2004 NFL Draft.....Now what is your team's grade?

[miami_fan]

National Football League: NFL Draft History Full Draft (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2004&round=round1)

Draft Day 2004.

Eli to the Chargers, and then the Giants. Was that trade the worst of the draft? Or was it the Browns? The Dolphins? The Bills? (Ya there were a lot of stupid trades that day weren't they?)

A Falcons fan was actually HAPPY to get DeAngelo Hall?

And the Lions were going to be playoff contender that year, 2005 at the latest.

With five years to reflect, time to really see how your team did. Did that first rounder turn out the way you wanted? Were you able to find a diamond in the rough in one of the later rounds?

BTW the comments were taken without any sort of context from this FOFC draft day thread. :cool:

Wow - How about the Manning boos? (and draft commentary) - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=24808&highlight=NFL+Draft)

[Danny]

Ugg.

02. Robert Gallery- He's developed into a good, possible eventual pro bowl guard, but was a bust as a tackle and not worthy of the number two pick.

45. Jake Grove- Never was healthy enough to reach a high level of performance, a wasted pick with him now in Miami.

67. Stu Schweigert- he sucks and is no longer with the team

99, 134, 166, 182, 245, 255. All complete busts who are no longer with the team

So overall I give them an F-

[Butter]

Bengals get a C or so. They hit on Robert Geathers and Landon Johnson in the later rounds, and Keiwan Ratliff still plays in the Dime (I think so, anyway).

But I don't think any of the rest of the players had much of an impact. Chris Perry was hurt, and failed in his attempt at being the starter. Stacy Andrews was another nice late-round pickup, but he's with the Eagles now. Matthias Askew never did much. Nobody else is even worth mentioning.

[Passacaglia]

I don't have to look to know what the Lions would score.

Reading the first page or two -- I'd forgotten the Giants gave up another 1st round pick for Eli.

[Matthean]

Let's see. The Lions only kept two of them and they were the 3rd and 5th rounders. Between the two, Alex Smith, the 5th rounder, is putting up more numbers, but that's hardly much of a challenge considering what Kevin Smith is doing.

And holy hell, looking at the drafts via team option reminded me that the Lions spent 4 number one picks in 5 years on WRs. For kicks and giggles I went back and started to look at some other years for the Lions. A good draft for the Lions is finding two credible players still on the team in the same draft. This despite having 7 picks by default every year. In 2003 the Lions had 11 picks. Three of those picks played last year in the NFL. None of them were playing for the Lions. Six years after a draft and you in reality have nothing to show for a draft that offered you 11 picks.

[Abe Sargent]

This was the 2nd year of the crappy James Harris era of player selection with crappy player after crappy player. Tom Coughlin hit on every 1st round pick except for one, and he was a late rounder. Marcus Stroud, John Henderson, Tony Boselli, Donovin Darius, Fernando Bryant, Fred Taylor, James Stewart, Kevin Hardy, Renaldo Wynn - the only miss was R. Jay Soward. That list includes 5 pro bowlers, a guy who was really close a few times to the pro bowl (Darius), a solid corner, a solid DT, and one of the best guys at his position ever (Boselli).

Then we entered the lousy James Harris era of Leftwich, Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis, Derrick harvey, and Reggie Nelson. In the 6 years that James Harris was the Jacksonville personnel guy, we drafted ONE pro bowler, 2nd round Reshean Mathis.

In addition to those 5 first round pro bowlers, Tom Coughlin also had pro bowler Tony Brackens, AFC Player of the Month Aaron Beasley, and many fixtures for the NFL like John Wade, Mike Logan, Seth Payne, Brad Meester, David Gararrd, Mike Pearson, Maurice Williams, Marlon McCree, and even Rob Johnson recouped value. Coughlin was a good personnel man, and a good example of a successful player/coach.

This was year two of the crappy Shack Harris era, and it was yucky.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Pats: B

<table style="width: 509px; height: 149px;" class="data-table1" summary="This table summarizes the NFL Draft History by team." border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="tbdy1"><td>1</td> <td>21</td> <td> Vince Wilfork (http://www.nfl.com/players/vincewilfork/profile?id=WIL059369) </td> <td>NT</td> <td>Miami (Fla.)</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>1</td> <td>32</td> <td> Benjamin Watson (http://www.nfl.com/players/benjaminwatson/profile?id=WAT311042) </td> <td>TE</td> <td>Georgia</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>2</td> <td>63</td> <td> Marquise Hill (http://www.nfl.com/players/marquisehill/profile?id=HIL531135) </td> <td>DE</td> <td>Louisiana State</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>3</td> <td>95</td> <td> Guss Scott (http://www.nfl.com/players/gussscott/profile?id=SCO327611) </td> <td>SAF</td> <td>Florida</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>4</td> <td>113</td> <td> Dexter Reid (http://www.nfl.com/players/dexterreid/profile?id=REI261412) </td> <td>SAF</td> <td>North Carolina</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>4</td> <td>128</td> <td> Cedric Cobbs (http://www.nfl.com/players/cedriccobbs/profile?id=COB744481) </td> <td>RB</td> <td>Arkansas</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>5</td> <td>164</td> <td> P.K. Sam (http://www.nfl.com/players/p.k.sam/profile?id=SAM003757) </td> <td>WR</td> <td>Florida State</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>7</td> <td>233</td> <td> Christian Morton (http://www.nfl.com/players/christianmorton/profile?id=MOR769635) </td> <td>CB</td> <td>Illinois</td></tr></tbody></table>
Home run with the first pick. Watson a disappointment, Hill gone too soon, and the rest are replacement level at best. But that first pick was a great one, so overall the draft can't really be seen as a disappointment.

[Racer]

44 (2nd round) - Bob Sanders, S - Definitely a steal although it seems like he's out half the time.
68 (3rd round) - Ben Hartsock, TE - 27 career receptions
69 (3rd round) - Gilbert Gardner, LB - hasn't had much of a career
107 (4th round) - Kendyll Pope, LB - out of the league
125 (4th round) - Jason David, CB - 61 career starts for the Colts and Saints but he seemed to get beat an awful lot when he was with the Colts. Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden have definitely been a lot better.
141 (5th round) - Jake Scott, G - Solid starter with the Colts and now Titans
173 (6th round) - Von Hutchings, CB - Apparently he's still in the league. Don't remember him at all so he must have not done anything with the Colts.
193 (6th round) - Jim Sorgi, QB - Gets along well with Peyton Manning and the Colts coaching staff and a capable backup.
229 (7th round) David Kimball, K - Penn State - never played in an NFL game

I'd probably give the Colts a B+.

[USFLTecmo]

1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee

Wells starts for us at center. Carroll was a bust, Thomas too, Washington even more of a bust, he never even played a game for us, Sander punted for us one year, and not a good one at that, and Williams started a few games for us, but now starts for the Browns. D would be about where I put that, since we do have one starter from it, but anything more is wishful thinking.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This was the 2nd year of the crappy James Harris era of player selection with crappy player after crappy player.

....

Then we entered the lousy James Harris era of Leftwich, Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, Marcedes Lewis, Derrick harvey, and Reggie Nelson.

....

In the 6 years that James Harris was the Jacksonville personnel guy, we drafted ONE pro bowler, 2nd round Reshean Mathis.

...

This was year two of the crappy Shack Harris era, and it was yucky.

And who is the Detroit Lions new senior personnel executive and assistant general manager?

Oh, that's right.

James "Shack" Harris!

[flere-imsaho]

Surprisingly non-sucky draft from the Bears:

1 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
2 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington
3 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State
4 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas
4 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland
5 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh
5 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State
7 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (Fla.)

Harris has turned out to be a correct pick at that draft position, and Tank was decent until character issues got him. Probably wish they'd kept Berrian now, and Vasher is an OK, I guess, high-risk high-reward CB.

They could have (and have, in the past) done far worse.

[flere-imsaho]

I thought Gallery would be a lot more solid than he turned out to be. What an incredible bust. I think in the end both the SD & NYG moves turned out to be good ones.

[Danny]

I thought Gallery would be a lot more solid than he turned out to be. What an incredible bust. I think in the end both the SD & NYG moves turned out to be good ones.

Yeah, he was actually a very good pick at the time as almost everyone had him a stud LT for 10 years and the safest pick in the draft.

[Thomkal]

Not a bad draft for my Cards. I guess Fitz can throw that diet vanilla coke can back at my face now, but I still contend that he was not what the Cards needed to draft back then. :) Every player they drafted got some playing time, with 2nd rounder Dansby looking like a steal right now and good contributions from Dockett and Smith.

[spleen1015]

I can't help but to think that Gallery would have been better had he been drafted by another team.

[Danny]

I can't help but to think that Gallery would have been better had he been drafted by another team.

With him, I don't think so. He simply does not have the arm length/technique to be an effective tackle in the league. That wouldn't have changed with another team. In general though, often times players would be better off on another team. Hopefully that's changing.

[JAG]

2004 - Dallas Cowboys
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 43 Julius Jones RB
2 52 Jacob Rogers T
3 83 Stephen Peterman G
4 121 Bruce Thornton CB
5 144 Sean Ryan TE
7 205 Nate Jones CB
7 216 Patrick Crayton WR
7 223 Jacques Reeves CB

Grade: D+

When you draft two serviceable NFL players in the 7th round, you're doing something right. When those are the two best players in the draft, you're doing something wrong. Dallas traded out of the first round for a 2005 first round pick (spent to select Marcus Spears, an average to slightly above average DE) and the 2nd round pick to take Julius Jones, who had a great first year and then mediocre years thereafter (although remained the starter in name). Jacob Rogers was injured most of his first season and was cut in season 2 or 3, never to return to the NFL (so far as I know). Peterman was cut in a couple seasons, but played a few seasons with the Lions. Thornton was cut soon after he was drafted and I think was out of the NFL. Ryan has bounced around a couple teams but was never more than an ok blocking TE. Nate Jones was a 3rd / 4th / 5th CB for a few seasons but never was worth much (sorry Rutgers fans). Reeves was an average CB for some years and was signed away by the Texans last season. Crayton remains the only player on the team and is the 2nd / 3rd WR and an average punt returner.

[Mustang]

Packers

1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee

Grade - F

What a colossal piece of shit draft. If you wanted to be nice, you could bump it to a D- just because of Wells and Williams, but just the absolute misses of Carroll, Thomas and drafting of BJ Sanders (and they traded UP to get him) makes this probably one of the worst Packer drafts that I can remember. (Even worse than 89 in my opinion)

[Logan]

Nate Jones was a 3rd / 4th / 5th CB for a few seasons but never was worth much (sorry Rutgers fans).

Son of a bitch! :) Seriously though, to become a nickelback and still be in the league five years later as a 7th rounder isn't bad at all. That Parcells brought him to Miami is a pretty positive reflection on him too. Had a couple business school classes with Nate...not only was he a real nice guy but he was very very smart.

[Swaggs]

2004 - Pittsburgh Steelers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio)
2 38 Ricardo Colclough CB Tusculum
3 75 Max Starks T Florida
5 145 Nathaniel Adibi DE Virginia Tech
6 177 Bo Lacy T Arkansas
6 194 Matt Kranchick TE Penn State
6 197 Drew Caylor C Stanford
7 212 Eric Taylor DT Memphis

Grade: B-

The Steelers obviously could not have done any better in the first round, getting one of the top 2 or 3 players in the draft at #11 overall. Colclough was a high risk/reward gamble out of a small school -- he was an average nickelback and return man for a few years, but he'd have to be considered a pretty big bust for the #38 overall. He is still in the league, but nothing more than a marginal roster-filler. Starks has been a solid starter, despite seemingly endless attempts to replace him, since his 2nd season; including two Super Bowl winning teams. Kranchick was the only other player to ever see the field for the Steelers and he was just a special teams/depth guy for 2 or 3 years.

All in all, one potential Hall of Famer and one guy that looks like he'll be a long-time starter in the NFL (given good health), but nothing much else. I guess if Starks and Colclough's draft positions were switched, it would seem a little better, but getting very little from the #38 and not a single usable late-round guy drop it to just above average for me.

[JAG]

Son of a bitch! :) Seriously though, to become a nickelback and still be in the league five years later as a 7th rounder isn't bad at all. That Parcells brought him to Miami is a pretty positive reflection on him too. Had a couple business school classes with Nate...not only was he a real nice guy but he was very very smart.

He was a good special teams player also to be fair. Just didn't have the ability to consistently hold down better than a #4 CB position.

[Abe Sargent]

I think some people here have unrealistic expectations for the draft.

[Tigercat]

Saints Overall Average: B-

1 18 Will Smith DE Ohio State B+
Solid need pick, one time pro bowler.

2 50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State B+
Inconsistent hands, but best deep threat in the NFL last few years.

2 60 Courtney Watson MLB Notre Dame D
Area of need, good talent, but still was a bust.

5 139 Rodney Leisle DT UCLA C+
Was a solid backup DT for a few years.

5 156 Mike Karney FB Arizona State A-
Starting FB up until this coming year, great replacement for Terrell Smith

7 240 Colby Bockwoldt C+
Was a sub-par player, but started a few games, not bad for a 7th rounder.

[Passacaglia]

I think some people here have unrealistic expectations for the draft.

Seriously. How can you get a B- while drafting Big Ben?

[spleen1015]

Seriously. How can you get a B- while drafting Big Ben?

I was thinking the same thing. He alone makes it an A IMO.

[Abe Sargent]

I know! And what do you want from your 7th rounders? One who is a reliable nickel or dimeback for 4-5 years is a lot of return for that pick.

[JAG]

I know! And what do you want from your 7th rounders? One who is a reliable nickel or dimeback for 4-5 years is a lot of return for that pick.

I gave Dallas' draft a D+ because they managed to get a couple average starters for a few seasons out of it, much less a single Pro Bowl season out of anyone they picked up, with only one guy still on the team five years later. That's a recipe to be at the bottom of the league if you continue at that pace. Getting a starting WR with a 7th round pick and a few average seasons from the other players kept it from being a complete debacle (read: F)

For the record, Nate Jones had more value than the average 7th round pick that gets cut, but by himself he wasn't going to make or break the draft grade. Not to pile on the guy, but he was reliable and valuable enough to be put on waivers in the middle of the season two years ago and zero teams put in a claim for him (although Dallas eventually resigned him after some roster shuffling).

[cthomer5000]

I also fail to see the logic in downgrading because a 7th round pick isn't on the team 5 years later.

If a guy is even on the roster for 2 years at that stage of the draft, that's a big win on that pick.

[stevew]

Grade: B-

The Steelers obviously could not have done any better in the first round, getting one of the top 2 or 3 players in the draft at #11 overall. Colclough was a high risk/reward gamble out of a small school -- he was an average nickelback and return man for a few years, but he'd have to be considered a pretty big bust for the #38 overall. He is still in the league, but nothing more than a marginal roster-filler. Starks has been a solid starter, despite seemingly endless attempts to replace him, since his 2nd season; including two Super Bowl winning teams. Kranchick was the only other player to ever see the field for the Steelers and he was just a special teams/depth guy for 2 or 3 years.

CcAll in all, one potential Hall of Famer and one guy that looks like he'll be a long-time starter in the NFL (given good health), but nothing much else. I guess if Starks and Colclough's draft positions were switched, it would seem a little better, but getting very little from the #38 and not a single usable late-round guy drop it to just above average for me.

If you factor in Parker and Washington as undrafteds its basically an A

[Big Fo]

Miami Dolphins


Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Vernon Carey T Miami (Fla.)
4 102 Will Poole CB USC
5 160 Tony Bua LB Arkansas
6 174 Rex Hadnot G Houston
7 221 Tony Pape G Michigan
7 222 Derrick Pope LB Alabama


Decent starter, out of football, out of football, three-year starter on a bad line now in CLE, out of football, maybe out of football or at least didn't play in 2008.

Pretty bad. Oh, and we traded a second rounder for AJ Feeley.

[BigDPW]

Carolina Panthers

1 28 Chris Gamble CB Ohio State
2 62 Keary Colbert WR USC
3 94 Travelle Wharton G South Carolina
5 163 Drew Carter WR Ohio State
6 196 Sean Tufts LB Colorado
7 232 Michael Gaines TE Central Florida

D+

The only saving grace from this one is that at least Gamble is a pretty decent corner. Wharton is a career backup who can play when needed. The rest of these guys are no longer with the team as far as I know.

[Swaggs]

Seriously. How can you get a B- while drafting Big Ben?

I can see where you guys are coming from, but to totally blow it on pick #38 and to have "only" two players from a draft that was just held 5-years ago with not even another quality depth guy makes me feel like we could have done a little better.

I originally had it as a "B," but marked it down to a "B-" because we ended up taking another CB (Bryant McFadden, who was a great value at #2) the following year, which to me indicates that the stuff realized that they blew it with Colclough after one season. So, missing that badly on him affected the draft in the following year, as well, IMO.

[Swaggs]

BTW, looking at the past drafts, it makes me wonder what the hell happened to Kendrell Bell. He was the linebacker out of Georgia that the Steelers took in '01 that was nothing short of awesome in his first season (83 tackles and 9 sacks on a veteran defense). I'm guessing he got hammered by injuries, but I'm honestly not sure. He sure didn't last long.

[sabotai]

I am very happy I was wrong about the Giants trade. Well, maybe it was "too much", but considering how later we found out that Osi was a player SD was aiming to get, I'm happy with giving up too much in terms of draft picks since it meant keeping Osi.

Also, I've come to think that 1st round draft picks are pretty overvalued. If that trade happens now, I probably don't think of it as "too much".

[Abe Sargent]

This is the era of free agency. MOST of these players from 5 years ago SHOULD be gone, that's the system. If you have two solid backups still on your team, a decent starter and a good starter, that was a good draft 5 years ago.

You al;so have to weigh position and rounds. The Jaguars made a major reach at 1/9 for Reggie Williams and it failed. Grabbing a solid starter at 27 is fine.

[kcchief19]

<table class="data-table1" summary="This table summarizes the NFL Draft History by team." border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><thead><tr class="thd2"><td width="10%">Rd</td> <td width="10%">Sel #</td> <td width="30%">Player</td> <td width="25%">Position</td> <td width="25%">School</td> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>2</td> <td>36</td> <td> Junior Siavii (http://www.nfl.com/players/juniorsiavii/profile?id=SIA755334) </td> <td>DT</td> <td>Oregon</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>2</td> <td>61</td> <td> Kris Wilson (http://www.nfl.com/players/kriswilson/profile?id=WIL741016) </td> <td>TE</td> <td>Pittsburgh</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>3</td> <td>93</td> <td> Keyaron Fox (http://www.nfl.com/players/keyaronfox/profile?id=FOX222076) </td> <td>LB</td> <td>Georgia Tech</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>4</td> <td>105</td> <td> Samie Parker (http://www.nfl.com/players/samieparker/profile?id=PAR403230) </td> <td>WR</td> <td>Oregon</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>4</td> <td>126</td> <td> Jared Allen (http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredallen/profile?id=ALL454745) </td> <td>DE</td> <td>Idaho State</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>6</td> <td>195</td> <td> Jeris McIntyre (http://www.nfl.com/players/jerismcintyre/profile?id=MCI672714) </td> <td>WR</td> <td>Auburn</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>7</td> <td>231</td> <td> Kevin Sampson (http://www.nfl.com/players/kevinsampson/profile?id=SAM402513) </td> <td>T</td> <td>Syracuse</td></tr></tbody></table>
Well, Jared Allen was an out-and-out steal in the fourth round, although at the time we were told the Chiefs drafted him because he was also a long snapper.

Otherwise, this draft is the reason Carl Peterson finally got run out of town. We traded our late first rounder to the Lions for the second and fourth, which equated to Kevin Jones for Junior Siavii and Samie Parker.

Keyaron Fox is pretty much the second-best player from this class. Parker only put up stats because the Vermeil offense was still there his first few years and we had nothing but hobos at WR. I think Siavii and Wilson are the only guys still in the league and they are barely in the league. McIntyre has already been spit out the bottom of the CFL. Sampson might have been a good pick if they managed to get him on the cement crew working on rebuilding the stadium.

If Allen were still on this team: D+
With Allen gone: F-

[stevew]

Keyaron Fox is a helluva special teamer. They did get a couple picks out of Allen, which i suppose mitigates that loss but doesn't factor in here.

[stevew]

BTW, looking at the past drafts, it makes me wonder what the hell happened to Kendrell Bell. He was the linebacker out of Georgia that the Steelers took in '01 that was nothing short of awesome in his first season (83 tackles and 9 sacks on a veteran defense). I'm guessing he got hammered by injuries, but I'm honestly not sure. He sure didn't last long.

He drowned in the whirlpool.

[JAG]

I think you're aiming too low for what you consider acceptable Abe. Teams are trying to build championship rosters. You don't do that without multiple Pro Bowl players or multi-year solid starters. I remember asking Rich Gosselin a few years ago (a guy who's made his own board every seasons for 15+ years based on compilations from NFL GM boards) what he would consider an acceptable draft. His answer was something along the lines of 1 Pro Bowl player, 2 starters, and 2 backups / special teams players. My first thought was that seemed like a lot to expect, but look at championship level teams and that's probably not far off the standard. When the Giants made the Super Bowl, their entire draft class provided some contribution to the effort.

Compare that with what Dallas got in 2004, zero Pro Bowl players, 2 starters, 2 backups. That's below average but not a complete debacle. I stand by the D+.

[MikeVic]

BTW, looking at the past drafts, it makes me wonder what the hell happened to Kendrell Bell. He was the linebacker out of Georgia that the Steelers took in '01 that was nothing short of awesome in his first season (83 tackles and 9 sacks on a veteran defense). I'm guessing he got hammered by injuries, but I'm honestly not sure. He sure didn't last long.

I have his McFarlane figure, and then he went to KC I think? And then I never heard of him again.

[Emiliano]

49ers

1 31 Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State
2 46 Justin Smiley G Alabama
2 58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh
3 77 Derrick Hamilton WR Clemson
4 104 Isaac Sopoaga DT Hawaii
4 127 Richard Seigler LB Oregon State
6 188 Andy Lee P Pittsburgh
6 198 Keith Lewis DB Oregon
7 217 Cody Pickett QB Washington
7 226 Christian Ferrara -- Syracuse

Couple of starters, a good punter. Not really stellar of course (the 1st pick sucked bad), not too bad either. C-, I'd say.

[Fidatelo]

I don't think it's fair to judge a draft by whether a player is still on the team. A myriad of factors can lead to a player leaving for another team. I'd just judge it based on how well the player turned out in the NFL, not just for the team that originally drafted him.

[Swaggs]

This is the era of free agency. MOST of these players from 5 years ago SHOULD be gone, that's the system. If you have two solid backups still on your team, a decent starter and a good starter, that was a good draft 5 years ago.

You al;so have to weigh position and rounds. The Jaguars made a major reach at 1/9 for Reggie Williams and it failed. Grabbing a solid starter at 27 is fine.

I agree that they should/could be gone if they are desirable to other teams. But, I don't think having only two players in the league after 5-years later is a good draft, even if one is Big Ben. If you have too many drafts that only net you 2-3 guys (after 5-years), you get heavily into free agency and you lose, IMO.

When looking at the Steelers recent history, I just don't see how you can give this class a grade much higher than I did, when the 2002 draft netted five starters (Simmons, Randle El, Hope, Foote, and Keisel are all still starters in the NFL) and two depth guys (Haynes and Mays) or the 2005 draft with 3 good starters (Miller, McFadden, and Kemoteau), a guy who is still a good reserve with the club (Essex), and 3 guys who are/were at least usable depth guys (Wallace, Nua, Herron).

Again, love the Roethlisberger and Starks picks, but totally whiffing on #38 and then not hitting on anything worth a bit (just one guy that played mop up in a handful of games) on 5 later picks is not an "A" draft in my opinion.

[stevew]

I'm pissed they've whiffed on any D-Line guys in the last 4-5 drafts at least. The day of reckoning is coming, you can't expect Smith/Hampton/Keisel to be effective much longer. I really want them to go DLine early in this draft.

[Matthean]

I think you're aiming too low for what you consider acceptable Abe. Teams are trying to build championship rosters. You don't do that without multiple Pro Bowl players or multi-year solid starters. I remember asking Rich Gosselin a few years ago (a guy who's made his own board every seasons for 15+ years based on compilations from NFL GM boards) what he would consider an acceptable draft. His answer was something along the lines of 1 Pro Bowl player, 2 starters, and 2 backups / special teams players. My first thought was that seemed like a lot to expect, but look at championship level teams and that's probably not far off the standard. When the Giants made the Super Bowl, their entire draft class provided some contribution to the effort.

Compare that with what Dallas got in 2004, zero Pro Bowl players, 2 starters, 2 backups. That's below average but not a complete debacle. I stand by the D+.

Yep. I would consider getting 3-4 quality guys a bare minimum and look at 5 being the more ideal. Run the idea of getting two guys out of the draft for 5 years and see how that works. You have 10 guys of around ok status and that's not even one side of the football field. The free agency pool isn't deep enough to fill in the holes if 2 guys are the standard and there aren't enough good undrafted rookies either. I know it's based on playing video games, but getting 4-5 guys to stick per year was my standard for any football game I've played. Hell, 10 years of five guys still leaves you getting 3 guys to fill out a team and that's assuming you keep your guys for 10 years.

[lordscarlet]

Redskins

1 5 Sean Taylor - Miami (FL)
3 81 (from New Orleans) Chris Cooley - Utah State
5 151 Mark Wilson - California
6 180 (from Chicago) - Jim Molinaro - Notre Dame

To start this draft is mostly a bust. 4 picks? I'm not sure what they got for the draft picks they gave up, but I'm sure it wasn't worth it.

Molinaro has played 15 NFL games. Wilson played 2 in 2004. Sean Taylor was one of the best safeties to play the game for the 4 years he played. As stated above, 4 years is a long time and he was a premiere safety. His life was cut short. Not because he was out at a club or doing something stupid. He was in his home, sleeping, when some stupid kids thought he was out of town and could steal his stuff. This makes it hard for me to rate the pick,b ut I can't help but give that one pick an A. Cooley has also been very solid for the Redskins, and is one of the faces of the team. Two picks, however, do not make a draft. I would say, at best, it's a C overall.

[ColtCrazy]

Well, the Colts didn't have a 1st in 2004. With our 2nd, we got Bob Sanders. not a bad pick at all. :)

After that, it's sketchy. Hartsock is a blocking TE that ending up with the Titans. Gilbert Gardner was a bust at LB. Kendyll Pope went even faster. Jason David had some production with us, but was exposed at New Orleans. Jake Scott, the 5th rounder, was a steal and it's still a shame we let him slip away in FA. We got the Sorgi in the 6th, Manning's clipboard holder.


Overall, probably a B-. No 1st rounder hurt. DPOY in Sanders is a huge plus, and some production players on the Super Bowl team.

[ColtCrazy]

Bengals get a C or so. They hit on Robert Geathers and Landon Johnson in the later rounds, and Keiwan Ratliff still plays in the Dime (I think so, anyway).

But I don't think any of the rest of the players had much of an impact. Chris Perry was hurt, and failed in his attempt at being the starter. Stacy Andrews was another nice late-round pickup, but he's with the Eagles now. Matthias Askew never did much. Nobody else is even worth mentioning.


Ratliff was playing nickel for us last year...pretty good player that came up with some key INTs (including the one that beat the Steelers)

[chinaski]

Seahawks had a great draft - all those guys minus the 7th round kicker are starters.

[Radii]

Carolina Panthers

1 28 Chris Gamble CB Ohio State
2 62 Keary Colbert WR USC
3 94 Travelle Wharton G South Carolina
5 163 Drew Carter WR Ohio State
6 196 Sean Tufts LB Colorado
7 232 Michael Gaines TE Central Florida

D+

The only saving grace from this one is that at least Gamble is a pretty decent corner. Wharton is a career backup who can play when needed. The rest of these guys are no longer with the team as far as I know.



Wharton has started every game he's ever played for Carolina, Gamble has been in the top 5 in the NFL in interceptions twice, had 90+ tackles last year, was near the top of the league in passes defended, was a return man for a few early season. Two 5 year starters seems a lot better than a D+ to me.

Colbert was a huge disappointment, Carter had such great speed but couldnt' seem to do much with it, I thought he had a good bit of potential.

I have no idea who the heck Sean Tufts is so yeah...

Gaines helped fill the void left by Wesley Walls and saw a lot more action than most 7th round picks.

More production out of Colbert would have been nice for sure but two full time starters 5 years later and productivity out of the 7th rounder seems to me to be a B type draft?

[Logan]

Well, the Colts didn't have a 1st in 2004. With our 2nd, we got Bob Sanders. not a bad pick at all. :)

While I hate to give DeTox credit, he deserves some props for his praise of Sanders in that commentary thread.

[Racer]

Well, the Colts didn't have a 1st in 2004. With our 2nd, we got Bob Sanders. not a bad pick at all. :)

After that, it's sketchy. Hartsock is a blocking TE that ending up with the Titans. Gilbert Gardner was a bust at LB. Kendyll Pope went even faster. Jason David had some production with us, but was exposed at New Orleans. Jake Scott, the 5th rounder, was a steal and it's still a shame we let him slip away in FA. We got the Sorgi in the 6th, Manning's clipboard holder.


Overall, probably a B-. No 1st rounder hurt. DPOY in Sanders is a huge plus, and some production players on the Super Bowl team.

I think we originally did, but traded back to get Bob Sanders and then traded back again at the end of the 2nd round.

[MrDNA]

Looking at the Browns draft makes me want to throw up in my mouth. At least we got some picks for Winslow. Well, we're two GMs past that draft now! Hooray?

[RedHawk00]

Seahawks had a great draft - all those guys minus the 7th round kicker are starters.

<table class="data-table1" summary="This table summarizes the NFL Draft History by team." width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><thead><tr class="thd1"><td colspan="5">2004 - Seattle Seahawks</td> </tr> <tr class="thd2"> <td width="10%">Rd</td> <td width="10%">Sel #</td> <td width="30%">Player</td> <td width="25%">Position</td> <td width="25%">School</td> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>1</td> <td>23</td> <td> Marcus Tubbs (http://www.nfl.com/players/marcustubbs/profile?id=TUB419791) </td> <td>DT</td> <td>Texas</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>2</td> <td>53</td> <td> Michael Boulware (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelboulware/profile?id=BOU338982) </td> <td>DB</td> <td>Florida State</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>3</td> <td>84</td> <td> Sean Locklear (http://www.nfl.com/players/seanlocklear/profile?id=LOC651714) </td> <td>G</td> <td>North Carolina State</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>4</td> <td>116</td> <td> Niko Koutouvides (http://www.nfl.com/players/nikokoutouvides/profile?id=KOU622937) </td> <td>LB</td> <td>Purdue</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>5</td> <td>157</td> <td> D.J. Hackett (http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.hackett/profile?id=HAC504279) </td> <td>WR</td> <td>Colorado</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1 alt"> <td>6</td> <td>189</td> <td> Craig Terrill (http://www.nfl.com/players/craigterrill/profile?id=TER445802) </td> <td>DT</td> <td>Purdue</td> </tr> <tr class="tbdy1"> <td>7</td> <td>224</td> <td> Donnie Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/donniejones/profile?id=JON237997) </td> <td>P</td> <td>Louisiana State</td></tr></tbody></table>
I am going to respectfully disagree. Tubbs has never lived up to any talent, I would say Terrill is a better DT than him. Boulware could not cover when it mattered and is no longer with the team, Locklear is a DUI/wife beating away from prison. Niko is good special teamer, Hackett I loved, but they let him go.

When I look at players still on the board that would have filled equivalent needs I just dont think we did well. I was begging for the Hawks to take Gamble, wanted to hit that OSU lighting in a bottle at CB again like Shawn Springs.

[chesapeake]

I'm inclined to agree more with RedHawk. This draft was bad at the top. Tubbs never played a full season with the Seahawks as a starter and is now looking for work. Boulware's conversion to safety ultimately failed. I don't even think he made it out of camp with the Vikings last season.

In the middle rounds, it got better. Locklear has been a decent starter and is probably a modest value in the 3rd round. Niko was a special teams star but not an NFL-caliber LB. Hackett showed a lot of promise, but injuries got him, too. He is also unsigned atm. Terrill was a great pick in the 6th round and has been a dependable 2nd team lineman.

Donnie Jones showed why you shouldn't draft a punter.

With the flops at the top, and only one current NFL starter and one backup out of the bunch, I don't know how they can grade better than a D+.

[Travis]

I'm not arguing the Seahawks getting a bad grade, but how about some respect for Tubbs here gents? He was an integral piece in helping get the Hawks to the big show but has basically lost his career due to knee injuries since. To say Terrill is a better DT, sure, maybe now, but when he wasn't hurt, the guy was a legit pro bowler in the making.

As for Locklear, give him a bit more credit too. Unless they really revamp their plans, the whole idea is for him to slide across when Walt retires to take over the LT spot. He's likely a better fit there than at RT (his pass pro is better than his run blocking) but has still done a pretty good job at RT in the mean time.

Boulware seemed to have a lot of talent and just never really adapted all that well to safety so yeah, that was a swing and a miss, Hackett has been pretty good when healthy and it's pretty hard to knock a team for trying to shore up their punting situation with a pick that late. Terrill was a decent find that late as a rotational DT.

Had Tubbs not had the injuries he did their grade for this draft would be huge. Even then, nabbing a long term answer at tackle, a pretty good special teamer (Koutouvides), a solid #2 type WR (when healthy) in Hackett and another long time contributor on the line in Terrill isn't all that awful.

[Sun Tzu]

Ugh...of the TEN players the 49ers drafted in 2004, I count 4 as still being on the team, and only 1 is a full time starter...and he is...

Punter - Andy Lee

The other three are...

DT Isaac Sopoaga
S Keith Lewis
CB Shawntae Spencer

Our first round draft pick (#31) WR Rashaun Woods played two years and retired due to injuries. He finished with a total of 7 career receptions.