April 15th Tea Party

[tarcone]

Across the nation, cities and towns are planning tea parties.
Here is the mission statement from the web site:

The Tea Party effort is just a small piece of a much larger movement aimed at restoring the basic free-market principles our country was built on. The Constitution, for the most part, is being ignored by our current government and we intend on working together to correct the problem.

The Tea Party effort is a grassroots, collaborative volunteer organization made up of every day American citizens from across the country. We take pride in the fact that we've built a 50 state network of leaders and activists using nothing more than the internet, a few websites and a burning desire to restore freedom.

And here is the site

hxxp://taxdayteaparty.com/

[RainMaker]

So we just take our socialized roads to this event in a socialized park protected by our socialized police department.

[sterlingice]

And, as we've shown numerous times especially in the last 10 years- if there is no monetary incentive to act in the public good or disincentive against bad behaviors, the free market will always act for public welfare.

SI

[CamEdwards]

And, as we've shown numerous times especially in the last 10 years- if there is no monetary incentive to act in the public good or disincentive against bad behaviors, the free market will always act for public welfare.

SI

A free market doesn't mean a free-for-all. It's always had rules and will always have rules. That's not what this is about.

This is simply a rejection of the idea that the government should assume even more responsibility, not just for the rules governing the market, but for governing the economy itself. Some supporters of the Tea Party would probably love to roll things back to 1789, but I think others would simply be satisfied with a serious counter-proposal of free market reforms.

[sterlingice]

I'm not all that comfortable with the government taking control of things as they are- I think it's well intentioned (others may disagree)- but it sets a really, really dangerous precedent. Especially since it seems so random- Bear Stearns save, Lehman flop, AIG save, Merill save, automakers flop.

I would have been fine letting us take control of the banks (ala Sweden) as long as there is a concrete sunset clause on the government spinning the bank back out. Or, even better, splitting the parts of Citi, BOA, and anyone else who is in trouble into composite parts and then spinning them off to restore Glass-Steagall. But we're getting way off topic- I outlined this in a post a couple of weeks ago in the Recession thread- basically the government as a referee but they have to be a strong referee. They should not be a player.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cute idea but one that I don't believe ultimately accomplishes anything more than giving the relative handful who will participate a brief illusion that they actually have any influence on anything.

To them I say "good luck with that" but I'll be tilting at some other windmill that day (or hanging from one).

[ColtCrazy]

Cute idea but one that I don't believe ultimately accomplishes anything more than giving the relative handful who will participate a brief illusion that they actually have any influence on anything.

To them I say "good luck with that" but I'll be tilting at some other windmill that day (or hanging from one).

I agree. It's a feel good thing, but doesn't really do more than that. Unless they threaten to do something drastic, it'll get some media play that day and be forgotten by the 16th.

[Greyroofoo]

Let's hope it's as successful as Earth Hour!

[KWhit]

Yeah! Great idea! Let's let the economy burn itself to the ground!

[Abe Sargent]

I honestly believe that income, property and estate taxes are unethical. I'd prefer government to have consumption taxes only.

[stevew]

I hope Willie Nelson is performing at one of these events. Assuming he's still alive.

[RainMaker]

I honestly believe that income, property and estate taxes are unethical. I'd prefer government to have consumption taxes only.

A regressive tax system would surely pass in this country without a problem.

[Abe Sargent]

Nah, you could increase the taxes on luxury and non-essentials, plus you;'d have B&O taxes, tarriffs, etc.

[tarcone]

One thing of note. In 1854 the Republican party was started at the grass roots level in an effort to abolish slavery. In 1860, the Republican party was in charge of the White House and Congress.

Im tired of the same ol same ol. I wouldnt mind seeing a real 3rd party alternative. One that doesnt have its collective head up each others asses, handing money over to each other.

[RainMaker]

One thing of note. In 1854 the Republican party was started at the grass roots level in an effort to abolish slavery. In 1860, the Republican party was in charge of the White House and Congress.

Im tired of the same ol same ol. I wouldnt mind seeing a real 3rd party alternative. One that doesnt have its collective head up each others asses, handing money over to each other.

I'd be down with that. Don't think the other 2 parties will let it happen though.

[Subby]

Hey whatever keeps the crazy people busy!

[Galaxy]

One thing of note. In 1854 the Republican party was started at the grass roots level in an effort to abolish slavery. In 1860, the Republican party was in charge of the White House and Congress.

Im tired of the same ol same ol. I wouldnt mind seeing a real 3rd party alternative. One that doesnt have its collective head up each others asses, handing money over to each other.

I think that's one of the problems today. The third parties seem to reach for the stars, instead of starting smaller and building up.

[lungs]

If they are so fed up, they should do more than stand their with their stupid signs and then complain that the liberal media doesn't cover them.

This ain't no tea party, it's a conservative circle jerk that the liberals popularized during the George W. Bush presidency.

[Karlifornia]

The tea party sounds like a good idea, but I'm kind of picky when it comes to tea flavors. I could go for a raspberry tea party, but the problem there is that not enough people like raspberry tea. I guess I could make it a lemon tea party, but the problem there is that the focus may shift entirely to the citrus, making it just a plain ol' Lemon Party.

[RedKingGold]

One thing of note. In 1854 the Republican party was started at the grass roots level in an effort to abolish slavery. In 1860, the Republican party was in charge of the White House and Congress.

Im tired of the same ol same ol. I wouldnt mind seeing a real 3rd party alternative. One that doesnt have its collective head up each others asses, handing money over to each other.

Let's leave wig out of this.

[Abe Sargent]

During American history, no viable third party has sprung up for the long term while there were two major parties. Whigs came around after the Era of Good Feelings ended. Republicans became a major play after the Whigs collapsed and there was a power vacuum.

Whenever a third party starts to gain ground, like the Populist party, one of the major parties realizes what is going on, and absorbs the issues at the front of the of that third party. So your agenda and platform make it to one of the major parties and you gain ground, but hte party is largely absorbed.

So, let's say the Libertarian party were to begin to threaten, we'd likely see either the Republicans or the Democrats move to absorb Libertarian principles and a few issues, and then tha would be that. (15 years ago, it would have been the Repubs, today, it would be Dems.)

[sterlingice]

I think that's one of the problems today. The third parties seem to reach for the stars, instead of starting smaller and building up.

It's really hard to do anything as a third party with the funding rules as is. (Again, why I'm in favor of publicly funded elections)

SI

[lungs]

Or get rid of political parties altogether.

[JPhillips]

Wasn't this sort of thing treasonous last year?

Oh, well.

[RainMaker]

Libertarians are too fringe to be mainstream. The best shot at a 3rd party is a moderate one that focuses on reforming government. Probably one that is a little conservative fiscally while being a little liberal socially.

[RainMaker]

Wasn't this sort of thing treasonous last year?

Oh, well.

Totally different. If it's criticizing Democrats it's patriotic, criticizing Republicans is treason.

[SFL Cat]

Kool! Need to dig out my warpaint.

[NoMyths]

Grassroots. That's funny.

Weren't most of the people who go to these things railing about how anti-Iraq war protesters were un-American?

[chinaski]

about as grassroots as Fox news.

[Marc Vaughan]

Or get rid of political parties altogether.

I've always considered the idea of political parties to be very undemocratic.

It prevents people from voting on actual issues which affect them and instead choosing between two already decided stereotypes - which are often both very similar.

When in office the representatives generally vote along 'party lines' rather than stand up for their constituents on all issues - all of which are wrong imho.

This seems to be the case in the vast majority of (cough) democratic countries - England does have the concept if 'Independants' (ie. unaffiliated politicians) and a handful will make it into parliament each year; but there aren't a huge amount of them and while they serve as a warning to the major parties they never have much influence unfortunately.

PS - Still learning about the American political system, don't quite comprehend why its setup so certain states effectively have NO say at all in the election of a president at all (ie. by the time their votes come in everyones already left the building and its all over because a handful of big states with uber amounts of votes have already come in).

[JonInMiddleGA]

by the time their votes come in everyones already left the building and its all over because a handful of big states with uber amounts of votes have already come in).

Not to sound flip but ... they're called time zones, which act in combination with population centers.

[Butter]

The Constitution, for the most part, is being ignored by our current government and we intend on working together to correct the problem.

Which part of the Constitution is being ignored? The part that allows illegal surveillance on virtually all electronic communication? Or the part that gives the executive branch wild, expansive powers of which no one had ever dreamed? Or some other part?

[Subby]

The other thing that might work in tandem with this is an Internet petition!

[Passacaglia]

The other thing that might work in tandem with this is an Internet petition!

Now how the hell are you going to serve tea over the internet?!?

[Shkspr]

Now how the hell are you going to serve tea over the internet?!?


ping: Flasch

[JonInMiddleGA]

ping: Flasch

He said serve, not sell.

[albionmoonlight]

Peacful protests and petitions of the government for a redress of grievances for the win.

That something like this can happen and is happening and will continue to happen is that for which I fight.

Now, I don't really agree with these people on a pretty fundamental level--I think that their timing is suspicious, and I think that the government has tried to keep this recovery as market-based as possible.

But this kind of thing makes the Democracy nerd in me get all excited.

Beats blowing shit up whenever you get pissed off, that's for sure.

[kcchief19]

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[JPhillips]

Watching Beck go from B list radio host to leader of the local militia has been fascinating. I don't know whether he's unstable or a genius snake oil salesman.

[RainMaker]

The Constitution, for the most part, is being ignored by our current government and we intend on working together to correct the problem.

I hear this a lot with this movement. What exactly is being ignored here? I can't seem to find a detailed answer to this.

[RainMaker]

Watching Beck go from B list radio host to leader of the local militia has been fascinating. I don't know whether he's unstable or a genius snake oil salesman.

I think he's a smart entertainer. He knows what he's doing and he knows how to play to a particular audience. I think his statements on TV are batshit crazy, but I think he knows that too deep down inside. Still, batshit crazy gets you viewers and people to buy your books. Beck, like many other talking heads is a smart businessman.

[kcchief19]

A free market doesn't mean a free-for-all. It's always had rules and will always have rules. That's not what this is about.

This is simply a rejection of the idea that the government should assume even more responsibility, not just for the rules governing the market, but for governing the economy itself. Some supporters of the Tea Party would probably love to roll things back to 1789, but I think others would simply be satisfied with a serious counter-proposal of free market reforms.
A reasoned statement. But what would exactly do you mean by free market reforms?

My impression of most "free market" politicians is that there definition free market means free of regulation -- i.e., repealing things such as the Clean Water Act, eliminating the EPA, rolling back business taxes, reducing paperwork and so on and so forth.

There is no doubt that those instruments are far from perfect. But frequently the term "regulation" is bantered about as what the free market types want to get rid of. Yet the position we are in today is largely because of a lack of regulation or ignorance of regulation by the government. Had the government acted to stop the shenanigans going on at Bear Stearns, AIG, mortgage lenders and others, we wouldn't have had the credit crisis that was truly at the heart of the meltdown.

I'm asking because I want to know. What does a "free market" supporter REALLY want?

[JPhillips]

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[cartman]

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