d6a2027373f3d6f39f4f28da07a4
autumn - cfccfa4638c59a237f2c27d7dd59bd69
racer - d07832b55a3742bf0b9a4338071c5065
chiefrum - 87c6280b7d5d3fdc1fcb4d8f5172bc6a

I have the league set to "kick off" after 15 people have signed up. I can reduce that number if need be.

Thanks again!

--Mike

Autumn

03-09-2009, 12:39 PM

Fantastic, I'm in, in the Democratic North ;-)

marcmoustache2

03-09-2009, 12:40 PM

I'm up for it, deeproute username is marc

billgulch

03-09-2009, 12:56 PM

Here ya go Marc!

marc - e92d39c6278996521f3f262328746b00

gstelmack

03-09-2009, 01:00 PM

Clicking "Initial Draft Strategy" just takes me to the main page for my team. Is this because we aren't started yet?

Uploading a new helmet was a bit confusing, in that you click the button on the upload dialog to apply the helmet to the team, but then you separately need to Save the team data as well for it to actually apply. But I figured it out finally.

billgulch

03-09-2009, 01:18 PM

Hey Greg!

(I think it should be a bit less confusing on the initial draft strategy thing.. check it out now..)

I think I see what you're saying about "taking you back to the main page". Scroll down a bit; you should see the draft choices under there. I'll see what I can do to make that a little less confusing looking.

I'll put "clean up the change team info" routine on my list. :)

--Mike

gstelmack

03-09-2009, 01:27 PM

I see them now, thanks!

And yes, the change team info thing for the helmet bitmap is low priority.

gstelmack

03-09-2009, 01:43 PM

I will say that the "From the Office" reminder on that main page telling me to set the initial draft strategy is a nice reminder.

(When I mention "push" models around here, that's one of the examples).

lordscarlet

03-09-2009, 01:44 PM

I see them now, thanks!

And yes, the change team info thing for the helmet bitmap is low priority.

Another low priority item, but I would suggest one or two things on the helmet. 1: put the template for making your own helmet on that page somewhere. 2: way low priority, but perhaps some sort of system where you can upload a transparent gif to go on the helmet. Then choose your helmet fading colors and automagically generate the helmet. The main issue is that you may have account for clipping the image off the edge of the helmet and rotation somehow.

lordscarlet

03-09-2009, 01:45 PM

dola: Under the discussion dropdown, will it always say "League 15" or will it change? Seems like it should show the actual league name.

Autumn

03-09-2009, 02:13 PM

I see we're filling up. Let's make sure we spread out between divisions. Maybe no more than two per division until we fill it up that much?

I've found things very understandable so far. I see what people have said about the UI, in that it doesn't jump out at me how I'm going to get to things. Like I initially wanted to just see the league, which owners were in, etc. I figured out several ways to get to that screen but I expected something more prominent and central that would show me the league teams. So far I haven't been stuck on anything, and I don't have a suggestion yet how it could be better but I'll think on it.

I've played around wtih my initial draft options and I like that set up. I think it's key that you've got the combination of EZ set up and tech setup and especially that you can combine the two. That's perfect.

My only qualm so far is the Age Factor setting, that varies from 0 to 1 in decimal increments. That's the one part of the draft matrix that seems overkill to me. I feel like it would take a lot of effort and thought for me to be able to use that in any sensible way. Maybe something more intuitive there, allowing you to choose from the spectrum of experienced players. Or just a simple toggle--do you want to care about age, or simply talent? That was the decision I made with it. I'd have no idea whether to set it on .1 or .3 or .5.

SirFozzie

03-09-2009, 02:32 PM

The Tennesse Thunderwolves are ready to take a bite out of the Republican South :)

lordscarlet

03-09-2009, 03:14 PM

I see we're filling up. Let's make sure we spread out between divisions. Maybe no more than two per division until we fill it up that much?

Forgive me for not being an expert in MP play, but would it not be better to fill up divisions with human players? That way you're not just a bunch of people dominating CPU teams (in theory)? Although, then I guess you have a bunch of CPU teams in the playoffs. I just knew I wanted to have Wade as a rival, and be on the east coast (and perhaps not be playing against the creator of the game for my first ever season ;) ).

I've found things very understandable so far. I see what people have said about the UI, in that it doesn't jump out at me how I'm going to get to things. Like I initially wanted to just see the league, which owners were in, etc. I figured out several ways to get to that screen but I expected something more prominent and central that would show me the league teams. So far I haven't been stuck on anything, and I don't have a suggestion yet how it could be better but I'll think on it.

Yeah. I wonder if there is, perhaps, a bug. If I go to My Teams > District Stars (Processing) > League Status, it takes me to the list of all leagues. It seems, based on the wording and the URL, that maybe the intention is to take you to DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com (http://deeproute.com/?sel=availablelg&leagueno=15)

Actually, it looks like the problem is that the menu dropdown has "myleagueno" instead of "leagueno".

lordscarlet

03-09-2009, 03:44 PM

I have the league set to "kick off" after 15 people have signed up. I can reduce that number if need be.

What does "kick off" mean? We're already at 11 and I want to make sure we don't want to increase that number so that people can get their teams setup before the draft.

marcmoustache2

03-09-2009, 03:50 PM

Here ya go Marc!

marc - e92d39c6278996521f3f262328746b00

Thanks!

Passacaglia

03-09-2009, 03:59 PM

Can I still get in? I'm on there as pascal.

Thomkal

03-09-2009, 04:05 PM

I've joined, but havent set up a team yet. My account over there is under my Legions screenname, cause that's my main name over at the horseracing game. Figure since I've been so high on the horseracing game, I should finally give the football game a shot.

billgulch

03-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Hey Guys!

I'll try to check into the things you mentioned and answer your questions later this evening or tomorrow at the latest. I have the league set so it won't start until I tell it to (I'll define roll-over tomorrow as well... :) ). Until then :

pascal - fe783d0614dae66162ad70c78506058a
legions - dd87af2cc85ceb983bbabc42d73f815d

Thanks guys!

--Mike

Raiders Army

03-09-2009, 05:32 PM

Very nice. Thanks for the setup Mike.

I'm in the Republican West as the Walla Walla Weedeaters.

Autumn

03-09-2009, 05:44 PM

Hopefully it won't be too confusing that I called my team the Racine Legion

Thomkal

03-09-2009, 06:52 PM

Hopefully it won't be too confusing that I called my team the Racine Legion

heh, not confusing for me cause my team is now the Myrtle Beach Hurricanes

Passacaglia

03-09-2009, 08:32 PM

I don't think anyone answered billgulch's question, but I say we let him in the league. :) I don't see his name on the list, but it probably should be.

Anyway, all I've done is sign into the site. Should I be creating a team, or waiting until the league starts for that? Or is there something else I'm supposed to do?

gstelmack

03-09-2009, 08:36 PM

See Bill's instructions above and the keycode he posted for you a few posts up. Grab a team and get your initial draft settings done.

And he's got a team. I joined his division figuring he'd need some company while everyone else avoided that division like the plague...

Karlifornia

03-09-2009, 08:51 PM

If it's not too late, could I join? karlifornia is my username

Raiders Army

03-10-2009, 06:01 AM

The draft strategy is interesting. It took me a good 15 minutes to figure out how the Techno Drafter works though. I was a little confused about how in the selection column you can set your preferences for Current/Potential and the Age Modifier but they don't correspond to the Weight column for Less Exp/Exp players.

Also experienced is mis-spelled in a couple places:

A player's talent is a number between 0 and 99 and based on the player's talent versus other players at his position (the players and their talents will not be seen before the assigning of players takes place). This is the number the game will use when making a determiniation on when to pick a player. For the less experinced groupings, you can choose to "Potential" or "Current." Choosing "Potential" means you would prefer the game to assign this grouping based more on how good those players can potentially (not necessarily!) become. Choosing "Current" means you would prefer the game to assign this grouping more on how good a player currently is. For the experinced groupings, you can select an "AgeMod" This modifier is used to put more emphasis on younger players (as younger players generally have less experience). The modifier is a number between 0 and 1. If 0 is selected, the years of experience a player has played is not factored in (only his "Current Talent" is used). If a number other than 0 is used, you will multiply a player's current talent by the factor :

Thomkal

03-10-2009, 07:26 AM

Yes Mike has some issues with spelling. :)

Neon_Chaos

03-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Darn. I missed this. Is there still room?

NeonChaos is my handle.

Thomkal

03-10-2009, 07:48 AM

Thomkal

03-10-2009, 07:49 AM

there's still room Neon

Neon_Chaos

03-10-2009, 07:54 AM

Sweet. I'd like to join

Username: NeonChaos

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 08:42 AM

As of right now there are still 13 slots available. There may be 1 or 2 teams that have not been claimed but people have asked for (such as Neon Chaos), but there's still plenty of room for people to join in.

larrymcg421

03-10-2009, 08:47 AM

The Melbourne Manatees are in and ready to go.

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 09:25 AM

On the Techno Drafter screen I would suggest a slightly different layout (although part of that suggestion is also a functionality change).

My suggestion, first, would be to have a factor for both current and potential rating. Rather than have to choose one, I would suggest making it a factor of both, so that current can still be important, but not as much as potential. Maybe that really isn't a significant difference, though.

Second, I would definitely recommend sliders rather than dropdowns. I think it is much easier to visualize that way, and I would also show the "Factor" as an immovable slider as well (that moves as you change the other slider(s)). (I was going to do a sample but then realized I just don't have time right now :) )

I am also a little confused as to what options apply to which items. Does current/potential apply to both Experienced and inexperienced QBs? Does agemod apply to only experienced QBs?

I also can't remember the result, but it seemed pretty easy to manipulate an initial draft when I played before.

When the assigning of players takes place for a grouping, the team with the highest draft factor (with ties broken at random) for that grouping will be assigned the player that best fits their draft preferences, the team with the second highest draft factor will be assigned their player next, etc. until each team has been assigned one player. At that time, the next pick from that grouping will go to the team with the lowest draft factor for that grouping, the following player will be assigned to the team with the second lowest draft factor for that grouping, etc (this is commonly referred to as a "snake draft").

It seems that an unsuspecting set of drafters could be hoodwinked by someone that sets all their draft factors very high and gets the first pick. Is there anything stopping someone from getting all their draft factors near 100 (or whatever the max is) and picking all first rounders ahead of a bunch of teams that use the EZDrafter?

gstelmack

03-10-2009, 09:29 AM

It seems that an unsuspecting set of drafters could be hoodwinked by someone that sets all their draft factors very high and gets the first pick. Is there anything stopping someone from getting all their draft factors near 100 (or whatever the max is) and picking all first rounders ahead of a bunch of teams that use the EZDrafter?

The total amount of all those factors is 1000. It's the number on the far right that matters, and as you increase the weight for a line, every other line's weight drops. There is no way to put them all near 100 and have that benefit you.

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 09:30 AM

It seems that an unsuspecting set of drafters could be hoodwinked by someone that sets all their draft factors very high and gets the first pick. Is there anything stopping someone from getting all their draft factors near 100 (or whatever the max is) and picking all first rounders ahead of a bunch of teams that use the EZDrafter?

Nevermind.

You will notice that increasing your Draft Weight for one grouping will simultaniously increase the Draft Factor for that grouping while decreasing the Draft Factor for all other groupings. That is because your Draft Factors, when added together, must equal 1000 (they may appear to add up to slightly more or less due to rounding, but the unrounded version is used when determining the actual order of assignment).

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 09:37 AM

Having realized that, I think one bar across the top that represents each option would be awesome. With a coloring/bracketing to represent the "total" (or perhaps a pie chart). I think that would be a great way to visualize your weights int he initial draft. As a quick for instance:

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chtt=Initial+Team+Distribution&chts=000000,12&chs=300x150&chf=bg,s,ffffff&cht=p&chd=t:17.39,13.04,17.39,13.04,4.34,4.34,17.39,13.04&chl=QB+Less+Exp%7CQB+Exp%7CRB+Less+Exp%7CRB+Exp%7CFB+Less+Exp%7CFB+Exp%7CWR+Less+Exp%7CWR+Exp&chco=00cc00,00ff00,00ccff,00ffff,99cc00,99ff00,cc3300,cc6600

Edit: But maybe that doesn't accurately represent what the numbers mean?

billgulch

03-10-2009, 10:12 AM

In my defense : I actually spell well. I just type poorly. :P

Let me go through the list for today and see what I can address...

* Fixed the upload helmet to attempt to be a little more intuitive
* Added an "empty helmet" template
* Fixed the league discussion board to include the league name (BTW - what does dola mean?)
* Fixed the "league status" to go directly to the league (that was a typo.. lordscarlet was right...)
* Fixed so new league players can't scrimmage yet (since you don't have a team yet..... ;). That's one of those things I added (scrimmage games) that I needed to do some modding to. There actually may be another change I have to make.. we'll find out once the league kicks in.
* I honestly haven't messed with this initial draft screen since I initiated it.. it is a bit overwhelming... :)
* Fixed those misspellings.. ;)

When I said "kick off", what I mean is that the league is currently "inactive". Once we get a predetermined number of players (I currently have it set to 32), the league will become "active." Once active, it will give you 3 days to modify your draft strategy before running the initial draft.

The AgeMod is only for the experienced players. The "Current / Potential" only applies to the less epxerienced players. Using AgeMod would help keep you from drafting a player high like Brett Favre who is old but still performs at a high level (we won't get into a big "Brett Favre" debate.. :P ). Using Potential over Experience for less experienced players would obviously mean you are focusing on what a guy has the potential to become, not necessarily how good he currently is.

I'll add the "slide bar and pir chart for initial draft" idea to my whiteboard. New leagues are pretty rare (at least right now), but I am hopeful there will be more going forward, so I want this part to be as intuative as possible (given the complexity involved). ;)

..and 2 more passwords :

neonchaos - 1a4cce483fbcc5bc7bcb0a9d4ad023cb
kailifornia - 635aac6be238f61042b3b2352a2bff3a

Hope I covered it all.. let me know if I missed something...

Thanks guys!

--Mike

Neon_Chaos

03-10-2009, 10:29 AM

Thanks Mike.

The Manila Mayhem have joined.

gstelmack

03-10-2009, 10:44 AM

We've got most people signed up, so if it's 3 days between active and initial draft, I'd go ahead and kick the league active. That's plenty of time for the slackers to get their team set up and let a couple more trickle in.

fantom1979

03-10-2009, 11:29 AM

I think I need to have my account changed so I can start another team... This is the message I am getting

DeToxRox

03-10-2009, 11:30 AM

UTorrent .. WAREZ!

fantom1979

03-10-2009, 11:33 AM

Yeah, I decided that posting my entire screen was probably not a good idea :)

Disclaimer: I use uTorrent to download legal files from the interwebs as sanctioned by the the music and movie industries :)

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 12:16 PM

(BTW - what does dola mean?)

Thanks for your excellent level of responsiveness, Mike.

In return I give you: Dola - FOFC Wiki (http://fofc.dangarion.com/index.php?title=Dola)

billgulch

03-10-2009, 12:19 PM

Hey Fantom!

I added it so you can sign up for a second team. If that first team was a mistake, I can chuck it.

I am going to set the league to "activate" later today. This will be a good test, as I have changed quite a few of the database layouts. :)

Thanks again!

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 12:24 PM

Something that is a very low priority suggestion that I have always been fascinated with: Physical location. Actually specifying the lat/long of your stadium, having that visible on a map (of all the teams) and perhaps having timezone shifts/etc affect level of play (the Seahawks/Cardinals effect). A little superfluous, particularly for a game that (I believe) does not take into affect homefield advantage, fan following, etc, but it could be fun.

billgulch

03-10-2009, 12:32 PM

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Good ideas. :)

I do have "homefield advantage" in the game, but not fan following, travel, etc. Those are things I'd love to add as options eventually. I know not everyone is into that sort of thing for different reasons. But they would make great add on options. :)

--Mike

Yeah, I'm not necessarily into them, but I know they are popular options for people. I think it's one of those things that can tilt toward offering too many options/variables to deal with, particularly with an intricately adjustable playbook. However, I think there are definitely people that are interested in it.

billgulch

03-10-2009, 12:59 PM

Hey guys!

I had forgotten exactly how long after I tell the thing to draft that it does. It looks like it will take place tomorrow at some time (after noon EST).

If anyone thinks this is too early, I can move it back a day or so. Otherwise, we'll let it do it's stuff and you guys can start messing with the actual game tomorrow. :)

Just let me know, and thanks again.

--Mike

Passacaglia

03-10-2009, 01:54 PM

Factor = (1 - Factor / 15) ^ (Years of Experience)

Does this mean

Factor = (1 - AgeMod / 15) ^ (Years of Experience)

?

Autumn

03-10-2009, 03:06 PM

Yeah, I was going to ask about that, that's a confusing formula giving Factor twice.

I think perhaps that option should be altered or made intuitive somehow.

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 04:57 PM

Call me slow, but I just figured something out.

Regardless you get 2 experienced QBs, and 2 less experienced QBs? 3 experienced RB, 3 less experienced RBs? Etc? Hm. Not sure how I feel about that. If I want a veteran team, I don't want to grab 2 inexperienced QBs. You can get a young team by setting the agemod low, but if you want an experienced team it seems that you're wasting half your roster on "less experienced" players. I'm also not sure why you can't tell it to emphasise potential (rather than current) for experienced players. I assume that a 5 year guy still has room to grow? Or am I wrong about that?

Why not have a current/potential and agemod for each position and double the number drafted? Or have the experienced/less experienced breakdown that you have now, and allow people to pick the distrubition of the number of players (4 qbs, 6rbs, etc) or am I completely misunderstanding how this works?

Raiders Army

03-10-2009, 05:12 PM

Does this mean

Factor = (1 - AgeMod / 15) ^ (Years of Experience)

?
That's how I read it. Factor is only in there once. Agemod is what you enter (0 to 1).

Factor = (1 - AgeMod / 15) ^ (Years of Experience)

billgulch

03-10-2009, 05:16 PM

First off.. I fixed the factor typo mentioned above. You guys are right.. it should have read AgeMod. :)

As for the initial draft :

Generally this is just a quick way to distribute players across the league. You are assigned 80 players overall (and will cut down to 45 and 8 before the season starts).

One thing I try to be aware of : I don't want to allow people the ability to get too "cutesy" in the opening draft. I have to be under the assumption that, in newly created leagues, there will be some people that have experience using the draft and playing the game. If some people have experience with it while others don't, the ability to set how many of each players or even define the round positions, etc are taken opens up the potential for odd (and potentially unfair) distributions. I may simply be paranoid, but I know things like that can occur. That's the reason why I force "specific distributions", while trying to allow players to at least somewhat tailor their team to their individual liking.

It's something I'd happily considering changing at some point in the future if it's considered too restrictive, but I'm not sure if it's something I could get around to before the draft runs

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 05:22 PM

I certainly wouldn't expect you to change something before tomorrow. :) I'm just throwing thoughts against the wall. Perhaps I'm the only one that cares or thinks it may be an issue. Perhaps you set age as a high factor and the weight high for all experienced players and not less experienced, let all your drafting go toward the top 40 spots (all veterans) and consider the last 40 to be losers you expect to cut for the final roster. I haven't done this before, so it may turn out that it's not important.

OK. That's a lie. I've done this before but it was like a year ago and I didn't play long enough to really get into it. And my memory is terrible. :)

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 05:26 PM

dola:

scenario: I want a veteran as sort of a backup/mentor position (I doubt you ahve mentoring code in, but work with me :)) for my QBs. I then want 3 young QBs to fight it out for the #1 and #3 spots. There's currently no way to really do that. I get what you're saying, and you probably get what I'm saying, I just like to type more than is necessary. ;)

The biggest problem I see is if, let's say there are 128 QBs available. Of those 128, let's say 64 of them are young and 64 are old. If everyone wants 3 or 4 young QBs, there's no way to distribute them. I fully recognize how this is a tough task to code, and I'm not sure there's a better way to do it. Maybe my (and others?) ranting can work their way into actual solutions, though. :)

Karlifornia

03-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Hey, Bill..it's telling me the password you supplied is incorrect. I think you had my username down as "kailifornia" when it's actually "karlifornia". I'm guessing that's the hangup here.

rjolley

03-10-2009, 05:45 PM

billgulch

03-10-2009, 05:47 PM

oops :

karlifornia - a3d69c2ecdafe2030426b1b060439fac

Hey LS : You are pretty much spot on with your comments. :) On a side but somewhat related note : I do plan on ultimately allowing new leagues to import thier draft if they want to do the whole live draft thing without the site interefering. I'll also allow leagues to eventually import their initial set of players and possibly upcoming draft classes if they prefer. Just a matter of getting the time and making it a priorirt over other projects I suppose. :)

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-10-2009, 05:55 PM

But, in a draft, are you really expecting to get everything that you want at every position? In your QB example, if everyone has a QB as their top priority, they would all get 2 young QBs and 2 vets. I think that's expected.

It would be nice to be able to see a list of the initial draft pool. It could affect the drafting strategy.

No, but if my number is up and there's a young QB available with some upside and I already have a veteran QB, I'd rather get the young QB. That is currently not an option (particularly because the AgeMod only considers current, not potential, even if I have the agemod set high). If I'm picking the 99th QB in the draft in theory I could prefer a young guy over a washed up never-gonna-start guy.

Again, having said that, I don't have a better solution necessarily. :) Diarrhea of the keyboard.

Karlifornia

03-10-2009, 06:13 PM

In as the New Orleans Jazz! I even designed my own helmet. I mean, it's not much but it's an accomplishment when you consider my novice design skills.

rjolley

03-10-2009, 06:18 PM

No, but if my number is up and there's a young QB available with some upside and I already have a veteran QB, I'd rather get the young QB. That is currently not an option (particularly because the AgeMod only considers current, not potential, even if I have the agemod set high). If I'm picking the 99th QB in the draft in theory I could prefer a young guy over a washed up never-gonna-start guy.

Again, having said that, I don't have a better solution necessarily. :) Diarrhea of the keyboard.
Ok, didn't think the second example was related to the first. As a whole, your example makes sense.

21C

03-10-2009, 07:41 PM

Anybody got a site where I can get a logo for the Hurricanes? Went looking for the very short lived Myrtle Beach Hurricanes-was there for one season under that name I think in early 90's. But will settle for any other "hurricane themed" logos I can use.
Try here (http://helmet-depot.com/pt-wx01.html). It's where I got my Storm helmet. The only problem is that the helmets have transparent backgrounds which looks weird on some screens. I edited mine to have a white bg.

Raiders Army

03-10-2009, 09:26 PM

Try here (http://helmet-depot.com/pt-wx01.html). It's where I got my Storm helmet. The only problem is that the helmets have transparent backgrounds which looks weird on some screens. I edited mine to have a white bg.

Man I like that handicapped one.

The helmet I currently have is just a placeholder until I can find the time to get on my laptop (with Photoshop). Not that I'm a Photoshop master, but I can do better in that than Paint.

rjolley

03-10-2009, 09:35 PM

Thanks for that site, 21C. I was able to find a helmet that works for the team nickname I wanted originally.

Thomkal

03-10-2009, 09:41 PM

Passacaglia

03-11-2009, 11:22 AM

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 11:37 AM

So the draft is anytime now, correct?

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 11:45 AM

Yes. One suggestion for future new leagues is to have all these times / status updates displayed, at least on the main league page.

Passacaglia

03-11-2009, 11:45 AM

Yep -- Mike said it would be sometime after noon EST.

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 11:54 AM

Here;'s a suggestion ..

Give the rest of the people a chance and ban me from the league cause the dynasty is about to begin.

SirFozzie

03-11-2009, 12:00 PM

Here;'s a suggestion ..

Give the rest of the people a chance and ban me from the league cause the dynasty is about to begin.

you're going to have a dynasty? No, you're team's going to die... nasty!

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 12:38 PM

Yes. One suggestion for future new leagues is to have all these times / status updates displayed, at least on the main league page.

I don't think this is isolated to the draft -- I think all sims are at an unspecific time like this. I think that is something that is a high priority to change, personally. I want to know exactly when I can check on a "spin" and see the results (and on the flip side, when I have to have my adjustements in to affect that spin).

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 01:42 PM

Mike:

I don't know if it's because the draft is not complete, but I can see the draft history, which seems to have included the entire "Less Exp" list, but my "roster" page shows my first qb, then a vbscript error, and nothing else. I can, however, click on players from the draft page and get their stats/etc. I can post a screenshot if necessary, but I figure since you're in the league you should be able to see it. :)

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 01:54 PM

Looks like the draft is definitely still running. I'll check back once done.

SirFozzie

03-11-2009, 02:09 PM

When the draft is done, anyone want a scrimmage?

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:10 PM

Looks like things are done and working now. LETS GET IT ON!!

What's the deal with scrimmages? I'll see if there's info on the site, but is there a downside to having a scrimmage?

billgulch

03-11-2009, 02:11 PM

The draft should be done now. Took a lot longer than previously, since I'm running the box remotely now (and have to send the info through a cable modem...). If you guys seen anything weird, let me know, as I have done some mods since I last set up a league (Although I tried to be careful, I'm particularly leary of the DB layout changes I've made).

Your guys games sim sometime after 6:00 PM nightly. I now have 4 PC's that process the games (I only had one when you where playing before LS), so they generally get finished between 6:00 PM and 8:00 PM.

The only exception is if my cable modem dies out and I'm not around, in which case I have to kick it in the booty. But I have also recently purchased one of those 9" Dell Inspiron's, so i've taken to carrying a "man bag" now and check in regularly if I'm not around (unless the wife is in my business for ruining her night out.. :) ).

Thanks again!

--Mike

billgulch

03-11-2009, 02:12 PM

Oh, and I'll get your guys credits done when I get home from getting my daughter.

Scrimmages are a way you can learn more about your team. No one can get hurt during them (or if they do, it's not saved, so it won't affect your real league play).

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:12 PM

Is there a way to compare two (or more players) by their full attributes? If I have two players with a similar overall I would love a quick way to compare their individual attributes.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:14 PM

...it would also be nice to filter the roster by position, particularly so that I can see the inactive guys compared to the active guys (sorry if there is a way to do this that I missed).

Passacaglia

03-11-2009, 02:23 PM

Pretty happy with my team at first glance.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:28 PM

rjolley

03-11-2009, 02:32 PM

One thing I notice, I have two QBs that are exactly the same. Micheal Blevins and Miles Macleod.

For the FA search, I would like to see the ability to filter out players based on attributes, ratings, and stats. So, I'd like all 5th year and younger QBs, or all RBs with a potential Find Opening of 70+ and Speed of 85+.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:35 PM

When the draft is done, anyone want a scrimmage?
Any idea how we do that?

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:45 PM

DeepRoute.com / VOFL.com League Forums: Scrimmage Games Are Here! (http://deeproute.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1320&KW=scrimmage)
To card scrimmage games, you must convert credits into scrimmage tokens. You can do that, choose the "Buy Scrimmage Tokens" options under the "Scrimmages +" tab. Simply use the dropdown box to select how many tokens you want. Voila!

I don't know if the system has changed, but I don't have a "Scrimmages +" tab.

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 02:48 PM

My DT Randall Thomas is a beast. 26 y/o, 3 year player. 84/99. Also in the middle is 30 year old, 7 year vet James Holland, 84/85.

At LB ..

Ronald Peruzzi - 83/83
Robert Gravenstein - 79/86

At S ..

Jimmy Serratos - 91/98

Love the talent on this D.

SirFozzie

03-11-2009, 02:48 PM

We have two scrimmage tokens to start.

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 02:53 PM

I'm in to scrimmage.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 02:55 PM

We have two scrimmage tokens to start.
OK, how the heck do we use them? Excuse me if I'm being obtuse. :)

Thomkal

03-11-2009, 03:00 PM

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 03:05 PM

LordScarlet,

Not sure if this is the same problem or not, but oftentimes in the horse racing game, when Mike is updating something, running the weekly races, doing the Sunday update, things sometimes look "strange" until the update is wrong. Or I could be entirely wrong. :)

And I'm not happy drafting 29th. :(

Your draft position is different for each positions. It is based on your (and everyone else's) "Draft Factor" for each position. For instance, you got the 4th (Less Exp) FB.

SirFozzie

03-11-2009, 03:08 PM

I'm looking how. Bill, if you're reading this, you definitely need to explain that better :)

Thomkal

03-11-2009, 03:12 PM

Your draft position is different for each positions. It is based on your (and everyone else's) "Draft Factor" for each position. For instance, you got the 4th (Less Exp) FB.

yes yes I know, was just bitching about my QB's :)

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 03:15 PM

yes yes I know, was just bitching about my QB's :)
#1, beyotch! :)

4 years experience, 95/99.

Thomkal

03-11-2009, 03:37 PM

My starting QB may be a 20 year vet. That's not a good sign.

Autumn

03-11-2009, 03:41 PM

My starting QB is clutch. Highest of any of htem I've looked at so far. I like the variability in ratings, even among the top QBs there's seemingly a lot of differnet styles and talents. My guy has not a great arm, but is 99 at clutch. Other guys are golden arms.

There's a lot to look through here, it will take me a while.

I found it very confusing how to find a guy's statistics. When I click on him I see contract negotiation, and it seemed like maybe I had to accept a contract before I could even see his ratings. It was a while before I noticed the "click here to see attributes" link. I would revise that screen to make it much easier to tell where to go for what.

wade moore

03-11-2009, 03:43 PM

Ugh - didn't get the chance to update my draft strategery. This happened pretty quickly.

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 03:43 PM

So how do we scrimmage.

Racer

03-11-2009, 03:44 PM

When setting your lineup, does anyone know the difference between set A and B?

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 03:53 PM

Scrimmage: DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com (http://deeproute.com/default.asp?js=scrimsign)

I got that from the chat -- sounds like we're not the only ones having problems with it, either.

Mike: So you run all the sims at home and then upload them to your host? I don't mean to question your architecture, but is that the best way to run things? With the number of years you've been doing this I assume you've thought it through, but that seems a little odd. :)

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 03:54 PM

I really want to be able to activate / deactivate from the roster screen, where I have a good overview of all the players. Right now on the "Roster Moves" screen I have to click back and forth on the players to figure out who is who to do the moves.

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 03:55 PM

Mike: So you run all the sims at home and then upload them to your host? I don't mean to question your architecture, but is that the best way to run things? With the number of years you've been doing this I assume you've thought it through, but that seems a little odd. :)

That's the way the basketball game has always run. And why not? The web site just cares about the database, and your home computer is easier to run / debug / fix / whatever. Just like our FOF leagues :D

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 03:59 PM

When setting your lineup, does anyone know the difference between set A and B?

You can set it to use your B lineup for some plays if you use the advanced playbook. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 04:02 PM

That's the way the basketball game has always run. And why not? The web site just cares about the database, and your home computer is easier to run / debug / fix / whatever. Just like our FOF leagues :D

:p

Just to play devils advocate, DLB doesn't do it that way I don't think. (although, I hate that game ;) )

Raiders Army

03-11-2009, 04:07 PM

lordscarlet, just sent you an invite to a scrimmage. I used one token.

billgulch

03-11-2009, 04:15 PM

Hey Guys!

We'll go ahead and run tonight for sure. If you guys would like, I can "Pause" the league for a day or two and take in some of your suggestions, answer questions, etc. If not, we can just keep running. :)

One area I do realize I'm deficient in is docs. I would love a Wiki, though I haven't found an ASP based wiki worth using (as I'd like to host it and mod it as necessary). Any suggestions?

I also think everyone in the league should have his or her free credits. So you can spend them on scrimmage tokens or updating your playbooks.

Now, on to a few replies:

Unfinished draft : I probably need to make it so you can't see the screen until the draft is done. There are a few more "broken" screens as the draft was processing. I likely need to sweep through and try to find them all. Mya be tricky now that the draft is done. :)

Compare 2 players : no really quick way at the moment; it would require opening 2 browser windows and alt-tabbing between them (or tabs and clicking between them). Or you can go to "Roster Moves" or "Set Offense". You can do a little of it there.

Filter by position : I think I get your jist. If not, just explain it to me wit ha little more detail. Legions can attest to the fact that I'm slow catching onto things sometimes. ;) Try going to My Roster and clicking on the POS tab.

Preseason game : yes, it will be simmed this evening. That's probably a little soon after the draft, honestly. I'll note to put a day between the draft completion and the first preseason game going forward.

Filter FA's : nothing really on the site specifically to do that. You can, however, download the CSV file (got to CSV Files) of FA's and sort them outside the program. You'll have to have a playbook active I believe. We'll get it in there soon.

Scrimmages : Log out and back in. It kind of resets it every day. It looks at your cookies and makes sure you have an active league. Since you were inactive earlier, it hasn't reset yet. Let me see what I can do to make it so you don't have to log out and back in going forward.

Uploads from home : Actually, last time you played LS, I ran the DB server from home so no uploading was necessary (and allowed my remote server to contact through a DSL line). But the game did grow too big since then (causing a crapload of timeouts.. go figure.. I was uploading at 384K...;), so I was forced to run the DB server from a rented server on a larger backbone (it's sharing a server with my horse racing game at the moment).. I'm not pulling in any really money from the game, so renting the servers to run the games remotely would crush me. Good news is : it's written so that, if the thing ever grows, it's written so that I can run it all from the same location. Actually, it's written so it could run across literally hundreds of servers at varying locations if need be. I just need some cash to flow in... ;)

New Activate / Deativate idea : check out the FA screen. Would it help if I added the (Now / Potential) and experience to the box with the players somehow, so you could see them with your players? That may be too large, but I'll mess around with it if that's what you're thinking.

A / B Package - What LS said. You can tailor third down plays, etc in the advanced play book. I actually have a plan to add it so you can "switch" between them easier from the Gametime Strategies screen in situations (as well as the ability to Double Team a WR). Those are on my shortlist.

..now my fingers hurt. :)

--Mike

Thomkal

03-11-2009, 04:33 PM

Filter by position : I think I get your jist. If not, just explain it to me wit ha little more detail. Legions can attest to the fact that I'm slow catching onto things sometimes. ;) Try going to My Roster and clicking on the POS tab.

<-----whistles innocently. :) Really haven't sat down yet to figure out how anything works in the game, so I will just comment on the one thing I did notice and liked-the highlighting of your picks in the draft log so you can find them easily.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 04:35 PM

I was going to say that I don't have a "POS" tab, but I think more accurate terminology woudl be "click on the 'POS' header." In other words, sort by position. That's good enough for what I wanted to see.

On the uploads from home, if the issue is funding new servers -- where do you live? A friend of mine got a seriously fast upload/download business class cable connection for $100/mo. FIOS would obviously be even better. But, if the issue is cash, I certainly can see why you're doing it that way. :)

For the activate/deactivate -- I'm not sure of one solution, but there is definitely a better way to do this, I think. One is on the roster to have activate/deactivate/IR/Cut links. Obviously you can't see their attributes there, and probably aren't going to set the cut order there, so the roster move page is still necessary. But your solution would certainly be better than what is there now. I would perhaps put a popup (or something, I don't love the popups) like you have on the player page on the roster page, so that you can quickly view your players, their attributes, and activate/deactivate them.

Scrimmage: I logged in via a completey different browser that I had not visited the site with and I still couldn't see the link. In addition, I don't see Raider's Army's scrimmage challenge on the main page (as I've been told I should be able to), but I can see it at DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com (http://deeproute.com/?js=scrimmine).

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 04:39 PM

lordscarlet, just sent you an invite to a scrimmage. I used one token.

Game simmed. DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com (http://deeproute.com/?js=scrimmine)

Raiders Army

03-11-2009, 04:46 PM

I couldn't see the scrimmage either except in lordscarlet's link. Good game though...too bad we didn't get the onsides kick at the end!

eiskrap

03-11-2009, 04:58 PM

I got Michael Phelps as my QB1 so you're all screwed... we got 50 billion gold medals!!!

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 05:15 PM

I couldn't see the scrimmage either except in lordscarlet's link. Good game though...too bad we didn't get the onsides kick at the end!

Yeah. The first and second halves were completely differnt games, so I'm not sure what to think of my team at the moment. :)

A suggestion to Mike: In addition to "advance one" on the gameplay screen, have a "go back one". Sometimes I have it set on, say, 1 sec, and I miss what just happened.

billgulch

03-11-2009, 05:17 PM

dbd1963

03-11-2009, 05:20 PM

Mike,

What will happen with our players who are signed only for this year. Some of these are good players, and look to be UFAs next season, but I can't extend them this season. It says I already gave them a contract. Is there a workaround for this first-season problem?

billgulch

03-11-2009, 05:22 PM

Hey DB -

I bet that was one of those fields I've added since I last created a new league. Let me look into that. It should be a quick fix from my end, but I don't want anything to break. It'll likely get fixed tomorrow.

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 05:25 PM

Hey LS :

I live in Louisville. "Business class" cable is ~$140 a month, which WOULD work. But I have found cable to be unreliable.. I've had friends with businesses have theirs go out regularly (sometimes for several days).

BTW - I found the scrimmage problem. Try logging in and out agan if you don't mind. :)

--Mike

Yeah, that sucks. :) one of my sites is hosted out of some dudes basement and is slow as hell -- the rest I have on dreamhost because they're not big enough to warrant more.

I didn't even have to logout for the Scrimmages link to reappear.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 05:27 PM

Oh, also.. on wikis. I think mediawiki is far and away the best option. I've tried to find a good .net one and they all suck. Even the Ruby on Rails options suck. PHP far and away seems to have the best options for running a wiki, unfortunately.

Raiders Army

03-11-2009, 05:40 PM

Mike, I have scheduled a scrimmage against you. Accept it if you dare! Good luck!

Hope I don't get killed

dbd1963

03-11-2009, 05:55 PM

Preseason game one is done. Wow, I think my team is really gonna be a bottom scraper this year..

Looking forward to the draft!

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 06:12 PM

I really like the scrimmage concept. Great way to get revenue, help people willing to pay to research, and take advantage of people that just like to sim, sim, sim to learn the game.

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 06:48 PM

I posted an open scrimmage where I'll pay both tokens. Anyone feel free to grab it...

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 06:48 PM

I really like the scrimmage concept. Great way to get revenue, help people willing to pay to research, and take advantage of people that just like to sim, sim, sim to learn the game.

No wonder Ben is staying away, he and RKG could go broke in a week :D

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 06:49 PM

Never mind, that went fast. I need to see if there is a way to limit the open scrimmage to just this league.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 06:55 PM

Never mind, that went fast. I need to see if there is a way to limit the open scrimmage to just this league.
For now, I will juist challenge you. ;)

Everyone: Be warned. If you try to change a lineup position across all lineups, make sure you check the box BEFORE making the change

Mike: It is very hard (impossible?) to find a link to set JUST your preseason/scrimmage lineup. I figured out how to hack the link, but that might be something to look at for the future.

Thomkal

03-11-2009, 06:58 PM

Hey we beat Mike in the first preseason game, clearly we are going to win the Super Bowl now.

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 07:38 PM

New Activate / Deativate idea : check out the FA screen. Would it help if I added the (Now / Potential) and experience to the box with the players somehow, so you could see them with your players? That may be too large, but I'll mess around with it if that's what you're thinking.

Yes, that would help. Another option would be to change the "ST" column on the roster to a drop-down and add a "set status" button to the bottom to grab them all and apply it.

Autumn

03-11-2009, 07:50 PM

Ooh, I crushed San Fran. Without doing anything. Hopefully tweaking my roster won't hurt me.

As far as feedback I find it really overwhelming to tweak this roster. I know we normally woudln't have 80 guys, so that's a lot. But there are so many ratings, which I like sim-wise, but it makes it really ahrd to get a grasp of a player. I try to find two on the cusp and flip back and forth, back and forth, but it's hard for me to grok all the ratings at once, even just the relevant ones.

gstelmack

03-11-2009, 07:54 PM

Depth charts are too many screens to wade through and adjust. I'd love to see something more like the base screens (say, H F T 1 2 and 4-3-4 Standard) as-is, but add the nickel, dime, WR3, WR4, WR5, etc as additional options on the same screen and then have that apply to all the base ones from there. I can then go in and adjust individual screens as I want. It just takes too long to adjust the one screen, then walk through all the others to make sure the 3rd CB that I have as a backup in the 4-3-4 becomes my nickel back in the nickel and dime screens. There should be the one main screen, and then optionally have me go into the others to customize something if I don't really want the nickel DB to be the nickel DB in the quarters defense or something.

dbd1963

03-11-2009, 08:08 PM

Yes, the depth chart screens are what basically drove me away last time. Too difficult to use. I wish I were good at design so that I could suggest a better way, but I am not.

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 08:09 PM

DeToxRox

03-11-2009, 09:15 PM

We beat the CPU run STL Cobras 24-14 in the preseason opener.

wade moore

03-11-2009, 09:18 PM

lordscarlet

03-11-2009, 09:20 PM

I really wish I had more concrete feedback.

I go to setup my team and I'm just completely overwhelmed. It may nto help that I was at work for 12 hours and I'm exhausted, so I'll look again in the morning.

There definitely seems to be a... high point of entry. You can't just get into the game and have fun without putting some time into figuring out how it works. I think it's a huge problem that Mike needs to solve if he wants to reach a more casual user.

dbd1963

03-11-2009, 09:30 PM

I love the scrimmage option, because I'm sitting here doing scrimmage after scrimmage, tweaking my playbook, finding out what my team is good at. This would be the way Mike will get money from me..

Chief Rum

03-12-2009, 02:14 AM

Been busy, so hadn't gotten around to logging in and nabbing my team until tonight. I see I missed the draft, but I'll deal. I'll have to take a real close look at everything tomorrow night after work.

I am currently the New York Hamsters (if I have the option, city/nickname may change), and I am in the same division as wade moore and lordscarlet, brothers extraordinaire.

Raiders Army

03-12-2009, 07:02 AM

I'd agree on all of the above comments. I think it just takes a good half an hour sitting down and looking at everything. I don't feel comfortable, but I don't feel uncomfortable.

Depth charts are too many screens to wade through and adjust. I'd love to see something more like the base screens (say, H F T 1 2 and 4-3-4 Standard) as-is, but add the nickel, dime, WR3, WR4, WR5, etc as additional options on the same screen and then have that apply to all the base ones from there. I can then go in and adjust individual screens as I want. It just takes too long to adjust the one screen, then walk through all the others to make sure the 3rd CB that I have as a backup in the 4-3-4 becomes my nickel back in the nickel and dime screens. There should be the one main screen, and then optionally have me go into the others to customize something if I don't really want the nickel DB to be the nickel DB in the quarters defense or something.
Agreed.

For what it's worth, I've only done the Gametime Strategies. I opened up the Advanced Playbook Options, but I haven't seen where to really tweak your defense. I'll search the message forums to see how to do it. The Gametime Strategies are pretty self-explanatory as well as the Intermediate Playbook Options. I'm puzzled why the only options I have are None Selected for the Advanced Playbook Options.

Gameplay:
38 seconds was allowed to run off the clock between plays.
LOU - Q1 11:51 (3rd and 3-; Own 43) - The ball is snapped to QB Martin Maldonado.
LOU - Q1 11:51 (3rd and 3-; Own 43) - Pass by QB Martin Maldonado to WR1 Eric Hutching, 5 08 yard(s) downfield, COMPLETE for a gain of 5 08 Yard(s) before being tackled by C1 Donald Chirasello.
The play required 6 seconds to execute.
Defensive Call : <2>2-3d-1thru4-2yd-5yd-up,(Scn:17 - Default PB:; Pr0 - Pos 46)

Offensive Package Was : T 1 2 3 4 (A), Formation: Shotgun 4 Wideouts L , Play : 5 yd curl L
Defensive Package Was : 4-1-6 Dime Coverage : Man; Roamer Job - Normal; 5 yard Cushion
I'm not sure why in the 1st quarter I was in Dime Coverage giving a 5 yard cushion on 3rd and less than 3.

39 seconds was allowed to run off the clock between plays.
LOU - Q1 08:18 (2nd and 03+; Opp 3) - The ball is snapped to QB Martin Maldonado.
LOU - Q1 08:18 (2nd and 03+; Opp 3) - Handoff to HB Rex Andras, who runs outside the right tackle;he gains 3 26 Yard(s).
LOU - Q1 08:18 (2nd and 03+; Opp 3) - Touchdown, Rex Andras!
The play required 4 seconds to execute.
Defensive Call : <2>2-2d-1thru4-6in/5yd-up,(Scn:13 - Default PB:; Pr0 - Pos 42)

Offensive Package Was : H 1 2 3 4 (A), Formation: 4 Wideouts , Play : H thru R3 hole
Defensive Package Was : 4-1-6 Dime Coverage : Man; Roamer Job - Deep; 5 yard Cushion
1. Same thing here. I'm backed up and you're about to score, but I'm in Dime Coverage on 2nd and 3? Are both situations because your offense has four receivers? It seems as if the defense knows on every single play to bring out extra defensive backs if there are more receivers.

2. Stupid question here: is my Corner 2 on your WR 2 or are they set up left and right? If they are set up as 2 on 2 and 1 on 1, then I can assume that when your WR2 James Rodriguez scored an 80 yard TD, it was my C2's fault. From what I can tell, I think your Nickelback is always matched up on their WR3 (who is always in the slot?).

dbd1963

03-12-2009, 07:48 AM

I have answered my own question. Carry on. Go on with your meals!

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 08:30 AM

I have answered my own question. Carry on. Go on with your meals!

Didn't check the box? :)

gstelmack

03-12-2009, 08:36 AM

Yes, the depth chart screens are what basically drove me away last time. Too difficult to use.

FWIW, now that I'm playing it again and remembering my beta experience, I believe this was my reason as well. Navigation I think I could live with, but I took one look at what it would take to actually set up my team in the way I wanted (even just the basics) and said "I don't have time for this." So yes, this will be high priority for me to make suggestions on how to fix so it is less painful and takes a lot less time for at least the basic / initial setup of the team.

billgulch

03-12-2009, 08:37 AM

Hey Guys!

I want to thank you all again for taking the time out to help me. The feedback you guys are providing is great.. exactly the sort of thing I am looking for. Now, let me see if I can't answer some questions and respond to comments :

Dbd1963 - can you tell me a player that the "extension problem" is occurring to? I can't seem to get that on any of my players. (say your post just a second ago.. is this the thing you solved, or is there another problem)

Position change across all packages - LS is right. Make sure you check this if you want to make a change across all packages. You could, theoretically, have a different QB manning different packages. That's likely what has happened when you see 2 different QB's playing.

NOTE ON ABOVE : One suggestion I have heard in the past and reading here seems to confirm it. The ability to change by individual package is a good one, but often times overkill. I need to add a simpler "depth chart" way of modifying the lineups. This appears to be one of the major things driving people away. It'll take a little thought, but it's the highest thing on my priority list.

"Look at only players of a certain status" : Noted, and I'll see if I can't add that ASAP.

RA : what's your user name? I honestly can't remember.. sorry. :P I'll look into the "None Selected" advance option. I will forward your playbook concerns to Larry; I let him take care of a lot of that. I can tell you that you're in a dime because the other team is going 4 wide on you (that much I know is set in the default PB). As for being 5 yards off on 3rd and 3.. that may need a little tweaking. :p The good news is that the way I have things set up makes that an easy fix. Again, Larry is the man when it comes to that sort of stuff. I'll forward it on his way.

I obviously don't want to drive you guys away over UI flaws. If it's worth it, I can pause the game your league for a day or two (you can still run scrimmages) until I come up with something to solve the "overwhelming" aspect of changing lineups.

I hope you can see the work I've put into this, and I want the success of the game to correlate with that amount of work. I really believe that, if I can make the transition from non-player to player a smooth one, the guts of the game will be allowed to shine better. The feedback you guys are offering is awesome, and I will do what I can to get your concerns addressed ASAP. Thank you so again.

--Mike

gstelmack

03-12-2009, 08:40 AM

I obviously don't want to drive you guys away over UI flaws. If it's worth it, I can pause the game your league for a day or two (you can still run scrimmages) until I come up with something to solve the "overwhelming" aspect of changing lineups.

From my perspective, the first season is basically a throw-away as I learn how to play, so I'm fine with letting it move forward while we bombard you with feedback and you tweak things. I'm just making sure to get my roster set so I keep the guys I want when I go to the next season.

And I suspect in this crowd you've got enough folks who are fine with screwing up the first season to get a high draft pick for next year that they won't care, either ;)

wade moore

03-12-2009, 08:52 AM

From my perspective, the first season is basically a throw-away as I learn how to play, so I'm fine with letting it move forward while we bombard you with feedback and you tweak things. I'm just making sure to get my roster set so I keep the guys I want when I go to the next season.

And I suspect in this crowd you've got enough folks who are fine with screwing up the first season to get a high draft pick for next year that they won't care, either ;)
+1

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Position change across all packages - LS is right. Make sure you check this if you want to make a change across all packages. You could, theoretically, have a different QB manning different packages. That's likely what has happened when you see 2 different QB's playing.

I think one of the biggest problems is that you are using "one-way" (I just made that term up) javascript to do the "change all." If you make the change, then check the box, those changes don't apply across all lineups -- you have to do it in the reverse order. Now, the way you're doing things, that is probably hard to change. You could possibly keep a queue of actions, but, as I'm sure was you're thinking, someone may have madea few changes that they don't want to apply across all formations. I would, at a minimum, suggest an in-page or javascript alert when someone checks the box that reiterates the fact that previous changes will not be carried through all of the formations.

NOTE ON ABOVE : One suggestion I have heard in the past and reading here seems to confirm it. The ability to change by individual package is a good one, but often times overkill. I need to add a simpler "depth chart" way of modifying the lineups. This appears to be one of the major things driving people away. It'll take a little thought, but it's the highest thing on my priority list.

yes, definitely. The guys with FOF experience can speak better to this probably, but I would expect to be able to simply set a depth chart and have it automagically apply to the formations. In fact, I think there's another necessary step of detail.

Set a depth chart (who is WR1, WR2, WR3, MLB, SILB, etc)
Similar to what you have, but assign the generic "positions". e.g. In Formation 1, I want WR1 in the post, WR2 in the slot, etc.
The detailed player-by-player adjustments you have now.Step 2 makes it a little easier to make adjustments across the board while still having some plays that are not "Standard". You can have your WR3 be the primary receiver, yet swap out who is WR3 very easily.

RA : what's your user name? I honestly can't remember.. sorry. :P I'll look into the "None Selected" advance option. I will forward your playbook concerns to Larry; I let him take care of a lot of that. I can tell you that you're in a dime because the other team is going 4 wide on you (that much I know is set in the default PB). As for being 5 yards off on 3rd and 3.. that may need a little tweaking. :p The good news is that the way I have things set up makes that an easy fix. Again, Larry is the man when it comes to that sort of stuff. I'll forward it on his way.

I obviously don't want to drive you guys away over UI flaws. If it's worth it, I can pause the game your league for a day or two (you can still run scrimmages) until I come up with something to solve the "overwhelming" aspect of changing lineups.

I hope you can see the work I've put into this, and I want the success of the game to correlate with that amount of work. I really believe that, if I can make the transition from non-player to player a smooth one, the guts of the game will be allowed to shine better. The feedback you guys are offering is awesome, and I will do what I can to get your concerns addressed ASAP. Thank you so again.

--Mike

We certainly appreciate the amount of work you have put into this -- particularly with the willingness to talk to us an accept feedback. That will go a long way toward people (us at least) putting up with some problems.

From my perspective, the first season is basically a throw-away as I learn how to play, so I'm fine with letting it move forward while we bombard you with feedback and you tweak things. I'm just making sure to get my roster set so I keep the guys I want when I go to the next season.

And I suspect in this crowd you've got enough folks who are fine with screwing up the first season to get a high draft pick for next year that they won't care, either ;)

+1

As I said, I think this is your biggest hurdle to get over. The playbook options that you have before getting to advanced playbooks are good for getting started real quick, but the depth chart is, as you said, overwhelming.

dbd1963

03-12-2009, 09:18 AM

Mike -- No that last message was a dumb thing I did, which LS figured out pretty quick .

I was able to renegotiate my RB who was on a 1 year contract just now. I probably did something stupid with that one too.

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 09:30 AM

I noticed a possible, and easy to fix, bug. I haven't tested it, but I downloaded the CSV of my entire team. It is a CSV, however, it is saved as a .xls. When I open it, Excel puts every row in a single column. However, if I rename the file with a .csv extension, excel opens it as you would expect. It may have to do with my particular version or something, but it's probably something to check out.

Mike -- No that last message was a dumb thing I did, which LS figured out pretty quick .

I was able to renegotiate my RB who was on a 1 year contract just now. I probably did something stupid with that one too.

I had read your original question on my iphone and I was going to reply when I got to work. ;)

Thomkal

03-12-2009, 10:24 AM

Was just setting up my offense, and I noticed that when I was setting up an individual package rather than across all of them, then saving after making the changes I wanted to the package, the sim defeulted back to the first package on the list rather than the one I was just working on. Made it confusing because there's a lot of packages and many of them similar in name. I'd much rather it stay on the one I'm working on-that way I can just work my way down the list of packages without worrying whether I missed one or not.

dbd1963

03-12-2009, 12:17 PM

I have a scrimmage game up to anyone interested. I paid one token so you need one token to play.

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 12:22 PM

Some things off the top of my head:

Is there a way to "copy" your preseason/scrimmage settings to the regular season? I am toying with preseason/scrimmage, but if I get to something I like it will be a pain to manually move it to the regular season settings.

I wonder if it would be a nice feature (perhaps a pay feature) to have saved lineups and playbook settings. Maybe you have a "good pass defense" package that you use against certain opponents, or a "weak quarterback" package, etc. That you can swap out based on your opponent.

When you "Card" a scrimmage, it returns to the card scrimmage page. Would it be better if it went to "my scrimmages"?

I would really, really like to see an easier way to compare players. Off the top of my head I would just say have a checkbox on the roster list and a "compare" button. Allow as many players as you want, and allow it to go side scrolling. A quick, lame mockup would be something like

http://idledreams.net/images/vofl/lame_compare_mockup.png

But please dont' make it exactly like that P.O.S. if you did something like that. :) This could perhaps tie into some roster movements as well, allowing you to activate, deactivate, or even set your depth chart position. Basically the idea that you can see people's stats up against each other.

rjolley

03-12-2009, 12:39 PM

I like that idea. I usually just try to remember the attributes I'm focusing on, but being able to compare players side-by-side like this would be great on the roster and FA screens.

Autumn

03-12-2009, 12:45 PM

Autumn

03-12-2009, 01:48 PM

Well my comment just was eaten. I'll say shortly that I really, really agree about making a one-page depth chart start where you can set the default for all positions, including nickel and dime, etc. Then the ability to drill down and modify individual packages. That would make a world of difference for a casual gamer like me.

I also really, really like the idea of being able to compare players side by side as above. Right now I find myself making off hte cuff cuts just to simplify things as there's too much overload with all those ratings to compare.

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Anyone up for a scrimmage?

Also, any thoughts on who might be up for filling the last 9 spots?

gstelmack

03-12-2009, 03:52 PM

Having a problem with the intermediate playbook. I checked all 3 boxes (save to practice/scrimmage, copy to all times, copy to all points), edited the matrix to my desired settings, clicked the Save button, then switched to a different matrix (the last 2 minutes of the fourth quarter, leaving it at Up 17+) and got a completely different set of numbers. My selections weren't copied like I thought they would be.

Autumn

03-12-2009, 03:56 PM

I'll scrimmage you ls. Let me go see if I can pull it off.

Autumn

03-12-2009, 04:00 PM

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 04:10 PM

All right, I've got it put in.

For some feedback on teh scrimmage section, I would lose the term "card". I eventually figured it out, but the term "Card Scrimmage" didn't really mean anything to me at first blush and I blundered around a while trying to figure out how to set one up.

It should be spinning up now.

Agreed on the "card" terminology. I thought I just wasn't in on the terminology enough and didn't want to look stupid. ;) "Setup Scrimmage" or something would be fine, I think.

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 04:18 PM

Raiders Army

03-12-2009, 04:39 PM

RA : what's your user name?
richardweed

I see what the problem is. I didn't make any playbooks for the regular season and I was trying to set my playbooks for the scrimmages.

There aren't any defensive playbook options?

Thomkal

03-12-2009, 08:36 PM

well this was an interesting second preseason game for me. I went with whomever the computer had on my active list, didn't change the depth charts, etc. Won that game pretty easily (sorry Mike). This game I activated most of those the computer had inactive and switched them around with the ones that were active. Wasn't expecting a good result, because generally the guys playing this game were worse than the ones playing the first. But I won again, though nearly lost it to a 4th quarter comeback. Now I don't know who to keep/set inactive.

Autumn

03-12-2009, 09:33 PM

in case you haven't looked at the results:

WTF happened to my QB? I need to look at the log in detail, but 0 TD 3 INT is a very odd performance for him. Still threw for a lot of yards, though. Looks like you've got a pretty good squad, though. That KR for a TD is a guy that I don't normally have back there.

I watched the game. Hell of a 62 yarder at the end to win it. I had you backed up to the 4 yard line.

Your QB seemed to throw fine, except for those picks. It was odd. At first it seemed like I was dominating other than that kick return. But really if a few of those picks didn't go that way you might have crushed us.

I think some of the changes I made for this game didn't work out well at all. I'll have to see if I can go back to the drawing board.

lordscarlet

03-12-2009, 10:20 PM

I've been changing things up like crazy and running scrimmages to test them. Against a baseline team I've been improving, but with the starters in for the preseason game I was getting crushed (in stats but not score), so I'm losing a little confidence in my adjustments. :)

wade moore

03-13-2009, 04:26 AM

I don't understand why my team sucks.

dbd1963

03-13-2009, 07:10 AM

The baseline team is all 50s. Even they beat me most of the time!

wade, your team will improve after the first year is up. First, your draft picks will help. If your team really does suck, you're probably going to get a great first rounder and then some good guys later on too. Also, as people sign their rookies, they will release some serviceable FAs. Right now, if you didn't have a good first draft, there's nothing you can do but gut it out because there are no FAs to speak of that can help.

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 07:37 AM

I don't understand why my team sucks.

First, my team doesn't suck and I sstill get blown out at times. Second, you probably need to do some investigation of individual attributes rather than overall scores, which side of the line individuals are on (based on their run/pass abilities), where LBs are, etc.

wade moore

03-13-2009, 08:17 AM

First, my team doesn't suck and I sstill get blown out at times. Second, you probably need to do some investigation of individual attributes rather than overall scores, which side of the line individuals are on (based on their run/pass abilities), where LBs are, etc.

Meh.

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 08:52 AM

Meh.

:(

Based on my scrimmaging it appears that preseason is a poor indicator to performance. In theory I'm some teams from other leagues that are doing well in those leagues and holding my own, but getting blown away in scrimmages here. Who knows. Maybe it's all about matchups.

billgulch

03-13-2009, 09:28 AM

Ok.. I’m back for my daily dose.. ;) (and really pardon my typing.. I’m on my little Inspiron…)

For starters, I’ve been trying to get my hands around the “depth chart” idea. It’s actually easier to write than what I have in there, I just want to make sure it “feels right.” I’m trying to figure out if drop down boxed work the best and, if not… what should I use. Programming has always been pretty natural for me.. Not so much for design…

CSV Thing - so everything is simply crammed onto one row? (all the players and info in one row and column)? Are you on Windows or Mac? I’ve had some trouble getting mac to accept the files properly.. Something about the line feed / carriage return thing. If you open it directly without saving it, does it open excel automatically and still not work, or does it do ok?

“Default back to package I was working on” : Fixed.

“Copy pre-season to regular season strategies” : I allowed in in the other direction in some places. That was honestly a bit foolish on my behalf to leave out. It‘ll go on my short list.

“Side by Side comparison” Another good idea. Glad you mentioned it before I started working on the actual depth chart thing. That’ll save me a bit of coding. J

“Scrimmage game returns to scrimmage3 carding screen” : The primary reason I go back to the carding screen is that sometimes players want to card scrimmages in bunches (which would make returning to the My Scrimmages screen annoying, IMO). I do have a “click here to see your scrimmages” button.

“Intermediate playbook problem (Greg)” : Hmm.. That one I’ll have to look into. I tested it out, and it worked just fine across all times and scores and copied into the preseason playbook as well (though I only tested it for one number). One thing to note : only the CHANGED items are changed across the packages. So if you left one the same, it wouldn’t change across all scenarios. Could that explain it? Maybe I need to make a “copy all numbers across all scenarios” button as well.

“Card Scrimmage” terminology : changed to “create” on the main screen.

“Defensive Playbook Options” - there aren’t any for the intermediate playbook yet (though they exist for the advanced). I have a lot of the screen for this one figured out and coded actually.. It just needs to be worked into the game and released.

Preseason is definitely a “squishy science.” The primary goal is to figure out which players are better than others, so you get a lot of flopping around in the second half. Scrimmage games are definitely a better indicator of success. That being said, the team you are playing in a scrimmage may or may not be playing starters, or may have had several seasons to “get good” (or may be in a less competitive non-capped league).

So off to coding! Thanks guys!

--Mike

gstelmack

03-13-2009, 09:31 AM

“Intermediate playbook problem (Greg)” : Hmm.. That one I’ll have to look into. I tested it out, and it worked just fine across all times and scores and copied into the preseason playbook as well (though I only tested it for one number). One thing to note : only the CHANGED items are changed across the packages. So if you left one the same, it wouldn’t change across all scenarios. Could that explain it? Maybe I need to make a “copy all numbers across all scenarios” button as well.

That may explain it, I'll pay closer attention to them. But yes, what I really want is to set up my base run/pass splits, then adjust specific scenarios, so I want everything blasted to the places I tell it to go.

Thomkal

03-13-2009, 09:32 AM

This Mike guy is pretty good at listening to his customers and making changes where need be isn't he? ;)

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 11:39 AM

On the CSV: It was on a Windows machine. I believe Excel 2003 (I'm not at work today). The players were on individual rows, but the attributes were not in separate columns. So each player was on it's own row but a single column.

billgulch

03-13-2009, 11:47 AM

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 12:02 PM

That;s actually pretty typical; that's what happens when I check my T-Mobile bill. Try this after opening it :

* Highlight column A (by clicking at the top of it; the entire column should turn black)
* Choose Data on the toolbar
* Choose Text to Columns
* Choose Delimited and hit Next >
* Check the box by the word Comma and hit Next >
* Hit the Finish button

Did that fix things?

Thanks!

--Mike

I'll have to check when I'm back at work, but I think you can eliminate the need to do that simply by changing the file extension from xls to csv. :)

Edit: It shoudl be saved as what it actually is, regardless. If it's not actually an excel spreadsheet and instead is a comma delimited file, it really should be .csv anyway

billgulch

03-13-2009, 12:12 PM

I originally had it open as a CSV file and received several complaints that it wouldn't "pop open automatically" in Excel. If a person does not have Excel as their default CSV renderer, this would occur. The only way I could figure to force it to open in Excel is tell the browser it's and Excel file (even if it's really a CSV file).

So, since I've now received differing opinions about which method is really better, it may make sense to give the opener the option of Excel or CSV.

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 12:27 PM

Or you could make an actual excel format file, but either way.. I'm a jerk, but I think people need to learn how to setup their machine to open a CSV in Excel if that's what they want it to do. ;)

billgulch

03-13-2009, 01:49 PM

I'll look into making a pure XLS format. Either way, it sounds like I'm going to eventually have to make 2 options to appeal to everyone.

As for the "comparing players" thing :

I have an idea for how I may be able to implement that somewhat easily. The actual size of the information presents a bit of a problem, but I'm considering getting rid of the "bar" section when using the "multiple compare" feature. I'll poke around and hopefully have something to show you guys within the next couple of days.

--Mike

gstelmack

03-13-2009, 01:57 PM

That may explain it, I'll pay closer attention to them. But yes, what I really want is to set up my base run/pass splits, then adjust specific scenarios, so I want everything blasted to the places I tell it to go.

Okay, I went into the basic 1Q / Up 17+ screen and re-selected all of my settings in each box with all the checkboxes checked. Pressed the button to save, then switch to the last 2 minutes of the fourth quarter section. The following drop-downs stayed at "100", while all the rest seemed to take my changes:

2nd and 6-7
3rd and 6-7
3rd and 7-8
3rd and 8-9
3rd and 9-10

All other boxes look correct, although others could be broken if they just happened to have the same changes I made. However, this does look like it's just some boxes, rather than the entire feature being broken.

gstelmack

03-13-2009, 03:20 PM

I just did the CSV download of my team. Two suggestions:

1) Move the skills to last. Bring over the birthday, experience, height, weight columns to the other ones on the left.

2) Where is the contract data? I can't use this to find out who my about-to-be-free-agents are.

billgulch

03-13-2009, 03:41 PM

Hey Greg!

Just a quick question (and this still needs fixing, but it's worth asking) : could those situations be ones you clicked on but actually didn't change from what they were originally set at? I can trigger the change with an "onclick" as well, but I think that may be it.. your answer could help me verify that.

Also, as of now, you can't use the CSV files to look at anything to do with contracts (or downlaod stats either, though both are on the "huge master list" of things to add). I agree it's something that needs adding, though it'll take some coding.

The attributes are listed in the order they appear in the DB. I think I can fix that pretty easily. I'll give it a look. If it's a "one minute or so" thing (I think it is), I'll fix it ASAP.

Thanks!

--Mike

gstelmack

03-13-2009, 03:57 PM

Just a quick question (and this still needs fixing, but it's worth asking) : could those situations be ones you clicked on but actually didn't change from what they were originally set at? I can trigger the change with an "onclick" as well, but I think that may be it.. your answer could help me verify that.

It is possible. I'll run another test where I change them all and see what changes over there sometime this weekend.

billgulch

03-13-2009, 04:03 PM

I fixed the CSV order for you, and now have the matrix set to trigger "onclick" instead of "onchange". The rosters matrix is similarly on click only I believe, so it's probably worth changing as well.

Let me know when you get a chance, and thanks again!

--Mike

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 05:01 PM

Regarding comparison: I don't know if you need the bars for comparison, but they could be nice. I don't know that scrolling is a huge problem for that, but you could certainly make it easier to see more players without the bars.

Racer

03-13-2009, 06:08 PM

Looks like my team sucks. 0-3 and I don't think I've even had a close game.

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 10:01 PM

Looks like my team sucks. 0-3 and I don't think I've even had a close game.

I sitll think it's too early to tell -- in particular, make sure you look at the score before the half, when your starters were still in.

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 10:15 PM

I am terrible about writing down my ideas, because I know there are some I have forgotten. First, I think this is something we discussed "before", but I really see the "watch game" needing a big overhaul. It takes up a lot of screen real estate without really showing you much. On my laptop (a 13" macbook) I can pretty much only see the "field", the play description, and the QB stats -- with that I can barely fit the clock into the field of view.

I think part of the solution is to put more of the width in view. I also think that the visible stats should be based on posession. By default, you see the offensive team and defensive stats in your "view" and can flip through them (like mlb.com's gameday stuff -- unfortuantely I'm much more familiar with the baseball gameday stuff but I normally watch NFL on TV and not online). I'm also one that loves some negative space and padding around text, but for this I think you can really pull things in more. The "field" and helmets take up a lot of space without much info. If the field did more like the espn.com-esque visualization of a drive, it might be a little more valuable, but seeing as it just shows field position it could probably be shrunken a bit -- perhaps even consider not showing a properly proportioned field, but perhaps just a set of sideline markings or something.

Also, on the "watch" screen, and I believe the box score has basically the same info, I think there should be more info. Averages, QB Rating, sacks allowed, etc. And on the box score (or somewhere) perhaps some drive statistics. Time of posession, perhaps a drive chart, that sort of thing. Right now y ou have to spend a lot of time dissecting the log to get a lot of information -- I wonder if there's someway to summarize formations, yardage gained in those formations, runnign to the left/right, production based on depth of pass (short, med, long), etc. You obviously try to give as much information to people as possible (downloading the roster CSV is excellent), but that can always be improved. I think finding away to give some more detailed summaries of the individual games is one way to improve the information available for reviewing a game.

Again, particularly for grabbing more "casual" players, there is a lot of information available, but it could be made more accessible. Particularly as we are learning the game, that is probably going to be a recurring theme. As we learn it, we'll probably get into more of the meat of the settings.

Oh, also, attribute progression. Do you store that in anyway, or is it only the current attributes? I know that one of the popular features of a couple of FOF league sites is showing the progression of those attributes over time.

That's all for now, but I may be back before I actually fall asleep. ;)

lordscarlet

03-13-2009, 10:49 PM

You know, I was thinking about the comparison. I actually wouldn't mind a page that is all my players, with all of their attributes (perhaps a toggle for current/potential) and the ability to do a multi-sort. For instance, if I'm looking for a punt returner and I want to sort by first step, speed and escapability or something like that. Perhaps also give an option to filter by position. As I'm thinking about it, I wonder if a traditional table isn't a better way to go than the side-by-side (especially if you're removing the bars). Although, in theory I guess you can sort side-by-side as well.

I haven't gotten to evaluating stats, since, you know, we don't ahve any game stats yet, but something like Player Statistics - FOWL - Text Sports Network (http://textsports.net/fowl/stats) might be nice (Which I pretty much hobbled together based on nfl.com I believe -- I think the professional sports sites are a good place to get good ideas for usability)

billgulch

03-14-2009, 09:26 AM

gstelmack

03-14-2009, 12:34 PM

1 & 2 are my biggies, and the ones keeping this from being "fun". But I'll stick with it until some of these biggies are fixed up and see how it's playing then. I just don't have time to tweak my team the way I want with some of these issues in the way.

Another item that would help I think is a more directed copy-paste functionality on the intermediate playbook settings. In addition to the "copy everywhere", I'd love to be able to copy the current screen to another specific situation. For example, if I set my "Up 17+ last 2 minutes of fourth quarter" to all 100s, I might want to copy that to the "2-5 minutes left" setting as well rather than having to re-enter 100s in every box of that one. This would be another big time saver.

Instead for now I've got my basics in and am tweaking some of the particular cases every now and then.

Autumn

03-14-2009, 01:22 PM

Those seem the biggies to me. The game is fun, I really like the "Watch Game" screen, it's fun to use. But I do find the number of player attributes combined with the difficulties of the roster and depth chart screens daunting. If I could quickly throw together a team and then over time get into the details that would make it a lot more approachable.

And I for one am not expecting you to overhaul the game overnight. I expect we'll keep playing and over time be able to give more nuanced feedback.

rjolley

03-14-2009, 04:32 PM

I enjoy the game very much. Having a blast with my teams.

As for the order of the items listed, 1 and 3 are the most important to me.

For #4, will that sorting be available for the FA screen as well?

Raiders Army

03-14-2009, 07:56 PM

It is definitely a fun game. I'll post some more thoughts later on. The game is a little cumbersome, but it's definitely better than some of the other ones I've played. At least I haven't seen 225-0 scores. :)

lordscarlet

03-16-2009, 08:32 AM

Hey Guys!

There's a lot of really good suggestions so far. To incorporate them all will take quite a bit of time, especially since I got called back into my contract job yesterday afternoon (will be starting Monday... too bad money has to dictate what I do.. :(). Anyway...

With my time limited, could I get you guys to reply on the "show stoppers"? My order thusfar is :

* A "depth chart" thing to allow changes to more easily allow changes to the lineups.

* The ability to modify defense using the "intermediate playbook options"

* The ability to compare players on the FA screens, roster screens, etc.

* The ability to sort by player attibutes

Am I missing any "biggies?"

Also, and this is most important : are you guys having fun?

Thanks again!

--Mike

Congrats on the contract work!

I think that's it for things that really hinder someone's ability to start playing the game.

I am having fun so far, but I think it should get better once the regular season starts. It's very hard to evaluate players right now because they have no stats and I've never played before. Once I can really see how the numbers accumulate over time it will be easier to judge (perhaps there should be a way to select scrimmages and aggregate stats over those games?)

nfg22

03-16-2009, 01:49 PM

Anyway I could join? I already have two teams but would be interested in a third. This would probably be my secondary team because the second team I have right now I dont like too much. Thanks!

Thomkal

03-17-2009, 05:52 AM

So how many do we need to cut again?

Raiders Army

03-17-2009, 06:23 AM

I think you need to get your roster to 53.

rjolley

03-17-2009, 07:52 AM

53 is correct, 45 active, 8 inactive.

lordscarlet

03-17-2009, 09:09 AM

For more info: DeepRoute.com - Virtual Online Football League / Simulated Football Game - Provided by SimulatedSports.com (http://deeproute.com/default.asp?filelook=true&director=rosterlimitscap)

Thomkal

03-17-2009, 09:11 AM

thanks guys

lordscarlet

03-17-2009, 09:43 AM

Anyway I could join? I already have two teams but would be interested in a third. This would probably be my secondary team because the second team I have right now I dont like too much. Thanks!

You can definitely still jion. Just post your username for Deeproute and Mike will give you a password to join.

lordscarlet

03-17-2009, 10:46 AM

Some more quick suggestions:

A "CPU Pick All" for setting your lineup. I just wnet through and did all my cuts, and I know all my starters, but I don't necessarily know my backups. Perhaps even a "CPU Pick All" and a "CPU Pick Backups". Otherwise I have to go in and manually set all of my backups to "CPU" if I want a recommendation to work from. And, still, "copy from scrimmage" would be nice. :)

In addition, there are a lot of stats that are missing. I think I mentioned some above (such as drive charts). One of the glaring ones is the lack of team stats for a game. In addition, the box score is missing a lot of the averaging numbers such as YPC and QB Rating. I think Sacks Allowed and some others are missing as well. It seems to me that it should have all the same stats as the list of player stats for your team that cumulates over the season. Some stats that would be nice to go with that: Average starting position (box score), run stats for right/left. I think above I also mentioned short/med/long passing numbers.